How to Install a Double Switch for a Bath Light and Fan

[@pointbreak8293]

Bill, seems as if you always get the older generation switches to replace and get up to code... you’re the man... awesome video as usual sir.. have a great rest of your week and stay safe...👍👍👍

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks! You enjoy your week as well!

[@kenbrown2808]

the best trick I've found for getting paint out of a device screw slot is to first find the slot by chipping off the outer layers with your electrician's chisel (flathead screwdriver) and then line up the screwdriver at the end of the slot, against the paint filling the slot, and then drive it sideways through the slot with your electrician's hammer (9" lineman's pliers) this will usually pop the paint free of the slot and take it out cleanly. it also frequently breaks the rust on the screw loose from the rust on the box and makes it easier to back the screw out. if it is still tight, it can sometimes be started easier by seating the driver in the slot, and gently rapping on the handle while you turn the screwdriver.

[@SparkyChannel]

Excellent tips, thanks!

[@garydudgeon]

Great explanation Sparky.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Gary!

[@MAGSJok3r]

We installed this switch on a bathroom circuit downstreamed from a AF/GFCI - one switch controlling vanity lights plus shower lights, one controling 480 CFM fan. Switch grounded. Nice space saver. Great Video

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Magdalena!

[@Eddy63]

Hey Wild Bill , which is more exciting to work on ? Paint filled slotted screws or really short wires ? Lol ... And yes Knipex are very proud of their tools ... Great vid as usual ...

[@SparkyChannel]

LOL! Well this box had both a short wire and paint filled screws so it was extra fun! Thanks Eddy!

[@illestofdemall13]

In this video, you said that you can recognize that the older original wire is for the light, and the newer add on is the fan. Another easy way for someone to recognize each load on a double switch is to take note ahead of time of the orientation before removing the old wires. In this case, the top switch is the light and the bottom is the fan.

[@SparkyChannel]

Excellent tip Kris, thanks!

[@illestofdemall13]

@@SparkyChannel Any time.

[@njsongwriter]

I just installed one of these a few days ago. Instead of just replacing two old switches I also moved the switch location by connecting #14 3wire w/ground. Black wire taking power to the new switch and red and white wires bringing power back to the old switch location and connecting power to the light and the fan. (I painted the ends of the white wire black with a permanent magic marker.)

[@kenbrown2808]

by code, you're no longer allowed to do that, because of the requirement for a neutral in the switch box. also, while it is allowable yo use a white wire for a hot conductor under certain circumstances, it is not permitted to use it for a switched conductor.

[@njsongwriter]

@@kenbrown2808 So what exactly would I connect a neutral to in the switch box when the only thing in the SWITCH box is the switch. There is no terminal on the switch to connect a neutral to... Makes no sense! Anyway this home was built to manufactured home requirements as they were in 1996. If you're not allowed to use a white wire for a switch conductor are you saying that the three wire w/ground needed to have black, red and some other color than white which wouldn't have been any different in reality but would have likely cost more money. (Do they even sell that?)

[@njsongwriter]

@@kenbrown2808 Okay so what I should have done was bought 4-wire w/ground and simply capped off the neutral in the switch box (to meet most current code). Ugh. Guess I'll just pretend that this was done before 2011 when the old rule was still in effect. 😉 The switch box is in a location where no one should ever need to (or want to) tap onto it to install a receptacle or anything else. The switches in it simply operate a ceiling light and exhaust fan in the M bath. There is a double duplex receptacle at the vanity. But if someone wanted to then they could replace the 3 wire w/ground with a 4 wire w/ground without too much trouble but it would be easier to tap off an outlet in the adjoining master bedroom which is still the same circuit. m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/pp_PeXafh7OSiLc

[@kenbrown2808]

@@njsongwriter it is so that when you decide to replace the stack switch with a dimmer for the light and a digital timer for the fan, there will be a neutral to connect the timer to. and the reason for having the white either hot or neutral but not switched is so nobody in the future mistakes it for a neutral because the switch is off, and connects it to the neutrals.

[@keytothegate68]

Can you do this split ( with new pigtails) if you have only a hot and neutral going to the switch?

[@jkey3835]

Yes

[@IsshmanGarcia]

@Sparky Channel Could you please do a practical demo of multiwire circuits and dangers of lifting the neutral wire, as it applies to Residential receptacles.

[@CHCMATT1]

This is super helpful Sparky! I am planning to do this soon, so I really appreciate these videos. Keep up the awesome content :)

[@SparkyChannel]

Excellent! Thanks Matthew!

[@mathman0101]

Hope you and your family are well Bill. When you get an old 1960s house with it’s no ground wire would you always recommend to the homeowner that grounds are run to all switches receptacles or better still re-wire the house which might be easier. I suppose when cost is an issue all you can do is at a minimum make it as safe as possible.

[@kenbrown2808]

that is always a difficult question. optimally, you would do a full rewire, to being everything up to current standards, less because of the lack of grounding than because the wire is old, and because modern living uses a lot more electricity than the 60s. the next best would be to protect every general use circuit (code calls it general lighting) and specific purpose receptacle circuit with a dual function arc fault/ground fault circuit breaker - and if the panel board is not new enough for those breakers, (I'm looking at you Zinsco, Federal Pacific and Pushmatic) then you should upgrade the panelboard, anyway, because the breakers are functionally obsolete. they only trip from overheating, so a hard short (what electricians refer to as a bolted fault - the worst short you can get) the breaker will take extra time to open - leaving an opportunity for the short to start a fire.

[@mathman0101]

@@kenbrown2808 Thanks Ken I know in the UK it would have to be a full rewire and panel replacement. Just wondering if a customer/client is old and doesn’t have the resources I guess you try to make it safe as possible, recommending rewire and panel upgrade but leave to the client to decide.

[@kenbrown2808]

@@mathman0101 there have been a few projects I've put my foot down and told them if they wanted me to fix it, it needed a full rewire. I've had a few where the customer couldn't afford the repair and I basically told them my conscience wouldn't allow me to leave the problem unfixed, even though they couldn't pay. on the good side, wire from the 60s, here is usually still reasonably sound, and wood frame houses usually need refurbished before the wiring gets dangerously bad.

[@mathman0101]

@@kenbrown2808 god bless you for doing the right thing and helping those in need.

[@kenbrown2808]

@@mathman0101 as a local bumper sticker says, "we're all going to die, and we know it. you'd think we'd be nicer to each other"

[@xelaju8]

Sparky is the best. Thank you. I love this channel.

[@SparkyChannel]

Glad you enjoy it! Thanks!

[@Jeff-Lawrence]

Hi Bill from Sparky channel Great explanation What a mess inside that box, yuk Keep up the great work

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Jeff, have a great day!

[@ccadama]

@Sparky Channel. Thank Bill for another educational video. Seeing old wiring with fabric insulation brings back memories to the home I grew up in that had it and I'm pretty sure all the circuits were run in conduit. If that's the case, does that make it easier to rewire back to the main panel? At least the fuse box was replaced with a circuit breaker panel. Hope you and your family stay safe and well.

[@SparkyChannel]

Yes, re-wiring is greatly simplified if the wires are in conduit. Thanks and you guys stay safe as well!

[@mugg1841]

Do you have a video for a switch with a light on the other end so it lights when turned on?

[@JasonW.]

A pilot light switch is what you are looking for. Leviton 5628-2w or for more fun, 3 way version 5638-2w

[@mugg1841]

@@JasonW. I bought a Eaton light switch with a pilot light. Want to replace my attic light switch with that so I know when the lights are on from the switch. When I took down the current switch the white wires are twisted and capped with a wire nut. The black wires are on the switch. The new switch has 2 black screws on one side for “line” and the other side has one brass and one silver screw. Do I need to put a pigtail on the whites and attach it to the silver screw on the new switch? Trying to wire it properly thanks.

[@JasonW.]

@@mugg1841 Yes, add a pigtail to the white wires and attach to the silver screw on the switch. Edit: incoming line black wire goes to the black screw, and load black wire to the brass colored screw. And then be thankful the original installer brought power to the switch, then to the light, or you likely wouldn't have the white wires.

[@JasonW.]

@@mugg1841 You'll know if you have black wires on wrong screws, the pilot light will be on all the time.

[@mugg1841]

@@JasonW. thanks for the reply. I thought that’s what needed to be done but wanted to be sure before tapping into the whites to add to the switch.

[@Jann-IanHouston-Graham]

Hi Sparky, Your video on replacing the double switch ("Double Switch Test and Replacement for Bath Fan and Light in a 1960 House") was helpful, but I have encountered a problem that I hope you (or someone) can advise me on. My mother has an old double switch that controls two lights (one on each switch). One side of the old switch stopped working (it controlled a light in the bathroom), while the other side continued to work (it controlled a light in the laundry room). I replaced the switch, but I can't quite get it to operate the two lights entirely separately. The bathroom light is fine. I can turn the switch that controls the light there on and off and the bathroom lights go on and off. Great. However, the second switch, which is supposed to control the light in the laundry room, only works when I have the bathroom light on (i.e., the switch for it is on). If I have the switch for the bathroom light off, the switch that controls the laundry room light doesn't do anything. The laundry room light remains off. When I turn on the bathroom light (using the adjacent switch), the switch for the laundry room light turns the laundry room light on an off. I'm puzzled. At first I thought that the switch might be faulty, but I've now tried 3 switches and each time I had the same result. I've changed around the wiring, but that has only made things worse. There are two cables coming into the box. The one that controls the bathroom light has power (one black wire as well as a white wire that I have attached to the opposite side of the switch). There is no power in the other cable, which runs to the laundry room light. I currently have the black hot wire fastened to a black screw on one side of the switch and the white wire from that cable, as well as the black wire from the 2nd cable fastened to the brass screws on the other side of the switch. I realize that no one may respond, but I am hoping to figure out what I need to do to correct the arrangement (my Mom says she's OK with having to turn on the bathroom light in order to use the switch for the laundry room, but some Moms will forgive anything!). Cheers, Ian

[@brandonbaker6129]

Just saw this, did you figure it out? Where is the other white wire connected to that goes to the laundry room light?

[@mikeherndon1281]

Great video and I’m a novice at wiring. Question please. You said in the video that you connected the Neutral wires. Where did these come from seeing that the only Romex is to the fan? Again, I’m new to this, so may get some laughs from everyone!

[@warronfrench8163]

Fantastic video as always Sparky. Your videos have reminded me and helped me to save tons of money on electricians fees.. Thank you.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Warren!

[@aliso-pv7ll]

Sparky, In passing I saw an Ideal product that is used instead of electrical tape to wrap around the duplex outlet. Now I cannot seem to locate the product name. Do you know about what I ask? Sparky, Thanks!

[@SparkyChannel]

Hi! Check out my video: IDEAL ArmourBand Insulating Wraps 47-100 kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4S0Z62di8SiZ7M The link for the product will be in the video description if you're interested.

[@aliso-pv7ll]

Sparky, thanks for the correct response. The ArmourBand was what I was looking for.

[@jeffscomp]

I replaced one of those switches but it was for a bedroom ceiling light and a closet light. I didn’t know what wire went to what but after so many tries the closet light stayed off with the switch for it off and they both work the way they’re supposed to.

[@SparkyChannel]

Hi Jeff! Great to hear from you!

[@jeffscomp]

@@SparkyChannel thanks Bill it’s good to hear from you too and watch your awesome videos. I hope everything is good. 🙂

[@Lyrisik]

I've actually switched to Wago lever nuts after seeing them in ur video

[@SparkyChannel]

Sounds good to me, thanks!

[@Lyrisik]

Thanks for the sub!!!! I've been binge watching ur vids and it was cool to get that notification from you.

[@SparkyChannel]

That's great! Thanks! No problem on the sub.

[@blohnnie7395]

Very simple explanation. Learned a lot.

[@SparkyChannel]

Glad it was helpful, thanks!

[@Pallidus_Rider]

Would be nice to have link to Instagram account on your About section. That way you can share photos of work, tools, etc. 👍

[@SparkyChannel]

Good idea.

[@johnham7422]

Hello sparky.,thank you for great video , I learned lot of information from your video. Do you have a video for two single pole switches with GFCI, if you have a video could you please share with me . Thank you

[@JD-ch1wo]

What happened if I hooked it up like that and nothing worked?Its an old house and we added wire

[@Sally-nd5pc]

Hi,how can i contact you?

[@dakotbeastj]

Pretty handy device!

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks!

[@itsali654]

Why don’t we use this more often ? People like the individual switches more ? Or is it more expensive?

[@SparkyChannel]

Individual switches are preferable but sometimes there isn't enough room for a 2 gang box.

[@josianrodriguez1249]

SALUDOS SPARKY FROM CLIFTON N.J ANOTHER GREAT VIDEO. G.B.Y.

[@SparkyChannel]

¡Saludos de San Diego!

[@colinstu]

ouch, a pushmatic panel. that needs to go!

[@SparkyChannel]

I agree.

[@GBGardnerBender]

How can I contact? I'd like to explore a possible partnership.

[@SparkyChannel]

Hi! I love your products! [e-mail]

[@bananaaaa3428]

Hey guys I noticed a lot of link spam in the comments close to a time stamp link, don’t click it. I know some of u guys are probs old so uh just wanted to watch out for u

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks, I always remove such links when I see them.

[@marlonhernandez8411]

3:58 you don't need to turn it off, I changed mine live

[@tedlahm5740]

Ground wire in a switch box, decades before required by NEC? Much prefer a window in a bathroom.

[@SparkyChannel]

I was surprised to see the ground wire there but I put a Wago on it to extend it because it was so short and hooked it up. :)

[@nickanthony90]

Why does my double switch have 6 wires and yours has 3?

[@jerryjohnson2421]

thank u cut the power ....the breaker boxx

[@SparkyChannel]

Excellent advice, thanks!

[@Deafjustin]

1960 house had two wires and no ground mean older house had clothes with wires.

[@SparkyChannel]

Hi Justin! Hope you're well!

[@MrTooTechnical]

great

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Dave!

[@hilariohernandez340]

Hey sparky. Let me know if you can see my comment.

[@SparkyChannel]

Got it.

[@maggiegonzalez7117]

My landlord came and replaced mine. He couldn’t get the fan to work!!

[@SparkyChannel]

Uh-oh.

[@maggiegonzalez7117]

@@SparkyChannelI’m going to try it myself because at first he couldn’t get the light to work then when he switched the wires he couldn’t get the fan to turn off!

[@jkey3835]

@@maggiegonzalez7117 Sue him for negligence.

[@konamanstudio2447]

😆🍻🍺😊

[@SparkyChannel]

Cheers from rainy San Diego! 😊