Speedrunners Don't Know How To Enjoy Video Games

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Twitter has spoken and speedrunning is officially not fun. Today we will take a look at the myth that speedrunners don't understand how to play a game casually.
Lunatic J's explanation video: • How Speedrunners Beat ...
Savestate's run: • SSBB OoT Demo any% Spe...
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[@karljobst]

Don't disrespect your video games. Please, play them slowly. Get 20% Off + Free International Shipping by visiting manscaped.com/karljobst !

[@THICCTHICCTHICC]

> Don't disrespect your video games > Categorises this OoT video as a video about the game 'Speedrunners' Damn Karl

[@xiamaramu1538]

Games are fun, play them as fast or slow as you want. They should focus on people that want to any% speed run their lives instead.

[@Zulk_RS]

This comment speaks to me. I will now begin my journey to break the world record for slowest clear of Chrono Trigger. I will call it, "Slow Walk"

[@user-zl1yn6ys1c]

@@THICCTHICCTHICC dam u thicc

[@danielleanderson6371]

The wild thing is that many games released in recent years are made with speedrunning in mind. To play a game like Metroid Dread as quickly as possible is to show immense respect to the developers who went out of their way to make that possible.

[@SB737]

“How can you enjoy a game if you beat it in 4 minutes” The person that beat it in 4 minutes has played the game for thousands of hours to do that, I think they got a fair bit of enjoyment out of it

[@Mcdude02]

Speedrunners always look pretty miserable unless they get a world record

[@silverreaps6803]

@@Mcdude02 not really

[@Chaplain_Asmodai]

@@Mcdude02 yeah, and professional sports players look fuckin miserable when they lose, why do they play? it's not fun, right?

[@julianjolts5050]

@@Mcdude02 I guarantee you’ve never done a single thing in your life another human hasn’t before. Does that make you a miserable person?

[@gasasmk]

From my personal experience, mostly hate/anger, but yeah, enjoyment every now and then LOL

[@Groudon0199]

"Which is why every theme park ride *I've* ever been on lasted for many hours." If you count the queue as part of the ride, some rides *do* last for many hours.

[@asdbanz316]

Queue% speedrun

[@Nimmo1492]

I want to get off Mr. Bones Wild Ride!

[@a.velderrain8849]

Standing in line is obviously the fun part. Why would you stand in line for hours unless you enjoyed it? Obviously the 4 minute ride is not fun.

[@TheOneGuy1111]

@@Nimmo1492 I think, in this context, it's more a case of I want to get _ON_ Mr. Bones Wild Ride!

[@mattjindrak]

I went to Hersheypark over the summer and realized I don't have the patience for lines anymore

[@CYMotorsport]

As a former collegiate 100m sprinter, that analogy hit. We’d train 15-20 hours every single week year round to be over in 9-10 seconds. Training on its own was utter hell. The race devastates your nerves. But the outcome was worth it. Being able to consistently be quicker and more precise than anyone else is objectively fun as is reaching higher & trying to improve. You know I don’t speed run but I imagine that’s very similar to how you feel about it. Much like formula 1, too.

[@demonstone0]

I would argue sprinting is a form of speed running.

[@nondos9742]

Thats the thing with sports and I guess speedrunning. People don't see the hundreds of hours of hard work and dedication for a very slight improvement, and instead, they just see the end results and judge you on it with their very restricted point of view.

[@_SereneMango]

@@nondos9742 Reminds me of a comic about how sometimes graphic designers are mistreated because they can do their job in a few minutes... And such graphic designer responds that it took them a few years of learning and practice to be able to do their job in a few minutes. People that think shit can be done instantly without former training and knowledge live in their very isolated world. Even with talent you can only go so far without practicing and learning how to get better.

[@mbvglider]

@@demonstone0 Hahaha. Sprinting is very much literally speed running.

[@R_S747]

@@TheThreatenedSwan I'm pretty sure the point isn't that sprinting takes the most time of any sport ever to train for, just that the OP can relate to why speedrunning is fun

[@sticklyboi]

"speedrunning is disrespectful" to who 99% of game devs and companies dont give a shit about what people do in their games after release, who is it disrespecting

[@sticklyboi]

i hate twitter

[@randomperson093]

Probebly to their noob asses,game devs don't care about how people play a game as long as they buy it and 80% of the community doesn't give a shit most of the time

[@islandboy9381]

Twitter really is just the litmus test of being a whining idiot and getting away with it

[@alexusman]

and 1% is Nintendo

[@MrPineapple045]

@@alexusman heck, even Nintendo don't give a fuck if you speedrun their games. some of the most popular games to speedrun ever are Mario games

[@elheber]

To expand on the 100m sprint analogy, it's not just about the seconds it takes to complete that one race, but about the months of practice, training, hard work and dedication of the athletes that led them to this point.

[@KnakuanaRka]

Yeah, nobody seems to realize that these speed runners have probably played the game far longer than they have to figure out everything they do in that run.

[@fernandofaria2872]

Yeah, and its like those tweets are saying to Usain Bolt: "dude, why dont you just walk casually and enjoy the scenery and the audience" xD

[@Untolddead]

Well I think the other side would say that using glitches is like taking steroids which would be incorrect. I honestly think a better analogy would have been to say that the 100 meter is still loved even though there are longer races which use more of the track. Thus showing that both are legit and take skill even though one is shorter.

[@mbvglider]

You know how I think I've played a game so much if I've beaten it 7-8 times. A speed runner does that in a single day, lol.

[@thesphyrth]

I also apply that to my new hobby: Speedcubing We SPEND thousands of HOURS just to SHAVE OFF every MILLISECOND. Meaning that's how we TAKE TIME enjoying the game.

[@catchillingforthebus482]

As soon as I heard “Twitter has spoken” I was immediately like “Oh no. Not Twitter.”

[@KetsubanSolo]

Twitter? The same people that shame you for refunding a bad game if you beat it in under 2 hours???

[@monchete9934]

@@cypher5910 The funny thing is that IGN platforms a hefty amount of speedrunning content, most notably the one in which they have devs react to speedruns of their own games. So yeah, it's funny that IGN of all things is the most reasonable in that thread.

[@NinetyLegos]

Same

[@helloitismetomato]

tbh all of these replies were rightly being made fun of, it was a stupid minority

[@salmon85]

I prefer to call it "twatter"

[@MaskedDeath_]

The sprinting analogy was great, I think golf works particularly well here too. The whole point of the game is to play it as little as possible. When somebody hits a hole in one, it'd be silly to call him out for not enjoying the course properly.

[@alexmartinez5859]

Right!? Like they’re suppose to putt the whole course!? Yeah you could do it, but you’d be 70 over par by the 3rd hole and only get through 5 holes in one day.

[@cyberangel2787]

Golf is a pretty bad analogy since the courses are explicitly designed with that purpose. Most games are more akin to art galleries, however, where taking your time IS the intended way through them. It's still possible to use them for racing competitions but don't be surprised when other people would be weirded out.

[@MaskedDeath_]

@@cyberangel2787 I see your point, what I had in mind is not professional golf but casual - you meet up with friends, shoot the shit, and playing the game just creates a setting for you. In that case you might imagine you want to play as long as possible to spend more time with friends, but it's understandable that a competitive group of friends comes by and tries to outdo each other (by getting the lowest score). Again though, I absolutely see your point, and agree that the golf analogy wasn't perfect. I would say, though, that an art gallery isn't the same as well - I'd compare it more to a museum. You can spend hours walking around and admiring, but people also do museum tours where you try to see and read as much as you can, before moving on to the next museum, so that you can visit more museums in the same period of time. For some people rushing through the museum will be weird, but some will enjoy it.

[@dustin202]

@@cyberangel2787 there are some games designed to be speedrunned

[@Rickfernello]

Exactly, it makes even less sense.

[@Kozuu7]

I usually prefer my speedruns glitchless, feels a lot more like "beating the game" quickly, same for enjoying 100% over any%. That doesn't mean I can't respect people who try to break the game over beating it, two different skillsets, both impressive and way better than me lol.

[@seangiglio]

Yeah that’s the great thing about speedrunning, how there are several different categories for every game that allow the speedrunners to play the games however they want to.

[@cupriferouscatalyst3708]

Same. I'm so bored watching speedruns of my favorite game (Rayman 3) because the vast majority of the time is spent no-clipping through the void, but it just makes me happy knowing that other people out there like the game enough to play it over and over and over again.

[@hartonosutrisno5452]

What I like form speedrunning is how they did something incredible with lots of efforts and errors they did for years. But, at same time, Speedrunning is ruin your health because you are basically pushing yourself to absolute limit without being care on your own health. Many players always playing 8-12 hours per day without even seeing outside from house just for trying to beat the game by seconds or even miliseconds. I even can see how frustating they are by looking at their face after playing too long which is obvious when you saw their stream entire time especially doing marathon games. The most common method to prevent burnout/exhaustion is No Reset run which is applied on every game they play, too much reset only leads you to burnout even faster than No reset did

[@islandboy9381]

But is "glitchless" even seemingly possible? Even in those type of runs exploits of the mechanics/physics will be used to get a faster time, I think what bothers people more is when big glitches happen that skip a lot.

[@cupriferouscatalyst3708]

@@islandboy9381 good point! I know "glitchless" is a common category for some games, but I assume it's one that requires continuous reevaluation and for someone to keep a list of rules updated somewhere.

[@AverageTreyVG]

It was eye-opening to read that twitter thread and realize how many people are stuck in an early 2000's mindset on games

[@blackdragoncyrus]

Twitter is shit.

[@chitownsuperfan]

Twitter is full of literally the worst human beings on planet Earth lol. There's a reason I never re-downloaded it on my last 3 phones

[@BBWahoo]

@@chitownsuperfan I kept getting banned, so I stopped lol

[@itscomplicatedwatches]

So sad… Many of them are teenagers though and they don’t understand what a speed run really is.

[@harusrl]

its brings me joy seeing all of those comments its so funny to me lol

[@cynicalradicand]

Moral of the story: Twitter will find a reason to be angry about anything, *especially* if they know absolutely nothing about the topic at hand.

[@almiser]

you don't need to put the other part. Twitter is a meme.

[@xiaolin867]

@@almiser Twitter is fun to mock now, methinks. Is there even any good aspect of it?

[@wallyhackenslacker]

No wonder not even Jack Dorsey wants anything to do with it.

[@Lolp821]

Also that a good portion of the speedrunning community has some serious growing up to do

[@jironamos7650]

@@Lolp821 Not really, they live of that, and get income for doing so while also helping charities.

[@barkbuck5521]

I got pushback from people I knew when I started experimenting with games I had. Looking for glitches, testing AI behavior, and yes eventually finding ways to beat levels faster just as a natural progression of playing the game for years. It confused me so much because it's not like they didn't know I loved and played the hell out of those games, they just couldn't wrap their heads around getting enjoyment out of breaking the rules. They were looking at it in the same way as sports or board games, where notable cheating is either downright wrong or completely removed the challenge. I explained it to them by saying "It's not cheating if it's a new set of rules your following. Same pieces, different game mode. How many different rule sets exist in uno to spice things up?"

[@Lawofimprobability]

I get what you are saying. I don't play games that way (mostly I use the setting as fodder for my imagination) but I approach law that way and considering hypotheticals to see how rules can break is considered expected behavior for lawyers. Observing how rules can be broken is a kind of fun I think people can understand but they don't have the abstraction to see how computer program rules play into that.

[@magnatcleo2043]

And besides that, is it even cheating if you aren't using cheat codes. I certainly don't think so. Not to mention that if you aren't in a competition or or doing multiplayer, cheating shouldn't be a problem in the first place.

[@volvo09]

@@magnatcleo2043 agreed. The game itself is the set of rules, and the tools you have to work with. If the glitch is in the official version of the game and wasn't patched out, then you are still working with the set of tools the game provides you, nothing external was added. It's interesting in it's own manner, like Mario walking through bricks with a proper jump timing... It's in the game, you aren't adding anything that someone else can't do.

[@humbleheathen69]

The amount of technical and practical skill needed to pull of some glitches in certain games is insane. It's a whole new game at points, no longer are you just running and jumping on the goomba for the infinity-ith time in a row. Now your calculating angles and speeds in your head trying to get just the right spot and numbers to save less then 0.5 seconds all in the space of less then 10 seconds.

[@Elenrai]

Multiplayer might be why you got shit, might wanna add that detail bruh, what are the odds I found your little lie :) OP only did it in stellaris and only ran "meta" builds in a game where he begged to join, despite it being casuals only in our friendgroup, he knew ;)

[@Sleepy-qr9il]

The same people who go "speedrunners are not playing the game the fun way" or whatever way they want to play it are the same people who scream "just let people enjoy things" when their favorite game series are criticized.

[@delusion5867]

it boils down to "its either my way or the highway"

[@gdiridium5525]

they're probably also the same sort of people that demand games like Dark Souls or Sekiro have an easy mode "for accessibility" (even though it's a pretty bs reason)

[@Lumberjack_king]

@@gdiridium5525 like literally what disabled person is going to play dark souls also accessibility would be something like a color blind filter or subtitles

[@cptKamina]

@@gdiridium5525 Nah it's the exact opposite. The underlying mentality is "I want people to play game I like the way I do!".

[@Lumberjack_king]

@@mobamouse3616 yes

[@DeSinc]

it seems like an insecure mindset, like they think a speedrunner is simply launching the game that they love, beating it in a hacky way as their first playthrough, and then rating the game poorly based on that experience. all it ends up being is an oppressive opinion on how one SHOULD behave whilst inside a single-player video game, which is absolutely infuriating. the amount of people who tell me to play the game normally in my comments over the years is genuinely surprising. I do not understand what they think I am, some kind of robot that just boots the game up for the first time and begins flying to the finish instantly and then uninstalls the game? and I'm not even a speedrunner!

[@Nem0451]

Oh hey there Mr. Australia 👍👌

[@Ren99510]

They don't understand that Speedrunners are probably the type to love a game the most. Like you said, its not like they're booting up the game, beating it in 5 mins via an online guide their first run. Often these are the result of thousands of hours from dozens or hundreds of speedrunners, glitch hunters, and TASers. A community like that couldn't form without a love for these games.

[@legendgames128]

Ren being addicted isn't actually loving the thing you're addicted to. You've just told yourself that you need to do it.

[@Lolp821]

Hold up though, isn't the insecure mindset in those who speedrun and get "triggered" over other peoples' opinion? A lot of people like to be annoyingly competitive, but dislike it when they see it themselves, which is what speedrunning is, it's desperately trying to be number 1 in something that is seen as kind of pointless to the vast majority. Spending inordinate amounts of time in a game repeating something over and over to get it right is not going to be seen as time well spent, even to general gamers.

[@Tirocoa]

@@Lolp821 Bruh you wrote a dozen comments in this video belittling speedrunners and acting as if you are the only sane man. If that isn't insecure i don't know what is

[@dennisk.6988]

Of course we all know, nothing that last 4 minutes can be fun… thought you were going somewhere else with that

[@ericvilas]

"This video is sponsored by Manscaped!"

[@Okwardi]

Ahaha, get it? Because sex.

[@deathmetalalchemist5861]

yep, we were all thinking about rollercoasters there, definitely rollercoasters.....

[@Loserfr]

I guess there's at least one speedrun that isn't fun. Or is it?

[@DavidSGrop]

@@Okwardi Haha no one has sex for that long

[@DormianAranio]

“How can you have fun when you beat a game in only 4 minutes?” Well, by beating the game in 4 minutes.

[@youtube-kit9450]

Yeah, imo the "backlash" would have been nonexistent if ign hadn't made such a stupid clickbait title. If they had been like "SSBB gives you only 5 minutes in Ocarina of Time. People still managed to beat it. Suck on it, nintendo" or something, no one would have whined about it.

[@chrisknoblock]

It's the old "why don't you like what I Iike, the way I like it?" Speed running is like football to me, I like watching it, but I'll probably never do it.

[@zaknelthepony7124]

It's not like most games have a "no major glitches" category, or anything.

[@guidofedeli851]

"Even something as simple as learning about speedrunning strategies allows anyone to enjoy a game just that little bit more. As new things are discovered, it allows us to spend more time with the games we love." That's the purest essence of the message behind this video, and a great narrative shortcut I WILL use as a reply to all the comments who can't quite understand the fun factor behind speedrunning.

[@forgiveman]

Agree. I've learned how to Mockball in Super Metroid, some small glitches in Castlevania games, and some movement strategies from Super Mario Odyssey. And I'm not expert in those games, they just give new options in the playtroughs.

[@Nabekukka]

@@forgiveman Try a Super Metroid randomizer, it hits different when the item placement sometimes trolls you and you're forced to use sequence break mechanics and to think where you can go to get trolled next

[@CouncilOfTheLostGoats]

That's straight up the essence of enjoying anything, looking for excuses to play it so you constantly feel challenged.

[@MaskedDeath_]

Yeah. Portal has a great narrative and puzzle elements, but the entertainment diminishes exponentially with each playthrough - GLaDOS's lines aren't as funny when you know them by heart, and there's no real fun in "solving" puzzles you have memorized either. But when you give yourself a challenge to complete the game as fast as possible - it lets you enjoy re-playing the game over and over again, which would otherwise be mindnumbingly boring and the polar opposite of fun.

[@Lolp821]

Why does seemingly no one ever mention that the main motivation behind speedrunning is competition to be on a leaderboard? Speedrunning is not about enjoying the games content, it's about feeling like you're better than others by doing it the fastest. I can't wait to hear about some new mental illness related to speedrunning, denial over what motivates them to play the game as fast as possible no matter what.

[@Sword_Man_YT]

In my mind, you at least have to be having a little bit of fun to constantly speedrun a game for who knows how long to get a World Record...

[@NYCHeavyHitz212]

There’s definitely little fun in it IMO,(grinding us not fun) but the reward is even more fun than casual efforts.

[@eddiemate]

Not to mention many runners have stopped speedrunning games solely because they’ve stopped having fun with it. It’s not like we’re forced to keep playing the game because we said "yeah I’ll try speedrunning"

[@katiequeen7225]

@@eddiemate and some speedrunners even invent meme runs just for fun. no one would speedrun something if they didnt have some fun

[@Lolp821]

The fun though, is from trying to think that you're the best at the game, not because you're enjoying the content.

[@fica1137]

@@Lolp821 playing MMOs isn't fun even if you are playing casually?

[@markushavens8669]

Man, if these people don't understand the concept of speed running imagine how they would react to a TAS. Or more fittingly, react to the process of MAKING a TAS. Their head would explode.

[@asianjackass237]

I fell asleep watch TAS and even speedruns in general but know how the TAS is even made to begin with is fascinating

[@dycedargselderbrother5353]

"Making a TAS takes no skill" is my favorite. The most advanced TASes use skill sets practically identical to finding security flaws in software through fuzzing and reverse engineering, and some of the math used to determine optimal outcomes is graduate level.

[@markushavens8669]

@@dycedargselderbrother5353 Totally. Watching a 15 minute TAS is one thing. Knowing it took literally thousands of hours of real work to make that 15 minute TAS takes it to an entirely different level.

[@AtomicArtumas]

@@DelPlays "If people think TAS is played in real time using cheats, they have very wrong understanding of them." I've watched several get made. That's basically what the process was. Yeah, there was "more" to it, but that's the core of it. Repeatedly playing a section in real time until you succeed at the strat, and using external cheats to affect stuff like RNG. The entire process is different depending on what game you're playing, and something like Diablo is going to be MASSIVELY different to your average game, as stuff like TTYD, OoT, etc. don't have randomly generated maps, mobs, etc. The only major addition is repeatedly resetting and frame-by-frame playing for stuff like menuing and pixel-perfect pathing. But most games don't actually "need" frame-by-frame inputs for the entire run, only for menus or specific broken tricks.

[@animowany111]

@@AtomicArtumas It seems like you haven't watched a TAS, but some kind of segmented "theory" run. A TAS is just a sequence of inputs (button presses, joystick positions, mouse movements, ...), which when perfectly timed produces a particular run in some game. These are almost always produced with frame-by-frame advancing, or at the very least slowdown, as well as save-states, to go back to fix mistakes. Just doing this and playing normally then resetting on mistakes is not enough to produce a good TAS, although sometimes these kinds of runs are called LOTAD ("Low Optimization Tool-Assisted Demonstration"), or "Human Theory TAS". Real TASes are exceptionally impressive, include tricks that require inhuman precision, use extremely obscure details of the game to gain time, and usually do entertaining things in sections that can't otherwise be sped up. An interesting example of just how far TASes can go is pannenkoek2012's A Button Challenge videos, they are all TASes of individual Super Mario 64 levels, and show how adding a simple constraint, like pressing the A button as little as possible leads to incredible strategies, incredible gameplay, and how it requires insane understanding of what the game does 'under the hood'.

[@ayochill9716]

I’ve always causally enjoyed playing the Hitman franchise so when Hitman 3 released I played it and I really enjoyed myself! However I quickly tired of most of the levels after playing through them a few times each and experiencing most of the different ways I could eliminate my targets. During my time with the game I noticed that the final mission was extremely linear for a Hitman game and could be completed in around 10-20 minutes on a very casual play through for a very casual player. I decided that I wanted to see how fast I could get through the mission if I perfected my routes and learned everything that I could about the level. I ended up playing that ONE mission for more hours than I played any other content in the entire game, I grinded it for hours and hours perfecting my route and my run until I got a time I was satisfied with! My pathing felt almost perfect, the AI and NPC’s did what I hoped they would do and I felt as though there was very little room for improvement. My time ended up being good enough for 11th place on the Xbox leaderboards with a 5 star silent assassin rating and I was so excited! I felt like I had just accomplished a fun personal feat! I’ve never speedran games before and I haven’t since; but the experience was one of the most memorable and fun I’ve ever had in my gaming career of over 20 years. Speedrunning is a great time, It’s unique, and challenging, it felt like a completely new experience to me which is rare after 20+ years of gaming; I encourage everyone to try it!

[@seqka711]

I remember watching Claris run Fire Emblem Three Houses at AGDQ, and I think she said something like "You have to play a game slowly to beat it quickly". Which makes perfect sense! Creating routes, studying the games, practicing techniques, grinding a competitive category, these things take a long ass time.

[@drakeramsay3901]

Exactly. How can you speedrun a game if you don't have information on the map/enemy placement/potential glitches/the movement itself and how to utilize it efficiently to go faster/using power ups to make you go faster(if the game in question has any to speak of)/shortest routes. P.S : Did I miss anything?

[@abhinandhari7812]

@@drakeramsay3901 i would add difference in game versions

[@futureddude4250]

Actually true, if you dont take the time to learn it you can’t beat it quickly, thus you have to beat it slowly

[@mastersword48]

Exactly. In order to speedrun a game you have to master it, which in itself is a feat to be proud of. Going that extra step to speedrun it earns some mad respect from me

[@Lolp821]

@@drakeramsay3901 Surprisingly I don't see people mentioning the real motivation behind speedrunning which is the overly competitive mind frames. To empower themselves that they're doing something special and that they're better at it. Speedrunning = Competition. Desperately finding the fastest route etc is because of competition, to feel that they're better than others beyond just your friend circle. I watch this channel regularly, but this video and comment is an echo chamber of passive aggressive "We're not triggered, but we really are" because the large majority don't agree with you, and they have a point.

[@djroscurro9859]

While I’ve never been into the super glitchy speedruns, (I’ve always liked the more stylish ones) I’m fascinated by the fact that people figured these things out at all. I can always appreciate the fact that people are trying to push a game to it’s limits after already having their fun casually. Learning how those glitched runs work has always been interesting for me.

[@cykablyat1466]

The beauty of speedrunning is that there really is something for everyone. I don't really enjoy the 10 minute runs of triggering the ending credits for OoT but many people do, that's great. There's a dozen other categories to enjoy if I don't want to watch that. I don't understand the Twitter hate, it just sounds like some uneducated hate, glitchless and 100% runs exist if you don't like extreme glitch and bug abusing.

[@jj48]

@@cykablyat1466 Or even just watching casual "Let's Play"s if speedrunning isn't someone's thing. Personally, I'm not interested in watching sports, but that doesn't mean I begrudge the very existence of sports, since I know plenty of people who do enjoy watching them, and I can always watch something else that interests me more.

[@squirrel_killer-]

I strongly recommend looking for low% speedruns rather than any% if you like seeing stylish runs, often they are longer to watch, but show off some silly stuff because what is being done to avoid something. Unless they are the same thing, then look for a "all X" speed run. A great example of this is Mario Odyssey minimum captures. You see movement and glitches that absolutely put to shame the movement and glitches in any% in their style and, in several cases, difficulty to execute. Yet despite that the WR is almost 20 minutes longer.

[@defensivekobra3873]

Nothing beats the fact that dk's location data in dk64 is stored in the balls

[@celem91]

Some of the manipulations are insane when you find out what's going on under the hood. The dedication needed to find memory overflows and then inject the desired code....legends

[@melon6444]

"How can you have fun when you beat the game this quickly?" Doesn't matter because the person did, in fact, have fun. How they could have enjoyed it doesn't matter, all that matters is that they did, and if someone is upset that a complete stranger had fun with a video game in a way they personally wouldn't enjoy, then they really need to reassess their priorities.

[@adam-vm3zj]

It's funny how racing games are about being the fastest, and it's loved. Turn any game into a who's the fastest game, people criticize. It's a different game at that point, for which the original game is only the framework.

[@petros_adamopoulos]

Some people's priorities are speak first, act never. It's obvious that regardless of how bad they are at games, and they're very bad, they never have tried and thus only speculate something is "easy".

[@ElSSBM]

Exactly, if speedrunning was "boring and easy" then why would runners spend thousands of hours just to improve a time by a few seconds. Not only because the satisfaction when you finally improve that time is irreplaceable, but also because the grind is just enjoyable.

[@citizenvulpes4562]

It's funny because to get a good time in speed running you usually have to put hundreds of hours into the game first.

[@sticklyboi]

@@henrysokol3466 are you disabled

[@Toschez]

“Running a game in x minutes” sounds super short until you realise speedrunning requires millions of it (while having fun of course, nobody is forced to do it).

[@Geckur0]

I’ve never fully speedrun a game, but I have used speed running techniques to get through certain parts of games quicker. I used to start fresh borderlands 2 characters near constantly, and that snowy hellscape you start in started to get annoying, so I checked out some speed runs and used some of the strategies to get through that part more quickly so I could get into the meat of the game faster.

[@bizw]

too bad you couldnt enjoy your gsmeplay though

[@Nabekukka]

What a way to disrespect the level designers, animators, artists, writers and voice actors and probably a bunch of other people I'm missing here by speeding through that section instead of playing it normally and waiting for Claptrap to finish talking before he opens up doors, you're supposed to wait and enjoy those moments where you can't do anything, so stop doing it wrong and enjoy the unskippable cutscenes like the rest of us, cheater.

[@xvideogamegodxn77jak]

I don't blame you that entire section is so boring on repeat playthrus. It basically detours me from playing through the game again at times lol.

[@improvisestudios]

same but I do it for minecraft

[@fatranga]

I do this for ff7 so many statagies

[@PerramCrowe]

Great analogy with usain bolt

[@Toadiferous]

I remember back when he first discovered Hurdle Skip. Really changed the game of 100m sprint.

[@penguindb0912]

He doesn’t enjoy running as much as I do since it takes me longer to run 100 meters.

[@FourthRoot]

I think this is a way for people to preserve their pride about beating a game. When you first play a game, especially a long adventure game like OoT, it takes a lot of time and effort to figure it all out. When I was a kid I remember bragging my accomplishments in various games on the playground. When you see someone use a glitch to beat a level faster than you could even imagine it's tempting to rationalize it as "cheating", so that you can still cling to the image you have of yourself as the best, or at least pretty good. So you'll label the glitches as cheating and that you still play the game as it was intended, even though you utilize a couple glitches and shortcuts yourself because it's easier than admitting that these players out of your league in terms of skill.

[@FourthRoot]

@@HugoStiglitz88 But he doesn't run the full marathon.

[@bouboulroz]

@@HugoStiglitz88 And the Metroid Prime 100% speedrunner takes all the upgrades in the game, the Super Mario Sunshine glasses% speedrunner play until they can get the sunglasses, and the no damage Dark Souls speedrunner finishes the game without taking any damage. All of them stays within the rules set by their respective category of competition.

[@captainfalcon8615]

So many bro's heart sunk into their stomach when he said "how can anything that only lasts 4 minutes be fun?" And then bros rejoiced when he followed up with the theme park ride analogy 🤣

[@PruneNut]

Realistically, I would imagine that anybody who speedruns a game has done AT LEAST one normal play-through before learning to speedrun it. Regardless, speedrunners wouldn’t even be speedrunners if they didn’t have fun doing it. At the end of the day, it’s a GAME. It’s entertainment. How YOU have fun is not for other people to decide.

[@Kumquat_Lord]

Not always the case, I remember watching some parts of the Awful block at GDQ where the runner straight up said "yeah I tried beating this casually but it's basically impossible". That just makes the run more enjoyable IMO.

[@Locked_Character]

@@Kumquat_Lord That's the minority.

[@ShortHax]

Twitter users when someone beats a game in a way other than exactly what the developers intended

[@josephstone2112]

Does that mean Twitter is actually Nintendo themselves?

[@zyansheep]

Its human nature to break and put back together whatever we get our hands on

[@cornpop2630]

Play the game how you want, but playing the way the designers and developers intended will always be the superior and far more valuable experience.

[@thehen101]

Twitter needs to go.

[@yourlocalcrackhead]

@@cornpop2630 not necessarily, for example CoD: WW2, the campaign on the hardest difficulty is easy af so adding extra challenges on top is a far greater experience then the intended experience.

[@KassidyPhantom]

"You can't have fun beating a game in 4 minutes!!" Funny thing is.. speedrunners don't just pick up a game and beat it and call it a day. No. They grind at it for 100's of hours on end. Sure, they can beat the game pretty quick, but their playtime with that game is huge.

[@KetsubanSolo]

They spend lots of time on a game in order to spend less time in a game.

[@myselft36yearsago]

I would assume that this the reason why most people think speed running isn't fun, just due to the amount of time you need grind in, while yes the history of it and the discoveries made are enjoyable, however this only applies to a small amount of people in the community, most of the time you'll see people developing unhealthy tendencies, take this from a guy who use to be addicted to video games Like I due genuinely enjoy these Speedruns, it's just impressive to watch someone really skilled at game, and most of the time they are for a god cost

[@darchocla]

Yeah beating the game in 4 minutes is fine. Playing the game fully through 400x? That's what sounds not fun about speed running.

[@V-for-Vendetta01]

It’s about drive, it’s about power, we stay hungry, we devour Put in the work, put in the hours and take what’s ours

[@simic0racle157]

yeah like this one dude sat down one day and and decied to play Oot for the first time ever and beat it in 5 mins only to never pick it up again? people come to ridiculous conclusions.

[@davekeenanpayne]

Enjoyment is subjective. Personally I don’t try to speed run games as it’s not something I want to do but it is something I respect. People who want to go faster and faster get their own challenge and enjoyment from the games. I guess to each their own is my point.

[@JamesScholesUK]

Devs: "5 mins should be just enough to get people to go and play the original" *Link appears, holding nothing above his head* Devs: "Oh shi-"

[@iluxa-4000]

"Nothing that lasts 4 minutes can ever be fun" That's what she said :(

[@VincentGonzalezVeg]

What's a refractory period? Im unfamiliar with needing to stop

[@SeaCryptWeave]

*invents marriage* tormenting a life for life is much more pleasurable!

[@Vandil_the_Rogue]

I wondered how far down I'd have to scroll to see this lol

[@デススマイルズ1]

"Twitter has spoken" struck fear into my soul

[@AvaiLeon]

You're giving them far more credit than they deserve.

[@user-ke1gn3ql1g]

I started imagining the most insane stupid shit they could say about speed running as soon as i heard that and Twitter still surprised me lol

[@methos4866]

For me, i just rolled my eyes. Twitter and pretty much any social media is shit.

[@snadi10]

Awesome video Karl! I just have one thing I disagree with, which is stating that speedrunners love a particular game more than a casual player. I don't think that's really fair to say. The love someone has for a game is such a personal thing that I think it's silly to say that someone loves a game more than someone else just because they've spent more time with and done more things with it. Players love games for different reasons, and I think trying to compare that between players by measuring things like time spent playing or knowledge of secrets and glitches is a little narrow minded.

[@henrysokol3466]

I know a kid, who came up to me shortly after he had had some light-weight experience with Skyrim to ask what I found an annoyingly foolish question: "What's the best kind of weapon?" He honestly expected instant one-stop shopping, without giving me any information what he thought were factors. That demonstrates the principle well. There's no one type and material for ordinary weaponry that's totally superior for everyone. Dragonbone, for example, does heaviest damage but is heavy as hell and is slow on the strike. The stylistics of it may also not be for everyone or their character, either: some weapons made of it don't blend well with any other kit or are just ass-ugly. And one has to be extremely patient to find the weapon they want in stores or loot, rather than defeating dragons and hauling a cartload of supplies to a forge after becoming an elite blacksmith.

[@bjiggles8145]

Parent A: I love my kids! (spends 8 hours a day with them doing all kinds of stuff) Parent B: I love my kids too! (spends very little time with them and does other things, sometimes wonders when they'll move out) Yeah, I guess you're right, both parents seem to love their kids equally. Silly to say that one is showing more love than the other based just on time spent and doing more with them.😏

[@unavailableun]

Karl Jobst: is making great video The background footage: is of Skyrim Me: a glitchless speedrun of Skyrim is probably one of the hardest challenges in existence

[@ninjafrog6966]

impossible challenge: beat skyrim without encountering a single glitch

[@Kalaphant]

​@@ninjafrog6966 Or even harder: Beat Pokémon Red/Blue/Yellow without encountering a single glitch I think that is is literally impossible, since the unskippable opening cutscene has a glitch XD

[@schlopping]

"Twitter has spoken" is the scariest thing on earth

[@JanbluTheDerg]

I think the misunderstanding comes from the "Beat the game quickly" aspect. People think that for speedrunners, they pick up the game for maybe the first or second time, then ignore everything it has to offer to beat it quickly. When in actuality, speedrunners know the game by that point just as much if not more than the developers themselves, they've far and beyond earned their money's worth for the game, and they love the game. I think that is what people are missing when they criticise speedrunning.

[@wassup4532]

I mean people dont really criticise speedrunning by itself. Its mostly that its hard to understand speedruns that are so glitchy people barely play the game. Like in Pokemon you can literally beat the game in less than 20 seconds but nobody cares about that category. The same is true for Ocarina, its popularity has sunk after memory manipulation became a thing. I feel glitches by themselves dont ruin speedruns unless they made them too short. What kinda ruins user experience is obscure things like warping to credits, opening dev console or glitching memory.

[@aubreyh1930]

@@wassup4532 I don’t think it ruins the run at all to glitch it so much like that, I find it fascinating. The run itself may not be as fun to watch but learning about why it works definitely is

[@wassup4532]

@@aubreyh1930 Yeah but once you learn it you stop caring about wrs or who is the fastest imo. If you show this speedrun to anyone that is not familiar with it they wont understand the appeal. If you show them botw or sm64 they do.

[@atomiccritter6492]

I would argue that most individual speedrunners do NOT know more than a games developers BUT the speedrunning community as a collective DOES. I would say that the runners DO ignore almost every aspect of a game apart from beating it quickly. Watch some Minecraft speedrunners and their OVERALL knowledge of the game is patchy at best... and dont get me started about some of the runners fans Ultimately its down to the runner to decide IF they are enjoying the game - I personally hate games which require a grind and mainly that is what speedrunning is

[@atomiccritter6492]

@@wassup4532 I agree there are a number of games where its just ridiculous I recall someone get WR in a version of Scrabble simply by grinding to get an ai opponent to pass play 3 times...its very unusual but grind enough and youll get it

[@TheIllegalGuy]

Simply put It's the age old argument "You're having fun wrong"

[@ski_ba]

Karl: "Hey, here is some awesome content" Also Karl: "Hey don't forget to shave your balls" Love you Karl

[@-Raylight]

Devs : *"We'll give 5 minutes demo, no one is going to complete it, right"* Speedrunners : *"That's more than enough"* Yeah I agree wholeheartedly. For me it's the quite the opposite, speedrunners really know how to enjoy video games They play the same games, discovering new things, and new ways that casual/normal players can't. No one can do that without enjoying the games.

[@TheExFatal]

Extreme dedication doesn't always equal enjoyment

[@lolicongang.4974]

@@TheExFatal Lol right yes I just played the game for the 100th time. Trying to see how to get it done faster. :l is it fun? Most times no. Lol I could be playing something else but I am spending thousands of hours on one game.

[@xiamaramu1538]

i watch fallout speedrunners, they play on a level i will never be able to. Still i like to try and fail though. As for goldeneye, with the bonus options locked behind timed events, they encourage speedrunning to get through levels quikly.

[@kostaspapas3202]

But you can play without having fun, it's called being addicted..

[@linhero797]

@@TheExFatal Yes I can beat Doom in under an hour because I am dedicated. It has nothing to do with my love for the game. Just dedication. Speedrunners don't just suddenly appear for games. They appear beceuse they love a game.

[@jessejukuri5202]

It's hard to imagine a greater tribute or expression of love for a game than really learning to speedrun it. And no, I'm no speedrunner (for many reasons), I just enjoy the ride.

[@fumoffu_l]

As someone who does enjoy speed running games (no where close to high up on leader boards mind you) for fun, I can tell you, the games I like to run, happen to be my favorite games that I either grew up with, or just find a lot of enjoyment playing. I've started studying Metroid Dread runs. I played through the game 5 times before even watching a run. I wanted to unlock every gallery piece before I dove in. I didn't even intend to run it. I just fell in love with the game half way through my first playthrough, and upon seeing the WR time, decided to learn it. I run games that I love playing. It really doesn't go much further than that.

[@player1videogames128]

@@fumoffu_l that is a cool way to look at it I never thought about - playing your favorite games over snd over and soeedrunning through makes sense to me now

[@xiaolin867]

@@fumoffu_l The best speedrunner mindset: Speedrun the games you actually enjoy playing. Good on you, Daniel!

[@sirteabag8652]

when Karl said "nothing 4 minutes could be fun", I was thinking about something else entirely XD

[@exxor9108]

To me, watching a glitched speedrun is just as fun as watching a glitchless one. I know that these speedrunners put more hours into a single video game than I've ever played video games. And since they find the game they've chosen fun to play, I can't argue that. Kudos to the speedrunners who can succeed in breaking their favorite games wide open for our personal entertainment!

[@Atlaon7012]

ill say fuck speed runners, especialy in mmo like games where you forced to play with other people in missions like in destiny 2 for example

[@Falcrist]

Karl: "nobody in their right mind would try to beat this demo" Also Karl: "let me introduce you to speed runners"

[@prgnify]

welp, the venn diagram between people int heir right minds and speedrunners are two circles, confirmed

[@legendgames128]

@@prgnify You're trying to square a circle.

[@TheRedCap30]

If someone beats a game in under 4 minutes, they know it inside and out. They've probably researched stuff on both the technical and lore level of the game to the point where they are like an encyclopedia about the game's mechanics and unique quirks that make it interesting to them. They aren't "disrespecting" a game by beating it fast, they are just pushing its mechanics to their potential since they love it so much.

[@marqimoth6987]

i completely agree with this, if someone beats the game the fastest, they probably love the game and put more hours into it than your dumbass complaining that someone is playing a game "wrong"

[@legendgames128]

Or, here's a thought, they are addicted.

[@diegomedina9637]

@@legendgames128 That too.

[@joedav67]

@@legendgames128 I think you’re addicted to video games and are just projecting

[@legendgames128]

@@joedav67 Projecting onto me that's for sure

[@aurthurpendragon1015]

Something he didn't mention is that many people often resort to speedrunning because they've played a game so many damn times that it's becoming boring to them to pay it normally, because of the sheer number of times.

[@ZoofyZoof]

I don't understand why people like speedrunning. But I don't have to, because I'm smart enough to understand people like different things than I, and it's fun to watch.

[@elliejohnson2786]

I remember telling someone their favourite game (Morrowind) was completed in under 5 minutes. He got extremely angry at me and told me they were cheating and don't understand the game. Funny.

[@TheOneTrueMar]

Well... glitches are a form of cheats. They do allow you to "cheat" by skipping large chunks of the game. So yeah... the game was finished by "cheating". There are people who don't care about that and those that do. Nobody has any duty to enjoy everything.

[@elliejohnson2786]

@@TheOneTrueMar Cool. It's not really cheating in a conventional sense, though.

[@asdbanz316]

It is natural to suggest that someone used console to complete game that fast. While the point that game allows to do it so fast. I mean you can complete Fallout 2 legitimetally in a matter of minutes, and I haven't seen anyone complaining (maybe because legimit sequence break is better than glitching into the wall).

[@elliejohnson2786]

@@asdbanz316 no one said console lol

[@kolskytraveller1369]

@@TheOneTrueMar you're wrong. Cheating in games is a way to get an unfair advantage. Glitches may be performed by anyone with enough knowledge and skill. They also don't break the game's rules.

[@muddslideofficial3185]

I remember seeing the Super Mario 64 A Button Challenge, I thought to myself, "Why would anyone play the game that way? Who would do all of this when I'm pressing the A Button whenever I want?" I eventually realized it was because imposing restrictions on yourself makes the solutions more interesting. This also applies to speedrunning in general because it's fun to try to figure out how you could go even faster. That's what speedrunning is about.

[@ENCHANTMEN_]

No one loves a video game more than the people who completely break it apart.

[@dangerszewski9816]

I compare challenge mores like that to writing poetry in set form. no one tells a haiku writer or someone writing in rhyme or meter "why would you want to use only PART of the English language?! you could express yourself better without those restrictions!"

[@5omebody]

@@dangerszewski9816 i feel like it applies to most forms of creative expression in general. but on the topic of games specifically... that's like people who play games hardcore (permadeath, e.g. minecraft) or solo (without trading, e.g. path of exile). applies even more to roguelikes - especially, say, CDDA - you could say "what's the point of spending so much time building a base just for you to die (and subsequently pose access to said base)

[@gaganzanwar]

To The people who think that speedrunning takes away the joy of a game: People put more than a 1000 hours in a game, so that they could beat it in under 10 minutes. Plus do you really think that those guys have Speedran the game since they got, and they did not play it casually in their first playthrough?

[@Lolp821]

To the people who don't understand why other people who aren't into speedrunning think that. Spending that amount time just to flaunt that you beat a game in x minutes is not going to make sense to those who don't do it/aren't fans. Gaming communities pre-mainstream at the time (gamers who just liked gaming) seen speedrunning and laughed at it because of the time they are technically wasting just to be on a leaderboard...for nothing. It's like being a nerd times four or five. News of things like the ocarina time isn't going to make normal gamers go "WoW that's amazing". I truly dislike that it was reported or covered by this channel, as it only brings out the "You just don't understand us and what we have" portion of the community.

[@Markus-8Muireg]

There are games that aren't 25 years old. There are new games that people speedrun, some of them before even casually playing them. Thoose people ruin their first and most important impression of the game, just to get an easy world record. I think you could say that players like this disrespect the game and only care about the "go fast". I just want to say there are speedrunners who don't speedrun because they love the game so much, you generalize every speedrunner into someome who played his favourite game of all time for thousands of hours, but get mad when someome does the same for the other end of the spectrum.

[@joedav67]

@@Markus-8Muireg nobody speedruns a game without properly playing it first. You can’t form a route if you don’t know what to expect

[@joedav67]

@@Lolp821 So belittling people’s hobbies is cool and good? Is that all you wanted to say?

[@AtomicArtumas]

I've watched at least 6 people half-speedrun a game on their first playthrough, never do another "remotely casual" run, and go full into speedrunning it. "people don't speedrun games without playing it casually first" is literally objectively, provably, wrong. Clue speedruns. "Variety speedrunners" that don't even play games "normally". Mario runners playing the newest Mario game for the first time. Etc. etc. Saying runners always play a game casually first honestly shows just as much lack of understanding of the speedrunning community as a whole as the people that say people that speedrun don't play games casually first and don't know anything about the game.

[@GrayCatbird1]

Your rebuttal of "criticisms" of speedrunning actually helped me understand where these people are coming from and what misunderstandings may underpin their judgment. That's the sign of an outstanding argument, when all the assumptions and points of contention are accurately pinpointed

[@NightKev]

It's less "misunderstandings" and more "utter ignorance". They know nothing about the thing they're talking about, but act as if their opinion is the only one that matters.

[@junkolover9518]

@@NightKev that's what we get for "every opinion is important" dogma, people just throw opinions around with no guilt for being wrong.

[@Lolp821]

Lol an outstanding argument? Argument/debate is the calling card of the modern pseudo intellectual. Your parents could take part in an argument respectfully, but it's all just a kids game now of feeling like you won. Sad sad sad.

[@joedav67]

@@Lolp821 Jesus dude, do you have anything better to do than troll this comment section?

[@NightKev]

@RaniaIsAwesome Criticisms of the video? Of speedrunning? Also, if you say you agree with *all* criticisms of a thing, then obviously you agree with the "worst" ones as well, so it can't possibly be "strawmanning" in that case.

[@SpaveFrostKing]

Imagine gatekeeping someone's hobbies. "Oh you entered the Boston marathon? You're supposed to enjoy casually walking around Boston while shopping and going to restaurants!"

[@aubreyh1930]

“Oh you only made a simple sandwich? You’re supposed to make a 5 star restaurant worthy 4 course meal!”

[@legendgames128]

@@aubreyh1930 "Oh, you want to play the game legitimately? No world record for you!"

[@no1uno388]

@@legendgames128 why would you want world record for something anyone can do?

[@darklazerx7913]

Nintendo: "Oh you play meele competitively? You're supposed to play ultimate casually with items"

[@HyLion]

@@legendgames128 If thats what you want, the glitchless category leaderboard is right there

[@martinthegamer9040]

'Of course, nothing that lasts only 4 minutes could ever be fun' 'Which is why every theme park ride i have ever been on lasted for many hours' this had me rolling on the floor, not joking

[@VelkanAngels]

His relentless sarcasm is one of my favourite things about him, lol. Well, it's on top 5 anyway.

[@Mike_Toreno]

Yup, that's why I take an hour to eat my food; because it's fun that way. Clearly my parents don't understand.

[@heliusuniverse7460]

i want to get off mr. bones' wild ride

[@thesovietkevin7275]

im sure u laughed but im sure u werent rolling all over the floor

[@aubreyh1930]

@@thesovietkevin7275 there’s this really cool thing called a hyperbole you should learn about it

[@Coreagrus]

I'll be honest, most of this video just reiterates what I already know: Twitter is stupid. Speedrunning is impressive and respectable, just like the olympics, even though I have little interest in either of the two. Why comment this then? Well, I did find some common ground. It's very awesome indeed when you learn a speedurnning strat, which seems really fun to you personally, and you can use it when replaying an old game. I really like Crash Bandicoot 2 even more now. Neutral slide-spin is incredible - I wouldn't know how to design a secret tech. that's better than it for moving fast - it's so fun! In the end though, I prefer other avenues to speedrunning, generally. Score running, since I love arcade games, and shoot-em-ups in particular; hitless/no damage/no-miss clears, whichever you prefer or applies best(I really like the idea that it's even possible and consistent, regardless if I can't do it); and specialized challenge runs for specific games.

[@qinram]

“Nothing that lasts 4 minutes could ever be fun” So that’s why my sex life is so bad

[@thefollower2933]

lol

[@bjiggles8145]

Nobody told you what foreplay is for? *sigh*, It's not "a waste of time" dood, it's to get past the magic 4 minute mark, Duh! >_

[@hinder10709]

Speed runners absolutely enjoy video games. Just in a different way than intended. And that's great. I enjoy video games too. Usually in easy mode and occasionally with cheats (though never in multiplayer). I like playing the story. Some like playing the mechanics. Who cares? I appreciate the skills of speed runners and I'm more than certain they enjoy what they do.

[@Lolp821]

They just apply the overly competitive mindset in online games to single player campaigns. These people are saying that speedrunners are not doing a speedrun to enjoy the content of the game, which is true, they are doing it to feel like they're number 1 in something that really isn't a "true" accomplishment in the grand scheme of life.

[@nocto6715]

I guess you're right, its a matter of how you want the experience to be more than the games themselves, but alas...those screaming, frustrated people dont seem like they're enjoying what they do, like this bro says it really looks like competing over something that only they care, and while trying to get it, stress themselves out

[@johnchesterfield9726]

@@Lolp821 You: competition = bad If you think competition is such a bad thing, we wouldn’t have the Olympics. I mean, what does a gold metal mean in the grand scheme of things anyway? Isn’t everything you do ultimately pointless in the grand scheme of things? Why not just have some fun and enjoy things while you still can? Who are you to judge what a “true accomplishment in the scheme of life” is?? Stop projecting your ideals onto other people. Some people enjoy competition because it’s a challenging goal that takes hard work, effort, patience, and a meticulous admiration for precision and mastery. All of these things makes it very rewarding to have finally achieved the goal you have set yourself to do. That is what they enjoy, and they aren’t wrong to enjoy it simply because some obnoxious judgmental asshole like you deems it as “not a true accomplishment in life”. If a personal accomplishment is meaningful to someone, then it _is_ a true accomplishment in their life.

[@legendgames128]

Addiction exists.

[@atomiccritter6492]

@@johnchesterfield9726 you seem a little butthurt that someone has a different opinion than you and Lolp is right - in the end its only a game

[@gazs7237]

"you can have a free copy of Zelda but you only have fiv...." "Done"

[@YouLoveBeef]

I love how they are telling speedrunners who play 10s of thousands of hours of the same game, to 'take their time' and enjoy the game lol. This all smells of people who just recently discovered gaming, as speedrunning is a perfectly logical evolution of gaming since the 80s. For most of gamings life, it has been about execution, points, skill, and yes, speed. Only in recent history have games turned to being about "immersion" and "story". (which are fine concepts, dont get me wrong) It's weird to see how new adopters of a hobby often tend to act the most entitled to it. Another great video, and great run.

[@notredboi]

"Twitter has spoken" That's where the problem starts

[@skull_182]

Normie: "How can anyone enjoy a game beating it in 4 minutes??" Speedrunner: "Well, I actually clocked hundreds of hours playing it to do this" Normie: "How can anyone play a game for SO LONG???"

[@RobertF-zj2rm]

this ^ people just want to complain and pull things down to their level. if there was an article about someone breaking a record for playing a game the longest, this is exactly what would happen.

[@renem.5852]

@@RobertF-zj2rm better not telling them about the low% twilight princess speedruns where link watches at a ruby for 17 hours D:

[@legendgames128]

That's called addiction.

[@RobertF-zj2rm]

@@renem.5852 that’s actually a scathing commentary on consumerism. i read a think piece about it on Medium.

[@remizu2901]

Some people have gotten over 10k hours in games.

[@AvangionQ]

Speedruns usually have multiple categories, including but not limited to Glitched Any% & No Glitches Any% If you have a favorite, there's plenty of fun to be had in optimizing a game in the category you seek to rule

[@LoordDoggo]

I think that speedruning a game is in fact a form of respect for the game. If you don't care for a game you won't spend time learning all the speedruning techniques, polish them and try to perfectly implement everything into one run. Doing so shows that you are passionate about the game and that you take it seriously, not just as a simple game that you brush of to the side.

[@smojoycon8780]

Thank you for making this video, I saw these comments and couldn’t explain how impactful speedrunning is and how much it has helped me enjoy my favourite games.

[@bencheevers6693]

I don't understand why people have to force their perspective onto others, I absolutely understand the criticism, that some people see no value in speedrunning and especially speedrunning that doesn't resemble normal gameplay at all, why do those people feel like they need to shit on the people who do value the pursuit of excellence in that category. It's a hobby, there's objective metrics and a way to measure your own progress and a community surrounding the hobby. The criticism rings hollow, nobody is forcing you to change the way you play games, why do they feel so entitled that the way they play their games must be the way everybody else does?

[@cthulublade5223]

It's Twitter, that's why. And in the wise eords of Dave Chapelle, "Twitter ain't a real place."

[@Mitchello457]

Exactly. That is also why Nintendo as while has been falling down my list of game creators. People think I am crazy for not liking when Nintendo purposely takes out Speedrun mechanics that the average player could never do on accident. Instead of embracing these new things that their most dedicated players have found, they punish them by patching these things out. Why are they taking tools put of the toolbox that most people don't even know exist.

[@dopaminecloud]

You ever see videos of kids under 6 years old that get angry when they see another kid having fun with something? This happens irregardless of what the other kid is having fun with.

[@atomiccritter6492]

@@Mitchello457 thats basically saying that game designers should only cater for speedrunners which lets face it are in the minority of game players

[@legendgames128]

@@cthulublade5223 Neither is KZbin, but you keep going there anyways.

[@Arkaine197]

The anger towards the glitched speedruns is because when casual players hear about "world records" and "the best in the world" they expect to go and look to see the top players playing something that looks similar to what they're doing when they play. When it comes to Ocarina they picture in their head top players as people using innovative strategies for tackling enemies and executing precision timing to dodge boss attacks, because those are the expressions of skill that the game teaches you to develop in casual play and they feel cheated when they come to watch people considered the elite players of the game performing different things entirely and skipping the hardest parts of the game. A somewhat similar phenomenon to this happened in professional League of Legends a few years ago, as strategies evolved in pro play it became clear that the dominant strategic play was to swap your lanes so that the solo laner who usually goes in the top lane plays against the duo lane who are usually in the bottom lane. The analysts and commentators all loved this because it was the next evolution of the League pro meta and it brought a much more macro-focused playstyle to the game. However the casual players despised it because the pro meta no longer looked like the games they would play, the skill expression changed from trying to win lane against your opponent to trying to move around the map and take objectives the fastest (something largely impossible in casual play due to lack of team cohesion) so eventually Riot had to make changes to kill the laneswap meta and force pro play back into line with casual play.

[@aubreyh1930]

So in other words people go “boo hoo I don’t play like the best players.” As if they couldn’t learn to play like that too

[@Arko777777]

I don't know why people have so much problem with glitched speedruns when glitchless categories exist. Just watch those Twitter...

[@atomiccritter6492]

@@aubreyh1930 I think you are missing the point

[@legendgames128]

@@Arko777777 Any%, and Any% Glitched.

[@ForeverLaxx]

What's particularly humorous about that League example is that when the game was newer, people expected to have to 1v2 the top lane and many choices at the time were top laners who could either lasthit effectively while being zoned, or could lasthit/survive while under the tower. Some Champions could even win the 1v2 if you were dumb enough to dive them under the tower, like Nasus. When the meta shifted full circle back to its starting point though, the playerbase had become entrenched in their "defined roles" and refused to adapt their picks, forcing Riot to do what they had been doing for years by that point -- enforce a meta. Unfortunately, they chose to enforce the wrong one, but Riot making bad decisions is pretty much their only consistent aspect.

[@Tuntor689]

Portal 1’s always a blast to speedrun, it’s so much fun seeing how fast you go and finding new strategies to put into your run. I’ve replayed Portal 1 countless times, beating it in around 30 minutes. I would never replay the game if I didn’t how to break it and play unconventionally. It just wouldn’t be fun knowing the solutions to the puzzles.

[@Zeru64_]

I run Portal 1 myself. I've spent hundreds of hours on that... but always is a good time to play it "casually". The dialogs are hell of a fun, reading Rat Man writtings, getting the radio transmissions, trying to burn everything in the room into the fizzler, those are all things I do once in a while because, gosh, it's a great game. "Why speedrun a game when you can just enjoy it" they says, and it's like... _Dude. I've enjoyed the game more than you could ever do, running or not, and I'm gonna do it more. You played it once or maybe twice, shut up._

[@Killerspieler]

Comparing speedrunning with speedrunning to prove his point... What a legend!

[@Pyroniusburn]

The "using glitches isn't a legit speedrun" is always the most baffling comment to me, because they're speaking with such confidence on a topic they objectively have no clue about, not understanding that the *vast* majority of speedruns use glitches. I know very little about hockey, and I feel like it's the same as me saying "this isn't a *real* hockey match, they're holding the stick with both hands"

[@atomiccritter6492]

runs using glitches IMO are NOT playing the game fast and some communities pretty much despise glitched runs. It does depend upon the nature of the glitch

[@DougSalad]

Fun fact: it's literally IMPOSSIBLE to beat Pokemon Red/Blue casually without glitches.

[@DrynSarcastic360]

@@DougSalad why

[@pantheman2842]

Well, exploiting the existing glitches for me is legit. It's not cheating.

[@silverwings21]

@@DougSalad I've beat it; do tell me what glitches I've been using that I haven't noticed?

[@DoctorMooCow]

i can totally get on board with a debate around the merits of different approaches to gaming (ie speedruns, completionists, competetive vs or casual) but to call any of them DISRESPECTFUL is a take so bad i cant wrap my head around it at all.

[@MichaelPohoreski]

You can tell it was a Karen on her high horse pretending to be a gate keeper for the "correct" way to play games ... /s

[@AndroidsDreamTV]

Speedruns make games like ocarina of time and super Mario 64 trend even more than 20 years from it's releases, this is what I called LOVE for videogames.

[@berndkemmereit8252]

I started watching you vids a few days ago, I'm not a speedrunner. However I can see the appeal of it, to try and find ways to finish the game as fast as possible. The work people put into it deserves respect.

[@theskyknight1002]

I can't believe speedrunning isn't fun.. I thought it was fun this whole time, well gosh, now I know, thanks Twitter!

[@joedav67]

@@cjenui Way to quote no one. When the state at the ground technique was discovered it was actually hugely controversial. And nobody speedruns a game they didn’t play casually firsy

[@BuddySweyzer]

"You can't properly enjoy a game if you beat it in 4 minutes" Cos speedrunners always pop in a game they've never played before and immediately go for the world record

[@boom-jr8vi]

“Ayo the new COD just came out” “Gimme 5 minutes” *Somehow BLJ Bunnyhops through the whole campaign* “damn that campaign was shit”

[@legendgames128]

They get addicted.

[@Tenerens1s]

@@legendgames128 And you, there, got addicted to replying to everyone. Gtfo lmao.

[@RatchetandClank145]

So I discovered speedrunning probably about 4 years ago with AGDQ and your channel shortly after. I just want to say your videos are amazing, informative, and make the intricacies of speedrunning easy for people who are not in the know like myself to understand. I love your content and look forward to every video. You and a few others have made me interested in trying out a speedrun with my own favorite games. Thanks for all you do!

[@squirrelsyrup1921]

Professional boxers don't know how to enjoy being punched by another heavyweight boxer

[@LunarcomplexMain]

"Oh no people are being too good at completing games so quicklyyyyy" Imagine, just for a second, not considering all the if not millions of hours dedicated to those since OoT's release practicing this game and learning more and more about it.

[@legendgames128]

Addiction.

[@ext93]

@@legendgames128 spaghetti

[@papouligaming9594]

@@legendgames128 You sound like a member of some old TV News Network, cope and seethe

[@PixelHeroViish]

@@legendgames128 Or a hobby. Y'know, those exist. You do know what hobbies are, right?

[@asianjackass237]

Didnt the "community" drop it like hot garbage after ACE (arbitrary code executions) become common then ban it because iTS nOt ReaL spEEdrUnnIng? Reminds me of how Pokemon Gold speedrun is "niche" compare to other Pokemon because it also have ACE

[@spezysr]

"Nothing That Lasts 4 Minutes Could Ever Be Fun" We Are Thinking The Same Thing Aren't We...

[@karljobst]

I almost went there

[@SianaGearz]

Are you pondering what i'm pondering, Pinky?

[@geeknat8981]

"Are you thinking..." "What I'm thinking?" **grabs **

[@emma48586]

@@karljobst What stopped you

[@alkaupadhyay7650]

@@emma48586 youtube ban hammer and KZbin thinking that gaming is for kids, which includes speedruninng, as he said in his sponsor

[@thehengy3232]

I haven’t watched you in like a month and honestly it’s lowkey a blessing because now I can come back and just be able to binge watch your new videos for a few hours straight. Also I think you’re one of the only youtubers whose videos are actually interesting to rewatch. One of my favorite out there keep it up man 👌

[@McCaroni_Sup]

13:06 "Even something as simple as learning about speedrunning strategies allows anyone to enjoy a game, just that little bit more" As someone who has put hundreds of hours into BoTW, this hits hard. Leaarning about bomb impact launches was the catalyst for my 2nd playthrough of the game, in which I challenged myself to only use BILs to explore the world and avoid unnecessary enemy encounters or getting distracted, contrary to but somehow also in the spirit of the game. Playing this way means that enemies outside the great plateau don't respawn to better versions, meaning lower tier weapons. It also means no encounter with Hestu, which means less storage. Using BILs also forced me to not hoard stuff like apples. It's not a speedrun, and you could even say it's a casual playthrough, but one of my favorite unintended mechanics in BoTW would have never been discovered without speedrunning.

[@magentascribe7586]

what are bomb impact launches??? I only know boomie zoomies! but in seriousness, the first glitch I ever learned how to do was also in BotW and it was fall canceling. I was so excited the first time I was able to do it and then I just started yeeting Link off of cliffs cause gravity means nothing when I can just unequip my axe LOL, it was some of the most fun I've had playing the game

[@gregmiller7224]

I was one of those that didn’t really understand the appeal of speedrunning. That changed when I started watching your videos. Now I get it and I can appreciate it, even guiding me towards more speedrunning content on KZbin, something I never would have thought I’d be watching two years ago. I may never speedrun a game, but I get it now.

[@jj48]

Watching channels like this at least taught me WHY speedrunning is popular, even if I don't much care for watching speedruns myself (outside of the occasional randomizer race). Though, I do like watching videos ABOUT speedrunning, going into the technical explanations of glitches and manipulation.

[@Lolp821]

What is it you get now out of interest? The appeal of speedrunning is competition to be the best, or to feel that you are. If a run has been perfected and it isn't feasible that it can be beat, people give up and go onto some other time they can beat. Speedrunning is fun to follow and hear about for me, but the mentality of those within it are awful, humble is not a term that exists in this niche so why should they or their audience be any different - which I'm just realising makes sense as speedrunners will spend whatever amount of time is necessary or do whatever they can just to be first, but don't want reminded that its importance is overstated and is kind of pointless.

[@joedav67]

@@Lolp821 what are you talking about? People are always trying to get times shorter and shorter

[@Lolp821]

@@joedav67 In every single game? I follow speed running and I know when certain times are hit or when it appears to be "it" the majority move to something else, then some continue to try and beat the seemingly unbeatable score, but ultimately it's because they want to be the ones to beat it to get on a leaderboard before someone else. I still feel speedrunners know what they do is a bit pointless but they enjoy it, but don't want reminded that its importance is overstated and is kind of pointless.

[@AlcyonEldara]

@@Lolp821 dude, popular games have huge communities even after 30 years.

[@BDUF]

I'll fully admit, before I knew what speedrunning was, I just assumed it was "buy a game and beat it as quick as possible one time." After seeing GDQ, discovering channels like this, and following the history of speedrunning with guys like Wirtual and Summoning Salt, I realize speedrunners know your favorite game better than you, 100%.

[@tkienjoyer]

yea, i think we all thought that at one point, then we looked a bit deeper, and we found a goldmine of some of the best content in games and on youtube, in my opinion of course.

[@ben6993]

Love summoning salts videos, haven’t heard of Wirtual, gonna have to check that channel out 👍🏻

[@tkienjoyer]

@@ben6993 he is a trackmania youtuber that makes documentaries about world record progression and shortcuts, quite similar to summoning salt and bismuth, i would recommend him if you like racing games.

[@KaitouKaiju]

@@HugoStiglitz88 if you want to play through all the content then do a 100% speedrun. This is the reason why there are categories.

[@seanseen_]

@@HugoStiglitz88 enjoying the game is why they enjoy the race against the clock. Skipping sections using game mechanics is still part of the game that they enjoy

[@Taprunner]

I've always explained it to friends like, playing the game casually is like enjoying going on morning jogs, speedrunning is like running competitively.

[@derekchatcavage7425]

There is an easy glitch, if you can even call it that, at the beginning of Dark Souls 3. The one where you use the tree jump to get on the roof. That simple jump took me over half hour to perform for the first time and over 5 plus hours I would estimate to perfect it. The fact that speed runners can perform hundreds of these combinations in a single run, and then to execute them to pin point precession, time and time again, not only shows a great love for the game but a complete domination over it. An absolute legend!

[@BlaiseArath]

"As you all know, nothing that lasts 4 minutes can ever be fun" Haha yah I know what you me- "which is why every Theme park ride..." Oh. Ahem. *Bonk*.

[@JoakimKanon]

I don’t understand why the 100 m sprinters just take their time and enjoy the track.

[@Lawofimprobability]

I used to respect Usain Bolt but now I'm not so sure. After all, isn't the point to get from point A to B? Why would anybody enjoy being super-capable in one metric that allows them to compete with others?

[@biwarayoganata]

I personally like exploring those 100m lanes and meeting with the NPCs around, which is what I think is more enjoyable than just speeding through the tracks.

[@angeldude101]

My question is why they just do nothing but run straight forward. At least do something interesting in the process! Mix-up how you're running, or jump off something for a boost. I don't know, just anything to break up the sameiness of just running. Maybe put some obstacles in the way, but make sure to vary them so the runners need a variety of strategies to get past them.

[@freddiejohnson6137]

@@angeldude101 Usain Bolt once did that and slowed down slightly to do a flashy pose for the camera... he still won and broke the world record. He had fun the wrong way and still done it faster than others.

[@angeldude101]

@@freddiejohnson6137 What do you mean "the wrong way?" It just sounded like he had fun period, and that alone would've made it more interesting to watch.

[@BlountForce]

Thank you legend! Time to go watch some speed running videos now because that’s what you’re videos do to me, they get me hyped to watch speed runs which in turn keeps the games living on forever!!

[@6vitamin]

It takes months and years to beat games in 4min.

[@michaelhutchings8599]

This is simply one of the greatest rebuttals I’ve ever heard. I hadn’t thought much about Mario 64, Banjo Kazooie and Goldeneye in years until speedrunning channels like yours and EZscape’s popped up in my recommended a few years back and I can say I haven’t missed ONE of your videos since Karl. Never tried to speed run anything, ever. But I respect the genius and dedication of some players and the way they push the barriers and break the mould. It’s awesome. Shout out to Queensland from NSW 🇦🇺

[@EVPointMaster]

"Nothing that lasts 4 minutes could ever be fun" thatswhatshesaid

[@oldvlognewtricks]

thatsliterallythejoke

[@CathrineMacNiel]

@@oldvlognewtricks he meant rollercoasters of course, duh!

[@indiana47]

Speedrunning is a precise art honed in over years of hard work and the teamwork of entire communities to find strategies and glitches.

[@MarkHyde]

I like to think of speed running as a form of 'meta-enjoyment' of games - coming to an understanding of everything about these games is ALL apart of enjoying these titles. Even via time limited demos.

[@Nofxthepirate]

I've only ever tried to speedrun one game, and that was Dark Souls. I did this after putting 300+ hours of casual play into the game, and after I gave up on speedrunning, I put another 300+ hours into casual play. Speedrunning is no different than choosing a different build or route through a game. Let people enjoy things how they want!

[@mattjindrak]

No

[@Mj0Skyver]

@@mattjindrak Yes.

[@skeletontoes7692]

Imagine not knowing how to admire an artful skill.

[@CentlonCOD]

Nothing artful about playing a video game like this. Skilled sure but nothing artful.

[@NYCHeavyHitz212]

@@CentlonCOD what’s not artful about it? What makes art what it is? If you knew, you wouldn’t even say what you just said.

[@Arcessitor]

Many people are born soulless. We should pity them.

[@tkienjoyer]

@@HugoStiglitz88 are you being sarcastic? becuase mastering the art of painting is actually very similar to speedrunning, it is a challenge of excecuting actions as best as you can.

[@killerbug05]

imagine saying someone hates music because they play a seemingly "odd" instrument...it's just so ridiculous

[@arfansthename]

"How can you enjoy a game under 4 minutes" I've got two jokes for this and I can't seem to make up my mind on which I should post, so I'll post both of them. "So the limit is 4 minutes and 1 second" "Ah yes, because speedrunners get the record first try." Which one's better?

[@randomgamer4458]

I agree with Karl. I’ve put in thousands of hours into destiny 2. And I want to get into speed running so badly, because at this point, it’s the last thing I haven’t gotten to do yet. If anything, loving the game you play is what gets you into speed running or watching speedrun content.

[@dapperkewlab9374]

Many times the reason a speedrunner chooses to run a game is because they already enjoyed playing the game, also most of the time they don't only speedrun the game sometimes they'll do glitch showcases some of which aren't used in run because they aren't faster and while they do stuff like that you can obviously tell that they have fun doing it.

[@Lolp821]

The fun comes from the ultimate goal of wanting to be the best, or to feel like they're the best, and to see their name on top of a leaderboard. Someone beats them? Then they're at it again, not because they enjoy the game, but because of the competitive frame of mind of deluding yourself you're great.

[@ZeroDividesByYOU]

@@Lolp821 you've made multiple comments like this, and they have a fundamental flaw. You don't get to decide how other people feel. Go into the streams of speedrunners and ASK them how they feel about their games, and WHY they speedrun.

[@phantomfenrir4976]

@@Lolp821 Incredibly wrong. I speedrun because i find it enjoyable. Its not even about the competition, but the self imposed challenge to play the game better and faster. Not a fan of heavy glitch based speedruns but i respect the craft and knowledge behind them.

[@FolgoreCZ]

"I pesonally don't like it, so it is wrong and shouldn't be done." Man, how much better place the world would be, if this mindset just disappeared forever.

[@xjood805]

I have never heard a quote that perfectly describes Twitter “I personally don’t like it so it is wrong and shouldn’t be done”

[@angeldude101]

I've come to the realization that people tend to fear what they do not understand. Karl mentioning that speedrunners basically do magic in their games is quite fitting since magic is by definition that which people do not understand.

[@heavysystemsinc.]

Yeah, fandom in general suffers greatly from this. Most recent examples being Star Wars sequel trilogy and Cowboy Bebop live action adaptation. I get sick of this crap attitude and it makes me not want to like anything those kinds of folks are associated with. They literally ruin the thing more than the thing could ever ruin itself for just existing.

[@aubreyh1930]

@@xjood805 honestly it describes the internet as a whole. Even humanity at times

[@legendgames128]

@@aubreyh1930 It even describes speedcheaters.

[@bigbluebuttonman1137]

Time spent on speedrunning videos like these, particularly Summoning Salt, really revealed just what goes into these speedruns, and gave me a new appreciation for them. They’re a challenge to do, and everyone likes a good challenge. And doing things quickly is just fun. I love getting in a flow and I don’t even do it with legitimate speedrunning in mind.