Motorcycle Licences UK, Huge Changes Proposed!

[@spicy110]

A lot of people are calling this "money making" I will leave this here, saves me replying the same thing. Whenever anyone says "its to make money" I have to point this out. Of the say £700-800 people pay to do a licence, only £100 goes to the gov in test fees. I really do not think it is making anyone enough to make that argument, many pay more than that monthly in tax opposed to once in a lifetime. The people making the most money is the schools and the examiners being paid to do the tests. For this reason I do not buy in to their idea being to "make money" because it isn't making anyone but the schools money and they do not make the rules.

[@PeaceAndLove303]

The schools pay tax on the extortion money they charge so its a loop of the schools make money and so do the government on top of the £100 you mentioned the government get.

[@stuart207]

Last comment deleted 😂 It's a scam, examiners maintain a constant pass rate just below 50%, go check...

[@michaelhall8981]

I think £100 for doing sod all is a tiny bit extortionate.

[@rooksfoot1184]

and what does the current govt take/collect from the current CBT fee... how many 2year periods would a rider have to retake cbt and ride legally to get to £100level that the govt now gets after 2 years only???? it needed for a true comparision to what you stated... (EDIT) btw the way i passed before any off this stuff came in so i have no vested interest personally

[@eamonanthony6767]

You seem to be a smart guy spicy who's money paid for the (PULIC ROADS) ?

[@jimjoelliejack]

I’m so glad I was born in the 60s, things were so much simpler, when I did my test an examiner told me to go around the block on my Honda superdream and take the next available right turn, I went down the street and he jump out in front of me for an emergency stop. Im in my 60s now and love motorbikes as much as I did as a lad. Big smile on my face when out on my triumph tiger 900.

[@markmclaughlin4801]

Haha.....my experience was the same. I got lost at one point one left turn too many. I passed on my RD250 then sold organized bought an RD400. Enjoyed it and riding will never be like it was

[@davyk3717]

I was exactly the same on same model of bike as well! Could see him a mile off before he jumped out 😂 I’m in my late 60s too …

[@razzle1964]

Superdream … nice bike. Remember them well. Tiger’s very nice, too. A couple of mates have one. Similar experience at 17, in 1981, on Dad’s CG125, I think … went round a few cones in Writtle one day, went round the block in Southend-on-Sea the next. The examiner was so far away when he stepped out for the emergency stop I had to accelerate towards him for about 50yds before braking. Got myself a Yamaha RD 250 shortly thereafter. As a ‘born-again’ biker I’m loving my new Super Meteor 650.

[@jimjoelliejack]

@@markmclaughlin4801 great memories hey, Rds we’re fantastic bikes, the kick in of that power and was amazing.👍

[@annoyingbstard9407]

Same for me. I was on a Vespa, it had crap brakes but I Managed to stop because I saw him from a hundred yards away. I’m pretty sure he made sure I saw him and can’t blame him for that. Bought my Yamaha the next day!

[@waynetopham5060]

"Just ride like the Police are behind you" God I loved that line! 😂

[@Masonic1016]

I passed my Car test in 1971 at the age of 17 but couldn't afford my own car straight away, so I bought a cheap used 250cc Suzuki 'Super Six' and used it as my main transport for the next 3 years, just on 'L' plates. Since then, I have mainly driven cars, ranging from 500cc to 6,000cc, only using motorbikes as and when needed. I did my first CBT in 2008 on 125, and found it hilarious. I felt that it was aimed at people who had never even seen a road before, let alone travelled on one! For the next 18 months, I rode a Honda Varadero, 6 days a week around the City of London covering 12,000 miles without issue, then got a new job that made a car more practical. In 2011, I did my 2nd CBT on a 650cc bike, simply because I found out that you could - even though I could only legally ride a 125 afterwards! A few years later, I found out that my car licence will allow me to ride a 'Trike', so I sold the Varadero and bought a 500cc Gilera Fuoco - which I can ride any time I like. No more silly CBT's, I can take a passenger and even ride on motorways! The whole motorcycle licencing thing is a joke - mainly because you end up with a small group of highly skilled, rigorously trained road users, navigating the roads on power-restricted unsafe vehicles, amongst a sea of bigger, more powerful vehicles, with drivers of vastly differing skills and experience who think they are invincible. I haven't found a significant difference between driving a car and riding a bike - and before you shout 'Observations' - No. The observations you are taught on a motorcycle are exactly the same as the ones you are supposed to be doing in a car!

[@sameshitagain6735]

Why did you do CBT if you passed your car test in 1971.... talk about shooting yourself in the foot.... government loves people like you paying out when you did not have to.

[@ThePresidentofMars]

Unless theyre playing chicken with a lorry or similar barriers, they generally are invincible. Their cars might not be but they should survive. Thankfully it only took me about a year on my 125 to get competent, my mod 2 is in a month so hopefully i can start using a bike that isnt crippled in performance

[@JackalArtsmith]

Think with the CBT and CBT Plus you can do the Plus whenever, you don't have to wait the 2 years, it seems what they're saying is that the CBT would be valid for 2 years, and the CBT plus would be valid for 2 years as well. Basically the same as it is now, doesn't seem like you have to hold a CBT for 2 years and a CBT plus for 2 years before you're even allowed to learn on a bigger bike than a 125

[@jimihendrix991]

...when did operating 'e scooters' become legal in the UK outside of use on PRIVATE PROPERTY?

[@spicy110]

it has not yet, this is "proposed" rule changes.

[@mcewan9098]

I personally sat on a 125 from 17 until 25, and took DAS for my A

[@equaliser2265]

The main thing here is control , I don't think you should ride a M bike until you have a car licence and at least 2yrs experience.

[@spicy110]

Wait what? You have to have a car licence before you can get a bike licence? 1. why? 2. What about people like me, I do not do cars, beardly fit in them. I do not have a car licence just a motorcycle licence. Really not following the logic here.

[@tonyboyd8428]

I'm in my 40s I have complex learning difficulties for me to do a theory test it is impossible I've been using a 125 from the word go what is the in place four people like me because if they go ahead with this I will be deemed useless and I won't be on the road any more that is a sickening feeling for me sa shame there's no age related scheme for CBT holders not from what I can see what are your thoughts on this

[@DSN262]

A pushbike with stabilizers

[@tonyboyd8428]

​@@DSN262would you like to come up north with me and do a bit of sidecar racing or do you prefer Lambrettas at the end of the day it is nothing more than paperwork for safety purposes enjoy your stabilisers sounds like you need it more than I do

[@patrickdoake6022]

Meanwhile pass test in car at 17, 18 go out with car full of mates and any car you want! Loads crashes deaths every year, nothing done! But bikers get hammered at every turn

[@glynhannaford7332]

Is there any other country that has such a convoluted system controlling people who want to ride motorcycles?

[@seismic6402]

The biggest bottleneck is having to rent a bike and an instructor to do the bloody thing. You should be able to do a big bike CBT and ride that on L plates, then you can just turn up to the test centre with your own bike and get it over with.

[@spicy110]

And you see no possible issues with that idea?

[@seismic6402]

@@spicy110Yes one actually, idiots.

[@therealrobertbirchall]

Impose the same licence requirements on car drivers and the roads will be much much safer. Most cat/motorcycle accidents like most RTAs are caused by inexperienced car drivers.

[@Active_Karma]

It's just crazy... I did my CBT at 16, full test at 17, restricted to 33bhp for 2 years and then good to go. The system was fine IMO. Biking used to be a cost effective alternative to a car, now, given the cost of bikes, all the tests, the safety gear, the insurance... just blows my mind.

[@simonrawle7885]

same . well the restrictors came out with in hours tho

[@luke_McLellan]

@@simonrawle7885 If they ever went in at all...

[@cw3728]

A bike is so much more expensive than say a 10 year old fiesta, just think of the maintenance on a bike compared to a yearly oil change on the fiesta.

[@Active_Karma]

@@cw3728 Absolutely, even the used market is a mess right now. I recently bought a '91 Intruder 750 for £1400 and I've spent easily the same again making it roadworthy. Seeing the price of new bikes, especially for learners right now, or even used bikes in good condition, is eye watering

[@123PetrolHead]

Completely agree, I don't think there was anything wrong with that setup. I did mine at 18, after they brought out the two part practical test but before the shambles it is now. Restricted for 2 years and could then ride anything at 20. Mod one cost a tenner which I passed first time on my DT. Did a days training for the second part, including the test was about £200. The price that people pay now is astronomical! And then people don't want to pay out more money to lose the restriction so they then ride "illegally" because their bike makes too much power for their licence! Definitely think that bit has to change.

[@dave7577]

If you can understand the motorcycle licencing system you should be the ruler of the universe

[@phire0]

The main thing that bothers me with the current system as an A2 licence holder, is that in order to upgrade to the A licence in two years time, I will need to back to a training centre, pay a fortune for lessons/to use their bikes, and then do the exact two tests that I have already passed, on the exact same bike (only unrestricted).

[@steve00alt70]

No the reason for that is due to the heavy weight of the full A bikes u need to get used to.

[@christianjames9577]

@@steve00alt70 I did my A2 on a restricted MT07. 2 years later, I took my full A on a de-restricted MT07. Exactly the same weight and couldn’t even notice a difference in power as I hardly went over 5K rpm. The test was literally identical to my A2 and I didn’t learn a thing. Hundreds of pounds down the train due to stupid licensing rules.

[@awrightmate5826]

As a previous A2 holder that is a pain. I redone my whole physical test again a few months ago. Being stuck on an A2 when your friends can afford to upgrade and you can’t is sooo frustrating. In the end my dad paid for it out of the goodness of his heart as I couldn’t pay for it. I feel you though I had 9 years of an A2. Younger people have said to me I want to do my test and are about 19-21. I was like such a waste of money and time. Just CBT it, get no claims then do direct access.

[@Morbeyn]

That’s not true. You can book your test directly with the DVSA at www.gov.uk/book-driving-test You will need a Cat A motorcycle, of course, but no need for a bike school.

[@robinwells8879]

The Government is usually motivated by what extra business activities they can drum up and then tax accordingly. The suggestions and guidance will come from the trade bodies, usually dressed in health and safety garb to disguise the true intention. Call me a cynical old hector but my guess is that if anything actually changes it will just be the tax take. They are bankrupt and utterly desperate. 😂. I have my mod 1 coming up so I had better get a shifty on!

[@OldGit62]

Glad I'm old and did my test in 1979. So complicated (and expensive) now. Back then 16 - 50cc on "L" plates no training, then 17 years old 250cc on "L" plates, one test ( ride round the block one way then the other), - Full licence ride what you like.

[@cloudbasenirvana]

......and the theory was just a couple of questions still sat on your bike at the road side after riding around the block. Oh sweet days.

[@ianmcevoy7106]

Which is why we all knew someone who didn't make it because they went out an bought an H1 / H2 or similar at the age of 17 and with minimal experience. I remember my test - round the block left, round the block right and then an emergency stop at about walking pace plus a few questions - joke really. The key take I get on this is that people can legally start getting training and experience at 14 years of age - which is a much better situation than we have now.

[@robg521]

Same here, [1979/1980] aged 17 I bought a little Yamaha 100 on L Plates, AGED 18 I managed to borrow a few quid and got a Honda 250 superdream on L plates. At 19 years old I Took the RAC course then straights afterwards took my full test, [if I had failed the test I would have had to get 125 because the law had changed] [but passed fine so all was OK] At 20 years old I Then swapped the 250 Honda for a susski GT 550. In most cases Your type and size of bike was limited to your budget, We were all pretty poor so everyone rode around small bikes because that was all you could afford and slowly worked your way up. But there was the rich kid up the road who passed his full test on Friday on a Yamaha 250 and on Monday morning went out and bought a Kawasaki Z900’ [envy, envy, envy 😂😂😂]

[@bofor3948]

Like you took my test early 70's. No CBT then, but at 17 when I said "Hey Dad I am going to buy a bike to get to my apprentice school as the bus is expensive" He said "only if you take a course, otherwise you won't get my Moniker as guarantor on the loan" Took and thouroughly enjoyed and passed a locally run RAC/ACU training scheme course, run over several weeks. He was right, you benefit from other riders experience. The current scheme might be a bit overlayered and adds to the cost, but if more young men reach old age with all their limbs it is well worth it. Too many of my peers didn't.

[@Cornel1001]

During a driving test, was considered a major mistake the fact I was driving with 30 on a 40 road !

[@damianbutterworth2434]

I passed my full bike licence on my 17th birthday for £28. Got straight on a BSA 650 A65. The same bike as what Boon had. The days before the nanny state.

[@rogerkay8603]

Passed mine after 8 months in 1987, on a Suzuki GP100 - been riding almost daily ever since with one off caused by a driver pulling out on me. Not the bikers who need restricting IMO

[@markianclark9645]

@@rogerkay8603 almost a beginner to me...i passed mine in 1976...became an Instructor in 1991...have been a courier most of my working life...covered around a Million Kilometres...68 crashes...about 44 bikes mostly Hondas...around 60/70 thousand deliveries...lots of scars...1 small fracture (plated)...one time knocked unconscious...retired...OAP...counting down the last years of my riding career...maybe 5 or 6 or 7 more...we'll see

[@rogerkay8603]

@@esotericman22 I'm 53, and don't ride like a loon and still got knocked off, hurt and my bike written off because a cager didn't BOTHER to look at a junction - I feel your pain when bikes blow past but it's their life they're risking, not yours is it?

[@rogerkay8603]

@@markianclark9645 nice one mate, good luck and ride safe

[@damianbutterworth2434]

@@retiredbore378 It was a bit of a beast after a Yamaha 125. I was a skinny 17 year old. It was had to kick off let alone ride which was like riding a bull.

[@ilovemynewjacket1507]

Net zero bs.. When China are 3000x more pouting than the uk

[@spicy110]

I think that's being used as a bit if good optics to try and get this though. People will want these changes regardless of any of the net zero stuff.

[@dataterminal]

This will be interesting, for sure. Currently if you have a full car driving licence and you do the CBT it enables full cat AM on your licence. This means you can ride 50cc mopeds without L plates even after the CBT expires. The proposed changed would seem to indicate that full car licence holders who've completed the CBT, and thus get Full AM would then be given 125cc access. I think 125cc bikes on a full car licence is much better than the 50cc at the moment as it wouldn't feel like a downgrade in terms of keeping up with traffic on a 50cc with it's speed restrictions in place.

[@oldmanonamotorbikeinbucks7604]

Totally agree, rather than 50cc limit, after CBT Car Drivers with full Licence should have Category A1 added rather than AM

[@Annoyingirl221]

My exact situation right now.

[@contessa.adella]

@@MKBx1 not quite mate! E-bikes and scooters can not LEGALLY go that fast. If you want an e-bike to legally go over 15.5mph it has to be registered as a Moped…as you know with yours. Reconfiguring eapc to full Moped spec needs a lot of work before it can registered. I did have an e-bike that could do 28, but fear of getting a big fine made me sell it, my new eapc is supposedly compliant according to the mfr rating plate…hope so!

[@philbrotherton5720]

I spent 3 years riding a 50cc on my car licence (AM) Yes, it was hell. I'm now riding a 125cc on a CBT. Does this mean that I could just remove my L plates & ride a 125cc on an AM licence when my CBT runs out? I was going to do the A1, but what's the point?

[@ThePresidentofMars]

Doing the a1 is just pointless. Say you get ur cbt at 17, why would u spend all that money just to be on the same bike, the cbt is there so u can get a 125 and practise on it before going up in power.

[@billienomates1606]

I am just glad I took my bike test back in 1979, took one test and passed and went from a 125 to a GS1000S suzuki in a day. Now those were the focking good days. Still riding now in my 60's with a GSXR750 and GS550E I bought over 20 years ago. Ah I miss the old days when things were not as focked up by our self absorbed politicians and woke brigade as they are today, You called it like it was back then and if you focked about you would take the outcome of it on your own shoulders not cry like a little girl.

[@125sm3]

I'll stick with my grandad rights. Where I can ride 50cc with no L plates or the need of a CBT . Obviously it's a 2 stroke 😂😂

[@Brookspirit]

I wish i'd got a license when i was young, the current system has put me off for years, it's too complicated and too expensive.

[@Horriblebastad]

£1600 it cost me for a quick pass weeks course. I did the four part test at 63 😁 I could have joined my mates back in the 70s with the simple test,but never seemed to get the time. I am well chuffed.

[@lesley1174]

When i got mine many many years ago it was round the block on a 125, passed got straight onto a GSX 1100. Was bloody terrified of it so the learning curve was fast. However to date have not had an 'off' that 1100 taught respect for the power, and performance. I do believe that everyone should have a year on a bike before getting a car, being on a bike teaches you very quickly to watch what the others are doing.

[@bigoldgrizzly]

Took the Darwin test like me - if you survived, you were presumed competent

[@lesley1174]

@@bigoldgrizzly Indeed, and we are still breathing!

[@steve83803]

I took and passed my Cycling Proficiency Test aged 11 which was basically today’s CBT on a cycle. At 16 I took and passed my motorcycle (ride around the block) test and at 17 my car test. All the required knowledge, experience and road craft having been gained from that original CPT which, as part of my schooling, cost me nothing but over several weeks of training taught me everything to be safe on the roads.

[@Evilroco]

I have commented similar elsewhere ,we couldn't ride to school until you had a CPT .it was a great foundation that has seen me into my 50's without a ticket or serious accident.

[@marty8535]

Does CPT even exist any more?

[@terrystevens5261]

yep, my two grandsons have both done it, think it is called something else now though.

[@davecooper3238]

I took the same route except I did not take my car test until 18. Absolutely no motorcycle training. Over 200k on motorcycles later & still have all my bits.

[@SprocketN]

Good point! Since there’s now no CPT people only get taught about being a road user when they want an engine. The CPT introduces road safety and the associated ‘common sense’ at an earlier age. Bring back the CPT!

[@swss]

There’s a massive issue here that no one has grasped, by 2030 you won’t be able to buy a petrol 125 it will have to be electric. So to move up to a full A test means you’ll have to learn on a geared ICE bike which get phased out 5 years later. Makes no sense when you combine these new power categories test categories. Currently you can’t take a full A test on an full power electric bike. Big lack of joined up thinking here.

[@DSN262]

2035

[@Iunreelz]

Ooo yhyh take our bikes away w their few emissions compared to companies depleting everything ye

[@simonburrough1954]

I think if you passed your driving test before 2000 you should be aloud to ride a 125 without a CBT and not just a moped.

[@sprocket-YT]

Why do I feel the same people who complain now will still complain if they change it!

[@CJBradley]

The most important advice I was ever given from my instructor was to imagine that every time you go out onto the road everyone else is trying to kill you; and be sure you know what's going on around you at all times. Most people killed on motor cycles are quite young riding small machines and often it's the lack of road craft that does it, not so much the capacity of the bike. I'm seventy and still here because I took his advice, It's also good to ride out with older riders who will watch your back.

[@flybobbie1449]

Riding a bike a bit like being a Spitfire pilot, survive first six months then probably be ok.

[@robmoon6442]

I’ve just passed my CBT at 52….. I’m itching to get competent and progress. I know very little. What I DO know is you are offering a whole good to me and many younger versions of me, free of charge. No only do you do this, which in itself is pretty god damn awesome, but you do it very well. You’ve got my respect.

[@AStrangeHill]

So right & Great news Rob! Pleased to hear it and welcome to the club🎉

[@WorksopGimp]

Just done my MOD1 today, looking to book MOD2 and guess what not a single date available

[@robmoon6442]

@@WorksopGimp it’s a privilege not an entitlement :) enjoy it all

[@LeaBrattle-parker-pp5sf]

@@robmoon6442 I agree, I driving license regardless of category is indeed a privilege and definitely not a good given right. I'm going to be very harsh here and say I've always believed that you should only get say 4 attempts at getting your license and if you can do that then it's public transport or push bike for you, like I said this will probably be unpopular and it's just my opinion

[@robmoon6442]

@@LeaBrattle-parker-pp5sf . I rarely offer opinion on things I know an embarrassingly little about but that does seem sensible (he types having passed his car at fourth attempt…gulp)

[@gamesessions]

I’m coming up to 40 and have taken my CBT twice so far and was just planning to repeat this as I only use my motorbike for commuting to work, as it’s a lot quicker than the bus. I haven’t taken a test as I get anxiety, but this might force my hand, so as long as I can get through the anxiety, it might be good as I can then get a bigger bike. However, if I can’t, I guess it’s back to the bus 😢

[@mc127]

The good thing about taking A1 test, there is no anxiety. If you fail, you rollback to CBT. If you pass, no more CBT.

[@iandaniels8386]

if your happy to take cbt every 2 years whats the problem ? the i am alright got my full licence pull up the ladder people make them retake their test every 2 years and see what they say to that idea ?

[@ReValveiT_01]

We switched to the conveluted Mod1 Mod2 system because it was an EU directive. Interestingly, the vast majority of the rest of the EU said "bollocks to that" and carried on with their current systems.

[@alan4391]

It's all robery

[@101steel4]

I love a good dressing gown

[@andrewthompsonuk1]

When I was young, the motorbike gave so many of my peers something to live and work for. True, there were many deaths, however nowadays there are so many kids stuck at home with no ambition, I always felt the motorcycle gave kids ambition and generally led to better mental health and fewer suicides.

[@steveclark..]

So true, back in the day getting a moped at 16 were a right of passage and gave us independence.

[@Dr.Gunsmith]

Yes thats actually a great point and great comment. I think younger people are so restricted in everything these days that some feel nothing is worth living for.

[@lhayes3621]

I passed my A2 recently, it would be great if it gets upgraded to a full A license without the extra costs =)

[@abdullahX001]

No, you would have to do an assessment under the proposed changes

[@lhayes3621]

@@abdullahX001 oh I see, hopefully it's a little less hassle at least

[@gb2983]

Why does it need to be so confusing (other than to make money through testing)? Theory > CBT is good 👍 Then CBT > DAS equivalent all the way through (none of this A1, A2 crap). DAS equivalent with staggered power restrictions of the bike at different ages i.e. 17 - max 125cc, 19 -max 250cc, 21 - max 650cc 24+ - unlimited. No retesting to move up in power! The person has already done the course.

[@Hazmatti]

Agreed.. they should just have to fill out a form to update their license when they're of the right age, but the way it is now is very much a money making scheme .. you don't see the same restrictions with cars or the likes, can easily go pass your car test and providing you have the cash - buy a stupidly fast car at 17/18+ ..

[@chewie8]

Absolutely agree with the CBT not retaking it constantly without knowing the highway code. E-scooters I. The road with cars, trucks is crazy thinking.

[@micheallastname5772]

That will hit the Pizza Muppet Brigade

[@doghous3]

@@micheallastname5772 yep. I did a CBT a few weeks ago and asked how was business going. They said it was mostly food delivery guys doing CBT re-do (or first timers).

[@iainm8461]

Wish could ride a 125 off car license, as good fun when younger in fields on Honda crunch 90 lol

[@Darren-Trim]

I’ve just downtrained as a cbt instructor, after just a few sessions I’m finding that there is a greater need for the 1st time cbt to be a 2 day course as it’s adding extra pressure to try nd complete in 1 day especially if they’ve never ridden before

[@SprocketN]

Initially, I agree, as a retired instructor I experienced a lot of long days trying to instil basic road safety in 16 and 17 year olds. The scope of the current CBT is too wide. Having to do the theory test first should make the CBT about motor bike control and less about basic road safety. On the surface a good move. However, I had several repeat CBT customers who were perfectly safe riders, who needed a motorbike to get to work. I live in a rural area with very poor public transport. I did try and encourage them to take the test as I knew they’d pass the practical parts easily. But, they were not able to pass the theory test as they had severe test nerves or had learning difficulties that meant the theory test was too hard because of the reading required. The proposed changes would exclude them as the couldn’t pass the theory test in order to do the CBT. How will they get to work?

[@iandaniels8386]

simple make the cbt a 2 day course day one road rules then day 2 on road ? or let people chose a 3 day cbt 1 day rules of road day 2 on road day 3 cbt + but if you go pay for 3 day cbt it lasts all your riding life on l plates as long as you dont get 6 points then if you get pulled points they take it off you and you do it again same as if you pass your car test then get too many points in first 2 years they kick you down to provinsal licence make you resit test.

[@drramtop1576]

Most of these proposals seem sensible enough (which means the government will sit on them them like it did the 2016 proposals) But the CBT>CBT+>A1 progression seems overly complex for new riders, particularly with the CBT and A1 having differing engine power restrictions. I'd change it so the 11kw limitation is removed completely in favour of 22kw, and the CBT cannot be repeated but the CBT+ can. Raising the base level of training while letting newer riders have a bit more power is a fair trade-off, imho. One important thing is the new 22kw A1 *must* be doable on a 125 so as to remove the trap of scooter riders having to learn on a geared bike to get a license for anything beyond 11kw because schools almost never have automatics more powerful than 125. That's why 250/300 scooters are so rare in the UK, current 125 riders who'd like an upgrade are faced with a costly faff to get there.

[@MOTO_LEW]

Yes no more delivery drivers driving stupidly 😂

[@justbreakingballs]

There shouldn't be a test for any licence, it should be an assessed set of modules completed and signed off by an instructor. The idea one slight error fails someone perfectly competent and a clean run for a poor driver passes them is crazy.

[@ronlysons6750]

As a former driving instructor I am in 100% agreement with this.

[@georgenicoll8641]

"Signed off by an instructor" that wouldn't lead to any shady deals would it!

[@justbreakingballs]

@@georgenicoll8641 by that logic why doesn't the current system lead to shady deals.

[@WessexBladesHandMadeKnives]

I did pt 1, pt 2, then local motorcycle school (Lansdown , Bath) where there was a basic course and also then Advanced, which was literally based on the Police Riders Handbook and we were examined by Police Riders in pursuit with comms, course was like £60, so happy I did it all back then, but in this old era there were still crazy fast RG125s , TZRs, MBXs, so I can imagine what a de-restricted full on 2 stroker at 22KW for a 17 year, blinking nippy little screamers, wow I would have loved a go on that at 17 instead of my crappy FR80 Suzuki step through...now in my old age(haha) I'd settle for a GS500 or CB500 sized twin, all I see are 20mph zones and very few National limits left, it's all 40's between villages that are 20mph, gone are the days where you could fill up my F reg GPZ500S and howl from Bath to Woolacombe with all your mates GPz550, GSX550 GPX750 old hulks...or Cheddar...oh the memories are coming back now...jeez Rob had an RG500...the smell of 2 Stroke😁

[@adamshax7752]

100% agree with most of the changes, especially bringing down the age for Direct Access, been driving since I was 17. Cheaper than doing a CBT and insuring a bike.. In that time I've been waiting to get a motorbike license, I've qualified in a trade, re-trained, suffered through cancer, bought a house yet I am still not trusted to be able to train to ride a motorcycle after a CBT & 2 tests. 24 is just too late, 21 seems a lot more reasonable. I am preparing to just do the Direct Access at the moment, theory is done. All booked in for around March next year. Just a long time coming.

[@marklatimer7333]

In my day you could ride anything as long as it had 'L' plates for as long as you liked at age 17 - methinks the government doesn't want motorbikes on the road but how else are we going get take-aways delivered.

[@Hazmatti]

Whilst I do agree with most of the changes, not being able to retake a CBT may put many people off - say for example you do the CBT and CBT+ .. you fully intend to get your full test done but cannot due to financial or medical reasons and as a result the CBT+ expires.. does that then mean you cannot re-do the test? basically stopping you from biking completely? if so then that would be ridiculous and say you have to fill out forms with a reason as to why you didn't do the test in the 2-4 years you had that will then just create more of a paperwork backlog and even more reasons many will say "fuck it" and not bother at all.. also imagine your CBT+ expired .. does that then mean you have to start from square one and do the first more basic CBT test again? they'd also have to lengthen the time the theory test is valid for to accomodate for those potential 4 years that people can ride a CBT/CBT+ on

[@JRYDER13]

I am not sure the new proposed idea is a good idea to be honest? Direct Access at 21? Definetely a no no!! There are already too many numpties riding around, this proposal it will be pure chaos!! If this ahead, god helps all!! 😁

[@Ilovetriumphbikes]

100% with you on this. 😊

[@Eddy_t9]

But that doesn't mean all 21's are numpties, does it ? This stuck up perspective, restricts the young people who are really good riders and will be like that forever because they don't want to die and also who want to enjoy a nice pull of a powerful bike. What a stupid idea is that young riders are not capable of controlling a powerful motorbike. I am sure most of them are more capable than 60 years old with 10 different illnesses and who cant even touch the ground on the bike because their belly sits on the tank so high.

[@mrwpg]

For a long time i have liked the idea of applying the bike power / age restrictions to car driver.

[@wyldwiisel9126]

Insurance does that allready

[@lassydogpie5390]

@@wyldwiisel9126usually on parents insurance these days tho ☹️

[@kw2299]

Haven’t people worked out by now - the country and its citizens being systematically asset stripped.

[@spicy110]

You understand these proposed changes are to make it easier and more open to younger people offering more freedom than the current rules?

[@henrypringle6047]

In whole, these changes are positive. But it is incredibly frustrating for those like me who took my A2 and full A license in the last few years and have to spend a fortune to do so. Didn't help that my examiner got a rear puncture on the test and had to cancel delaying my pass by another month...

[@tommy-mu2gf]

In the exact same boat as you now. I’ve had my A2 since 2020 and have put off doing my full A until now. I feel very hard done to that I’ve got to do it all again now! Been riding a Bandit 650 for 4 years, pains me to think I’ll be doing my test on practically the same bike but unrestricted.

[@philread7668]

The UK is bonkers. Old system (new to me), new system - both insanely complicated. Just another reason to never return.

[@mrwiggy25]

Did my CBT at 52 last month. Have been driving for over 30years but the bike insurance is stupidly expensive! Got a TC Max after watching your series of reviews! Not interested in getting anything else so may do my A1, would be nice to do it on my bike but charge wouldn't last long enough to do the test on, when are they going to factor that in? Still way too complicated, even now I see bikes that are clearly bigger than 125cc with L plates on, which you shouldn't be riding unless under instruction. People are always going to ride illegally when it's this overly complicated to get a licence.

[@101steel4]

Does seem even more complicated than ever lol. Got back into bikes after donkeys years. Did my cbt at 48 I think. Thought I don't want to mess about with this lark every 2 years, so did my full test before the next cbt was due. Was a long and expensive progress but worth it in the end. Can ride any size bike now without any worries.

[@gamesessions]

I did my CBT on my TC Max and it had plenty of charge left - how much longer is the full test?

[@101steel4]

@@gamesessions the mod 1 is about 15 ish minutes, the mod 2 about 45 mins if memory serves. Don't forget you have to get to a test centre too. Not sure what a TC Max is if I'm honest, I did mine on the schools 600cc bike. I noticed your insurance comment, I'm 52 and ride a triumph Street triple and mines a tad over £200 fully comp.

[@mrwiggy25]

I use the TC Max just to commute to work and back a round trip of 52miles. I think it would do the Mod 1 part of the test no problems but Mod 2 it would probably run out of charge depends on range and speed you go for the 30-40 test duration. I mean it takes me about 40mins to do the 25miles to work and I get there with about 27% charge remaining. My insurance on the TC Max was about £420!!! If I want an bigger electric bike going through the comparison sites don't come back with any quotes 😯 So all of this licence messing about really means nothing as it's the insurance companies that will ultimately police it via not providing insurance or quoting stupidly expensive premiums. Or as is the way people will be riding illegally as they can't afford it and will need to get to work. Where I live there is no public transport for.people who work shifts, so what choice is there?

[@101steel4]

@@mrwiggy25 if you're going to go through the test you may as well do it on a bigger bike. That's way you're not restricted on what you can ride. Insurance comes down too if you're on a full licence. My 675 is way cheaper to Insure than my 125 was.

[@leewolf6434]

So my friend is 21 atm and doing their A2 next week from having their CBT for a year. So could they do their full A when they’re 22 under this new rule? Confusing

[@Iunreelz]

Direct access is changing to 21 so I guess hell just have to take that new test on the bigger bike yh

[@Paul-dz6fs]

I started riding in the 1970's, held various bikes at that time (shown on DVLA records) on a Provisional old style licence upto 225cc. Then along came CBT. Even after owning and riding on U.K roads for a few years of higher cc, All of a sudden, I was alleged to be a death risk, with no experience, although I had never had a bad spill off a bike. I have been driving cars just as long and yet, I have to do a CBT just to get on anything above a moped (for which, I can just get on and ride with a full moped Licence as part of my car lIcence). Has a moped more than 2 wheels I wonder ? (hint of sarcasm) .. I get that faster is more dangerous, but it's ok to drive a car at 70 MPH and have good reaction time and awareness of other road users. Plus I also have ridden bikes at that speed without dying for years. I currently have a 5 year bike no claims bonus as a result of using a 125 on the U.K roads (again without killing myself or others), as a result of a misunderstanding as to whether I was actually licenced to do so. DVLA said I had (I even returned my licence to them for verification) and then I was looking for another insurer who said I wasn't licenced. Again, much arguing and then got that bored with it, I sold the bike to save any possible legal breach. The whole CBT system is a complete waste of time. You can't actually fail a CBT and some of us who like riding bikes, have years of experience on bikes anyway. Common sense should prevail if you have owned and used bikes on U.K roads previously. Surely, if you can stay upright and without killing yourself or others, do you have to prove it again and again every 2 years ? .. What changes even after 2 further years road experience ? .. surely experience should improve, not go backwards ? Rant over :)

[@twist_of_the_wrist]

I did a cbt at 17, then stopped riding at 18. I redone the cbt at 23 and stopped riding at 24, then did cbt to full license at 35 so on them new rules I couldn't of redone the cbt for the 3rd time so I'd never of been riding a bike.

[@Hazmatti]

Exactly my concern with this proposed change.. life can throw us for a loop at any point and not allowing people to retake a CBT even if they have a valid reason for it would be really silly! that'd be like saying to a learner car driver "oops sorry, you didn't pass you test first time round, you can't get your license at all now.. go back to public transport"

[@paulcollings5424]

I'm all for progressive learning particularly for younger riders who naturally have little or no road experience when they start out . However , no system allows for 'one size fits all' and there should perhaps be some exceptions. I took my CBT and bought my 125 as it was all I wanted in order to get around locally and at low cost. I have no desire to own a larger bike. I renewed my CBT after the first two years and was intending to continue that process under the current rules. I have had no accidents in the past 3 years since I started biking and I'm an IAM advanced car driver. Now I'm potentially being told that I 'have to progess' and take the CBT+ as well. If someone is on the current 2 year CBT renewal system , I believe they should be able to continue as that's basically what they signed up for under rules at the time they purchased a bike.

[@hazelforest1543]

You can just do the A1 license right now even if your over 19 iirc(on your own bike), If you believe you meet the standard go do the test(s). No need for any riding school or anything, It's honestly probably cheaper and less faff than doing CBTs every 2 years in the long term. The CBT is meant to make you a learner hence why you have to ride around with L plates, If you can ride around on L plates for 10 years* it kinda defeats the point in them. The only extra thing's you'ld get from an A1 are pillions and the motorway, so it's not even really progressing, and anyway, I would do A1 just to be able to ditch the L plates, drivers are so much less aggressive once you do that, it's like some of them see red(litterally) and go "must overtake". *Or even worse, doing commerical work on them, you should not be able to do work for reward on a learners permit.

[@paulcollings5424]

@@hazelforest1543 Hi Hazel , thanks for your comments , agree with all the points you make particularly riding for commercial purposes on L plates. I was thinking of the A1 route but will now bite the bullet and am going for the full test as have been tempted by a slightly larger bike.

[@Chris-iw5pd]

I don't see why they always want to control people. It should be simple. You pass your theory/hazard perception test, do a minimum of 10 lessons, and then you can pass your bike test and ride whatever the hell you can afford. 🤷‍♂️

[@jakebrennan7685]

Mostly good changes and desperately needed, however I would have liked to see an alternative upgrade path for A1/A2 holders who have completed an advanced riding certificate. I currently have an A2 and will have to wait another 1.5 years to do my full A under the current system, yet I have a ROSPA Silver advanced riding qualification which is way beyond the requriements for the standard test or new "ATB assessment".

[@HarmonicaMustang]

I would love to see some attention to new riders that hold an advanced driving qualification. I'm IAM certified with 7 years experience behind the wheel, and I've just started riding. I've got a copy of RoadCraft for both, I find that they're 80% identical, and I use as many transferable skills as possible while out and about. I agree that a mandatory theory test before a CBT is a good idea. The thought of 17 year olds whizzing around at 60mph on the very limited education they get in a CBT is terrifying.

[@colinclarke4285]

If they make the AM entitlement 125cc will that mean full car licence holders will be able to ride a 125cc without Ls as opposed to the 50cc as is the rule at the moments?

[@motorcyclerescuer]

The cbt has been an issue for years now. How many dangerous food delivery riders have people seen? I think you shouldnt be allowed to do deliveries on a cbt because its alot of pressure with time scales that learners cant always manage.

[@LeaBrattle-parker-pp5sf]

Excellent video, full of great information as always. I have a full licence sonit doesn't affect me, I do like the ideas proposed,it does seem to make it a bit cheaper, I've personally never understood the mod1, mod2 thing. As for those that will mean that they can't constantly repeat the CBT, just take the A1 and stay on a 125 . I hope some if not all this comes in especially the electric scooter licence, yeah they can be a total menace

[@axeami1354]

100% need to legalise e-scooter's , would rather they just out right unbanned them but a basic liscense and registered plate is still better than them being totally banned. as for the A2 i honestly don't think you should have to retake the test as you have already done a full test, it should automatically be upgraded to a full A1 license after 2 years.

[@LeaBrattle-parker-pp5sf]

@@axeami1354 I agree with most of what you say but I think the idea of the A2 is just to demonstrate that you haven't picked up bad habits over the years. I've said for years that as you have to renew your license every ten years anyway that you should take a competency test like the CBT done buy an instructor to prove that your riding or driving standards are still good and to keep you abreast of current laws. It's just a thought but it might help drivers and riders alike

[@johncummins3860]

It will effect you if motorcycle shops & meets & events close because of lack of young riders !!

[@rickconstant6106]

@@johncummins3860I'm 68, been riding since I was 16 (a lot easier to get a full licence then), and used to ride with lots of mates of around my generation. Gradually, over the last 10-20 years, almost all the others have either died or given up bikes, for family or health reasons, and very few of their children or grand-children have taken it up, so the biking scene around here seems to be dying out along with us old gits.

[@stevefairbanks835]

What a shame they don’t make car drivers do exactly the same staircasing

[@FoxyEmGee]

Another movement restrictions laws.... Lines up with 20mph, ulez, LTN(low traffic neighborhoods) etc.... Basically restrict the "poor" ones who can't afford a car to travel, with the cheapest mode of travel Call me a conspiracist, while you have your free movement of travel... Bottom line it will increase the cost of riding 2 wheels on a budget... Which more people are struggling.... And this license for electric scooter business... Not sure about all this

[@oldmanonamotorbikeinbucks7604]

so you do CBT once, take a test , fail!, out of time limits, what then? either the proposers haven't thought it through, or they've not explained it fully. Also when upgrading, presumably you would still need appropriate bike, so most would still need to use a School bike and therefore still be required by a School to take Instruction... all so confusing, when with Cars you can still take a test at 17 and, if you can afford it, jump straight into a Ferrari !!!!!

[@mrmoon1482]

I’m on a A1 license took the test on a 125 to reduce the cost, Been riding bikes for many years so being able to ride upto 22kw means 250cc and some Sluggish 350s like royal Enfield, so not much of a power increase but saves taking more tests, but if it’s made law it will probably take another 10 years, 🙄

[@marklatimer7333]

Bl00dy Hell I didn't know it was that complicated - that explains why you only have two type of motorcyclists in the UK, 16 year old on mopeds delivering Pizzas and bl00dy old men who passed the test years ago before if was all fannied about with.

[@xani666]

Next step: "What do you mean that license isn't valid in EU and I can't go there?" Not that I like EU system (re-testing for same shit but with bigger bike is near-entirely pointless, especially the theory part)

[@jakelaughton683]

Just make it like it used to be. Moped at 16. Restricted access at 17 and unrestricted at 19 with no test needed. Nothing stops you buying a Lamborghini at 17 when you pass your test.

[@Markdmarque]

Is anyone finding a lack of motorcycle parking in most car parks...They give electric cars more spaces and if they really want a more environmentally friendly form of transport they should encourage more use

[@davebarrowcliffe1289]

Not making excuses, but it's no wonder so many kids are saying "screw it" and tear-arse around with their balaclavas on bikes with no reg plates...

[@joeking1019]

So glad I'm an old fart who took the test back in the 1980s, before MCs became the tools of pavement handbag robbery.

[@Saxtoo]

As clear as mud, Officer🚔. Sticking with my push bike 🚴‍♂️💨💨💨 A licence to nut zero

[@MakeItBreakIt169]

This is a needlessly complicated system that punishes everyone for the minority of people that jump straight on super bikes and end up hurting themselves. The old system was a lot more sensible.

[@nickcoppard5335]

I have full car licence since 1975 which also covers full moped and have done 1ooos of miles on 250 and 125 why would I need cbt ?

[@seeul8rwaynekerr]

Unless it's back to 250cc for beginners, I'll still consider it a useless kleptocracy run by Greta thornberg

[@The_Irish_Volunteer]

There is never any positives in any changes in government regulations. It's all about driving people off the roads.

[@keithrushforth4019]

So glad I got my bike licence back when it was simple. A 250cc on L plates, ride around the block test, and then ride whatever you liked. It was a great time to be young, not like today.

[@mrballpython2105]

Bro Im so happy I live in the US where I didnt have to go through this trash system.

[@pauls8456]

I don’t live in the UK. Both systems described are ridiculously complicated……. Even the State of Victoria in Australia (known as the nanny state - first place in the world to make seatbelts and bicycle helmets compulsory) has a simpler system even though you need to be 18 to start. Look it up….

[@brucegroom1929]

Interesting. for the A1 22Kw - would that still be a 125 or maybe a 150/175? The manufacturers wouldn't like this..In Europe most can ride a 125 on a car license and that's why they are so popular there. I can't see too many manufacturers wanting to produce separate 22KW 125/150/175 models for UK?

[@frglee]

Manufacturers have been putting simple power restrictors on 125cc motorbikes for quite a while for people to learn on to meet local laws in various countries. When you pass your test you can remove them if you want, but people often just sell the bikes on to other learners and buy a bigger one.

[@ZeldaFitz]

Thank god I done my test back in 1993, sounds like a right ball ache these days

[@elemar5]

The huge change would be changing the spelling of licence to license.

[@neilfoster814]

Back in the goo old days, I took my test on a Honda CB 200, passed then went out and bought a Kawasaki Z 650! Things were so much easier then.

[@spicy110]

Indeed and many more people died even though there was a lot less traffic. That is why the laws changed over time, weather that is a good reason to change it is another thing.

[@NigelsModellingBench]

This is ridiculous!! How many people do we have in officialdom on massive salaries compiling all this crap? I rode an unrestricted 50cc at 16, then a 250 unrestricted at 17 and then unlimited once I passed my test. 60 yrs old, still here and all limbs attached.

[@damien5062]

We should do this with cars ☺️ for safety

[@Eddy_t9]

If a young person can't control a powerful machine that is because that specific person has no skills to do it or simply not intelligent enough, It has nothing do with his age. Using age groups to rule out who can ride what bikes must be the stupidest thing ever. In fact; I am sure most of young people are much more capable in controlling especially big machines than any 60 year old with 10 different illnesses and who cant even touch the ground on the bike because their belly sits on the tank so high.

[@spicy110]

I mean how many other things are age-restricted? I think they work on statistics, so no some 21 yr olds would be fine no issue, the question is the average.

[@lukealmighty8828]

I'm 35 been on a cbt for 5 year now and don't really have a need or want for bigger bike

[@jacko2815]

Do you need to renew the CBT?

[@lukealmighty8828]

@jacko2815 yeah ever 2 years

[@jacko2815]

@@lukealmighty8828 cheers mate

[@griptopia]

i think doing away with the repeat cbt is a good idea, main reason, your insurance goes down by 80% in some instances! insurance before test on a 125 was £1000 and after passing my test same bike £250 for the year a quarter of the price in my case.

[@spicy110]

Did anything else change like bike or job or location?

[@kev.j.goodwin8612]

Makes you think when they used to hand a 1000 hp, 8 machine gun Spitfire to an 18 years old rookie fighter pilot back in 1940!

[@spicy110]

That is kinda a different situation though isn't it. Sidenote, not as an argument its just really interesting. I think there was only one 18yr old spitfire pilot Geoffrey Wellum, so that was very much the exception rather than the norm. The average age was early 20s so not a huge difference., but that means people of today could be riding any motorcycle at the same age if they passed A2 at 19 and then full A at 21.

[@BlokeOnAMotorbike]

I am not liking the idea of no repeat CBT. I want the option of not having to do the A1 and stick to A roads, also what's the point of the A1 if you're not planning a Euro trip?

[@mc127]

Why, it costs your more money over time and you only have to prove you can ride safely???

[@seanpamphile9380]

Sounds more complicated. So get ur cbt and it allows 50 to125 for two hrs. A1 Take the skills test that is 250 to 400. Hold that for two yrs then A2 400cc to 800cc. Then for A3 800 to 1000+ on up full license. You do written test once and skills test ea time to move on.

[@davidmwood560]

Good God! How confusing! I took my motorcycle test in August 1962. Since then, I've driven just about everything under the sun, from an Ariel Golden Arrow to an 1800cc Honda Gold Wing without incident of any kind. I took my car licence the following year (1963) and I've never had a ticket or claim of any kind. The old ways were the best ways in my opinion, and didn't need a "Job's worth" who doesn't drive at all to mess with it.

[@marktiller1383]

I passed my full motorcycle test in 1978 and my first motorcycle was a new blue 1977 Kawasaki KH 250 B2.

[@yorkiegilly4355]

I rode my first bike with L plates fitted with a sidecar at 16 a BSA A10 ,which was a hell of a lump to throw around when in those days I weighed about a third of what I do at the moment ?. The test like others have said a quick wizz around the block and I even took the tester up the road and through the gears ,but as a lad who"s Granddad had a farm and at the back of our house was a massive British Road Services lorry park so I had ridden bikes ,scooters & mopeds around since I was 10 .But then Biking was not just for fun ,it was a way of life and used by most adults for all forms of transport as modern cars are today . Anybody who ever rode a outfit will tell you they need more talent ,especially to ride - fast . It helped me because most members of the family including my late wife"s - rode bikes, well my Father & Mother in law ,did .I still own a collection of big bikes in my 70s and some classic cars . If I had my time over again I would almost certainly not bother getting a bike License ,just one read of the woes and expense on this page would tell you why ?. But I hardly think saying much higher insurance premiums will effect the driving of high powered cars ,that is hardly the point - the harder rules with Big Bikes hardly make it fair . MY local corner shop owning Asian guy has a handful of sons who fly around in every kind of Supercar thanks to their rich Dad being a nice bloke & Dad and paying their enormous insurance fees and of course Clarkson guarantee that only the rich will be able to own a car well into the future and come the laws about E.V. all this will seem to be even more weird ?.

[@sj_-_]

The cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias quotients are strong in this thread.

[@spicy110]

It is the internet...haha😉

[@reverendrocksteady]

Why has there never been any such similar restrictions on young car drivers?!?

[@jimdavis8391]

The insurance costs will have that effect.

[@FatRakoon]

I did a part 1 and a part 2. Nice and simple. My son, did a CBT and then the theory and he failed the theory a few times, with the 2-part bit, he passed one part but kept failing the other and this was random, and he failed by 1, 2 or 3 points and thats all. In the end he gave up. He is now no longer riding a bike or driving a car as he is sick of it. My daughter is in a similar situation with her car test, although her instructor was clearly a money grabber and she has now stopped learning to drive completely as she was waiting for a test for almost 3 years now and she has been promised test after test after test and its been postponed many times... We now think that this is all down to her instructor! This is a huge shame, but the thing is, that his mates are in a similar position. In our bike club, there is 4 Chapters and 73 members, and we had brought the issue with the multi-part tests and there re a huge number of people that simply do not want to drive or ride a bike purely because the tests are nothing more than money makers.

[@grahamsibbert2412]

I took my test in 1963, very simple. Ride a few weeks on my Triumph Speed Twin 500 , apply for my test . Test was ride in a figure of 8 around the houses. Test passed, L plates over the nearest fence. Been riding big bikes since, never had a real crash, fell off in the ice a couple of times and that’s it. Now aged 77 and have given up riding for health and safety of others. So very complicated now.

[@stevenyates6732]

Some of us spent alot more than £700 on traning, I've hear the upgrade training is not 1 hour, but over 7 hours