Spider Man: The Trial of Peter Parker - Atop the Fourth Wall

Welcome to Atop the Fourth Wall, where bad comics burn. In this episode, Linkara looks at a story from the Clone Saga where Peter Parker is put on trial!
atopthefourthwall.com
Originally uploaded October 27th, 2014.
RUMINATIONS: After I had introduced Eliza (as I had promised to do if I got a foam lizard), I realized I had no idea what to do with her. The fakeout with suggesting that she was connected with the King worked very well, and then pull a nice switcheroo on the audience by having her help save the day. And of course, this got a chance to show off Pollo using all his past bodies. If you’re wondering how his old body could still function, that’s easy - after they regained his mind, they tore out all the fired circuitry and put in fresh stuff. It’s still an old body so he has no desire to use it again, but he can transfer to it in a pinch. Mind you, out-of-universe, that isn’t going to happen. Even filming A LITTLE bit with it caused a bunch of its paint to flake off, so it’s best just sitting on a shelf.
As I’ve said before, the King of Worms arc was never meant to be a storyline, but had to be pulled together as setup for the next major arc, since I wasn’t ready for the Sleepwalker yet and I had the movie coming. Many believed the ambiguous ending was intended for the movie, but nope - it was specifically for the Sleepwalker, hence the phrase in the weird vision/dream/soul shredding of “Sleepwalk through eternity.” That’s the backwards talk Linkara is saying in said vision, though of course I said it wrong instead of just reversing the speech, so if you play it forward it doesn’t work.
Said vision freaked a lot of people out and there are a lot of really good theories about what it means, the best one that people have put forth being that it’s peering into the real world (since the plot hole was the last villain that the King of Worms spotted). There IS symbolism to everything seen there, though I love this kind of speculation and people have thought up some damn good stuff there. However, the REALLY big reveal was of course Vyce and 90s Kid working together. Fortunately, I had just gotten a new chair and a different computer/monitor set up, so my desk was cleaned off and it looked different enough that I could film in front of it while not making it obvious that they were just in the apartment. All of that will come to a head in the current storyline happening over on my site (well, currently as in “it’ll resume soon”).
And finally we have updated effects again thanks to the Game Show Reviewer, with the new portal, new weapons, some new blood splatters from the King, and some rejiggering to the Pollos coming through the portal instead of just appearing in the white area.

[@dylannix2372]

You know it's sad when Grandma got run over run by a reindeer more accurately represents the court system

[@jfdrac]

IM Slime Attorney at Law

[@dnmstarsi]

Jake Spankenheimer: Ace Attorney

[@logicaloverdrive8197]

@@dnmstarsi Jake Spankenheimer: Ave Attorney: Jingle for all

[@AroAceGamer]

@@jfdrac I am Slime.

[@cookiemocher388]

@@AroAceGamer you said it, not me

[@jessaminehaak8253]

Don't you think the point at which Carnage is screaming "Objection!" before they even start the trial would be the point at which even Judas Traveller would realise what a phenomenally stupid idea this was?

[@jfdrac]

Not what you realize just how phenomenally STUPID Traveller was no lol

[@travisjones9933]

No. I don’t.

[@eon1014]

The better question would be: “Why would Judas Traveller, a supposedly (emphasis on “supposedly”) expert psychologist, trust the word of a dangerously insane lunatic like Carnage”? Carnage’s word is basically worthless since there’s no way to tell if he’s telling the truth or not. I mean, sure, the readers know that Carnage is full of crap and can’t be trusted, but Traveller wouldn’t be able to necessarily tell at first glance...but even then, he at least knows who Carnage is and what he’s capable of since Traveller has clearly read up about Cletus, so again, he has even less reason to believe anything that Carnage says or to allow him to participate in the “trial”.

[@beats0me]

I’d love for marvel to publish a ‘what if’ comic where that happens and Judas thinks “oh dear god, what am I doing with my life?”

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

Seems like comic and cartoon characters are incapable of that level of self reflection, so no.

[@brianriff8550]

I love the gag about J Jonah Jameson celebrating Peter being exonerated; surprised your lines arent literally in the comic, they fit so well

[@yoursonisold8743]

The idea of Kaine being in love with Peter (so also himself in a way) is just hilarious to me.

[@autobotstarscream765]

Yourson Isold Which ship is better, Spiderkaine or Spideypool? :3

[@proxydude6055]

Autobot Starscream Neither are compitent but miles morales X gwenpool works not in a homophobic way

[@HalfTangible]

And technically that would mean Kaine hates himself, too... cuz he DOES hate Ben...

[@Archon3960]

Sounds a bit like the relation between Sebastian and Grell (from Black Butler) to me !

[@Agamemnon2]

I can't get over the Kaine's luscious flowing locks contrasted with the rest of his ragged, corrupted design.

[@clearspira]

Seriously though, you raise a good question. What WERE Matt Murdoch and She-Hulk doing during all of this? Two of the best lawyers in canon just standing by and watching one of the (former?) Avengers being held for trail. That's what I hate about stand alone comics because it assumes that the other heroes are just sitting on their asses. And hell, what about Tony Stark and Reed Richards? Couldn't THEY with all of their millions have bought him a team of the best lawyers in the world?

[@alucardyoici]

+clearspira well murdock I get but the others would kind of raise questions on why would they defend the guy who take photo of spider-man

[@brandonlyon730]

I say similar things with them and the X-men and mutants in general, especially with Cap, you'd think with all the stuff he's been through with Nazis, Communists, Hydra, and that whole Civil event he would be horrified for what people had done to them and help them out.

[@jfdrac]

She Hulk I can understand not being used since as far as I know at this time she had no idea who Spidey really was......This was back when Peters ID was actually still big and the number of people he trusted was very small

[@grantmoore8228]

Hell, Wonderella is a better lawyer than this guy! And her legal knowledge is watching the first half of every law and order episode!

[@davidspring4003]

I don't think Spider-Man had been an avenger at this point, but I'm pretty sure Matt has defended Peter before.

[@Dreigonix]

35:23 _“I see now that it is not the circumstances of one’s birth, but what one chooses to do with the gift of life that makes us who we are.”_ -Mewtwo

[@Writer10389]

"Normal is relative." Best line of the show

[@misterbubbles6389]

Thank you for that little talk about clones, Linkara. I'm *really* sick of characters in stories acting like clones aren't real people. It's ridiculous. The circumstances of their creation don't matter since they're still human beings with their own thoughts and identities. In fact, because of the imperfect nature of DNA replication, clones literally become their own genetically distinct beings within a relatively short period of time. Sure, they'll still share large sections of DNA with the people they were created from, but their personalities and genes will become more and more distant from them as time goes one. No two people, not even identical twins, have the same experiences of the real world and reach the same conclusions about things. And yeah, with the revelation that Ben was the original, we probably wouldn't have had to deal with the idiocy of One More Day. But hey, that's hindsight for ya.

[@davidspring4003]

Hell, even if it was retconned that he wasn't, it still could have been a decent way to transition Spidey into a legacy character

[@ALIEN-DUDE]

Yeah I don't understand the CLONEophobia 😆😅😐😞

[@plantainsame2049]

@@ALIEN-DUDE I do because if there was another me they're me that me would try to kill me so I need to kill him 1st but hill have the same thought process And we'll try to kill me Basically I know all my flaws and economy would have the same flaws and I don't want to have to deal with that

[@Cdr2002]

THIS. THANK YOU

[@ALIEN-DUDE]

​@@plantainsame2049 what?

[@Tareltonlives]

I love how there are more than 15 dumber villain plans than this on this show

[@Altair718]

Y'know, that 'Peter is the clone' thing could've been easily resolved as follows: Have everyone still be upset at the revelation, but instead of having Peter flip out on everyone, let him come to the realization that,for all intents and purposes, he IS Peter Parker; and now that Ben is a free man, he can be Ben Riley and live life as he sees fit. Ben parts ways with the couple, with Peter inviting him to visit them and the baby once it's toddling around. BAM. End of the clone Saga.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

Two problems with that my friend, one unlike young justice which had Roy be a clone from the start Spider-Man wasn't one for a long time which would make this reveal alienate long time readers. Two why would Ben have to stay Ben, he was the original Peter it's not his fault years of his life were taken away. Why shouldn't Peter change his name

[@Altair718]

Because he's pretty much lived as Peter up until this point. Same with Ben, yeah?

[@fightingmedialounge519]

well let me put it to you like this if you put in a situation where you lost years of your life and the found out someone else was living as you would you just let them continue

[@Altair718]

That would only make sense if he knew he was the real Peter the entire time. He didn't. They literally threw that in the end of this issue, and now Ben's like 'argh, you stole my life!' And Peter's reaction was just as dumb. But I digress. I was 10 when I read all this, and a lot of stuff is lost to me.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

you do have a point but something else we have to take into account is Ben initially tried consoling peter, and only went `argh, you stole my life!' when peter attacked him going 'argh you must be lying even though you gain nothing from it!,

[@OmegaGameDude]

Funny thing is...your "clone banging = Masturbation" joke? ULTIMATE MARVEL brought that up In that universe Spider-Woman is a clone of Peter, and when 616 peter crossed over with Miles in Ultimate Marvel(COMIC BOOKS!)this exchange basically happened "Peter: you're me? Spiderwoman: yes... Peter: *smirks* Spider Woman:Just so you know, I would consider it masturbation

[@daelen.cclark]

Falkor Gaming That was hilarious.

[@joelcraig9803]

Peter hit M.J. because she was so badly drawn that he didn't recognize her.

[@travisjones9933]

dbzfan22 it’s nothing but wannabe Todd MacFarlane obvises

[@andrewbarone3781]

Really? I thought that was actually just Spidercide disguised as Peter. I mean, did you see his jaw when he lept at Ben?

[@andrewbarone3781]

@@travisjones9933 It's so McFarlane-esque you can practically see the Spawn-ness dripping from Kaine's every pore. If he doesn't stop soon the whole city will be flooded with "edge".

[@beats0me]

Andrew Barone I was looking at that panel of peter leaping in the video and wondering ‘who the hell is that?’, reminds me of this panel from countdown where superboy prime is leaping and is badly off-model

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

Six years ago, and it's still a great comment.

[@Bussani]

I understand the resistance people had to the idea of Peter being the clone all along, but it was a pretty good twist and a ballsy move. It definitely could have worked if they'd stuck with it. That said, I think I prefer Linkara's previous idea: finding out that there's no way to tell which one is 'real' and leaving it forever ambiguous--even pointing out that at the end of the day, it doesn't matter, since they're functionally identical up until the moment the clone was created and they started living separate lives.

[@Wren_the_Bird_King]

So he's now killed 2 outer gods through indirect methods. I'm impressed.

[@kamenweirdo9276]

Linkara, The Indirect Killer of Gods

[@Egalitariat-likesecretariat]

Linkara, the Vaguely Dangerous Thing in Respect to Gods

[@islamroks11]

I love that "EXACT! CHANGE! ONLY!" line.

[@nathanthompson4613]

islamroks11 It turns out that fists are a rather effective mode of transport. You get transport and a nap, and it’s way cheaper than a cab. I recommend it

[@TPrower]

As a fan of the Ace Attorney series, I applaud the title card and the 'Objection!' to Mary Jane testifying.

[@TevyaSmolka]

+TPrower lol

[@TheHeroOfTomorrow]

+TPrower That, and Judas's smirk is so Edgeworth.

[@POLE7645]

+TheHeroOfTomorrow Now that I think about it, Traveler kinda bears a slight resemblance to Manfred von Karma.

[@TevyaSmolka]

TheHeroOfTomorrow i agree with that

[@rhymebeat1142]

I also love that he went for Apollo's Objection as opposed to Pheonix's.

[@Mask0fFate]

You know, I know I said this when I watched the 5th year anniversary for AT4W on KZbin, but I need to point this out again. It sure was nice that the King of Worms let Linkara film is latest review while in captivity. I mean, I know he's going to dissect his soul in a short while, but DAMMIT HIS HAT IS PRETTY!

[@tenkaiechi01]

Spiders are covered in tiny hairs called trichobothria which grant them their own version of the Spidey-Sense. These hairs,(just like Spider-Man's hair(s), detect micro shifts and vibrations in the environment. Kaine being of similar skill(powers) can possibly use this to his advantage by attacking when this skill is more likely to be lessened either by environment or other factors. Kaine would know this weakness(if it does exist) and would definitely exploit it.

[@Clonekiller66]

"Has the imperial majesty reached a verdict?" "I have...." "Guilty or Innocent?" "Innocent!" "Feed these comics to the Sharkticons!"

[@lightyearpig12]

Kaine: I will not let you hurt my Spider-senpai! Peter: You basically just called yourself your senpai. Kaine: T-that's besides the point you b-baka!

[@Magnum-hopper]

And this is why I Don't watch anime toku to the maxxxxx

[@ALIEN-DUDE]

Judas traveler should put you on trial for being cringe

[@Magnum-hopper]

@@ALIEN-DUDE yes kaine

[@ALIEN-DUDE]

​@@Magnum-hopper adios mafia

[@Gambit771]

Interviewing the wife reminds of how every soap opera always has a wife phoning the doctors to find out what happened during his consultation. Doctors never reveal what was said.

[@tjjordan4207]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but........ this idea of having Spider-Man and Peter Parker on trial is actually an interesting an idea. It isn't well done, but I see some potential. Having the two better halves of our hero being judged and hated does have an emotional edge. However, because it is the Clone Saga, the idea is built on a not-so-well-received foundation.

[@thetruewisegamer]

Well technically it happened with a she-hulk during with Spiderman the bugle,but she also included peter Parker because she doesn’t know his identity so they had to screw the entire plan.

[@pinoypizza]

Oh man, the vision that Linkara had. Talk about nightmare fuel. No wonder the character would have a breakdown in the movie.

[@New3DSLuigi364]

I SAY IT WAS THE ENTITY AIDING LINKARA FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASON!!!!!!! W-H-Y WOULD MISSINGNO AID LINKARA; WHAT BENEFITS DOES IT GAIN FROM HELPING ITS ADVERSARY?!?!?!

[@liamkennedy8768]

i think the entity actually died but genaly power doesn't just go away so linkara inherited its power but isn't aware of it

[@christiancrusader9374]

New3DSLUIGI364 simple, the entity was hiding inside him, slowly exerting more control. the king tried to shred linkara's soul so he fought back.

[@nathanthompson4613]

It’s possible that the Entity doesn’t currently consider him a true adversary, given that it’s either dead or trying something dead at this point

[@Merit2397]

While I don't think this is the best story from AT4W... that ending was one that truly gave me chills. Nicely done Lewis. Nicely done.

[@captainautobots]

34:13 "Judas Traveler *yet again* tries to convince us that we're supposed to take him and his stupid 2 belts seriously!" That's just where you're wrong, Linkara! For you see, he actually has FOUR belts! One hidden under his first belt, and another hidden behind his second! Squint hard enough, and you can see them! Power like that rivals the Infinity Gauntlet AND the Anti-life Equation combined!

[@TheMamaluigi300]

Just 4 regular belts? Pffft, that’s underselling him. Dude’s got the henshin belts of every Kamen Rider to ever exist hidden against his waist

[@starwarsnerd100]

Also the "hero creates his own villains" thing has always baffled me, on several levels. For one, its often ONLY makes sense on that meta "without a main character we wouldn't need villains" level. Most of the time if the hero never picked up crime fighting there'd still be mad scientist experiments gone wrong or alien invasions or other villain origins. For another, if it turns out the hero IS responsible, why are we reading about them? It turns into the equivalent of Spec Ops: The Line where everything would be better if the hero just went home. It only KINDA works for Batman cuz A)There's that whole "escalation" thing from Year One/Long Halloween B) His methods are often criticized as being ineffective or too extreme by other characters in universe anyways.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

What you said about batman applies to most hero's

[@starwarsnerd100]

Kye Dysarthria To a degree, but it applies to batman more than others IMO.

[@brandonlyon730]

A thing that is never brought up about the "Hero creates villains" thing, is when the Hero was involved in outside world threatening events that happened regardless of them or their actions. Like stopping Galactis from eating the planet or a Kree invasion. Even if the Hero was responsible for creating his rogues gallery had he never existed and been involved with these events they would've been killed or enslaved regardless. This also applies with Batman and others heroes with threats like Darkseid, the black lanterns, or the anti-monitor.

[@ilopominecrafter]

Actually, venom is the only real villain created by a hero, as he literally was created by spiderman due to the symbiote and the events that led to him becoming it

[@Carnagevenomtoxin]

Especially when those claims come from Carnage in this particular story who would have been a mass murdering psychopath regardless if he had the symbiote or not.

[@SuperDevolution]

The chicken from Futurama is a better defense attorney than Peter's.

[@meowistforlife]

SuperDevolution I may be a simple country......bogaack

[@beats0me]

“What proof do you have of this new plea of insanity?” “Well they dun hired me to represent them” “Insanity plea accepted”

[@faidreview1186]

the Spider-Sense is kind of like an alarm. it gives Spidey understanding of the area around him kind of like a sonar in the back of his mind, which looks for threats. that is how he swings around without looking where he is shooting his webs. he needs to identify where the danger is to dodge (IE: danger is coming from behind, waist height. need to back flip.) the problem is things that are faster than Peter or that the spider sense detects as 'itself' are invisible to the Spider-Sense, which is how the Symbiotes and clones get around it. another gap is those that Peter don't see as a threat. those close to him that would never hurt him in his mind. his loved ones. the Spider-Sense ignores them for that reason

[@TheHeroOfTomorrow]

True story-my introduction to Kaine was in the Spider-Girl series...where he kinda looked like Judas Traveler, oddly enough-and yet that comic made him more threatening and badass than he ever was here.

[@JaelinBezel]

Me too (kinda, not counting this review). Still reading that series, just got vol 4

[@364dragonrider]

I love how after platinum’d linksano is shot platinum’d harvey just looks forward. Like he knows he doesn’t have time to do anything so he just looks to where the shot came from like “Well I’m screwed.”

[@nicholashurst780]

Fun Fact: that's not how fingerprints work. None of the clones should have Peter's. Identical twins have the same DNA, skin tone, eye color, hair color, hair texture, etc BUT not the same fingerprints

[@cookiemocher388]

Twins aren't the same thing as clones though, I think suspicion of disbelief already been stretched by the fact that clones can have the same memories, having the same fingerprints is not that unbelievable

[@wchan39]

20:35 Since you're bringing different universes into this, maybe Peter would've been better off hiring Phoenix Wright 'cause, you know...Marvel vs Capcom...

[@LoliconSamalik]

wchan39 unfortunately Mr Wright didn't get his first case until 2001

[@dragonthunderx3250]

Samir Malik wrong his first case took place in 2016

[@nathanthompson4613]

I like the idea of Spider-Man in court, but I’d probably be more interested in something less cliche than “you’re on trial for creating your enemies.” I think it’d be more interesting if Peter had jury duty, and the defendant was someone Spider-Man had caught. Would Peter acknowledge the conflict of interest, or would he try his hardest to get the guy convicted? The former would probably be a more compelling and humorous story, while the latter is probably something Frank Miller would probably enjoy writing.

[@JaelinBezel]

There's already a Batman comic about exactly this. I think there's a video explaining it somewhere here on KZbin.

[@bwminich]

I loved this storyline. Creepy King of Worms was Creepy. For a storyline you say was thrown together quickly, I wouldn't have known - it follows the Entity stuff so well. And I remember being all 'WTF 90s Kid are you doing?!?!?!" Still looking forward to that one. :D

[@EHH246]

33:37. Now I can tell it's Sal Buscema under all of Bill Sienkiewicz's inks... because Peter Parker has that bug eyed look that Buscema would give to the Hulk. :P

[@GanonGhidorah]

Y'know...I think at the end with the revelation of Peter being the actual clone and Riley being the original one; it legitimately comes off as being pointless as it is filled with too many holes and it doesn't even feel like it's necessary. Basically - the idea that Ben Riley as a clone can somehow have all of Peter's Memories...really kind of bugs me. It actually lessens the idea that Ben is and even can be his own person, and not just a copy of Peter; plus I can't get past how impossible the idea is. The same neuron charges that cause memories would have to be flowing through both of their brains at the same time in order for them both to inherit the memories. And that's ultimately the reason why I see a hole in it; mainly because at this point...it shouldn't matter if the other is the clone and the other is the original...and that all has to do with Mary Jane. The simple fact is, regardless if Peter is the clone or not...she's still Married to HIM and having HIS child; the history of their marriage is literally the only memory that Ben does NOT have. Therefore, if Ben is the real Peter...it doesn't matter; because if they switch back, he'll literally be stepping into a Stranger's Shoes... It's kind of like the concept of crossing over in Multiverse Theory; just because you CAN take over the life of your alternate-self, doesn't mean it's going to be seamless. The slightest difference between your two histories will have drastic ramifications to long-term events.

[@antwan1357]

You did something that no one has ever done, You explained Kaine's powers. Kaine is such a neglected character that no one even explained Kaine's precognitive abilities. Also this goes a long way to explaining what the spider sense is as Peter Parker is actually a passive telepath or the proper term would be empath. As Peter Parker is so empathic to the minds of those around him that he can sense danger coming at him from miles away. If the danger sense is activated by robots etc would suggest simply that the writer doesn't understand how spiderman's danger sense works .

[@Igarappappa]

It's basically just an internal alarm more or less. Some have it triggering to something like being spied on while others will have it so certain things won't set it off even when they're a direct threat. Like when he was fighting the Spot and being attacked by all sides his Spider-Sense wasn't going off cause the attacks were coming out of another dimension.

[@Fluffkitscripts]

Well, it’s still known to trigger at things like avalanches or the like. I’d call it more like… telekinetic radar?

[@TheMamaluigi300]

I think Kingpin should've been the prosecutor.

[@SpawnRevenge92]

Excellent idea.

[@tjjordan4207]

Spider-Man being put on trial with his villains in audience and as the jury is actually a great idea in my opinion. Sure it’s a ripoff of the Batman TAS episode but I can see it working.

[@brunomidrash]

It did, it was the best part of this arc. Linkara raises a few points about flaws in the procedure, but Judas Traveller didn't mean it as an actual trial anyway, it was an experiment to understand Kaine's commitment and zeal for Peter Parker. It was a fun issue, mostly.

[@carloszapata847]

This incident of Peter hitting MJ will only be referenced in Spiderman 3.

[@ethanedwards3357]

And that was justified. Don't do Symbiotes, kids. Stay in school.

[@lukasvonweidts9681]

You know, if someone were to watch this as their first episode of the show, they would be completely and utterly lost by the 1 minute mark

[@Tareltonlives]

What, it's just a bunch of robots fighting posessed people to save a dimension hopping guy in a cool hat from an extraplanar abhomination!

[@gracekim25]

😂

[@ninjaman1986]

The ending music for this video is chilling and I love it

[@zhazha23]

Seeing so many Pollos at once makes me wonder if he'd be down for making a barbershop quartet featuring he, himself, and him.

[@godzillasaurbuttersworth3176]

"…and how he TOTALLY wants to do him!" Nice 😂 Also, thank you for bringing up all the legal inconsistencies, that really bugged me.

[@ramirezthesilvite]

20:07 Or at the very least, played a Phoenix Wright game! It would be more accurate than this comic.

[@autobotstarscream765]

How did the Spider-Man franchise survive the Clone Saga with stories like this?

[@ethanedwards3357]

Autobot Starscream You tell me.

[@DarsiPadilla]

@@ethanedwards3357 even if One More Day killes the character, the carcass is still being paraded. Hey, even I am baffled.

[@dwainjones2251]

@@DarsiPadilla Blame Joe Quesada's status quo on keeping him a manchild for the younger audience.

[@DarsiPadilla]

@@dwainjones2251 Pretty much.

[@skyslasher2297]

You sweep everything under the rug in a scorched earth campaign

[@TheSkully343]

I really want to see where this is going with the Sleepwalker arc. I can't wait for more Linkara-senpai. Especially with 90s Kid and Vyce TEAMING UP! Also I would like to know the name of the beautiful piano piece that plays during the credits because it sounds really good.

[@Axioanarchist]

+TheSkully343 I think that's the part credited in the ending slates as "The Cloud" by Sandy Burnett.

[@TheSkully343]

Axioanarchist Thanks.

[@clockworktri]

Now that I have discovered Legal Eagle, I really want DJ to guest on an episode to talk about everything wrong with a comic book trail scene!

[@cameronlapage7386]

Peter's lawyer actually manages to be worse than Cecile when defending the Flash.

[@Nekufan1000000]

And to add to the bad trial stuff, MJ's testimony of Peter being a good person IS COMPLETELY VIABLE. It's called being a CHARACTER WITNESS, defined as someone attesting to the defendant's moral fiber as a good person! Pete's lawyer could easily have had MJ talk about how good a person Peter Parker is, even if she can't reveal the Spider Man identity Peter himself has done a lot of good things, unless the clone saga retconed those out of existence. So the prosecution saying he's "not interested in [her] biased opinions" may have been accurate for what HE wanted, but it's not dismissible either. It's like they didn't even watch LAW AND ORDER to get a sense of how court rooms work, and that's a lot easier than actual research, and would have been more realistic than this.

[@maakujiten3812]

@Charmiskit Character witnesses are to try to set up a pattern of behavior. A talented prosecutor can use this to establish a negative pattern of behavior that the crime might fall into.

[@JaelinBezel]

@Charmiskit Well this Lawyer youtuber described it like this, in regards to proving your case with evidence: it's like you're trying to build a mountain one stone at a time. The burden of proof lies with the prosecution while the Defense's job is to create reasonable doubt. Which is why the Prosecution calling Mary Jane instead of the Defense calling Mary Jane makes no sense whatsoever.

[@tylerleach8796]

God, the ending to this episode with the King of Worms death reveal still gives me chills. It's just such a great horror twist and the music that plays at the end is haunting.

[@DigiRangerScott]

Happy sixth anniversary! AGAIN! May it be the 6th anniversary for all eternity!

[@nathanthompson4613]

Scott Sandler Is it still the Sixth Anniversary in year seven? Have we seen a miracle?

[@kelvingoce7587]

I don’t know maybe

[@tmb11212]

Spider sense works like a alarm clock, it can detect danger, but he must be aware of where that danger is.

[@transylvani600]

Judas traveller a poor man's Dr. Strange

[@autobotstarscream765]

transylvanai 5600 More like a poor man's Doctor Strange *villain* than a knock-off of the Sorceror Supreme himself, amirite?

[@andrewbarone3781]

@@autobotstarscream765 Actually he has more in common with Mysterio than he does Doctor Strange. Both were just fakers who were pretending to have "amazing godlike powers". The difference between them is that Mysterio uses technology whereas Traveller has powers, but just illusion-casting abilities or something similar enough (I think he's a mutant, but I'm not sure, I guess that also kind of makes him like Mastermind.).

[@DeathofInk]

The ending to this story arc still gives me chills! Wish I could go back in time to before all the revelations came to light so I can experience this for the first time again.

[@infamousempire8302]

8:17: That had me cracked up for a good few minutes.

[@SchazmenRassir]

I love your storylines, man. I have literally nothing else to say at this point.

[@Deadwolf27]

I love that foam Dinosaur on a string with sunglasses. She is the best

[@lodn113]

Just me going through the entire Atop the Fourth Wall playlist again and I can never get enough of the King of Worms storyline love it do death ^^

[@JaelinBezel]

They brought Kaine back but (incoming Nostalgia Critic joke) "WHAT ABOUT SPINNERETTE?"

[@joshuaingobo1559]

Spinnerette will live.

[@JaelinBezel]

AHHHHH!! \(^0^)/

[@ethanedwards3357]

That's a reference to the webcomic, ain't it?

[@JaelinBezel]

@@ethanedwards3357 There's no webcomic

[@davidspring4003]

Here's something I've learned watching fictional trials. If either side's opening statement is just "this is my job," that side doesn't have a leg to stand on.

[@CazTheGamerGuy]

You know...I could see them do something interesting with having Peter on trial alongside Spider-man a la the dream sequence during the black costume/Venom's introduction, but this is just a mess, not helped by Judas McPhilosopher and a worse prosecuting attorney than Winston Payne.

[@Naruto85RasenShurike]

While I love this review, I do have some problems with Linakra's criticisms towards Kaine, as aside from Ben Reilly, Kaine was my favorite character from the entire CLONE SAGA! See, I've actually read the entire saga myself for a review series I wrote, and Kaine was one of the most interesting characters to be produced from it in my opinion. My first issue is Linker's criticisms of Kaine's plan of framing Ben Reilly with Peter's fingerprints, as while they are valid when judging THE TRIAL OF PETER PARKER on it's own, they actually made a prequel story called THE LOST YEARS that actually explained what happened in Salt Lake City. It turned out that the reason Kaine killed that cop Louise Kennedy was not to frame Reilly, but rather because he had actually fallen in love with her before she was revealed to have been affiliated with the mob. When Kaine first met Louise, he saw her as his last hope of actually having something resembling a human life, as she also appeared to be someone who struggled with the demons of her past, but was able to overcome them and channel her abilities into law enforcement. This gave Kaine hope, as he felt that he now also had a chance of redeeming himself, but that hope was shattered when he discovered that she gave into the darkness and became a corrupt cop working with gangsters and drug dealers. This, along with Kaine's accelerating clone degeneration, caused him to lose all hope in being a normal human being, and he killed her out of anger and made her the first victim to be branded with his "Mark of Kaine." I can also defend Kaine's framing of Ben Reilly, as Ben was not only there at the scene of the crime after Kaine fled, but that Detective Raven also found Ben standing over her body. We also saw in that story that Raven and Ben did know each other before all of this went down, and that Raven had no knowledge of Peter's existence until the events of the present day. The only other murders Kaine committed that caught Detective Raven's attention in the story were the mobsters he killed in THE EXILE RETURNS story, which lead him to coming to New York where he was able to compare Peter's fingerprints to the ones that Kaine left on Louise Kennedy's body back in Salt Lake City, and since New York was the only state that had records of Peter's prints, it was only then that Raven was able to file a warrant for Peter's arrest. We also saw in previous stories that Kaine was strongly determined to keep Ben away from New York in order to prevent him from interfering in Peter's life. Based on this information, I feel that Kaine believed that Peter was safe from harm as long as he kept Ben away from New York since Raven had no jurisdiction there (until Kaine killed the aforementioned mobsters that is), but Kaine's plans were botched when he followed Ben to the big apple and then got carried away by actively killing Spider-Man villains out of desperation due to the visions he had of MJ being killed by an unknown assailant. The final problem I have is the criticisms about Kaine's name and costume being generic. While I'm fully aware that Cain was an overused name in comics during the 90's, I felt that it actually worked in this case. Unlike most 90's characters who were named Cain just to sound EXTREEEMMMEE!!!! Kaine's name here effectively reflects his entire character and personality. When the Jackal first created his clones, he said he wanted to be symbolic by naming the first Peter clone something like Adam, but since Kaine developed clone degeneration, it makes sense that he would go with that name as Cain is the opposite of Adam. Also, just like the biblical Cain, this Kaine is an outcast, separated from the rest of humanity due to his status as a failed clone, and eventually devolved into a psychotic serial killer. As for his costume, I honestly don't care that it's not spider-based as I feel it's more important that it resembles his status as a failed clone. The long hair, the black color palette, and the tattered purple cape perfectly capture his role as an outcast, and the gray veiny pattern heavily resembles the actual scars that cover his body. Also, you could easily make the argument that the veins could easily resemble spider-webs, or that his costume looks somewhat like a black widow or tarantula. Either way, I felt that Kaine's name and costume worked within the context of his character while also providing symbolism. And I think we can all agree that even if you don't like Kaine's name and costume, they're both a million times better than Spidercide's crappy name and vomit-inducing costume! Aside from those complaints, I really love this review, and felt that Linkara did a great job in tearing apart what was in my opinion, the second worst story of the entire CLONE SAGA (right in between SMOKE AND MIRRORS and of course, MAXIMUM CLONAGE)! Man was THE TRIAL OF PETER PARKER a painful experience when I had to read it for my own review series!

[@Naruto85RasenShurike]

Eamonn Deane I can see where you're coming from with that. I don't deny that Kaine's role in the saga could have been handled better, but still I felt that he and Ben Reilly were the two characters that suffered the least amount of problems throughout the duration of the saga. And I honestly don't mind his costume as I like how it resembles his status as a failed clone and an outcast. That being said, I do feel that Kaine's presence as a mysterious new villain would have been more powerful if the writers hadn't also tried to shove in Judas Traveller and Scrier into the story! If they had only stuck to having one mystery villain, it would have saved the story by a wide margin in my eyes. In all honesty, I feel that had Kaine should have been the main villain of the entire saga. Unlike Judas Traveller who came completely out of nowhere, Kaine actually had more purpose in the story due to his past with Ben Reilly, and and he served as somewhat of a dark foil to both Peter and Ben at the same time. Whereas Ben represented Peter's nobility and optimism, Kaine reflected the darkness that Peter was capable of if he chose to abandon his sense of responsibility. I feel that there's so much character psychology that could have been explored with these concepts, and while we still got quite a bit of it in the saga (primarily in stories like THE LOST YEARS and THE EXILE RETURNS), they were heavily bogged down by the saga going on for way too long and being filled with either completely pointless or bad stories. Here's how I feel the saga should have played out: just have the focus of the story be about Peter Parker, Ben Reilly and Kaine. Have Peter and Ben be at odds at first but then start to form a brotherly bond. Then have Kaine be the main antagonist, as he drives Peter and Ben closer to discovering who is actually the clone. Don't bring the Jackal back from the dead and turn him into a one-dimensional Joker rip-off, but instead have his influence linger on in the form of his past research coming back to haunt the three Spider-Men, which temporarily fools them into thinking that Peter's actually the clone and Ben the original. Drop Judas Traveller, Scrier, and Spidercide completely from the plot, and THE CLONE SAGA would have had a much better chance at being an epic story in my humble opinion!

[@Naruto85RasenShurike]

Eamonn Deane Also, Christopher Yost, the author of Kaine's SCARLET SPIDER series, stated in the letters column of the first issue that, "There are no bad characters, just lost opportunities. And Kaine was certainly ripe for someone to bring him back onstage." I'm so glad that writers like J.M. DeMatteis (he wrote THE LOST YEARS and its sequel, which fleshed out Ben and Kaine's past and rivalry; DeMatteis was also the writer of KRAVEN'S LAST HUNT) and Christopher Yost recognized the potential of Kaine's character, as he's easily ranks among my favorite Spider-Man villains (Alongside Norman and Harry's incarnations as the Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus, Morlun, Venom and Carnage, the Lizard, Kingpin, and Kraven the Hunter)! Man did I love Kaine's SCARLET SPIDER series! Why did it have to be canceled after 25 issues?!

[@Naruto85RasenShurike]

Eamonn Deane I don't really have an opinion on Spider-Man 2099 as I've never actually read his book. All I've read with him was his debut in Earth 616 during the SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN series, which I liked, and I've played as him in the SPIDER-MAN: SHATTERED DIMENSIONS video game. All I really know about Miguel O'Hara is that he worked for the evil corporation Alchemex before he adopted the mantle of Spidey to rebel against them. Outside of that one comic and video game, I don't know all that much about him (though I might read his first appearances in the future as I've seen a copy of his book in my library).

[@Naruto85RasenShurike]

Eamonn Deane While I'm thinking about it, have you read X-MEN: AGE OF APOCALYPSE? I got the entire series for Christmas last year as I want to prepare myself for X-MEN: APOCALYPSE, and I am absolutely loving it! Even though I haven't read the entire event yet, what I have read so far has been enough for AOA to earn a spot among my top 5 favorite X-Men comics of all-time. Currently my top 10 favorite X-Men comics would be: 1: X-Men: Kitty Pryde and Wolverine (Six-Issue limited series) 2: Joss Whedon's run on Astonishing X-Men (particularly the TORN and UNSTOPPABLE arcs) 3: X-Men: The Dark Phoenix Saga 4: X-Men: Age of Apocalypse 5: X-Men: Days of Future Past 6: Jason Aaron's run on Wolverine and the X-Men 7: Wolverine: Get Mystique 8: X-Men: Legion Quest (acts as a prologue for the events of AGE OF APOCALYPSE) 9: X-Men: The Brood Saga 10: Avengers Vs. X-Men What would your favorite X-Men comics be?

[@Naruto85RasenShurike]

Eamonn Deane It still among my favorites, but I just enjoyed those ones more. I really loved Grant Morrison's run, but there were some parts of it that I felt were a little confusing so that's why its not higher. That being said, Cassandra Nova ranks high among my favorite X-Men villains! Speaking of Scott Lobdell, AGE OF APOCALYPSE is the one story of his that I've heard has received critical acclaim (though that may be mainly due to it being a collaboration with other writers like Fabian Niecieza). Then again, I haven't read that many of Lobdell's works, so I don't really have an official opinion on him like you do. Also. one X-Men comic I'm considering reading after I finish AOA is the infamous ONSLAUGHT event. I've heard that one has received a lot of negative criticism, and I'm genuinely curious as to why? Outside of it being responsible for creating the HEROES REBORN universe and the infamous Rob Liefeld Captain America drawing, I honestly don't see where all the hate is coming from with that story. To me, the idea of the X-Men fighting a malevolent entity created from the darker side of Xavier's psyche sounds incredibly bada** and has a ton of potential...

[@RKStrikerJK5]

I gotta say, Linkara, DAMNED fine storytelling on your part. Happy sixth anniversary now and forever!

[@MrZerothejedi]

these arcs are probably the most entertaining thing Ive found in a while

[@Arsio12]

I can't remember what was the first video of yours I watched, but this was the first video with your story stuff that I watched and got me intrigued... So much so I started this marathon. Pretty cool to see the events leading up to this point, and the story stuff I know from your more recent videos. Atop The Fourth Wall: come for the bad comics, stay for the well-put-together and well-acted story.

[@mhelvens]

This episode of the storyline was great! The part I especially liked (for some reason) was Lani mentioning the government's protocols for discovering android duplicates. :-) A nifty bit of world-building!

[@PolarPhantom]

This was a really satisfying ending I feel and it's nice to have a refresher on some stuff I forgot before The Sleepwalker gets going. And this comic was total garbage. EDIT: Also, I totally thought Lewis with the camera and script was the real world until I read the Ruminations. Only now am I entertaining the idea that it was Linkara the character working on a video, since of course he would. Now I'm not sure if it is the real world or not. Since Lewis cited it, he may saying "nah", but that might be a red herring. And of course, I thought it was the real world cause that's what Doug did with the Plot Hole. So it stands to reason, right? Totally forgot about Vyce, 90s Kid and the plan at the end there.

[@Rosgakori]

And no one ever brings up Spider-man hitting MJ but everybody still calls Ant-Man wifebeater. Comics are fickle.

[@blaineedwards2668]

Atte Timonen and Mr. Fantastic, don't forget when he did the same thing

[@Rosgakori]

That too.

[@littlekuribohimposte]

Reed Richards is a dick, but for different reasons.

[@nvfury13]

Atte Timonen Well, Beast never visited to find MJ beaten half to death by Peter....so yeah Pym still wins shithead wife beater award.

[@Gambit771]

And how Sue storm did the same thing or Lois Lane or any other female hitting their spouses in comics

[@Theokal3]

Regarding the spider-sense thing, I think the idea is that clones have a Spider-sense too, and as such they know how it works - meaning they know how to get around it. Apparently that's the same way Venom can go around it.

[@tenkaiechi01]

Spiders are covered in tiny hairs called trichobothria which grant them their own version of the Spidey-Sense. These hairs,(just like Spider-Man's hair(s), detect micro shifts and vibrations in the environment. Kaine being of similar skill(powers) can possibly use this to his advantage by attacking when this skill is more likely to be lessened either by environment or other factors. Kaine would know this weakness(if it does exist) and would definitely exploit it.

[@Theokal3]

@@tenkaiechi01 Very interesting interpretation^^

[@howieg2019]

i salute you, you the first person that i ever heard talk about Judas Traveller, i used to bring him up to people that run comic book shops and they didn't know what i was talking about, i had became a fan of his when he made the Carnage symbiote back away from Cletus Kassidy without no real effort, which blew my mind at that time, and made me think that he would become a regular in the Marvel Universe.

[@RaphBlade7]

DA Judas Traveler: •Mysterious Monologue just to sound Mysterious• Ace Attorney Linkara: Objection! •Explains why Judas Traveler's monologue is pointless & stupid•

[@BigBoct]

Coming back to this part of the storyline after having seen where it goes... I love the foreshadowing.

[@AtrocityEquine01]

The King of Worms seeing The Entity wasn't just creepy as an implied memory, it was The Entity inside of Linkara.

[@davidspring4003]

SPOILERS!

[@legoarkhamiteproductions4869]

16:38 “This is starting to sound like a bad comic book plot!” This thing had a plot? Y’know, I like the idea of Spider-Man’s villains putting him on trial, but it should make some semblance of sense. Carnage as prosecutor? Judas Traveler as judge? And on the jury there are barely any recognizable Spidy villains, aside from Chameleon and maybe Shriek (I don’t know anything about that character, so I can’t comment). How about Mysterio, or Shocker, or Rhino, or anyone else? Why not Venom as the prosecutor, since both Brock and the symbiote hate Peter, and they’re more controlable and reasonable than Carnage. And since this is the CLONE Saga, why not have the Jackal as the judge? (Was he back by this point? It’s hard to keep track of this saga.) He’s crazy enough to set up this whole trial scenario, and he’d be able to mentally torture Peter and Ben due to the clone thing, way better then Caine. I could probably write a better version of this story, and I’m not even a die-hard fan of Spider-Man.

[@nekusakura6748]

At this point Venom in the early stages of being an Anti Hero.... for reasons...

[@DeathGodRiku]

Gotta say, it was really nice of the King of Worms to set up cameras in that holding room so you could film the review.

[@namegoeshere5220]

...seriously, why isn't it Matt Murdock or She-Hulk? Not like Peter doesn't know them personally, or at least through other people. It would be a great cameo and at least make this not a farce.

[@jfdrac]

Simple....if they used any half way decent lawyer...They would not have needed Kaine as they would have made this DA look like a smalltown Pizza Lawyer

[@skyslasher2297]

Apparently Matt was pretending to be dead at the time and I don’t think Spidey revealed his identity to the larger superhero community yet

[@spiderdoctor2269]

28:39 to be fair, said law student probably wasn't learning much from such a quick trial, and was probably hoping a superhero battle would break out in the courtroom regardless of what happened in it

[@Macrochenia]

I'm convinced that Judas Traveler got his name because the writer was listening to radio when a Judas Priest song was followed by a Blues Traveler song. I don't care what anyone says, that is my headcanon and I'm sticking to it.

[@brunomidrash]

Would that make Scrier the "Blues Priest"?

[@thegamer9302]

your special effects really got good linkara nice job =3

[@amberprice9003]

Suprisingly, Doctor Traveller came back as an X-Men villain

[@jakirakumahata5701]

My guess is Traveler got his doctorate the same way as Doctor Doom

[@skyslasher2297]

He gave it to himself after taking over a country?

[@Pyro627]

I really love the music for the storyline parts of this episode.

[@mickeyd343]

Started from the beginning and now I have caught up to where I started almost five years ago today. Looking back now, this is still a fun and funny series.

[@camerongrow6426]

This was my first Linkara review I ever saw and its still confusing but really fun.

[@user-wx4sn6ve8y]

Something inside Linkara scared the King of Worms to death. And the last thing he saw was 90s Kids as the Entity. Could it still be inside Linkara?

[@nigel_saxon]

I loved the king of worms plotline linkara looking forward to the next one

[@shadowspider9]

To be fair Peter is directly or indirectly responsible for some of his most famous villains. The ones that come to mind are Venom, Carnage, both Green Goblins, The Hobgoblin, Scorpion, and The Jackal.

[@ChigoIEbere]

shadowspider9 And hydroman

[@Forever_Muffin]

I've just decided that watching this right before going to sleep was a terrible idea... and that is so awesome xD

[@lordofuzkulak8308]

20:19 - many years late, but maybe you should send this comic to Legal Eagle to get him to eviscerate the courtroom antics. 😉

[@michaelrhett4958]

After seeing the vision: welp, I’m not sleeping tonight. Also I remember watching this years ago I remember certain bits of it with the beginning bit with the iron masks and ending part with the vision and the Linksano discovering the king of worms’ biology.

[@Crimsonhighlander]

Lol, ah man... I do enjoy Linkara's adventures. Happy 6th, mate. Also, loved the movie.

[@kacinema96]

17:48 He grows giant sized? Dang it! If only Spider-Man had a Megazord!😜

[@skyslasher2297]

Sorry but the only one was taken by one of the Japanese Spider-Men

[@GOODYGOODGOOD789]

2:18 And fun fact Kaine was actually Daredevil in Earth-982 (the universe where Peter and MJ's baby Mayday Parker doesn't die and she becomes Spider-Girl), okay he was called dark Daredevil. However, he still became Daredevil since Daredevil died in Earth-982. Speaking of Daredevil where is Matt Murdock during all of these shenanigans, pretty much every other time in Earth-616 and outside it he represented Peter Parker whenever he needed a lawyer and sometimes it was for things that were less serious than this, and at this point, they have revealed each other's secret identities to each other why on earth wouldn't be try and help one of his best friends (and someone who's best friend is him as in Matt Murdock because this is after Harry Osborn is dead so Peter Parker/Spider-Man really only has one best friend) out of the death penalty, admittedly it's not Peter Parker but Matt Murdock doesn't know that, and even if he did a clone of Peter's would also be enough to help him. From what I know Matt Murdock agreed to help Spider-Man when he sued J. Jonah Jameson for libel, much less when he's getting sued for something that can result in his death. Joking aside the lawyering you can do for yourself if you poison the Kolto supply on Manaan in KOTOR is genius compared to this, and keep in mind all of that is just extorting the judges. 9:13 The murders happening in Salt Lake City are probably why Peter could be put to death because even when this issue was released New York didn't have the death penalty but Utah still does. 19:14 That happened two years ago why are they even bringing it up right now, especially since this murder didn't happen two years ago. 21:05 You know in the Batman The Animated Series episode that this comic ripped off the persecution (Two-Face the previous district attorney) and defense (the current district attorney) made sense because they both had legal experience... if only this comic could easily do the same with a certain blind lawyer who is also a superhero and who has known Peter's secret identity for at least years now... wait (and even if he did represent Peter here She-Hulk could represent Ren Reilly on earth so even if they did do this it makes so sense why this random guy is Ben Reilly's lawyer). They knew each other's identities before Peter and MJ were married and according to this comic Kraven's Last Hunt took place two years before this comic, so they have known each other's secret identities for at least two years. I'd go so far as to say it would make no sense for Daredevil not to be here ever since the very first issue where they met (Amazing Spider-Man #16), but at this point, they have worked together countless times and known each other for years, and Matt Murdock knows that Spider-Man is important in the fight against crime so why isn't he here. Then again, I think it might be best for his character that he's not here since if he was in this comic he would be a horrible lawyer and I don't like the idea of Matt Murdock being written as a horrible lawyer (whether intentionally or otherwise), for the simple reason of he's a good lawyer. On an unrelated note this reminds me of my only issue with The Wedding (where Peter and Mary Jane marry) I am confused as to why Matt Murdock is here especially since again Peter and Matt have known each other for years and even though when this comic came out they didn't know each other's secret identities for that long they still are among the few people who know each other's secret identities, admittedly Peter didn't reveal his intentionally but Matt Murdock did so I think he should be at Peter's wedding, it is a little nitpicky but I just wanted to bring it up especially since even Wikipedia is confused on this. 28:26 It's impossible to change fingerprints but that's the least of this comics issues. 33:13 Easily a Top contender for most out-of-character moment in all of Peter Parker and Spider-Man history. To Quote ISB Supervisor Blevin "It took the combined ingredients of idiocy, ineptitude, and total disengagement for this farce to have reached the full apex of incredulous disaster."

[@Cdr2002]

Carolyn Trainer Dock Ock DID actually come back… just to have her design altered to look nearly identical to the Olivia Octavius Dock Ock seen in Into the SpiderVerse, because it was that character, and not her own attributes, that motivated Marvel to bring her back. On the fun side, she’s joined a new all-women Sinister Syndicate that unites a handful of members of the Spider-Men’s rogues galleries (most notably Francine Fry Electro and Janice Lincoln Beetle) into an enjoyable little team

[@nagitokomaeda2792]

Geez, I sure missed a lot of story after the To Boldly Flee arc

[@AT4W]

Yeah, just a few things have happened. XD There are storyline compilation videos if that helps. =)

[@kkentertainment5279]

we finally got answers... most a lot of saw coming but still awesome

[@eldorondable]

this theme song is so effin' awesome!

[@TevyaSmolka]

happy 6th Anniversary again man :)