Spain and the American Revolution

[@julianserrano9309]

Gold & silver brought to Spain was only 1/5 of the total amount mined in New Spain and Peru mines mainly. Rest, over 4/5 remained in america viceroyalties to settle new cities, built administrative buildings, churchs, hospitals, universities, roads, and in general infraestructure.

[@johnnotrealname8168]

The Spanish Empire was run on the cheap but was remarkably efficient despite that, including in matters of defence. The sentiment behind those figures, most of the money in the Empire remained in the Empire, Edit: "is accurate" with a surprisingly small percentage of the total going to the mainland.

[@CheerfulFerryBoat-ug8gr]

@@johnnotrealname8168 Thank God for Spain!

[@sweetmelon149]

During that war, the Spanish fought the Brittish in Uruguay/Argentina, Caribbean Area, Guatemala, Mediterranean Area, Bahamas and Europe. I wonder whether Americans are interested in updated history.

[@NortheastGeorgiaHistoryCenter]

Thanks! That's why we do these programs, to make folks more aware of the richness and diversity of our national history.

[@Sean-bz8ri]

For some Americans to acknowledge that the very same ethnicity of people they deem as "illegals" and "invaders" once shed blood and died fighting for American independence would be devastating to their white manifest destiny ego. Same reason why they don't acknowledge all the Mexicans such as the Tejanos and Californios who took up arms to fight Mexico for American annexation. Its easier for white Americans to play the narrative that they "conquered" and "colonized" America single handily due to "racial superiority".

[@gerardosanmartin]

Another important help was the naval battle of August 9, 1780, in which Spain captured a large british fleet carrying supplies to their forces in North America. It had a huge impact in England's financial structure so as on their efforts to win the war against the American colonies. Probably a good theme to talk about.

[@CheerfulFerryBoat-ug8gr]

Thank God for Spain! Spain paid for the Yorktown campaign paying both the French and Continental soldiers who hadn't been paid for several months and years causing several mutinees and also paid and refurbished Degrasse's French fleet allowing Degrasse to travel to both the Chesapeake and later Yorktown which Spain also had a huge role in the military planning which is why the Spanish Ambassador was invited to the Yorktown victory celebration in October of last year 2023! Spain protected French possessions in the Caribbean allowing Degrasse to travel freely to his destination! Spanish General Bernardo de Gálvez was kind and generous enough to release his own French troops under Spanish command and ALLOWED Degrasse to take them to go reinforce Rochambeau at Yorktown! Spain also sent muskets to Saratoga in coordination with the French! Sad that none of this is taught to American school students in the United States! Without Spain both France and the American Colonies could never have won the American Revolution!

[@pablobosch8194]

The spanish empire was about joining territories to the crown ( it was a roman like empire) , their inhabitants becoming thereby spanish “citizens” to whom any other spanish could be married just like any other spanish. The North American were about replacing the native population with their own. This extractive vision of the spanish empire is not only surprising from a supposedly historian but does no match with the construction of universities and hospitals for all the inhabitants already in the XVI century

[@johnnotrealname8168]

Hospitals is fair but universities were usually preserved for either Spaniards or in some cases Spaniards born there. However you are generally correct about the Spanish Empire as a stakeholder Empire and not a British style North America.

[@pablobosch8194]

@@johnnotrealname8168 I think we are mixing different periods. From what I know race was not such an issue at this time compared to social status, Castilla was still a feudal society after all and queen Isabel even “invited” spanish to marry local women/men. Concerning the indians it appears that in general if you belonged to the high society before the arrival of the Spanish you would keep your status. It was under Carlos II that restrictions based on “purity of blood” were introduced (1698) and without much success also.

[@johnnotrealname8168]

@@pablobosch8194 Carlos II had been dead for around four decades in 1698. You are correct that Spaniards marrying locals were fairly normal, even in the Philippines to a lesser extent. My point was about access to universities based on origin.

[@pablobosch8194]

@@johnnotrealname8168 According to wikipedia Carlos II died in 1700…

[@johnnotrealname8168]

@@pablobosch8194 Sorry, I was thinking of Carlos I. I am pretty sure Carlos II ended Indian slavery.

[@gerardosanmartin]

Also, French and Spanish plan to invade England, which by several reasons never happened, but forced a big chunk of the british fleet to be placed close to their coasts as a defensive measure. Also an interestin topic to look into.

[@gerardosanmartin]

And on the Yorktown battle, besides financing the battle, Spain agreed with France that the Spanish fleet would protect the French properties in the Caribbean against the British, so that the french could send their ships to Yorktown.

[@CheerfulFerryBoat-ug8gr]

@gerardosanmartin Yes. Also it was Spanish General Bernardo de Gálvez who was kind and generous enough to release his own French troops under Spanish command and ALLOWED Degrasse to take them to go reinforce Rochambeau at Yorktown which Spain also had a huge role in making Yorktown happen! Bernie didn't have to do that but he was very generous! In October of last year the Spanish Ambassador was invited to the Yorktown victory celebration! Spain is finally being recognized for its decisive role in the American Revolution and it's key participation in Yorktown! Spain also sent weapons to the American Colonies inside French ships from France! So when the ships arrived everyone assumed the entire cargo was only French lol! Huge mistake! Spain also sent muskets to Saratoga! Spain did so much to help us win American independence! Remember the American Revolution was a world global war and not just within the 13 Colonies! Over 100,000 Spanish soldiers and sailors fought against the British helping the United States! At least 17,500 Spanish soldiers fought in the Southern theater in Florida and the Caribbean! Spain also kept British forces busy at Gibraltar for four long years greatly relieving pressure on George Washington and the Continental army! Though Spain lost Gibraltar it was still a win for Washington! Thanks Spain!

[@gerardosanmartin]

The irony on this story. A big chunk of the money given by Spain came from the New Spain silver. An Spanish diplomat wrote to Carlos III that they where probably helping the birth of a giant, which would eventually swallow them. And he was right. At the end, Spain lost Cuba, Puerto Rico and the Phillipines to that baby, and would had lost Texas and all the other territories all the way to the Pacific Ocean, if they had still being part of their empire.

[@johnnotrealname8168]

Spanish Colonial Justice was actually very competent and the Mexicans largely accepted it, in the cities at least, and they remained loyal. It was efficient for what it had and importantly was very flexible in sentencing. People just disregard the Spanish as backwards but they did a lot good for the Indians certainly, banned slavery of them.

[@NortheastGeorgiaHistoryCenter]

They did ban slavery, but the living and working conditions of the indigenous workers were often terrible.

[@johnnotrealname8168]

@@NortheastGeorgiaHistoryCenter That is a good point. I remember reading a paper which stated that Spanish approach to Indian land was to assign what was determined to be their need and capable of proper use, unfortunately the practice was usually to assign the same amount of land without consideration to the number of people or the type of land and usually favoured to more affluent folk. However this was the same policy in Europe, in Britain too, like with Reducciones (Pooling people into cities.) which was a policy of the mainland.

[@castellanos6436]

@@NortheastGeorgiaHistoryCenter Well I can argue that the living conditions of Indigenous workers in the Spanish America was 10x times better than the average British worker during the Industrial revolution periods described by Friedrich Engels. The Indigenous worker was protected by Spanish Institutions since the very start, something which the Americans and British did not even considered doing until centuries later.

[@johnnotrealname8168]

@@castellanos6436 To be fair to you the protections offered to Indians because of their supposed subservient status was better than it not being there, as happened in the 19th Century. After a couple centuries I have read that various labour arrangements existed including wage labour in some areas since it was more profitable but that is not to write that it was great goings.

[@castellanos6436]

@@johnnotrealname8168 It's so funny you still insist that Natives were considered less than in the Spanish Americas. It may be true that the house of Bourbon brought some type of centralization in terms of political power to America which may have affected Native population socially or economically speaking but it so did to the Spanish population. Because the Laws of Indies clearly protected the Native Indians against any unfairness done to them as it did to the Spanish. The Spanish empire in the 18th century saw a lot of economically ups and downs and decadence which ultimately affected both Native Indian and Spanish population.

[@CheerfulFerryBoat-ug8gr]

Historian Thomas Chavez said Spain contributed more money to the American Revolution than any other nation involved! Chavez continues that a good percentage of the money France gave was actually laundered from Spain! Yet, historian Larrie Ferreiro claims that France was the money King lol! I seriously doubt that but even if it was true, it doesn't change the fact that it was Spain who paid for the Yorktown campaign and paid to refurbish Degrasse's French fleet allowing Degrasse to travel to both the Chesapeake and later Yorktown which Spain also had a huge role in making Yorktown happen! If France had all the money why then did they not help when French forces needed it? It was Spain to the rescue! The American Revolution was a world global war and not just within the 13 Colonies as we're so used to seeing it. Over 100,000 Spanish soldiers and sailors fought against the British helping the United States win their independence! At least 17,000 Spanish soldiers fought in the Southern theater in Florida and the Caribbean protecting French possessions allowing Degrasse to travel! Spain also sent the very first foreign weapons to the American Revolution in February 1775 to Marblehead Massachusetts! Spanish aid was there before Lexington and Concord before the Declaration of Independence and before America's so called first and oldest ally France!

[@TheGaztela]

A ver si nos tratáis mejor, a los españoles digo. Nosotros tenemos el mismo mérito o incluso más que UK. Al final me parece que el viejo enfrentamiento Inglaterra vs España se perpetúa con EEUU

[@javierlav]

Spain built more universities , hospitals and infrastructures than any other colonial power. Where are there more colonial buildings and infrastructures in the States in the South of USA or in the North?

[@tef_newalbionpacificmedia]

“…the fate of the colonies interests us very much, and we shall do for them everything that circumstances permit.” ~The Count of Floridablanca, March, 1777

[@angelaguerrero3808]

Around 90% of american equipment and logistics was spanish and french, without them there was no hope for americans

[@CheerfulFerryBoat-ug8gr]

@angelaguerrero3808 True but sadly everyone believes it was only France lol! Spain sent weapons and cannons and supplies to the American Colonies inside French ships from France! So when the ships arrived everyone assumed the entire cargo was only French lol! Spain also sent muskets to Saratoga in 1777!

[@siryort7024]

Bummer, you missed the opportunity to talk about the battle of Spanish owned St Louis and of American owned Cahokia. The British contracted a 1,000 man Indian force in Prarie de Chein Wisconsin to attack a 20-man garrison in St Louis. The Spanish leader gets wind of it and transports troops from St Genevieve and builds a tower and 2,000 yards of trenches. Outnumbered around 3 (composed of soldiers, militia, slaves and freed blacks) and to one vs the 750 Indians that show up, they manage to drive them away and keep St Louis in Spanish hands. Mean while when informed General Montgomery sends George Rogers Clark with troops and local militia and allies from Cas casian tribes to fend off the 250 Indian attackers in the Cahokia area. That very well could have been a part of Canada today. It definitely would have reshaped the Treaty of Paris talks!

[@elmaje9119]

there is nothing to celebrate... It was the biggest geopolitical mistake made by Spain. A bad example was given to the viceroyalties and captain generals of Spanish America and the United States began to put pressure on the Spanish borders to gain territories at the expense of the Hispanics. The Natchez District, Louisiana, The Floridas, Texas, New Mexico, Alta California, the Nootka territory, Guam, Philippines, Marianas, Carolines, Palau, Puerto Rico and Cuba, etc. were all from New Spain.