Is It Cruel Or Mean To Keep A Stallion?

Got this great question from a member and I thought I'd toss my thoughts out to anybody that is interested. I think that to keep any horse, stallion or not, as some stallions are kept is cruel. Locked in a stall for the majority of their life, or even over 1/4 of their life is excessive to me, is not kind. It's very hard on a horse to be locked up in a small prison cell with no access to it's friends. It's always up to the human to create the kind and supportive environment for the horse, no matter the condition, gender, behaviors or age. We have to accommodate and work hard to give them healthy lives both physically and mentally.
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[@laurelgallahar1444]

My stallion is 15yrs old & is in a paddock alone but has 2 geldings next to him (only straight wire fence between them) & his half sister & another gelding across from him. We've never had an issue with him. He's in a 4 acre paddock & loves having his neighbours next door. Definitely feel that it's how they are raised & socialised that is how their temperament developes over time.

[@StableHorseTraining]

He never gets to socialize together?

[@laurelgallahar1444]

@@StableHorseTraining Not in the same paddock. His paddock is his home. Very protective of it. Has the sheep in there sometimes & cows.

[@StableHorseTraining]

Poor horse... What a sad life indeed.

[@laurelgallahar1444]

@@StableHorseTraining I guess that's your opinion 🙄 He's very happy actually. Has horse neighbours & other farm friends, more than most horses alone or being boxed or in tiny yards. Abundance of grass & water, has his own dam to swim in & gets feed twice a day. Never been ridden or dragged around to shows. He's a happy pony 🙂

[@StableHorseTraining]

If you say so. Nobody to cogroom with. Nobody to play with but lots of food, water and space. Sounds like solitary confinement to me. Why did you comment on this video? You can't see this video is about people like you? You're so blind to what you're doing that you were confident enough to brag about keeping a horse in solitary confinement. It's not just "my opinion". It's proven science based on years of behavior research. In your mind though, as long as it's not as bad as the really bad ones then it's fine.... Ok then. Carry on.

[@fallbrkgrl]

All though I'm not a fan of breeding for profit, I've run across a channel in Arizona that breeds, and they rotate the stallions and mares that they want to breed, in open pastures, or free range, with the cattle they raise (they have access to thousands of acres). I have become familiar with one of their stallions, Monster, and he is such a cool guy. He may talk a bit when they take him out riding, and he sees mares, but any horse will do that. I've gathered that it's all part of the training process, in that they should learn when It's "work time", and they should be focused on you and not their friends. You are correct, in that as long as they can be a "horse", stallions can be just as safe as geldings, with an experienced horseman, or women. It's heartbreaking for those that aren't living their best life...for profit. ❤️🌵☀️⛈️🌈☮️🐎

[@StableHorseTraining]

Got this great question from a member and I thought I'd toss my thoughts out to anybody that is interested. I think that to keep any horse, stallion or not, as some stallions are kept is cruel. Locked in a stall for the majority of their life, or even over 1/4 of their life is excessive to me, is not kind. It's very hard on a horse to be locked up in a small prison cell with no access to it's friends. It's always up to the human to create the kind and supportive environment for the horse, no matter the condition, gender, behaviors or age. We have to accommodate and work hard to give them healthy lives both physically and mentally.

[@martineinfrance]

I believe, like for bits and spurs, it's also part of the transmitted ideas through generations, to lock up stallions in a barn, not questioning if they can do otherwise to give them a better life. Let's hope this will also change one day.

[@jules8299]

I have a former stud horse. He is a 2005 colt and was gelded in 2013. I have to keep him engaged both mentally and physically but overall he's good with my mares. He's very gentle with me. I can see his former self come through occasionally and I distract him with activities. We either go trail riding or I take him for a walk. He's very protective of his girls and me. I love him dearly.

[@missys]

I agree. It's purely situational. If they are treated no different and have access to a herd, to have friends then yes, it's fine. If they are kept alone, no. I feel, IMHO, if you're not using them as a stud then what's the point..... But again that's just my opinion.

[@StableHorseTraining]

it's a good opinion!

[@algypsy17]

Yes, I totally agree. Most barns don't accept stallions because it's complicated and/or dangerous for everybody as there are mares around. Some offer some space with a paddock life and high fencing, but still it is a solitary and stressful life. Most live in stalls in "boys only" buildings. That's cruel and how could any horse be happy like that ? It's ok to live in a stall if there is daylong turnout into pastures with buddies (geldings), so they can have a social life, play and run. I have read an article about a barn specialized in stallions where they live in small herds and they do get along very well (in Gremany if I remember well). The luckiest ones are very few : they live with a little herd of mares and are allowed to breed naturally and really live with this herd all year round, but these places are rare. Most don't want to take the risk of a stallion getting hurt, there are many extremely valuable stallions that don't ever breed with a real mare, the owners only sell the semence for artificial insemination.

[@martineinfrance]

Surely the high value stallions' semence is very expensive. Artificial insemination is also commonly used to accommodate human..It saves people keeping a stud or a bull. I have known isolated bulls too.

[@Tartxaglia]

Love how he looks back like "Why aren't you scratching yet human??" 😂

[@maureenstringer4362]

Lol, I noticed that too, also the way he lifted one nostril like a sneer when Graeme said they can run around with their friends.

[@leeevers8976]

I think there are too many unwanted horses, just like dogs and cats that it’s better to reduce the population.

[@StableHorseTraining]

Agreed. Breeding should be stopped completely. People do love them some baby horse though. Others like to make money...

[@AL-lz1hb]

Absolutely, it is down to the owner/handler. We had a Donkey stallion as kids and he was not much of a problem. He had horses next door to his field which kept him happy. If I was choosing now, I'd say a gelding would have been more sensible. But then he was adored by us kids for the gentle lovable rogue that he was. He was perfectly happy to be our spoiled plaything. He needed a strong grown-up around out of the field to handle him in case he got too frisky seeing mares out, but other than that, he good as gold. We probably needed a grown up anyway given he'd never had much (if any) proper training and we were so young and inexperienced. In our village there were big fancy stallions kept for stud. Only ever came out of their stables for seeing to the mares. A miserable life and they were grumpy as heck. The owner said they couldn't be turned out because they wouldn't respect the fences. Thus they were prisoners and only he could handle them. Even as kids we saw the misery and hated it. They'd kick at the stable doors, ears back as we passed, others would be weaving or cribbing unstopable. Having a pet was a privilage and it meant to us that we needed to do everything in our power to give our pets the best life we could. Just as they did so much to give us happiness. These horses were his livelihood and they were just taken advantage of. It was saddder than sad to see these magestic creatures captive year after year.

[@StableHorseTraining]

I believe that second story you have there is where the question comes from. It's very common unfortunately.

[@AL-lz1hb]

@@StableHorseTraining That is sad to hear. We hoped he was a bad apple. And after so long, wouldn't you hope the general care for stud animals would be better?

[@StableHorseTraining]

Well.. not when there is money involved. Horse welfare generally goes downhill in such a case.

[@AL-lz1hb]

@@StableHorseTraining in my world animals would be free. There would be no buying and selling. Profiting. I'd like to think horses and humans would still be friends but proper ones that don't decide to sell them for meat when they get old or sick. There is a situation locally that is too sad for words. And no-one has the power to do anything. I come to your channel to cheer myself . Reminding myself not everyone is stupid and mean and cruel. Like you I love to watch horses. And if you watch they tell you so much. Yet so many folks, won't take the time. Too busy. Not interested? So why work with animals if you aren't interested? Unless folks like me are driven out til it's just the rotten ones remaining? Sorry, it's gotten me down a bit today, how powerless I feel. Seeing horses kept in poor conditions, stressed and miserable.

[@martineinfrance]

Thank you for addressing that subject, because what you describe seems to be the life of the few stallions I have known in France : isolation, then they become dangerous to handle, due to their condition. In the wild they spend their life in fights and reproduction. Fight to keep their status of high horse, keep and protect their mares, inducing changes in herd dynamics. They were two stallions (with papers) used for reproduction in my club. They were kept in stalls but were always part of trail rides, in turn, never together. They were high horses leading the riders behind (on geldings, mares were the last ones to follow) . They were ok provided they were heading and ridden by the owner of the club only. As individuals, they were quite sweet, demonstrative with a high personality, close to human. Occasionally, they were used to mount a mare in heat after a teaser stallion had made sure she would be receptive, studs being difficult to handle when mating. I would say those didn't have an ideal normal stud life but not that bad compared to other stallions who turn mad locked in, in full isolation. I had other experiences with non gelded males which were quite dangerous to ride on a trail with the other males, but had never reproduced. I spent 10 days on a trail mentally fighting each time one of them came too near mine. As an appalling rider, I would never do that again and would recommend such a trail to experienced riders which was not my case ! I definitely cannot imagine a stud in the arena when geldings and mares are all playing! 😅

[@StableHorseTraining]

True, I don't expect it would go well at all with mares/geldings and a stallion or more...

[@martineinfrance]

@@StableHorseTraining yes!

[@abigail1023]

I've pondered this for some time. To keep a horse, a herd animal, isolated from and deprived of the company of his own kind is troubling. I'm not sure what, if any, answer there is.

[@StableHorseTraining]

The answer is: It's cruel.

[@abigail1023]

@@StableHorseTraining I know it's inhumane. I mean I don't know what the solution is.

[@StableHorseTraining]

@@abigail1023 The answer is that the people who are doing have to find a way to accept they are abusive horse owners (mental/emotional possibly physical) and from the public acceptance and pressure for it to become integrated into our current animal laws. Then that the authorities need the power to do something about it as it becomes accepted in society for what it is.

[@lauraalbertson7821]

Hello there Guys ! It’s Sunday and a great Day here in Northern California 🇺🇸 You always give lots of good points for why you feel the way you do about most things . I considered keeping Bear a Stallion for awhile . So we could have more Little Bears 🐴🐴 But , I can’t have a Stallion at the Stables where we keep Him . And it’s a wonderful place .He is already showing Stallion behavior. Lots of pretty Mares here 💞 So hearing you explain how limited a Stallion’s life can be , makes next Saturday a bit easier. We do have an appointment March 5 to gelded Him . 😚 My Sweet Baby Bear . I still feel bad for Him . Laura 💜 Bear

[@StableHorseTraining]

good choice.

[@startliving3859]

Stallions will join bachelor herds, so they're perfectly capable of having social stimulation. It's the responsibility of the owner. It's cruel when the owner is oblivious to the horses needs.

[@StableHorseTraining]

I agree

[@bethmccormack5172]

My opinion is that there is a time and a place for stallions. I believe that as a general rule, average owners don't really know how to properly take care of them, or just aren't up to the task. People can get hurt as well. I believe that an average owner will be much happier with a gelding. I myself have always preferred geldings over mares even. Anyway, that's my opinion. Have a great day all!

[@StableHorseTraining]

thank you for sharing!

[@algypsy17]

What is an "average owner" in your opinion ? Most stallions are between the hand of professional owners/breeders and those are generally the stallions kept in unnatural conditions. And when handled halters with chains are used. So I prefer a non pro owner who just turn out his stallion all day long with a buddy. Which one will be easier to handle ? There are difficult geldings out there that can be dangerous for an "average owner" too. I believe that much depends on the stallions' life history, and on the respect of him being just a horse and being well treated, which will make him safe to handle for anyone who has enough experience to safely handle a gelding.

[@Silver_Ever]

@@algypsy17 THIS.

[@steff8069]

my friend just bought a 5 year old stallion that is very social (lived with younger stallions and geldings in a herd so far) and we will also turn him out with geldings. She will take part in endurance races with him and maybe - if he prooves himself - will want him as a stud. she has no qualms about it tho, that if it turns out he won't be able to be turned out nicely because he is too stressed or aggressive, then she will geld him eventually.

[@StableHorseTraining]

Sounds about right

[@outlawfarms6961]

I've owned stallions and I prefer a stallion to most mares or gelding as far as riding. They make you bring your A game. Make you a better horse owner main thing to remember is they are horses. Respect them and they will respect you if handle &trained right from the time they were born. My heart horse was an Appaloosa stallion. He was the best behaved horse he had the biggest heart. He was also a kids safe horse. Ive had 3 stallions housed/pastured together at one time with no issues. If a first time horse owner though should never own a stallion. Even though my second horse was a stallion but he was as well behaved as his son ,my heart horse

[@StableHorseTraining]

To each his/her own. I have absolutely zero interest in riding a horse that forces me on my "A game". Whether it's a mare, gelding or stallion, I 100% expect my horses to care about what I'm asking and in turn neither of us have to be on top of our skills, we just be kind to each other and go along nicely. I also don't believe a horse makes me be a better horse owner as that would imply that somebody with a stallion is a superior horse owner to me. I excel because I choose to and objectively look at my horses and myself and always try to improve. I think it's great you had a fantastic experience with horses. That's wonderful to hear about, thanks for sharing that.

[@outlawfarms6961]

@@StableHorseTraining my stallion made me a better person to my horses. I learned so much from my boys. That's what I ment by A game. My heart horse saved my life more then once.

[@StableHorseTraining]

@@outlawfarms6961 I agree with that, I am constantly learning too :)

[@Silver_Ever]

OP this comment is exactly how I feel.

[@TheLostBear78]

I kept my pony as a stallion for a number of years. Had him in a large pasture with a very studdy gelding. They were good friends, lots of play fighting, but lots of normal grooming stuff also. Pony was too aggressively playful with people. We let it go on way WAY too long, as he was small, it wasn't a big problem for so long. But eventually, he was bigger, and wouldn't chill out as much as needed. We eventually had to geld him, and he's such a gentle sweety now.

[@lauraalbertson7821]

Thank you Kevin for sharing this. My Little Colt wants to play and engage with us . My Husband handles Him really well when this happens. I’m learning. I don’t want to take the desire to engage with us away. But he will get big. We just gelded him a week ago. He greeted me yesterday very happy and playful . I’m not sure how far I should let him go.? I rub his nose and mouth when he reaches up to play . When you gelded your pony , did it take long to calm him around you ? Bear is 9 mos. Laura 💜 Bear

[@TheLostBear78]

@@lauraalbertson7821 He slowly calmed over time. Didn't see hardly any difference for a few weeks. Then slowly after that.

[@katjordan8121]

Many years ago, I was at a show barn that had 2 stallions in it. There were mares and geldings, too, about a dozen horses all together. The people in the barn were careful around them, but the stallions had wonderful lives, just like the geldings. It's all about owners who understand them and the skills to handle them safely. For the purpose of breeding, the stallions had specific halters that were never used unless there was gonna be a breeding. That way the stallion ALWAYS knew when he was 'on stage.' And they KNEW, it was amazing, calm and quiet one minute, put that special halter on and a STALLION walked out of that stall in all his brazen arrogance and display.

[@BrienaSkysong1]

My Thoroughbred stallion is kept in a decent sized paddock with his one mare (we're looking to have an Appendix baby by 2023). He's gentle, loving, and has been, by far the safest horse I've sat on. My plans are for him to be an endurance horse. He respects fences and minds his own business aside from sweet-talking when our other mare (pastured between the Lovebirds and my gelding who is the aggressive one on the farm and acts more like a stud than the stud lol) comes over to pine after him. We're selling the gelding and once he's gone we'll be moving Bear and Fly to that pasture as there's way more room for them. It definitely thoroughly depends on the person.

[@lavenderwyvern]

Thank you so much again for answering this question!! You rock!

[@StableHorseTraining]

you're very welcome :)

[@raising.hell.hounds6312]

I have always had a controversial opinion in which I don't believe stallions should be gelded till they are close to or if not fully grown. If you look at dogs if you fix them to Early it causes health issues and behavior issues and I think it's the same with horses to. So I believe you shouldn't geld a stallion till 3-4 years. If anyone is miss treating a horse that way where they just lock them up in a stall and don't give them outlets or any proper care they shouldn't even own a horse in my opinion. Maybe that's a bit harsh but there is no excuse to miss treat a animal. Great video!

[@StableHorseTraining]

Are there any studies on that subject of fixing a male animal early compared to later and what the health issues are? I'd be very interested in seeing a solid study on that. Especially for horses obviously but I'd take a look at the dog ones.

[@lavenderwyvern]

@@StableHorseTraining I am also very interested in this!

[@LinM-bd2vr]

For as far as I am aware the studies in dogs are a bit more nuanced than just 'fixing too early causes health issues'. I believe studies are often breed specific and test for a predetermined set of diseases (so you only get information on that set, any other health effects on mental state or longevity for example can be overlooked in such studies). I'd be interested in the literature though because I'm not really sure myself what the answer is, just that its not a simple one. However to say something like this that applies to dogs also applies to horses is a stretch. You cannot just extrapolate results from one breed to another let alone to another species.

[@raising.hell.hounds6312]

@@LinM-bd2vr that's definitely fair and there was a study I read about it with horses saying gelding to early isn't the best but Im having a hard time finding it again. I think there needs to be more tests done

[@LinM-bd2vr]

@@raising.hell.hounds6312 Haha the problem of finding a study you read once is one I recognize. But I absolutely agree we need more research.

[@debracrew3261]

When i worked with horses i looked after a showjumper which was a stallion, first i was abit dubious at first BUT he was the most kindest horse ive worked with the only proplum was when you went to a show you just kepted him away from the mares.When a mare comes into heat a gelding will still mount a mare but she wont get pregnant.

[@jerrezlutz8867]

I am I guess you could call a dog person, owned and trained dogs most of my life, mostly Collies, never bred them. Always nuetered the males and the females. Didn't seem to change the girls, and the dogs didn't lose their attitudes, just didn't fight as much.

[@martineinfrance]

My comment disappeared, where I related my experience with studs and stallions who had never sired..

[@StableHorseTraining]

Something odd is happening on KZbin... Comments are just disappearing at random

[@martineinfrance]

@@StableHorseTraining yes I know, it happened before!

[@lauraalbertson7821]

@@StableHorseTraining 🙈

[@catherinewhite4313]

Maybe the way they are kept has something to do with their reputation

[@Conny226]

Rooney has such cute eys🤣so big 🥰how he is standing behind you and looks in the camera 🤣🤣🤣

[@missys]

My original comment disappeared. But as long as they have a herd and able to socialize then ok go for it. If no ability to have friends and socialize, then no. Thats not fair to the animal. IMHO, if there is no need to breed them then why not geld them? That's my opinion.

[@StableHorseTraining]

that was weird how your comment disappeared as I recall responding to your comment too.. Well, it's a good opinion!

[@bethmccormack5172]

@@StableHorseTraining Yeah, mine disappeared as well. You and someone else responded to it which is strange indeed. But no biggies here. Missy, I agree with you on your opinion as well. 🖖

[@missys]

@@bethmccormack5172 thanks Beth! I wonder if they went away when it was uploaded for the non-members? But it's all good. 😊

[@bethmccormack5172]

@@missys I think so. Someone had replied not too nicely to my post and I was going to follow-up, but it's all good. It was just as well that it was removed. I don't sweat the small things too much. There's enough turmoil in this world as it is. I like coming here because it helps me collect myself. The "quiet" is awesome!

[@missys]

@@bethmccormack5172 I totally agree. No point in getting frazzled. I come here for the same reason. It's a lovely community of nice people. Graeme promotes learning and kindness which is hard to find. It's definitely a pleasant escape! ❤️😊

[@jerrezlutz8867]

Remember I haven't had the chance to be around horses for years, how do stallions and geldings get along. Can they live together ? It seems that your boys do notice when the girls are feeling friendly. Does it make a difference how old the stallion is when he is gelded ?

[@StableHorseTraining]

Stallions and geldings usually do just fine. It's always just horse by horse. I do believe it makes a difference in the age of being gelded as the patterns are already there the older they get.

[@kathryndejaeger1002]

What I have found through the years is that there are a lot of breeders who are blind to their stallions. Meaning that their stallion or stallions do not have the qualities that would want to be bred on. Sure, you can have a horse with a great personality, but if they don't meet up with the breed standard for that particular horse, then why not do that horse a favor and geld him so he could have a "normal" life. And I have also known breeders who have had stallions that have been stabled next to mares or geldings. I know of one breeder who had 2 stallions that were across the barn aisle from each other. They both got to go outside in a round pen at least once a week. I can't say I agree with that but I also saw the one stallion start to self mutilate. He would bite his own legs and chest in frustration. And he was a sweet horse sometimes, but other times he was very neurotic acting.

[@susaninezforrester8102]

🐎😁🐎😁🐎😁🐎

[@jesscvideo]

I had miniature horses for years and full size horses as a kid. My stallions were the best ones! They are stronger, have more of a personality and are definitely better looking. Once gelded a horse looses his spirit and seems to behave because he just becomes kind of blah. My mini stallions made the best driving horses. We used to drive them in carts together and had a blast. Some people will feel differently but that’s my opinion lol especially think of keeping your horse a stallion if he behaves well, if he is not nipping or biting and not showing behavior problems he will be fine to be kept a stallion. And you can keep a well behaved stallion with geldings. Mine were all kept with geldings, they were more spirited and played more, but they were happier horses

[@StableHorseTraining]

It's a common hypothesis. Completely unprovabale as you can't ungeld them to test that theory, nor will there be any two horses exactly alike to test with. . I'm cool with people thinking it though as I too can't prove the opposite for the same reasons. That said I've not seen my horses lose their spirit in the least and I had Mr. Wilde gelded here. He's still full of it! Tried to mount the other day and is an absolute gem of a horse.

[@profanetruth17]

I understand the purpose of gelding a stallion ... but if someone were to try to geld me I wouldn't be nice to them. Scratch that butt human .. KNOW YOUR PLACE!

[@StableHorseTraining]

hahaha... yes, luckily we don't "geld" humans like we do with horses...

[@profanetruth17]

@@StableHorseTraining it ought to be a requisite for politicians heh, gelding would certainly calm them - probably enough to avoid wars.

[@chrisunderwood2524]

I think in my own words..there should not be any stallions what so ever...it is very cruel to have these horses be made to stand in stalls day after day..no out door life.only let out at certain times....this is only a stupid human dissicion..if this is to keep a certain breed from going extinct..then I understand..but most of this is just plain nonscience..they are herd animals they Benifit from one another's company...and if a stallion gets loose, and breaks into another farm's mares...law suits will made...not to mention either of the horses could get hurt or even death...way to many horses already get shipped of to slaughter...they never asked to be born...please geld your boy...as soon as he is developed....my boy was done at a very early age..he is now 14..yrs old. And he hasn't a clue about any of that..mares come into heat and get all bothered, but he has no reaction to any of it..and that is how it should be...I never have to worry how will he behave at different barns we travel to..he could care less...

[@LayllasLocker]

Silly question. Is it good to keep mares who won't have babies without neutering? Just like the cats, for example. Vets say it is healthy to neuter cats if you don't have the conditions to let them have babies.

[@StableHorseTraining]

I disagree, not a silly question at all. Neutering is for males. We don't spay mares at all, almost ever from my understanding. So yes, we always keep mares intact. Cats and dogs are different as they can't be penned in like large animals, hence the need to spay them.

[@lauraalbertson7821]

I liked your question 🙋🏻‍♀️ I had wondered about that too 💁🏻‍♀️ But as always, Graeme cleared up the wonder 💭 Laura 💜 Bear

[@LayllasLocker]

@@StableHorseTraining Aham, got it. Thanks for your answer. 🤍🦄 I had to neuter both of my cats, they are indoor ladies, but the vets say it's healthier to neuter them. Plus when they get in heat there is no sleep for days. XD Small creatures but they scream as if they are demons. 😅😆

[@bevearle3984]

I disagree my race mares raced real good with a stud in the barn.

[@StableHorseTraining]

you sound like a horse abuser. You've arrived at the wrong channel as we don't support racing here.