Orcs and Goblins Tribes List Building Strategy | Warhammer the Old World | Deep Dive

[@Hebwastaken]

Submarine noises get an instant like

[@cameronblume5108]

I listened to this on the podcast, but I came here just to leave a comment about how awesome this episode was. I’m an orcs and goblins player who has been poring over the book for a month, and I still learned a lot from this. I hope you do these for every army!

[@getorix1]

Submarine noise is perfection

[@wargamereric9929]

LISAN AL-GAIIIBBB Also stuck in my head.

[@7nineofspades5]

Magic Armour restrictions are limited to access to Armour (No sub-types mentioned) and Shields. If you start with or can buy any kind of armour, you can buy all the Magic Armour sub-types. You need to have or be able to buy a shield to buy a magic shield.

[@matthowleymusic]

This

[@prlostinshadows]

❤❤❤❤ 3 hours is perfection. Thank you! DEEP DOIVEs can always be this long please

[@danbyer4764]

Looks at 3 hour video length. Looks at clock reading 11:54pm. The decision probably isn’t supposed to be this hard.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Take it in stages brother

[@nogurus4260]

At 39 minutes the discussion comes up about purchasing magic armors. I can understand the argument that you need to be able to purchase a mundane armor to upgrade to the magic equivalent but there a ton of instances of factions having plate armor in there magic item list that no model in the list would be able to purchase. VC and Beastmen, just off the top of my head, both lack access to mundane plate armor for their characters but have a magic item that is Plate armor that no one would be able to purchase based on that interpretation of the rules.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Genuinely appreciate these examples to argue back. This was something that popped up on another show, and I've had some back and forths talking it out since.

[@dominicjaquin4780]

This rule interests me greatly, and how this works will probably effect orcs and goblins quite a bit. I've been wanting to give armor of Mork to a goblin boss on gigantic spider, but goblins only have access to light armor. My interpretation of the rule is that if you can wear armor then you can wear any grade of magic armor. I think this rule is mainly to prevent mages from wearing armor and using shields unless they're intended to wear armor, such as the chaos dwarf sorcerer prophet

[@searle_harbour]

it was a strange take to me as ive played 4 editions of fantasy where having to buy mundane armour before magic was never even a thought. and also reading the rule it says a model has to be able to buy (or already be equipped with) armour, a shield or barding in order to purchase magic ones. so a shaman couldnt buy magic armour or a shield. BUT other character that have access to ANY armour could purchase ANY armour was my take from this. the catagorys are "armour, a shield or barding" and not "light, heavy, full plate, a shield or barding"

[@iJasko]

I read it as@@searle_harbour, it's only the three broad categories. If you can equip any kind of mundane armour, you can equip any kind of magic armour. Same with the other two (even though there isn't even any magic barding, not even for Bretonnians).

[@anglecynn927]

Having to purchase and have access to the the mundane items before you can purchase the enchantment is a 9th Age thing, maybe people are getting mixed up? WFB has always been self contained magic items, ie you don’t have to have the mundane items.

[@nklinef]

One thing I'm not seeing anyone talking about yet, is taking Allies. The obvious choice for this being Night Goblins. For 500 points, you can easily fit in 2 bricks with characters and nets and fanatics! Maybe even also fit in in some spider riders or a war machine or a mangler squig?

[@nklinef]

In particular I'm looking at Brayherds suddenly being able to take warmachines, a possibly second lvl4 wizard for cheap that brings WAAAGH magic(that compliments beasts beautifully), and even cheaper anvil units that can actually hold better than ungor to compliment the Beasts' multitude of excellent hammers and the best screening units in the game.

[@MrForsaken5]

this may be the best Greenskins deep dive on the internet. Thanks boys.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Arcane Journal coming up next week we reckon!

[@Benshooman]

ORCS AND GOBS LIST BUILDING EPISODE?! WHAT IS IT, CHRISTMAS?!!

[@Gearoidmacgiolla]

Absolutely love the DEEP DOIVE. I know it’s already long, but would love to get you two spending 30 minutes at the end banging out some archetype lists. For new folks like myself, seeing a sample list would be so useful

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Just make that another video for sure

[@louisraphael1727]

Nice! Haven't watched it yet but deep dives are always cool

[@mrripgiblet9510]

1 thing you guys got wrong. The doom diver when it has line of site you can move it by d3" in any direction, so you can use it on a hit to move over and put the center on top of characters in a unit. And you can use it if it scatters to scatter further if there is a target there etc.

[@TheWalkinDude]

Glad to see a deep dive on the Orcs and Goblins! Waaagggh!

[@nurglematthew893]

So nice, we watch it twice or tres!!

[@OverlyCynicalPirate]

I'm conjuring up a spider-themed goblin-only army right now, and this is the perfect video for me right now! Great work as always boys.

[@ohthreefiftyone]

The title and thumbnail make me excited to watch this video in pieces over the next couple days.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

its beefy for sure

[@ohthreefiftyone]

@@SquareBasedOldWorld It is and thanks for putting in the effort you guys do. I'm planning for an orcs and goblins force to be my first Warhammer army.

[@snubbull7309]

With trolls if you take Great Weapons it has the added bonus of being Armour Bane 2 in addition to AP-2, the trolls come with a native 1 armour bane & then that stacks with the 1 armour bane you get from a great weapon because special rules like AB are cumulative

[@alexmadrigal9703]

FOINALLEEE, a deep DOIVE. Can't wait for the rest of these, good job, boys.

[@Ceetvair]

I like this, but I would have preferred to get all the army overviews of the main and legacy armies before we start diving deep

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Separate streams my friend. Robbo is the content pipeline for the overviews : ) More to come!

[@IceJoust]

THE RETURN OF THE ALARM! LET'S GOOOOOO

[@IceJoust]

Got held up and only just finished it, but wanted to say how much value I got out of this as a Non-Greenskin player; of nothing else I can work out a Game Plan for Val if I encounter him in the tall grass ;)

[@Fearschooll]

Do Chaos Dwarfs next!!! Love the content keep it up.

[@zergstirfry]

Seconded!

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Probably will

[@ChazCharlie1]

​@@SquareBasedOldWorldNo, do Warriors of Chaos!

[@Buy_YouTube_Views_a135]

Your content keeps getting better and better. 😄

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Shhh... people will find out!

[@Bog_Dog]

Killing me how long I’ll likely have to wait for a Dark Elves Deep Doive !! Still, can learn from each factions one I suppose hahaha, maybe I’ll find my second army while I’m at it. Great content guys, I like the mix of you having some form of structure to the discussion, but still the pod casty chat, ye both know a lot so the discussions at random always touch on good points I find. The MTO stuff that was shown for Orc and Goblin Tribes tempted me greatly to go for them as the follow up to Dark Elves, there seems like so many fun thematic fluffy stuff going on for them as well as really solid pieces to assemble a force from.

[@lukevassh7740]

Os &Gs, baby, let's go!!! 🤘

[@davidbell8236]

Best intro ever 😂 more sound effects please. Love the vids!!

[@tylerhamil7004]

I love your guys’ army overviews and walkthroughs. They are funny and entertaining while also addressing competitive play. I know it’s been done a million times, but I’d love to see your take on Bretonnia.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

It will be done

[@nurglematthew893]

This is the way!! Orks and Gobbosz!!! Grot Ganga!!!

[@MrLordi27]

Orcs*

[@nurglematthew893]

Orcs!

[@Adler87]

@@MrLordi27 Orks is also fine. I don't think that orcs will see the difference in the spelling. ;)

[@zergstirfry]

Grot gang!

[@jacobdoiron2851]

Would love to get some episodes like this about other armies!

[@Iron_Wyvern]

Love these vids! Keep it up boys!

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

We will!

[@piotrskodowski7544]

Dwarf cav is gurocopters that are borderline broken for 60p

[@rdmths]

Marching Column cures both Impetuous and Frenzy. Just something to keep in mind.

[@mortenbrandtjensen6470]

I loved to hear you chat about orcs & goblins. This will likely be my go to guide for O&G for a long while. For a deep dive I would have loved to hear something about how much you can buff frenzied savage orc big uns with spears. Especially compared to black orcs and trolls. And maybe something about reliability vs total unreliability - that was covered in the chat about night goblins and squigherds.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

The issue is that savage orcs have zero survivability. I feel we tried to say that but maybe not enough

[@HughMurphy395]

Woody's being able to surround the fanatics with woods is one solution.

[@Willabrador]

I am so excited for this!!!!! My favourites:)

[@bodboddington9367]

I picked up the Orc Batallion box as a start for Orcs. I will make them goblins work with skermishing and slapping my gobbo shammy in there. I am very exited for the chariots. I am putting great weapon, frenzy, warpaint big possess in them. One chariot from the boss, the other from the chariot! 😊

[@questery]

Built a list for my brother with gobbos. I've chucked a bunch of trolls in as singles, for flank screens, and then one big anvil unit of 7.

[@kingwiku9735]

Please Deep Dive the Chaos Dwarf list!

[@blastbeatpie3239]

WAAAAAAGH! Just here to say that I really enjoyed this DEEP DOIVE, but also that Stone Trolls are also Ld5 over Ld4 of the other Trolls. Not sure if it makes a huge difference, but it wasn't picked up in the video :)

[@Lordvader1212]

Don’t forget the waaaghh banner also works with impetuous! Making it a bit of a debuff

[@michaelf.7339]

Great video, can't wair for the Empire deep dive!

[@jamesjones-pv7sl]

The thumb nail made me hype!

[@nashpainting]

Listening to 2 men talking about how much they like huge choppaz is always stimulating! 🤣

[@davidoliver3528]

I think the Orc Warboss is the play with trolls combining with Warband enhanced leadership, that 10ld on stupidity is so much better to have than the 9 on Black Orc Warboss

[@Fortunes.Fool.]

I’m really looking forward to the Chaos Warriors episode. At this point I’ll only have time for one Old World army so I gotta get this right.

[@Mr._A685]

Very good day today. Its Square based day!!!

[@fimpen546]

As an avid Dark elf player since 6th edition, my answer to hordes of units have always been witch elves. 3 high initiative poisoned attacks each (2hw+frenzy) they mangle through low armour units, which is what horde units tend to be. Even with them not having WS5 anymore, they're probably still quite suitable to that role. And I'd imagine that most armies have a similar choice of unit with many attacks (though maybe not the poison, which helps tremendously) Will they be able to mangle their way through a unit of 50 gobbos? doubtful. But they'd take a large chunk out for sure. And they're a flanking unit, so would not be charging the front unless necessary. Disrupt those ranks and run them down.

[@georgesutherlandhoward4417]

I'm gonna try something out in a practice game (1,250 pts) today: 9 Wolf riders in skirmish formation with bows and Reserve Move, accompanied by a Black Orc Big Boss on Boar. The Riders move out away from the boss, shoot, and then Reserve Move back to within 6" of the boss. I'm not sure if they'll make their points back directly, but if I can use them to threaten the back line and lone Wizards and tie up my opponent's Chariot, then I think they'll have done their job.

[@chitzkoi]

What goblin riders deserve is WS3 and to lose Impetuous. The fact we get both those things in the Chaos Dwarf list is only offset by the fact they're a Rare choice.

[@iJasko]

Those are Hobgoblins, though. They also have completely different USRs too.

[@chitzkoi]

@TheDishWasher Right, but even skaven are base WS3 in TOW. As the lads suggest, even with bows, greenskin light cavalry is in a terrible place when you stick it with Impetuous, low hero LD *and* WS2

[@iJasko]

@@chitzkoi oh no question, they are definitely worse off than hobgoblin wolf riders. But tbf, the main problem is impetuous, I’m not sure WS3 would be enough to mitigate that.

[@chitzkoi]

@TheDishWasher yeah with impetuous and WS3 they're still kamikaze who will do little of use. A version of impetuous that allows goblins, who are not as brave as the rule requires them to be, to satisfy a failed check by making a forced ranged attack would work in my view

[@GilthosDrakoniss]

Impetuous and frenzy are not an issue on movement 4 units. Those units were already going to charge anything they could 90% of the time because they so rarely get to charge. It’s only a kick in the balls on movement 6 and higher. A black orc boss on a boar in a boar rider unit flanked by chariots is auto include for me. He keeps everything fast and hard hitting in the area in check.

[@schlatta-dirtydeeds9351]

Fungus Wine is weird, because it's basically "pass a leadership test to automatically pass a leadership test"

[@searle_harbour]

55:15 you touched on fall back in good order letting you reform, i cant see anywhere were it says you can redress the ranks to form a big line though, only go from one formation to another.

[@7nineofspades5]

When you FBIGO you get to reform not redress. Technically you're Fleeing but with an auto-rally afterwards, when rallying you get to reform. Reforming is still a manoeuver though, so models in the rallying unit can't move more than twice their Movement characteristic.

[@searle_harbour]

yeah thats what im saying, i cant see how you would be able to change from say a 5x4 to a 10x2 as its only a reform, not a redress when you rally. Re: 55:15 @@7nineofspades5

[@TobyGilham]

DEEEP DOIVE

[@beefboy9500120953]

Absolutely top tier video, loved it.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Much appreciated!

[@TheShweeble]

Deep doiving! Love listening to you guys. Looking forward to the Dwarf video. I'm having fun playing Old World. I've played only a handful of games, but I keep getting destroyed by dragons and I'd really love to hear your thoughts on how to deal with them as dwarfs except for "take max cannons and hope to hit". I totally get your and Val's examples of how you could neuter one with magic, but my stocky lads can't take any magic items from the big book and no mages for us as well

[@Squonkles]

Awesome vid as always, guys!

[@davidm.corbin4643]

ORCS ORCS ORCS ORCS ORCS. Bret player, but I might do Orcs and Gobos later

[@Jimmynuts1]

Night Goblins are a must have for a competitive army list - characters, squigs and fanatics. High cost armies like Elves and Chaos warriors really feel the 3D6 str 5 hits

[@7nineofspades5]

2:33:30 You don't need to be the same sub-type to join a unit unless they're skirmishers. But Monstrous Infantry and Monstrous Cav have Clumsy, so you can't join them with a smaller character. You CAN put a Doombull in a unit of Ungor or Gor though for example (As long as they're in Open Order and not Skirmishing).

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Love that thankyou

[@iJasko]

Yeah came here for that, otherwise the diagrams on pages 207 and 208 would make no sense.

[@Isjiek]

Great video, loving the deep dive discussions!! Any chance for a Skaven video? :)

[@andrewbakescakes9684]

@5:00 Wrong. You can mitigate impetuous with Marching Column. Can't declare a charge if in Marching Column, so don't do the test. Also, can block your own impetuous units with non-impetuous ones, like night goblins and trolls. Can't declare a charge if you can't see through the enemy. Also can block LoS with spells like CoC from Illusion for again the same reason.

[@shawndavies2204]

On the reserve move, I think it's common sense that characters move as the unit does. Characters don't have to pay for drilled, yet specifically says a unit doesn't lose drilled. Also nowhere does it say, a unit lose it's abilities if joined by a character. Otherwise you'd lose, Shield wall, or stubborn (which you don't) or frenzy.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

It's super unclear right now. But like Vanguard for instance was ruled in the FAQ to just leave the character behind in the dust lol. So idfk

[@shawndavies2204]

​@@SquareBasedOldWorld Oh GW you so funny. I think you are very correct mate, the answer may be that there are so many rules it's difficult to pack them all concisely into a rules set like this. So you get contradictions like Drilled it's OK, you keep the rule; Vanguard and it's not ok. On pg205 this paragraph almost nails it. So it's the first line, should it read?? : A character that has joined a unit adopts the FORMATION "special rules" of that unit. Anyway it's the usual mess from GW LOL you have to chuckle. On pg205 Character models rarely have any FORMATION special rules. Instead: • A character that has joined a unit adopts the FORMATION of that unit. • A Lone character (see page 206) is always considered to be in a Skirmish formation. • A character mounted on a ridden monster or chariot adopts the formation of

[@mattbridges385]

lol damn it I got trolled, scrolling through my feed And thought Jeremy sedekis was playing some warhammer with you haha

[@davidoliver3528]

on the spider riders, the rider and the spider have poisoned attacks, the low ws isnt that big of an issue because they're just after those 6s

[@GhostGuitars]

absolute banger, guys!

[@Willabrador]

My night goblins have been knocked off the board by cavalry with first charge. I have taken stubborn on them for a FBIGO but still counts as flee so have leapt off the board 😂. Always having fun with them!

[@Willabrador]

Negates warband and drops my leadership

[@Lordvader1212]

So your girlfriend designed the map, and didn’t get given one?! That’s crazy! Would have thought they would give the designers a copy!

[@SquidFisT44]

DIOVE!

[@thezeevy]

Would like to point out...the trollhide trousers dont need to be from a dead troll. Trolls regenerate. Its common because every tribe has a troll that just gets skinned every once and a while and the shamans make some pants.

[@thezeevy]

Other point...the casters dont have impetuous but all their mounts do

[@pugthedog]

Nice deep doive guys. Is this coming to the podcast feed?

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Just published! And we have a couple episodes to catch up there as well : )

[@pugthedog]

@@SquareBasedOldWorld thank you guys that’s the main way I listen to your excellent cintent

[@FFSMatt]

Glowey Green Amulet best magic item.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

You are the best magic item

[@CorporalTunnel]

A Deeeep doive for O&G? Christmas came early

[@nklinef]

I don't think anyone realizes just how insanely powerful Snottlings are en masse. For 350 points you can take an unbreakable unit with 60 wounds(!) that alone will always lose combat. So it is basically impossible for any enemy unit that enters combat with them to leave combat, the ultimate tarpit unit! Deploy them 10 wide to one side of the board, march them forward, and there's an entire side of the board where your enemy's combat units are stuck useless or wasting turns reforming scrambling around one another, or cemented in place waiting to be flank/rear charged. To everything except fast cav and flyers(which they can still counter-charge to hold in place), Snottlings are a mobile(Mov5) impenetrable wall that can block off huge portions of your enemy's offensive power while you use force concentration to smash the rest of his army when used properly.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

And I thought units of two in marching column was big brained. This is downright conspiratorial.

[@nklinef]

😂 That's just the tip of the iceberg. Obviously they're a great shield for rock lobbers, doom divers, or magic missile mage wyverns; but... march a minimum unit or two of Night Goblins loaded with fanatics behind them along the pivoted wall(to fill out your core), and you can fling the fanatics through your Snotling Wall into whatever units they get in combat with, popping out behind the enemy unit in the middle of their back line units that are jammed up attempting to reposition, while simultaneously decreasing the size of the wall to possibly: fire some gobby arrows, flank charge whats in combat with the Snotlings, or even flank charge enemy units that reformed to march around it!

[@nklinef]

Oh look, I didn't even realize snotlings being swarms means you can fire over them! So you can park a big unit of night goblin archers with the poison banner, goblin spider riders, or bolt throwers behind them and never worry about being charged while the gun line fires with impunity! AND you can include them in any Ravening Hordes faction as Allies along with a LvL4 O&G wizard on a magic carpet ...interesting

[@nklinef]

...or a Level 4 Orc Battle Magic wizard in an Orc poison banner Archer Mob with Arcane Familiar and the the Ruby Ring. Add in bolt throwers, spider riders, and night goblin archers for more dakka. But that set up alone behind a snotling wall and you have an effectively Level 5 Wizard casting two fireballs a turn, using Arrow Attraction to buff all your shooting, using Arcane Urgency double moving your snotlings on top of their vanguard move to block your opponent's units in their deployment zone turn 1, and placing a Pillar of Fire vortex you control on the units you've blocked in. That's an oppressive gunline that controls the board and could practically win games by itself for only 1/3 of your army(~700 points) in a 2,000 point game!

[@piotrskodowski7544]

I actually prefer stones trolls to river trolls. Magic rez 1 is suprisingly relevant against ruby ring that is most often a thing people like to throw at them to strip a lot of wounds at no regen on top of that sones have 5 Ld. one pip do not seem like much but if something happens to the general that makes them that more likely to actually do anything.

[@davidoliver3528]

i would say you're seriously sleeping on the orc boar chariot, those are the best chariots going for the points, the Mangler is great with the random movement but the boar chariot is alot more reliable and can be taken as a mount

[@JesseDiMauro]

My other chariot is a mangler squig.

[@YouTubeuser6294]

Fanatics, cast a dangerous terrain template in front of the gobbos they release and hope for the best

[@matthowleymusic]

Where are you seeing that you cant join light infanty with a heavy infantry character ? Theres a picture example of exactly that happening on p207. In the trolls case the reason characters cant join them is because they have the clumsy speacial rule (in the monstrous infantry section)

[@piotrskodowski7544]

"I already have 40 squigs". Mee to.

[@nemo-no-name]

High Elves should be less strong on offence and have a lot of heavy armour /plate and shield. They should be Armoured Elves compared to offence Dark Elves and guerilla Wood Elves. Right now Spearmen are just double priced Goblins.

[@LawL_LawL]

Feel like cavalry spears on the Hoppers are an inconsequential luxury at best, a waste of points at worst. The main course coming out of Hoppers are all of those attacks from the Bounder Squigs, preferably on the charge; the Impact Hits are a decent side too. The piddly little attacks from the riders are a sad, WS2-flavoured garnish, and tacking on cav spears does very little to really change that. The Boss on the other hand at least provides one buff not to be overlooked: meatshielding against a character that hits before you, even on the charge. Strikes First, Counter Charge, or just insanely high base Initiative from any character with some combat ability has a real chance of one-shotting an entire unit of these goofy goobers before they get to do anything. The Boss is at least insurance for the rest of your guys to get their hits in before the unit inevitably explodes, and he does that for about as many points as giving spears to a unit of these guys. Not to mention his one extra attack is probably statistically close enough to what value you get from the spears, or close enough that his other benefits tacked on make the Boss a clear winner. Shave the spears off two of these units and you have enough points to buy something somewhere, potentially a lot more consequential than cav spears on Hoppers. Idk, in a game of small margins and endless list-building opportunities, see what you can do with even 10pts saved from the cav spears. Hell, scrounge TWO more points from somewhere, or just have that lying around, and you get an extra guy in one of these units instead.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

This was a little while ago now - but I did actually arrive at this exact conclusion at some point. By the time I played that list in a GT they were fully stripped down and only featured the boss as you recommend. 10/10 review of the review ; ) - Val

[@emcdunna]

It seems kind of sad to me that night goblins and black orcs are so superior to the other types. Will we ever see regular orcs on the table? Do you think it's a bad thing that the grand army roster let's you specialize this much (black orcs as core) with seemingly 0 downsides?

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Remember ... we're sweaty. We tend to really focus in on the "best in slot" or best choices. Top choices are not the ONLY choices, they're just hard to ignore. I think there's a ton of space to (once we're all bored of winning with Black Orcs and Night Gobbos) just remove those options and then have a lot of fun making lists with the rest of the roster. I'd bet there's still tons of good to be had.

[@piotrskodowski7544]

I want to love Arachnarok as well. But man is he overcosted. He suffers from doing many things but very few doing good. He would be good for 60-70 points less for my taste. And yes they combine wounds with character. I tried goblin shaman general. This mean his aura from waaagh is frigging 18" on top of this big base, basically entire army.

[@r.j.macready]

O&G players should kiss GW for giving them the Black Orc warboss so cheaply... and Empire players should punch them for how expensive they made the Grand Master.

[@vodrake]

I don't believe there is a rule preventing different sub types of units joining one another. Or indeed different types in general. For example you could have a Heavy Cav character join a unit of Regular Infantry. I think it may restrict things with skirmishers. However characters have a hard time joining Mounstrous units (both Infantry and Cav) as they have the Clumsy special rule which prevents characters from joining unless they also have it.

[@TheRobstien]

I also was trying to find this rule. Even in rule book there’s a pic of a cav guy in a block of infantry.

[@Benshooman]

Did you guys cover boar boys?

[@piotrskodowski7544]

I found sometimes T4 is massive on orcs. I did some TTS test games and my night gobbos melt under for examle gyro spam. Orcs not so much. They dot care about S3 tremplates or bombs, even 6 of them.

[@shawndavies2204]

I was surprised you don't want to put characters in units. Both strategies IMO will be workable and just as successful. Depending upon the dice gods of course.

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Characters yes, wizards its a question

[@shawndavies2204]

@@SquareBasedOldWorld You're right, if you don't have a plan behind how you are going to use your wizard in the front rank of a unit. Don't do it. So far my Wizards have done rather well in the front ranks.

[@davidoliver3528]

The Arachnarok is best used as a mount for a lv 4 goblin shaman, he increases the WS to 4, can provide 5+ ward and gives the shaman 360 vision. Also has 10 wounds and give a healing potion on top of it. It is 600pts though. p.s they 100% do combine wounds

[@piotrskodowski7544]

Boar boyz with WAAAAGH!!! banner and Er we go spell gets 22" charge range. One of longest if not longest in the game. Great deturrent against those pesky dragons with some characters inside.

[@iikkakangas2586]

whats the verdict on wearing multiple 'eadbutting hats?😅

[@piotrskodowski7544]

With open order I tend to move my snotling and pivot them so they face away form the enemy, and than ipetiouocity is not an issue. So what if they are charged in flank. It is not like aditional 5 WS 2 S2 attacks really matter. And ythey are unbrekable either way so combat res do not matter. And frakly even things like elite cav will not kill them in one turn.

[@davidoliver3528]

the flying carpet is fly 8, just a heads up in case you inadvertently cheat in a future game

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

Confused it with the illusion spell I bet. Pretty sure I haven't been doing that irl.

[@gileshaythornthwaite8866]

Chariots have first charge Mangler Squig doesn’t

[@Thatworldeatersguy]

fanatics easy to kill, cast spell with magical vortex or terrain feature, I.E column of crystal. instantly destroyed

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

This is actually a great trick! You can't cast them directly onto the fanatic (as it's a unit) but you can definitely block them or use Pillar of fire to specifically kill them

[@Thatworldeatersguy]

@@SquareBasedOldWorld Actually you can cast directly between a group of them though as most vortex’s are “pick a point” which negates the rule that doesn’t let you target them. Before learning how to use fanatics, I found it wise to learn how to kill them in every way possible, in the end it’s paid dividends as I came 1st at event this weekend with my Waaagh!🥳🥳

[@matt9591]

3 hours? very bassed

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

This isn't some shallow swim ... IT'S A DEEP DOIVE!

[@piotrskodowski7544]

Black orcs are better than big uns becouse of WS. And great wepons still have downside due to making them I1.

[@matthewpurling5179]

So a Black Orc unit measures 6” from the unit to quell but what happens when a Black Orc character in a orc unit. Do you measure from the character or the unit itself joined?

[@azamoz8293]

Bad internal balance. Normal goblins shouldn’t have impetuous too. That said a unit of 40 spear gobos with a skulker did what they were supposed to do for me in the last game. The 5＋ save actually made some difference for me. Problem with fanatics is the randomness as they can as well hurt you, stop your advance, and possible openings the enemy could have made. Not t mention straight rolling bad and dying right away. For someone who tends to roll bad, the unit loses value. Any detail on why a character in a wolf unit doesn’t get reserve move with them? No specific ruling on the skill that says no. Non stubborn characters in stubborn units don’t delete stubborn from the unit. Don’t random move unit have to move the whole movement of the roll? Even if u didn’t want to. Back in 6-7th a skirmish unit could zip around an enemy unit and charge an enemy unit behind as long as at least part of the unit had a clear straight path, can’t do that now anymore? I wouldn’t sleep on chariot especially that they can march now. Back in 8th when chaos chariots were core, the unit was a terrific bully in the meta I was in. The dude running a bunch of chariots, chimeras and some other stuff would regularly win tournaments. Going through the decent save and pretty high toughness kinda makes it hard to take ‘em down before they reach you. Cheap chariots like the goblin one are a decent unit to do the “chasing” when joining a bigger fight they can easily run at the fleeing target and with swift stride have decent chance to catch it. And you don’t worry too much if it ends in a crap place unlike let’s say a black orc unit that was the part of that combat. Restrain with orcs and chase with chariot.