Spark testing steel - basic blacksmithing

[@bayoutrapper]

Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge. It is greatly appreciated, as I am a retired welder trying to start learning to blacksmith. I learn a lot from your videos. Thank you and God bless.

[@ther3almr.cheesy600]

You, my good sir, are a damn life saver. I'm a beginner smith, and I had no clue how to test steel. Thank you!

[@bennyhill3642]

Thank Mr John We all need to start somewhere😇

[@Thecando]

This is one of the best spark testing videos I’ve seen on KZbin. Thank you!

[@BlackBearForge]

Glad you liked it!

[@insperatus]

You did the spark test video! I can't be the only one to think of it but when John was soliciting ideas for videos this was one of mine. Thank you!

[@Luis-eu2ow]

This is the best spark test video I have seen so far. I love your videos. Keep growing. Keep being awesome!

[@daved8858]

Thanks again John.

[@workwithnature]

This series is going to be great. Was interesting to see the color differences and spark pattern. Thanks. Oh By the way cheers for the heads up on the boric acid.

[@winterknightwarden8543]

Wonderful idea. Something that we all need more knowledge of.

[@bentoombs]

That's a good resource cuz you can go back and read watch the video and compare them again and Rewind it. right on thank you John that was cool. I can't wait for the Heat Treating one because that's what I'm really into learning right now, the science. AvE did a pretty good video on all that with the pearlite and cementite austenite.

[@stephenmcfadyen1385]

John, an interesting and complex subject, the old smiths in my network keep things simple with their treatment of questionable steels. Your previous presentation on quenching in brine, oil and water goes hand in hand with a general spark test and that guides them. They all vary on the question of normalizing versus annealing but one thing seems common regardless of technique none of the smiths in my network make things for sale and all agree you need to have consistency with your products and need a little more specific knowledge. Generally speaking their guidance for general blacksmithing is learn through experience none of them purchase tool steels they all have a supply of what they call junk steel Very interesting as usual Regards Stephen

[@taterosu1]

thanks. great video. really looking forward to this series

[@grandadz_forge]

Oh baby this is gonna get gooood! Very interesting.

[@johntompkins147]

Nice visuals, good advice, Thanks John

[@oljames1687]

..Not boring at all Sir !! I asked my wife to pick me up some extra notebooks and paper so i can keep up. Title of your first book should be- "How many ways can you Skin a Cat? Let's find out.." by John Switzer

[@drason69]

And remember...the first trick to skinning a cat, is getting the Whiley Bugger to hold still. ;)

[@motome8]

Wow, if I didn’t check every day, this series would make me want to check every day. Can’t subscribe twice :(

[@82finesa]

This will be a great series can't wait.

[@3babaroga]

Thank you.

[@eisenstahlbrenner3516]

You also need to look at the colour of the sparks addinng another dimension to the complexity

[@scottreynolds4827]

I like your style. I use spark testing very little. Rare for me to use an unknown. I dont condone the use of unknow steel. I buy new from the machine shop. And should I forge spring steel ,1080, a file, etc, it is rare that I would need to harden and temper.

[@getoverit4887]

Well the point of this video is for those who can't always afford to go out and buy materials. As well as those who just want to figure out whether they may be able to harden a mystery steel because they are new to the craft and don't want to waste money buying expensive steels to learn with. It is possible to take reclaimed steel and make something just as if not more beautiful than something made with bought steels.

[@shanemccauley8354]

Finally a video on spark testing, I'm sure there are others but nothing new

[@lenblacksmith8559]

Love this John, very very interesting.

[@lenbrandstad2860]

Interesting video, great idea on having known samples to test. Look forward to the next video

[@3870TheDad]

AWESOME VIDEO!!!! Wish I could have had even just a little of the information when I was Blacksmithing. Keep going, John.

[@DBacaMaker]

I think it should have been obvious to me to test my scrap yard metal to known samples, but somehow, as a total newb, it just didn't occur to me. Thank you for reminding me of the scientific method. :-)

[@drason69]

Sounds like an excellent series you have planned John. Please drop a link in the forgeing it forward page on Facebook. There have been a lot of questions about steels lately, and even in BigDogForge live stream Sunday, a question was asked about sucker rod. There were at LEAST 5 comments saying " go check out black bear forges videos, he has some great info on sucker rod". I also pointed out your source, mentioned in a video, for those looking for sucker rod. Thanks for this video!

[@masterofnone17]

Will the steel spark the same it has been hardened?

[@bogomir67]

Yes. The sparks relate to the materials in the alloy, not to the state they are in.

[@devf5576]

Great question great answer thank you I was also wondering the same

[@andresmedina9967]

Very nice. Thanks for sharing

[@josephchestnut3770]

Do metals spark differently if they're annealed or hardened? I assume it would be the same due to the content of the steel, but couldn't grain size and hardness determine how much the grinder is digging in and if its throwing more sparks or less.

[@BlackBearForge]

As long as the grinder is cutting, they are similar.

[@Dreyno]

I like hearing the wind 🙂

[@luciusirving5926]

Hacksaws are the best way to differentiate CrMo or medium carbon from true high carbon steel. If the teeth can't scuff a tempered piece of steel, then that metal is true high carbon stuff. My recycled coil spring is pretty much medium carbon or 4161 CrMo at best.

[@insperatus]

Will the spark pattern be any different in a given type of steal if it is hardened vs. annealed?

[@BlackBearForge]

It would be worth checking. But there shouldn't be much change

[@theaussie7160]

I was walking around a old tin mine site about 120 years old an picked up a pile of steel when I put it to the linisher it sparks blue ..(what sought of steel is this )cause this steel looks an feels like a good weight .. come to think of it this steel was laying around a very long time an had very little rust about half a millimetre

[@SSSmithing]

Good video

[@gregrice123]

Thanks for making this video. Does he area being ground and pressure being put on the grinder affect the amount of sparks?

[@BlackBearForge]

yes, but its the shape of the spark you are looking at not the quantity

[@gregrice123]

@@BlackBearForge Thank you for the reply and thanks for all the great info in your vids. Would you elaborate on the shape of the spark?

[@kmccolly]

Would an infrared thermometer be practical for determining critical temperature?

[@BlackBearForge]

They don't seem to have the pinpoint accuracy needed, but if you can be sure it is reading the material not the surrounding environment it would be accurate enough. Although most of them don't read that high, so you will need to look for just the right model.

[@TufStockdogs]

John thanks for the video, I am wondering are we looking for more spark is? Softer or harder I just don't understand this.

[@BlackBearForge]

hotter and more complex sparks generally mean more carbon, but various alloys can also change the spark. Thats why having samples of known material helps

[@nicolaasporter3215]

I see it in every video so I gotta ask. What's with the broken fan in the background?

[@BlackBearForge]

That is the blade for a little garden windmill a neighbor want repaired. It's only been hanging there a few weeks

[@nicolaasporter3215]

Black Bear Forge Thanks. It had me guessing what it is. Couldn't figure it out.

[@seeskiff]

Very interesting video and I am looking forward to your test hardening routine. I must admit I do get nervous when I see the dangling corners of your jacket in every frame after having seen a young woman lose a piece of he scalp when her hair got caught in a grinding wheel. Be safe, Rolf

[@stuumblefingerz4351]

As much as I am looking forward for your discussion about normalizing,annealing,heat treat.i have to disagree about spark testing because their is to many variables,your pressure that you put on the grinder can throw a bunch of sparks or a lighter pressure can throw heat treated sparks but not as condensed as a heavier pressure.thats my two cents,but I am looking forward to your comments on this subject. Thank you very much

[@BlackBearForge]

I had holed that I go the point across that spark testing was not completely reliable

[@Tailss1]

it's my understanding a good/experienced blacksmith can heat the metal in the fire and hit it on the anvil and get a good idea what he has.

[@hosiercraft9675]

Well, I don't know if it's my eyes or lack of metallurgical education, but I've not had much luck at telling much from spark testing. So I have to do sample heat treat. Just to be sure.

[@BlackBearForge]

Spark testing can be difficult to come to any final conclusions. Like any test, it just provides another piece of the puzzle.

[@5x535]

Great topic, John. This business of heat treating is full of misinformation and old blacksmith tails. I found your spark test demo quite interesting. Right off I would say that one can not glean very much useful information from it, with all of the alloys that we have today. In 1850 when there were only about four different iron/steels, it was much more valuable. I am looking forward to what you have for us. A question that I have is, is "normalizing" just a half-assed annealing. It seems like it is a modern term for modern times when nobody is willing to wait overnight. Do I have this about right?

[@BlackBearForge]

Spark test is certainly not as simple as it was when all you were doing is looking at carbon content, the alloys do throw the results off. While I still feel that annealing is better than normalizing, I think there may not be enough difference in simple steels to matter.

[@Mwhbmnabjms]

Sir ur jacket needs to be button all the time during working, it almost catch by the belt sander

[@PeopleAlreadyDidThis]

Admitting that I have essentially zero experience with this, I’m finding myself a skeptic for anything more than the most basic culling of “hardenable” versus “unhardenable steels-that is, sufficient carbon content. The major difference in spark color, bursts, and I’m sure other characteristics I don’t even recognize between different hard alloy steels seems to render further recognition fruitless. Hope you can prove me wrong.

[@BlackBearForge]

It is certainly not a perfect science. But similar steels with similar alloys do produce a similar spark pattern. It can be especially useful when you forgot to label that new piece of steel and six month later you can't remember if its O1 or W1. Spark test will quickly tell you the answer as long as you have a known sample of each to test.

[@loul7239]

I would seriously appreciate seeing you try out the "break test" for determining how best to heat treat an unknown steel. I found a great explanation here: www.bamsite.org/tips/heat.pdf I tried it once early on before I had experience enough to really use it. Still, I learned a lot and what I know about heat treatment now comes from that experience. Oops, sorry, I just SPAMMED your comment section.

[@BlackBearForge]

As long as it is relevant to the video, its just fine

[@jamesmcmillen4828]

I saw Blackbeard Forge make a C-clamp, combining blacksmithing with machining. I thought this was interesting, and could potentially result in a better quality tool than you can purchase in a store. How would you go about making one? kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJS9aWmHaZ5gaNk

[@BlackBearForge]

I haven't really given it much thought.

[@jamesmcmillen4828]

Black Bear Forge Future project, perhaps?

[@BlackBearForge]

James McMillen might be fun

[@shifty3453]

Still won't sell me that piece of hayrake?

[@BlackBearForge]

I wasn't planning on selling it.

[@shifty3453]

Black Bear Forge damn never mind. Have a good one mate!