Speed Test - Aero vs. Light - Which is Faster?

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NorCal Cycling

NorCal Cycling

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 442
@tutvid
@tutvid 4 жыл бұрын
Would be awesome to see a video like this where you hold 300W for a 10-15 minute ride like normal and then do it with a 10lb or 20lb vest on. Then riders 20lbs overweight (like me 😁) can see what kind of gains they get by losing that extra weight. Awesome video! Love your content! 💪🏼💪🏼
@ProfessorSteez
@ProfessorSteez 4 жыл бұрын
The gains you can make are more than mechanical energy savings too! It’s estimated in documented anatomy studies that every pound of fat requires ~ 1 mile of blood vessels to sustain it. The extra fat isn’t just heavy, it’s a leech. The extra blood going back to your muscles generally make you stronger and more efficient.
@isaiahhudson3729
@isaiahhudson3729 4 жыл бұрын
Check this vid from VC- kzbin.info/www/bejne/rWqbl6qIireJrJo
@itsm3th3b33
@itsm3th3b33 3 жыл бұрын
The answer to your question is well established by science, and common sense. Aero advantages strongly dependent on speed. Weight advantages on a flat course only noticeable on acceleration in sprints, otherwise negligible. OTOH, weight is king on uphills. Aero advantages on uphills are negligible. In short, it depends on what type of riding you do.
@SpeedBoosted136
@SpeedBoosted136 3 жыл бұрын
On straight line - no difference. Wattage and position are the king of straight line speed. On downhill heavier riders are even at advantage. But when uphill comes - its a suffer because its a watt/kg, which causes you to get dropped against others. In general - get fitter and slimmer !!! Thats the way ;)
@tengamangapiu
@tengamangapiu 2 жыл бұрын
I got dropped in a 6% hill and when looking at the Strava analysis, both me and my group leader put 200w. However, my 165 pound weight vs what could be a 110 pound rider, yields 8 mph but almost 11 mph for her. Moreover, according to the bike calculator site, I would need to output 300w during the climb to reach closer speed to 11 mph and not get dropped. So when climbing such a 6% hill, which is not much, weight is much more important than aero.
@TheBRad704
@TheBRad704 4 жыл бұрын
7:50 my take is a little different. Maybe 90% of the people truly competing for podiums at the P/1/2 level will see a benefit... I'd say for 90% of the people watching this, 6 seconds over 10 miles means that the bike shape doesn't matter at all. The gain (just my opinion) is the step up from a 22lb entry-level bike to a sub-18lb race bike. All that said..... I'm a Cat 4 on a Madone with Vittoria Qurano 46's. 🤷‍♂️
@Red-ju4mi
@Red-ju4mi 3 жыл бұрын
walking a bike uphill or putting it on my roof rack its nice when it weights 5lb lighter. Or lighter = lower gear inch = winning
@Sharmiya-g3o
@Sharmiya-g3o 4 жыл бұрын
whatever camera your using it looks great. super good quality, lighting and colours, and the details on the bikes look sharp and crisp. keep making the great videos
@robthompson6674
@robthompson6674 4 жыл бұрын
I'm a sucker for this sort of content, so thanks for putting it together. This reply it for anyone considering a new bike - I got a used SL6 Tarmac (can't afford new anything in the world of bikes anymore) after over a decade of lots of racing, and occasional winning, on a 2012 all carbon bike from another brand (a world championship was won on the exact same frameset, so I never exactly blamed the bike for any of my shortcomings). Like everyone, I've spent the last bunch of years reading endless articles and posts about aero everything and xx% stiffer tubing/bb's and XX seconds faster over 40km. It just seemed like marketing. Well, let me say the "new-to-me" Tarmac is a truly incredible bike. I am beyond amazed by it. I'm almost 49 and I'm setting PR's all over the place on this bike. It's bonkers. It's a little less 'comfortable" than my last bike (due to stiffness) but it is so, so much faster and more responsive. I haven't appreciated ANY upgrade this much since I got my first carbon race wheels way back when. So do yourself a favor if you're on an a "non aero" bike and go take one for a test ride. I hope you discover what I sure did.
@primaire7
@primaire7 4 жыл бұрын
I had same experiment and ended up same conclusion. Glad to hear same opinion not to make myself strange.
@danielmonts7873
@danielmonts7873 4 жыл бұрын
Would love a video on sprinting technique form and tips
@igrantyou
@igrantyou 4 жыл бұрын
Yeah, me too
@IJoAnZI
@IJoAnZI 4 жыл бұрын
Trainer Road have a really great sprint vid kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYSwlZiboZhjipY kzbin.info/www/bejne/o3nbpnaJlpeopsk
@MrBradso
@MrBradso 4 жыл бұрын
Yes, please! I really want to improve my sprinting and I love the content from this channel.
@cliffcox7643
@cliffcox7643 4 жыл бұрын
Yes, help us plebs at least feel like we're able to use some of the top secrets, so we can at least try to be better.
@SAMB542
@SAMB542 4 жыл бұрын
Yeah I was going to ask for that. Would be interesting to see what Jeff has to say about the trainer road one as well. Maybe he is more tips and tricks! And then maybe some training advice?
@jimmyhor78
@jimmyhor78 4 жыл бұрын
Would like to see this repeated with the same depth wheels and tires. The Rubinos are a slower tire by a couple of watts per wheel that could easily account for the minor time differences.
@dominicbritt
@dominicbritt 4 жыл бұрын
Rubino Pros are a surprisingly fast wheel
@MrBJPitt
@MrBJPitt 4 жыл бұрын
Yep, would have been good to swap wheelsets over. No denying aero is faster, but how much was that due to more aero wheels? Which you can put on any bike.
@timothyhollmann8571
@timothyhollmann8571 4 жыл бұрын
Blah blah blah, lets spend 10 grand on a 6 sec diff especially since most non-racers can maintain 310 watts. Also one more hill in that test and the lighter bike would have won. We have always known time trial bikes are faster to but they are a bit of a pain machine and not much fun to ride daily.
@Music-pq8cm
@Music-pq8cm 4 жыл бұрын
In my experience, the weight of the bike and rotating wheel mass when considered with the climbing duration and grade (hill profile) are significant. A slightly heavier bike (1-2 lbs) with higher rotating mass wheels (200g more) while solo riding over a longer course with small to moderate rolling terrain (sub 20 second duration climbs and descents) will yield different results (an advantage) when compared to a lighter bike with lower rotating mass wheels on the same course. Change the course to include fewer climbs but where climbs are 10-30 minutes in duration with steeper grades and even different results (lighter bike with advantage). If you add 20 other riders to the mix along with the group compression and expansion that goes with group riding, the results/experience will be even different. There are so many variables at play. It’s possible that to achieve optimal performance, we’d need to buy up to 4-5 different bikes from which to choose depending on variables such as terrain, number of riders, how smooth those riders are, duration and grade of climbs, how many hot chicks are riding with the group ... the list goes on.
@NikoxD93
@NikoxD93 4 жыл бұрын
Yes, I remember reading a blog about measuring wheels CRR with tires filled with water and the results were very suprising. The test was done on a rolling course and the higher rotating rotating mass increased average speed. Downside is slower acceleration, but you also keep more speed at the start of a climb so that could be an advantage as well.
@kailenpiardi2721
@kailenpiardi2721 3 жыл бұрын
this comment is everything
@SpeedBoosted136
@SpeedBoosted136 3 жыл бұрын
Regarding rotational mass - search for a research with F1 team main engineer that talks about rotational masses on bikes actually do not impact overall times
@railzip
@railzip 4 жыл бұрын
I love the “TLDR’ version lol
@ianl.7545
@ianl.7545 4 жыл бұрын
Honestly, first and only video that has done that. I'm more intrigued on watching it now!
@smallhatshatethetruth7933
@smallhatshatethetruth7933 3 жыл бұрын
Shouldn't it be TLDW?
@Channel2AlexHoch
@Channel2AlexHoch 4 жыл бұрын
Would be interesting to see you do a comparison with both bikes where you ride up at longer hill at a prescribed power level. Also, a 1lb different between a "Lightweight" bike and an aero bike isn't much.. if the felt was equipped with climber wheels and able to shed another pound or two I think we would see where both bikes can shine when comparing both videos. Cheers man, keep up the great work on KZbin and on the bike!
@Jeff-bd4gg
@Jeff-bd4gg 4 жыл бұрын
Something I’d to to see tested is how the frame alone would impact speed. Wheels, tires, handlebars and stems all are easy to swap and all significantly impact aerodynamics and in the case of tires rolling resistance and aerodynamics. It seems to me the 5 second difference, as minor as it is would likely be reduced if everything were equal except the frame. ETA: average power is not what should be equal, but rather average weighted power.
@echtogammut
@echtogammut 4 жыл бұрын
I'd be curious to do this with something like the Canyon Ultimate vs the Canyon Aeroad as both can be outfitted with the same aero cockpit. The Venge cockpit vs the Felt is going to be one of the bigger factors. With the size of the gap between the front tire and downtube on both, the shape of tube will have marginal difference as laminar transfer from the rim to frame is going to be broken. Where the aero bike will see noticeable gains is in the rear of the bike as the tire is tucked up against the frame.
@crypto_que
@crypto_que 4 жыл бұрын
I'd like to see more videos like this, by more youtubers. I am a lightweight addict, but do appreciate good data on how much faster aero is. I can't wait for manufacturers to push the lightweight envelope on endurance & aero bikes. Great video keep em coming
@VBL-
@VBL- 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for confirming my purchase decision :) Picking up my Venge Pro 2020 from the store tomorrow!
@Ultegra10SPD
@Ultegra10SPD 4 жыл бұрын
Scant seconds from you saved me $8005 bux and saved my TCRs job Jeff thank you!!! 8000 - 2020 Venge Pro 5 - Cheeseburger (1lb) -U10
@Dustii91
@Dustii91 Жыл бұрын
Cycling has fascinated me recently as I've delved deeper into utube on it. I can squat 180kg, but my ftp is 186😂 I'm totally new to cycling and I'm really looking forward to the day I can hold anywhere near 300 Watts! Seems like a much to me. Loved this video of the comparison between them 2 types of bikes, much appreciated!
@porsche911GT3RS40
@porsche911GT3RS40 4 жыл бұрын
Just 2 things that might affect the results: - first of all, Venge was on way faster tires - power meters should be the same, but power2max is known for its consitency so it might not be such a big factor :) But overall, great and nice looking bikes :) And of course great job!!!
@kenhiew2900
@kenhiew2900 4 жыл бұрын
Rubino pros RR is pretty high
@minervali631
@minervali631 4 жыл бұрын
The 2021 Giant TCR is the first TCR to be designed in the wind tunnel, but ppl had been winning stages and the 2017 Giro with the not so aero old TCR
@onilovni1234
@onilovni1234 4 жыл бұрын
Aero bikes like the newer Venge are almost the same weight as standard bikes these days. The determining component is also the wheels. I'm sure some Roval 64 wheels would have made your bike a lot faster. I actually own a Venge Vias disc and it's a LOT faster than my standard light bike.
@johanmiller3116
@johanmiller3116 4 жыл бұрын
Good test! Feels like I chose right, stood in exactly this choice of bikes but it was my low self-weight that got to decide and that I live in a small hilly region = light bike. Fun to follow you.
@terryg652
@terryg652 4 жыл бұрын
There's a major flaw in your test. You used two different power meters and your data critically depends on power. Different (properly calibrated) power meters can vary up to 3%. Which is far greater than the 0.8% variance in your test. You need to use the same power meter (calibrated the same) on each bike.
@ConsciousBreaks
@ConsciousBreaks 4 жыл бұрын
That was something I immediately noticed when he displayed the two bike setups. However, there is still some statistical significance to the test, and I would be willing to bet money that the aero setup would still be faster. As for the exact numbers, you're right that they probably don't mean a whole lot in and of themselves.
@williamrogersiii4418
@williamrogersiii4418 4 жыл бұрын
It’s also not a blind test. He has bias. Either he knew aero would be faster or suspected it to be. If he knew/suspected the Felt to be faster, there might have been differences. Also the sample size is too small. N needs to be 31 or higher to have statistical significance. Also I’m the wind changes. Also “riding like a robot” isn’t how you’d normally ride. etc. etc. The data is fun to look at & this test is still valid! Just with very low confidence. It’s like the GCN tests. They are great fun and worth doing, it doesn’t mean much in my opinion.
@jaspreetsidhu5708
@jaspreetsidhu5708 4 жыл бұрын
@@williamrogersiii4418 what's he supposed to do ride with his eyes closed?
@markwells8798
@markwells8798 4 жыл бұрын
So many flaws, but that's how marketing works, enough people will believe an aero bike is faster because everyone claims it is and they look fast, even though an aerodynamicist will say it's nonsense 😂
@guywelch656
@guywelch656 3 жыл бұрын
At the end of the day who gives a fuck
@brianlinnenkamp5861
@brianlinnenkamp5861 4 жыл бұрын
Really cool to see this kinda content from you Jeff! Really enjoying the zwift races too during this stay in place.
@kenjenkillasounds
@kenjenkillasounds 3 жыл бұрын
I'm riding a 37 pound roadmaster cheap freebie bike I can't imagine me moving on one of these bad boys, I lifted a specialized bike that had fat wheels and all on it with literally a finger couldn't believe how light that was
@CoreyMcCarren
@CoreyMcCarren 9 күн бұрын
This might be one of the better videos I've seen comparing light vs aero. Just given that it seems other videos don't care to get the geometry the same. Honestly for me it says a lot that it is that close with only a 1lbs difference. My aero bike is about 4-5lbs heavier than my light bike and I've been feeling like overall they are about equally fast. Looks like that might be true
@cyclingschannel
@cyclingschannel 3 жыл бұрын
For reliably results You must repeat test with the same power meter ,same tires,same inner tubes,same pressure,same wheels,because just 1 of this components can make big difference,and different Power Meter show different power
@SteveHofsaess
@SteveHofsaess 4 жыл бұрын
I have a 2019 Tarmac and I recently made an inpulse decision to purchase my friends 2020 Venge (unused) . I was told that the Venge may be faster in the flats,, but for longer rides, the Venge is much more uncomfortable. The handle bars are about 1 inch higher on the tarmac
@jimmyhor78
@jimmyhor78 4 жыл бұрын
So is the Venge faster on the flats at a given power?
@gsr200195123
@gsr200195123 4 жыл бұрын
Awesome to see you riding familiar roads! Stay safe out there.
@thatsounditmakes9177
@thatsounditmakes9177 4 жыл бұрын
Said it before, saying it again, gotta love those handlebars 👍
@fougie81
@fougie81 4 жыл бұрын
just bought a sweet 2018 venge... 2 isolation rides in the books, love it so far
@h.p.734
@h.p.734 2 жыл бұрын
That TL;DR was very thoughtful. I often skip to the end to get to the conclusion, but for some reason, after you just said the results at the start, it sorta made me want to watch the whole thing. Reverse psychology maybe? Anyways it's great that you took a scientific approach to it and measured everything.
@murt4701
@murt4701 4 жыл бұрын
How do you know each power meter is measuring the exact same power? Your heart rate on the venge is about 3 beats higher on the venge.
@marcospuigdefabregas7694
@marcospuigdefabregas7694 4 жыл бұрын
Nice test man! Although, I would love to see the same test but Venge vs AR 🤩
@swolebro
@swolebro 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks, Jeff! That does seem like a small improvement, but it's also a shorter and slower run. If you can guesstimate that even part of that isn't statistical noise, and extrapolate it to a crit that's 5x longer and 33% faster, I can easily see that being an enormous benefit. Of course, apart from the aerodynamics of the bike, there's also the tire selection, bearing quality/alignment, and frame stiffness that contribute to losses between your legs and the road. Its probably less fair to say that "an aero bike beats a lightweight bike" than it is to say "the Venge is a damn well-made bike"... Which you've definitely said already, but now you have some data for it! Hahah. How much longer do you think until cabin fever makes Alviso come back as a socially-distanced time trial?
@andrewdeck7945
@andrewdeck7945 4 жыл бұрын
Honestly, too many variables to draw any conclusions. This is GCN science style and I dislike that people try to draw fact from this type of test. The only conclusion I would draw from this is just ride the style of bike you love because there is not too much difference between the two. Complaints aside, I enjoy the content and race commentary especially. That you for making more recently.
@404nobrakes
@404nobrakes 4 жыл бұрын
Andrew Deck yeah I wouldn’t conclude “aero bike is faster”. I’d say something more like “if there is a massive difference between aero bikes and normal bikes, it sure is hard to see”
@Peter-ss1vb
@Peter-ss1vb 4 жыл бұрын
80 percent of drag is you the big mass on top of the bike . getting your body into an aero position will cut most of the drag. when ridding in a group, who needs an aero bike. But I will say that aero bikes have there place,but you don't need to buy one just because it aero
@kylecouture1917
@kylecouture1917 4 жыл бұрын
At the end of the day, the savings is insignificant unless you are trying to be a pro racer. So with a tarmac vs venge, or supersix evo vs systemsix, go with whatever bike books better to you.
@lechprotean
@lechprotean 4 жыл бұрын
it helps that aero bikes generally look better. Hopefully they'll get lighter over time. I'll get one when when I can get an aero bike that's lighter than my current non-aero.
@waynosfotos
@waynosfotos 4 жыл бұрын
Agreed, i would rather have a bike that is more comfy and handles better. Aero bikes can have a lot of stuff that makes them difficult to live with. Plus i bet if you put the best guy at the race on a non aero bike he would still win. Even looking at the pros, GC contenders, many choose the conventional bikes over the full on aero, and they can have anything in the sponsors arsenal that is available.
@bluemystic7501
@bluemystic7501 4 жыл бұрын
Assuming the power meters read identically, I wonder how much of a difference the wheels make? Deeper wheels are faster. Does 10mm make a difference though? Awesome test!
@noels8817
@noels8817 4 жыл бұрын
Makes sense it could be the deeper wheels, gud point.
@lechprotean
@lechprotean 4 жыл бұрын
@@noels8817 only 4mm difference between the rim depths but yeah, that probably added more than the frame... Also 6 seconds might not seems like much but the difference between the 1st place and the 5th on those crits is usually less than that..
@waynosfotos
@waynosfotos 4 жыл бұрын
Yes, deeper wheels have the biggest affect after the rider.
@fastasasloth
@fastasasloth 4 жыл бұрын
And the different rolling resistance/aerodynamics of the different tyre brands/model used..... Good racer, crap experimentalist ;)
@waynosfotos
@waynosfotos 4 жыл бұрын
@@fastasasloth i do think "crap" test is a bit harsh, but to say one bike is quicker than the other from the data is a stretch. I expected the two to be similar and they were. Most power meters claim a 1% accuracy but the difference was 0.8% in performance, so variance would clearly be in the variance and uncertainty of the equipment used. I personally believe from this test all you can include is the the bikes within measurement uncertainty were the same, pretty much aero tubing makes no or insignificant differences.
@waynosfotos
@waynosfotos 4 жыл бұрын
So the venge is 0.8% faster, this difference could be within measurement variance on the day. I would say this is really insignificant gain, which is what i would expected. The biggest drag is the rider, why a TT bike will give you much bigger gains than a aero road bike. The second biggest thing is deep section wheels, so the bikes in reality are pretty much the same. As for crit racing, unless you are on the front for long stints, again it is mute, as when you are drafting you get about 30% less drag. Long story short, aero roag bikes make very little difference. But hey thanks for doing the test, i know these things take a lot of work, being a creator myself and a cyclist.
@knowfun
@knowfun 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the tldr! Still watched the whole video though
@l.a7990
@l.a7990 4 жыл бұрын
Right to the point!! Short and informative!!
@AlexRochette
@AlexRochette 4 жыл бұрын
How do you train right now? Are you treating the lockdown as an off season and targeting races in (hopefully) September-November?
@LucaBonato
@LucaBonato 4 жыл бұрын
Living near the alps, seriously 400 feet of elevation is just flat for us 😂 interesting results though, it would be cool to see on a long climb. Probably the aero handlebars and deeper rims does their jobs
@hannonayer9792
@hannonayer9792 4 жыл бұрын
I live near where he filmed this and it is the flat ride around here too. But you cant expect a sprinter to go up Mt Hamilton or Mt Umunhum 🤣
@okimy3668
@okimy3668 4 жыл бұрын
400ft is some serious elevation, at least for someone who lives in the rhine plains.
@frozenbean
@frozenbean 4 жыл бұрын
All that aero would make descending a lot more fun, that's for sure.
@LucaBonato
@LucaBonato 4 жыл бұрын
@@frozenbean nope, your handling skills make the descents fun and having a long enough gear... The secret is not using your brakes
@frozenbean
@frozenbean 4 жыл бұрын
@@LucaBonato I run out of gears around 75 - 80kph, any faster and it's all down to physics and aerodynamics. That said, I have a climbing bike with shallow wheels, so I rarely hit 90 on the twisty mountain roads around here. You only need brakes when cornering, do others actually use them on the straight bits? Weird.
@michawarias6570
@michawarias6570 4 жыл бұрын
Sorry for being skeptical, isn't that a difference within the powermeter measurement error?
@NorCalCycling
@NorCalCycling 4 жыл бұрын
yes, probably. Even if we throw out the difference and say it's equal, the heavier bike is still faster than the lighter bike on rolling terrain.
@remad8771
@remad8771 4 жыл бұрын
I am skeptical too, while I do think the Venge is probably faster, I think this test is in the range of experimental error. Using Power Pedals or a Power Hub would have made for a better test.
@michawarias6570
@michawarias6570 4 жыл бұрын
@@NorCalCycling I would say they are close call. Anyway, love your video as always!
@eto2352
@eto2352 4 жыл бұрын
Would be interesting to see how the test would go if you swapped wheels.
@NorCalCycling
@NorCalCycling 4 жыл бұрын
Sram and Shimano don't get along especially with the different sized rotors. I'm guessing results would be similar on this course. Venge would lose a little aero, but also lose a little weight.
@migueltovar9702
@migueltovar9702 4 жыл бұрын
What do you prefer for light weight and sprint on the drive train shimano or sram?
@JoeJoe-lq6bd
@JoeJoe-lq6bd 4 жыл бұрын
Almost all of the aero advantage is in the wheels. Frames make very little difference.
@rickmancini772
@rickmancini772 3 жыл бұрын
@@JoeJoe-lq6bd yes
@mynewcolour
@mynewcolour 3 жыл бұрын
The Rubino Pro is a training tyre, the Turbo Cotton is a racing tyre no? If so that’s a shame. Tyres (and tubes-type/no-tubes) make a real difference.
@Mububban23
@Mububban23 3 жыл бұрын
I've seen videos and studies that suggest anything under a prolonged 6% gradient for elite riders (more like 4% for regular cyclists) then aero is still more beneficial. Light weight only rules on long steep sustained climbs. But if you've still got to ride to the climb, and descend, and cycle home, then aero is likely still better if every second matters to you. Personally, just being a low powered chump, I think something like a new TCR which is fairly light weight but also aero optimised (but not hardcore aero) would be a logical sweet spot. Not too heavy in the hills, still get some aero gains, and not rock hard so can cope with long rides too.
@andrewwoffinden8671
@andrewwoffinden8671 Жыл бұрын
Don't forget though that in a crit you're in the draft a lot which may negate the aero advantages and also there are more accelerations which would favour the light weight bike so maybe it's not that clear cut.
@pedroresende4216
@pedroresende4216 4 жыл бұрын
If the light bike had rim brakes the difference in weight would be even higher and the test even more interesting.
@reddotcycling6971
@reddotcycling6971 4 жыл бұрын
I have a TCR Advanced 2 and a Propel Advanced 2. Both 2020 models. The Propel is significantly heavier.. maybe 700-800grams more. But as my ride is mostly flat and never more then 2 hour. I find that I choose the Propel more often and it’s true it’s stiffer. Every stroke can be reflected onto speed. Plus aero bike looks so much sicker!
@nemure
@nemure 3 жыл бұрын
aeros are just a hair faster if conditions are appropriate while they cost a ton more money. The lighter cheaper one is a better call tbh
@Timtimzi
@Timtimzi 4 жыл бұрын
I love aero bikes as well. Looks nice and feels superior !
@ceymaniii
@ceymaniii 4 жыл бұрын
I was never cat 1 or 2. I started racing as a vet and never got better that cat 3. I rode a Ti frame with Velocity Al wheels for years. Finally, at age 71, I bought a Cannondale Systemsix and instantly went from hanging on in the geriatric group rides I do to fighting out the sprints. My average speed went up by 1.5 mph while exerting the same or less average power, and I found that I was able to recover while back in the pace line, so I was stronger in the next pull. Aero vs light isn't even a question for me. The answer is obvious. I only wish I'd had a weapon like this when I was racing!
@benshane8455
@benshane8455 4 жыл бұрын
what width aerofly handlebar are you using? Kinda bummed that they stock a 42 on the 56, seems too wide to me, but curious your thoughts on it? Also, the weight penalty is why I'm ordering the Ultergra Di2 version, then gonna swap to DA 50x34 crank, 140 rotors, and DA 11-28 cassette. It will probably weigh close to what that Felt does.
@NorCalCycling
@NorCalCycling 4 жыл бұрын
42cm. I detail these bikes in the links in the description.
@samuelmundula2216
@samuelmundula2216 4 жыл бұрын
Cycling Tips did some investigation into this & found that the break even point is 6-7%. For those who go faster up hills, aero is still more important. For those gran-fondo riders who cruise up the hills, lightweight will benefit them more because their total avg speed will be lower, meaning that the lighter weight of the bike will have a bigger impact vs the aerodynamics.
@rubielrodriguez2144
@rubielrodriguez2144 4 жыл бұрын
Aero bike for crit and anything longer than 50 miles a comfortable light bike. we spent 85-90%of the time on the draft in long group rides or races so aero won't matter as much. Anything longer than 50 miles distance the average speed will be the 23 miles and lower. If a breakaway is gonna happen within a breakaway already it would most likely happen in the Hills.
@samuelmundula2216
@samuelmundula2216 4 жыл бұрын
@@rubielrodriguez2144 honestly I find my aero bike to be comfortable enough for 110 mi rides so it'd be my go to pick regardless
@kyzersoze9002
@kyzersoze9002 4 жыл бұрын
Could you do a video on how you setup the position on your bike? Would be cool to see what choices you make to get more aero or comfortable and maybe how you set up the handlebars for sprinting.
@cameronking1872
@cameronking1872 4 жыл бұрын
I’d like a video that goes into detail for like the social constructs in a cycling team. I’m a bit shy and at times awkward but I consider myself a great cyclist and crit contender and want to join a team but I’m a bit socially awkward. So I’d love to see a video detailing what it’s like to be on a team, How the roles are chosen, Training sessions together etc. Even about how it is hanging out with your team doing nothing cycling related.
@lucasandino9774
@lucasandino9774 3 жыл бұрын
What were the differences you felt in terms of comfort? I’m about to buy an FR Advanced but I’m also being offered two good aero options. I’m worried about aero being too stiff, a harsh ride. Thanks!
@amarmangaonkar7682
@amarmangaonkar7682 3 жыл бұрын
Why that merida reacto has specialized written on it. Is it custom??
@xmarcika
@xmarcika Жыл бұрын
I know it's now many years later, but did you like more Reynolds wheels or Bontrager? 😁 Thanks
@marcuscheung5025
@marcuscheung5025 4 жыл бұрын
What would happen if both had the same wheels?
@zonin2000
@zonin2000 4 жыл бұрын
Great video, I love this kind of thing. How do you think the equivalent Tarmac (Pro; SRAM Force etap) would compare? It comes with the same Roval CL 50 wheels.
@KenSmith-bv4si
@KenSmith-bv4si 4 жыл бұрын
Cool video , I have the 2020Tarmac pro , with the same group set and colour . The drive train is so quite all I can hear are the tyres and wheels .
@bigwil91
@bigwil91 4 жыл бұрын
perfect timing. I'm in the middle of getting a tarmac or venge! I live in TX and love crit races but I'm a weak climber, so i'm debating
@jaspreetsidhu5708
@jaspreetsidhu5708 4 жыл бұрын
Tarmac, the few watts lost on the venge is nowhere near the versatility and comfort of the tarmac. Plus it kicks off the line.
@jameswong391
@jameswong391 2 жыл бұрын
One thing to touch on - would be for lower weight riders - would the lighter bike's weight margin be more proportionally beneficial? Also at what wattage (and therefore speed) aero bikes might start dominating, for us more mortal folks
@torontogonzo
@torontogonzo 4 жыл бұрын
What is the cost difference between the two setups? Otherwise it looks to be at best a marginal performance improvement for a lot of dollars.
@NorCalCycling
@NorCalCycling 4 жыл бұрын
$6k vs $8k venge is more expensive.
@frankiegonzalez3005
@frankiegonzalez3005 4 жыл бұрын
But yea swap the wheels and do it again... that could be interesting
@oeliku3033
@oeliku3033 3 жыл бұрын
the wheels do not matter that much aerowise. basicly the spokes will alway disturb the air - no matter what the rims shape is. The only variable that matters is the lengh of the spokes. most of the drag can be reduced by shaping the frame and the handle bar, as well as removing outside accessoires such as lamps and wires
@zaahierstanley955
@zaahierstanley955 4 жыл бұрын
What s your view on left hand power meter arms ? Is it worth because of affordability and at what stage with a more comprehensive power meter come in handy ? Like measuring with both feet ...
@CesarFalco
@CesarFalco 4 жыл бұрын
great video as always
@MattPotter15
@MattPotter15 4 жыл бұрын
Nice video bro! Your Venge is sweet, I have the previous model. Can you do a video about getting into crits? How to train, best cheap bike, equipment etc...?
@tulgabayasgalan3730
@tulgabayasgalan3730 4 жыл бұрын
Love your vids man, How much do you weight and how tall are you? How is aero bike beneficial when you are racing? About 80-95% of the time you end up riding someone else's wheel. Do aero bike still get benefit when in slipstream?
@NorCalCycling
@NorCalCycling 4 жыл бұрын
the principal opposing force on a flat road, whether or not you're in the draft, is wind. I'm 6ft, 74kg
@onyong123
@onyong123 3 жыл бұрын
Curious now that you have ridden both bikes… if you were someone who it’s only doing a handful of races a season would you prefer the aethos of venge as an everyday bike?
@creativecommons4121
@creativecommons4121 2 жыл бұрын
Would like to see the same test after swapping the tires. Also, wider tire may have less rolling resistance. Agree below, 90% of racers better off with Aero but opposite for everyone else.
@hollowright
@hollowright 4 жыл бұрын
Which one would you ride at the Red Bull Bay Climb?
@MaximeTurcotte1983
@MaximeTurcotte1983 4 жыл бұрын
Hello Jeff, I know you are racing sometimes on Zwift, it would be nice if you could come on the RGT platform to try it. It is similar to zwift, but you need to brake at corners and positioning is more important. I believe you could like it. If you are interested, I could provide you a link to an event :) Continue your good work !!
@ericarnold1739
@ericarnold1739 4 жыл бұрын
Hey Jeff, what bike do you find more comfortable? I am tempted to get an aero bike for my next bike but I have heard they become uncomfortable on longer rides.
@andyvaldez212
@andyvaldez212 4 жыл бұрын
Here an odd question, do you think its possible for someone who lifts heavy or heavier than average to maintain that strength and be fast on a bike or is it one or the other? Like do you have to be a thin guy with little muscle but extreme cardiovascular fitness to be a pro level cyclist.
@Stevenafoe
@Stevenafoe 4 жыл бұрын
Great review! For me it’s a hard choice, as i live in a very flat country (thus might choose aero) but as i am older and not so fast, i wonder if aero still does benefit me on lower speeds, say between 33 and 37 km/pu (say 20 to 23 miles per hour). My guess it’ll be even, lighter bike easier to accelerate, up small climbs etc, aero bike a tiny bit faster, but just a little due to being aero at lower speeds. What do you think?
@deangericke4035
@deangericke4035 4 жыл бұрын
I bet the difference could be in rolling resistance of the tires....and then some. What tires used? Tubeless or non? Latex tubes vs butyl? Tire pressures used? Etc etc.
@NorCalCycling
@NorCalCycling 4 жыл бұрын
Wow I don't mean to sound rude but I'm getting a lot of questions from ppl that can be answered if they just watch the video. This is meant to be a stock all-round bike vs stock aero bike. The equipment is different because that's what I'm testing.
@deangericke4035
@deangericke4035 4 жыл бұрын
NorCal Cycling thank you for the response. I did look up the difference in rolling resistance between the tires. 8 watts higher on the Felt (4 watts per tire). That could easily be the difference in time. To me the subtle difference in aero efficiency can easily be masked by much more substantial things like rolling resistance. It’s not my intention to discredit what you have done, but point out there are many variables that would need to be neutralized before you can make any kind of assessment.
@ryanflores2281
@ryanflores2281 3 жыл бұрын
@Jeff any chance you could get your hands on the Winspace Hyper 50 MM wheels? Would be interested to hear your opinion.
@steroidstar1267
@steroidstar1267 4 жыл бұрын
How do you keep your chain so clean? What do u use? I wash every little part and switch the chain but it’s 1 ride collecting all the dirt and dust of the worlds bumhole
@rp6760
@rp6760 4 жыл бұрын
Only a valid test if the same tyres on both bikes were use. Rolling resistance on Sworks tyres was the differnce...
@DeeNogger1
@DeeNogger1 4 жыл бұрын
Great video. One thing that might be of interest is how aero vs weight differs at lower watts or lower w/kg (i.e. slower speeds). Logically I would assume that as you slow down weight helps more and aero helps less, but I am not sure where the functional cut off point is where weight starts being better than aero.
@vika0194
@vika0194 2 жыл бұрын
Obviously lighter means better acceleration. Wind has a big effect at spreds of 20 km/h and above. That’s where aero starts to matter.
@F1NDO799
@F1NDO799 3 жыл бұрын
Aero bikes really makes different in crit, but aero bikes are good for endurance, like a century or 200k ? Thanks
@blakek7441
@blakek7441 4 жыл бұрын
Here is my question, let's say if you stayed in the draft of the bunch the whole race, since the lighter bike would accelerate faster and is stiffer. Would it be more favourable in a field sprint finish?
@NorCalCycling
@NorCalCycling 4 жыл бұрын
the principal opposing force on a flat road, whether or not you're in the draft, is wind. The aero bike is also generally stiffer than the lighter bike. The aero bike wins.
@LeoInterHyenaem
@LeoInterHyenaem 4 жыл бұрын
Upon the other hand, the Felt looks quite a bit better. A beautiful bike, 9 out of 10.
@n0twist1
@n0twist1 4 жыл бұрын
i like hilly road races so i went with the tarmac. the venge is sweet though!
@moetarded7757
@moetarded7757 4 жыл бұрын
How long is that seat post? Also how long is too long? Ty great channel!
@henrikerdland578
@henrikerdland578 4 жыл бұрын
Maybe a test between a Venge and a Tarmac would make better sense. We don't know how big difference there are between a Specialized and the Felt.
@PedalandTrek
@PedalandTrek 4 жыл бұрын
Doesn't the drafting in a Crit race kinda negate the benefits of an aero bike?
@NorCalCycling
@NorCalCycling 4 жыл бұрын
Gotta hit the wind to reposition and move up. Or at least once at the very end (when you're going fastest and it matters most) if you're doing it right 😉
@ceymaniii
@ceymaniii 4 жыл бұрын
In my experience, absolutely not! When I went from my Ti frame, standard Al wheeled bike to a Systemsix I found a major gain in recovery while in the pace line. I went from hanging on to fighting at the finish.
@revo408
@revo408 4 жыл бұрын
Hey bro love watching your race videos with my son, I live in San Jose Ca can you do a video of some of your favorite rides in the South Bay or Bay Area??
@NorCalCycling
@NorCalCycling 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the tip, but his won't be applicable to a huge portion of my audience. Email me and I'm happy to discuss.
@serdiezv
@serdiezv 3 жыл бұрын
I hear your point, but what about this. I'm 90 kg (I know I can get down to 85 easy) and I want a bike as light as possible to not haul even more weight.
@cpcxgsr
@cpcxgsr 4 жыл бұрын
Should have compared the sl6 tarmac vs the current venge. Interested to see how they both compare in the real world.
@ThePallindrome
@ThePallindrome 4 жыл бұрын
Objective review! I was expecting bias lean towards specialized being sponsors. If possible & if you're going down this path since you touched on hilly road races, can you repeat the same test on the venge as well as the tarmac?
@NorCalCycling
@NorCalCycling 4 жыл бұрын
Some of my teammates chose tarmac, but it's problematic with the shelter in place. Plus changing the fit on someone else's bike is a no-no.
@JesseDishner
@JesseDishner 4 жыл бұрын
Probably similar results I would imagine.
@hogdog567
@hogdog567 4 жыл бұрын
Here in North Wales I often do around 300-350 metres (~1000 a 1150 feet) of climbing per 10 miles of riding. I wonder what the results would be for the terrain I ride.
@user-fk6id7qs6r
@user-fk6id7qs6r 4 жыл бұрын
in the PNW here and do the same if not more climbing, adding aero bits to my climbing frame helped a ton. new frame will deff be aero
@dominikdeluga5268
@dominikdeluga5268 3 жыл бұрын
It’s all cool but it makes me wonder, I live in Denmark and the places around here are basically flat with tiny rolling hills. I still see plenty of experienced riders riding very expensive ‘light’ or ‘endurance’ bikes, and these guys are really strong riders (according to their Strava records), what makes them choose an all around bike instead of an aero bike?
@rongaro
@rongaro 4 жыл бұрын
Loving the new content!
@SB-hi3xq
@SB-hi3xq 2 жыл бұрын
How about a real lightweight rim brake bike at 15 pounds VS the 18 pounds aero bikes we currently see on the market (same tires, same wheels) ?
@maximkrivov
@maximkrivov 4 жыл бұрын
Hey Jeff, great vids! I heard that if you line up your valves with the tyre logos it's more aero ;) you should try it.
@DjMarkieMarc
@DjMarkieMarc 4 жыл бұрын
First of all love the content 👌. My question is I am undecided in between the TREK Domane aero bike and the specialized aero my budget is around 5 to 6 K any advice would be great btw I've never ridden either of these bikes .
@NorCalCycling
@NorCalCycling 4 жыл бұрын
Get the specialized, they are my sponsors 😆 honestly either would probably be fine. I would ride both and see if you have a preference. Keep in mind the maintenance can be challenging on internally routed aero bikes, idk if trek has solved that problem on the newer models, but I know specialized has.
@DjMarkieMarc
@DjMarkieMarc 4 жыл бұрын
@@NorCalCycling thank you for your help I'll see whenever we get back to some normality. I'll test ride'em
@Shmack_
@Shmack_ 4 жыл бұрын
Can I race with my 2019 Diverge Carbon Comp? or will the future shock 1.5 make it not stiff enough?
@salfordM5
@salfordM5 4 жыл бұрын
If the felt is only 1lb lighter then it’s not a lightweight bike. It has disc brakes lol. Put some light(ish) aero wheels on an actual light bike and there will be no difference between bikes.
@SeraStaplz
@SeraStaplz 3 жыл бұрын
I seem to remember GCN or GTN (or who knows which other cycling channel I've subscribed to by now) doing a video on this subject, except they went for a much steeper climbing course. He compared a light carbon road bike against a TT bike up a very aggressive climb. Strangely enough, even at the lower speeds, the TT bike beat out the the lighter bike by something like 2-3%.
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