Speakers Corner - Rob (atheist) talking to Shabir (muslim) about scientific accuracy of the Quran

Speakers Corner - Rob (atheist) talking to Shabir (muslim) about scientific accuracy of the Quran

[@selfdiscipline296]

shabir is around since the 90's, may Allah reward him for the good work

[@sumaiyarahman5163]

Loved this discussion with Shabir, one of the best. Thank you for uploading!

[@wiilwaal4224]

Shabir is one the best when it comes to have a fruitful discussion. shabir is way ahead then any one i have seen on the speaker's corner.

[@SpeakersCornerUK]

Please watch this video and comment as you may wish: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZbafZuNqqqGg6c

[@wachm3]

What you couldn't address to the mans face you went and done in his absence. I wonder why you often do that?

[@markhall4778]

Shabir is a well taught lier like Mohamed dodge the bullet ,Muslims don't know what holy is ! Mohamed piss be upon him was nothing but a killer , compare him to any saint or holy man he comes out like a donkey , if these Muslims researched other saints I think there pants would fall down , Mohamed was a fool who was sex mad and the only prophet that is hated by all religions

[@sully6902]

lol google for the win? you talk as if you are learned......you talk as if you knew him.......go back to watching porn.

[@h.t.p5653]

shabbier is an eloquent lier!

[@maximusjavelin6129]

Best logical outdoor discussion I have listened to - both talkers putting their statements forward and breaking down each point - much respect for Rob and Shabbir.

[@spoolindsm127]

I'm tired of listening to this "open minded" atheist. It's clear he's set in his ways. Shabir destroyed his argument and left him dazed and confused. He can't appreciate the accuracy and succinctness of the Quran and can't find anything wrong with the verse he was referring to yet thinks he knows better and wants The Creator to be more specific. Guy just wants attention.

[@catguy00]

Like how the sun sets in a muddy spring?

[@spoolindsm127]

catguy00 Nice try in misinterpreting the Quran but as Shabir would say, you have miserably failed. It's referring to Dhul-Qarnain who was traveling to the West and when he reached the last populated area beyond which there was nothing but a muddy spring, it looked to him as though the sun was setting in that spring. The Quran is not stating a scientific fact. Crystal clear if you're honest but you clearly are not. Surah 18:85-86 - So he followed a course, (85) Until when he reached the point of sunset, he found it setting into a miry spring, 1 and found a people near it. We said, “O Dhul-Qarnain, either punish them or adopt good behavior with them.” 2 (86) 1)This means that he reached the last populated area in the extreme West, beyond which there was nothing except a muddy spring, and it seemed to the onlooker that the sun was setting in that spring. 2)The king had conquered that area inhabited by the disbelievers, and like any other conqueror, he had power to punish them instantly, or to show kindness to them. While giving him two options, Allah Ta'ala, (by calling the second one as 'good behavior'), gave him a hint that the second option is the best. It's obvious what the verse means just by looking at the context without even reading the exegesis, but I know you don't like to do that. But it's okay, you'll be exposed regardless. Try harder next time even though you will still fail.

[@catguy00]

Sunan Abu Dawud 3991-Abu Dharr said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water.

[@spoolindsm127]

catguy00 No response to me refuting your misquoting of The Quran? That says a lot. Since you got destroyed now you've latched onto the hadith. No worries I'll school you on that too. This hadith was narrated from Abu Dharr by Yazid al-Taymi and from him by his son Ibrahim bin Yazid al-Taymi. From Ibrahim it is narrated by six different narrators; Out of these six, only Al-Hakam bin ‘Utaybah narrates the words "It sets in a spring of warm water." In addition, from these five out of six narrators there are at least eleven people narrating the hadith without these words. Whereas there is only one narrator down from Al-Hakam bin ‘Utaybah narrating these words which is Sufyan bin Husain. The narration containing the words "It sets in a spring of warm water." is anomalous (shaadh) and defective (mu'allal). It is not a sound (sahih) hadith. My initial comment was regarding the accuracy of the Quran not the hadiths. The Quran contains irrefutable facts. However the same cannot be said regarding all the hadiths since some are weak, defective or fabricated. Again you've failed miserably. Stop trying to deceive people and be honest to yourself and others. Give up on visiting anti-Islamic sites like answering-islam because you will always get refuted.

[@catguy00]

a5m What you are engaging in is called apologetics. Christians do the exact same thing with their Bible. It was "taken out of context" or "lost in translation" or "just a metaphor" is a common excuse for irrational passages.

[@gellegelle2827]

jazzak allah bi kheyr..brother shabir the way you discuss and show them its way ahead and easily understanding. may allah bless you.. keep doing this...

[@realknowledgeforshare9954]

great discussion and video.....thank you......

[@Shiraz687]

Thanks for uploading and excellent debate and looking forward more in the future.

[@drzakir123]

great video quality and sound.may allah bless u sir,i am subscribe to u channel.i will appreciate if u have more rational and objective discussion with shabir.love it

[@missyk2199]

Thanks for the upload.

[@patriotguy12]

Nice video

[@MOADAM2010]

Great video and quality Rob, i hope you do more video's in Speakers corner :) ! may ALLAH swt guides us and forgive us amieeeeen :) !!!

[@purereflections6009]

Great video quality

[@truth2249]

Allah give you hadayat rob

[@sumaiyarahman5246]

Thank you for this video! Subscribed:)

[@youzulf]

Excellent discussion.

[@asavlogsalltruthrevealed7483]

great mic

[@Just_logic]

He has an effective logical approach. Bob said “you hypnotized me”.

[@shahrukhmohammed6783]

GOD BLESS YOU

[@jobmera9602]

1 vers 1hour.amazing! here I think the Muslim man is winner. am I right?

[@missyk2199]

Finally, a rational discussion without argumentative preconceived notions and emotionalism.

[@akindelebankole8080]

Without the passions, it is not a Good centered discussion.

[@yusifhuseini]

@@akindelebankole8080 Without the passions, it is a very very Good centered discussion.

[@daniel2milan]

omg this is one of the best discussion i've ever seen

[@mabdel25]

Nice conversation

[@yesyoureright]

excellent talk.

[@fareenahafeel1637]

Fantastic Brother

[@shahrukhmohammed6783]

Shabbir sir u r awesome I'm a big fan Is it possible to speak to you over the phone

[@mabouafaf6215]

Rob is amazing guy ! He is a good listener, a good thinker. He has a good manner and seems to me very modest for a guy has such knowledge. He is not arguing for EGO only. despite he is atheist, he is willing to find the Truth and the meaning for his life. I wish him the best.

[@drzakir123]

thank goodness u have the sense to cut that zombie jay coming and interfering rudely.i am so glad.any way thanks for the nice video. can u do some more videos with shabir on the nature of reality,salat/meditation, personel law in islam. finance and the issue of usury/interest. these issues will be quite interesting. but make sure that questions are rational and full of logic with a very high bar and pls no emotionalism.

[@kalijasin]

He is right. Science originally meant knowledge.

[@Just_logic]

I always looked up to Dr. Jordan Peterson for logic. Now it’s Shabir. Can you imagine if we had 10-20 like him around the world. He is not only logical but really humble. Which is an effective. Combination.

[@anonymousmuslim6812]

other video wit Brother Muhammed, the tall guy with beard. Please make a video with him.

[@snapdragogon69]

Bismallah - The best bit of the koran is how it explains the mystery of why the ant has a thorax. Well, back in the days when the ants talked with humans, one was cheeky to the prophet Isaac (IIRC) so he chopped it with a knife and so it's body is in three segments to this very day.

[@ebadawi2]

Matter of fact, the word used in the verse: "heavens" ("السماوات") it's driven (Arabic language basis) from the verb "سما" which means "all what's above you". So, the words "earth and heavens" are very accurately, the earth you walk and live on it, and everything above you, including sky, clouds, sun, moon, starts, etc. So, the words themselves include "everything" that we aware of and know about it!

[@DetInspectorMonkfish]

"One of the most widespread motifs in creation myths is that of the separation of Heaven (or Sky) and Earth." (From the book 'Creation Myths of the World'). This idea is motif number A625 in S. Thompson's Motif-index of folk-literature. The sun separating from the heavens is equally correct/incorrect as the earth separating from the heavens. Shabir said the former would have been an error, meaning the latter is also an error. They both separated from the heavens in the exact same convoluted sense (or not at all). And whilst we are on the subject of heavens, it is worth remembering that the plural is not just poetic. There are literally seven heavens (motif number A651.1.4). I take it as one of many hints towards the 7 'classical planets' (which includes the sun), occupying celestial spheres, orbitting the earth. This is how Ibn Kathir envisioned the cloving asunder of the earth from the seven heavens: "in the beginning they were all one piece, attached to one another and piled up on top of one another, then he separated them from one another...placing the air between the earth and the lowest heaven."

[@SpeakersCornerUK]

Yes and he tries to use a reductionist approach to reconcile this glaring issue, which I didn't deal with...

[@abdulwahid948]

Salaam bruv. Are you gonna flood videos in like sarwar? if yes then I will subscribe.

[@ItsCWG]

I will add video(s) whenever I go down to Speakers Corner, so yes I intend to regularly upload videos like Sarwar.

[@abdulwahid948]

Is that every Sunday u intend to go?

[@ItsCWG]

Yes I intend to go down most Sunday's

[@yasir4511]

Shabbir nailed the word "faith" beautifully..

[@truth2249]

Yasir Adnan rob is better than annoying Beth cause at least he's allowing him to talk

[@yasir4511]

I must say, gentlemen are looking good listener and well mannered.

[@MrEwido]

well there you have it the proffesor(mr shabir) en the student (mr rob)

[@going2sleep]

Rob just accept God as your Creator and Muhammad as His last Messenger!

[@SpeakersCornerUK]

Yes of course, you presented such a compelling case, how can I not!

[@jxcess3891]

going2sleep Muhammad was a pedophile

[@ardihoti4615]

@@jxcess3891 what that makes you ,hypocrisy at your best what age did your great great grandparents got married

[@jxcess3891]

@@ardihoti4615 Not 6 😂

[@ardihoti4615]

@@jxcess3891 do you know your history, don't throw stones when you live on a glass house

Friends, Reflection Observation Belief Decipher the Signs not the Science

[@mohamedyacoob9105]

Brother shabbir should have mentioned 7 heaven as in (skies ) (space ) within the first heaven first layer of skies out of 7 ..

[@mohammedhijazi6929]

mashallah Shabir is one of the best... Next time Rob will ask for equations to be included in the Quran, so he can accept the verse could be correct.

[@SpeakersCornerUK]

He is definitely one of the best prevaricators at Speakers Corner!

[@mohammedhijazi6929]

Speakers Corner UK Can I consider your statement as a objective evidence regarding Shabir or it is just subjective ?... if it is so, I am not interested to know your opinion about anybody.

[@SpeakersCornerUK]

Look up the definition, watch Shabir's videos and decide for yourself. Seems objective to me...

[@mohammedhijazi6929]

Speakers Corner UK objective to me!!!! the exact meaning of subjectivity.

[@SpeakersCornerUK]

Do you think there are "objective truths" to be known? If so, we can subjectively talk about objective truths, see if that makes sense to you.

[@AyubKhan-md4km]

Dear Rob, what brother Shabir is trying to explain about the word "heavens" in the Quran is, the reference encompasses not only the sun but everything that we are slowly slowly learning about, dark matter, black holes, super nova's white dwarfs, the countless other planets, different size Suns that exist, galaxies space fabric, (possible) worm holes, quasars, etc, etc... that were unknown to mankind at that time and all other finding we are going to probably learn about as time goes by... that all this were all conjoined with earth... so with utmost respect towards to you, I only pray that you won't get more knitpicking with the statement from the Quran. I do believe you to be a fair minded and extremely intelligent and humble individual at speakers corner

[@SpeakersCornerUK]

No my friend, the verses in question do NOT match current science without a great deal of "re-interpretation". If the verses were metaphorical for people of the time to understand and is part of a bigger message in that chapter, it can easily stand the test of time if viewed from that ancient perspective. The moment Muslims attempt to claim these verses are miraculous and match our modern cosmological observations, it becomes trivially easy to show that is NOT the case. And the case Shabir is trying to make would invalid other claims of the Quran. Best to stick with metaphorical meanings and stay clear of any scientific claims...

[@frankwhelan1715]

Ayub Khan,And the writers of the Quran (or the bible) knew NOTHING about any of these things,but they try to shoehorn them into their books retrospectively ,and claim credit for centuries of scientific discoveries.

[@n.a114]

Speakers Corner UK Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (Al-Anbiya 21:30, English - Yusuf Ali) One important point that wasn't really mentioned when the speakers were debating about this verse of the Qur'an is about the different people this book is addressing. It is guidance for billions of people over a long period of time. So the atheist was suggesting this verse should be more detailed but then only the scientists of this day and age would understand it. The illiterate goat herders would be baffled if they were reading a book of science in the 21st century. The way it's written it can be understood by more people right across different era's, different levels of education, different cultures etc etc. Here is another example of the Qur'an giving a scientific statement but using clear symbolism which can be understood by the most simplest of people as well as highly educated of the modern era:- Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things. (An-Noor 24:35, English - Yusuf Ali) THE CREATOR DESCRIBES HIMSELF... so if we were to extract the information and see what is being said would be this:- Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth= ALLAH FIRST MENTIONS HE IS THE SOURCE Niche and within it a Lamp= OUTER BOUNDARY glass as it were a brilliant star= INSIDE IS FULLY LIGHT blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the west= STRUCTURE IN WHICH UNIVERSE IS IN SO THIS IS OUTSIDE OUR UNIVERSE HENCE NOT EAST OR WEST oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it= LIQUID LIGHT WHICH SHINES WITHOUT COMBUSTION Light upon Light!= THE LIQUID LIGHT IS HOLDING EVERYTHING TOGETHER Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things. (An-Noor 24:35, English - Yusuf Ali) *IF WE LOOK AT THE DOUBLE SLIT EXPERIMENT THEN WE CAN GET EVIDENCE OF THIS LIQUID LIGHT *IF WE OBSERVE THE ELECTRONS WHEN FIRED THROUGH THE DOUBLE SLIT ONE BY ONE, WE OBSERVE THAT ALL OF THEM EVENTUALLY MAKE THE SAME PATTERN EVEN IF THEY WERE FIRED SIMULTANEOUSLY SO THIS TELLS US THAT THE CREATOR KNOWS THE FUTURE *THEY REACT TO OUR CONCIOUS MIND AND NOT THE CAMERA *WHEN THEY'RE NOT BEING OBSERVED THEN WE CAN SEE AN INTERFERENCE PATTERN LIKE A LIQUID IF WE LOOK AT QUANTUM ENTANGLEMENT THEN WE CAN SEE THE EVIDENCE OF THE CREATOR ONCE AGAIN BECAUSE NOW WE KNOW THIS LIQUID LIGHT WHICH IS SURROUNDING THE WHOLE UNIVERSE IS ONE. THE TWO ENTANGLED PARTICLES COULD BE ON OPPOSITE SIDES OF THE UNIVERSE BUT STILL RESPOND TO EACH OTHER INSTANTLY. WHICH IS MANY MANY TIMES FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF LIGHT....

[@mikerevs34]

Speakers Corner UK "Best to stick with metaphorical meanings and stay clear of any scientific claims..." No! It irks you and i like that. Qur'an 21 v30 Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe? Qur'an 51 v47And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander. Qur'an 36v40 It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit, is swimming. Big bang, expansion and orbits to ya, enjoy.; )

[@cevin8402]

I personally believe that spirituality does not have to be associated with a religion, there are plenty of cultures and places that believe in souls and spirits but not gods or a god

[@teddybruscie]

When he asks who knee about the Solar system at that time, The Ancient Egyptians likely understood something close to the solar system. Same with the Sumarians and at that time plenty of different cultures such as the Greeks and Romans who of course the Arabs who were sharing all sort of knowledge. So the Quran contains alot of information that scholars at the time already knew. The Spherical Earth idea or theory was a bleeding edge stuff back then. The Egyptians were talking about that as well.

[@isha6804]

My man Shabir

[@asilearnguitar]

Hey Shabir... Jay Smith says hi... he asked why did u run away when he asked you for a debate about the origins of islam??

[@giodidit]

LOL

[@aione5585]

That Muslim man is an absolute genius. I'm Literally blown away Very very very interesting indeed.

[@ebadawi2]

Firstly, "the earth and the heavens" is very simple, correct, accurate statement that man kind can know and be aware of. It includes "everything" he can see and experience. Secondly, it includes the whole materialized world. Thirdly, it's quite obvious that mentioned the "earth" first because it's the planet that we live on it! And "the heavens" includes everything else: sun, moon, stars, galaxies; simply everything! So, what is Rob talking about!? (really don't get it)

[@AStoicMaster]

Shabir is quite impressive & articulate with his position I must say. Too bad Hitchens isn't still around, as I feel Shabir would not get away with some of the special pleading as he did here.

[@AStoicMaster]

aj dj How so?

[@SpeakersCornerUK]

What specifically did you find impressive with Shabir's position, I would be interested to know?

[@cricsaif]

Speakers Corner UK he is among very few of those with whom u can have fruitful discussions. I like ur channel by the way

[@SpeakersCornerUK]

I wish you were right, but after having spoken to him 5 times at least I'm afraid the discussion become long winded and we don't actually reach a conclusion. A shame, because if he answer questions concisely and avoid dubious analogies we 'might' be able to a reasonable discussion. Every time a walked away from a discussion with Shabir I felt is was particularly unfruitful...

[@abuamanah9176]

Speakers Corner UK Rob, just watched your discussion with Subbuoor; you were humbled, very much, and I sincerely hope you stay that way. Instead of trying to make Shabbir look bad you should face him and express yourself in a respectable manner rather than back biting! Oh, stay humble.

[@mikerevs34]

Qur'an 21 v30 Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe? Qur'an 51 v47And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander. Qur'an 36v40 It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit, is swimming. Big bang, expanding universe with orbiting bodies. May Allah guide us all.

[@IUSB28]

Why dint god said it explicitly like what newton or einston did.

[@Sr68720]

maybe because some people don't know that way.

[@haid3r88]

Then we would all be lemmings

[@johnpete2535]

I would like to see Shabir debate TY (hebrew israelite). I heard TY is calling all Muslims to debate.

[@mejamakan3054]

prophet of atheism sam harris admitted it at last

[@cevin8402]

also shabir should know that that's not true that everybody else that has tried it has died maybe the ones you looked at but im pretty sure there has been more than one person since the existence of time that has meditated and eaten right and has felt like they have cured themselves from cancer plenty of people, you cant just look at the ones who died.

[@user-tv1mq1dc5u]

when God say the heavens and the Earth, the word heavens contain the sun and all the planets and the Galaxy's.

[@cistercian0girl]

why didn't he say "Rob, you're an idiot" and walk away?

[@SpeakersCornerUK]

Because he knows I'm not, and what is your evidence that you think I am? Go on produce your evidence, I dare you!

[@cistercian0girl]

anyone who evaluates any scripture from a scientific perspective is by definition an idiot, scripture is not scientific, it was written before the scientific method ever existed. Scripture is to raise a persons mind to understanding of truth, not to make scientific statements, anyone who tries to argue that scripture isn't scientifically correct is an idiot. Vice versa anyone who tries to justify scripture using scientific correlations is an idiot. End of story

[@noelkuruppa8965]

Sam Harris practiced meditation according to Buddhist tradition . that has changed his views. Buddhism is not a religion. Sam Harris likely to follow the Buddhist tradition. Shabir knows but he did not admit to it.

[@bobfield6493]

Rob, mate you must improve the format of your videos. As a method of enquiry, as viewers we expect more robust challenges to religious assertions. You handled the question of the inception of the universe woefully and you appeared tactically unprepared. You also allowed your subject to hijack most of the video. Overall your performance was quite poor

[@SpeakersCornerUK]

Thanks for your assessment, it sounds like you have some expertise, perhaps you could some of that? Have you visited and discussed at Speakers Corner or anywhere else which is NOT a structured and prepared debating environment? What sort of "robust challenge" would satisfy you?

[@fasahm642]

If it said the Sun and the heavens it would be wrong because the Earth is a part of our solar systemI And was built from clunking together of gas and debris like that all the planets in our solar System and intern came from the heavens

[@KhanivoreQniba]

Subjective onterpretation, that's all it is.

[@DoctorKillamassaLOGS]

ask Shabir something and he will ask you something...he never explains anything he believes and you have people in the comments acting like this man is some kind of great speaker, he is not deep at all.

[@SpeakersCornerUK]

Yep, and they try to defend this sort of behaviour and make excuses for it. Do wonder about the state of some human evolution at times...

[@water8773]

Okay :)

[@alzarinkhan750]

Who is this guy? Shabir ????

[@wachm3]

He is one of the few individuals that you can have a rational debate with.

[@carlosruiz2117]

But having d sun light in d face he don't see it. Jesus said Iam d way d truth & d life NO ONE COMES TO D FATHER BUT BY ME" --THAT'S COMPLETELY TRUE OR COMPLETELY FALSE

[@carlosruiz2117]

aj dj THIS MUSLIMS CLEARLY PROOF 2 BE A DECEIVER TRYING ALL D TIME 2 CUT EVERY EXPLANATION OF D CHRISTIAN BOY & TRYING 2 PUT HIS WORDS IN MOUTH OF HIM. CLEARLY A DEMAGOGIC. HE DON LET IT TALK 2 FORCE 2 CONVERSATION 2 HIS OWN INTERPRETATION. U CAN NOT UNDERSTAND BIBLE OR GOSPEL BY D GUIDANCE & INTERPRETATION OF A WARRIOR LEADER & A FALSE PROPHET. DEMAGOGIC DECEIVER

[@wachm3]

Carlos Ruiz You SHOUT so you must be a person we should believe.

[@tillwemeetagainwgaca5802]

+Carlos Ruiz how is he a deceiver? i don't see him preaching but debating.

[@duncanstewart7271]

According to theists, In the beginning God created the Heaven's (supernatural place where god resides) and Earth (Dirt), there is no evidence that there is a supernatural dimension to reality, therefore the Earth (natural)and the Heaven's (supernatural) couldn't have been together. But according to astrophysicist's the Earth and the planets (Heavens) within the solar system formed from the solar disc like all other star systems in the Milky way and in every other Galaxy. If you run the universal expansion backwards you get to a point where everything, including space itself, is compressed into a Plank size volume where our understanding of physics breakdown completely, it appears that everything is converted into pure energy, with no spacial or temporal dimensions. To date we have no other examples of nothing or anything like this state. So in conclusion the universe existed in a different form to what it is today. No need for a God.

[@IUSB28]

what is heaven.. if you say sun, or mater or space that is real and realised but you say heaven, what is heaven, you mean paradise where houris are there.

[@ronmc4554]

funny shabir refers to Sam Harris, you'll never have his smarts.

[@mikejones3863]

Heavens (SAMAWAT) is the word used by arabs 1400 years ago to describe what is beyond the earth it is what we call SPACE today so God revealed this verse using the word that arabs were familiar with.

[@SpeakersCornerUK]

Yeah so nothing to do with the Big Bang which is what we would expect of a 1400 year old book.

[@mikejones3863]

I wouldn't jump to conclusion this quickly, (SAMAWAT) Can also be understood as the universe. But again the arabs didn't know much if any about space or universe. Quran 21:30 is mentioning the big bang but in order to understand it's true meaning you must piece the correct definition of the words. There's another 2 key words in the same verse of quran 21:30 the Arabic words ratq and fataq are used. The word ratq can be translated into “entity” “sewn to” “joined together” or “closed up”. The meaning of these translations all circulate around something that is mixed and that has a separate and distinct existence. The verb fataq is translated into “We unstitched” “We clove them asunder” “We separated” or “We have opened them”. These meanings imply that something comes into being by an action of splitting or tearing apart. The sprouting of a seed from the soil is a good example of a similar illustration of the meaning of the verb fataq.

[@IUSB28]

shabir referring a fake book that doesnot exist

[@najkhan3114]

you disappointed me here rob you could have argued better now when quran says heavens and earths were joined together and when look at the expansion model it is quite the opposite lets look at expansion model, universe came into existence 14.6 billion years ago so heavens came in to existence earth came in to existence about 4 billion years ago and it is not separated from heaven its molecules were not even formed when heavens were formed now how would someone it was separated and if universe is heavens then earth is part of the universe and same time space continuum

[@SpeakersCornerUK]

Yeah let him off, I was too accommodating... I won't make that mistake again!

[@00Maida]

I think you both need to actually listen to what shabir is saying, he already answered what you are claiming Naj Khan, listen to it again.

[@carlosruiz2117]

Who was Muhammad? How he convince the people of Mecca & Medina? Was he a follower of Jesus? Yes or No? He was saved by himself? How could u be saved in islam conditions? Can Muhammad save U? Allah? How, what r the conditions to be saved in Coran? Kissing the black stone in Kaaba, how can help someone at the sight of God? Is not idolatry? Where this stone came & why Muhammad choose to let it in Kaaba instead of the other idols that were with it? Can u explain us how Abraham & Ismail built Zam zam & Kaaba when they lived 1,000 miles to the north? Why they r not mentioned in the Bible that register their lives & nether in the secular historical literature before 3rd century AC? EXPLAIN US WHY WE SHOULD LET JESUS BESIDE & CONTINUE WITH A DEAD WARRIOR ON MECCA & KAABA? HOW MANY MIRACLES MUHAMMAD DID THAT I'M SUPPOSE TO FOLLOW HIM & KILL THOSE THAT DOESN'T CONTINUE IN THE ISLAMIC FAITH? WHY I SHOULD BE SO SURE OF ISLAM WHEN MUHAMMAD NEVER GIVE A PROMISE OF ETERNAL LIFE AS JESUS DID? WHO REALLY IS JESUS & WHO REALLY WAS MUHAMMAD? WHO REALLY IS ALLAH & WHY THE HISTORY IDENTIFIED IT WITH CRESCENT MOON, SAME SYMBOL WELL SPREAD IN ISLamic world? IF I FOLLOW MUHAMMAD, HE COULD SAVE ME FROM SINS? ALLAH COULD? HOW? EXPLAIN WELL PLEASE. CONVINCE US WITHOUT ANY DOUBT, BECAUSE HERE MORE THAT UR ETERNITY IS ORE ETERNITY TOO.

[@albertoRODRIGUEZ-rt6ot]

Qur'an 3:54-And they (the unbelievers) planned to deceive, and Allah planned to deceive (the unbelievers), and Allah is the best of deceivers. Qur'an 7:99-Are they then safe from Allah's deception? No one feels safe from Allah's deception except those that shall perish. Qur'an 8:30-And (remember) when the unbelievers plotted deception against you (O Muhammad), to imprison you, or kill you, or expel you. They plotted deception, but Allah also plotted deception; and Allah is the best of deceivers And the devil allah of this world who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

[@kennethwhite8045]

Atheist Rob initially said, "The Sun and the Earth."... and of course Shabir would have nailed him with the same reasoning (i.e. in terms of our universe is that all that there is? (i.e. our sun and earth.). But, either way, the Quran got it right.

[@SpeakersCornerUK]

What did the Quran get right exactly? Can you be more specific?

[@subsonzeroson1560]

how come none of u EVER condemns what happened here in Bosnia? How come none of u ever even mentiones it?! Are u ashamed of asking Christian brothers and sisters to say : SORRY! FOR WHAT THEY DID !?iT IS CAUSE THEY R NOT AND THEY WOULD DO IT AGAIN! And u all know it! Laa il lahe il Allah

[@zakirnaikisaliarmo9192]

Shabir please read the hadiths and the koran in your own language before speaking in public again. Your knowl;edge of islam is worse than my bro Zakir!

[@saeedkagzi8792]

Brother shabir bang on right...fantastic

[@saeedkagzi8792]

Rob needs to educate him self and open his mind.these kind of people will always deny regardless if God presented him self.

[@SpeakersCornerAnalysed]

_"Rob needs to educate him self "_ On what exactly? Cosmology? Islam? Koran? _"open his mind"_ Why? Should a god be able to impress anyone, regardless of mind status? _"shabir bang on right"_ I did not see anything he said that was correct. Can you show me what he said that was right?

[@hoosainkhan3168]

once again Rob showing hislack ofknowledge an ignorance . Rob likes to ask questions but never declares his position. when Rob was quedtioned about theso called inconsistency with the expansionary model, all he can argue is about symantics rather than an actual point of view

[@SpeakersCornerUK]

What question did I not answer?

[@hoosainkhan3168]

Speakers Corner UK shabir asked u what problem u have wit the stmt in the Quran about the heavens and earth were cloved asunder. your argument is that you would have used the sun and the heavens Shabir rightly put u in your place and showed you that by not using tue sun it actually proves the correctness of the stmt as it refers not only to the solar system.

[@hoosainkhan3168]

shabir continually asked you what is wrong with the stmt about the heavens and earth were joined together and you continuously waffle and dance around the specific question that Shabir asked you.

[@hoosainkhan3168]

Shabir asked you wheter to confidently make a claim that a stmt can be better written than you would needto know everything about a subject matter, you once again showed ur igorance by saying no

[@SpeakersCornerUK]

"what is wrong with the stmt about the heavens and earth were joined together" I think I was clear in saying the heavens and earth were NOT split asunder as this directly contradicts our understanding of the origin of the universe.

[@IUSB28]

what is heaven, it doesnot exist..

[@jochemlambers]

Heavens and the Earth, and then clove them asunder. Earth is 4 billion years old, Heavens (space) 13 billion year. Checkmate, quran incorrect. next please

[@jochemlambers]

not even touching upon flying donkeys or that the Sun sets in a pool of mud

[@SamsungGalaxy-nd6po]

Moron,next please.

[@jochemlambers]

Exactly, but they keep holding on to their fantasy

[@SamsungGalaxy-nd6po]

Time did not exist. Symbolic interpretation is the way to go Mr Robot like the Quran talks how some people who Worship their intellect."Donkeys carrying Books" is their discription.

[@SamsungGalaxy-nd6po]

The Earth is a Pool of mud.

[@abulmaarri849]

@Rob, mate, you fell in a trap called Shabir-shuffle. So many mistakes he made and you kept on letting him lose. Right when he says something like 'it is open to interpretation' you should have stopped, because, in his mind, a priori, he has decided that Qur'an has to be right and it is we, the interpreters, who could be mistaken. Now, there's no point having a discussion with someone who just isn't willing to accept that his position might be incorrect. As Plato said, before you begin a discussion/debate lay down the definitions that you agree on. Also ask a question like 'if you could be wrong about your worldview and if so what would falsify your position?' What does 'heaven' mean in the Qur'an. What does 'Earth' mean in the Qur'an. What does 'joined together' mean according to Qur'an. As long as you don't clarify these there will always be a wiggle room for liars like Shabir. Btw. heavens (if it means rest of the space other than the Earth) and Earth were one and are still one, Earth is not a separate entity floating in a hypothetical ether.