St-Margaret the Dragonslayer - Peaceful Protest and The Feminine Hero

For a literature class at Saskatoon University, I discuss St-Margaret (Marina) of Antioch with Mark
Doerksen. We discuss St-Margaret's surprising story of being swallowed by a dragon and piercing it to escape. We examine how this is related to the feminine hero and the role of martyrs as examples for Christians.
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My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.
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[@erri4433]

My Dad showed me this channel. I’m grateful for these talks; it’s hard to even think as a modern person.

[@Moneyman-33]

Ain’t that the truth.

[@WhiteStoneName]

Succinctly, and truly spoken.

[@Jaredskoll]

I hope your channel continues to grow. You're showing a depth to Christianity that I don't think many people were ever aware of.

[@M-i-k-a-e-l]

And it is sorely needed.

[@faevoryn6578]

On the last episode of "Star Wars: The Mandalorian", there is a big scene where 4 warrior women fight off an army of men. I sense that this is meant to be an example of women being as strong and equal to men. We're starting to see that kind of battle all the time. (I'm not knocking "The Mandalorian", I loved the whole series.) I will say that I am yearning for a return to admiration of the feminine hero that wins the day through her feminine strengths -- things like sensitivity, emotional intelligence, foresight, tactfulness, self-restraint, etc. Like Esther in the Bible, she saves her people through relationships and diplomacy. I'd like to see a new celebration of the type feminine heroes found in Jane Austen novels, who save their families or their futures through love and relationships.

[@annmacarthur7717]

Interesting inversion of her being swallowed by the chaotic dragon & bursting out of the dragon like/unlike a baby from the womb.

[@mostlydead3261]

Dugin, in his lecture on the Logos of Cybele, mentions that the feminine way of killing, contrary to masculine infliction of quick death via say stabbing or cutting or crushing, is slow and oft circumspect.. so slow suffocation, or poisoning, or bleeding of victim, prolonged and elaborate torture.. in philosophy it would be something like Derrida's deconstruction contra say masculine direct logical rebuttal.. so a woman bursting thru a dragon's stomach with cross is masculine whilst woman slowly seducing her partner, gradually subverting his beliefs and getting him to accept her faith is feminine..

[@hugh_james]

Jonathan talking about contracting categories is its own kind of revelation. This conversation blew my mind.

[@annmacarthur7717]

Stories of dragons are very relevant in this current world filled with chaos & corrupt authority.

[@manubishe]

I'm more afraid of the sexual monstrosity that invades all of internet-exposed independent people. Once I watched a movie with my family, at age 3-5, and a sexual/intimate scene came up, then the mythical warped with experience shown by the social people, and from that moment I realized the invasion of the society towards what was promised as private for a family. Corruption in emotional authority is used daily in Israel, where I live my social life, and I don't see myself as leaving a place without experiencing how to structure my own emotional fields in my present surroundings.

[@PsychoBible]

Very enlightening! I had never heard of Saint Margaret's story before.

[@GrimrDirge]

12:20 this reminds me very much of Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita - not wanting to shed blood but bound by duty.

[@billdavidson3519]

Mr. Pageau, Very interesting video. Thank you.

[@johnnytass2111]

The comments alone are a treasure. Thanks Jonathan for bringing out the conversation.

[@gregorymoats4007]

I purchased a 67’ Plymouth Valiant years ago and named her Margaret, as an homage to the female nurse who owned it. She was a great car that ran very well. The fatal flaw was the floor boards rotted out ....

[@rafajanczukowicz5644]

Wow, this intro is amazing!!!

[@josuecallejero9864]

There's a fun little short story, 'The Lady or the Tiger' by Frank Stockton, that is a great teaser about some of these ideas. I'd highly recommend it!

[@claudette4113]

Your words have changed my life as a Christian

[@greggeverman5578]

Another great Pageau translation. Making all our lives easier.

[@emmanuelgonzalezcaseira9141]

Great talk! and of course, now I have to ask you for a video where you present the different types of feminine Christian heroes, since I, as an aspiring writer, would love to know them to see how could I incorporate them in my writing in some form.

[@nuzzi6620]

Read the lives of the saints

[@younggrasshopper3531]

@@nuzzi6620 which saints?

[@Janine11155]

Many years ago I heard a commentary made by Carl Jung during the Second World War, describing how in his view the Nazis were doomed to fail. He did it by analyzing the symbolism they were using. The Nazis would put a statue of Apollo, for example, atop a swastika which they had "repurposed" for their regime. But Jung pointed out that this was inherently contradictory, as Apollo was a symbol for the birthplace of democracy, and the Nazis had created a totalitarian state (symbolized by their swastika). So, he predicted, they were doomed to fail through these inherent contradictions. I believe the same is happening today in the "religion" of Harry Potter, etc which is contradictory to the foundations of civilization -- that is, contradictory to the myths that are truly full of more profound meaning. Our own civilization and esp imo lies deliberately promulgated are forming a kind of internal nervous breakdown

[@purpleheart6447]

Interestingly the truth is also causing a nervous breakdown of the liars.😊

[@sun_paper_girl]

very good interview.

[@almondtree]

I have always seen the dragons or serpents as pride, not necessarily chaos. I feel like they bring about chaos, but it’s always through pride. I really like the interpretation of the Kings house becoming a prison for the woman. But I think I would see the dragon being the pride of her own heart. Somewhat similar to when Jesus says to Peter, get behind me Satan, for you are not mindful of the things of God but if the things of men. So it was the desire for her to preserve her own life that swallowed her up, and only through the cross, a death to her self, was she able to free herself from that dragon.

[@Janine11155]

A dragon can also be a symbol of the demonic, something always rooted in a form of selfishness

[@greggeverman5578]

interesting analysis.

[@skyblindness]

Thank you for the video, Johnatan. I'm orthodox christian, and would be interesting if you made a video about figure of saint in general, why do we have veneration of them and how it is possible to became saint, why and how God transform a person to became someone like that. And how denial of that harm our christian belief(protestants) and make our simbolic worldview incomplete.

[@virginiusmaximus7006]

Jonathan, you should do a video with Chris Gabriel from the KZbin channel, Meme Analysis.

[@logoimotions]

awesome to see you at 93k subs. nice bump. onto 10 million

[@unicron24]

many cultures worshiped women, they were valuable, one of the great lies was that women were not wanted, its a big lie that they made to cover the power of the woman.

[@Macheako]

Women had plenty of influence in history....we have been fooled into thinking the wildest untruths about life.

[@unicron24]

@@Macheako so true, behind every great man is a great woman, and women have the ability to cover there tracks and be the main influence behind many a mans decisions and public and social policies. its the media and movies that put a false narrative as that women were and are left in the dark and with no power or choice.

[@mostlydead3261]

Dugin insists that we cannot understand European culture and history without acknowledging the continuing presence of matriarchal, cybeline strain in spite of its suppression from the official history.. dugin.ru/en/video/noomachia-serbia-2018-lecture-4-logos-cybele

[@unicron24]

@@mostlydead3261 thanks,,, good info

[@Macheako]

@@mostlydead3261 why does England retain its Queen.....this many years after she lost her King..... European Men have a habit of bowing to women...

[@nickimontie]

This was very enjoyable!! Thanks!

[@brandorev]

If Nelson Mandela is not a good example, would Alexandr Solzhenitsyn be a better example?

[@Janine11155]

yes, even telling a small truth is a victory

[@romeisburning6739]

I don't remember Solzhenitsyn setting anybody on fire either.

[@unicron24]

by your idea the dragon would be the neglected responsibility of one or more persons. that in fact the dragon was created the the persons who ends up slaying the dragon. as in not paying the bills, or even accepting the responsibility to in the first place.

[@lauragiles5193]

Certain films will make the cut. Watch Babette's Feast and try not think of the heavenly banquet bought at the cost of sacrificial love!

[@richardchampagne4395]

Hey Jonathan, it may take a long time to decipher, but Ahsoka Tano from Star Wars seems to be the only one in the Universe with a proper story arc. Unlike Rey from the sequel trilogy, she is not a transposed male archteype in a female body.

[@ibelieve3111]

Thanks

[@hehheh382]

Mostly artistic carver. Artistry intensifies.

[@bionicmosquito2296]

Regarding the stories behind the earliest Christian conversions and the women behind these, few, if any, can top the legend of the conversion of the Armenian king Tiridates. Having executed the virgin Rhipsime (as she would only marry him if he became Christian), Tiridates was turned into a grass-eating boar. Only St. Gregory, thrown into a pit by the same king thirteen years earlier, could save the king. After this was born the first Christian nation in 301 AD. www.gutenberg.org/files/38129/38129-h/38129-h.htm#ch1.3.3

[@jarlnicholl1478]

Interesting that he was turned into boar of all things in that story for violence done to holy woman, as the boar is a symbol associated with chtonic great mother. Curious survival of older symbolism of feminine sacrality.

[@logoimotions]

This is the first time I've spotted the new logo. They did really good work.

[@farmschoolchicks1913]

I’d love to hear him talk through Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[@jennifercampanaro7544]

St Clare is my pardon St. she was a peaceful warrior and a strong women in her time !

[@SongOfSongsOneTwelve]

Your art is beautiful! Can I please have permission to use one of your images on a podcast?

[@lainers175]

There I was thinking St. Martha was the female saint who slayed a dragon! I'll have to look into St. Margaret now.

[@vincentlewis5]

Have read New Science by Giambattista Vico

[@MerryMaggie]

Which Russian Saint were you referencing who confronted the lecherous Priest?

[@jasmin-ve6ep]

I am searching for who this was as well!

[@jasmin-ve6ep]

If anyone could identify the saint talked about at 25:15 it would be so greatly appreciated!

[@mayormccheese6171]

I've been looking for a good book that collects and tells the lives of the great saints, but so far I haven't found it. Does anyone know of one?

[@greggeverman5578]

Father Alban Butler's 'Lives of the Saints' if you don't already have it.

[@simonbelmont1986]

i spy the city of God 4 volumes behind Mark Doerkse? :D I loved listening to this topic, Thank you!

[@corvusossi5848]

Celtic and Germanic pagan women had more rights than Roman pagan women, so while Christianity brought more rights to Roman women, that may not be true elsewhere outside the Roman empire

[@galacticecho7027]

So, as a protestant evangelical this is an aspect of Orthodox faith that I have struggled to understand for many years. Do you have a video that explains what is going on with icons that is different than idol worship? I know Orthodox Christians and even Catholics view this differently and I'd like to understand if at all possible. Also, I think symbolism is great, I just don't see how icons don't end up being a symbol worship of some kind. Again, open to having my mind changed. Though maybe not my denomination, haha.

[@Janine11155]

We pray with the icons of saints, just as you would pray with a living person. The icons of saints are icons of those who form the "great cloud of witnesses" which St. Paul wrote about. Jesus said "I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob" meaning they all live to God, a reality of an eternal present. Icons are not worshiped -- it's like if you look at a photo of someone you loved who passed, and at least in spirit that person is present to you. Saints are venerated, not worshiped. Also when there is a service we are worshiping with saints and angels in heaven as in the vision of Isaiah or even the book of Revelation

[@galacticecho7027]

@@Janine11155 Okay, I don't know if I agree with it, but I can at least understand the intent and see how it isn't necessarily idol worship. Thanks for the insight! Been making some effort to understand different denominations perspectives over the years. The eternal present bit definitely makes sense to me. I don't know if the textual evidence is there to support the Orthodox Tradition. But, it clearly isn't rooted in anything particularly un-biblical either. One thing I can say that I really think I have missed out on as a protestant is the experience of God's more mystical aspects. Been trying to recover that in my own walk as much as possible.

[@Janine11155]

@@galacticecho7027 You should feel free to come to a service sometime just to observe and experience the liturgy, and you can ask questions afterward.

[@Janine11155]

@@galacticecho7027 There are also blogs that might help you to understand more of the tradition. There are Orthodox Priests who come originally from Western Protestant traditions, like that of Father Stephen Freeman and others. Since it is Lent, you might also check out prayer practice like the Jesus Prayer (I promise you, it is just a simple prayer repeated, not something that will conflict with your faith). There are pages on that as well. The one at the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese website gives the biblical background of St Paul's admonition to "pray without ceasing"

[@Janine11155]

@@galacticecho7027 Sorry for all of my replies, but I just want to add one more thing since I think it might be important to you. Icons are not painted realistically for a reason, they are not meant to be actual photos or pictures but rather so we understand this is a spiritual reality in prayer. Some suggest they are meant to be like a window to the kingdom of heaven

[@06rtm]

I think an easy way to understand the ancient inclination for dragons is to imagine an alien space monster. We naturally invoke images akin to dragon when we are forced to imagine what terrifying creatures could exist on other planets. Or in other words, what chaos awaits us as we travel into the unknown.

[@juicerino]

'Amazon'

[@radagast7200]

In Christian times consent was the rule... *laughs in Uther*

[@ofthecaribbean]

You've found one exception. That's all

[@radagast7200]

@@ofthecaribbean it was a joke.

[@ofthecaribbean]

@@radagast7200 You need to work on your material

[@radagast7200]

@@ofthecaribbean well, I found it funny. Perhaps you should brush up on your Malory.

[@ofthecaribbean]

@@radagast7200 We all have our flaws