Sparta and Athens; The Cold War For Ancient Greece

#possiblehistory #ph #extreinexile #ancienthistory #ancienthistorydocumentary #ancientathens #ancientsparta #peloponnese #delianleague #sparta #thebes #persia #persianempire #achaemenid
Extra In Exile: Athens, Sparta & Persia - Rock, Paper & Scissors
• Athens, Sparta & Persi...
This video will be an exploration of the world of Ancient Greece following the Greco-Persian war. Following the defeat of the Persians, twice, peace has now returned to the Ancient Greek lands. But not all is well. There are essentially 5 very important entities to discuss in regards to the post Greco-Persian war world. Athens, rulers over the waves, holder of a large pan-Hellenic empire in the form of their "military alliance", the Delian League. Sparta, the oligarchic and monarchist candidate, famed from their increadible military abilities. Thebes, the third underdog. Aligned with Sparta in the hopes of annexing more lands into their federation. Macedonia, the kingdom that really, really wants to be Greek. And finally Persia, bitter about their previous defeats, still deeply ingrained in Greek geopolitics. Join me in exploring the cold war for ancient Greece between Athens and Sparta.
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[@chickenusgoddus464]

Hearing the Peloponnese called an island instead of a peninsula feels so wrong

[@santiagoale1377]

Well today is an island. Isn't there an artificial channel that cuts the peninsula making it an island?

[@santiagoale1377]

Corinth channel

[@vitovitale8325]

I agree it's not an island

[@GeiaGregor]

While taking place in a small amount of land it might be one of the most influential wars in history

[@YaBoiBaxter2024]

Alright, looking at this newly released video, here are some althistory scenarios about Ancient Greece: What if the Persian Empire conquered Greece & how would that effect our world today? What if Athens achieved full dominance over the Aegean sea and the greater Mediterranean? What if Sparta had conquered its neighbours and spread its thinking amongst its fellow Greeks? What if Thebes had also conquered its neighbours instead?

[@wargamesmaster]

What if Mycenae didn't went extinct at the end of the Bronze age and became the dominant Greek city-state?

[@tfcshortsnon-official7283]

@@wargamesmaster we dont have enough knowledge to be able to possibly predict if a bronze age event didnt occur

[@YaBoiBaxter2024]

@@tfcshortsnon-official7283 There's many factors to its cause aswell.

[@YaBoiBaxter2024]

@@wargamesmaster Probably would expand into the Balkans as they weren't known to be heavily sea based, unlike Athens or even Sparta.

[@tfcshortsnon-official7283]

@@YaBoiBaxter2024 Yeah good point too, also since w edont know who the sea people were we cant just say "whoops guess they dont exist now, lets continue the video"

[@liamglassford]

Dude this channel is mint. I’ve been much less bored since I started watching you. You’re topics are always super interesting. Thanks for existing

[@L0KUST1]

Thank you so much for talking about this! I love the rivalry between the Greek city states and feel like it’s under appreciated and overlooked.

[@winky498]

15:40 thats the island of Σύρος (Siros) shown in pink, Δήλος (Delos) is a tiny island slightly east. It actually zooms in on the correct island

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Ancient greece, one of the most fascinating times in history!

[@spaceracer6861]

Quick question: Throughout the video you call the Peloponnesian peninsula an island; is this a poetic remark to how the name Πελοπόννησος means Pelopian island or just a minor error?

[@georgetanner9381]

Maybe it was on purpose since it was refered to as an island in ancient Greece...

[@Pancakesbutcat]

Nice pfp

[@FederationMapping]

Great video as always. Hope to see some ancient greece alternate history in this channel as well 11:50 also the word proedroi is pronounced proedre and it means presidents, almost all the positions you mentioned, as well as the boule, have an English translation too.

[@konstantinosadamopoulos9918]

Great video! Slight correction at 5:48 Peloponnese is not an island And at 15:45 that's not Delos, that's Syros. Delos is the southern one from the cluster of three islands east of the one depicted.

[@santiagoale1377]

Corinth channel cof cof

[@Panzerless_SG]

I think the slight mistake about the Peloponnese is because of PH mothertongue. In Dutch (PH is dutch just incase you weren't aware) a Peninsula is called a Schiereiland (eiland is the word for island in Dutch)

[@konstantinosadamopoulos9918]

@SwampCyclist Oddly, nese (νήσος) in greek also means island so the Peloponnese means Pelop's island.

[@papazataklaattiranimam]

Some generations later, the Athenian general and notoriously difficult histori ographer Thucydides (second half of the fifth century BC) went a little further still by trying to make sense of the different Greek dialects and to characterize their interrelationships. He reported, for instance, on a case of dialect mixture on Sicily (Historiae 6.5.1). The inhabitants of the city of Himera spoke, Thucydides claimed, a variety that occupied a middle ground between Chalcidian lonic and Doric, an assertion for which there is, by the way, no historical evidence (Vassallo 2005: 89). The Athenian historian also mentioned that the Greek spoken by the Aetolians was not understood by other Greeks (Historiae 3.94.5), thus apparently proving that not all varieties of Greek were mutually intelligible.

[@spaceracer6861]

An average Tuesday for Thucydides

[@wankawanka3053]

Doesn't stop them from being greek anyway i mean the eleans were called barbarophonoi aka Barbarian speakers because if their dialect and the eleans were the greeks in charge of the Olympics 😅

[@behlulhan421]

nice name

[@ylmazirdenyazc8393]

​​@@wankawanka3053 only Lycians were able to break the rule, they were whilst not being Greek (they were a Anatolian speaking people if i remember correctly) were seen as equals. Even more than Macedon,

[@wankawanka3053]

​@@ylmazirdenyazc8393 from where did you get that ?no lycian has participated in the olympics or any other panhellenic activity unlike the Macedonians ,they also don't have any connections to the greeks when it comes to greek myth again unlike the Macedonians they were just very hellenised

[@lolpuuroa]

amazing video but I can't overstate how much my insides suffered everytime you called the Peloponnese an island

[@emilianohermosilla3996]

Your content’s always so fun!

[@thunderstruck8734]

Great video and thank you for making a video about our civilizations . Also can you make the subtitles greek? I think it will be very helpful for students like me in Greece that don't understand English

[@actium_ev6083]

I love how much your content has grown from that whatifaltist response. Keep up the good work 👍

[@jimmothy3012]

This is the colab we needed

[@louesorg]

It's a very nice and different approach. I appreciate the detailed information!

[@Lybiusseverus461]

You are helping me with my History exam in 3 days

[@dominicadrean2160]

If Greece wasn't divided in the multiple city-states, it could have been a very powerful Empire. Imagine all of Greece having the military strength of Sparta and have the fleet of Athens that's a very powerful Empire

[@YaBoiBaxter2024]

*greece

[@TheMisterDarknight]

The greaseball empire

[@YaBoiBaxter2024]

@@dominicadrean2160 lmao

[@SuperCrow02]

The competition is what created all of these advantages though, if they were unified they would have lost most of these. Also they essentially were united during Alexander's conquest of Persia.

[@TheInternationalist]

You described a nation. That didn't come for thousands of years. Back then all city states were the de facto governing bodies. Rome another example. The idea of a unified Greece was something 99.999 percent of people would have had no concept of. The only way to unify in anyway would be one city state conquering the others which happened from time to time.

[@lolcrafter7446]

Great video!

[@BettercallSaul2005]

Athens : did you said boats ? BOATS? You guys definitely need some Athenian freedom. Fortunate song in Ancient Greek ( starts playing in the background)

[@tyvamakes5226]

So technically, Sparta was a duarchy, since monarchy is rule of one and duarchy is rule of two. How can we forget the infamous tetrarchy by diocletian, which was rule of 4?

[@SuperCrow02]

Except the two monarchs didn't even rule

[@hawk992]

​@@SuperCrow02 *Duarchs 😉

[@DuxSanctiHadriani]

Diarchy

[@user-cd4bx6uq1y]

This was amazing

[@Techmorus]

Love this Collab

[@thewittywhygaming6487]

"I got distracted by this dog" I would too. That's a damn fine dog. :)

[@georgios_5342]

Excellent!

[@stargazer-elite]

Let’s go epic crossover PH

[@losisansgaming2628]

Ok i wasnt expecting this collab

[@alexisg1147]

I'm very glad you talk about my country and other countries outside western Europe and America because the 95% of history KZbinrs only talk about western Europe and America and a lot of fun and interesting content is lost keep it up 👍

[@MapMaker2011]

extra in exile has significantish friends on youtube and did a collab i am so excited!!!!!

[@deleeson]

very cool

[@Anton43218]

Could you do a video about romania? A good theme would be "what if the union of the romanian principalities under michael the brave lasted into modern times?"

[@YaBoiBaxter2024]

Or if the Iron Guard came in earlier and closer to that of Mussolini.

[@joeslater8693]

Possible history lets goo

[@VOTE_REFORM_UK]

The Peloponnesian war low key also reminds me a lot of WW1 in some ways. The central powers were like the Peloponnesian league in that they both represented the old conservative order and were also primarily land-based, while the entente powers were like the Delian league in that they were both the more liberal side that also happened to have more power over the seas and thusly had bigger, but more spread apart, empires. The biggest difference however is that the Peloponnesian league won and the central powers didn’t.

[@nickeyzs1820]

Here is an interesting scenario What if the Vardar offensive failed. Because of the offensive Bulgaria surendered followed by Austro Hungary I think it'll be an interesting scenario maybe the central powers could hold on for a few more months maybe could have even made peace.

[@helioslegigantosaure6939]

Thank you to love my enormous rich modest countrie history.

[@henrymicek4566]

I would love to see an Athenian victory in the Peloponnesian war scenario.

[@yeeyee5057]

What if Egypt and Mesopotamia was able to resist Persian conquests?

[@Kuroi_Karasu]

Can you do a video about what if Louis Bonaparte somehow remained king throughout and after the Napoleonic wars?

[@oracle372]

I saw bot Extra in Exile and your Athens & Sparta related uploads in my notifications at the same time, and wondered “huh is this a collab?” wow

[@geokou7645]

The Peloponneso isnt an island. Today, the re is a canal seperating it from the rest of Greece but it was built in modern times and back then there was a land bridge.

[@wankawanka3053]

Macedonia also took some parts in the peloponnesian war ,one of the few greek states to change their alliances to sparta and Athens

[@pashkevich0218]

Well, I want to see "what if austria won brothers war" it's would be cool, cuz it's such interesting swerve of history, unfortunately this was spoiled by hoi4 mod, so now it's seems like some pop culture thing.

[@bambinazo123]

1 hour omg This is the start of something better

[@f-22raptor86]

The collab I wanted lmao

[@geokou7645]

11:51 proethri is a way you can pronounce it. However there is no Δ sound in English so it’s not exact

[@WARCRIMINAL1]

You should do a scenario on what if the uk joined the axis and Edward VIII was still king

[@randomguy6152]

what if Sparta and Athens united Greece together

[@Techmorus]

Please make a what if the Franco-Prussian war turned into a big war (so if Russia or Austria would have joined and then Britain)

[@randomguy6152]

that guy that conquered Persia seems pretty great wonder why he's so unknown 😊

[@YaBoiBaxter2024]

I'm sceptical of Extra in Exile but I'll take a look and see.

[@nhandinh7404]

He’s pretty good 👍

[@STB4G]

IM SUBBED TO BOTH OF YOU OMFG

[@sahilhossian8212]

Lore for of Sparta and Athens; The Cold War For Ancient Greece momentum 100

[@PhantomZGames]

👍

[@generaledelogu1892]

Fun fact, the Athenian reformer who came up with ostracism was actually the first guy to be ostracised

[@theinterestingcompany3191]

Since this seems to be leaning towards ancient history, what if Carthage conquered Rome in the Punic Wars?

[@Commentation]

Came from Exiles vid

[@aiiv7839]

It's amazing how powerful and influential Ancient Greece was, whereas compared to today, Greece is just a middle power.

[@MrChopstsicks]

And 2000 years later, still using the same playbook lol fun times

[@herberthoover1790]

11:48 Proedroi actually means Presidents.

[@theoneblock7107]

Wow, this is way longer than the first part

[@vishwesh_nh]

Yeah did not expect that

[@zakan4898]

Nickpick- In Sparta it wasn't eklesia but it was called apella..

[@dominicadrean2160]

What if Alexander the Great went West instead of East

[@YaBoiBaxter2024]

Then Rome goes bye bye and the "west" of contemporary times will be more "democratic" and Greek speaking (or influenced by Greek).

[@yeetusdeletus8204]

@@YaBoiBaxter2024 No, If Alexander went west he wouldnt be known as a demi god, would mainly conquer up to the Danube and Illyria, Southern Italy may be possible but thats about it. Note that these areas already had a greek presence therefore he wouldnt be remembered as the greatest conqueror of antiquity.

[@YaBoiBaxter2024]

@@yeetusdeletus8204 I see, sorry, I kinda got my idea from althistory video (by AlternateHistoryHub). My bad 😅

[@yeetusdeletus8204]

@@YaBoiBaxter2024 Well I mean my scenario is also similar to what Althistoryhub posted, except he assumed that he would never lose a battle but especially in Central Italy, the phalanx would be very slow and unwieldy. Fighting in central Italy is what led the Romans to change their army from a phalanx to a manipular system. but it is a fun scenario

[@YaBoiBaxter2024]

@@yeetusdeletus8204 Indeed, he also forgot that the North of Italy was inhabited and invaded by Gauls, so Alexander might get bogged down fighting the Celtic tribes before he can advance towards the Etruscans and the Italic tribes.

[@mister_dadstersays_hi7372]

Epistates back then: Powerful political tool within Athens. Epistates now: janitors.

[@dominicadrean2160]

It's sad Greece has lost its light in history very sad it's not like a widespread language like it used to be with the byzantines😢

[@YaBoiBaxter2024]

And Romans beforehand.

[@Mr_OogaBooga]

If

[@dominicadrean2160]

What did Philip of Macedon did not die how would that change Alexander the Great's Conquest

[@level_breaded5364]

But… what about Epirus

[@MauventuresMaurio]

ANCIENT COLD WAR

[@dengronebaronen5260]

What if Siberia was warmer.

[@JackDrewitt]

"the Peloponnese Island"? its a peninsula?

[@JackDrewitt]

9:07 so you know it isn't an island?

[@Desmuu]

What if there was never a cold war with the USSR?

[@Taipei_103]

Never knew that Sparta had some democracy. I'm still a bigger fan of Athens though.

[@josephernst709]

Democracy in ancient Greece is as loose a term as it is today. Rule of *some* people *some* of the time

[@jon_the_special]

Hi

[@Amiro19199]

oh the legend is here!

[@-xavier-4276]

Dude I called my test now with this I can succeed

[@calmkat9032]

12:20 As a history channel, you have a responsibility to tell us what the dog doin

[@marym7104]

Within 27 minutes!

[@teodorradovic1254]

Kratos

[@dengronebaronen5260]

What if Sweden won the great northern war.

[@marym7104]

Within 878 views!

[@OsterreichBall]

Hell na man 5:29

[@azadde373]

can you make a video where the germans won the first world war?

[@roblerow4589]

What if sweden won the great northern war

[@Andrew-cn7zy]

hi

[@baronDioxid]

21:23 I mean, it's also because modern-day "Persia", Iran, is a brutal theocratic dictatorship...

[@zerses-es2ye]

I thought Sparta was on the Peloponnese peninsula not island, am I wrong about it?

[@georgedevries3992]

No, you're not.

[@veryfunnydoge7045]

11:50 Pro-e-dri

[@anthonylandin6788]

It funny to think that Rome existed During this time , since Rome was found 700 bc

[@wankawanka3053]

The peloponnese wasn't an island ...

[@JGN555]

What was crete doing

[@dominicadrean2160]

If any of you love mythology and I've studied Greek mythology you know how messed up the Greek gods are it honestly makes sense why most people in Greece eventually became Christians because they got the Bible is way better than their Pantheon of Gods

[@YaBoiBaxter2024]

This is a theory of mine (feel free to correct me as I'm not knowledgeable on this topic) but I think it's due to the fact that the God of Christians is a divine, unworldly figure, equal to none, yet the pantheons of the Greeks, Romans and pre Christian peoples of Europe (from their myths) acted quite similar to how regular humans acted (as in not being perfect, unlike the God of Christianity) and so it eventually stopped being practiced up until rn.

[@danehollyoak4897]

PUPPY!

[@evenlord7825]

Being a child you idolize Athens, but as an adult you appreciate Persia

[@raymondwen4210]

Nah I actually conquered all as Athens in AC Odyssey

[@santykara1372]

persia at the end is out of topic

[@adrianofeixa5026]

Alexander The great

[@The-Plaguefellow]

_"It's all types of bouleshit with these motherephors."_ - An unnamed Thessalian statesman commenting on the state of affairs between Athens and Sparta, c.430 BC

[@jcavs9847]

"The boule was essentially the political class of athens" this is so wrong it makes me angry. The whole point of the lottery system was that such a "political class" wouldn't develop! The "political class" was the whole citizenry!!

[@michaelthomas5433]

So, Athenians would have approved of the system where only white land-owning men could vote establised in 1776 in the USA. Not much improvement in the intervening millenniums there.

[@liltachanka9913]

Could you make a video on "What if Ethiopia was much stronger/ what if Ethiopia industrialised" would they develop like Russia/China? Would they develop like Japan? Both and/or neither? How would it affect the Indian ocean trade? I know this might get buried, but it would be really cool!