Staccato Drop Test Triggers Many

[@SectionChief]

I think you explained it very well in that everyone doesn't know what the heck a series 70 pistol is, but would expect a modern pistol to be just as drop 'safe' as the 40 year old Glock design they're used to.

[@AlexS-zr2nb]

It may be a new production but most of the designs, apart from the grip module, is early 1900's design

[@gameragodzilla]

Series 80 1911s have resolved that problem since the 80’s, so a solution has existed for a long time, too. For 1911s, it’s always been a choice between full drop safety or a better trigger, with people debating the merits of both. Evidently, a lot of handgun owners know absolutely nothing about 1911s so this entire topic is brand new to them.

[@joshs2138]

Some of those comments you read....damn. You would think their dead daddy designed the stacatto.

[@chairmanbrando]

Some people wrap their entire identity up into the things they like/own/do, so it feels like a personal attack when someone says or does something that goes against those things. 🤷‍♀️

[@alexeisenhardt9299]

That made me exhale out of my nose

[@jayphillips368]

I carry a Staccato C2. I wasn't aware that when dropped in a certain way series 70 actions aren't drop safe. I'm still gonna carry it, I think the likelihood of dropping it in the exact perfect way for it to go bang is low, and it is a risk I will accept. That said, I totally understand why this would change someone's choice in carrying or using a Staccato, and this is information every Staccato/Series 70 1911 user should know.

[@Rdctd6969]

Oof. Sunk cost fallacy in action right here.

[@jayphillips368]

Well, I've also got my LTT PX4 ;p

[@tylerreis7627]

@@Rdctd6969came here to say exactly this. The mental gymnastics are astounding

[@ChuckSneed88]

Simply get your new firing pin and spring and shoot your gun and carry it worry free. I understand this being a duty/law enforcement issue but if youre not then do whatever you want to make your gun safer or better. It will not make it impossible to fire if dropped but it will require such a high drop in order to go off that it can't really occur unless you drop it from 15 or 20 feet or so if not more maybe. Some companies such as springfield produce 1911s that come stock with a more drop safe firing pin and spring. This is what a lot of 1911 guys do and just something you should try to take into account if you love the platform and want to carry it. I wouldn't worry too much about it but it's a very easy inexpensive fix and probably worth doing.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Don’t listen to these fools. The series 70 has been used by cops and military personnel since its inception. We still use them. Cops constantly have negligent discharges with SA/DA and striker fired guns, that’s not because they dropped the gun.

[@Philly1958]

Sig was hammered regarding the P320 as a result of its early problems with drop test. It’s a pistol that is used extensively throughout the LE community much like the staccato so the same standard should be used.

[@LordPerique]

Say what you want about 2011s but they don't go off in holsters the way sigs do.

[@mattwhite7421]

To be fair the drop issue on the sig was worse. It would go off when dropped on the back with the barrel pointing up, something a series 70 or CZ shadow would never do.

[@heeebeeegeeebeee]

While on the one hand I agree with you, I would also point out that Sigs would fire when dropped on their back, sending a bullet upwards into the air, instead of down into the concrete like a 1911/2011.

[@Blackstone9x19]

@@mattwhite7421 I would say that a CZ Shadow (which doesn't have a firing pin block) very much can go off if it's dropped on its hammer, while it's resting against the firing pin with a round chambered (the ready condition in IPSC/USPSA production). More likely if it has an extended firing pin with a reduced firing pin spring.

[@mattwhite7421]

@@Blackstone9x19 I've seen videos of people putting them in a vice and hitting the hammer with a mallet and it won't touch the primer with the stock firing pin but an aftermarket one would dent the primer. But that's not the fault of CZ, that's a modified gun.

[@slipknot9797]

I am a relatively new shooter I had no idea staccatos are not drop safe I assumed they were

[@atypical-bass1966]

Most 1911s are not drop safe, unless they’re a series 80. Unfortunately the triggers on series 80 guns are horrendously bad.

[@zues287]

​@@atypical-bass1966I wouldn't say they're "horrendously bad", but they're definitely aren't as good as a series 70. Series 80s still have better triggers than the majority of handguns on the market, and can be tuned and polished to nearly as good of a trigger as a well tuned 70 series. A well tuned 80 series just takes more work to get there, and manufacturers like Stacatto aren't going to put all of that work in. Series 80s with incredible triggers are out there. You're going to pay out the ass for it, though.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

It’s not just dropping it any way, it’s a certain way.

[@henrylee5542]

ALL* 1911s with good triggers are not drop safe

[@marvolovesgod385]

@@zues287Jesus Christ loves you so much and died for your sins🖤✝️

[@Rdctd6969]

"A falling knife is all blade, and a falling gun is all trigger."

[@jimmyfaherty8588]

Well put.

[@Shelto]

Best part of a series 70 is if you’re carrying appendix and someone tries to kick you in the nuts they’ll loose their foot

[@echo_research_and_development]

Why specifically Series 70? Why would it be different with a Series 80?

[@isaac6705]

@@echo_research_and_development Series 80 has a firing pin safety, so that it can't go off unless the trigger is pulled (firing pin can't move on its own inertia).

[@kizzmequik70four]

I guess part of the reaction is that most people just don't know how their guns work. Sure, they can do most of the gun manipulations that they need at the range. Many people could also strip down their guns for cleaning or whatnot. But it usually requires a certain level of mechanical inclination/gun nerdery/autism before people care about the nitty-gritty details of how the things work. It's like with cars: not everyone knows how the hell a transmission works, and most people just have a vague sense that it's "gears and shit".

[@echo_research_and_development]

No. No. This goes beyond people not having basic mechanical knowledge. I knew what Series 70 is. I knew Staccato P does not have firing pin block. However, the promoters of the pistols said stuff like, "Passed many agencies' drop tests...blah blah." So, do not try to pin this one on "Ignorant Newbies not knowing their own gun, not knowing what Series 70 is...blah blah." It is the promoters who are responsible for insinuating that this pistol would be different.

[@marvolovesgod385]

Jesus Christ loves you so much and died for your sins🖤

[@jonathannelson33]

If a cop tells you to drop your gun and you do, no one in that situation wants the gun to go off risking the health of someone probably yourself. Drop safe is a good thing especially for civilians.

[@MikeMcTigue-o8f]

Great stuff Ben. I knew all about series 70 1911/2011 when I got my p. I put a +40% Wolff firing spring in it with no function issues. If I send you a spring, would you drop it on it's nose? Not sure I can stomach dropping my p from head height on the cement. Let me know.....

[@zynv55]

I think we'd all love to see that.

[@aaronkinder2807]

I've been shooting since I was 25 ironically. I didn't know what a series 70 pistol was. If there was a pistol marketed for carry or "duty" I'd expect it to be drop safe. My G19 is drop safe ;) I found out, thankfully.

[@gameragodzilla]

Series 80 1911s are also drop safe, so a Para Ordnance frame gun would have the double stack 1911 concept with a firing pin block, and still had a far superior trigger to any Glock.

[@Bryan-1980]

I personally LOVE how real you are in your videos. I don’t think you’re looking for attention or anything stupid like that. I think you’ve got more knowledge in your non dominant trigger finger, than most people do in their entire body. Keep doing what you do brother 🫡💯 you’re awesome!

[@packer492]

For the comment regarding LE carrying AR15s and shotguns and them not being drop safe. This is know and trained ARs and Shotguns that are carried in Police cars are carried in a "cruiser ready" configuration per policy which means for an AR a 30 round mag in the rifle bolt forward and no round in the chamber. Same for shotgun and this is specifically done because they are not drop safe. Just food for thought.

[@LFDNC]

It also makes sense from an additional safety perspective. Not having a round in the chamber means that if you grab the long gun and the safety is off, hitting the trigger doesn’t cause an AD. I keep my home gear the same way.

[@joshuabick2913]

Why pay 2011 money when you can get a sig that’s also not drop safe for half the price?

[@jordancurrie1756]

😂

[@El_Peto]

What about a hi point? 1/20th

[@SM-tg7yw]

I just closed my eyes for budget reasons

[@MickNelson-fb2qk]

I carried a series 70 Colt in LE knowing it was not drop test safe. The Agency knew too. It never became an issue. That Agency and the SO I also retired from didnt care either!

[@HWG-wm8ld]

And plenty still use them to this day, not an issue.

[@kenforbus1]

Its really a non-issue. I understand young shooters may not know about Series 70 guns and this video was explained it.

[@echo_research_and_development]

It does become an issue when the promoters of this gun kept saying "This gun passed drop tests of major police departments..." pretending it would be different.

[@johnbuntin7188]

Its Its awfully refreshing watching you take ALL comments good or bad with a grain of salt.

[@sakomeow]

There's an inherent balance in trying to blend a racegun and a duty gun - speed and safety are almost opposites when it comes to handguns. It's also very common to instinctively disregard a perceived safety concern because safety is soft or bad or whatever. Bottom line: If they're gonna put the word "Duty" anywhere near it, it needs to be drop safe. Things get dropped, especially when you're carrying them all day, every day. It's not difficult to make a 1911/2011 platform drop-safe, and it's not impossible to get a good trigger afterward. Whether this specific platform needs to be drop safe is another question - is this truly a failure of safety or more of a failure of marketing? The real rub I'd like to know - Is the New CS/C platform different? Or will that one pop too?

[@Solidous281r6]

Entry level 2011! Hmmm would an atlas be drop safe? Now I’m curious.

[@Trap-gg2jy]

Why is this HWG guy so adamant about defending the Stacatto. I was close to buying one but this and Garand Thumbs video completely turned me off to 2011s.

[@Vandius24]

I'll stick to my Kimber that's never jammed on me (Yes, I know everyone talks shit about Kimber, but if it works, it works.).

[@factsoftheconfederacy7151]

I’m sending emails to staccato and asking about the firing pins and return spring. I just think a $2600+ duty gun should have the titanium firing pin and stronger return spring.

[@Qpoueoor]

Facts don’t care that you spent $4500 fanboys. 😂

[@HWG-wm8ld]

$2500 simple Jack

[@LFDNC]

Either way, if I buy a duty gun for that price, I expect a FAR better gun in all respects than my Canik.

[@nickperez9560]

The way it goes off when it drops looks like its pointed straight at the ground so would it be that bad if it went off into the ground? Yes we don't want it to go off when dropped but if it does, it being pointed straight at the ground would be best right?

[@evilfrog588]

Yes it’s a series 70 pistols. They aren’t 100% drop safe. But if they are gonna market it as a duty pistol it shouldn’t be this easy. It sound take some decent hight.

[@DoWork316]

The fact you ate discussing legitimate Issues for a duty blaster is baffling. Not sure how your qualifications seem to not matter. Keep doing what you do.

[@ExpertOpinions805]

The comments on that clip are aids.

[@w.w.9047]

They act like this is something new. Non FPS 1911 style pistols have been doing this since day one. But people are stupid, so here we are.

[@chrisb9478]

Didn’t Springfield fix this issue on their series 70’s 1911’s years ago by using a titanium firing pin with a heavier firing pin spring?

[@MrAvidOutdoorsman]

Hm seems a problem to me that could have a simple fix/upgrade 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@ChrisJanes-n2b]

I’m in Texas and see/hear of lots of LE carrying Staccato so this is really interesting!

[@DSQGHOST]

Nah it’s not deal breaker but….. Am I the only one or do I feel like for $2000+ would be nice for them to be an series 80 . I mean my $600 guns come with firing pin blacks it’s not like it’s an unreasonable thing to ask for a gun in that price .

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Get some education on the different series. There is a reason.

[@DSQGHOST]

@@HWG-wm8ld well have you shot a series a good series 80 and 70 side by side ? Because I have. Its an excuse normally by companies is the tiger is way batter in the series 70. But I grew up shooting 1911 , my dad had both series 70 and series 80 from colt and there was not a very no much of difference since colt did their job right back then when they use to care ,the reality is just companies bs costumer and tell them all this stuff so they can get away with selling a gun with less manufacturing hrs cost and have a higher profit .

[@walterwilliams268]

Bul Armory 2011’s don’t do that fyi……..

[@Mako-sz4qr]

Cool you read my comment “Oh well bro”. I didn’t mean it any bad way. Cheers bro 🍻👍🏻🇺🇸

[@TheDemocraticNationalCommittee]

lol love your shirt

[@Lowspeedoperator]

Drop test "triggers many" I see what you did there. 😂😂😂

[@owensthomas]

After USPSA runs its course......Stoeger for President.

[@LFDNC]

I’ve watched a few of his videos and he has interesting commentary. Seems balanced. I’m disappointed that he’s not bigger on KZbin.

[@justinl8455]

So why is it marketed as a duty firearm ? But it can’t pass a drop test ? I mean what if a officer or somebody is chasing somebody and they drop their gun as a running or they get into a scuffle and the gun drops and then it could go off

[@HWG-wm8ld]

I’ll repeat, do you have any clue how many cops and military personnel have used series 70 1911s since 1911? They have negligent discharges all the time with SA/DA and striker guns all the time.

[@gec-o2167]

That t-shirt LMAO

[@marvolovesgod385]

Jesus Christ loves you so much and died for your sins🖤

[@SOG487]

Any chance you get an Archon Type B and try it out?

[@mikeryan657]

Are there any competition oriented double stack 1911s that are drop safe, like based on a model 80 or have a similar firing pin safety design?

[@ChuckSneed88]

Para ordnance. They are no longer in business but you can still find them around. I have 3 and they're all excellent.

[@gameragodzilla]

Seconded the Para Ordnance frame. Built my custom gun off that frame and it was a Series 80 frame. That being said, no competition specific guns are Series 80, since Series 80 does have a mushier trigger due to part of the trigger pull being the disengagement of the firing pin block (this is also why most 1911 aficionados prefer Series 70). It’s not 100% drop safe, but the risk is very unlikely and the gun shoots better, which for them is a worthwhile tradeoff. Whether that is the case for you will depend, but if you want maximum drop safety, get a Series 80 frame.

[@ChuckSneed88]

@@gameragodzilla Para had a bunch of lines of competition specific guns. The original builder frame kits were certainly marketed more towards competition shooters than anything else. When they started selling full guns around 1990 they very quickly made series called the "Limited" specifically for IPSC limited division. I have a stock early p16 limited in 40 s&w. It is series 80 and has about a 2.5lbs trigger with like no take up and an extremely clean break and mouse click reset. No trigger work ever done to the gun, never even adjusted the pretravel or over travel bc it was perfect out the box. It is a better trigger than most series 70s I've shot. They also had the Todd Jarret pistols, The pro custom series/the thommassi pro custom, eventually they were even making a line of specific single stack guns for Wild Bunch competitions. All of them were series 80. In my experience series 80 doesn't inherently mean bad trigger and its also worth noting there's many variations of series 80 with many companies doing it differently (kimber for instance does some weird stuff and also uses a swartz style safety) and also that when the series 80 came to be a lot of the series 80 guns being sold were cheaper more budget line guns (think along the lines of the colt 1991) and that they wouldn't have come with nice well tuned triggers to begin with anyways. This was also after colt had some legal issues iirc with the guns being drop safe and I think they started selling more guns with heavier triggers to avoid liability anyways even with having the series 80 design. In my experience my series 80 paras all have excellent triggers.

[@gameragodzilla]

@@ChuckSneed88 Yeah and my custom Para frame 1911 does have a really excellent trigger as well, though I can still feel some of the mush before hitting the true wall and a nice clean break. With that said, I still found that a super tuned Series 70 trigger will be better than an equally super tuned Series 80 trigger. That’s just simple physics, hence why I understand people preferring Series 70. But you’re right in that Series 80 1911s can be made to still have excellent triggers, far and way superior to any striker fired pistol, while also having a firing pin block. It’s also why I wanted my custom 1911 to be Series 80 and one of the reasons I opted to get a stripped down Para Ordnance frame.

[@aleks2194]

Just for kicks can you drop the shadow 2 as well, without safety too like if it was dropped during a stage

[@onpsxmember]

Only as long as it isn't modified, not involving far weaker springs and extended firing pins. It could pass. The modified one already got an RO to the grave being dropped on the hammer.

[@FabianStrategy-76]

He did that one already

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Drop every gun you own?

[@mynameisjeff6988]

@@HWG-wm8ld I do, thankfully beretta's have drop safeties.

[@aleks2194]

@@FabianStrategy-76 and what happened

[@RetARMYjohn]

Here we go again😂 love your style man.

[@camdonmaydew876]

I love that you do this. Not gonna lie, if I had spent that much money on a pistol and thought it was drop safe only to later watch this video, I would be seething or coping or both.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

We knew it wasn’t drop safe, everyone that owns 70 series 1911 knows this. It’s a very specific drop, not just any way.

[@ZeeGerman36]

Let's add fuel to the fire - Kimber and their take on the Swartz safety. What are your thoughts? I know the general complaint is that if the grip safety timing is off, it will fail to fire. However, that seems like the best way to have a firing pin block in a 1911 pattern without affecting the trigger pull and feel. I have a 2009 Kimber TLE/RL II which basically runs well. I qualify with it as an off duty weapon. I knew going in that 1911s were a lifestyle type gun and they need understanding and more TLC. I ended up pulling the FP safety out to run a Wilson HD extractor but added a titanium firing pin and Wolff XP FP spring.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Kimber went to shit in the early 2000s. That’s my thought

[@echo_research_and_development]

There is no other manufacturer that use the Swartz system to my knowledge, and for a good reason. I have dealt with a Kimbet with one, and I have nothing good to say about Swartz. It makes that so called "grip safety" that I hate even more funkier. That moment when you feel as if your trigger barely scratching past the grip safety internal block when your grip is not perfect. Now it also does it with the firing pin block. Also, having a firing pin block disengaged the whole time you are gripping the pistol does not make sense to me. I would much rather choose Series 80 which never gave me any problem.

[@gameragodzilla]

The problem with the Swartz firing pin block safety is you need to fully depress the grip safety in order for the gun to fire, which isn’t really conducive with modern shooting techniques. There’s a reason modern 1911 grip safeties are sensitized with a hump on the bottom, all so you can disengage the safety and fire even without fully depressing it (and even then, a lot of people resort to rubber banding the safety). The Colt Series 80 trigger deactivated firing pin block is far more reliable, of course at the cost of a mushier, lower quality trigger. But in guns, reliability is king first.

[@christopherkapic]

I don’t know if I am the only one in the whole world, but blue lights look blurry to me so I’d rather go with a red dot than a green dot. Also, it’s a shame that there are no Schwartz safety 2011s. Seems like the perfect solution (dropsafe and Series 70 trigger) as long as QC is good.

[@dentonadam]

Drop a Stock 2 or any of your Tanfos next! I am curious how they will do...and am poor and don't want to drop my favorite comp gun. Do it. I know they have a firing pin block but it is a different type of block that most pistols.

[@PolymerLad]

If you put rosin on your hands you could avoid dropping it. 😅

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Gorilla glue, get with the times.

[@Mrgunsngear]

🇺🇸

[@freshtapcoke]

If you weren’t expecting the negative reaction, you might say you AD’d them.

[@MilkBone3327]

Nice shirt! 😂

[@wvlongshooter3912]

The problem with this is it hurts people’s feelings. They marry a brand of a product and it’s always the best. It’s called ignorance, thanks!!!

[@blantant]

Hey internet comment section, it's SO obvious! -People flexing how they are sooo smart probably

[@Shelto]

On the note about AR-15s not being drop safe, one thing that always tripped me out was the free float pin. If you drop the bolt and chamber a round then check out the primer, youll see a tiny mark, just not enough to ignite it.

[@NDcompetitiveshooter]

I believe there are incidents of those going off though. I believe they call it a "slam fire."

[@davereloader8837]

This is why is is so critical that the rifle be pointed in a safe direction when charging.

[@LFDNC]

@@NDcompetitiveshooterI didn’t know it was possible until a swat guy told me it had happened to him. To be fair, the same guy took an AR in that he had never fired, didn’t “need” it, and only found out about an issue later at the range testing suppressors.

[@LFDNC]

@@davereloader8837I changed my training to make this part of it.

[@jameskozlowski5496]

The cci400 small rifle primer cups are softer than most and are more suitable to slam fire. Use the 450 magnums if you are a reloaded. For any semi auto rifle

[@evanf7334]

But but but Ben m-m-my staccato doesn’t do that😡 also l-l-like why would you ever drop your gun bro😭🤓

[@potentpoefie]

Is it a big deal if you drop it and it fires? I don't care. You shouldn't drop the gun. But then the same people that say this isn't a big deal made a massive issue with the sig p320. Something you had to drop at a very funny angle at the right time when the moon aligned. Because it did pass the standard drop tests.

[@JRC1221]

Ben, I have a drop test theory. Can you do your staccato drop test the same way with an x300 light attached.

[@SEAKPhotog]

I replaced my stock P safeties with extended safeties (Double Tap). They made a very positive ergonomic difference for me, as well improving their function.

[@paulkonar7842]

Where can I find your video of the drop test? I could not find it on Instagram or KZbin? Can you please provide a link to be able to watch it?

[@TheKoreanMarksman]

How many rounds had the firing pin spring taken at that point?

[@rurouniad]

Remoil boys assemble!

[@jado4149]

Springfield uses a titanium pin and double extra power spring to help minimize the chances of it going off. I'll have to drop one and see if it works.

[@derrick11boutain]

The auto adjusting holosun needs to be discontinued. If it can adjust instantly maybe... I've had issues with this in a local match. Turn that function off, don't need it.

[@tinyfox7349]

As a community, we should expect are firearms are getting better, not worse

[@bryanslittlegarage5724]

It’s is a preference my eyes like the green better and my hit factor is way better with a circle dot combo. The scs 320 is the optic I am shooting.

[@hpmizan1244]

Wait, is it not drop safe with the safety on?

[@daninva6458]

Correct. The only thing preventing the firing pin from hitting the primer is the firing pin return spring. If this thing falls muzzle down fast enough, the pistol stops and the firing pin keeps moving.

[@abledemo1]

Its not a deal breaker but it is something a person should educate themselves on and make an informed decision for themselves.

[@den_see]

Oh wow, so you did the drop test that soon? Good on you Ben! Even with a newer gun, with presumably fresher springs, the gun still went off. I grew up on the 1911 so this does not come as a surprise. But good on ya for doing that drop test and getting the conversation going. If you are willing, can you do a drop test on one of your tanfoglios too? I know it has a drop/firing pin safety but due to the design, it may still conceivably discharge a round if dropped at a forward angle wherein the slide would be out of battery enough that the firing pin lifter arm on the receiver wont be holding up the firing pin block on the slide.

[@svenskaskene199]

I want to see the staccato P drop from multiple angles, no balls.

[@pranavkamath4329]

Should test this with a titanium firing pin and/or an extra power firing pin spring

[@CA.0verview]

6:17 Definitely would like to hear what Ben thinks after collecting information.

[@echo_research_and_development]

It is a bit disappointing. I am aware of what series 70 is. So, it is not surprising. However, there are also claims out on the net saying to the effect of, "This gun has passed drop tests of many departments...." There are people here whining, "It's a series 70, this is nothing new...blah blah." but AT THE SAME TIME, "Not a problem! It still passes standard drop test...blah blah." Isn't this cognitive dissonance? Why was an issue known since the Series 70 not fixed for decades? If a so called "standard drop test" passes a gun with an issue known for decades then what is that so called "standard drop test" even testing? For me personally, it may be argued that the slim probability of dropping the gun at an exact attitude is outweighed by the benefit of having a gun a shooter can be accrate with. Although 1911 or 2011 is not my preference for securiy purpose. So, I would not be opposed to anyone choosing to use it. However, I question why Series 80 AFPB is not more prevalent. People whine about Series 80 trigger actuating the firing pin block making the trigger bad. But, the Series 80 Commander I tried was not bad at all, and I do not feel even my Staccato P trigger is any better. There appears to be no willingness to innovate here.

[@gameragodzilla]

That’s not cognitive dissonance. That’s just pointing out that a Series 70 1911 like a Staccato 2011 isn’t 100% drop safe (known thing for over a century) but is still drop safe *enough* to pass industry standards, ie you’d need to push it to a fairly extreme situation to get it to go off like that, where you drop it directly on the muzzle on a really hard surface. Now a firing pin block would allow it to pass even that scenario, but it then comes down to at what point is the risk of a discharge on drop so low that it’s not worth the trade offs. As for the quality of the trigger, most duty oriented 1911s are Series 80. My Sig 1911, for example, is Series 80, as are most Colts that are duty oriented. However, Series 80 1911s do have worse triggers. It may not be enough worse for you to notice, but it’s there since there is always that extra mush from the lever pushing up against the spring loaded firing pin block. That doesn’t exist with a Series 70 1911, so the trigger is always better. Ultimately, it always comes down to tradeoffs. Do you want a gun that’s drop safe enough to pass normal standards but isn’t 100% in exchange for a nicer trigger? Or are you willing to accept a worse trigger in exchange for guaranteed drop safety? Thing is, most 1911 guys actually prefer the former, since the drop safety issue isn’t that big a deal and the gun genuinely shoots nicer.

[@echo_research_and_development]

@@gameragodzilla You keep making excuses for it while ignoring the fact that the promoters of this pistol kept alluded this pistol would be different from other Seris 70, saying "It passed drop tests...blah blah." Had they just said this was no different from any other Seris 70, we would not be having this talk, would we?

[@gameragodzilla]

@@echo_research_and_development It did pass drop tests. Hell, so did the original 1911 back in the day. It just doesn’t pass every possible drop test due to lacking a firing pin block, hence the creation of the Series 80 design.

[@echo_research_and_development]

@@gameragodzilla So, a drop test that passes an issue known for decades, misleading of you ask me.

[@gameragodzilla]

@@echo_research_and_development Again, it passes standard drop tests, just not all possible drop tests. It’s like the complaints about the G36 melting. It didn’t melt when it was used within design parameters, but once it started being pushed far beyond that, it ran into accuracy issues related to the polymer becoming soft. When used normally, a Series 70 1911 won’t discharge when dropped. However, in a rare and weird scenario, it can, which a Series 80 firing pin block would stop. So it depends on what level of risk you’re willing to take. For decades, a Series 70 wasn’t deemed unsafe (doubly so since if it did discharge, it just shoots into the ground. Jeff Cooper even talked about it back in the day).

[@Jello998]

Btw just wondering what is that shirt you wearing 😂😂

[@NakSuKaoGearReviews]

Buy an S2C and do a drop test.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

We will get right on that

[@joie0]

What’s your opinion on the issues with the p320 considering the issues CZ has had with the shadow 2? I’ve heard more stories about gun ADs with S2’s than the p320 in the practical shooting world. Admittedly, I shoot the x5 but I’m not brand loyal. What’s good is good and what’s bad is bad.

[@FabianStrategy-76]

AFAIK every AD involving the Shadow 2 has happened with a gun that has been modified with an extended firing pin and lighter springs. The S2 in its stock configuration appears to be safer if dropped. Ben did a drop test with a Shadow not too long ago. Search his previous videos to see him discuss the results.

[@jd43tv56]

Great perspective... never stop annoying the right people!😂

[@Rdctd6969]

Regarding green dots, they will absolutely wash out in daylight conditions in thick green foliage. Think scanning treelines, draws ect... for competition, won't matter at all, but real-world use, it definitely has downsides imo vs red.

[@Kain8719]

I have heard the green dot is a fairly large negative under NODs as well. Has been the reason I have been given why most guys doing night work, SF, ect, have remained using red dots only.

[@leftyo9589]

i run green dots, and it has not been my experience of them washing out while scanning tree's/foliage etc. ive done it several times just to see.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Wrong about under nods in many ways.

[@davereloader8837]

This has been my experience in the bright NC summers. Everything is a shade of bright green. Sun through foliage can be very bright green. Maybe not a problem for somebody who always shoots against berms or in desert, etc.

[@rolotomase1440]

Pretty clear Redbeard never heard of the Doodieproject

[@impcec6734]

Online gun bros are catty, nothing else to it.

[@Osprey1994]

Honestly, saying the Stacc is an entry level 2011 is so out of touch. Tisas-Prodigy are entry level at this point. I really like the grip texture on the Prodigy, and the mags are relatively affordable, so that's the direction I went. All in, the gun is still a couple hundred cheaper than a BUL 2011. PS. I just find it funny. I feel like the more entry level guns have been out for a bit now. 2011's have become pretty accessible at this point.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

I’m sure they find my G5 an entry level private aircraft. No, I don’t, but I’m making a point.

[@NateRunsGuns]

It's the entry level DUTY handgun. Anything cheaper and youre in prodigy/bul armory territory. 2011's are just an expensive platform altogether.

[@SOG487]

Where did you get that shirt LMAO!!!!!!

[@TeensierPython]

Technically an AR15 isn’t drop safe either. The firing pin is floating.

[@IMFDB]

That why nato ammo has hardened primers in 5.56. 9mm nato also has hardened primers from the winchester m1xxx bullets I’ve taken apart.

[@CA.0verview]

5:24 lol I can’t believe there are females hating on Ben 😂

[@wompy-ru]

Yea that's a no from me dog, can't strike a guy in the face with a staccato either then

[@slick4415]

Its an expensive staccato is all people know most people dont know the series 70 shenanigans most people come from a drop safe firearm

[@HWG-wm8ld]

You need remedial English

[@onpsxmember]

How is the book iteration coming along?

[@mygoodsir539]

Is the title of the vid a pun?

[@2of2DCH]

I like the drop tests cos we get to see the Mach 1.

[@bryanslittlegarage5724]

I would like to see you change out the firing pin spring and see what happens

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Nothing

[@dutch4260]

I wonder if Springfield 1911s/2011s do the same thing, they all have lighter titanium firing pins that are also smaller in diameter than those found on the Staccato P. The idea that these lighter firing pins would solve or mitigate the issue keeps coming up but I would love to see that theory tested.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Look mr science, it’s all series 70 1911s….all brands. Find me a story of a cop or mil guy that dropped their 70 series 1911 and it went off. Then search for NDs from cops with SA/DA and striker fired drop safe guns….they go off with not being dropped.

[@dutch4260]

@@HWG-wm8ld I don't know any mil guys I only know moa guys

[@justinmoore4088]

@Ben Stoeger Great video! 😂

[@fadugleman]

Nice shirt lol

[@piouswhale]

Hey Ben - how’d you get into shooting if your dad wasn’t into it growing up? My dad is similar. He hunted and was in the Marines but never did competition stuff. Always curious to hear other people’s stories.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

My dad was a door gunner in nam, he said a gun was too easy and was into archery.

[@piouswhale]

@@HWG-wm8ld Door Archer, that's the real soldier's job. lol

[@LFDNC]

Those boys in Vietnam were the last of a certain type of man. I knew a guy who flew Dust Off in Vietnam, and I’m surprised those boys could walk. JD would talk about getting flak like it was just Tuesday. Turns out, it was.

[@QuickStrikes84]

First of all, how many deaths or injuries had happened with a dropped service 1911? They were ALL series 70. You'd have to fall pretty freakin high for it to go off in your holster because your crumbling bones and body tissue would absorb a lot of the deceleration and you'd be already f@cked. Can you drop it on top of someone's head or some other bony part juuuuuuust right and high enough for it to go off? Possible but still extremely unlikely. If it upsets you, just get a lighter firing pin and/or stronger firing pin spring and retest. This was always known about every series 70 1911/2011. Lots of us don't care and still prefer the simpler design with less parts. The people comparing it to the sig 320 are mechanically clueless. And Ben, you ARE a 💩 stirrer sometimes.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

That was my question. Find me a story of this happening with cops and mil guys since 1911. Find me a story of NDs with cops using SA/DA and striker drop safe guns that go off, they don’t even get dropped, their finger is on the trigger. Something that could happen vs something that happens all the time.

[@echo_research_and_development]

​​​ Do you have any empirical statistic to back up your claim that striker and DA/SA pistols have higher rate of unintended discharge per unit in use? There is no shortage of unintended dischargs stories in 1911 forum.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Empirical? Okay dork When Glock came out cops shot themselves. Many departments went with SA/DA because they know cops are incompetent. Now they are doing it again with the 320

[@gameragodzilla]

1911s going off when dropped on the muzzle at sufficient height is a known thing, but also generally wasn’t considered a problem because it’s incredibly rare for it to happen and even if it did happen, it’s firing muzzle down into the ground, so no one is in the line of fire. Jeff Cooper even brought it up back in the day. Evidently a lot of people have no idea how 1911s work or what their history is, which is just kinda sad.

[@CA.0verview]

0:44 red beard actual ? Fuck red beard actual .

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Damn, that was funny! Guess he is the platoon commander of red beard? Is that a video game?

[@steelercurtain]

That shirt!!!! Hahahaha

[@paulh6101]

Marketing a series 70 1911 as a duty weapon is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Just ask sig...and they are actually duty grade pistols.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Do you have any clue how many cops and military personnel have used series 70 1911s since 1911?

[@paulh6101]

@HWG-wm8ld do u have any clue the point of my statement? No, no u don't.

[@immikeurnot]

@@HWG-wm8ld And? In WWII, my grandfather was part of a unit that recovered and reworked unexploded ordnance. Nobody will even TOUCH that stuff these days because it's too dangerous. Times change and safety standards go up.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

We still use them today. People have more NDs due to stupidity with drop safe guns, should the companies market them as not idiot safe?

[@wheezzl]

Love the shirt!

[@youeladamas7840]

For the price they cost you would think titanium so that wouldn’t happen as likely

[@HWG-wm8ld]

You don’t understand what’s the issue. It’s the design in series 70 1911s. Find me a story of this happening outside of purposefully dropping it on an exact point.

[@youeladamas7840]

I get the issue but they use a lighter pin in upgrades so it weight doesn’t strike primer with force

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Lighter pins cause light primer strikes. There is nothing wrong with a 70, period.