Sram T-Type Transmission - My Thoughts (AXS 2.0?)

[@KA-zq3yp]

The XO with the all black chain, cassette, matched with the beautiful new crank arms look so good. Sold

[@MongoDan]

It is a looker of a group. I will most likely be putting it on one of my bikes over the next year.

[@North3rdMedia]

LIke it. Good concise update of the latest SRAM gear. Interesting as a shimano guy how SRAM or pushing the envelope for durability and service ability.

[@MongoDan]

They have been trading blows lately, the HG+ was a big step in smoothness and forced SRAM to focus on that and shifting underload. I will be curious to see what Shimano comes up with next.

[@GokkunGuru]

Cool innovation but frame manufacturers need to be precise with drop out facing. I kinda prefer having the traditional hanger so I can always adjust the alignment with Abbey Tool's HAG. Under new SRAM Transmission, if your frame is not perfect, shifting will not and you can't fix that with any tools. I like original AXS. The XX1 cassettes are more one piece. Original AXS work with non-boost, boost, super boost, etc. The new Transmission only works on boost and super boost and use a standard DUB MTB WIDE cranks so non-boost frames are out of the question. Also new Transmission won't work on frames without UDH.

[@MongoDan]

Time will tell if direct mount has any issue besides not working on non-boost frames, but it is also worth remembering that the only non-boost frames that also use the udh are road and gravel and would be paired with road cranks that support the narrower chainline. As for frame tolerance, the der is dual located by both the frame and the axle. If the frame is that out of spec the axle will not thread in either and would be obvious even before installing the der. Besides not working on current frames that don't have udh I don't really see a downside (price not being factored in). I have a feeling we will see more and more move over to udh in the next few years. Looks like even Shimano will be joining udh, they just issued a patent request for something very similar but it is hard to if it is an identical mount, but I think it would be foolish to use anything else at this point.

[@MongoDan]

@@Chambers36TheEnter I pretty much agree, but I do have to say, every udh bike I have seen the hanger has always been dead straight. I think a lot of that is due to the axles having to thread through the frame and hanger.

[@MongoDan]

@@beaneater yes, big then the frame will not meet the tolerance standards set by Sram and at a minimum would be considered a manufacture defect. It's not like the axle is going to thread into the hanger properly the der/hanger if the frame was made out of spec. The UDH standard uses a 1mm thread pitch which is going to be the least tolerant of alignment issues.

[@mtbboy1993]

I can't even try this yet, as I have a Geometron G1, the g1's design allows Nicolai to change the RD hanger design. But I won't get this product, I will continue to use Archer D1X, and use a regular mechanical RD. for me the ergonomics of the paddle remote is great for me.But they have a new and lighter Shifter(the black box with a motor in it that shifts the RD) It can be set up on any drivetrain, and works with all speeds, can adjust each gear. But the new shifter as they call it will be even more reliable, waterproofed. Thew battery clicks on, so no more putting batteries in, no magnet needed, no need to lift rear end on the trail if doing so. also works with AXS and Di2 and e bike battery. So if you need to you can do this to bail you out. Great idea IMO. I want to get the new one.

[@MongoDan]

I have looked into the Archer component items a few times, the new shifter looks sweet, but I really dont like der changer unit. Too me it seems more like the worse of both worlds of having the unit and a der at the bike of the bike. Also it ends up being close to the same price of an AXS setup these days.

[@mtbboy1993]

@@MongoDan I've not had problems with it the shifter at chainstay. But I had to send in two shifted for repair. I don't want electronics and battery on the Rd it self, and I can use any Rd if I smash it to bits. I currently use a Shimano m6100 sgs. So that's cheap.

[@MongoDan]

@@mtbboy1993 thanks for the info on the archer items

[@Kaspurr84]

I have a 2021 trail frame with X01 AXS, unfortunately for me its not a UDH design bike. But am I disappointed? Not one bit. I feel my strongest take away from the new t-type is how sram is marketing it, with the push of basically making it seem like the previous gen is now just absolutely worthless which is so far from the truth.. Is the design cool? most definitely 100%. in my 18 years of riding the only hanger issue I've had was actually from a trek fuel ex frame build up I did a few years ago, the frame came with a little box damage that hit the hanger and it was bent out of the box. Never in all my crashes from pushing the limits too hard, to learning how to ride clipless have I had a derailleur or hanger related issue.

[@MongoDan]

I have had only a few issues with der hangers as well, but I also make sure that the bikes I have bought had good der hangers. There have been a lot of crap designs out there that are either very weak or so flexy that it is nearly impossible to tune the rear der properly. UDH solved that by being a robust standard and this drivetrain is what will be the "final" evolution of the system. The current der mounting standard is probably the longest standing standard in the cycling industry. While I like that it didn't keep on changing, I do feel like this is going to be a good innovation in the long run.

[@alexisrodriguez6526]

To be fair I got to see the XXsl yesterday and it's incredible, but the price is the freaking price of a fully built bike! 2k for a groupset, Jesus christ.

[@MongoDan]

Yeah it's not cheap, not none of the bleed edge stuff is. In time we will get a GX version that is cheaper. But it needs to be remembered that the current AXS XX1 was not a lot cheaper at launch.

[@mtbboy1993]

2:09 Actually people have had issues with the chain derailing on Sram rear derailleurs, Aston MTB explained the issues in some of his vids. But basically the issue is, the clutch does not work properly, so the chain derails. Also Sram clutch could not be replaces nor adjusted, so as it wore you could not make it stronger, and replace it once it was worn out. Absurd. I've not tried Sram rds, due to the bad reputation it has.

[@MongoDan]

The clutch issue has been fixed, anyone with a clutch that failed could have it replaced by Sram, granted it would be a new der and not just the part. This new der has a replaceable clutch, though I am with you that I like the adjustable clutch on Shimano ders (and I'm for the most part a Sram guy). The specific problem I was referring to was derailing off the lower pulley on the der. which used to happen on older ders, people people didnt realize it happened due to the "guilds" around the pulley re-railing it, but as a bike mech of the time you would always notice a lot of wear on those guides, modern ders still have those guide, but they normally show little to no wear on them when being maintained.

[@mtbboy1993]

@@MongoDan guilds? Are you sure that's the right word? I don't have a clue ehat you mean.

[@MongoDan]

@@mtbboy1993 it's the metal plate that surround the lower pulley any make sure that the chainstays on the lower pulley. Really old ders didn't have them (think 5 speed) and even on more model ders (7-9 speed) the chain would derail off the lower pulley frequently. Those plates would force that chain back on most of the time, but there were times the chain would get wedge in-between the metal plate and the lower pulley (would sometime happen on the upper pulley as well)

[@mtbboy1993]

​@@MongoDan Not sure what you mean by ''metal plate that surround the lower pulley '' All derailleurs have that, apart from some really old ones don't, that was many decades ago. Maybe you mean the half circle thing at the bottom of the cage? I see some decades old Rds did not have that.

[@MongoDan]

@@mtbboy1993 yes, and even ones with them had the chain derail off the pulley causing issues sometimes. SRAM has, for a long while, designed their derailleurs to move the pulley cage in a way to point it at the front chainring, I believe this started with X9. When they went to 1x they also added a narrow wide lower pulley, both of these items have all but stopped the chain from derailing off the lower pulley.

[@peterfreeman3317]

Just got my XX SL in…build quality look 100x stronger thank my current XX1 AXS derailleur.

[@MongoDan]

Cool to hear real world reports. I will probably get it in time but the stuff I have has a lot of service life left.

[@BennoSattler]

Do you know that RDs used to be mounted to an eyelet directly welded to the drop out? Do you know why the times moved away from that to a replaceable piece of metal called "derailleur hanger"? And as for shifting under load - are you aware that those higher forces on the chain and sprockets will cause quicker deterioration of both parts, needing quicker replacement? I bet the industry does not mind selling spares quicker tho.

[@MongoDan]

I am aware of a lot of cycling history when it comes to design and why those designed changed over time. The hanger used to be part of the dropout due to the frames being steel and being able to be bent back (though I still never liked it). But even in the past they have experimented with different der mounting types and locations, the original Shimano Saint mounted directly to the axle, and SunTour had a der that mounted several inches in front of the dropout. I am sure there are other designs as well. Yes the replaceable der hanger is a sacrificial piece to save the frame. UDH frames and this new der change to a completely different mounting setup, like I said - we will have ot see if there are issues due to the new design, but I have a feeling that we will not as this design is a significantly stronger setup than the old/current hanger mount. Things change with time and normally for the better, todays ders are much stronger than the old ones and the failure rate is WAY lower than it used to be. For shifting underload, there is not any reason that this couldnt be achieved with the right design, heck Shimano beat Sram to the punch with this one. They achieved this but carefully designing the shift gates and chains, just like Sihmano did with their latest mountain drivetrains. Yes a lower load will wear it out slower, but that is true in pretty much ever situation. The new system will not grind at the gear like pervious versions would which is were the damage happens. Srams upper end groups are know for lasting a very long time, I am sure they do not want to loose that notoriety. Once again only time will tell if they got it all right, but Sram and Shimano are not ones to take bold claims lightly. This is a bleeding edge groupset, I am sure there will be small running changes once they find small issues when it come to mass producing the items versus prototypes, but this is true in every industry.