Variable Geometry in Sci-Fi Spaceship Design

[@Imperialguard82]

I can't believe in all those mentions of moving ships parts there is no mention of Battlestar Galactica and its retracting flight pods.

[@chezmix528]

Literally came here to say this. Also can't forget the Cylon Basestar going into atmosphere mode.

[@Belligerent_Herald]

And they aren’t just for show, pulling the pods in is absolutely used to build narrative tension in the show. Kind of wish deadlock had used it as a mechanic for the Jupiter class. Launch vipers, pull the pods in to close up the armor and start tossing shells at the toasters. The trade off being with the pods closed your vipers have nowhere to retreat.

[@onthefence928]

@@Belligerent_Herald even in teh show i think the pods were only ever retracted for jumps

[@hoojiwana]

Me neither and I wrote the video lmao - hoojiwana from Spacedock

[@Amarok410]

or the stargate puddle jumper

[@MegaKnight2012]

4:55 "Stupid, terrible, gorgeous movie", is a spot on description for Jupiter Ascending. The ships are staggeringly beautiful. The Wachowskis have made some amazing visuals. If they just removed the dialogue, they'd be all the better.

[@SuperFailzocker]

The Expanses also uses variable geometry in a scene in season 4, where you can see the UN One unfolding its wings after flying out of the hangar of a larger ship to bring Avasarala to the surface of Mars.

[@TheVeritas1]

Good one.

[@TheElegantMachine]

In the Forerunner Trilogy novels, they describe the tech that allows them to keep all those separated parts working / moving together as "constraint fields". When I read that, it made me think of the various Constraint tools you can use in 3D modeling sotware like AutoCAD, which lets you determine where features on an object or drawing are in relation to other features. For instance, you can set the distance between two parallel lines or two surfaces to a certain value, and as long as that constraint is applied, they will always remain that distance from each other, no more, no less, even if there are no other parts connecting them and if they never touch one another. By the same token, if you manually increase or decrease the value of the distance by which those parts are separated, then you can make them "float" further apart or closer together.

[@DarthBiomech]

Just make your ships four-dimensional. The floaty parts connected to the main hull through the fourth dimension.

[@jeremiahsmith7924]

Really bro? You just went on a huge rant about constraints on drawings in Autocad because the same word was used in a book? You know that's what the word means, right? So it reminded you of the only other application of the word you know of, so what?

[@jamesthomas1213]

I liked Jupiter Ascending cause it felt like I was seeing the inside of someone's imagination! It doesnt make it a good movie but it did make it interesting to me. I wish we used this amazing visual technology to show what crazy things exist in people's imaginations rather then infrastructure destruction in New York.

[@davismulvey2815]

I loved the movie. It is bad but I love it.

[@Mark-in8ju]

So basically... the producers were high on weed?

[@thealvatar6181]

I feel the exact same way about John Carter of Mars. It was not a critical success but I loved the world and technology

[@Robobagpiper]

My wife & I both loved Jupiter Ascending. It was delightfully goofy, but oddly enough our favorite part was the most grounded - the scenes with the Galactic probate bureaucracy.

[@thesleepingpower]

I specifically remember disliking the variable geometry dogfight/chase scene because the inconsistent profiles (and the night lighting) made it impossible for me to follow, like if every character in a scene was played by a different actor after each cut.

[@ilkoderez601]

And the part were her brother tries to sell her eggs online is the only part of the movie that I didn't like, that's just weird....

[@DrakeAurum]

In the Battletech videogame released in 2018, the hero ship has three large pods toward the rear that serve as living areas. In flight these are folded flush with the hull so that occupants experience thrust gravity. Upon reaching a destination they fold out perpendicular to the ship's axis, and it then spins up to rotate around its axis and generate spin gravity within the pods.

[@seb24789]

The Argo is such a beauty.

[@DoremiFasolatido1979]

@@seb24789 Normally, that kind of variability of configuration is a terrible idea. The maintenance and such is just not worth it. But in the case of a ship like the Argo, so long as the components are sufficiently "overbuilt" so that they can take more wear and strain than would otherwise be normal...it's not a bad idea. It's still not a great idea...but at least it's not horrendously stupid. Having such a large mobile base of operations is obviously useful, and having its own pseudogravity would also be pretty handy. Especially for extreme duration missions deep in undeveloped (or even completely uncharted) space.

[@dirus3142]

@@seb24789 The Argo should have been a scout/hunter class Jump ship.

[@KMCA779]

The reason I love it on Argo is that it has gravity while under thrust too so when they fold back it keeps them working as gravity decks. Aside from during transition it has a place to go to keep your body from atrophying... it's so damn cool

[@DIEGhostfish]

​@dirus3142 Oh no, anything with that much tonnage, realapace thrust, and an actual jumpdrive (and given its layout it would have to be a COMPACT KF drive would get Comstarred so fast your head would spin.

[@CaptainBill22]

One thing that I didn't hear mentioned is the fact that the warp nacelles and saucer's ability to separate would make a lot of practical sense for Star Trek. Being able to disconnect major chunks of the ship would allow for the repair and upgrade of the vessel relatively quickly.

[@NXTangl]

There's also a measure of increased safety. By separating the warp nacelles (known to explode sometimes) from the main saucer (where most of the crew and civilian staff live), you get a possible emergency procedure. Andalite dome ships in *Animorphs* can detach the entire dome (a huge artificial gravity park needed to keep racially claustrophobic elf-centaurs from going space-crazy and let them graze naturally) from the rest of the ship as a giant escape pod if combat goes south, and the dome is explicitly where any non-combatants are meant to go during combat.

[@Adoffka]

Riftborn ships are like this because riftborn themselves are sentient disconnected geometric shapes from other dimension, it's natural to them.

[@GmodPlusWoW]

When I played my first run of Endless Space 2, I played as Riftborn.

[@Practitioner_of_Diogenes]

Iirc, in the lore for the Riftborn, the ships aren't just ships, they're literally just very large Riftborn.

[@7aro7Dragoon]

Well they can "sentient disconnected geometric shape" themselves right outta this dimension that you very much.

[@Adoffka]

@@7aro7Dragoon well, not exactly, they can't just go back. They can fold space-time, but they are just a bunch of guys that went through a one way rift to colonize Hell, aka our dimension, because it is overtaking theirs. Later down the line you can take the people you left behind to here, or leave them to die there.

[@Fantastic_Mr_Fox]

​@@GmodPlusWoWI played my second run as riftborn and I've now played a few other factions but they're still my favourite

[@collins3D]

You missed the first ship in Star Trek with this. The Klingon Bird of prey, whose wings fold for landing, flight and later attack. Shown before the Enterprise D sauser separation.

[@beeffilledshark1714]

I love clicking on a Spacedock video and praying they mention any morsel of Gundam and not relegate it to background visuals and man did I have my hopes up with that Argama thumbnail

[@SargeRho]

So there ARE people out there who like Jupiter Ascending! There's dozens of us. Dozens!

[@Supallcomm]

Probably tens of them. Let's go with tens.

[@SargeRho]

@@Supallcomm Tens sounds more honest, indeed

[@DrBunnyMedicinal]

Well, dozens works, if we are willing to settle for just a few, I'm sure.

[@ch4mp10n6]

I feel so validated now lol

[@darthhunter69]

yes!

[@aurance]

One neat conjecture I saw about floaty parts is, they may not just be held together by energy, but could actually be connected physically/mechanically but in 4th or higher dimensions.

[@Ax_x1om]

That's cool actually

[@Novenae_CCG]

In that case, I would love to see certain parts themselves change shape and size, as we see different 3-dimensional slices of this 4-dimensional object. Heck, the entire structure could seemingly 'teleport' from one place to another, as it really just leaps through the 4th dimension (like a person's feet "teleporting" across a large area within the reference frame of ants living on a flat world, even though said person is simply walking.) If we continue to use 3-dimensional slices, the ship would first shrink down to nothing in one place, then appear and grow from nothing in another.

[@mirochlebovec6586]

Man this reminded me of how the bulding of the sophons is described in the 3 body problem book.

[@captshetz]

That's actually the lore behind the Riftborn ships in Endless Space 2!

[@cleeiii357]

Thats basically how the Riftborn ships in Endless Space 2 work tbh.

[@stevedenis8292]

Klingon Bird of prey variable wings , The Galactica with it's retractable flight pods.

[@TheVeritas1]

Great picks.

[@chrisortega7521]

I think the only time we see the Bird of Prey with variable wing geometry was in Star Trek The Voyage Home with its 3 different wing settings.

[@stevedenis8292]

@@chrisortega7521 Now that you mention it after watching next gen for the lost track of how many times last year I will have to check it out.

[@matthewkeeling886]

@@chrisortega7521 Read somewhere that the model broke not long afterward and was never repaired. If that is accurate it was not feasible to do onscreen through its later pre-CGI appearances.

[@Swooper86]

I couldn't believe he missed the Bird of Prey, such an iconic example of this. I would put it just below the X-Wing in terms of this trope, really.

[@weirdstuff_tm8942]

the funniest thing about the argama class, which is pictured in the thumbnail, is that from what i know it's the only ship in all of uc gundam that does centrufugical gravity. All the rest just persist in zero g inside

[@danishsyed1068]

It's upgrade has it too same with Jupiteris class too

[@Bleachsoul13]

Nah, most Fed capital ships have an internal centrifuge. Even White Base had one. The Argama was unusual in that the centrifuge was external.

[@Plaprad]

A lot of ships had it in the Gundam franchise. The Archangel from SEED, the Ptolemy from 00, probably a few more I forgot...

[@Robocopnik]

Nope, lots of them do.

[@sonwig5186]

White base has a ring inside and it is actually visible in the show where you can see the curve when they are in the coridoor connecting the bedrooms. I don't know how that works in gravity though...

[@Jovian999]

Of all the digs at Mass Effect Andromeda I can think of, the geometry of Architects is something I never thought I'd see picked on.

[@janejvmmsvictoria5857]

That's a new one to the complaints book

[@Lahiss]

Remnant in general was made of floaty bits.

[@TheArchaos]

Pro: Cool folding geometry. Con: OHGOD THE MAINTENANCE COSTS!

[@jasonreed1631]

The same things are said between engineers and technicians. Engineers will point to these types of features and tell you "but it's so cool and high-tech, it's the way of the future! Why *wouldn't* you want it?", the technician responds "those wings are going to cost an extra 400 man hours of maintenance per plane per month, and all of our mechanics will need to be placed on suicide watch."

[@Plaprad]

As someone who spent their adult life in aircraft maintenance, I feel this. I'm always looking at how much of a PITA things in sci fi look to maintain.

[@sebsunda]

Only for the ships & tech... The rest was... Meh...

[@sleep_deprived_stormworker]

another con: too many and it will fall apart like a lego set as soon as it takes a single shot in the wrong place.

[@iwiffitthitotonacc4673]

Isn't the whole subtext about how technology has made the maintenance aspect less of an issue? That's what I see anyway - technology making things that used to be hard to do, easy to do. Like, if they have "floating bits" tech, surely they also have tech that scans the thing and floats oil particles through tiny cracks to lubricate and then fix anything that needs fixing.

[@macavitythemysterycat]

A good use of variable geometry in space vessels is to spread out radiators to deal with excess heat while stationary and then fold them back in behind a forward micrometeorite shield for flight!

[@Mark-in8ju]

Correct. Variable geometry should have a specific clear purpose that directly corresponds to combat effectiveness.

[@TheThingInMySink]

I have this in my setting, also making a starsector mod based on it it, but I'm not proficient enough with code to make them pop out, was thinking of a flux related ship system that would stand in for the actual in setting cooling abilities, could do the animation just fine, but the rest? Maybe some day, for now I decided to just have them in the deployed position on all the sprites that do have them.

[@SpaceWraith131]

Don't forget about the Normandy and Tempest, the engine nacells would move and adjust both for thrust vectoring as well as FTL travel.

[@TheVeritas1]

The Normandy does appear in the video. I agree that the Tempest is a good pick for the topic.

[@avi8aviate]

Thrust vectoring is my favorite form of variable geometry.

[@kingssman2]

The DUNE Ornithopter is another neat variable geometry craft. Uses the folding and flapping of wings as primary mode of flight, and like a bird or insect, use them to glide, dive, and hover mid air.

[@cjfedler327]

Another one I'd like to mention in the Realistic category is the Hail Mary from Project hail Mary. The ship splits in half to become a Centrifuge when needed, but it can retract back into a flight mode at will. They use the feature multiple times throughout the story, even using it during an uncontrolled spin to lessen the force of gravity by expanding the radius

[@FearlessSon]

I'm going to second the Hail Mary here. What also interests me about the variable geometry on it is that in the spirit of "need to be small to launch but big for gravity" is that it's an entirely flexible system using a series of unspooling cables that connect the two rotating sections (one section that houses the engines and fuel and the other that houses the crew support systems.) That way it can expand to become very long without requiring a lot of complex mechanics or substantial additional mass.

[@Mighty_Spoon]

I really loved the book, I hope it gets a decent adaptation one day

[@cjfedler327]

@@Mighty_Spoon There is a movie being made as we speak. I believe they've already cast Ryan Gosling as Doctor Ryland Grace. Lots of speculation on the casting of Stratt

[@asdfjoe123]

It seems this channel largely ignores literature. Likewise most of the audience. It's shameful how far down I had to scroll to find this, the only comment, that isn't about a tv show or movie.

[@deanlawson6880]

Great video! I also really LOVE the variable geometry moving parts also. I consider myself VERY fortunate to have been in the Navy and stationed on a carrier (USS Forrestal CV-59) that had 2 squadrons of F-14 during my first "Cruise". They are awesome fighter craft and ruled the skies! Great video - Thanks for this!

[@iloveminecraft137]

Another spacecraft with variable Geometry is the prototype Cosmo Python from Space Battleship Yamato 2205. Another maybe less noticed feature is the Yamato's deployable wings for atmospheric flight. Same goes for a number of ships from gundam. A more recent example would be the Spartan from Gundam Thunderbolt deploying it's wings for atmospheric flight after atmospheric entry.

[@FGMagala]

I'm amazed. The Argama was both in the thumbnail and the outtro, yet wasn't mentioned, or similar features even acknowledged. Really, showing it on the single deployment section when the centrifugal pods retract to protect them in combat is exactly the sort of thing that this channel would be hyped about, since it's a practical and realistic feature that weirdly doesn't show up in sci-fi aside from one or two times.

[@cliffcorson4000]

You could use the SDF-1/Macross as a variable ship as it has several modes and doesn't constitute as a "mech" itself

[@Judgewrath1]

I was going to come and say this, then I remembered that it literally punches enemy ships, so it's kind of more mecha than, say, a ship with variable parts. It probably falls safely under the "transforming robot" trope.

[@wolfdeltanine]

@@Judgewrath1 Was going to also state the SDF-1, but based on your logic, yeah. Especial it's predecessors the Macross Quarter (Frontier) which the captain literally surfs to the planet surface in the end battle (no joke) and the Elesyium (Delta) which pulls some crazy almost gundam style moves. Think only the Macross Cannon (Marcoss II) can qualify as it does a minor shift and has to open it's four huge guns (which are actually old Zentrandi battleships) to fire.

[@Octarinewolf]

The Vf-1s ought to count as well then since their fighter mode is a swing wing design.

[@Judgewrath1]

@@Octarinewolf you are technically correct. The best kind of correct.

[@Sephiroth144]

It literally transforms into a giant mech holding a cannon

[@ThommyofThenn]

4:57 adorable reference to the legendary "absurdly tiny planet with physically impossible rings surrounding it" thing from VOY.

[@Rasc0117]

Nice to see Chorus get a spotlight. While it wasn't a perfect game, it has it's fun and amazing moments.

[@Mark-in8ju]

Chorus is definitely a hidden gem of a game with the most fun flight gameplay I have had yet. I have all the achievements on Steam!

[@achillesa5894]

I really love that design from The Sojourn, thrust gravity and spin gravity are both underused in sci-fi and combining them both in one design is just so neat

[@TheVeritas1]

Agreed. The Tripathia Class is one of my favorite ship classes in The Sojourn for that reason.

[@weiwenng8096]

IRL, straight wings are more efficient at low speed, but they're unstable at supersonic speed. Swept wings are more efficient there. Moreover, the mechanism to sweep the wings adds weight and complexity. Various technological advances mean that variable sweep wings are no longer the optimum design for military aircraft. So ... in space, you don't have aerodynamic considerations, so it's basically just the rule of cool.

[@griffinfaulkner3514]

It's not that straight wings are unstable at high speed, they just generate significantly more drag for the same total wing area, especially once supersonic shockwaves start getting involved. Even a comparatively gentle sweep (see the F/A-18 Hornet and Super Hornet) can have a surprisingly large reduction in aerodynamic drag. You're correct on why variable geometry was abandoned, though. Pretty much every single swing-wing aircraft was a maintenance nightmare, and modern digital fly-by-wire gives even legacy airframes like the F-15 startling amounts of maneuverability, even at extremely low speeds. A less commonly talked about downside of VG wings is stealth; the joint is effectively impossible to completely smooth over, and the wing itself can only have an optimal RCS in one position.

[@QuantumAscension1]

The evolution of the concept could be for an aerospacecraft that is designed to alter it's profile in atmosphere and exo-atmosphere, as well as orbital descent and ascent. An example that comes to mind is the Jackal from Call of Duty Infinite Warfare

[@aurtosebaelheim5942]

@@griffinfaulkner3514 Stealth is an important factor considering that it's arguably the primary defensive measure of modern aircraft. High speed performance is much less relevant when that speed isn't what's keeping you alive, likewise for low-speed maneuverability. When your plane isn't expected to out-turn missiles in dogfights or outrun SAMs, the flight characteristics of the airframe don't matter nearly as much so a bit more drag at high speed or a wider turning circle at low speed are acceptable.

[@griffinfaulkner3514]

@@aurtosebaelheim5942 That's the point I was making, but when talking about the downsides of swing wings it's almost never mentioned. Stealth is arguably more responsible for the death of swing wings than maintenance costs, considering how expensive RAM coatings are to maintain.

[@gregoryfolsom7882]

Starfury Thunderbolts were a stellar upgrade to an already stellar ship design, wings for atmospheric flight that folded in during spaceflight (with what appeared to be minimal mechanicals) to make the maneuvering more responsive by consolidating the center of gravity.

[@Skyfire-x]

MEGAMAID! Thank you for including Spaceballs among the legends of Sci Fi :)

[@marcosdheleno]

SUCK! SUCK! SUCK!

[@Phootaba]

I almost spit my drink out when Stratenblitz was in the spotligth! Haha!

[@ashishrajan6815]

A supercool vid about variable geometry in sci-fi spaceships? :Hoo yea! Vid doesn't mention Macross and/or robotech: "Bold strategy,Cotton!Let's see how this plays out!"

[@SoullessOO1]

Those are mecha. Yes even Macross-1.

[@CantankerousDave]

@@SoullessOO1 The YF-21 in Macross Plus was both a transformer *and* had variable wing geometry, so maybe that one kinda counts?

[@mappies123]

@@CantankerousDave Vf-1, Yf-19, Vf-25 have swing wings, and technically even the YF-30 and VF-31 have variable wings too but they fold downwards so honestly they should count too

[@WillowEpp]

​@@SoullessOO1 SDF-1 has variable geometry outside of the big surprise transformation too.

[@Blockio1999]

One thing I really appreciate about this channel is that every single clip on screen is directly sourced to a searchable origin

[@GoranXII]

The Earth Force ships in _Babylon 5_ use centrifugal sections. And Kosh's ship was some kind of nanotech shape-changing hull.

[@TheRogueX]

I SUPPORT YOU with your Jupiter Ascending appreciation! Also: Technically speaking the SDF Macross from Macross/Robotech was variable geometry because humans.

[@MarijnRoorda]

That picture of KSP @ 7:48... It is hilarious. It sounds and looks exactly like some one would do, cause they can!

[@Tuning3434]

Stratzenblitz75 is one of the OG players that would ruin his rig by doing the KSP thing to perform an actual mission. Danny2462 does the things you wouldn't think off, cause of shit'n'gigles.

[@TheOneandOnlyDuck]

Not to mention... - Battlestar Galactica's moving flight pods. - Jet's Hammerhead ship from Cowboy Bebop with its rotating engines, extendable nose scoop and pivoting harpoon arm.

[@martinhennigan1113]

The Argama and the Defiant are my favorite Sci-Fi ships

[@Gaarafan007]

I honestly really love variable geometry in sci-fi. The X-Wing was, of course, my introduction to it, but I love the Normandy and the Turian ships from Mass Effect and loved the ship descriptions in the Halo Forerunner Trilogy of books. I quite enjoyed seeing them in Halo Wars, 4, and 5. I haven't actually played Infinity yet despite getting it shortly after it released, so I can't comment there, but VG has been a part of Forerunner tech since Combat Evolved and the Sentinels. Gundam has some good VG as well, though it varies by series. The Forbidden, Freedom, and Justice Gundams along with the Dinn from SEED have VG as part of the Mobile Suit's maneuverability or weapons while the Aerial, Calibarn, and Schwarzette Gundams from Witch From Mercury used VG weapons.

[@TheKeyser94]

I absolute love Chorus, you pass from fighting religious zealots to fight Lovecraftian monsters from the void, and the game is really, really, really hard, they even changed the final battle in the final update because how hard it was, is still hard, but at least now is more fair, never the less, it take me five hours to defeat the final boss of the game.

[@Mark-in8ju]

Chorus is definitely a hidden gem of a game with the most fun flight gameplay I have had yet. I have all the achievements on Steam!

[@TheKeyser94]

@@Mark-in8ju Really? What I like to this game that encourage you to fight aggressively, more aggressive you are, more it reward you, and your choices really make the difference in this game, more people you help, more backup you have in the final battle, and you really would need them because the last battle is HARD.

[@Narutonarutonaruto85]

Given the thumbnail, I was disappointed you didn't talk more about anime examples.

[@zerogrey3798]

Yeah was a bit miffed about not getting my SDF-1 fix.

[@silluete]

Yeah no love for macross.

[@BFjordsman]

Reason I skiped the video and started looking at the comments.

[@speedstriker]

This channel really likes to bait and switch with Gundam.

[@L.J.Kommer]

Most of the smaller ships in my setting have some form of variable geometry, mostly swing-wings for atmospheric flight. Lots of thrust vectoring in their main torches and RCS thrusters, too. A lot of them have VTOL or STOVL capabilities too, since anti-grav isn't available.

[@realitypoet]

Nice! It’s heartening to hear appreciation for variable geometry ships. I’m writing a hard(ish) science fiction space opera right now and the main hero ship has variable geometry in order to provide centrifugal geometry during the cruise phase. For acceleration/maneuvering it reels in the counterweight/service module, and the sensors/radiators retract so it becomes aerodynamic for atmospheric flight.

[@blackfire3744]

There's a non-cannon starfleet ship from the game:, "Star Trek invasion" where the hero ship, a Typhon-class, can switch to what's called "siege-mode" where it compacts from its carrier mode to a more traditional style design, so to speak.

[@jameswoods8843]

An example from Sonic Adventure is the Egg Carrier, and its cruising and battle modes. particularly memorable because navigating the ship changes based on what mode its in

[@darkphoenix06660]

Wow wasn't expecting to hear an Endless Space mention today but thanks for that. Love those games.

[@phoboskittym8500]

Valkyries for the win, the ultimate in variable fighter technology.

[@stcredzero]

You missed one of the grandest conceptions of spaceships with disconnected floaty parts: The Culture series by Iain M. Banks. The big General Purpose ships had disconnected parts, and their effective "volume" was mostly outside of their main hull and composed of what amounted to "forcefields."

[@Quazgar_of_the_North]

Hah, I was just going to comment about this very thing. In the later books, the military ships were made up of components that split apart and coordinated.

[@Quazgar_of_the_North]

and by "military" I mean of course Special Circumstances lol

[@Fayheurblode]

On one hand, yay for the Argama being showcased, as one of the oldest hero ship from Gundam, but on the other hand, having its own variable geometry only mentioned for the centrifugal blocs and then only for a few seconds only, while it’s there for protection in other parts of the ship… where it is full utilitarian, contrary to some others, like Ptolemy 2’s front wings for example

[@jgraygaming225]

The Slave 1 from the original trilogy wasn't shown to have a rotating cockpit (as far as i know). However, when the ship was shown in Attack of the Clones, the cockpit was shown to rotate from landing to flight mode and even adjusted while in flight!

[@NexeL_NKC]

The ‘detachable floating geometry’ stuff is HEAVILY featured in anti gravity racing games! Wipeout probably has it, but the one game I have a lot of experience with that very heavily uses features like that is RedOut. Most ships are maglev operated, run on massive, extremely powerful engines, and can separate parts of themselves to increase handling on the track. They’re kept in place with powerful electromagnetic fields and can even expand and contract with speed changes. The slower you go the more they contract, the faster you go the more the geometry separates. It’s most apparent in the Lunare Scuderia and ESA racing ships. And, as a fun side note, there’s an entire brand of racing vessels that are literally podracers from Star Wars.

[@admiralcasperr]

7:45 Jeb Kermin says: "more rocket more better!"

[@kongilian]

Saw the Jupiter Ascending bit and showed my wife. You now have a new fan. She loves that movie.

[@dakaodo]

I love your main point about the narrative need in visual fiction for visually interesting STUFF, or movement to create tension. This is something that exploded across all visual entertainment as CGI got cheaper. It takes time, labor, resources to build physical props. And they're limited by the properties of the materials used. I think of everything from Peter Jackson's Hobbit to Michael Bay's Transformers as huge splurges on overstimulating visual movement and action. CGI? No limits except for the need to be relatable to the audience. That's why we get the real-world influence from familiar ideas: then-current military tech trends, WW 2 in space tropes, biomimetic designs, etc. Something from the latest cutting edge research or engineering at any point in time IRL will not have had sufficient time to seep into the public consciousness through media images and descriptions. Heck, 40 years after their introduction, bullpup rifles still look exotic to a lot of people. As for variable geometry itself, it's the usual boring question I always love to hammer home: is the juice worth the squeeze? It takes more energy, resources, cost, complexity, skill, etc to use. So your technology base and military budget and supply chain have to be up to the task. In the 70s, we were smart enough to come up with the concept of variable geometry aircraft, but it turned out to be expensive to manufacture, operate, and maintain disproportionately versus the marginal utility we got out of it. Potentially, with 50 years' additional advancement and reduction in costs for materials science, computing power and automation for both design and operation, etc we have a lower bar for accessing variable geometry designs. On a very small scale, there are various research projects into biomimetic flying drones and robots that emulate birds, bats, and insects -- many of these use MUCH more complex and active variable geometry elements than the F-14 or the 3 or 4 swing-wing bombers still in operation. At the same time though, the world's biggest military budget has not seen fit to revisit variable geometry designs. Likely because there still isn't a strong enough case that can be made for needing the specific and unique capabilities of variable geometry flight, at the cost necessary to design, manufacture, and sustain it. Which is kind of saying a lot, for a military that's willing to throw half a billion dollars at a single bomber. :D For now, low-observable features > AA > swing-wing speed. Moving parts always come at some cost or trade-off. Opening the weapon bays on an F-35 temporarily reduces its stealthy signature. The F-14 couldn't mount additional weapon pylons on its wings. The Tornado had pylons that counter-rotated to offset the wing orientation changes, at the cost of even more mechanical complexity, weight, and potential points of failure (e.g. any kind of shock or flight stress that might jam a warped pylon or disconnect a control mechanism, throwing off flight performance or rendering the aircraft unable to deploy that part of its payload). A transforming system would need to derive some huge fight-winning benefit that outweighs these costs and trade-offs, meaningfully exceeding the capabilities and/or reducing the sustainment burden of operating 2+ simpler separate platforms that each do half of the combo deal's jobs.

[@Alexander-tu3iv]

I got your back space dock I loved Jupiter Ascending as well. It captured the shear epicness and melodrama of the space opera genre perfectly.

[@michaelmann7816]

For your consideration, the Arwing from Starfox. It's never made particularly clear what difference it makes, (unless I remember wrong) but presumably All Range Mode (ie full (well, minus 90⁰ from the ground, anyway...) control) sacrifices some speed for higher maneuverability.

[@adriansue8955]

Trimaxian Ship remember watching "The Flight of The Navigator" as a kid? with the ship changing shape for high speed mode it even did the mentioned disconnected parts thing, with the boarding stairs floating midair

[@darrenrichardson6146]

Oh gods that's such a deep cut and a great shout out to a classic!

[@IamTinyJoe]

Love these Videos. Helped me really flush out my ship and science designs for my story.

[@Tcgaming67]

Does anyone remember the old cartoon "Starcom"? It had spaceships with variable geometry. The Starmax bombers had flip up wings for storage, and the Starwolf micro fighters could fold into cubes to hide away inside the back of the Starmax. So cool.

[@samkirk79]

One of my favorite examples was the Argo from the most recent Battletech game. It had 3 living pods that would swing out and rotate to provide gravity while in orbit, and swing back in line with the ship to use thrust gravity while in transit.

[@05Matz]

I went to the comments to look for this as soon as I saw the topic, because I'd have to mention it if somebody didn't do so already. Beautiful design. I think the engine section slowly counter-rotates when the pods are rotating, as well?

[@samkirk79]

@@05Matz I can't remember but I think you are correct.

[@TheSpearkan]

An interesting case of floating parts or, as I like to call it, Raymanning from a developers perspective is in the antigrav racing game Redout 2 where all the ships have Rayman parts attached to them, most particularly in the stabiliser fins and auxilliary thrusters. In addition to being a cool visual feature as each part jostles as the ship is constantly maneuvering in high speed turns and jumps, but it allows the devs to use the same in-game model for many parts while not compromising the overall aesthetic of it, you can customise these ships with many different components and it adds its own look without looking wrong!

[@ultramarinus2478]

Actually, was imagining a spaceship made mostly out of small segments (say Sg1 replicators), able to connect in different smaller designs (like dogfighters or the prowling crabby shape of basic replicator. THAT design would incredibly fit into SG setting, especially SGU setting, where the crew is in distance and location unreachable by means other than stargate, wich is a roundish ring with zirca 3 meter of inner diameter. Not to mention, that such spaceship/army of small robots/fleet of starfighters, could be incredible handy for resource mining, repairs of Destiny and re-stocking of expeditions non-edible suplies, and vastly expanding Destinys fighter/drone compliment (for having some replenishable redshirt starfighters on the ship can help. Not mentioning adding the expedition crew a second FTL capable and steerable spaceship. That should give the ship unparaleled ability in eluding anti-ship torpedoes and most of one-shot, one-kill anti ship weapons. Not to mention unparaleled transportability and modularity (and repairability if enough new segments are aviable or can be produced on site).

[@marcop1563]

You know, as a lifelong fan of Ace Combat, I never noticed that bit about super planes having variable geometry wings and even better super planes ditching them.

[@addisonchow9798]

The mecha aesthetic hits hard.

[@scottfw7169]

😁 There at 7:51, very happy to see the Pilgrim Observer model kit designed by G. Harry Stine and marketed by MPC. Also, Stine was one of the founders of the model rocketry hobby here in the US.

[@DmitriVanderbilt]

Prometheus isn't silly, it's the coolest ship the Federation ever made

[@SuperStevieye]

I had an idea about useful variable geometry in my setting a while ago. The radiators on my hero ship are situated on rails and feature movable shells and covers that allow the ship to control and minimise its infrared signature in whichever direction needed. I'll probably never finish it, but i liked the thought of moving around huge radiators a lot.

[@robinporter8481]

Not sure if you take suggestions, but, I'd like your take on "nanites" and drones. In my sci-fi, the main character has nanites in her blood that can do multiple thing from heal, to make a very temporary repulsion field/ Her ship also has small "spider/crab" drones that scurry about that function very similar to the nanites. Both can also reproduce and feed the MC perform functions if she is KOed for some reason. There is a lot more to it, but, would be curious what your opinions are.

[@icyknightmare4592]

I've probably mentioned this series a thousand times, but the Kris Longknife book series does this really well. They have ships made of programmable smart matter (basically nanites), that can change shape to fit different roles or combat conditions, shift armor or weapons around, repair damage, or even mimic the profile of known enemy ships. There are even times when severely damaged ships are repurposed into smaller ships with their remaining good components. Also, while not spacecraft, the Seraphim race from Supreme Commander go really hard into floating geometry and asymmetric design in their land, sea, and air units.

[@jackielinde7568]

I'm surprised you didn't cover the main ship from Robotech/Macross. They used variable geometry for more than just the mechs in the show. The main ship housed a superweapon that required the ship to be transformed to use it. (Why the ship couldn't be built and operated in the gun deployed position is beyond me. They also intended for Earth fleets to be able to dock to the capital ship for things like hyperspace transport. We never really got to see it because the enemy make sure it never happened.

[@andrewsuryali8540]

They actually give two reasons why the ships couldn't be built with the gun deployed in supplementary material from the 1980s in Japan. The first one is technical. The tuning fork gun needs to open up into space because the energy from the charge would rip it apart if enclosed. They can't just keep it deployed because then it would be easy to damage the gun. The second is because even the Zentraedi realize that some of their own are potentially mutinous crazy idiots who might shoot up their allies for fun, so they make sure their most dangerous ships can't fire their most dangerous guns willy-nilly without the fleet commanders approval. Yes, Zentraedi gunship captains couldn't open their main guns without a release code from their fleet commanders. Ultimately, this failsafe didn't exactly work because the crazies could end up getting promoted to fleet commander themselves (like the case with Quamzin Kravashera).

[@seamusburnside7765]

The ship was never meant to reconfigure to fire the gun. It does it the 'normal' way at least once near the beginning of the series. Problem is, the ship was a wreck rebuilt by humans, badly. Then they tried to use the space fold engine in a gravity well. It 'worked', but the FTL engine disappeared, and took many of the ships power conduits with it. Including the ones that led to the big gun. The entire point of reconfiguring the ship was a desperation ploy to move the power core close enough to the big gun so it could be powered again.

[@WillFredward7167]

Your description of Jupiter ascending is basically perfect

[@rahjar]

Excluding mecha to keep away from veritech mode/battletech lams means you have to do an episode on those now hehe

[@MasterGeekMX]

A gret use of the "otherworldy" feeling that floaty bits give is on the Service Weapon in the game Control. It is literally a paranormal gun that draws it's power from the astral plane, and depending on how those floaty bits arrange, it acts as a handgun, a shotgun, submachine gun, sniper rifle, rocket launcher or grenade launcher.

[@crisisOstrich]

Would love to see a video about Starcraft II Terran Viking

[@HeyLookICanDraw2]

There was a big smile on my face seeing the Argama class on here

[@Cadmus_of_the_Knight_Seekers]

The Liberator from Starcraft also transforms when it goes into bombardment mode and goes from firing missiles to its massive plasma cannon.

[@marcosdheleno]

i feel like he missed alot of ships from games. no mention of R-type or einhander for example. even though the einhander is named after its massive(for its size) arm that can swing around

[@Martel_Clips]

the combat mode where the bridge of the ships get inside to bunker up in gundam IBO is very neat

[@NightBeWheat]

I still think the Ace Combat X02 Wyvern has my favorite folding wing design.

[@ez_theta_z9317]

really not realistic but yeah it is so cool. a plane from a game of the same genre is the SP-34R in Project Wingman, it's very variable-geometry. thrust-vectoring engines, retracting canards and wingtips, tailfins that fold into the main wings at supersonic flight

[@spartantraveler7251]

​@@ez_theta_z9317 I'm not sure the SP-34R actually has those features. It's the DAKKA plane right? The one with the canister pods, railgun, explosive rounds and machine guns that shoot like a beam?

[@ez_theta_z9317]

@@spartantraveler7251 it is indeed the brrt-plane, and does indeed have a lot of variable-geometry

[@NightBeWheat]

@@ez_theta_z9317 Yeah, i play Project Wingman and i love the SP34R. the PW. Mk1 might be op, but it will never match the fun factor of the Spear.

[@ez_theta_z9317]

@@NightBeWheat do mission 11 on mercenary difficulty with the Double Time and Gun Runner modifications. another level of fun

[@ryuspitfire5611]

YES!!!!!!!! I FINALLY FOUND SOMEONE WHO AGREES!! "Jupiter Ascended" is a really fun movie! my favourite design in it actually is one of those ships that utilizes "Variable Geometry" or detached parts (it's the one which looks like it has wings that is shown is this video around the 5:30 minute mark)

[@Adoffka]

You forgot hiding and deploying large radiators in space combat in Terra Invicta.

[@QuantumAscension1]

Something that comes to mind on the function-over-form perspective would be to alter a spacecraft's center of gravity, likely for some benefit in maneuverability / course-correct. Not sure how practical that would be over direct propulsion like RCS thrusters, but depending on the tech-level and "hardness" of the sci-fi, it could be a method to conserve fuel / propellant, altering mass distribution to create stronger lever points where thrust is being generated. Also Variable Geometry could play a role in stealth design. F-22's, B-2's, etc. have to carry ordnance internally to minimize their radar signature until their ready for weapons release. The same logic could be applied to a spacecraft.

[@shalesderby]

Not spaceships, but definitely sci-fi. Ornithopters in the original Dune book (only the recent films have got anywhere close to representing them on screen) were very much shown as variable geometry aircraft.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

not as sci-fi as you think (although still sci-fi as far as manned). bird inspired ornithopters are very much a thing at drone scale. and bird inspired variable geometry for tradtional planes is also being explored.

[@jsnotlout3312]

This channel is how I am able to keep any of my sci fi stories in a somewhat grounded universe

[@peterknutsen3070]

3:55 I’ve heard that the ability to split the saucer section away from the Enterprise was an idea from the TOS era, but that they dropped it because it was absurd given their low budget.

[@andrewsuryali8540]

Not really. There was a TOS episode where the Enterprise went back in time to Earth of the 1960s and Gene wanted to use the already flying-saucer-y shape of the Enterprise, er, saucer, to do UFO-type stuff. So they came up with saucer separation FOR THAT ONE EPISODE. The idea was to separate the saucer and land it on Earth like a '60s UFO. Then they realized that this would completely mess up the rationale behind shuttles and the transporter, because why use them and send only small teams when you can literally land most of the starship and just... walk out of it? So they scrapped the idea.

[@jonathan_60503]

Another real world variable geometry design that wasn't mentioned, but might make a cool asymmetric inspiration for some space ship, is NASA's experimental AD-1 oblique wing. The wing pivots (kind of like the Osprey's does for storage) in mid-flight, going from a low speed straight wing to an angled one for higher speeds -- except because it is a continuous wing that pivots, it's forward swept on one side of the plane and swept rearward on the other!

[@GarfieldofBorg]

It should be noted that some mechs (including robots from "Transformers", and zords from "Power Rangers" have variable geometry modes that are unrelated to their transformational capabilities.

[@Gigas0101]

Would it be right to count adjustable verniers like the flight packs on Talgeese or the Zephyranthes full-burnern from Gundam? Or should we stick to transforming machines like the Zeta and the Wing Gundams?

[@eh9618]

​@@Gigas0101 I'd probably use the Gundam X and f91 as an example.

[@boxhead6177]

Also Gundam Witch from Mercury, all the bits change forms from armored plates to shields, energy weapons.

[@matteste]

​@@Gigas0101 I think the Xi and Penelope count with their altered flight modes.

[@MjolnirFeaw]

Loved the way the Argo moved its habitation pods so that psuedo gravity provided by thrust when on the move matched centrifugal forces when the ship was in orbit. It was was a smart little detail.

[@bigsarge2085]

I like "Jupiter Accending."

[@passpass4785]

I love the art and ships in Jupiter ascending so much

[@trekkie1701c]

It's subtle, but there's still a bit of variable geometry on real life aircraft - flaps and slats. You change the geometry of the wing to trade between lift and drag; a smaller wing for less drag, larger wing for more lift. This allows a wing that both provides enough lift at lower speeds for take off/landing while also allowing a more fuel efficient wing to decrease costs and increase range.

[@Tank50us]

"I will _NEVER_ complain about the DMV ever again!" You're not the only one that liked that film

[@weaselwolf]

Not covering Macross was a miss. I know they said no mechs or transformers, but the actual SHIPS in macross do a lot of the things mentioned than that's not even counting transformations. The moving domes on the colony city ships, the fact that the overpowered main gun on the big transforming ships became an entirely separate vessel, to the 'Sion' class ships of Delta being essentially miniature fleets into themselves as they're composed of several independent ships. Plus the original macross actually has a reason for transforming (connecting the main guns to power after the space fold engine...folded itself out of the ship) Plus most of the fighter scale transforming mechs also use variable geometry even within their otherwise static fighter modes, with swing wings and thrust vectoring being more or less standard and even morphic wings and body panels making an appearance

[@Sephiroth144]

You could make some argument for the Valks (specifically in Fighter Mode); but the Macross capital ships are giant mechs- they've literally punched other ships to death. (Though the clamshells would would, if minimally...) Not sure what "Sion" ships you're talking about; do you mean the holoprojectors that Delta Squad can pop off?

[@BeardoPNW]

Jupiter Ascending is as close as we'll ever get to a space opera movie and it was fun as heck.

[@Mark-in8ju]

Give the CGI artists a raise, fire the writers.

[@Camooses]

I would like to shout out the Tactical Destroyers from Eve Online. Of the 4 of them, the Caldari Jackdaw is one of my favorites with the Minmatar Svipul a close second.

[@janbfiala]

One aspect that informs moving parts (or could, in more realistic settings) is where you want your dropship's thrust vector to point. In space and high atmo, you want to move forward with the pointy bit forward, but when landing, that would make you an unstable tailsitter. So many dropships feature rotating nacelles or something else, like Slave One style. You could of course have separate landing engines on tops of your main ones but that's a bit boring.

[@Iaml3j0]

YES! Jupiter Ascending is glorious bonkers! Taken for what it is it’s a silly, fun, beautiful ride.

[@sammywhite5127]

The mandalorian actually isn't anywhere near the first time we've seen the slave one's rotating cockpit the first appearance of it I can think of was from the original incredible cross sections book in 1998, it may have appeared in something earlier than that but that's the earliest I am aware of

[@Kaiju-Driver]

Scymitar name drop! Nice! It's my favorite ship on all time! :)

[@toastergaming7783]

Pilots and designers: This is the coolest shit ever! Engineers and maintenance technicians: PLEASE END MY SUFFERING