PID Tuning -- 💥MUST KNOW💥 -- information! 💪😎

[@BMFPV]

I don't have a clue about pid tuning it's been gobbledegook to me watching this has been the first video that explains it in a way that I mostly understand it thanks!

[@drkastenbrot]

your impact on the hobby is enormous and youre even getting people interested in the boring side of engineering THANK YOU

[@BooDevil65]

That's so not fair - I totally had to smash that like button because of your kid!

[@rcaddict9558]

Wow dude, I taught Automotive mechatronics 10 years ago at University in uk and basically all actuators, fuel/air ratio ,lambda exhaust mixtures and believe it or not, (Please i am humble, self taught and NOT BIG HEADED!). IT WAS SO MUCH SIMPLER THEN. I always looked at SETPOINT, PID ERROR, and STEADY STATE ETC, but Im also a Recovering Drug,Drink,ANY,Pill that would do something, addict,so cant remember alot! haha YOU HAVE JUST TAUGHT ME A SO MUCH EASIER WAY TO ADJUST PIDs!!! YOUR GOOD STUFF GEEZER! RESPECT FROM THE UK! THANKYOU!

[@brentsheldon8667]

Thanks Mark this video really helped me understand. Been involved in fpv for two years and have built a few five inch drones and have had good luck with betaflight default settings. The real trouble started with my 7 build. Getting the tune good on that has led to black box configurator and pid tool box along with multiple videos from you and Chris Rosser. Thanks again.

[@TomicaCZ]

Damn... I wish I saw this video like 5 years ago when I gave up PID tuning after few days when as you said here "I adjust 1 thing to correct something but at the same time I meesed something else up" and was chasing my tail. Thank you very much for explaining!

[@DanJonesShow]

Since I started tuning under your advice of D, P, I from videos in the past, and after watching a video that physically demonstrated PID tuning using a machine and dials, my tuning gets done faster and my quads fly smoother. Thank you 👍

[@1baggy0dodo4u]

I did the same thing with tuning D then P then I. It's how I tune. I like my tune but I ended up with higher D than P and lowered my I a lot. But I guess it's all about personal preference in the end as long as it perform well.

[@ChainsawFPV]

Your to smart for me. Lol. My brain requires basic info only. This is actually one of the most direct tuning videos you have made. I love it. Thank you friend.

[@yeahboyd5371]

This was KEY to my understanding!

[@billmcdonald4335]

I just started adjusting my PIDs a couple of weeks ago, and have them almost perfect for my way of flying. I use Angle mode [Save it, all you potential commenters. It's _my_ rig and I'll fly it _my_ way. :) ] and occasionally I get some mild wobbles in my outdoor flyer when trying to descend. It also wobbles a little bit on gusty days. Other than that it flies great, with no overshoots or bounce-backs and excellent propwash handling. Looks like I need to drop my I-term a tad. Thanks for this, Mark.

[@uavtech]

Yup. Also since in Angle, the Accelerometer play a role. There is a lowpass filter on the Accelerometer at 10hz which adds lots of delay to it's reading into the PID loop. You can try raising that up IF -- and only IF -- dropping the i-Gain doesn't get you all the way there.

[@billmcdonald4335]

@@uavtech Using the 'set acc_lpf_hz' in CLI, yes?

[@uavtech]

@@billmcdonald4335 correct, that's the variable. But do the i-Term stuff first. Acc has a lot of noise, and hence the low LPF.

[@billmcdonald4335]

@@uavtech I will. I think lowering the I-term will do the trick, as the tune is so very close to ideal as-is. I lowered the master slider one click, then bumped the P-D gain back up one click to restore their values. I think that'll do the trick. Just have to wait for the right conditions to test it, tho'. I live on a rock out in the middle of the North Atlantic; Newfoundland's a pretty windy place.

[@billmcdonald4335]

@@uavtech I got my wind conditions, just at sunset. The new settings eliminated virtually all the wobble. I was able to descend with control and confidence, and I had no discernible wind wobble. It also tracks the sticks a little better. I was able to fly at altitude and know that my descents weren't gonna be the usual white-knuckle, nerve-wracking prayerfest. Got three packs off, and only got the wobbles the once - by my own fumblethumbs. There'd be a wiggle every now and then, but some of those could've been me again. FYI, I fly a 100g AUW, 2S, 3-inch toothpick; BetaFlight 4.2.9; Bluejay v0.16; ELRS 2.0; and OpenTX 2.3.14.

[@TBloodFPV]

the end was adorable!

[@slowvoltage]

Once you started moving the term objects up and down it started to make sense. My mind was waiting for horizontal sliders. I need to watch full stream. Thank you for this excerpt.

[@martinrcflyer4089]

Wow. That’s the best video I’ve ever seen on PIDs. I’ve watched some of your timing videos before and to be frank, I’ve found them too fast and hard to understand. But this video is awesome. Thanks so much and thanks for all your work to get the sliders into BetaFlight too. You’re a legend 👏

[@CrawlersCampRc]

This makes it alot easier to understand what's going on when tuning. Thank you for doing these videos

[@srqTagle]

Thank you so much for teaching this at a very high level!!!!

[@DonatRC]

This is extremely helpful. Thank you.

[@mattdallas5671]

I love seeing new videos from yourself and Rosser

[@garethmctaggartfpv4252]

Thank you for explaining this in basic terms, been flying for a year and could never get head around tuning. Best understandable video for PIDs or should I say DPIs😂🔥🔥

[@sylvanlight120]

Thanks for this, very edifying.

[@Llegando_Tarde]

Ty this made alot of sense to me and helps with overall tuning theory in my mind

[@ma_fpv3718]

Thanks for the video, it's good to have a video that explain what to do for every case =)

[@hristiantodorov3923]

Finally a clear and simple strategy on tuning PIDs or should I say fDPIs !

[@linuxbarista]

So I've been bashing my head against a brick wall trying to figure all this out. Recently did a maiden build and had some twitching and trilling on betaflight defaults. I didn't really know how I should go about getting everything under control. Then this video pops up in my feed. I've watched your videos in the past but tuning still seemed like black magic to me. Now I have a nice quad with some decent parts that I built, and you've really helped me understand the direction I need to go tuning wise. Thanks for taking the time to make all the videos and breaking it down in a simple, logical, and understandable way for everyone new to the dark arts.

[@uavtech]

Thanks for the comment! Hope you get your new bird flying like a dream!!

[@MCsCreations]

Fantastic, Mark! Thanks a lot! 😃 Really useful tips!!! Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@rolisaenz]

Thanks again masta !!!

[@KKTHXFPV]

🙏Thanks so much for making this video!

[@pirateradioFPV]

I agree, I term often is too high. If you do really, REALLY tight proximity, pushing I term as low as possible actually helps with the nose tracking as I term has the tendency to fight the inputs. D doesn’t really fight the sticks, it makes things more floaty and less responsive. You can fight D with the sticks but the I term is really difficult to fight with the sticks as it so directly affects them. That’s just my impression of it ofc. I dislike the high I term feel so much that I’d rather lower it to a point where it hurts the performance. I hate the wash less than I hate how robotic the I term makes the quad feel. At the same time I wish I could have the cake and eat it too; if the I term was separated into input vs trajectory/gyro based values, you could tune the stick feel but still have the I to clean the trajectory/non input based stuff. Like the gusts etc. But I’m stupid, so. My ideas are probably the same 😁 Ah, right terminology - attitude vs trajectory. One could even make it so that the I term has a balance slider to which you want it to focus on 🤔

[@michaelbibby8636]

What about using the I-term relax to make up for too high I term? I've been flying with the I-term relax on 10 (the default is 15) and find that makes up for most of the problems caused by high I term.

[@Jagged-RotorsFPV]

Hi, you mentioned propwash performance by increasing all the term at once (7:21), do you mean increace by the same ratio or percentage?

[@uavtech]

Use the Master Multiplier slider. So hold ratios between terms.

[@MrSmithFPV]

Is wobble the same than prop wash?

[@Siamect]

Wobble can be caused by propwash. Wobble can be caused by other things as well.

[@uavtech]

I agree. To me, the key to defining a "wobble" is it is "slow" and typically happens at 0 or low throttle. Ultimately, if you are not sure if a wobble or not, cut i-gains by half. If it fixes it, it was a wobble. If not, it was not a "wobble". If not a wobble, could be a "shake" or "shimmy". The fix for "shakes" or shimmy can be more filtering or lower PD ratio. (which is more PD Balance slider in 4.2 --- I know, that will be cleared up in 4.3 to not be so confusing). In MANY-MANY-MANY cases, shakes can not be.cured through filter or PID tuning as they are mechanical issues (bad props or electrical noise issues) that can only be solved by mechanical changes.

[@gianlucacasali6762]

Hi thanks for all yours videos. I ve a strange problem that i cant solve. With Wind back if i realease throttle my quad stil mantein the altitude, and speed up the motor, like ive no response for one second ! Thanks a lot for your tips

[@uavtech]

Sounds like maybe a d-term noise issue? Check if it happens on default.

[@gianlucacasali6762]

@@uavtech thanks 🙏. I Tried first default, then work in I term, mixing p e d, but the feel changes not the problem. Seems like, hardware issue, but all brand new stuff. I dont know what to try . Thanks again happy easter!

[@FPVish]

Yes, an index is needed before even playing this video. Is there an order on how to tune ? Can we get an index for that too?

[@uavtech]

see the guide at theuavtech.com/tuning

[@duggerinc]

bf 4.4, so increasing the master multiplier should help with prop wash right?

[@uavtech]

Yup

[@duggerinc]

@@uavtech thank you, I found another video where you said that exactly. I'm catching on slowly.

[@marlin-fpv]

Nailed it! 👌🏼

[@SKIDOOSH]

Love the sliders! I hope the next BF will include the I term % in the sliders as well.

[@uavtech]

It will! :-))

[@truefpvblood158]

Learned alot today👊👊😎the ending was the best🤣🤣🤣🤣🤙 🤔Fortnite😜🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@57r4n63r]

Thanks for the great video! I'm still pretty new to all this and I find myself a bit lost trying to differentiate all possible "troubles" of a quad like oscillation vs throbbing (also not a native english speaker makes it all the more difficult :P ) Do you have a video that could help with that specifically? If not, perhaps that could be an idea for a video. In any case, Thanks !

[@uavtech]

New series coming your way

[@elxero2189]

Thanks

[@djilly75]

Great info!

[@3000gtwelder]

How do you get rid of oscillation when you punch the throttle, but when the voltage drops after a min, they go away?

[@uavtech]

In BF, set TPA breakpoint to 1750 and 0.8. That will drop the D-gain after 75% throttle by 80% and should smoothout full throttle vibes.

[@Krash_fpv]

What about desync.....my quad flies beautifull amd punches good...no wobbles except slightly on going fast rotating 180 amd punch i get little prop wash issue...but only when i punch and flick roll to do a fast low snap roll or juicy flick its as soon as i blip the throttle amd kill throttle,once i flick stick to full roll it will deathroll and fall out the sky....im lost i tried fast timing and raised dmag... im on bluejay

[@lemoncfpv8434]

so, if i increase p term, then i need to also increase i term simultaneously???

[@uavtech]

I would say you CAN increase i-Term simultaneously with the increase in P for better tracking in tight spirals, less drift on punch and throttle chops, etc...

[@TeddyH79]

The key to a good relationship IS D ⏩ P

[@PropDusting]

Fortnight all the way!!! Lol!

[@serenityfpv]

Question Sir, my marmotte flies pretty good but something weird i havent seen before. On straight forward flight, not touching sticks, the nose of the quad goes down very slowly. Not fast but definately enough to notice. What could cause that? 1050mah 6S, 2207 motors, gopro hero 7, rpm filtering. Thank you for all that you do!!

[@serenityfpv]

Also, there was a post on the betaflight facebook group about adc filtering on opentx transmitter. Should this always be disabled?

[@uavtech]

ADC disabled, Yes. Increase your Deadband in the receivers tab to 5. It is likely Pitch is just so slightly of center or has some jitter at center stick. Deadband should fix you up. I run 3 or 5.

[@MrJdmzach]

Dude thank you for making sense of this. I've struggled with it for years. This will help a lot of people. Does this apply to kiss f7 pids aka DPI? Thanks

[@uavtech]

Yuppers

[@EdwardLyonsFlynLyon]

Excellent

[@sunsetpark_fpv]

Hello UAV - Im still wet behind the ears regarding tuning, and lately it is starting to make sense. I can't wrap my head around one thing: After tuning filters on BF defaults, how do I tune D term without establishing a PD balance first (P term adjustment?) How can I tune a D term, (aka - anti P term), without first establishing a solid P term value?? Can you help me understand this?? It seems more sensible to me (as I have learned from your vids) to dial in P term first....???

[@uavtech]

You can do it any number of ways. The key is knowing how the terms relate to eachother. For example, I like to get PD balance squared first and then push up all the terms to make prop wash better - like you it seems - and then finalize I-term and take one last look at filters to see if I can lower any further after pushing up the terms.

[@sunsetpark_fpv]

@@uavtech Thank you UAV!

[@FlyturboKwad]

I have the HGLRC Petrel 75mm 1S version with 22000kv motors. The motors and battery get extremely hot along with poor flight time. I applied your UAV whoop preset but still have same issues. I don't have blackbox so what can be done to keep both motors and batteries cool?

[@uavtech]

Fly it on the BF absolute defaults (filter and PIDs --- 1.0 sliders, D_min abled, etc....) if they still get hot, it is a mechanical thing like being over propped.

[@FlyturboKwad]

@@uavtech OK thanks I'll give that a try.

[@djs134]

So I’m on 4.3 for my tp3 build and on 3s the tune is absolutely perfect but on 2s at the very low end of the throttle I get super minor oscillations, but they completely go away as I approach mid throttle, any clue what I should adjust. Thanks

[@uavtech]

Wobble is i-Gain too high. Reduce Drif-Wobble slider.

[@mihavuk]

Thank you! 👌

[@TheSnow520lee]

what's exactly trilling oscillations?

[@uavtech]

a flutter sound from the motors: theuavtech.com/2022/08/finding-your-flutter-point-for-optimal-performance/

[@TheSnow520lee]

@@uavtech I'm dumb, thanks for your answer... so if you push too much the Master Multip you could get the trilling oscillation due to high D amplifying the gyro noise, right? how do I know my D is too high or my filters are too low?

[@uavtech]

@@TheSnow520lee you will hear your motors make an oscillation sound or they will get hot.

[@noobsfpv1436]

Why does my drone lose control when I accelerate?

[@uavtech]

On defaults? It means you likely have a vibration issues that you need to deal with.

[@noobsfpv1436]

@@uavtech Yes bro

[@_NFE]

Does anyone else get that song "Da' DIP" by Freak Nasty stuck in your head when someone tells you to tune your PIDs backwards? 👀

[@uavtech]

You can tune whatever direction you want. The relationships remain facts in either case. 🎶🎶 Da Da DIP 😁😁😁😎😎😎 ratios. Adjust the numerator or denominator: I don't care. I love it. I don't care. 🎶🎶🎵🎵

[@_NFE]

Love it!!!!!!!

[@RubyS.1]

I P D

[@uavtech]

FTW! :-)

[@Whack_fpv]

1st!

[@Quick-Flash]

Oh boy. Im so glad that all the information about pid you can find on the internet teaches this. Really glad that we are following a hundred years of research when it comes to tuning pid. That was a lie. You never find any information about tuning dterm before pterm. It's not standard and I do not understand why this is being taught. Show me a paper about tuning d before p. I'll wait because I've spent some time looking for it.

[@uavtech]

Ohhh boy. So increasing PIDs does not make wash better now? Maybe on Flat Earth, but not on real earth. If you only raise P to max with little or no D, raise D to Critically Damped and set i-Term (classic) you are missing out bud. Fact is D max limits all other term max gains and max gains translates to peak flight performance. D->P->i is the KEY relationship. Knowing this is what makes a pro tuner a pro tuner.

[@Quick-Flash]

@@uavtech welp, your word vs 100 years of control theory. Find me a paper to support a d->p->i tuning method and I'll be impressed.

[@uavtech]

It does not go against text. It is just deeper insight in how it actually works and what limits what. You are not asking yourself deep enough questions in old tuning. Like after setting P, then D, then i, can you not raise all the terms more (together) to make wash better? The answer is yes you can. Experiment for yourself - don't take my word - and you will see how it all works. Rosser did, White did, Thompson did... everyone that does finds the truth... because facts are facts. Just look at DanJoneFPV comment on this video. He is one of many-many folks I get messages from all the time. 🤷‍♂️

[@Quick-Flash]

@@uavtech if you want to just take others words for things then I can find hundreds of user reports where "I tried everything UAV tech said, but could not get my drone flying well. Then I flashed emu and my drone flew well." Your claims are that you know better than 100 years of control theory. That you know some deeper insight than others who have spent their lives researching this stuff. Sounds like the Dunning-Kruger effect to me. Like I said find me a reputable paper about the advantage of tuning this way. If it was such a revelation I'm sure that lots of industrial applications could benefit from this (pid is after all the most used controller in all industries).

[@uavtech]

Lol. Sure sure. 🤣 Whelp it doesn't change the facts of the PID relationships. You don't need a paper bud. Just move up your gains. Or don't. I don't care. Meanwhile folks and companies contact me all the time for professional tuning and that proof is in the pudding. It is NOT rocket science. I would say it is simple, but Emu doesn't have slider. Such a shame. Booo hooo. But you can still do the math manually. Move them all up to D max (trilling oscillation) and then back 5 or 10 (move D down and the rest with it). This is all just logical thinking that is 100% in-line with text. It is just how to set and move stuff a little smarter for our application to optimize wash. Last I checked PIDs for valves - for example - or cars, don't need to cope with prop wash.

[@REDfox00]

So Criss who majority of folks take for the all-knowinga and follow his guide nowdays isn't right with starting from master slides as he starts with inceasing gains

[@uavtech]

Sure. Master to get to D-max.

[@DronePlayground]

👍👀🇭🇷

[@daich]

Fortnite

[@Tonynux]

Mark, your videos are precious, I need to learn from your videos, but unfortunately I can't understand what you say. Your english is too difficult. You should strive to spell the words better, so that even people who have poor English skills can enjoy your precious videos.

[@uavtech]

Auto-translation is not working well enough by Google eh? :-/

[@Tonynux]

@@uavtech there is no auto-translation on KZbin app!

[@uavtech]

Sure their is.