War Thunder's Tank Destroyer Problem

[@Spookston]

Yea I know I should be playing a TD, I'm just trying to grind China right now

[@GraytheKnight]

+50 social credit

[@elmarcus300]

Social Credit +300!

[@markusreed5447]

Hmm yes the Waffenträger has no Armor you say, I say I can bounce/absorb about 2~3 T35-85 Shoots and not die but fuck HE/Hesh/Arty and ALL the fucking Planes

[@GoldRaven-oe4by]

You mean grind a bunch of other countries tanks

[@osmiisch]

@@GoldRaven-oe4by Shhhhhhhhhhh

[@builder396]

I approve of the SP reduction for AT-gun-on-tracks type TDs. It would give people a new last-resort vehicle other than AAs, which could be spawned when spawn points are low. It would also be quite fitting, since the historical point of these vehicles is to put a gun onto a chassis at minimal cost and thus have an easily mass-produced mobile AT gun with capabilities significantly below that of a tank or heavy TD.

[@adrewadrew5860]

On lower br TD like marder or M3 gmc can by only gun on your br that can take out Heavy tanks like KV or B1 from the front / save distance. If the where similar to SPAA in term of resp points that would be great.

[@slimrummy4616]

Well dun 👏, I agree

[@Genktarov]

I also like this because, like AAA, they’re usually vehicles which were designed to destroy bunkers or infantry concentrations (especially some of the direct-fire artillery guns or that Swedish T1), not tanks. Having them in game as last-ditch vehicles pressed into service makes sense.

[@cnlbenmc]

I just read that entire comment with the voice of Misaka 10031 in my head thanks to that pfp, last thing I expected when opening up a Spook video.

[@mirageraven1565]

@@adrewadrew5860 To the idea of being similar to AA, I think beside having low spawn point requirement, making their spawn point not raising along with other vehicle spawn would also be good.

[@adamsheppard7959]

I actually managed to unlock the SU-100 a few days ago and I was surprised by how much I like it. This was probably due to its 100mm main gun. The only issue is that the T-44-100 exists, which is essentially the same thing but with a rotating turret.

[@steveshumate1983]

The real problem for the su100 is that the su100p is at the same br. Partial turret, faster reload, more mobile.

[@brianvieane3907]

@@steveshumate1983 the su100-p is open top so revenge thunder is a thing.

[@ryantcm187]

@@brianvieane3907 also the fact that partial turret is so partial that anything with a machinegun is basically a death sentence anyways

[@rhystaylor851]

I prefer the 100p over the 100, despite revenge thunder. The mobility makes it a lot more fun to play and the crew layout makes it weirdly survivable

[@aexandereung5686]

@@brianvieane3907 Partial turret sure makes machine guns a problem, but also gives a wider firing arc than the casemate SU-100. Besides, nothing's stopping planes from using rockets or bombs if they really want revenge

[@socialjihad5724]

I think superior rangefinding abilities would be a good option to make TDs more competitive. Straight up better/faster rangefinding could be a nice feature and/or make it so while in a TD, you get a readout of the approximate range of targets scouted by friendly light tanks

[@naamadossantossilva4736]

This should only be given to artillery crewed or open topped TDs.

[@eosss9864]

Sounds interesting, it would make them a superior option over there medium or heavy counterparts for long range engagements.

[@phobosatthegatesofe3m158]

It would help sometimes but, really alot of players already know how to range from experience.

[@clevernamegotban1752]

@@eosss9864 this would be a good way to buff the spgs that are long range snipers like the archer, Nashorn, sturer etc

[@noobium5333]

@@clevernamegotban1752 does the breda 501 really need a buff tho?

[@hyperdimensionbliss]

When armour isn't a factor in 99% of tank engagements, a class specifically based on dealing with heavy armour isn't special. It's the same reason TDs stopped being a thing after WW2.

[@groundmasterc]

I mean this isn't entirely accurate, Post-WW2 there are still a number of tank destroyers/assault guns like the ASU-57, G-13, AMX CDC & CDA, Kanonenjagdpanzer, Sprut, M56 Scorpion, Centauro, Type 16 etc

[@WaluigiIV]

The TD evolved into the dedicated ATGM carrier.

[@biscuit4705]

not exactly one of the main reason i think is just there isn't much of a point in making TDs anymore since the gun performance between a normal tank and a TD became increasing similar so there just isn't much of a point in them

[@aexandereung5686]

​@@biscuit4705 They just dont live up to tank destroyer name anymore, but mobile gun platforms which carry tank guns with the weight of an IFV.

[@easternspy1739]

Laughts in object 120

[@dreamcrusher112]

A casemate tank is designed to be cheaper than its turreted counterpart - really useful in real life but no way to model that advantage in game, other than spawn costs/repair costs

[@hdog9046]

Maybe a free backup each match so 2 can be spawned per match?

[@Factao]

@@hdog9046 please, nobody want to deal with twice as many t95

[@Red14998]

@@Factao simple, just class it to a heavy tank. After all, it's called a super heavy at Fort Benning.

[@hdog9046]

@@Factao Those are a completely different beast, they were purpose-built, and it wasn't made to be cheaper than normal tanks. I'm thinking more about TDs that have neither armor nor speed, like the M10 or the StuGs.

[@HansGurke44]

I think spawn cost is a great way to model it in game

[@ezj2820]

I love TDs everything from the M36 to the SU100p. I feel like every TD has their own playstyle, like rushing in an ISU152, or Sniping in an Achilles, or flanking in a JPZ 4-5

[@Lewd-Tenant_Isan]

Ahh yes, another fellow JPZ 4-5 enjoyer, I love that things speed and Canon, not to mention the 16x zoom sight which makes sniping with it a breeze.

[@ezj2820]

@@Lewd-Tenant_Isan you might like the SU100p then, typical Russian gun handling and zoom but it's fast spaded, 1 shots anything, and extremely survivalable against aphe, ap, apds, etc

[@Swarmie]

I love to take the nashorn close quarters. For some reason i do really well with it there. And its super fun

[@jPlanerv2]

@@ezj2820 Su100p is my fav tank in game and my guilty pleasure, when i get fucked in top tier i just hop in to my good oll su100p and abuse some tigers 2 hehe

[@ezj2820]

@@Swarmie the Nashorn is good too, good one shot capabilities

[@CarryPotter007]

Imagine Sturmpanzer 2 getting arty support, as if itself is not enough arty support already

[@Appletank8]

Sturmpanzer summons 5 more Sturmpnzer beside it, who fire one shot in roughly the same direction

[@talandar5773]

V I B E C H E C K

[@mareksoucek4514]

But hellcat having it is OK i guess...

[@0Ploxx]

@@mareksoucek4514 cry about it If you were good at the game (or have decent eyesight) you wouldn’t be feeding my CAS spawn points

[@areallyboredwriter]

@@Appletank8 *Summons Panzer*

[@FelixTheory]

The Pak Puma has the scouting ability even tho it is still marked as a TD in game, which makes my head turn on why the M18 is a light tank.

[@Pulmonox]

I honestly think that the 'light tank' designation given out to the M-18s was just used as an excuse to give more nations a 'light tank' classified vehicle at that position in the tech tree, since almost NO nation has a light tank in the 3.7-5.7 BR range, exceptions being the P.T. 76 and the AMX-13, and since several nations use the M-18 it seemed like the most appropriate candidate for 'light tank filler'.

[@0Ploxx]

@@Pulmonox reminder that the Germans did not deserve the M41 let alone more vehicles to make their already broken lineups into Jesus

[@CrazyDutchguys]

@@0Ploxx Germany didnt have a non-premium light tank at that BR. So a solution was to give them the M41.

[@scout4996]

@@0Ploxx what Dutch said, plus it's a different m41, it doesn't have solid shot but heat instead

[@0Ploxx]

@@scout4996 belongs at 6.7

[@MrJoe99998]

Unpopular opinion: I really like playing SPG's, especially at lower tiers. They force you to play differently from tanks due to them only being able to engage enemy's to the front, and their (often) low silhouetes make them harder to hit. Also the 'no armour best armour' is still very powefull, as often shots do kill a single crew without doing much further damage (AP-HE often does not active due to the little armour, and often the HE is only the second shot), while the SPG's shots almost always kill tanks in a single shot due to the high pen often paired with AP-HE. Yes they might not be as good as tanks, and you might be able to play better with tanks using the same playstyle, but its much more satisfying to get a kill with an SPG in my opinion.

[@Pellagrah]

TD's + SPG's require a different playstyle than tanks. More about good positioning, patience, and knowing how to pick off the enemy from a distance without attracting attention to yourself. Tanking rewards situational awareness (keeping track of multiple enemies simultaneously), aggressive flanking, and knowing how to maneuver around the battlefield without exposing yourself to enemy fire. Main issue with TD's IMO is that you can easily play a tank like a TD, but you'd be insane to play a TD like a tank. I get sniped by medium + heavy tanks more than I do by actual tank destroyers.

[@TitaniusAnglesmith]

Fr. The Pvkv m/42 (og version) is actually pretty capable as a tank. Good mobilitet, speed, great depression, and the armour is better than one might think so there are alot of troll shots you can survive.

[@gigachad8425]

Spgs are just weaker version of medium/heavy tanks

[@the8bitclicker_193]

I tried playing the flak 88 in town Poland. Got 8 kills before I died to having my entire crew killed, then entered the town again with a Pz IV to get three more. No planes, just tanks. You can imagine the amount of times people shoot the crew only to be killed seconds later. No armor really is best armor and, if you know how to play, you can really survive dangerous close quarters situations in city maps that you survive despite being shot several times and having only 2 - 3 of your crew killed.

[@madeingermany9445]

I want more artillery tanks in the game. More modern than the Japanese type 75 spg would be cool. And more WW2 arty too

[@scout4996]

SPGs are usually relegated to sniping, Germany being the prime example of it. An idea I had was for them to have the range displayed on any spotted tank, either by scouting or hit (or just scouting) It would only update with every tick of the chevron, and it could be as accurate as rangefinding (as in, depending on skills, with a margin of error, and up to a certain distance) That way it wouldn't be super overpower at lower tiers, and by endgame there's laser rangefinders anyways

[@daslynnter9841]

idk about you but i love brawling in stugs and hetzers. i honestly don't understand this comment section and video, SPGs are OP in my experience, their weakspots are smaller, and gun is harder to hit, while being fast and survivable.

[@caralho5237]

Bad idea it would make them OP, especially on some broken maps where once you get to a certain position the enemy cant break through

[@scout4996]

@@daslynnter9841 well the stug and hetzer aren't spgs, they're tank destroyers. Here I was mostly talking about spgs with low armor, like the dicker max, nashorn and m10

[@seemslegit6203]

@Daslynnter its not really about how good they are, but how popular and functional, which they currently arent. In pretty much every lineup, there are better options than tank destoyers and SPGs

[@jarlathquinn2628]

@@daslynnter9841 I hate stugs as the KV1(L11) can’t seem to be able pen it from the front them I’m just blown up

[@pinkbunchan9258]

Honestly, I think ai pillboxes and “bombing targets” would be best for the SPG and SPH vehicles. It would also allow for things like the priest to be added with an actual function in game.

[@rogue9898]

While that would be cool, it would require a large amount of work on Gajin’s part (they’d pretty much have to make a new game mode or rework existing ones), so that’s probably not gonna happen.

[@pinkbunchan9258]

@@rogue9898 absolutely. But if they decided to introduce more sph vehicles, I could see it as an update

[@pinkbunchan9258]

@@jessegd6306 I mean, that’s part of it, yeah. It’d make ground rb a bit more like air rb. Where fighters/tanks certainly can strike ground targets, but attackers/howitzers are designed for that and are more capable of and dedicated to that task.

[@Sapoman2211]

@@jessegd6306 yeah, but a concrete bunker with an AT gun is probably best dealt with by something other than a 75mm HE shell. One might want to bring up a 105, or 122. This wouldn't even really require much change to the game - design a couple bunkers and place them around the map. They'd be no different from having a couple AI tanks, except they're tough and don't move.

[@peterscasny2803]

KV-2 could profit off of that too!

[@felipesuzuki7867]

TDs also suffer from a RP and SL problem. WT benefits and rewards very agressive and offensive gameplay (capturing points gives you RP and SL, for example), while defensive gameplay doesnt offer much. This, naturaly, puts TD in a point of disavantage when we talk about grinding and spading vehicles.

[@rocambolehibrido6132]

Fr we need a way to get rewarded if you cover your allies

[@LaVaZ000]

"War Thunder's Light Tank Problem" "War Thunder's Destroyer Problem" "War Thunder's Game Problem"

[@spicketspaghet7773]

There's a big issue if EVERY SINGLE CLASS is "impossible to balance"

[@raffaeleperri6110]

GAJIN problem

[@Sky_EggYT]

War thunders_____ problem will just turn into: “ war thunder is the problem”

[@colers2366]

Proposal; vastly lower upgrade cost, purchase cost, deployment cost and increase resource gain for them. Essentially, we accept they are shit but give them a tactical benefit in the shape of making them cheap and time-efficient grinds that reward you for using them. Proposal 2: Give them better scopes and remove the Adjustment of Fire upgrade, give them instead basically perfect accuracy from the get go. They all, from the start, get rangefinders. Turn them into snipers relying on the median accuracy of other tanks to work. Proposal 3: Rapid fire; As long as the tank hasn't moved or altered its aim in a significant way, they gain a considerable gain in their rate of fire. This benefit only works if the second loader is still alive. They become true glass cannons, capable of sequentially shelling a position with devestating shots while giving minimal time for their allies to retaliate. For already incredibly fast shooters, this allows them to also defend themselves against fliers (which would fit given, you know, half of these are AAA). where the fortress tanks expect to hold the line by surviving for long enough for the next shot, these will attempt simply lay waste to enemies so quick they don't have time to fire back.

[@zrspangle]

2 and 3 would only really work in arcade

[@penzorphallos3199]

The whole idea of most casemate tds is to use mass produced/obsolete tank chassis and slap a bigger gun + more armor (sometimes) on it, without the complexity of a turret. So it would make sense for them to have lower sp costs. Casemate by design have flaws and most can be penned or outmaneuvered easily at their br... They could use a boost.

[@novemberrose8563]

Soon we will see the dicker max at reserve since it now over pens half its targets and is less effective the lower br it gets past 3.3

[@humzaakhtar9208]

What? Last time I played it it was 4.3, and did pretty well there? How is it 3.3? Same issue with sturer Emil, but that gets worse as it gets lower

[@novemberrose8563]

@@humzaakhtar9208 its 4.0 right now i believe

[@ollydavis9346]

@@humzaakhtar9208 It's not 3.3 yet but at this rate it might be. Tiger syndrome is everywhere at low-mid tier Germany.

[@hamaru7642]

Yes, it's so dumb. The whole point of TDs is to take out enemy tanks, especially heavy tanks, but now most TDs are overkill at their BR.

[@darthioan]

Jagdtiger armor is thick, and completely useless since almost everything it faces can penetrate it.

[@wolfking164]

On the sides yes. But everything at 6.7 can't frontally pen the Jagdtiger. Even above it, heatfs doesn't always go through

[@shrayesraman5192]

Except Russians don't get a shell that can frontal until 8.3. Bmp missle maybe tho

[@abooper960]

@@wolfking164 6.7 is not a tier you can actually really play as a German player with any sort of reliability. With most 6.7 games you will mostly be playing uptiers at 7.7 with some of 7.3 and a sprinkle of 7.0 (and most tanks here will laugh at your armour). If you get really lucky you might get a 6.3 game every 20 games or so but you’ll generally just get cas spammed negating your armour anyways so there’s no point in keeping your fingers crossed. Oh and just if you were wondering I have something like 500 hours playing specifically at 6.7 and I can’t recall ever getting a full down tier (might have forgotten but point is: extremely rare).

[@nahuelleandroarroyo]

@@abooper960 nonsense, I stopped using a US 5.7 lineup because uptiers. 6.7 germany is fine, we mostly remember the uptiers rather than when we seal club. I can recall days of having like 5 full uptiers on a row using a easy8 and sometimes seal clubing german 6.x stuff, you can silence jagdpanthers and the likes with smoke, some players even reposition after being obscured for some seconds

[@liamchristensen1086]

@@wolfking164 Thats the point of the jadgtiger to be strong in the front against conventional shells.

[@danielpimienta7388]

One of my favorite vehicles the STUG III G is probably a big exception to this rule. I find it an absolute hidden gem in the German Tech Tree. 4.0 for 80mm of front armor and 15-20 mm of track. Plus a 75mm gun that can one shot T-34's (sometimes).

[@griggs8345]

As a Russian Main I will say I don't like the Stug III G, since with add-on armor we can't kill it from the front with the regular 76 unless we use APCR. The only way I fight it is to angle, hope it doesn't shoot for turret, then when it shoots, break it's barrel (and maybe tracks) and flank. I have to treat it like a slightly less armored Jagd IV/70.

[@СергійКузніченко]

Oh boy, do i have a cool vehicle for you then... The STUH 42: has a cool cannon with good pen and no damage (shoot at the turret crew specifically, then finish the tank off) with the same armor as a 4.0 tank AT 2.7! It legit feels like playing a heavy sometimes: i once went on a 12 kills rampage with it! It is not really effective as a sniper, but oh boy if it ever hurts at close range, where panicked tanks fire at you and cannot pen you (in arcade, you just have to click on green circles, and hope your 2.7 enemy is not a god at the game and will not immediately dome you) Its downsides are a slow reload, that you can usually manage, its armor placement (don't you hate it when you get oneshot with random BS occuring on your fancy new STUG G? Well, it never went away), and the fact that you can only use it for its full grinding potential for so long (tier 2 not poggers). It is at the line up with puma and the various pz3 variants, and it usually is fun to play! 8/10 would get ammoracked again!

[@MFM556]

I found the spaghetti machines were decent all around after a certain point. After you get one that has a roof they can be really decent at playing a slow defensive game or a sneaky game. I was parked out in a field with lots of shrubs and some small trees. The things are so short i could hide in coolies and small ground depressions really easy and pull some trap door spider tactics off really easy. I advanced towards the enemy spawn so i could be a total prick and snipe them off after they brake cover and tried to make their way to the nearest ridge or hill. It was glorious lol

[@dlistmemer591]

I’ll be honest, Italian TD are some of the most fun vehicles I have played with

[@radtrainlord8126]

@@dlistmemer591 breda boys unite

[@MFM556]

"A bippity boo spagheticcini a walnuts anda da cream." - Big chin Benny boi

[@anacleos345]

ASU-57, Waffentrager, T95, Jagdtiger and Jagdpanther are my favorite TD's no doubt

[@СергійКузніченко]

*stealthy bush happiness noises*

[@rocambolehibrido6132]

Object 775 is my favourite only because of the terraforming strat

[@meatball.9710]

I main the Italian 90/53 (and open-top spg) a lot and I quite like it but it suffers alot when everything can kill it. artillery would definitely help spgs a lot and an sp reduction would make the class more valuable to the player. I think light tds should get spotting and spgs should get arty. It would be kind of weird tho to see a big Breda as a spotting vehicle.

[@A407RAC]

Spooks the real "Destroyer" in War Thunder is you my man

[@tomppeli.]

I may be nitpicking here, but is grammar a too far-fetched a request to ask for?

[@A407RAC]

@@tomppeli. For a Finn? Yaaa :P Translation: "Spooks, the real 'Destroyer' in War Thunder is you, my man

[@tomppeli.]

@@A407RAC Oh, right. You were just missing punctuation there, my man

[@A407RAC]

@@tomppeli. No problems my friend, you're a scholar and a gentleman my Scandinavian friend

[@mateuszjedut2406]

Talks about tank destroyers Plays heavy tank

[@schaab7203]

Its just gameplay

[@mateuszjedut2406]

@@schaab7203 yeah but don't you think a thing he speaks about and the thing we see should match up?

[@thatpersoninthecomments8613]

@@mateuszjedut2406 check spookston’s comment dum dum

[@CarryPotter007]

@@mateuszjedut2406 he is saying the TDs are either op or weak why would he wanna do TD gameplay for this video? He can make seperate videos with "The Tank Is Balanced" as the title and gameplay

[@schaab7203]

@@mateuszjedut2406 hes talking about td, not a vehicle so he doesnt need to show us, and hes griding china

[@berniegran4785]

tank destroyers should have a new skill. "Call scout plane" you chose a area in the map and a AI scout plane with no guns fly to that area and keeps scouting all the vehicles that enter that area for a limited time. it will not replace scouting of light tanks because SPAA and player planes can shoot the AI scout plane easily, it will also give more things for planes and SPAAs to shoot during battles , and will make shooting a long ranges easier for the noobs in SPGs since the targets will be scouted and will add a uniqueness role to the class

[@BirdiesGoCherp]

I remember back when the jagdpanther was virtually impenetrable when hull down. That's when I bought the premium one.

[@socialist_elmo]

wdym hull down bro??? everypart of the tank is a hull

[@BirdiesGoCherp]

@@socialist_elmo the lower third of the tank being hidden and on a bit of an incline.

[@z3r0_35]

I like your ideas, but I'd alter this a little bit. "Heavy TDs" I'd call "Assault Guns", since that's really what they were, direct-fire self-propelled artillery intended to be the tip of the spear, and engage fortifications first and enemy armor second (German ones like the Jagdpanther and Jagdtiger being exceptions). Across the board, non-turreted TDs and assault guns should have lower spawn point costs than comparably-armed tanks, especially if a comparably-armed tank is within your lineup (and Gaijin does alter your spawn point costs for each vehicle based on your lineup already, so lighter and lower-BR vehicles are cheaper to spawn in with), because that was the main advantage of building them that way irl: they could be lighter and cheaper if they didn't have turrets.

[@MikeBison_]

The M36 is pretty quick though, I wouldn’t call it as unwieldy as the Emil or Waffle. The powered turret has an amazingly fast turn rate, making it perfect for snap shots

[@hubris6567]

I like the Italian one since it has a Sherman hull. I play it like an upgunned sherman with heatfs.

[@specialagentdustyponcho1065]

The unarmored SPG's could be given miniscule repair costs as a bonus and funnily fitting to their historical usage. Can't afford your heavy? Throw the gun on a truck and hide in a bush.

[@crazyadam9281]

The M36 Slugger is an example of TD that can be used as quasi-medium tank.

[@zafranorbian757]

Hell, I sometimes play it like a light tank, M36 is no hellcat but it comes very close.

[@UgandanAirForce]

I remember unlocking the IT-1, my first ATGM carrier, and it's been my favorite ever since because it has phat missile, good armor, good mobility, and the reload is acceptable.

[@HoneyBadgerVideos]

You forgot about being able to fire then on the move

[@SnakierElm62]

He Spookston I met you a couple hours ago lol on the Fields of Normandy map it was a pleasure meeting you

[@cowboykirby3185]

Just combine all of them into one hour long video called everything wrong with Warthunder

[@ahmadutyakapeanutusa6135]

the problem is that ww2 tanks with heavy armor are facing post-war tanks with modern weaponry just because of their thin armor, imo i would remove the (BR) and only let ranks decide matchmaking

[@kajetus0688]

I love how Dicker max and sturer emil are like: if you wont shoot APHE or any explosive shell at it you will have trouble killing it because its cannon breech is shell eater

[@JM_Traslo]

I'm just out here vibin' in my Tortoise waiting for Gaijin to give it its historical Sabot.

[@Arkenald]

The M18 was given Light tank status so they would have a slightly high Spawn Point Cost or so they could have Artillery, there are other Tank Destroyers with the spotting ability, and team repairing such as the ASU-57 and ASU-85 that are not classified in game as light tanks.

[@recluse5245]

I think a good buff to the “SPG’s” would be them being able to recover two crewmates and have a five second reduction to the repair times. So that if you don’t kill in SPG in one shot it’ll be ready for you long before you can finish it off.

[@tux8000]

I think SPGs could be helped with an update of how camouflage works in the game. As most SPGs which were used for AT service usually fired from concealed positions they could get camouflage nets as upgrades (which also automatically get adjusted according to the combat environment of the map). Or enforce "View from gunner sight" in RB. SPAAAs/SP3As could also **finally** get some practical timefuses which can be adjusted comprehensively by the player as well as being able to deploy for slightly better rate of fire.

[@smeb4086]

i have no issue with nashorn. Sure its light and not rlly fast but it instakills any and all tanks it meets at any range, with incredible scope. I love it

[@Frenchindochina]

I think the best buff spgs could get is a blanket reload speed decrease for open top tds. They are artillery guns at the end of the day, and even massive 120mm howitzers can fire 5 to 10 rounds per minute so the arbitrary time limits on fire rate is very detrimental to a class that only has 1 benefit; the crazy powerful gun

[@a.b.3455]

I don't want to propose this as a fix for the proposed problems but I do want to get some feedback on something I thought about. So here's my question: "Would you be fine, happy or mad if artillery strikes where completely removed from the game?" I know this almost a whole different can of worms but It would certainly help slow TDs with no armor.

[@apocalypse5228]

I use artillery alot, but rarely see results. It can sometimes kill light vehicles. I've been killed more by my teammates with it than i have killed people with it.

[@BenAnderson48]

The problem with most TDs is that they're so dependent on the map. The super heavies either need a big map or a small urban space like Normandy with long lines of sight and protected flanks. The fast bois also need large maps to be effective in the tank destroyer role (as base capture/get into CAS ASAP tanks they don't care about map). If you take something like the CA Lorraine (a really fun TD), you need a map like Maginot Line to really use it, as it has a place where you can go quickly, get line of sight, and lack of armor is compensated by range (can't hit on the first shot unless you know the range). However drop the Lorraine in Advance to the Rhine and you're having a bad day. Tanks like the M56 also are map dependent, because there's only so many places you can hide in an urban map. It's more fun to go into a random forest and take a lesson from the Vietnamese. TL;DR urban maps bad, Fulda all the time.

[@floatingcereal4874]

The T95 constantly getting uptiered to face nothing but HEAT, ATGMs, and even APFSDS. Completely negating its main feature.

[@computerexe-xe8il]

Just realized that some of these videos have subnautica music in the background. Nice!

[@justv7536]

I really enjoy playing TD's, to me it's not a better or worse way to play, it's just, different. It makes me think in ways I usually wouldn't and it can cause some patterns to form in your brain that affect how you play regular tanks, always fun to play and I'd recommend playing TD's you normally wouldn't just for the experience.

[@annousa689]

That is2 shot on the jumbo making a 90* angle was like gaijined

[@phoenixyo9987]

Im a big fan of the American TDS, M10 and M18 are my jam, and when I get the T99 and im gonna go ham with it. The downside personally I find is that any arty within half a mile is insta death. Sometimes its really crazy how distant you can be in a open top and die from a random bomb or arty strike.

[@buzdygan5488]

i have one solution to TDs, but only for self propelled guns. Give them range modificator for rewards that they get, so that hitting oponent from greater range gives more spawnpoints and more rewards to the players, also give them both spotting and artillery, so that they became sort of a sniper-support unit, that can deal with the heavies of oponents (i look at you, jumbo)

[@cesarst3720]

As a War Thunder member from the hispanic community, this kind of videos helps my listening abilities at the moment to play War Thunder Variety everywhere

[@tranques8075]

Exacto

[@darthimperious8661]

Could improve SPG’s by giving them better default camouflage instead of the waffentrager and Nashorn are tan colored and un armored

[@Darilon12]

You are dancing around the main problem in that there isn't in reality and hence shouldn't be in game a vehicle class called tank destroyer. It's not a type of vehicle but a function which can be fulfilled by a vehicle. A gun motor carriage (wheeled or tracked) can be a TD. A tank can be a TD. A Jagdpanzer ("Hunting Tank") can be a TD. Nearly every ground and some air vehicles in war thunder acts as a TD most of the time. Hell... even a bazooka team is a TD. So I totaly agree. Most americen TDs should be catogerized as GMCs. T25, T95, Jagdpanther and all the other heavy casemates should be in a seperate category. And so should be the SPGs. The german tech tree already has some seperation.

[@n147258noah]

...honestly, I think something that might be cool for SPGs would be a function to make them act more like a howitzer or artillery. Using binocular vision, the target is marked. The SPG slews its gun to a higher angle with an estimated range, and waits for the player to fire. It probably shouldn't do more than just help out on maps like Kursk, but using a reduced charge or high shot angle to allow for plunging fire might not be a terrible idea. This keeps the SPG more out of the line of fire, but they still need to be somewhat 'in' the fight to be able to hit things reliably. This also keeps it out of WoT territory, as the SPG still has to functionally be somewhat near the fight to fire correctly. Once the shell is out, the gun returns to the 'flat' shooting trajectory of before. With this, another plot needs to be set in the binos. Tank Commander and gunner both need high stats to let the round get somewhere near the target, and it could add a modification to allow a more accurate indirect fire setup. Preferably fairly cheap, overall, though. So long as the SPG was originally fairly accurate, the gunner and tank commander both have good stats, and the player's good at picking where to aim for with the binos, the fire should be fairly accurate, if slow. Plunging fire could probably also be indicated to the tank to a degree too though, like a whistling before first round hits.

[@mason6250]

Spookston what does "redundant" mean?

[@crabinasuit7646]

I think the another big problem with TDs that you didn't mention is THE RIDICULOUS REPAIR COST for some of the heavy bois (Ferdinand, t95 and such).

[@victordiaz7353]

What about for heavy TD's, instead of 2 fire extinguishers, give em 3?

[@sanguineaurora8765]

I have a proposal for Spg type TD's such as SU-85. Reduce their spawn cost, yes... And also give them 1 additional spawn. Like backup vehicle. IRL, those vehicles were made because they were much cheaper and easier to produce and they weren't expected to perform well, just to be a stopgap measure. By giving 1 backup vehicle to those Td's you can make those vehicles countermeasure or last solution pick-ups.

[@jackmuehlheuser5789]

I like your ideas at the end

[@bjrneirikstrkersen1021]

Looking at other posts on here, I made a list of things I thought were among the better ones plus some of my own ideas: *Lower cost - makes sense *Better ability to make use of scouting - be it a scout plane one can call in, planes can scout for TDs, some form of reticle to aim at with HE to lob shells at distant targets or longer lasting effect of scouting *Better accuracy/rangefinding - accuracy should be best in class for non-turreted TDs, rangefinding should maybe work in tandem with scouting, rangefinding should be faster. *Artillery /artillery buff - bit unsure about this one, but there are things to be done. Like some TDs basically ARE artillery pieces, and maybe could get an option to add their firepower to an artillery strike someone else has called in, where you get to shoot at a reticle to pump HE into an area (like I say above under scouting). Or maybe being able to call in an artillery strike on a position you've put a smoke round in? That said, there is one more thing to add.... *White Phosphorous rounds - which is only in the game as smoke rounds. But thats not all it can be used for - want to start a fire outside a vehicle and keep it scouted? WP rounds. Want to burn the crew of an open topped and/or lightly armoured vehicle? WP rounds. Want to keep a vehicle in the blind by hitting it with WP rounds to keep them blinded by smoke? Might be difficult due to game mechanics, and open to abuse.

[@jlb4895]

A good balancing factor would be making actually fun long range map (over a km long and even over 2km long for top tier) in order to get some real engagment/precision shooting. Also new gamemodes should be implemented (like escort, forteress attack, etc) to take advantage of specialized unit like bunker destroyers or scout edit : Forcing realistic loadouts would quite useful to balance tanks

[@ezj2820]

YES only plebs like karelia at top tier. Red desert is perfect size but needs more flat terrain imo. It's nice you can't see directly into spawns on that map

[@ghostlyfiregaming9641]

Another thing would be to have a generally more streamlined SL cost in AB and RB. While it would be a major overhaul, I feel like it would give reasons to play TDs. For example: all TD (except the heavy TD) would have a similar SL cost to buy, crew and repair cost as light tanks. Heavy TD would have a compatible one to medium tanks. This shouldn't apply to SB simply because it would add an extra layer of strategy.

[@literallyamonkey881]

I propose the idea that we make SPGs fly

[@simethigsomethingidfk]

At mid tiers the SPGs are actually pretty good. They genrally have faster reload time for how big their guns are, are relatively small targets when in position (since they can almost all easily expose just the gun) and are usually the only things with enough pen too deal with heavy tanks at any range. I have had alot of fun with the Waffentrager and the M56, its just they heavily depend on the map

[@serginebotcuenca6816]

It's funny to see how the is2 seems to be fully stabilized in this background gameplay

[@Germanempireaboolilel]

I was thinking about giving slow SPGs like the Sturer Emil the Scout Mechanik except those tanks also see the distance between them and scouted enemies.

[@penzorphallos3199]

+1 And the Sturer does have the rangefinder Y-looking goggles modelled on it

[@JustanotherMA]

>Give SPGs/Locomotive arty artillery Funny thought, but either an artillery piece gets to call artillery, or the artillery piece does what it's supposed to do: Indirect fire No, not WoT/AW/BF4-style Bird's eye view arty cam (because that's a major bruh moment) but rather Project: Reality/Squad-style angle calculation thingy Is this a good idea?

[@noraneko8926]

Make light tank destroyer like Hetzer or Jagdpanzer IV scouting ability, this way they can be more useful to set up an ambush. Lower spawn cost can also be implemented with tank destroyer, since they are cheaper to manufacture compared to normal tanks, or using older tank chassis.

[@onegoodfurboj]

Self propelled guns may be sorta useless, but the ones like the Strumpanzer and the Stormpjas can get very fun, as the 15cm round at a low velocity can ignore most hills and one-shot almost everything.

[@raptornotes8411]

Spookston: talking in depth about problems with the tank destroyers Me: looking at the game play in awe while I know I will never be that good

[@Logan-dk8of]

a good way to balance td's is not to have the same sp cost for all vehicles of the same type at a given be, which dividing td's into subcategories could solve. the main purpose for many light armored spg's like the dicker max, marder, and similar vehicles is to just have something cheap to make (no armor, no turret, open top) that has an anti tank gun, which doesn't make sense in war thunder if it costs the same to spawn in as essentially the same thing but with armor

[@littleredbull1140]

If we could have more relevant footage that would be great. Love your videos though!

[@BotherRed]

SPG: Reduced Spawn Points, Abilty to call in Arty, Abilty to repair others. That's what I would do personally, adding scouting it it would be nice, but I think by that point too many tanks would have the ability to scout targets. Having the ability to repair others would help a lot as 1: Most SPGs are played closer to the rear of the battle where other players are and 2: They are castmates 99% of the time so if they get flanked, there's little they can do to stop it unless they have MGs and the target attacking them is a light/open top tank. So turning them into more of a support class that really reilies on team play would IMO be a nice change.

[@BohemianCloud35]

3:53 what was that kill shot??? Did you overpressure a jumbo with aphe??

[@davidryanlawrencd]

I’d argue that the jadgpanther would be classified as a speed TD. It can keep up with medium tanks on an even surface

[@g.williams2047]

SPGs should be a separate category from TDs. Maybe a better scouting ability or an ability to reduce reload speeds when stopped?

[@zafranorbian757]

[@pauld6967]

Well Spookston, you might think you aren't good at game balancing suggestions but I say that you do better at it than I do. My preference is *always* to side with realism over game balance: thinking br should be tied to the components a vehicle has or lacks & wanting ALL ground vehicles to be able to call down artillery since all of them have radios. That is, after all, the rationale for markers showing up on the minimap: vehicle-to-vehicle comms. ;-)

[@lucusloc]

I want to see SPGs get long range targeting capabilities. Like the ability to target from the map and lob shells from that. Maybe give them some type of auto targeting on scouted targets to make sure players cannot abuse it to lob shells into enemy spawn 5 seconds after the game starts. Basically treat them as player-to-player artillery, (which is exactly what they are).

[@applejhon8308]

Low tier Italy is a pretty good example of how wonky the TD designation can be. The super early casemate tanks are all classified as tds but are basically just worse versions of the medium tanks. Then you have the doom truck which actually can kill things but is essentially a meme vehicle due to its size and incredibly slow reload. But suddenly out of nowhere they get the AS 42/47 which is great and even has artillery but is literally just the standard Italian tank gun on a car.

[@maxshell9465]

It's a good idea to seperate them as long as every nation has 1 of each category over rank 3. Because I can see some annoying challenges coming out of this

[@mixedchannelgameproduction901]

Maps impact these vehicles the most, the best buff they could give them is giving them maps with more breathing room.

[@garathminis5108]

This a thousand times. I enjoy playing the german flakk 88. It does really well on maps that are realistic. Maps one would actually use tanks on. Most maps however ,have these corridor like terrain for no reason, and look really unnatural. Why would anyone use a tank on a map like Vietnam?

[@foxfern9036]

hot take unrelated to this issue BUT. for the past year i have had this super crazy idea for war thunder, and i would LOVE to see sookston talk about it, so here i go. As we all know A LOT of war thunders new "ADS" show vary VARY modern vehicles like the M1A2 Abrams, but it also shows Vietnam era aircraft like the mig 21 and f4 phantom. One of the big problems that war thunder has right now is the amount of people who see these ads and think "WOW I CAN FLY A MIG21/ F4 PHANTOM!, I NEED THIS GAME NOW" so they go on to down load the game only to find out that they need to grind a whole bunch of air craft just to use what they said they could use. This issue is also with tanks, some of us don't want to use WWII era tank we want MODERN TANKS, but as we all know we have to grind for that, and a lot of the new players DON'T WANT TO GRIND THAT HARD. So i had a vary crazy but also cool idea, Do what naval did, have multiple tecc trees ranging from early ww2 ,late ww2 ,Korea/ Vietnam ,and modern same with the air craft tecc trees. (as for the tanks and vehicles that are at low battle rating that don't make sense like the R3 T20 we would have and excuse to FORCE the developers to but it WHERE IT BELONGED!) AGAIN THIS IS A HOT TAKE AND ONLY AN IDEA!!!

[@keelandoult1137]

Just my opinion warning ⚠️, I don’t see a problem with SPGs in fact I do great with the sturmemil and in fact I don’t have any problems with it at all I do is use it and other SPGs in there intended role thy were created for and sit right behind a group of friendly tanks at all times and all ways stay less then 50m to at lest 2 friendly tanks and only pock out to get rid of heavys that my team could struggle with in this role I almost never get hit and get 6-12 kills a game

[@OliverXRed]

For the TDs like the Stuer Emil, the real problem for them, is that they are too easy of a target for CAS. Think the majority of times I die in them, is is because of a fighter plane gunning my crew down from on top.

[@Abizinator]

And depending on the size of the map, a CAS rushing player can be flying in for a strike on you before you've even reached a decent firing position.

[@BritishMedic225]

Most TD's dont enter cap points, mostly because if they are casemates, or have poor turret traverse, there isn't much of a point. The whole CQC argument. Now I have done CQC with some, sometimes effective, sometimes not. I feel like most people wont play them as they would rather get cap points instead and want something with turret traverse. So maybe giving them buffs where they need it, or reduced spawn points to compensate would help.

[@jeremeymcdude]

SPG's should have a form of indirect fire similar to the Sturmtiger. things like the Sturmpanzer and Ho-Ri should be able to lob shells across the map if the player wanted to but it wouldn't be as effective as the Sturmtiger simply due to the smaller shells. Also Indirect Fire support wouldn't be as cancerous as vehicles in WoT would be simply because you are essentially required to fire from your gunner's view. What could essentially be an HE Short Range Artillery Piece can also be used as they are now as direct Fire vehicles so you get a bit of both in the "Light Heavy Gun TD's" as well as "Self Propelled guns" Gives them a sort of Niche to fill as opposed to being just large cannons on a relatively unarmored chassis.

[@thisnameCANNOTchange]

A way for spgs to act as infield arty with low velocity shells for indirect fire so when “attention to the map” shows up you can lay down some fire in that spot

[@Zorro9129]

SPGs should be able to use indirect fire, becoming their own artillery platform like in WoT.

[@erixon2012]

My fav TDs would be the KV2, Sturer Emil and waffentrager. KV2 and Emil can 1 click all enemies they meet, and sturer is quite a menace against all tanks on his tier.

[@itisMe04]

Next video from spookston: the War Thunder problem

[@RiversJ]

Years late but yeah, reducing the SPG spawn point cost would make some sense. They're just a glorified gun that can be repositioned, I'd say similar cost to the SPAA's. This would also reduce the incidence of one run wonders where if you die too fast you can't respawn.

[@rickjeffery4110]

I've always loved playing the different tank destroyers, But the past few years, little by little, the maps are being readjusted to compliment the more popular playstyles, which don't include tank destroyer friendly locations on maps being available any longer. One by one they get blocked in one way or another.

[@Kaiser282]

I think these are what shows the problem of having 'historical tanks in a little box simulator' the best. Most maps and game modes aren't really built for them or they are outclassed by everything already anyways. TDs are better on defense and rocket vehicles are supposed to shoot from far away or over cover. But there aren't many mechanics that promote these things.

[@fennhecker4575]

Hey spokeston, i know this has nothing to do with a heavy tank, but i just though i should tell you, check out the PT-76-57 tank (the reward tank from the battle pass) as an AA, i think it works really well in that role, even though that's not its original intent

[@reiders5336]

TD's (SPG's) in essence aren't designed for breakthrough Frontline usage. It would be interesting if Gaijin designated a TD exclusive spawn on long range sight lines for ground maps. If players can get high altitude bomber spawns then why can't TD's get their own spawn?

[@marksman1734]

I get very hyped when I see Mr. Spookston killing tanks easily and then I go to play WT then get recket and I hate myself

[@Funguy5347]

Same dude, as cool as I think tanks are I’ve basically given up ground RB. Now I play the various naval and air modes depending on how serious I want to be and can rely on at least an 80% chance of having a good time. It got to the point where enjoying a ground rb match was the exception so I’m over it, why torture myself over some video game

[@marksman1734]

@@Funguy5347 Lets hope one day we will be half good as Mr Spooskton is

[@bickboose9364]

Try using ground AB for training.

[@Funguy5347]

@@bickboose9364 problem is I’ve been playing RB for years and was pretty decent, but I just seem to get more frustrated lately, and since volumetric was implemented wacky crap keeps happening which only makes it worse. There’s just too much out of my control to enjoy it much, but I’ve also probably just gotten worse due to lack of practice lol

[@bickboose9364]

@@Funguy5347 I understand. Gaijin constantly takes 0.1 steps forward and 3 steps back with each new update these days. I'd normally recommend you quit the game since it's in a freefall in my opinion, but if you still have gamemodes you enjoy then keep having fun, king.

[@ThSeLo]

The SU-100P is actually in the fast TD range, it can reach 65 km/h and stuff, as a counterpart to the normal SU-100, it has kind of a turret and reloads faster. I think it's fine the way it is right now The M36, depending on the map, is either a decent mobility vehicle or a fast one. iirc the top speed is 42 km/h, but the thing is, it goes at 42 km/h almost everywhere, it has the acceleration for it. Some fast vehicles reach much more in certain maps, but struggle to reach even the M36's speed in some others because of terrain or slopes The SPGs, the ones with no armor or much speed, what I think they really need are good sights for sniping. Tbh, all SPGs should get good sights, at least the ones that aren't light tanks with other designation, and even those should get decent sights, not the garbage the M18 has e.g. the CA Lorraine, despite having good speed and acceleration isn't really a light tank type since the lack of turret and also the slow reload, besides also having a shell that doesn't really have a reliable one shot kill like APHE The CA Lorraine also doesn't have any useful armor like the Foch, so it's basically screwed at short-medium range It could be a good sniper, since the round has high pen, and at enough distance you don't worry that much about armor, but the thing is, it doesn't have good sights, they're mediocre at best, so you could do that, but not very reliably Also, never gonna happen, but TDs with poor speed, and slow tanks in general, should not be queued for really big maps that were introduced for MBTs (Fulda, Red Desert, etc). Tbh I play more MBT maps with WWII tanks that with MBTs, my MBTs usually fight in Karelia, disgusting

[@samathythemanathy8112]

I think an interesting mechanic for SPG's would be actually making THEM the artillery - have a consistent scale on maps and allow players to range and fire at distant targets based on what they see on the minimap using a different aiming reticle.

[@СергійКузніченко]

That would be extremely unfun to play agains, like imagine you riding in your new fancy Lorraine 40t and you leave your spawn, and bam, a 1.0 sturmpanther oneshot you using the intellegence, given to him by CAS... The sturmpanzer is happy, the CAS is happy, and you are having a mental breakdown in your hangar. Also AA would be always shelled to death, and would need to always stay on the move, or die.

[@samathythemanathy8112]

@@СергійКузніченко But the same mechanic already exists - artillery. It is no fun getting one shot by artillery but at least with SPG's there is more skill involved than just clicking on a grid square with max leveled crew. To counter this you need to move, or die anyway. This would also make CAS and intelligence more important.

[@Dioxol]

I'm surprised you didn't mention the Foch, as its a good inbetween of the TDs of armour and the TDs with speed. (300mm effective thickness front plate, but surprisingly fast) Or the ARL-44 (the one with the 90mm gun) since its a well-armoured (except turret) turreted "TD". Good video though.

[@Bashmaster24]

I'd say give Light TDs and GCs Scouting while only giving GC Arty. Slow TDs and GC should get exclusive spawns away from other tank classes, either at angled to spawns of tanks or closer to the objectives as realisticly they are used for more as ambush and defense then aggressive flanking. Basicly the idea is to give small or fast tds more support, heavy tds a better way to do their job, and gcs a balance between both.

[@Spyronite913]

Good video but you didn't mention a few TDs that have the particularity of having no turret... While not having better firepower. They are few but for example, I often don't see the point of using my StuG III F (BR 3.3 in RB) when I can have my Pz IV F2 and G with the same gun and a turret. I mean, the StuG may have slightly better armor but I don't find it to be that superior. It ends up being a last resort vehicle in the case I lost my panzers