SSPX vs. The Saints - Nov 15 - Homily - Fr Terrance

Fr Terrance gives the homily at Bloomington, IN, on Nov 15, 2022, on how the admonitions of the Church in Sardis and Laodicea in the book of Revelation and in the Gospel apply to the SSPX of Lefebvre and whether they are in schism or not.
Canon 751 - Schism is rejecting the pope's authority in practice even if they say they respect him - www.vatican.va...
and rejecting the authority local bishop, setting up a parallel church
St. Ignatius and his letters regarding bishops apply
John Salza - Divine law requires - • John Salza on the SSPX
1 - refuse submission to the pontiff
2 - refuse the external form of submission
3 - set up their own tribunals overriding the authority
They set up a parallel church, with bishops, seminaries, and tribunals, thus not in the Church, and this is precisely the opposite of what the saints did.
Popes have called them schismatic:
JPII - Apostolic Letter “Ecclesia Dei Adflicta” of 1988 paragraphs 3, 4 and 5c - it is a schism and should not be supported in any way - www.vatican.va...
Pope Francis - letter that accompanied the Motu Proprio “Traditionis Custodes" - "motivated by the desire to foster the healing of the schism w/ the movement of Mons. Lefebvre.” - www.vatican.va...
Other letters
To deny that they are in schism is to fall into the same word games as the modernists.
Lifting the excommunications did not take away the schism any more than lifting the excommunication of the Easter Orthodox bishops does not heal that one.
Impatience displayed by their disobedience is a refusal to suffer in the footsteps of Christ.
Saints are always obedient. Schism is false reform. True reform is to stay in the Church and become saints.
Links relating to this subject:
Ecco il verbale segreto dell’incontro fra Paolo VI e Lefebvre - La Stamp - True or False Pope: Lefebvre Letters - www.lastampa.i...
True or False, Lefebve - www.trueorfalse...
Ecclesia Dei (July 2, 1988) | John Paul II (vatican.va) - www.vatican.va...
Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church concerning the remission of the excommunication of the four Bishops consecrated by Archbishop Lefebvre (March 10, 2009) | BENEDICT XVI (vatican.va) - www.vatican.va...
Letter of the Holy Father to the Bishops of the whole world, that accompanies the Apostolic Letter Motu Proprio data “Traditionis custodes” (16 July 2021) | Francis (vatican.va) - www.vatican.va...
Ave Maria!
Mass: St. Albert the Great - Opt Mem
Readings: Tuesday in the 33rd Week in Ordinary Time - usccb.org/bible...
1st: rev 3:1-6, 14-22
Resp: psa 15:2-5
Gsp: luk 19:1-10
More on the Readings: airmaria.com/r...
Also on Facebook: fb.watch/gPuKq...
Ave Maria!
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[@ChaChaDancin]

“You’re not the one who saves the Church. The Church saves you.” Beautiful and true. Thank you Father.

[@gruntpadre5337]

The devil works in both extremes. May the Sacred Heart of Jesus purify those on the extreme right, and the Immaculate Heart of Mary for those on the left. Thank you, Father. May Our Lady continue to support you. God bless.

[@Restless318]

THANK YOU FATHER GOD BLESS YOU

[@lorrainebrown7099]

Thank you Fr. Terrance for speaking THE TRUTH. GOD BLESS YOU

[@mazikode]

Thank you Fr Terrance...your homily is a powerful reminder our Catholic church is Holy and from Jesus. God bless you and all the Fransiscans.

[@in5560]

Wow Fr thank you for this clear message, there are too many Reactionaries online trying to save the church when they are only serving their pride and ego in the process. Jesus said follow me for I am the truth and the way. His way is via sainthood and all other ways are just mere distractions.

[@zoeynorman6563]

Thank you so much Father for such clear teaching! My husband and I converted from protestantism & shortly after nearly fell for the sspx. We are so thankful to be in communion with Christs Holy Catholic Church!

[@jared5329]

Pope St. Paul VI, pray for us. Pope St. John Paul II, pray for us. St. Joseph, Patron of the Church, pray for us. Holy Mary, Mother of the Church, pray for us.

[@jodieelizabeth4905]

Amen 🙏

[@Cadpat07]

Thank you for speaking about this and making it clear for the faithful. There are a few KZbin Catholic podcasters that are leading the faithful astray with their support of the sspx.

[@jacquelineharrod6386]

As a long time convert, l have been fortunate never to be attracted to those who attack the Holy Father, and consider themselves superior to those who stick to the truth. Thank you for this homily.

[@cindyc6328]

Thank you for the Truth

[@MazerRackhamX]

Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you!

[@Myohomoto]

Be like St. Padre Pio..obedience!

[@jodieelizabeth4905]

Amen 🙏

[@johndoyle3076]

Bravo Fr!! Thank you

[@linakoh4206]

Thank you Father Terrance well said and thank you for explaining this .. my prayers from afar for you Father Terence, Fathers and dear Brothers, for graces virtue and wisdom 🕊️🌹🌹🌹

[@halleylujah247]

This was beautiful and informative thank you.

[@ciaranclancy3296]

Thanks Fr Terrance for talking about this , you won't be popular for it but remember Our Lords famous word's, "if the world hates you remember it hated Me first", ( or to that effect) , now isn't that something to joyous about 😊 , May God Bless & keep you Fr Terrance and Thanks be to God 🙏 & you too Fr Terrance 👍 🇮🇪 ☘️

[@angier.4826]

First, thank you to Fr Terrance for sure, courageous Fr Terrance, clear and relevant, willing and fit to take on the extreme business of snatching souls away from the snares of the trendy one. Next, Ciaran, I continue to love your comments, it's a winning combination when wisdom meets humor. You are such a bright light, keep shining and lifting up the spirit. May God boldly and mightily arm and protect Fr Terrance and all the brave friars that are ready to defend the Church and be hated after Jesus (a joyous plan indeed).

[@jodieelizabeth4905]

@@angier.4826 amen 🙏

[@ciaranclancy3296]

@@angier.4826 Thanks Angie & God Bless you too my dear 🙏 🌹

[@LesIsMoreFilms]

Thank you Father for this homily! This is such an important message for the laity to hear. God love you!

[@HellaValley]

Thank you dear father. I've been going back n forth on the SSPX for a while lately. But I do believe they hold some valid concerns which I think the conciliar church is too prideful to recognize. The same could be said of the trads. But yes, you're right. You STAY in the church and knawl it out! I think I might put my Angelus press prayerbooks in a box...but they're so good! Lol

[@tonyalongi4409]

Midwest Theological Forum has some really top-notch prayerbooks! I highly recommend them.

[@javaman8895]

Christian Warfare has an examination of conscience where it asks if you’ve attended the new mass under the third commandment. Really? It’s sinful, maybe mortal? Really!?! What??!?

[@lydiapereira1942]

Thank you Fr Terrance.May God Bless you always.

[@thelogosproject7]

Great homily. Thank you Father.

[@franciscanfriars]

Glad you enjoyed it. God bless at everyone at the Logos Project and all you do. - Friar Roderic

[@laimmaculata777]

As a disclaimer, I’ve never been to the SSPX. I’m just confused because wasn’t St. Athanasius excommunicated from the church during the Arian crisis? It also seems that he was part of a kind of parallel or “underground” church, which most of the Bishops opposed because the vast majority (correct me if I’m wrong) apparently adhered to the Arian heresy. The saint is quoted saying “It is a fact that they have the premises - but you have the Apostolic Faith. They can occupy our churches, but they are outside the true Faith. You remain outside the places of worship, but the Faith dwells within you. Let us consider: what is more important, the place or the Faith? The true Faith, obviously. Who has lost and who has won in the struggle - the one who keeps the premises or the one who keeps the Faith?” How do we reconcile this? I’m not trying to question or challenge anyone, but it’s just genuinely confusing

[@franciscanfriars]

It is confusing, but the Pope was always on the side of Athanasius and this is not so much a matter of heresy (although there are doctrinal issues) as it is a refusal to obey the Pope, which makes it schism, and something antithetical to sanctity. This is the main point of the homily. I hope this helps - Friar Roderic

[@fr.terrancechartier601]

We'll talk about St. Athanasius in tomorrow's homily. Thanks & God bless!

[@laimmaculata777]

@@franciscanfriars thank you! I had no idea this was the case, and it really helps shed some clarity on the context:)

[@josephlaidaban4063]

🙏😇♥️🙏

[@bradyandjodi1]

Honest question. I really am seeking truth here and not trying to be argumentative. I’ve never been to an SSPX chapel, so I have no vested interest in them not being in schism (except that I want everyone to be in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church founded by Our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ). Question: the Holy Father granted faculties to SSPX priests to hear confessions, and also offer nuptial Masses. So how can that be? These men either share in the priesthood of Jesus Christ, or they don’t. They are either in communion with the Church or they aren’t (there’s no “partial communion, is there?). These things can’t be turned on and off arbitrarily, can they? Perhaps you’ll be addressing these issues in the coming homilies. I can be patient. 😊 Thank you for this series. I look forward to watching the rest. God bless you! Also, it really is hard to want to be in communion with the Holy Father who wants to do away with the TLM. He’s supposed to be our shepherd and the guardian of Sacred Tradition, and yet he wants to end the TLM. I pray for Pope Francis every day in my morning offering and my rosary. No child wants his father to do poorly, he wants him to succeed! I want our Holy Father to go to heaven someday. But I feel spiritually abused by him. It’s painful.

[@franciscanfriars]

The granting of faculties were covered in the homily. They were granted to help heal the schism not to declare that the schism is over. You can go to the Eastern Orthodox for the sacraments under certain circumstances, but this does not mean that the schism with the eastern churches is over. The Pope is not asking the SSSPX to give up the TLM and although restricted is allowed in places like the FSSP and other chapels and has done more reach out to the SSPX than perhaps even BXVI. God bless - Friar Roderic

[@jodieelizabeth4905]

Amen 🙏

[@thecatholicman]

I’m friendly with the SSPX and have gone to mass with them (when mass here was banned in our diocese) . I must say the homily was excellent and we must be united as Catholics. It’s hard for Catholics at the moment, esp when we see Bishops publishing prayers for same sex blessings. If we had a couple of priests like the priest in this video in Ireland then things would be different.

[@buscandoelcatolicismo]

Sweet

[@OurLadysTheology]

I agree with this, but at the same time I love the Traditional Latin Mass. I don’t think limiting it is the best solution. Lefebvre was a schismatic however I also understand peoples’ urge to worship in older rites of the Mass in communion with the Bishop. This is why there was Ecclesia Dei and Summorum Pontifficum.

[@pinesap34]

Based Ultramontanist moment, thank you Father and God bless and keep you

[@F2222m]

Great job Father 👏

[@Nicole-uq2ul]

I pray for the Pope, but what are the faithful to do when hee says things against basic Catholic doctrine? Also, when he refuses to answer questions? Clarity would be nice.

[@franciscanfriars]

Nicole, I too wish he was more clear. Here is a talk by Michael Lofton on how he has dealt with this and how we can still criticize when needed and if done charitably and in moderation: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYDTq2SPgruMfMU He has many videos on specific hard to understand things that Pope Francis has said: kzbin.infosearch?query=francis Also I recommend the Logos Project that has many videos on these subjects: kzbin.info/door/Qs2l7SX2W9gsT9scz4kbxw I hope this helps - Friar Roderic

[@Nicole-uq2ul]

@@franciscanfriars thank you for your links. I will look into them. I know that it is hard for all of us, especially consecrated souls. I keep all of you in my daily prayers 🙏

[@ChaChaDancin]

The pope is a flawed human being like all of us. He has his opinions and makes mistakes like all of us. This does not change the fact that God has appointed him to lead the Church. Keep praying for him and all the leaders of the church. I do too.

[@fr.terrancechartier601]

Regarding John Salza's past, I think that one thing we have to realize, Nicole, is that people can change - God still converts people. If He converted Saul of Tarsus, He can convert big sinners nowadays as well; that means that their past might be very bad, but through repentance, they can change. As far as I can tell, Mr. Salza's getting his info from Church teaching & from the Magisterium ... & it squares w/ what the Popes have said regarding Archbishop Lefebrve & the SSPX. People can change; I don't know him very well, but let's pray for him. Regarding Pope Francis, I think it's wise for us to simply pray for him as well & trust that the Lord is still guiding His Church. For my part, the less "Church news" I take in, the better place I'm in, spiritually. I know that from experience. God bless!

[@Nicole-uq2ul]

@@fr.terrancechartier601 I agree. I don't watch Church Militant anymore. I watch Franciscanfriars daily and many days listen to your Latin Rosary when I can't keep focused on my own. I love it! I think you are all wonderful and I learn a lot. I'm just leary to take advice from such a high ranking member of that group. I hope that he has converted. I have no interest in SSPX, but I worry about the Pope. He might lead many into grave danger. Thank you for taking the time to hear my concerns. Many prayers and thanks to you all. 🙏

[@Steve-jl2wi]

Thank you Father. When my friend here during pandemic that i can attend sspx i told him i don't want to attend a Rebel church.

[@imeldatobin7243]

Father, are you saying (in a previous sermon) that babies who were baptized by SSPX priests have not been "received into the Catholic Church"? All the SSPX attendees I know have large families. Their children receive their frst Sacraments in the church (SSPX). Are all their Holy Communions sacrilegious and all other Sacraments illicit? This is very alarming as it involves thousands of people believe they are living devout Catholic lives.Please comment. Father. Thank you.

[@fr.terrancechartier601]

It's a good question. From what I understand, people who are baptized or confirmed in the SSPX, if they repent & return to full communion w/ the Catholic Church, need to re-make their profession of faith. The Profession of Faith of JP2 in 1989 is rejected by the SSPX. It's probably best to ask the question to people in the chancelleries who have dealt w/ these situations & how they've been handled by the Church. I know that, until 2016, all confessions of the SSPX were invalid - meaning that people who confessed to them did not have their sins forgiven. Except for confession [&, at times, matrimony], all of their other sacraments are illicit & therefore sinful. And yes, the SSPX does tend to recruit large, young families, so the question of how people are received into full communion w/ the Church is an important one. God bless!

[@imeldatobin7243]

@@fr.terrancechartier601 Thank you for your response, Father. I find it overwhelming because I sent my now adult children to a SSPX school to expose them to Catholic teaching when the Catholic schools were becoming secular. I did stress to them that the SSPX did not have the monopoly on Catholicism . Of course they would have attended the Sacraments regularly in good faith while they were in school.To hear their Confessions ( and my own) were invalid , is shocking.

[@desmondhutchinson6095]

🙏 Thank you Father!

[@joanpiasio5350]

Thank you Father. So the question I have is Pope Francis a heretic? Is it possible for a Pope to teach heresy and are we required to follow those teachings?

[@JhonsenSales]

SSPX retains the TLM. Is there a problem in retaining the Traditional Latin Mass? It is the mass of all ages, the mass of the saints.

[@franciscanfriars]

The Vatican is not asking the SSPX to give up the TLM, not even in the new restrictions elsewhere in the Church. God bless - Friar Roderic

[@ChaChaDancin]

No, there is not a problem in retaining the TLM. There is a problem in rejecting the leadership of the Pope and attacking the Church.

[@larryhicks4203]

Wrong!

[@monicamohan4720]

If the SSPX must offer the NO Mass even once as part of any agreement, I would totally understand them not being able to do that in good conscience. I do not have an opinion on this subject, but listen to both sides. I attend the TLM, but not the SSPX.

[@franciscanfriars]

I think you are right in that it would not work and they would object on the grounds of conscience, but that demonstrates that they either think the Novus Ordo is invalid or have lots of pride. Either way it is tragic. - Friar Roderic

[@fr.terrancechartier601]

In that case, the conscience would not be a "good conscience" - it would be an erroneous one. If I, as a RC priest, refuse to celebrate the NO Mass, then I have to ask myself: "Did I became a priest b/c I want to do my own will & serve whom I want to serve & how I want to serve them, or did I become a priest to do God's will & to serve whom He wants me to serve & how He wants me to serve them?" Plus, I don't remember the document or the Congregation that issued it, but I remember that the Vatican, after B16's Motu Proprio, said that people could not attend the TLM if it was because they despised the NO Mass or believed it was evil or invalid. God bless!

[@Bob.W.]

Other prelates have said the SSPX is not in schism, but canonically irregular. Bishop Schneider and Cardinal Burke come to mind. Schneider was appointed one of the visitors to dialogue with the SSPX so he knows more than this channel gives him credit for. Salsa is not a theologian and attended SSPX. This gets confusing. I don't listen to the traditionalists on the issue, but it would be good to know what the present status is, not what it was in JP2's time. Be aware that I do not attend SSPX services.

[@fr.terrancechartier601]

I agree, Bob, it gets confusing. The problem w/ Bishop Schneider is that he's basically giving people a green light to attend the SSPX & that's clearly against what the Church has said. The archdiocese where I'm at specifically said that the faithful cannot attend those Masses & people are going there b/c they think they have the blessing of Bishop Schneider, who's not even their bishop! Schneider, from what little I've seen, is acting more like an SSPX apologist than a Catholic bishop & he's adding even more confusion to the issue ... and, just to add to the confusion, Cardinal Burke & Cardinal Muller have said in the not-to-distant past that the SSPX actually is in schism! God bless!

[@Bob.W.]

@@fr.terrancechartier601 I agree that we have to obey our Ordinary. My bishop is Robert Barron. I am going to ask him. Thanks.

[@franciscanfriars]

There are no clear statements on their status because the Vatican is trying to be ecumenical with them and focus on the similarities and avoiding such things as the word schism. But Francis, Burke, and Mueller have called them schismatic, and everyone needs to know how dangerous that is and how dangerous their mentality is and stay away. Many people are getting sucked into this group and are being lost to the Church, people who are otherwise VERY good Catholics. This is not the time to water things down. There is a distinction to be made between "de facto" schismatic - (which is how Fr. Terrance argues all his homilies on this subject) and "de iure" schismatic. "De iure" means that there's been a formally declared schism; that's not the case with the SSPX, as Archbishop Pozzo pointed out in 2018 (sspx.org/en/news-events/news/neither-schismatic-nor-excommunicated-abp-pozzo-fr-jean-michel-gleize-40262 ). But the "de facto" schism is clear. That being said, Pope Francis did call the situation a schism in the letter that accompanied the Motu Proprio “Traditionis Custodes" - where he describes Pope Benedict’s opening of the access to the TLM as being "motivated by the desire to foster the healing of the *schism* w/ the movement of Mons. Lefebvre.” - www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/letters/2021/documents/20210716-lettera-vescovi-liturgia.html . So Francis is saying that Benedict also thought the SSPX was in schism. And since Traditionis Custodes is all about repealing that permission given by Benedict, then it is clear that the pope knows that the schism is not healed and, instead, has gotten worse to the point of having to take drastic action. Francis’ use of schism is mentioned in the video, so you may want to view it again. Also, Cardinal Burke directly calls them schismatic in 2017: www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/cdl-burke-sspx-in-schism He says, “The canonical excommunication of the bishops for their illegal ordinations was revoked, but a *de facto* sacramental excommunication remains for their schism; they put themselves out of communion with the Church.” emphasis added Also, Cardinal Mueller in 2013, then head of the CDF, said that the SSPX is in schism: www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=20046 The Vatican has made many ecumenical gestures to the SSPX, offering them full communion and a personal prelature, and giving them limited faculties and none of it brought them any closer to unity. In fact, they point to all these gestures as evidence that they are really quite good and that the schism is over, as you yourself are suggesting. It is rather ironic that a group that has made so much noise about how bad Vatican II is for its vagueness , ecumenism and not calling people to task is now hiding under Pope Francis's vague ecumenical language and gestures to avoid being called out on their flagrant disobedience. Duplicitous and despicable are words that come to my mind. We in the FFI have been through this, have experienced a real crypto-Lefebvre spirit infiltrate our order, tear it apart, leading to commissioning under the Vatican. We know what the dangers are. We have seen several families get pulled away from our own local communities. Vagueness and diplomatic language are very important for high-level Vatican and SSPX dialogue. But down here in the trenches, we need to be very clear for the sake of the faithful. God bless - Friar Roderic

[@Bob.W.]

@@franciscanfriars thank you for the lengthy reply. I was not stating they were not in schism, just pointing out that others have said they weren't, specifically Bishop Schneider in a recent interview. FWIW I don't take advice from lay youtubers, but I do listen to bishops and Church theologians. So, Mr. Salsa's opinions carry the same weight as, for example, Taylor Marshall or Kennedy Hall - None. I should add that I submit to the authority of my bishop and stay Catholic in spite of the many perverted and corrupt clergy who have brought all this down upon us. Submission to authority may be required but I and many others will not be silent about all the rot. I realize that this is off topic but understand why Catholics would want to find a place where holiness is at least a thing to be desired. Of course now the SSPX is having their own scandals. Again, thanks.

[@franciscanfriars]

Great, Bob. The scandals in the hierarchy and wanting to find refuge from all that are indeed part of the dynamic. On a positive note, most of the crimes were perpetrated in the seventies and eighties and there has been tremendous progress since. The exposes by the media are woefully late and ignore the progress made which are unprecedented, at least in the US. Yes, obedience and prayer and penance are the answer. God bless. - Friar Roderic

[@JorgeFragelas]

Bishop Snyder on a interview with Raymond arroyo on EWTN clearly said that the SSPX is not In schism so who is WRIGHT what you saying here or the bishop. You could see the video. All this is very confusing

[@franciscanfriars]

Thanks for the comment, Jorge. Bishop Snyder is not an authority in this matter. He is only an auxiliary bishop, not even a ordinary bishop, in Kazakhstan. The sources that Fr. Terrance sites are from popes and the Vatican and sound logic that does not mince words. Fr. Terrance addresses Bishop Snyder and his statements in the second half of this homily kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y3SZnJt4nd6IaZo although he does not mention his name. Unfortunately EWTN, and Raymond Arroyo in particular, has become very critical of the Pope. Here is a video that Fr. Terrance did using Cardinal Burke as a source who was the chief canon layer for the Catholic Church for many year under Pope Benedict kzbin.info/www/bejne/fn7diaiVi853i8k The situation is confusing both because the SSPX and their sympathizers are playing word games in order to avoid the label of schismatics and the Church is making many overtures to them to bring them back in. But given the number of people the SSPX have pulled away from the Church recently, the dangers of any association with them need to be clearly stated. God bless. - Friar Roderic

[@TheCleanTech]

I believe Bishop Snyder to be a very Holy man, but authority is not dependent on Holiness , I remember Christ gave the supreme authority to St Peter not St John , It’s easy to follow a holy man , it takes supernatural faith to obey legitimate authority in spite of the holiness of the individual.

[@jodieelizabeth4905]

@@franciscanfriars amen 🙏

[@Bob.W.]

It's Bishop Schneider folks, not Snyder.

[@priscillaprichard6336]

I am not a member of the SSPX but can understand their resistance to the Roman Catholic Church of today. St. Francis of Assisi, one of the greatest saints and founder of the Franciscan Order said "A fearful crime to offend God in order not to displease men". He was speaking of Pilate who unjustly condemned Jesus to death in order not to displease the people, and I feel that the Church is doing exactly that today.

[@franciscanfriars]

Forgive me, Priscilla, but you don't know much about St. Francis of Assisi. He opens & closes the Rule that he wrote for his brothers pledging fidelity to the Holy Church & obedience to the Holy Father & his lawful successors - the Rule which I've vowed to observe, along with all other Franciscans. - Fr. Terrance

[@ChaChaDancin]

God can defend Himself and His Bride. That isn’t our responsibility. We don’t save the Church. The Church saves us.

[@kyler9323]

Questions: Isn't it the Vatican's policy that one could attend a SSPX chapel, perhaps even regularly, and that would fulfill one's Sunday obligation? Of course there is the warning that one doesn't imbue any Schismatic tendencies while frequenting the society chapel. Putting aside the prudence of that policy, that is decidedly not the policy the Vatican takes with the Orthodox. My understanding is that one can go to an Orthodox church, receive communion, but it does not fulfill our Sunday obligation. Why the difference in policy if the two are basically in the same canonical position? Also, why the language of "irregular" status? We don't use that to describe the Orthodox.

[@franciscanfriars]

We'll address the question tomorrow. God bless!

[@kyler9323]

@@franciscanfriars I look forward to hearing it! God bless!

[@OurLadysTheology]

Kennedy Hall considers Levebvre a saint. Apparabtly he’s his own Magisterium.

[@ScreamingReel500]

We have to know one thing that there is no mercy beyond fairness. Our God first is fair/just, then He is merciful. That means you cannot keep people in ignorance and turn around and punish them for their ignorance. Only God knows who is saved or who is not, He is the author of life and death. The Church is the faithful, the body of Christ, an assemble of people, a physical worship place. The Church does not save you, but God. All baptized persons belong to the Church not just Catholic (Abel, Abraham, Noah, Job, Moses...etc. in the Old Testament did not know Jesus and they are still having salvation by Jesus). There is no salvation for the people outside the Church, that means they already knew Jesus and rejected Him, this is not applicable to the people that by their own circumstances do not know Jesus. This is clearly defined in the Catechism. But the Sedevacantists rejected the legitimacy of Second Vatican Council and the validity of the N.O. mass, they define the "Church" in their own term. We are not the Magisterium and we do not have that authority. “The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops."__Lady of Akita.