Don't WASTE $3000 on this Nonsense!

[@SpectreSoundStudios]

Almost 50% of Spectre Sound viewers are NOT subsribed. I need your help to grow this channel! Please hit the Subscribe button!

[@MrUltraworld]

Made in the US tubes?

[@bobonilla8443]

@@MrUltraworld /real deal?/thanx 4.D Fyi.....

[@Tixoxod102]

Maybe if You take two 5150s, result be the same. For ex - because of components tolerance.

[@tortillaman2491]

Subscribe to these nuts.

[@AmiGuitar]

subsribed

[@Dave-Rough-Diamond-Dunn]

No chance of that, I'm too poor to get ripped off! 😥

[@Funkybassuk]

Legendary comment

[@adhaskym.a9536]

Same here.

[@destroyerdestroy87]

The IRS agent with AR 15s enters chat: are you sure about that??

[@VPROXE-HELLRAISER]

Welcome to the club

[@donbishop6994]

This comment wins the internet for the day. I wish I'd have thought of it myself. Cheers 🍻

[@vmx23]

Even the amp designer James Brown has gone on record many times that the non block letter is the exact same circuit as the block letters and sound the same yet people are still buying into the myth of block letters being a holy grail.

[@tortillaman2491]

James Brown made amps? I thought he just sang the funk.

[@kosmo926]

Transformers were different in them and Peavey only realized this when making the infective head. The news has only come to light this year in a few other youtube videos.

[@trevor4533]

@@kosmo926 No. The transformers between the Block letter, Signature, and 6505 all use the same exact transformer. The manufacturer of the output transformer changed at some point after it became the 6505. Edit: the specs remained exactly the same after the manufacturer change.

[@thelefthandofcreation1617]

@@tortillaman2491Why do you think they called him "the hardest working man in show business"??

[@rosskrause3926]

And besides just the Block lettering and the 2nd version the EVH signature on the front panel..James Brown said they are the same but some of the earliest block letter amps had the Peavey branded power tubes and they started using whatever they could get when the Peavey labeled tubes started running out...I sold my EVH signature version right before Eddie died for $575 and it was in about perfect condition...then I looked a few places online after he passed and saw some prices as high as $15-$1600 dollars.

[@reallyniceaudio]

I think if you did the same experiment with 2 5150's you might find similar results. Don't forget there are tolerances in all the components in the circuit. So even a slight change in tolerances especially with hi gain, a slight mismatch in drive levels can produce more pronounced null test. A better experiment would be to send the source to both heads and then bring them back to the DAW and phase flip the second head. Then you can adjust the knobs to see how much you can null them out. I bet you could get better null results this way.

[@slaughterhammer]

Wanted to say the same. Especially the potis are notorious for having bad tolerances.

[@stefanwerner5799]

That would be my guess too. The frequency plot between the 5150 and the 6505, those differences can be easily be explained by tolerances in coupling capacitors and would be found just as well between two 5150s that rolled off the assembly line on the same day.

[@kennethc2466]

Anyone with any Electrical Engineering background know th old saying, 100 pennies equal a dollar. Let's say those pennies are components. Now, take each penny and +/- 10% from each and every one. Now, a 'dollar' is anywhere from 90 cents, to a buck ten. Nearly all production amps use CHEAP AS DIRT 10%+/- tolerance components, including the power transformers. No two amps can sound the same, as it's impossible by those tolerances alone. My marine transducers have to use +/-1% components, or by 2000 feet of water, I'd have an inaccurate reading for the tolerance the mappers want. The oscilloscope doesn't lie, yet youtubers do. Everyday.

[@samp3413]

Capacitors in the 5150 would have also drifted over time compared to the 6505, no doubt this would have also contributed to the differences observed on the scope.

[@jordanburrill7182]

It's not just manufacturers that have to suppress the desire to cheapen products. Parts suppliers have to do the same, but are harder to catch cheating.

[@jcrosslin8]

Glenn, bongs don't make people stupid, the power of suggestion makes people stupid. I've noticed that most of the guys I know that aren't great players and/or songwriters are the ones that have their self worth tethered to the gear they own/have access to.

[@DamageInc86]

They sure don't help the situation.

[@FrankiePhoenix]

I had my eyes closed while listening to the test and heard no difference in the full mix. Glad we have all these tools to help tweak the extra, barely audible sounds that can muddy the mix. Thanks for doing the test!

[@alrecks619]

at the end of the day, it's how they sound in context that matters.

[@smashallpots1428]

our eye lids are very powerful tools i wish more people knew how to use them

[@Lieutenant_Dude]

Same here. Particularly in the full mix.

[@AdaptivePhenix]

I had my eyes closed and heard horrible farting sounds. Kinda expecting guitar sounds I guess.

[@smashallpots1428]

@@AdaptivePhenix You might want to get that check out by a doctor.

[@A.J.99]

All the electronic components like resistors and condensers have some value tolerance (5% typically), so even two amps of the same model can sound slightly different. Metallica's sound engineer told that the time they used the Mesaboogie tube amps for the live gigs they had two identical amp sets and they still sounded slightly different, so the mixing engineer had to tweak the settings on the mixing console depending on which of the two amp sets was being used for the gig.

[@milamber319]

yeah i was going to say the same thing. Manufacturing tolerances are a thing, thats why you need things like paired mics because they need to sort the production into pairs because they can vary quite a bit. They don't manufacture them at the same time perfectly matched, they measure a bunch of already produced ones to find ones that are very close and sell those as paired. any pair is still going to be slightly different from each other but very different from another pair. All electronics and even all other manufactured good are like that.

[@kitko33]

Which is why today Metallica uses Fractals live. Same sound, every night.

[@KennethRrvik]

Is this slightly different noticable in a properly conducted blind test? As an electronic engineer, my opinion is that if so, fire your circuit designer. He knows not what he does.

[@milamber319]

@@KennethRrvik I mean, you heard the initial playback. Without the mirror tests and close spectral analysis you wouldn't be able to tell. And on gear that is 40 year old designs and manufactured 3 decades apart if they are that close we can put that down to manufacturing tolerances. Perhaps some wear.

[@johnarcher9480]

@@KennethRrvik The difference in the tubes alone could be enough to have those differences. Tubes age.

[@travisspaulding2222]

Yeah, instead of paying an inflated price for the 5150 (either BL or Script) I just went ahead and got the 5153 50 watt Stealth. I have not regretted my purchase at all. If someone needs the 5150 badge that desperately, the EVH amps are fantastic. I got mine for the better clean channel and the built in midi for channel switching.

[@x3a3x3]

The aging and tolerance on all individual electronic components could account for the small sonic difference. I bet if you test 3 or 4 original 5150 against each other you will see some difference too based on usage and tolerances

[@ericmacewen6232]

100%. I had a block letter and a couple script logos. I liked the block letter I had. I liked the script logo more. It was less noisy. My current script logo is excellent.

[@claytongouin5605]

Interesting results. I'm not an electrical engineer either, but I suppose that parts tolerances or component drifting due to age could partially explain the differences you found. You might find similar differences in two 6505's or two 5150 block letters just due to a +/- tolerance difference in components. But in the full band mix I did not hear a enough of a difference to think that the 6505 could not hold a candle to the 5150 signature. I'm still with you on the fact that if you want to make the 5150/6505 sound different, change you cab, speakers, mic type, and mic placement. Either way, the mix sounded wicked and that is the most important factor. Not the brand name or the badge.

[@xwasssabix2347]

I suspect in this case the transformer actually is the largest factor. In tube amplifiers, especially guitar amplifiers, very little negative feedback is used that could linearize both the distortion characteristics and the frequency response of the output transformer. Transformers need a fuckton (that's the technical word for it, I believe) of iron if they are to produce a flat frequency response, particularly in the low end, and guitar amplifiers tend to be very undersized due to the very high cost of the transformer (by far one of the most expensive parts in an amp). Undersizing the transformer also makes it much more likely to saturate and distort. The transformer also reflects the impedance of the speakers to the output tubes, presenting to them a multiplied version of their impedance filtered though the characteristics of the transformer, making the transformer highly interactive with the speakers and their frequency and physics dependent impedance, which incidentally is also what makes speaker changes in a guitar setup even more impactful in guitar tone than they already are in a hifi setup. Many solid state guitar amps use current feedback through the speakers to achieve a similar reactivity with the speakers to what a tube amp with an output transformer does. All that being said, I agree that in a band mix, the difference isn't very significant, and both sounded fucking great.

[@flektra175]

Also the difference in 2nd & 4th harmonic distortion may be as simple as one amp having slightly mismatched power tubes.

[@goodheartmedia]

I avoided the whole issue by buying a used Bugera 6262 Infinium (6505+ clone) for a few hundred. Swapped V2 & V3 tubes with 12AY7's to tame the gain a little and I can use this amp for anything from classic rock to metal.

[@docjikar]

I would LOVE to see a comparison like that between the 5150, 6505, and the Joyo Vivo. Wouldn't even have to be a long video, just a "hey look at this graph" sort of thing. Love the video, keep up the good work!

[@pb25193]

Finally a modded vivo

[@GlennJimenez]

Joyo vivo sounds like a fun weekend

[@NuclearHeadshot]

Featuring Nickelback

[@prehistoricpoodle]

Then there should also be the "modern" 5150 III from the EVH brand, as it's the one the VIVO seems to try replicating (white color).

[@docjikar]

@prehistoricpoodle Agreed.

[@cjhawkins1984]

I just picked up a 94 "Script" for $1000 USD. It came with a road case, and is in damn near mint condition. Currently running it through a v30 cab. It sounds immense.

[@DrBRockstar2000]

I have a 1995 Peavey 5150 half-stack (straight 4x12" cab with the Sheffield 1200s that ABSOLUTELY SUUUUUUUUCK) -- I tried it through a friend's Greenback-loaded Marshall 4x12 cab, INSTANT '90s Machine Head tone

[@gregfender]

Wow, I’m surprised two real amps could sound so similar even with the same circuitry. I feel like this definitely puts the debate to rest. Thank you for this test, Glenn!

[@heoftheunlight]

Comparing the 5150 signature vs. another 5150 signature in a null test just the same way would be interesting. I'd bet measurements would diverge about as much as with the new 6505. Probably because of component tolerances, especially with the transformers.

[@PetiteLameque]

I had to swap my amp’s tubes because the old ones failed. I also bought a used Jensen speaker to try out. For the price the used speaker costed me vs. the price of new tubes (the cheapest JJ’s I could find), I’ll invest faster in a bunch of speaker swaps before I invest in a tube swap just for fun! The speaker swap made a HUGE difference! Thank you Glen!

[@bobmartino8073]

Great video. Both incredible amps. I have owned both and neither of them ever let me down. I currently have an EVH Iconic and it stands up to both of these every day.

[@robertkidd6270]

I've had the heads...but prefer the combo which cost me £400 and kept it for over 20yrs now... I never buy new these days ..ever! So yeh even second hand prices are a joke these days...you're spot on here buddy

[@Nugmania1]

Bud, how you manage to be entertaining and annoying at the same time, lol , that is a true gift. This vid was very informative, and exposes that some companies will only think of the bottom line. Toddles for now

[@jasondesselles9168]

Hartley Peavey says guitar players want to believe in magic. This is the drive behind the block letter craze and vintage guitars and amps fetching new car prices. As someone who was alive in the 70's I can say with confidence things were not built better back then, and even if it was, it's 50 years old now. Technology and manufacturing improvements have come a long way.

[@rram992]

If tubes=better sound, then a set of brand new pickups makes me a better guitar player 🤓

[@johndoyer]

Hold on a minute. Don't they? 🤯

[@BXGuitars]

I'd love to see you do this with two actual block letters or two 1992 originals. Let's see what the tolerances are of the same amp because I think that would lead us to even more answers. Great video and nice to see something that's quantifiable put in front of people.

[@leondantas]

I think this is the kind of difference expected between two amps even at the same model. There is always some difference on components like pots, resistors and transformers. You should try the same test with two amps of the same model and maybe the same year to make sure. Great video Glenn

[@kevindaoust]

Slightly off topic, but if I may offer something about tubes I've learned from experience. The only time I felt tubes made a difference is if the sets you use have a matched plate current or not, particularly in the power section. Many years ago, I replaced the power tubes in a Reverend Hellhound with a set that I got from the store (just any EL84 they had in stock - same brand mind you). The sound didn't necessarily change, but the response and feel did. After noticing this, I bought a matched set directly from Reverend and the original feel and response came back. Another caveat was that I was not playing anything high-gain (the Hellhound couldn't keep up with that), so I don't know if matched or unmatched plate voltages would make a difference in a metal context. Anyways, food for thought...

[@ivanbrasla]

Isn't that done by turning a screw on the inside? I thought matching plate voltages was part of regular amp maintenance and something to do after buying new tubes, exactly because of what you're mentioning

[@kevindaoust]

@@ivanbrasla Yeah, that's biasing an amp. I'm not sure if its the same thing. Maybe someone who knows definitively can chime in?

[@thomasnynas3151]

@@kevindaoustBiasing an amp means finding the optimal operating environment for the tube pair (very simplified version). Matched tubes will react to bias in the same manner. Random tubes may not. Think about it like having equal tire pressure on your car.

[@GTX1123]

I had the block lettered combo version 11 yrs ago. Don't know how old it was because I didn't have it that long. When I tried it out, I played a strat through it and couldn't believe how it nailed SRV tones so I bought it. The main reason I got rid of it was because even with wheels on it, it was backbreaking to move in and out of the car.

[@reyalejandrocalafellvaldes9640]

Carcass Heartwork tone is a pinnacle of death metal tone.

[@PooNinja]

🤘🏽

[@aeroragesys]

Hi Glenn! Love your efforts to bust false guitar myths and protect consumers. I have a new video suggestion that falls into the "tone is in the hands" debate. Soft vs. Hard picking. Tied to the notion of "heaviness" of metal, it always seems like in metal it's generally cool to say that you pick hard. People argue that picking harder sounds better, especially in genres like thrash metal, but this advice both feels relative (what even is "hard" picking?) and there are many guitarists in metal that seem to pick very lightly and yet their sound still sounds huge (Bill Kelliher of Mastodon comes to mind). I know you did a video 9 years ago about tone is in the hands. I think your new video should do a similar set of experiments but this can focus on hard vs. soft picking. A) What does it mean to pick hard? (Is it deep picking depth? How tightly you hold the pick? How wide your hand motions are? Or how large the sound wave that is produced is?) B) Between two great guitarists where one is clearly a harder picker, is there any recorded difference playing the same track? C) If there is a sound difference, can you as a producer fiddle with amp or EQ settings to make the soft picking sound the same as hard picking? Might be a long-shot, but It'd be cool if you could do this test with Matt Heafy and Corey Beaulieu of Trivium since they're both great, play thrash-inspired metal, and Matt has publicly teased Corey about being a light picker. Could be a great interview/experiment video. Thanks!!

[@aeroragesys]

Also, ideally don't let them use a different pick.

[@kennethnegy9467]

Seconded! I would love to see a video on this. I've seen other guitar players claim this, too (Jens Larsen) and a different KZbin producer claim that you need to pick harder to give producers more sonic content to work with, yet there is also contradictory advice suggesting picking with less tension (lighter?) will lead to more speed and fluidity. So which is it??

[@kennethnegy9467]

Dave Davidson of Revocation also claims you need to "dig in" but plays so fast it's hard to believe he's picking hard as well (he uses an EVH 5150 III).

[@themadmattster9647]

Colin Richardson did some of the greatest guitar tones ever in extreme Metal. I also think his work on Napalm Death's Utopia Banished is under-appreciated.

[@youropionmattersnot]

I would think that taking opinions on "sound" or "tone" from people that play metal through 100 watt amps and 4 12 cabinets at high volume would be highly suspect. 😅 This from a former 100 watt half stack guy that played metal in the 90's. My 17 watt handwired tube combo and my pedal board does everything I need at home in the studio and on stage.

[@ViciousAudioTX]

I’ve owned like 5 or 6 different block letters and they all sounded different there was 1 that stood out hands down better than the rest

[@robertmills2058]

Yup,I've owned many,unfortunately I been trying to replace one that was stolen that just sounded much better than any of the other ones,I still remember my settings and none of the other have been set even close,I have turn the presence up past 7,the one that was stolen if you went past 7 it was was to much.

[@screamengine]

In 2013 I picked one up for $120, original 212 combo. Dude had it sold already for $100 and I offered him an extra 20 if he'd cancel the other sale. It wasn't pumping sound because of a blown noise circuit, despite being very low hours. Got it repaired, cleaned up for $300. So for $420 I got a kickass amp that was hardly used at all.

[@richy749]

Glenn you’ve saved me so much grief over the years. I can’t thank you enough for the work you do! Amazing stuff man!

[@drewgraysonxoxopanda]

I just got a 1992 Peavey 5150 blockletter amp. Peavey Serial number lookup verfied. Block letter 5150 were made from 1992-94. 1995 was EVH signature models.

[@IndependenceGuitar]

Cool comparison. I love every iteration of the amp. Any differences are lost in the drums and bass, and they all are monsters.

[@alrecks619]

it's amazing how a volume produced amp like the 5150 gets bumped up like bananas in price because of a famous artist's name being put on it.

[@SpectreSoundStudios]

And yet a used 6505 does not. Same amp

[@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623]

Nah, I am pretty much used to that by now. Once you've built a Klon clone for $25 in parts using the same circuit and parts that the original used, yet people are willing to pay more then a $1000 for an original, you know that guitar players are idiots. Only 1 grade above audiophiles in being gullible.

[@mhsandifer]

​@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 Don't forget the special cables.

[@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623]

@@mhsandifer 🤣🤣🤣

[@mattmanley7118]

Branding at its finest

[@tlepsh_band]

I think the difference is negligible at this point. Having a block letter 5150 is just a collectors items kind of thing cause it’s old. I remember comparing the 6505 with one, and thinking they were identical. I went the 6505 cause it’s simply newer.

[@pb25193]

The distortion graph is the amount of harmonic content introduced as a function of frequency of the fundamental

[@matthewguzman7038]

This is awesome. I remember this argument. Bought signature in 2009 for $400. Lo and behold it sounded exactly the same as a block letter in a Mesa rectifier cabinet. I still stand by you only Need to amps. 5150 and a fender twin reverb case closed

[@datajake1999]

I am not a guitar player or even a qualified audio engineer, and I still got a kick out of this video. I enjoy scientific content like this, keep it up!

[@porcelainthunder2213]

A lot of artists don’t even use the gear they endorse, especially in the studio. They go so far as to put different speakers in the cabs, use a different amp behind the stacks on stage, or even not use physical gear at all and use something like Kemper. Besides, the brown sound was better.

[@buzzedalldrink9131]

i bought a demo model 5150 II over 15 years ago for $650. Its mint good to know I get get my money back and then some😊

[@ZacharyMoonshine]

Man this makes me wanna go get some greenbacks more than anything. That sound on burn my eyes is insane!

[@datass666]

IMO Machine Head have almost always had The best guitar tone amongst their peers from the era... though Exodus are not far behind

[@brandonbryson3317]

It is true lol I owned a block letter just for the sake of owning one. Got it for around $850, which is a good price in todays market. It sounded no better than a stock 6505…in fact I think my block letter sounded a little worse. Lmao I went and got it tuned up and retubed and biased and it sounded better for sure. But then I compared both the 5150 block and my 6505 to a EVH 50 watt stealth and it smoked them both! Sold the Peaveys and still have the evh.

[@rosskrause3926]

Yep the 50 watt Stealth head is awesome !

[@Metaljohn666]

I have a Laney vh100r and I compared it to a 50 watt evh stealth n I liked the sound from the Laney more

[@brandonbryson3317]

@@Metaljohn666 lol I’ve actually kind of shifted my stance. I ended up getting a EVH stealth 100 and started gigging again…I noticed the stealth was great at home, but seemed overly smooth and lacking in some key mod range frequencies in a band setting. Basically, I was getting drowned out by my co guitarists amp, which he built himself as like a modified Mesa dual Rec type circuit. Picked up a Peavey 6505+ and I could hear myself again. It wasn’t a volume thing at all…the evh stealth just doesn’t stand out all that well.

[@Metaljohn666]

Have u tried the peavey jsx. The ultra channel with a Mxr 10 band n ts9 sounds sick.

[@TiberiusWallace]

I love myths like this, it implies an emergency meeting where all the electrical designers, factory floor foremen, acquisitions and upper management all sat round a table and said "Look, because we're changing the font of the die cut logo we need to come up with an entirely different circuit." "Why?!" "Because of Reverb and guitar forums". "Say no more, boss!"

[@Nightdare]

"Let's make it so that we sell the new faceplate models at half of what the old amps are doing 2nd hand"

[@TheAlaskanFlondr]

I'd like to see you get more 5150s and 6505s and test them because I've always heard people say their (insert amp) sounds different

[@MarRecusable]

Graphs!!! Finally!!! More graphs please!!!! Thanks for the content! I got bummed out about guitar tech since I studied electrical engineering. I had never seen a producer's take on the issues that bothered me.

[@BillyRiffinDaTube]

These amps were selling for like $500 bucks 10 years ago, $700 in mint condition. Fantastic amps but not even worth $1500. They were like $1000 brand new. $1299 is fair for the reissue though.And your right, the original cab was the worst sounding cab I ever heard.

[@MyNameIsBucket]

Just dropped money on a 5150 earlier this year and it's money well-spent. It's currently rocking a Hercules adapter, Adlib clone, and DOS 5.0 on the C: drive.

[@ithemba]

Wasn't that also the argument for the EVH 5150 iconic? That it was the original transformer? The Iconic is still a good deal cheaper than the peavey 92 original - and given the not-so-great reputation that the remnants of what once was Peavey have, I see no argument for buying this over either the EVH iconic or just a random used 6505 for sub 500 bucks.

[@bassinbob1965]

Hi. Im Rob. I’m not a technical guy but I know what sounds good. I really appreciate your time in making and posting these videos. I’ve learned a great deal from you and I just wanted to thank you. Rock On

[@alanerpington5698]

I'd be interested to see this repeated with two brand new amps of the same model, just to see if there's any measurable sample variation, and how it compares to the measurement differences of a new vs old amp.

[@Rysk12]

I was going to ask the same thing. Could there be a very slight difference in the amp settings due to the dials not being 100% the same, like one dial set to 5 on one amp and just slightly off 5 on the other?

[@bBersZ]

Picked one up in 04, banged it around for years and once dialed in it never lost it's tone, tubes or spring. Loved that head.

[@Rev-It-Up]

This amp would not exist as it is without the Soldano SLO's (and internal circuits) that Eddie used powering his 5150 cabs during Sammy Hagar days.

[@jaysonlavie603]

Would love to see a shootout of a “non metal” tube amp with high gain pedals vs dedicated high gain amp through the same cab. Bunch of contenders for the low gain amp. For current production would love to see the mig-50 or one of the higher wattage fenders ( like the hot rod deluxe which is pretty ubiquitous)

[@reverendg5937]

Glen love your show and attitude. I laugh so hard listening to you, it's the pick me up I need every day. Don't change a thing and keep rocking Brother!!!!!

[@sqlb3rn]

Only collectors give a shit about this. As someone who cares about a reliable modern high gain tone, I wouldn't pay more than $500 for a 30 year old Peavey.

[@criticalbasstheory]

I absolutely love your technical analysis part of this video. Comparing sonic profiles, inverting phase between the reamped recordings, all of it. Well done. I'll be using some of these techniques myself when doing A/B comparisons between amps and sims.

[@e-henne]

My current EVH 5150 Iconic combo sounds epic and was less than $700. I can't imagine paying $3000 for ANY amp, because no one will even care but me!

[@GetOffMyyLawn]

I definitely smell more ambiance from the original tubes. There is an openness to the aura from the tube glow that is hard to deny. I also believe the copper wires from the 1990's had more free room for the electrons to move through.

[@bigmike2149]

Bought a block letter for $450 in Sacramento, dropped another $175 on a fresh set of JJ 6l6s and 12ax7s. Ran some De-Oxit on the jacks and pots… 7 years later still running strong for an amp built in ‘92.

[@danwilhite]

Still have my block letter 5150. Got it at a pawn shop around '94 for about $350 I believe. Still rocks! Think I'll keep it.

[@baneverything5580]

Man, I`m glad I only play acoustic guitars. Our band`s all Peavey setup in the early 90s (before the fire...besides the Ampeg bass amp), had a crystal clear pristine wonderful sound. When I let other drummers sit in for me I was blown away by how great they sounded. Not sure how old our stuff was but it was a beat up collection of what we could scrounge up. Hartley Peavey was always good to musicians too. I respected them a lot.

[@TwoandaHater]

Could those small differences, really be due to the dials not being exactly in the same spot on the amps? You can probably get it close but being exact there across them all seems impossible.

[@rdmoonie]

Glenn, I have a interesting request for you. Could you check out the St.Louis Music brand of amps and cabs ala Crates and AMPEGs like VH-140c and the GX-130C, or at least do some sort of video general amp gear which was thought as garbage by the masses? These amps along with the rise of old skool death metal is slowly gaining interest, at least in my eyes.

[@michaelgallegos8811]

I have a 91 crate gx160 combo, once in awhile I will plug in to a 4x12 cab not the single speaker as a head and it sounds pretty death metal .

[@davedecker1725]

No Glen don't Ampeg VH 140c is hard enough to find

[@rdmoonie]

Doesn't have to be that perticular, just would be cool if he'd come around one or the other similar ones.@@davedecker1725

[@KiltedTupiniquin]

Components have tolerance margins. You probably get tone shifts from the same amp from two different production batches.

[@zerstaerker]

I was checking out an IBM 5150 recently, but it sounded way off for my taste.

[@SethWorsham]

Great video! I have the signature 5150, for just over 23 years now (owned 2, 1st one was stolen). It's my favorite amp ever, nothing has even come close for me. I also see asshats charging stupid prices (or attempting to) for guitars that aren't rare at all...like over 3 grand for original Peavey Wolfgangs and over 8 grand for Ibanez JEM 77FPs (2nd most produced JEM in the line's history, they are NOT rare). Thanks for informing us of this very cool and useful information! 🤘🤘

[@warmongerhero]

THERE IS A CLEAR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE 5150 AND THE 6505. WHEN I PLAY THE 5150 I THINK OF MY AMAZING TONE WHILE I FIGURE OUT HOW TO PAY OFF THE LOAN I TOOK OUT TO PAY THE THING.

[@basshippy101]

Differences that minute can even be put down to component tolerance levels.

[@AlanTopham2237]

Back in the '80s I was told "you need Russian tubes, they're the bestest!!" 🤣🤣🤣

[@SpectreSoundStudios]

I remember that!!

[@KevinSparksatx]

They were probably right just by coincidence of most tubes being made in Russia

[@ScottRay77]

Well I'm sure you've heard the old saying they don't build them like they used to. That is true to some extent when it comes to tubes. Old tubes made by RCA from the U.S. and old Russian tubes were built to a higher standard(more robust) than modern tubes. Which means they were just better built and lasted longer which has nothing to do with tone. These people that go out and pay crazy prices for New Old Stock tubes thinking it's going to make their amp sound better are idiots.They may last a little longer but that's about it.Id rather save my money.

[@michaelsnydermusic]

Glenn, thanks for the background research. I enjoy that stuff and it makes me watch even though I’m not in the market for this amp.

[@chasej7337]

If only there was a way to calculate how much money Glenn has helped musicians save over the years. Die hard fan of your channel! Cheers from KS!

[@427_FE]

Remember the Genelex Gold Lion tube craze in the early 2000's anyone? "what did you hear ?" is the key. Well done.

[@notnoaintno5134]

basically the pitch in Hz of any harmonic can be calculated using the formula (fundamental)*x, where x is any whole integer. so for instance you're playing a440 as the fundamental pitch, and you want to know what the second harmonic is. simply multiply 440 by 2. for the 3rd mupltiply by 3, etc.

[@theax40]

I'll never forget the first time I heard a 5150 in person, at a metal show in a small venue. Guitarist comes out for a quick sound check. It was the greatest thing I'd ever heard. The best heavy metal tone in history.

[@robkuhlman585]

I love my 6505. Got it in exchange for #200 worth of guitar lessons from a student who had the combo and the cabinet had cracked after being dropped. I built a case from poplar wood and now it's a 6505 amp head. :) It's very versatile.

[@douglasnielson8250]

The block letter and signature amps are the same circuit. About the time Peavey got rid of the block letter faceplate because ElectroVoice said they couldn’t put EV on their amps, Peavey was running out of their inventory of Sylvania 6L6 tubes they were using. They started using Chinese 6L6 tubes. Some say they can hear the difference. Ed liked the 6L6 tubes better than the 5881 tubes that were in the Soldano amps he was using.

[@patrikez1]

Ahh but you didn´t swap all the tubes between the amps did you ???.-The differences in the graphs are due to differences in the preamp tubes.

[@miahmcbride5415]

I have a block letter. The only thing it had that was different were original Sylvania 6L6's... I still have them, but changed them out years ago... It'll always be a killer amp.

[@chriscampbell9191]

Great vid. I'm not a metalhead, so some of the earlier bands' examples really didn't hit with me, but I think your overall take on this old amp vs. new amp issue is valid, and you support it with graphs, which is cool. I.e., trying to save guitarists money so they buy into actual sound, instead of hype. As for the sonic differences, one wonders how much those differences would really matter when you've got the signal going into the amp has already gone through dirt boxes, EQ's, different guitars producing the signal, etc. Peace.

[@AmdusciasBaal]

Curious to hear the difference on the green channel with crunch on + a tube Screamer. It was a very popular use of the 5150 for rhythm guitars rather than the red channel. (But I admit it's pure curiosity/geekery from me haha !) Cheers Glenn, keep up the great work ! 🤘

[@rmzzz76]

This is very interesting, but I'm wondering how much variation there would be between two classic 5150 heads or two modern 92' original heads. Anytime you have a board with capacitors there's always a range of accepted tolerance (i.e. variation), very small, but would still probably show up with the type of in-depth signal analysis you're doing here.

[@AndriiHryhoriev]

Potentiometers has 10-15% tolerance. B250 (typical treble pot) at 12 o’clock could be 125k/125k, or could be 100k/120k, or 110/100k or something else. That’s means even two same amplifiers should have different eq settings when they looks the same. But also most of components in 5150 has a 5% tolerance (just a couple resistors has 1% tolerance). All amps a different. The same thing with speakers

[@patrickmartin3306]

Glen! Can you review the Ted Weber ToneCvlt speakers? They're supposedly designed for metal and heavier styles in mind, and you're a great gear reviewer who gives honest opinions! Nobody is messing around or reviewing the Bloodhounds at all.

[@SpectreSoundStudios]

Yes! Definitely want to check them out

[@Venthorn]

I think what's going on in the question around 13:00 is actually pretty simple: tolerance stacking (and component aging). All electronic components have some tolerances, and values can shift ever-so-slightly when they age. The resistors in my own 6505 combo have 5% tolerance, for example. Capacitors and resistors in the tone stack will have an outsized effect compared to, say, the capacitors in the power supply rectifier. Tolerances will stack up over a big circuit, and the results are two different amplifiers are always going to give slightly different outputs. I believe if you shot out two old 5150s, or two new 6505s, you'd see similar results. Regardless though, they both sound the same to me. Only difference is in my eyes (frequency response graphs), not my ears.

[@Road_Rash]

I can't afford either version... I'll stick with my old paid for Marshall...

[@TheLexluthier]

Most components like resistors and capacitors have a fairly tight tolerance these days. The potentiometers are another story. They can vary 10-20% easily. Transformers can also vary a fair amount as well. Those old Sylvania 6L6's Peavey used to use were not matched. They just grabbed a quad and stuck them in the amp. I still have the original set from my old block 5150, they varied about 10mv. Bias can affect the tone, from the factory those amps were biased cold so the tubes lasted longer.

[@douglasnielson8250]

I’m amazed the Peavey 5150 amps are as reliable as they are. If you look inside one and see how they are built you would think there would be more problems.

[@StephenCameron]

I have a block letter 5150 I bought new in 1993, and it did not come with Sylvania's. I think they ran out of those pretty quick.

[@kosmo926]

Yes, very rare and collectible and hunted for even more these days.

[@rockandrollmd541]

Ted Nugent surprisingly started using a 5150 amp in 1995. The sound on the "Spirit of the Wild" album is a total departure from his trademark midrange-heavy sound.

[@msw812]

Interesting, as much as I love the early 5150’s I loved Jake E. Lee’s guitar tone when he played Marshalls much more than his tone when he was on the 5150 wagon.

[@douglasnielson8250]

The power tubes in a 5150 are biased so cold that it’s not going to make much difference what you are running in it. The big advantage of a cold biased amp is your power tubes will last longer. Most the 5150’s tone is generated in the preamp.

[@mclostinthewoods]

Knew a lot of guys back in the day that played the 5150. Was a great amp, but my default setup was a Mesa Boogie DC-100 head through two 5150 4x12 cabs (or a single slant back 5150 cab in smaller venues). I also recorded with that setup. Very versatile and loud (when needed). Our other guitar player used a Mesa Dual Recto / Marshall cabinets setup. His sounded great too, but I always preferred the EQ feature on the DC-100 head.

[@eakinj]

12:54 I'm just curious how much of this could be attributed to age and use? There's not a huge difference, but with these being electrical devices I wonder how much if any, wear and tear and electricity going through them for decades would start affecting it? I'm not going to suggest you buy another one, but maybe you know someone else with the same period 5150 that you could test as well? Either way the music itself being played is kick ass.

[@SilasoftheLamb]

So nerdy and cool at the same time!!! :) Thank you for explaining this...

[@tunesquid]

I'm wondering if it's just component tolerance differences. I once had 2 dual rectifiers that were made within about 2 months of each other and they sounded slightly different to each other as well when using a switcher to the same cab. Nothing that a tiny amount of twisting the knobs wouldn't really account for, but the difference was there. Wondering if this is the same deal. Would be interesting to see if you could borrow another few of these amps over the coming months to see the differences in the manufacturing tolerances.

[@phenixnunlee372]

So, I am an acoustician and electrical engineer and I want to point out while the difference is measurably different most of these difference would be inside the range of a class 1 measurement microphone. If your quality control was based fully on frequency response these would be the same amplifier. The distortion plots are different but quantifying the audibility of distortion is a continued research topic.

[@Brandons_Heavy_Riffs]

I think my favorite part of this video is that you left in the names of the amps that were playing during the first test so you can have a surplus of “Butthurt Of The Week” for at least another month from those who heard the “massive” differences in the grand mix. I didn’t hear anything there but I’m sure somebody will lol

[@BluesSaracenoOfficial]

Great Job Glenn! Love hearing you cut to the chase!

[@Pikatrainer2]

Different components have different tolerances. Modern day resistors used in designs (unless you're in a power circuit) are 1% tolerance and should be pretty closely aligned. However, other components such as transistors are likely to be where you'd see these tolerances come into play. The difference in transformer almost certainly makes a difference because it's going to affect how the signal drives the rest of the circuitry. Since you asked about harmonics: a pure sine wave is a single frequency, but when we talk about a note, it isn't a pure sine wave. There are other frequencies (harmonics) mixed in. A harmonic specifically is related to the wavelength used to produce that frequency, and they happen to be whole integer fractions of the base frequency (usually referred to as the fundamental frequency). For example, a 1m string vibrating would have harmonics at 1/2m, 1/3m, 1/4m, etc with each of those wavelengths corresponding to a higher frequency. When you add distortion you're increasing the volume of those harmonics, as well as adding additional harmonics to the ones already there. I believe the graph you're looking at is telling you how much each harmonic is boosted across frequency. Normally when you look at a frequency response graph you're only looking at how the fundamental frequency is affected. Going back to a guitar, bass, etc. even a single fretted note is not a single frequency, but a group of frequencies. So by looking at the harmonics in addition to just the fundamental you can get a larger picture of what the signal chain is doing to a real world instrument. Hope this helps!

[@sabbath931]

In early 2020 I managed to buy a 5150 block letter it is my first tube amp. A guy locally was selling it on kijiji for 800 CAD. He told me it had been sitting in the back corner in his church for the last 20 years atleast and when cleaning out the church they gave it to him because they knew he played guitar but it was too overkill for him.

[@chiefpotpipe]

Bought a Tremoverb head from GC this year. Came ripped open in the rain. Some traces were broken and the transformer was damaged. Returned it and bought a Roadster head at a different GC. Box arrived damaged, channel 3 was complete white noise hiss-unusable . Lesson learned.