Space Marines Codex Review: Warhammer 40k 10th Edition

[@curtcleancut]

I've been waiting for this video. Love your content please keep up the great work and amazing reviews!

[@Lemon.Lime.69z]

Adding Calgar to the combo of aggressors and biologis with fire discipline to give constant advance shoot and charge plus fall back and charge is amazing

[@MrDMSir]

Agree, but I prefer fire discipline on hellblasters.

[@guysolomon7904]

Kinda love the idea of using Stormravens in Firestorm with dreadnoughts embarked. Surprise redemptor shoot back could actually be devastating xD shoot the Stormraven, don't kill it, but then bear the might of a Dreadnought shooting back at full profile? And then your dread can move and charge next turn!

[@blackhorizon40k81]

Been really enjoying the channel, and seeing more and more of Michael really getting into the nitty gritty with Steve. Great show as always!

[@jamessouth243]

Great video guys, can’t wait to jump into the masterclass =)

[@chrisdee5032]

I remember back in 2nd edition when Space Marines were actually elite warriors!

[@NerdEagle90]

35:20 As a WH newbie, I don’t get this reference. What is bad about adding The Blade Driven Deep to the Terminators?

[@evanco5213]

Looking forward to watching this

[@jimmygott]

Ah man Vanguard Detachment I can see some absolute nonsense with which I'm all for. I already knew the -1 to hit and army having benefit of cover outside of 12" of enemies seems pretty strong already but the ability to bring something back into Deep Strike is filthy lol.

[@Sharksvsnids]

I'm planning on using uriel ventris tongive my 10 man hellblasters and lt deep strike, and there's the strat to remove them from the board as well so they can do it again ;)

[@LunarSniperWifle]

Something Im really excited about with Firestorm is using my Templars with it. Melta on our impulsor? Advancing, shooting a S10 multi melta, and the contents can jump out if wanted or stay in and shoot via firing deck too due to assault. Crusader squads seem a really good unit for it too, inbuilt reroll advance and charge, slap some pyreblasters in them (2 for 10 or 4 for 20), and theyre quickly getting in your face with bolt rifles, pyreblasters, and melee threat from the 5 attacks from the neophyte chainswords. Brutalis is also something im excited to use in this with its melta and melee threat.

[@ChopsTV]

Absolutely stoked for the Stormlance detachment for my wolves army. I made an absolutely absurd list with 3 bricks of 6 TWolf Cav, a Wolf Lord and a Battle Leader. I can't wait to run it, it's gonna be a gas

[@TheCommandPhase]

So many happy space wolf players out there having more options than their awful index detachment. Thunderwolves in the “White Scar” detachment look soooo good! Shame about the 1st company though… it was potentially the coolest detachment in the lead up to the codex release and my word did it not live up to the hype!

[@jimskaven5963]

Sorry, that 1st company detachment is just insulting. They take the more important part out of Oath, and then give you back one fifth of it. Yeah. No. This deserved criticism.

[@GaryP336]

Agreed. It was a bad call. Tbf you've probably got it about face. With production lead times this would of already been in print when the indexes dropped. But doing it so it looks like a Nerf is always gonna be a feels bad and should be criticised

[@dennis.the.drummer]

Somebody better call the whambulance

[@Johnnymarzo]

Iron storm: Guilliman 2x impulsor 2x5 desolation Techmarine with lethal aura = Firing deck 10 desolation marines, 2 vengors, lethals + sustains on 5s. Yay

[@Johnnymarzo]

Also the techmarines grant +1 hit to the indirect fire penalty disappears

[@mortenbrandtjensen6470]

Good stuff. The presentation is Ace.

[@VanguardTactics]

Much appreciated!

[@thecasualwargamer5195]

I played the Vanguard detachment with A Blade Driven Deep giving me infiltrating Aggressors who then walked through a friend's Tau army.

[@CBus-gf4id]

What I think is interesting about Anvil Siege force is that it severely increases the lethality of your bog standard intercessors and heavy intercessors. Their weapons have both heavy and assault, meaning against the toughest units they can still advance, shoot, and wound on 5’s. I think the play for this is to have your Ballistus dreads and Repulsors in your backline and have your intercessors run up the board.

[@Jimples]

How do you advance and remain stationary at the same time? Also they're still Intercessors lmao

[@CBus-gf4id]

Ngl, I misread the rules, lol. Didn't see you only got the +1 to wound if you remained stationary. @@Jimples

[@euanbeveridge5489]

Nice stuff, lads

[@johnmarshall3175]

Looking forward to modeling Eric Morkai in his terminator armour to lead a vanguard detachment and lead a unit of wolf guard with a wolf guard battle leader. It's themed and a bit naughty :) and the chance for having a "lone wolf" with the lone operative enhancement yipee

[@fosterweiss6773]

35:38 sadly puts the Deathwing back in deep strike 😔

[@tomyp9119]

As an Imperial Fist player, I find this Vanguard detachment pretty intriguing. I think this might be the one that I will lean to. Seems weird cause I thought I will be running the Anvil Siege detachment. Unless I am missing something here?

[@guysolomon7904]

Nah I see where you're coming from - even being fluffy, infiltrating a 10 man Heavy Intercessor unit on a midfield objective from the get go and just being a pain to shift from then on. Anvil Siege force has some very strong applications, but it's going to be tricky to play well in a competetive environment. For fluffy friendly games though? So good.

[@tomyp9119]

@@guysolomon7904that’s literally what I was thinking. Taking 10 heavy intercessors and you just drop them in the middle. I think that is pretty powerful. Gives you some instant placing instead of moving them in 3 turns to use the anvil buffs

[@shtffitness4147]

I'm doing it!

[@GaryP336]

Its crazy seeing how many people rave about the anvil Detachment in a game where you live and die in the movmemt phase, glad you gave it a more balanced approach, but i still think most people will find a big difference between on paper and in practise. Personaly vanguard is my jam.

[@peters6345]

Ok the screw up is this: they kept Gladius exactly the same but nerfed oath. Winrate wasn't amazing to begin with. 1st company is a joke of a detachment. I think ironhands style one might carry marines in competitive, maybe the salamanders one. I really love the variety, but I absolutely hate how little they changed in datasheets

[@isawaryokage]

4/7 usable detachments isn't has bad as I was expecting. Even though only 2 seem to be good enough to win tournaments.

[@ivansanchez1328]

2? Gladius for obvious, iron hands, salamanders and Vanguard with infiltrate dark hair angels are grear

[@peters6345]

@@ivansanchez1328 Gladius wasn't winning with oath at full power, not going to win since its unchanged but oath is reduced by half

[@xianpathfinder7]

What is the rule that gives deathwing terminators -1 dmg? Are they talking about deathwing knights, or have I been nerfing my terminators without knowing it?

[@JimH.]

You forgot to add "the brand new, already way out of date, 10th edition codex."

[@maxblade1155]

Yep,thats why i hate wh codex

[@piotrjeske4599]

Is there a legal way to run sniper scouts, speeders and regular bikes? Because that is 80% of my army, not counting characters.

[@Jeff-ne1lh]

I just feel like the nerf to OOM has gutted the competitive ability of SM...especially against Eldar, but hey what do I know the SoB are suppose to be garbage right now yet they just won the GT.

[@giannisstavropoulos8923]

for the fire disiplen i was thinking a 10 man infiltrator squad with a lutenent

[@thenoobdestroyer100]

I played against the firestorm with crons and it didn't feel very difficult at all they cannot shift durable units at all

[@PaintCelestine]

As a side note, you highlighted the uses of the rigid discipline incorrectly. You mentioned that you can charge and the use this strat to fall back and set up overwatch. But you cant use it on your fight phase, so you are locked in combat until the end of your opponents turn. You also didn't highlight the use of this strat to fall back into a good shooting position so on your turn, you dont need to move and have the heavy buff.

[@tim8215]

Why are deathwing terminators -1 damage?

[@RFischer]

I'm SO going to be 'That Guy'! 😁 Yes infiltrate on my Deathwing. AND....my hovering Dark Talon can still keep its -1 to be hit and get cover to boot! 2+/5++ ? Yes please!

[@andydownes853]

I think there is something wrong with my ears because all I can hear during the vanguard detachment part is that I should buy ten Deathwing Knights ;)

[@VanguardTactics]

No Andy No

[@andydownes853]

I actually ran this detachment with Deathwatch last night, Proteus kill team is very good with it. @VanguardTactics

[@VTS55]

Quickly grabs 10 DWK + Captain and infiltrates them...

[@VanguardTactics]

No no no

[@charlieluckdya4680]

can we talk about the double paywall with the warhamer app which demands a charge to build armies but when new codexs release they lock the datasheets saying to go buy the codex

[@Fpsdood]

play a different game then bitch, everything about it costs money you goon.

[@mrcaterpillow9926]

To be fair this was always the the thing. I just wish they kept Indexes part of the App.

[@isaiahcasey1678]

What about 5 DW knights infiltrating with 10 DW command termies following on foot?

[@peters6345]

People abuse it GW nerf it..

[@SLG493]

Not sure about that call on no centurians in the Vanguard detachment. Dev centurians in a 6 man you can pick up and move around with that +bs strat...

[@GaryP336]

Yea. 6 dev cents are the first thing that goes in to my vanguard. I've even debated ventris to make it a deep strike move each turn

[@VanguardTactics]

I don’t believe Ventris can join them, 6 Dev cents could have play using start reserve as they have the range,

[@chrishawkes-king6305]

He doesn't need to join them to Deep Strike, it just says to select one Infantry Unit @@VanguardTactics

[@tyhar7493]

@@chrishawkes-king6305 Yeah that why I have Ventris in my list to give my Calgar, Apothecary Aggressor unit deep strike.

[@GaryP336]

@@VanguardTactics ventris doesn't need to join anything to give out deepstrike... lol..

[@matheusgk55]

"don´t do it" sorry mate, my deathwing knigthts already infiltraded turn one last week

[@swabilius]

Very very strong = broken :P

[@codyott1982]

Gw: Let's see, which armies are op? Literally every metric: aeldari are still not balanced. If youre gonna nerf anyone, nerf them. Gw: seems like we need to nerf space Marines, they seem balanced. Aeldari is fine.

[@Giby86]

Oath was broken. Not in the sense that it was OP, rather that it made side arms and weak weapons absolutely reasonable and efficient against units that they would have no business in being good against. This is the edition where armour is supposed to mean something, and the reroll wounds of Oath of Moment pretty much contradicted and nullified that. This is a good change.

[@stupidfrog2205]

It's a good change for the game; but they just destroyed marines in the process. We were actually balanced as a faction as this will knock us waaaaay down

[@Giby86]

@@stupidfrog2205 It happens all the time in this game. This time there's actually a good reason for a change. And also, "destroyed" is a bit of an overreaction.

[@dinosuarman13]

Personally, it should have always been and changed to only reroling 1s on hit roll and 1s on wound roll if it had started out like that it would've been perfect

[@peters6345]

​@@Giby86this is a good change if they actually changed datasheets

[@azumaakazuma9305]

The pillow fisted approach to the Oath change is disappointing. If all of the KZbin guys approached the change with the appropriate chagrin and negative response, then they might pull back on it. But with everyone pandering to GW, the SM competitive community is taking a big ole nerf. Feels Bad man.

[@Giby86]

Oath had to go. Wounds reroll made weak weapons good against everything. That's objectively bad game design.

[@azumaakazuma9305]

@@Giby86 Should Aeldar lose their wound rerolls? Should twin linked not be a thing?

[@Giby86]

@@azumaakazuma9305 Twin linked is much more controllable. That's the whole point I was making. Oath gives full wounds reroll to EVERYTHING for free, which means that bolters have a reasonable shot at wounding knights. That's the part that shouldn't happen. Nothing wrong with, say, a Gladiator Lancer rerolling wound rolls, that's what you're paying for.

[@azumaakazuma9305]

@Giby86 I am not denying oath is bad game design, what I am saying and arguing is that the lose of oath will be an over all nerf to competitive SM. The codex is not replacing enough killing power or scoring power for oath to be lost and the faction to not take a hit. Every divergent chapter index is objectively taking a hit. Yes they can take the new stuff and will it be close enough, yes. But it's still a feels bad for every SM player that was doing great right now. The codex should be a huge win not a meh.

[@peters6345]

Definitely feels bad, I'm not a huge fan of the rule. But I'd argue we didn't get enough in return for ditching it

[@rikhansen4574]

Literally everything you said about the Stormlance Detachment was rubbish.

[@VanguardTactics]

Can I ask, what made you write that comment?

[@rikhansen4574]

​@@VanguardTacticsdo you watch your videos before you put them out for errors??

[@caboose955]

The 1st company and storm lance detachments are unplayable I think. For different reasons mind you but nearly unplayable. Oath change is unnecessary and the points decreases are really annoying

[@GaryP336]

Storm lance is ok in space wolfs tbf

[@Pyriel2]

Will be interesting to see if CSM get their army rule nerfed as well. Wanna bet that pissdar wont get their magic autowin dice nerfed? God forbid if GWs perpetual 67% cheat army wont be broken the entire 10th edition. Last "balance" run custodes got dropped like a rock but guess what happened with the top darling army? LOL As for SM codex, the detachments are strange, some pretty good but extremely play-style controlling and some utterly useless. 1st company detachment? Whats the point? Balance is all over the book. Poor white scars, based on the absolute worst joke of a unit in the entire game, outriders. How are outriders ok? They had 4 bolter shots in 9th and were utter crap, now they have 2 shots and you must bring a chaplain everywhere to even do something.

[@Fpsdood]

oat got nerfed because every whiner who doesnt even play 40k and just watches auspex tactics called for nerfs.

[@GaryP336]

The fact that the book went to print before 10th even came out makes that statement a load of boo hockey.

[@peters6345]

​@@GaryP336which means they assumed it would be broken. Nerfed it, but didn't provide enough to offset it, almost no datasheet changes

[@GaryP336]

@@peters6345 noooo.... it means they made the index after and BUFFED it......temporarily.. probably for sales knowing gw lol

[@peters6345]

@@GaryP336 not sure about that. They "buffed it" but the marine winrate wasn't even that amazing. I would see like you'd say eldar index boosted sales XD but marine one..

[@GaryP336]

@@peters6345 wut... there was no win rate.... they buffed it blind for the indexes knowing full well that the codex (already printed) was in its now current form. Both versions of oath went to print independently with absolutely no community games played. Ergo they've have not consciously nerfed it. They've done random gw things