SRB2's Springs are worse than you think

that's a technical foul
#srb2mods #srb2 #srb2k #srb2kart
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[@ziulight]

another thing i hate about springs is not related to vanilla srb2 but how mappers use them. you never know when the springs require additional input or not, i remember in a level i literally had just went through a diagonal spring that didnt require extra input, and then the next one after it did. its annoying

[@smashingstargamer]

one thing to note is that (at least in the Classic Era) there are some blue springs in Knuckles' Chaotix which ironically enough send you the highest

[@zebulan1485]

I suspect that the diagonal spring chains in GFZ2, while perhaps not originally placed with this intention, remain there in the current iterations of the level as a way to train players to avoid touching the analog stick while using diagonal springs. That's certainly the effect they had on me, anyway. It's notable that the first of these diagonal spring chains (or at least the first that new players are likely to encounter) immediately follows a section with upwards springs where manual input is required, subtly demonstrating the differences in how the two are used throughout the vanilla level design. Thankfully, the vanilla level design is consistent with how it treats diagonal springs. If it wasn't, then this would be a much bigger problem (as other commenters have pointed out regarding custom levels).

[@robloxfan23_]

SRB2 has a lot of slipperiness with its controls, physics, and of course, this subject.

[@AyrtonEdwards-bv4fx]

you have not seen how sensitive the mobile controls are. (yes I have a mobile port of SRB2)

[@benjitaysu8379]

as someone who creates maps i can totally agree with the problem of diagonal springs, i some times need to place more springs that i need to in order to make sure that player actuaally hits the springs in order to keep progresing on the level with udmf this is more easier but you can only change the size of the sprite, if you change the size of the object itself it multiplies its potency it would be better if they somehow add new funcionlities to the springs

[@sometf2player752]

2:02 the blue spring isnt exclusive to srb2 as it was also in knuckles chaotix

[@Cyberguy64]

Maybe you could be locked to the spring's movement normally upon hitting it, but if you hit jump or spin or something mid-flight you can break free from the trajectory and do what you want. That way, new players get the intended automation, while experienced players can either choose to ride out the pattern, or regain control to follow their own path.

[@spootymaniacs]

alternatively just add a new spring (the modern spring, using the star design we seen since Sonic Jam/Sonic Adventure

[@justsans.]

I’ve literally never realized this. It’s just come as an instinct to use the springs correctly, but I’ve never realized how much more complicated they are compared to the originals.

[@superplayerex2431]

Agreed, I never had any problems with springs in SRB2 whatsoever, and I'm saying this as someone who's been playing the game on and off for at least 15 years now. They're actually so easy for me that I find it incredibly easy to navigate with them even in levels that I've never played before. Although, to be fair, I've been a massive classic Sonic player since my childhood. I'm probably way too experienced in playing Sonic games for it to be fair to compare myself to any average player.

[@TarregorsSrb2Channel]

one of the things that I love about SRB2 is how much freedom it gives the player to look and move around one of the ways in which this freedom is expressed is by letting players not be in miniature cutscenes whenever they hit a spring chain; you could go off-script if you so choose and know what you're doing it's a pretty minor problem that spring chains are as seemingly-hard as they are to navigate this and a bunch of other factors cause the game to be, well, pretty hard for a 3d sonic game after the first few zones, and I like that the devs(as of then at least) weren't afraid to make this game hard making a flag to prevent player movement after hitting a spring could definitely have its uses, but the existence of such a flag would probably do more harm than good if you really think about it a better solution to this problem would to be to have the tutorial include a spring chain section where it tells you to go limp on the springs

[@evdestroy4121]

I like this idea

[@superplayerex2431]

Another thing they should do is maybe get rid of the auto-brake option, or at least toggle it off by default. It makes it so that if you don't touch your controls, your character will automatically slow-down/brake. That function works regardless if you are on the ground or in mid-air, so it often results in you missing the spring chain even if you go limp on your controls. I always have to tell new players to disable it because of that.

[@Lover_of_ebrietas]

Never cook again

[@isaboll1]

I think one way of addressing the spring issue, rather than having a flag to change the spring properties with respect to input, is to simple include a second set of springs as official objects, which work as springs which lock movement. These "special springs" can simply have the same design as the ones included in the modern sonic games, with the colors of the srb2 springs corresponding with the colors used for the "modern"-like designed springs. Isolating the control lock to a special set of springs i think works better since it actually communicates to the player what'll happen when they bounce on the spring. The difference in how the spring looks, tells players in a subtle way whether they can move around while bouncing, or wether it'll lock the directions. Having springs which maintain the movement property is cool when it comes to levels which use that aspect as a proper challenge (like creating a challenge for players to manually move from spring to spring to reach a higher section of level, or if not they'll go to the lower section, as an example). At the same time, it is definitely a problem if the level is using springs intended only as a setpiece, yet player movement gets in the way of that. Them being separate types indicated by the design used communicates the circumstances properly to players, without needing tutorials or anything like that.

[@joe_mama__]

Great video! As a beginner to SRB2 I surprisingly didn't have that many issues with the springs as Greenflower Zone already taught to not hold the analog stick in any direction when interacting with diagonal springs and that works 80% of the time in SRB2's campaign. Fully automating them would also denies depth from spring platforming. In my opinion, locking player's inputs for a second after touching a diagonal spring would a good compromise because of the sudden camera change that diagonal springs trigger can easily disorient a new player. I have to agree on spring collision, their hitbox should be at least twice as big as their sprite/model because I'm not a fan of just putting a big row of springs. It looks kinda spammy to me. Their bigger size would also improve the pacing of the first playthrough as now the player wouldn't have to be so precise with landing on them. I also love how vertical springs maintain your speed. It's a little thing but it adds so much more depth to springs. It's also fun to just spindash into them!

[@gangstasonic97573]

The springs in SRB2 feel really slippery to me.

[@pumpkintron8969]

Heres a fun fact : In sonic dash mobile game there is an optional decoration you can buy that is a Green spring It doesn't have any porpuse nor does anything special, but its a thing alright ? 🤷‍♂️

[@risingrevolt]

Keep at it! Your reviews are improving a ton!

[@danyo5786]

Im loving the Saturn 3D Blast music in these videos man

[@baguettetheweirdguy2529]

I actually like that there aren't any side collision for springs, it allows you to do some fun stuff with spindashing

[@GrayFoxHound9]

Springs also may break with possible momentum update Because i know for sure that modded characters with different physics are often launched much lower and further with diagonal springs, so change to SRB2 core movement can bring some chaos into the mix as well

[@suroguner]

You got me thinking. I may just experiment with making some custom solid on the side springs.

[@cullbear55]

I think there should be two types of diagonal springs. Ones that lock input for automation, and ones that don't lock so that way there can be alternate places you can end up if that's what the map designers wish. It could be like a sub-type or something in the code, so that way, they still visually look the same. Or make them specially colored, idk. Or maybe the SA1 jump pads could be introduced? I'm just spit balling ideas about how both could coexist. Since locking input during all diagonal springs would remove that extra layer of gameplay.

[@BomberBlur07]

I mostly disagree with this one but you do NOT deserve the death threats

[@futureson122]

Agreed. The high crawla jump trick is better and more cooler

[@sebvac]

I can see your point. It is definitely a bit unfair for new players.

[@God-xd1wr]

I actually like it, SRB2 lends you a lot of midair control and that forces you to really consider your movement. You have to be fast and smart which I find really engaging.

[@reddead__]

You are the first person i see on youtube actually criticizing the game and developers, which is really awesome to see

[@ABlob]

As someone who only ever plays 3D platformers with a controller, yeah: 1) change the springs to be like the official 3D Sonic games (have variables for how far Sonic will fly in a straight line, how long player control should be locked and how fast a spring should be; optional variable: a target where the spring should point and fly Sonic to), 2) replace the thok with the homing attack, I don't see myself ever using the thok accurately with a controller at all (*unless you could slow down time whenever I'd want to use a thok, so I can actually aim accurately... or have some gyroscope controls for it), 3) redo the camera system for controllers so that I can actually control it like a 3D Sonic game, 4) have a way to make Sonic land more precisely in 3D, because I literally can't control him to stop on small platforms when he's at moving around (see the final few levels where there are precise platforms that are impossible to be precise with on a controller). I know this game was made before Sonic Adventure released internationally, but it's also 2024 now and Robo Blast 2 already changed a lot since then anyways.

[@coriandercastor9453]

This is the content I subscribed for.

[@TintFrenzy]

I love seeing someone make a video criticizing about SRB2, more people should do that

[@mober7430]

?

[@Drexthefennecfox]

You probably hate the game Yeah ur getting a dislike

[@Drexthefennecfox]

Btw ur getting coal for Christmas too bud Ur so done

[@TintFrenzy]

@@Drexthefennecfox I don’t hate the game bucko, I do appreciate criticism for the game though as it does have problems. Also btw, Santa isn’t real

[@Drexthefennecfox]

I know these replies are annoying you But I fucking HATE the thok

[@jexusdomel5194]

actually, the fact you can move when launched from springs in one of my favourite difference between srb2 and other sonic games. it gives a ton of freedom with how you use them, and theres many places where you can very deliberately use it to your advantage, however you can follow literally every spring's normal trajectory by just not moving, which is a caveat for most automation in most 3d sonic games anyway, seems like a pretty sensible decision for a fangame of those games

[@familyguyfunnymoments9952]

Springs as they are awesome, simple, and lead to some really cool movement tricks. Just only need some way to communicate no not hold buttons when on one unless you know what you are doing. Perhaps just have that mentioned in the already existing tutorial.

[@GodittoC]

cool video, and very informative too

[@NIMPAK1]

Diagonal springs probably shouldn't lock your trajectory, but you shouldn't be able to move even more forward after you're already being propelled forward, at least to such an intense degree. Honestly, I feel like air movement in SRB2 in general is pretty jank. It's admittedly pretty satisfying being able to skillfully turn tight corners while zooming through the air, but the lack of any air drag makes it hard to control and makes you feel like a leaf blowing in the wind.

[@prosuperstar2617]

I experience all this in part thanks to the controls, camera, and physics in the android port

[@_TheSami_]

I miss these types of videos, i need more of those on srb2 pls

[@ry_yan1955]

never had issues with them, but it's interesting to see how others struggle with it. kinda just muscle memory to me atp

[@MintyTheGloop]

My friend strugggled in act 2 of the first zone because of the 3 spring segments in SRB2

[@sometf2player752]

4:41 yeah thats pretty annoying however it seems in the latest version of srb2 you can resize objects like springs so atleast theres that

[@grapplesauce9939]

See I get why they allowed movement while hitting diagonal springs, that type of automation is sometimes a little jarring when it comes to moving fast in such an open Sonic Game. You hit the spring then it’s just a “let the game play itself” before you can move again. The best use I found for those types of springs is to use that freedom of movement to *skip* certain sections. Heres some examples that I find most useful when playing. All these skips are assuming you’re playing as Sonic: The first spring in Greenflower act 2 at 3:45 where you mentioned the spring chain being slightly tricky due to wanting to hold a button, the first spring can be used to skip the second spring in the chain by steering towards the ledge. There’s a red spring used in one of the big areas in Red Volcano, that leads to a small platforming section *just* before the entrance to the ball rolling section (If you know it, you know it). You can use the freedom of movement to inch to the second to last, or even the *very* last platform. Skipping most of the platforming involved. In Arid Canyon act 1, the red springs at 3:15 can be used to drift to the pillars on the left, with a tricky second jump to the angled pillar you can nab the wind barrier on the ledge just ahead. Letting you skip a lot of platforming, and even letting you take a flying characters only segment towards the end of the level as Sonic (on the small bridge after the huge ramp jump). And finally, another bigger one; in Castle Eggman Act 2, you’ll hit the fountain area with the alternative paths, taking the left doorway up the trap filled staircase leads you to a big platforming area. Hit the springs on the first pillar under you when entering via the diagonal springs. You can land *right* under the window you need to enter to progress, all you need to do is do a spindash jump up the slope, and Air Thok until you hit the springs leading you in. Though the springs at first seem a little off in how they function, the ability to *move* while taking the height from a spring actually helps in terms of player creativity. Follow the given path, or say screw it and make your own. Which I really appreciate SRB2 doing. Great video btw, especially because SRB2 is a fantastic fan game and needs more coverage.

[@aguyintheinternet6733]

Spitballing here but maybe adding a different type of spring that completely locks your movement and momentum when used can potentially fix issues relating to spring chains (springs themselves dont have a set distance they can fling you, developers can make that whatever they want, so if they want to fling you really high in the air then they can make the spring do that) Not exactly the most elegant solution and i can see certain levels lose some fluidity if my idea where to be inplemented but hey its something (i have no idea if this would be very hard to implement into the game)

[@hyperon_ion9423]

A sort of shorthand I’ve come to follow (and I think Sonic Team uses this idea as well) is that the more modern, rounded design of springs in newer Sonic games are more automated and remove the player’s control, where as the classic, flatter springs follow the traditional system of letting the player control their movement. If the SRB2 devs used this idea and just had a like “star” version of springs, they could be a much more automated version of springs, maybe even let level designers control the trajectory of them a lot more than normal springs do.

[@GrayvyFellow]

I've never really come to think of this issue, though that may be due to how I've adapted to the game compared to how most people may actually play. For as much as these issues are pretty big plagues on the springs... I actually like some of the quirks associated with them? In particular a lot of it stems from carrying speed from when you go on regular springs as well as the boost in verticality that you get from bouncing from a spring from underwater to launch further up from the surface. Definitely quirky though when thinking about how other characters can interact with them. Base character Amy can definitely fling too far if you get too happy using her hammer to go off of springs and some custom characters do have issues with some springs that try to be automated.

[@dragondelsur5156]

As an Amy player, I can confirm hitting springs is freaking useless, because there's next to no oportunity to use that ability, you run into them before you could hit them.

[@marx4538]

Actually, blue springs originate from Chaotix. I know for sure there is one in Speed Slider 5, for example.

[@EWOODJ]

1:01 Yeah yeah, we get it.

[@prosuperstar2617]

Shh, he is hyperfocusing.

[@darkkirby714]

How about a green stripe on the lock springs to identify them from normal ones

[@spikerthedragonbear]

What if there were Brass springs that lock your movement for a second and blue springs that give you Sonic Chaos ability to Spin in mid air

[@speedtracker9556]

I never thought that they were worse.

[@xamp_exclammark]

I know Knuckles Chaotix isnt considered amongst the classic Sonic games but SRB2 might have gotten its spring collision rules from that game,not even other 2D Sonics do it,just Chaotix for some reason

[@CrozyOMD]

SRB2 Springs ain't springs they are springtraps 😭

[@dashthehedgehog276]

Well what about the springs working underwater in both srb2 and in the classic games?

[@SRanked-oc3vp]

4:55 Literally any PVP mode sucks if you're forced to use a spring.

[@dontbecomelgbt]

Hot take : this is my least favorite 3d sonic game

[@RaiginAnimator]

Me too kinda

[@kishaluv3j]

New video let's go

[@ikagura]

There's a reason why Modern Sonic (starting from Adventure) made springs act different (and are much bigger than Classic's). Directional input during automated spring sections is just not good. Stop touching controls is bad game design.

[@michaeltrys2game]

god is this whole game just one big technical foul

[@DonnyKirkMusic]

its kinda just a mod of doom. but they pushed that idea to its limits, i feel. but i would love if they had the resources to do an entire rewrite in a different engine

[@yousefslimani99]

Also yeah you're right! I also noticed about these springs are a pain on this game despite how awful the spring physics are in this fan game! but it's not a terrible game, even with mods it plays great.

[@insanefreddyalt7897]

I think the blue springs came from the sonic 1 8-bit or 2 8-bit special stages

[@noww446]

No they came from knuckles chaotix

[@CodeHK]

I think the springs should be bigger. Sonic Adventure 2 springs were massive if you looked at them up close. It also made it easier to see them from afar.

[@diskpoppy]

when it come to ringslinger, there are launchpads in quake 3 arena that act in a very similar fashion to srb2's springs. the issue in srb2 is that in ctf they are often placed right before flags, which produces a lot of tension which is good, but that also produces an even bigger skill gap as it's basically a guaranteed hit when playing vs skilled players, and when it's not a stomp, it's usually a stalemate. as for other issues with springs: i prefer player agency over automated springs, the air movement controls/feedback during being launched by them could stand to be tweaked, but your solution of adding a flag is awful, creating even more inconsistency you are also pretty inconsistent with srb2 criticism in general, and it's an example why devs don't listen to the playerbase, especially when it comes to the armchair dev solutions good thing srb2 is open source and mod-friendly so those things can be easily tweaked, and if you think you'd design something better then showcase it... but most of those things were already experimented with, because that's what devs do, but a lot of those solutions are either not worth it or don't provide much benefit over downsides (and the fact that players will then complain about changes)

[@shatteredrubyheart9082]

The only problem I have when it comes down to the camera is the fact you can't just use your mouse to look up and down and instead you have to use two buttons on your keyboard for example I have up as E and down as Q but I don't really use it because it is just fucking annoying they need to just remove that shit and have the mouse do all of that like it is built off the Doom engine and people have already made it to where you can look up and down via GZ Doom and all of that stuff so it is just laziness in the end really

[@yousefslimani99]

IDK, everytime I play sonic robo blast 2, it gave's me motion sickness immediately! maybe 2.5D games aren't for me.

[@teaoftraffic]

can’t wait until this man rants about how stop n go fang’s gameplay is

[@americaonline3835]

MOM I'M ON TV!!!!!!

[@gusdotd894]

A new video.

[@SonicRusD]

Waddahell with almost everyone its easy they dont send you in space or not in correct place all these times people pressing buttons just dont press them

[@TreyBecauseWhyNot]

Boing

[@TETANUS.]

Boing

[@MrgamerstyleTURJO]

Should have said no good

[@user-hr5qp1zt6m]

Lisp

[@greenhillnerdnew8148]

aight, so, ignoring the ringslinger part because im not a multiplayer eathen, but i disagree with you on every single one of these issues. 1- springs, even digagonal ones, being influeced by the direction your holding is fine. you could argue that the first few examples of them in gfz1 should have a difficulty curve,to let players "get" what they are doing wrong, but even without that, they are perfectly acceptable. the game doesnt need to coddle you to the point of locking your movement, if you want spring jesus to take the wheel, you can choose to stop holding things, and if you dont know thats a mechanic, falling down and trying again is about as good a teacher as you can make without potentially veering into over engeneering. 2-srb2 making use of advance 2 springs is great, actually. not having to loose speed by jumping into them is a feature, not a bug, the sense of flow it provides is a really cool aspect of the players interaction with them,and if a level designer wants players to be more pensive about jumping on a spring, they can just place it on a platform to replicate the classics limitation. 3- the size is relatively smalller when compared to the classics, youre right, but that difference encourages a greater level of percision from the player, it ends up making otherwise automated moments more involved, and you can always place more springs in an area to ensure bouncy goodness even for players that cant aim. overall, i agree with the sentiment of the springs in srb2 not being exactly beginner friendly, they have a learning curve, they raise the relative skill floor and ceiling at the cost of being immieadetely comfortable for newbies, but you have yourself championed this design philosophy with the thok..so idk what your problem is here.

[@AverageGuy-dm6kl]

ITS NOT THAT BAD BRO USE MODS!!!!!!!!

[@elohimbaptiste134]

I like the no spring collision in srb2 I think it should stay

[@cowgaming7186]

sounds like a skill issue to me

[@BomberBlur07]

True, for someone accustomed more to SRB2 than actual classic Sonic games SRB2 feels a lot lighter and better to control to me, and springs feel fine as well