SQ Bass from Norway!! Sigberg Audio 10D Subwoofer Review!

[@aceofspades6667]

A rel S/510 and and rythmik fv12 comparison could have been useful. Especially because in your reviews you gave both SQ subs high marks in extension and output as well. It seems like this sub gives a nice balance between the Speedwoofer 12S output but Rel S510 SQ technical performance. Low teens hz extension ain’t no joke. Solid review memo! 🙌

[@NemoPropaganda]

no no no, absolutely not, this does not come close to what a single RSL 12S can do, that sub is giant!! As far as REL & Rythmik did you see my graphic at the end of the video?

[@jonathanspeights9256]

Nice to see a Sigberg review...thanks Nemo. 😎 I've had an eye on the INKOGNITO sub they offer as well as the new Sub10 from Buchardt. Gotta subscribe now just in case either of those pop up on the channel.

[@NemoPropaganda]

I will review the buchardt sub for sure, you know I love buchardt :)

[@eltonc1505]

Continue the good work Nemo ....

[@NemoPropaganda]

thanks elton!

[@andrewpeel912]

Great review! I've been waiting for this one! The drivers used are made by scanspeak, they are high quality and very highly regarded in the DIY hifi world. These drivers are also used in many ultra high end speakers, like the magico s3, and bang and olufsen beolab 90 ($150k USD). I am using the 12 inch version of this driver in a dali euphonia as2 cabinet, and it is by far the best subwoofer I've ever heard, those drivers are magical. The amp module is a hypex FA501 I believe, also highly regarded. Do you think the sigberg 10d can play as loud and as deep as a rel s510? Could you see yourself using this sub (or a pair) in your main hifi system?

[@NemoPropaganda]

I'm not sure since I don't test maximum output, as far as me using it personally no, not at all, because I review a lot of gear I need a sub that can be setup quickly with a wide variety of speakers since I'm always changing components around. The Sigberg sounds good but I'd have to grab my laptop everytime I got a new set of speakers in and that would really slow me down. The sigberg 10d is a really good set it and forget it option but my system just changes too much.

[@richardgrant418]

Which Scan-Speaks are they?

[@andrewpeel912]

@@richardgrant418 scanspeak 26w/4558t00

[@ravington666]

Great review as always. A review & comparison to B&W DB2D would be most appreciated

[@NemoPropaganda]

I totally would but the DB2D is $4500 and B&W isn't interested in working with me at this time.

[@andrewpeel912]

The sigberg 10d will be better in most aspects than the db2d. I've owned 2x db2d, at separate times, they're nice, but lack authority below 30hz. I changed to a JL e110, which was far better in terms of output below 30hz. And if the sigberg 10d is equivalent to the JL e110 at those frequencies. The db2d drivers only have a 10mm xmax (20mm total), the sigberg 10d drivers can do about 18mm each way (36mm total). I'm running these drivers in my current subwoofer, and they're amazing

[@ravington666]

@NemoPropaganda Such a shame they're not being co-operative as it is identically priced to the Sigberg here in the UK at around £2900.

[@ravington666]

@andrewpeel912 Thank you so much for your comprehensive insight, it was very useful ! Very few online reviews on the DB range of subs. You've made me glad that I purchased the JL e110. Btw may I ask what your current sub is ?

[@andrewpeel912]

​@ravington666 I've owned a lot of high end subwoofers over the last few years, couldn't quite find what I was looking for. The JL e110 was definitely a favourite, although I did have some issues with phase being out at certain points on the spectrum, I think this is due to the internal eq that is applied to the amp to give it's flat response to 23hz. I think the e112 would have less eq and be easier to blend. I'm now using a Dali euphonia as2, this was running the first generation of the drivers used in the sigberg 10d, I have upgraded them to the latest version. It is absolutely incredible. Don't get me wrong about the DB2d, it's a great sub, but it's just a tad small to get any real output below 30hz. I think the only b&W sub worth considering would be the db1d, but when you weigh up the price difference between it and the JL, you'd just get an e112 and save a ton of money.

[@whocares0503]

It's a whole of money to me, but it has the features to work anywhere. Looks like a solid unit, wonder how it compares to a higher end REL. I am partial to Rel as I have 2 HT 1508s. Great review as always!

[@CarlVanDoren61]

S series different animal 😮 2-Rel Carbon Specials JLA cr-1 active crossover Shunyata Python xlr cables 70hz sats & subs, 180 phase

[@NemoPropaganda]

did you see the line graphic at the end of the video?

[@whocares0503]

@@NemoPropaganda i did more listening and I missed it... That is MY bad!

[@palmspar]

Nice review Nemo! you can explain very well what you hear about the sound of a speaker/subwoofer. The 500 watt of the Hypex is the rms rating i think there are some manufactures out there rated there subs at peak power what sells better. But system efficiency is key indeed.

[@NemoPropaganda]

yeah it's hard to understand how some brands rate power, like JL says RMS but then they say "short term" so it's unclear if JL is referencing peak or RMS and what do they mean by short term?

[@palmspar]

@@NemoPropaganda I think rms short therm is when the capacitors are full, and when they are drown empty the amp must go on its rms continuous power. The NC500 used in the FA501 amp is very good, a review and bench is on the ASR forum.

[@roccobruno8027]

Really nice to see compact subwoofer options. I wonder how it would compare against the B&W DB2D?

[@andrewpeel912]

I wrote a response to this earlier, but it didn't seem to come through... It was something like this: I've owned the db2d on 2 separate occasions, nice sub, but doesn't dig low enough for my liking (ignore it's specs that state it can reach 8hz), it struggles below 30hz. I changed to a JL e110, this was much better in the low end response, especially below 30hz, it was noticeably louder than the db2d. The db2d drivers have a short throw, 10mm each way. The sigberg drivers are around 18mm each way, that's nearly double the volume displacement. I'm now using a sub with 2x scanspeak discovery drivers (same as the sigberg, but the 12" version), and it is by far the best sub I've heard.

[@NemoPropaganda]

the DB2D is another compact solution with respectable performance but its small sub price premium is a bit extreme clocking in at $4500 in the US I think it's just too expensive so it's not really on my radar for a review at this time. Also B&W exaggerate a lot of their specs, I don't know if they still do it but for a long time they only rated peak power on the plate amp and didn't publish RMS figures.

[@roccobruno8027]

@@andrewpeel912 Thanks for the info.

[@andrewpeel912]

​@@NemoPropagandab&w db subs all use a hypex nc502mp amp module (2x500w RMS at 4 ohm - bridgeable), I'm guessing it was either cheaper or easier to use the same module in the whole lineup, but those drivers definitely are not demanding that kind of power when they're only travelling 10mm each way... So they aren't lying about the amplifier output capabilities, but misleading the consumer because the amps simply won't run at their full capacity. Take the b&w db4s for example, it uses a hypex nc502mp - 1000w RMS amp for a single 10 inch driver (the same driver and amp used in the db2d)

[@mudibluz2006]

How did you hook up the subwoofer to your setup? I would like to purchase two subwoofers but my preamp does not have a dedicated subwoofer port. I would love it if you could do a video on how to hook up multiple subwoofers!

[@NemoPropaganda]

I use pre-outs on the back of my amp, if you don't have that you can use high level inputs.

[@Birmingham_racing]

Never heard of this brand but I like it

[@andrewpeel912]

I really wanted to use that option, but it meant having to buy separates, and the separate version of my Yamaha as3000 is about $26k aud 😱. I loved my e110, fantastic sub. After trying many different high end subs, I actually found that the older velodyne HGS-12 to be very similar, these things are built extremely well, and can be found on the used market for a few hundred dollars, I highly recommend trying one. Check the date of Manufacture on the amp plate before buying, you want a series ii, I think they were made from 2002. If you love it as much as I do, get the filter caps changed to 105⁰ capable (stock is 85⁰, they will ultimately pop), a cheap fix, and that sub will go for another 20 years, the drivers are indestructible, some people have put them in cars. I've also got an hgs15, an absolute weapon. The HGS line use the same amp section as the dd+ series.

[@NemoPropaganda]

I personally would not trust a 20+ year old subwoofer driver, the adhesives that hold the driver together can start to fail around that time.

[@andrewpeel912]

@@NemoPropaganda so I have that concern also, and when I buy an old sub I take the driver out and check it, I've found that the older b&W subs have failed glue on the surround and on the spider suspension, poor quality there. The velodyne HGS subs, I have pulled a few drivers out from that line, and they look like they were built yesterday, they use really strong glue, and lots of it! I wouldn't be surprised if these drivers were still running after 50 years. Possibly the best driver build quality I've seen. They use a dual tandem voice coil and dual spiders just like the paradigm xr13, and similar to the JL e110. There's a review here on KZbin for the hgs12, check it out

[@fletchermunson6225]

Oooo. I want to hear about that Heaven 11 amp behind you. I wonder how it works with the Zu DWX if you kept those.

[@NemoPropaganda]

I'm not keeping the dwx but they are still here and I will use them with the billi at some point :)

[@fletchermunson6225]

@@NemoPropaganda OOPS. Their web site says dont use with high impedance speakers like the Zu DW6. Guess it's not a good match.

[@IrenESorius]

Thanks Nemo,, 💖🙏💖

[@shanxac]

Another excellent review, as always, Nemo. Just was curious to know if you still have the FVX12 with you?? And, how would that compare with this Sigberg subwoofer - coz, they both use the hypex amp right? Not sure if they have the same model though!!

[@NemoPropaganda]

yes the FVX12 is one of my personal subs, did you see my line graph at the end?

[@shanxac]

@NemoPropaganda Yes, for sure. I too own the FVX12 based on your recommendation. Boy, am I happy; gives me goose bumps every time I play them. So, about the hypex amps in both, are they the same??

[@NemoPropaganda]

@@shanxac no they're very different, the sigberg uses an off the shelf plate amp, Rythmik's plate amp is a custom unit that uses hypex parts. The FVX12 is pretty much end game, you don't need to wonder if anything will outperform it, Rythmik as a company stands on in island essentially with no direct competitor, sure there is REL but REL is very different and mostly focuses on smaller high waf subs while Rythmik focuses more on larger utilitarian subs.

[@shanxac]

@@NemoPropaganda Thanx Nemo for your reply and clarification 👍. Please continue with your excellent work, a great help to music & movie buffs like me.

[@DeMorcan]

I cross over my HSU at 90hz (VVTF-2 mk5,) because the HPF at 90hz helps the imaging of the main speakers. with my amp. Before I had an map with an HPF I did cross over lower. I would like to know where the HSU fit on your tonal scale. Seems to go below 20hz in room (although I do not have much that needs that low).

[@NemoPropaganda]

I'm not sure bro, I've tried to reach out to hsu a few times, they don't seem interested in working with me.

[@DeMorcan]

@@NemoPropaganda I sold the KEF KC92 and then got HSU. Although the KEF was amazingly small for the sound it produced.

[@Pentenfi]

Nice, I know that audioholics have tested and praised this one. It uses some ScanSpeak Discovery driver. I am curious what you have to say

[@SuperWizkid1234]

Hey could you review the Magnat Alpha RS 8”. Regular price $330 got it for 99 on adorama . Keep up the good content !

[@NemoPropaganda]

I'm not really a fan of vented 8" subs so probably not my bro.

[@SuperWizkid1234]

@@NemoPropaganda Understandable, I opted with x2 8” for 99 a piece over their 12” woofer. Hits hard enough for me I have a small room though. You definitely put me on to new products and info one doesn’t know as a newbie thanks a lot brotha!!

[@TonyKnowsBest]

My glasses fogged up at 0:33 when the words "~$3000 USD" came on the screen. But I liked the form, so I kept watching. Is the overhead of shipping from Norway a big part of the price?

[@sigbergaudio2183]

No, it costs the same here in Norway.

[@skzeeman007]

I am seeing $3735 on their website

[@CarlVanDoren61]

Double down that dollar amount 😮

[@sigbergaudio2183]

@@skzeeman007 Where are you located? We're working on a new international site that will have fixed prices in Euro that will hopefully be live within a week or two. The current site has a base currency in NOK, which means the US price you pay varies with the exchange rate. You will get the correct price during checkout, and the export price is 31995NOK which is ~2988USD at the moment.

[@NemoPropaganda]

yeah, I hear you, compact subwoofers with big output tend to sell at a premium, like KEF KC62 and KC92. Kind of like compact laptops.

[@ravington666]

Yes...60Hz or below is where its at !

[@isak6626]

Did you measure it in room? If so, how low did it get and at what SPL? I have dual XTZ SUB 10.17 edge subwoofers and am looking for an upgrade in terms of extension while still being small.

[@Pentenfi]

Check out the in depth review from audioholics of this unit. It contains all the spl info you would want. Maybe they have tested the xtz as well. The xtz being ported, you will get more upper bass from the sidberg but gain little to none in terms of low bass. That would be a side-grade. Go bigger if you want more spl. Ported 12s or 15s

[@isak6626]

@@Pentenfi Thanks. I can't fit anything larger than what I have, wherefore I'm looking at dual driver subs. Also I don't need more SPL, but more extension would be welcome. In my room, the XTZ starts to fall off below 23 Hz.

[@Pentenfi]

​@@isak6626Sealed subs can usually play lower but not as loud. Depending on your room size, your room might compensate for that and you'd be better off with a sealed sub. Again, check audioholics's reviews, they compared many sealed subs for their output capabilities. A svs sb4000 or sb13 ultra might do the trick for you in terms of extension and size

[@NemoPropaganda]

the 10.17 is a bit of a champion in terms of output for how small it is, you will have a hard time finding anything as small that can pound as loud, you might need to just step up to larger subs my bro :)

[@isak6626]

@@NemoPropaganda Damn it. I guess I should just forget about my FOMO then 😋 Thanks for your input!

[@robthegobbler]

I vote for the option of pc usage OR phone app, because fuck phone apps, but i get it. Both is good

[@NemoPropaganda]

I didn't know you had a sub w a cell phone app, why didn't you like it? I'm not saying they're the greatest thing ever but they certainly are convenient.

[@robthegobbler]

@@NemoPropaganda i don't, I'm saying i get why they exist

[@Feliciano12v]

Wow, that price though. External DSP and a Rythmik sounds like a winner and cheaper.

[@CarlVanDoren61]

Time alignment is key, not DSP

[@NemoPropaganda]

Rythmik is a winner a big winner for sure and still a hidden gem, no need for DSP unless you have major room issues that the onboard settings can't tame.

[@NemoPropaganda]

you can DSP through it but I understand if you feel like that's not the right way to go about it, this certainly is a unique approach but it did work well in my room.

[@stefverheyden2018]

They don't believe in phase because they use an "off the shelf" amp and it would cost them too much (effort) to add a button for it. The price is ridiculous for something with near 0 r&d cost.

[@NemoPropaganda]

I don't know enough about the individual compent prices or what the build cost is but I do think if it was priced within a few hundered dollars of the KEF KF92 that would make it extremely appealing.

[@CarlVanDoren61]

Own dipoles w subs 😊 Need external crossover

[@haydenbarrow9603]

so, nemo its over price then

[@NemoPropaganda]

as always the market will decide if the price is right or not, personally I feel getting north of $2k on any sub is a tough sell for most customers. That's based on the many conversations I've had with so many people over the years, most people shop between $500 and $2k for a subwoofer.