Setting vocal gain using an analog console (A&H GL-2400)

Setting gain for vocals is important to a good sound, but also important for control of feedback.
Proper gain settings for vocals will aid in how well the vocals will "sit" in a live sound mix.
Gain settings should rarely be adjusted once they are set (as part of a sound check). However, small amounts of gain adjustment is acceptable to fine-tune a channel during a show.
-- DO NOT use the gain controls to mix your sound.
-- Gain controls should NOT be used as faders.

[@ratboyninja]

For anybody that doesnt know the gain knob is used for boosting mic level signal to line level. It is not a mixing knob. Faders are for adjusting levels.

[@FOHGeek]

Level normalization

[@charlesfick729]

What many people fail to mention in these video's, although most things are covered very well, is that if during the show a channel begins to redline or clip {singers put out more than "test test" and guitar players turn up, drummers hit harder....you get the drift}, you reach for the gain control and turn it down. This will fix the hot gain and reduce distortion but it also affects the monitor level because the gain is the input say, overall volume. My general rule of thumb is if the gain gets turned down to reduce clipping, the channel slider "and" monitor send for that channel is turned up slightly to compensate for the gain reduction. Sometimes it's not too noticeable but they do go down when reducing gain. Also, that's which ever monitor that particular channel is in. That's all, nice presentation!!

[@corvinius3]

I do the same thing for my mix...As the singer perform the actual input signals also changes so its also important to do a soundcheck while the band is playing.

[@IslandDustin]

Yes, and yes. Key is in sound check to get each singer to sing at the same level in sound check as they would in the performance. I prefer the entire band to run through a song together, and I'll fine tune the input gains, then ask again how they need monitors adjusted. I'm hearing this guy say "check 1 2" as his sound check - - and this would be terrible to allow my singers to send me this low level of sound, they need to holler out a chorus so I can set a real gain input!

[@cyrusgitonga7984]

Some of that could be tweaked if your board has fold back

[@remeshreji848]

This was a great help. I was under study. u have explained in detail, i believe. Thanks a lot brother. I was searching in youtube for these details. Once again i thank u from kerala, india.

[@Zamsky39]

I really like the stereo in the voice recording here. So much space and air ^^ Much more pleasant to hear than other videos.

[@benballard7521]

Thanks so much. This helped me so much on understanding the gain.

[@IG-xw1sl]

Great Video lesson!

[@dinoguan1]

Thanks. Very clear explanation

[@stageleftaudio]

You are welcome!

[@BlckBox]

Found this video super easy to follow, was hoping you would follow up with the instruments, couldn't find the video in your catalogue.

[@stageleftaudio]

Thank you for your comment. You are correct, we do not have any instrument videos for this console. However, other videos we have ("mixing the band") will probably show gain settings for guitars and other instruments during sound check, however using other analog (and digital) consoles.

[@tomdandymusicandeverythingelse]

I just use a microphone wonder what i could get out of my voice.. great explained

[@thomas9469]

Hello I have couple questions. When check each mic the volume fader need to be all the way low correct. Also I see the knobs next or high , mid, and low The hedz knob is turned all the way down is that what u recommend. Please help.

[@stageleftaudio]

Yes, it usually works best to keep the fader all the way down when setting the gain, this allows for the person on the console to concentrate on setting the signal levels. It is a common practice to keep the hertz knobs turned all the way to the left, while keeping the volume knobs (the knobs above the hertz knobs) in a center position; this is called the "home position". Keeping the hertz and volume knobs in a "home" position (when not in use), makes it easier to see what frequencies are being added (or subtracted) for that channel... because the volume knobs will be in a different position (from straight up/down), and the hertz knob will probably be moved from the far left setting.

[@mandodosinaga5098]

Tutorial for live streaming from mixer gl2400, please!!!

[@dangertreez]

The question is " do you set EQ before or after Gain? " the correct answer is... The channel strip EQ is normally adjusted after the gain is set. Please keep in mind that before the channel EQ can be adjusted the front of house PA must be EQed, this can be done old school with recorded music you are familiar with, or with a spectrum analyzer and pink noise. If the pa is not done first then the channel strips will be EQed improperly. The normal order before channel strip EQ is, EQ the PA, set vocal mic input gains, ring out monitors without PA up, EQ vocals for tone. Leave vocal mics hot and set instrument stage volume and their individual eq's, starting with drums, then bass, then keys, guitars etc. the monitors will pick up instruments and contribute to overall stage volume and tone. Some will say, " what if I get feedback, won't it be hard to figure out where it's coming from with monitors up? " well if you have done the proper EQing it won't likely be an issue. Furthermore, you will need monitors up with the instruments all playing anyway, so better know before hand if they are going to play nice with each other. The last and likely most important thing is to leave system headroom... Plenty of it! Never max out your mains ! Leave at least 20% on the main amps to prevent clipping or you run the risk of heat shutdown or worse a blow out! It's also a good idea to put a limiter on the mains to prevent speaker damage should a nasty transient or mic hit the floor. And make sure you have some room to increase mains out on the console as the show progresses, nothing worse than a neutered console during the crescendo! Hope this answers a few questions.

[@greenpea9412]

Do you use a "TEQ" to ring out your monitors then use a "PEQ" for individual channels and the over all mains?

[@frankkruger2777]

Stephen Moore

[@paulgregg356]

Stephen Moore Tks!

[@otlmusik5]

Thanks for the video, so how would it be if I have an Avalon 737 and Neumann tlm 103, would I have to leave the levels on the preamp on unity gain and make the adjustments on the mixer?

[@stageleftaudio]

Units like the Avalon are a "self-contained" processing unit. It may be best to plug the Neumann mic directly into the Avalon and let the Avalon be the mic preamp. Send the output of the Avalon into a channel XLR input on the mixer. Keep all EQ settings flat on the mixer channel where the Avalon is plugged into. You may want to start with the gain all the way down on the mixer, and use the Avalon for the mic gain (though, it's possible you may need to add a little gain on the mixer channel). You will still need to use the channel fader on the mixer to control the volume level. Basically, use the Avalon for all your mic control, and the mixer fader to control the volume.

[@Clowninabag]

So wish you all would do a series like this for digital boards.

[@bryelg.9939]

Can someone who has experience in audio mixing explain what are faders in the mixer use for?

[@rosesexxi3695]

From the little I know, the sliders or the faders are used to output the sound from you mixer board. After getting the input volume, you EQ the sound from the input, then you send the EQed sound to your main PA with the fader.

[@manydreams1life315]

The problem I ALWAYS have with vocals and Toms is aster setting trim to - 18 db I have to use the compressor gain makeup to even get the signal over any other instruments with the same - 18 db. It doesn’t seem “right” but it’s the only way to get them “heard” in a mix.

[@stageleftaudio]

There could be a few reasons why the levels are lower in the mix. 1. The microphone sensitivity is too low (the type of mic used). 2. The microphone is a counterfeit and is not manufactured to spec. 3. Too much resistance in the cable for the attached mic. What mics are using for your vocals and toms? Also, what console are you using?

[@manydreams1life315]

@@stageleftaudio Shure KSM 8 vocals - Senheiser 604 for toms. But it's the same result with my other vocal mics (SM 58, Beta 58). I always seem to have to use the compressor to bump those up. Also, on toms - I should say it's mostly the rack toms. The floor tom comes through just like the kick would.

[@stageleftaudio]

The KSM 8 and Beta 58 have nearly identical sensitivities, both which are higher than the SM-58. There should be no issues getting input/gain from those mics. I'm assuming no matter what input you use on your board, you get the same "low-volume" results? What you may need to do is just increase the gain for the mic channels; but not too much gain, because feedback can occur. The vocal channels (using the PFL), should be around -3db to 0db when setting gain. The e604 mic has a good sensitivity, but may require more gain to get the full benefit of it. Make sure the tom mic is facing the center of the drum; also, the closer you can get the mic to the drum head, the better. The high and mid-toms (the actual drums), can be a little quieter than a floor tom when played. Set the gain for the tom mic to peaking around +9db (as a place to start). It's ok for percussive instruments to be hotter on a console.

[@manydreams1life315]

@@stageleftaudio I will give it a shot. I should add that I use the Behringer X32 rack and at times the Soundcraft U24 (both digital units).

[@stageleftaudio]

Those rack consoles are good. They should not be causing any issues.

[@WBrevig]

Interesting. I thought that unity gain was a desirable starting point. So that small incremental adjustments could be made at the channel fader.

[@chrish7336]

Don't confuse Unity gain settings with Unity Mixing, these are 2 different things. Unity gain is for a mixer that does not have the PFL option. Unity Gain when done properly will show the same thing on the meter as the PFL Button and just as the PFL mixers, you leave the gain alone after setting it and adjust the mix with the fader, just like you mentioned. Unity Mixing however is what stageleft was referencing to. This is when you set the faders to Unity and adjust the mix with the gain knobs. This is not a good thing. If you have a board with PFL then you can do this test to see how accurate setting gain at unity can be and compare it to using PFL. I would however recommend turning your amps way down before doing this. For a cleaner indication I would use a tone generator for the best side by side test instead of voice or music. 1- set everything on the channel at flat (eq) and fader to unity(0), set main output to Unity (0) 2- Just like using PFL bring up the gain until the level reaches -3 or whatever reference you are using. 3- click the PFL button and your meters should read the same thing. To be honest until recently I never used PFL for gain setting and always set Unity Gain. Now though I find PFL is a much needed tool to reference the gain level during a live performance where there is a severe dynamic range on the input.

[@stageleftaudio]

@@chrish7336 Thank you for the great response!

[@chrish7336]

@@stageleftaudio Thanks, I get it right once in a while.

[@thomas9469]

Can u please tell me the volume level need to be all the way down ? Or at the 0 mark. Also when compare AKGD5 mic vs Se V 7 which is better for female singer at the church. Where is the switch for the lamp. I have the same mixer at the church. Much appreciated.

[@stageleftaudio]

The fader volume level can be set all the way down when setting gain. The PFL meter for the channel will show how much gain is being set. Once the gain is get, the fader can be brought up in the FOH PA. There are some very old consoles (i.e. Mackie SR consoles) that required the fader to be around -0- when setting gain. Most all consoles made in the last 15 years do not require the fader to be adjusted for gain settings. For the mics, it doesn't matter which model should be used. The important thing is to listen to each mic and see which sounds better; and use that mic. The console does not have a power switch for the desk lamp. A&H may still sell an LED desk lamp for that console. The desk lamp has a power-switch on it. Hope this helps.

[@thomas9469]

@@stageleftaudio Thank you so much for the advice.

[@hoangtieu4407]

hi stageleftaudio, may i have a question? i have a wireless microphone how much volume at receive of micrphone have to turn on, also laptop, dvd player and a mp3 player. How much volume from those, i have to turn on to match with gain on mixer. Thanks

[@stageleftaudio]

If the wireless microphone has a volume level, set it in the middle (to start with). Then, adjust the input gain on the console. Other audio items like DVD/CD players will probably not have volume controls. You will need to control the volume of these devices using the channel trim/gain as well as the fader. For some MP3 players, you will need to use the headphone out jack. Set the volume level of the MP3 player fairly loud. The goal with setting the levels with any equipment attached to the console is to keep the channel level around -0- db (depending on they type of music or vocal).

[@ElishaJS14]

Our church has the same board as this, but we get nowhere near the meter level that you do with the same mic as the one you are using... I have to set ours to about the 3 - 4 O'clock position before it even gets close to being around the 0 mark on the meter. That's even coming from people who know how to properly use a mic. I think the only mic that doesn't have this issue, is our wireless lapel. So, my question(s) is this. Can your cable run effect the signal level that comes to the board? Such as the age of your cables and wire gauge? Can the age of the microphone also affect the signal level? I've looked all over the internet and haven't been able to find an answer. We've had 2 sounds boards with this issue of low signal input into the pre-amp, so I don't think it's a board issue...

[@stageleftaudio]

Interesting situation you have. For a cable run, it's usually safe to use up to about 300 ft. of "mic" cable; this would include the snake and whatever XLR cable lengths are used from the snake head to the mic. Using a cable longer than 300 ft. does not usually result in a loss of power, but of a loss of tone quality (the mic would probably sound different). The gauge of the XLR cable (or snake) should be around 20ga. Make sure there are no "XLR-to-TRS" converters anywhere in-line between the mic and the console. These converts can reduce the signal level. Does your situation involve all the non-wireless mics? Sometimes, if mics are used a lot, they can develop a "dust shield" inside the mic on the foam screen; basically, a layer of dust embedded in the foam caused from the humidity of people talking/singing into the mics. The foam would need to be removed from the mic and washed out... and of course, thoroughly dried before placing the foam back into the mic. For testing: connect a mic directly to one of the channels on the console using a normal XLR cable (by-passing the snake). If the mic still sounds quiet (and the foam screen is not dirty), check that the "Line/pad" switch (at the top of the channel input) is NOT set to "Line" (the button may be pushed in). The symptoms of what you mentioned sound like the channels have been "padded". From what I recall, the "Line/pad" button should be in the up position for normal console usage.

[@orlynlabay8425]

thanxs learned a lot...

[@yevheniimelnyk8911]

Hello I have question if during the live event I have 4-5 people who talks in mic alternately do I need all the time adjust the gain ,or just use my fader (some people speak loud and keep mic close ,and some people do it in opposite direction) thanks you do great video!!!

[@stageleftaudio]

There's usually no need to re-adjust the gain once it is set. Their channel fader can be used to control their volume. Though, the trick is to find a good gain setting that works for the speakers who talk loudly and those who talk softly; this can be tricky to establish. But, it usually doesn't take very long to find an average gain setting that works. Start here - Try setting the gain (best gain possible) for the person who speaks the quietest. It can be difficult to project a quiet person over a PA, even when maxing out their channel fader... so it's important to focus the level of gain for the quietest person (up to a point). If there's too much gain for the quiet person, there will be feedback. If there is feedback, lower the gain just a little. For speakers who talk loudly, there's usually no need to adjust the gain, unless their channel "overload", or "peak" lights flash as they talk... if this happens, lower the gain till the "peak" lights turn off. There is a balance between loud and soft speakers... it just takes a little time to find it. You may have already done this, but I will mention it in case others are reading this post -- Another option would be to educate the soft talkers to place the microphone directly in front of their mouths and when they speak, have them speak as if there is no PA. For the loud talkers, have them move the microphone a few inches away from their mouth. Thanks for the comment.

[@yevheniimelnyk8911]

+stageleftaudio thanks a lot for answer also interesting topic how do you do gain for main pa,after when you done with console,,,I mean no matter how big is your event you always try to keep your signal around 0 position correct??? after Soundboard you just trim the output signal from amplifier????

[@stageleftaudio]

The way you mentioned is a way to control the level, Though, there's a couple of different ideas about how to set the amplifiers. We run our amplifiers with their attenuaters at full open. We try not to run the main outs (the actual FOH faders) on the console past -0- db. Though, we use a Driverack to help limit any "overload" signals. Our amps occasionally peak, but not too bad. The idea is when the console output lights are "clipping", the amplifier(s) are clipping - by setting it up this way, you should be able to tell when the amplifier(s) are clipping based on what you see on the console. However, depending on how many devices are in place between the console and the amplifiers (drive rack/xover, EQ, limiter) , this type of setup may not be a good choice. Make sure limiters are set on the amplifiers and try not to run the amps continuously in the red "zone".

[@yevheniimelnyk8911]

+stageleftaudio thanks But sometimes i have situation when power of pa system more than enough,and i have to try amp level 40-50 % because if i turn on 100 it will be super loud

[@stageleftaudio]

If your PA system is more than enough, just keep the FOH fader down. You don't need to run FOH at -0- db. What is important, is to manage the levels on the channels (the signal levels). Managing the FOH level is different than the individual channel levels. It's ok to turn down the amplifier attenuators some, however, when the attenuators are down, it requires more input voltage (from the console) to drive the amplifiers. If the attenuators are down too much, and you are running FOH high (based on the FOH meters), this can produce an overload in the input stage (the inputs) of the amplifier. This will result in distortion for the amplifier, which will result in audible distortion. You will probably have better control of your system by turning the attenuators up and keeping the FOH fader down.

[@voicewithin9316]

When gain staging I heard having the channel volume and mains volume at 0 dB (unity) then setting gain after that... that goes it’s done?

[@stageleftaudio]

Mixing using the gain knobs is a bad way of mixing for several reasons. Consider this... if mixing using the gain knobs was the correct way of mixing, there would be no need for any faders. Use the gain knobs to get the maximum level from the microphone or device as is needed. Then, use the faders to bring those levels up/down as needed.

[@voicewithin9316]

stageleftaudio right. But my question is, for example on one channel, do the faders have to be all the way down or at unity volume level to set the gain. I understand that mixing with the gain is bad. So is there a reference where the channel fader should be at to set gain? Or fader could be anywhere as long as the meter is reading a consistent signal and not clipping? Thanks

[@stageleftaudio]

Ah ok, sorry for the confusion. Thank you for the clarification. Most consoles do NOT require the faders to be at -0- db when setting gain levels; the faders can be all the way down (infinity), or anywhere. Setting the gain for most consoles is accomplished using the PFL meter for each channel. However, some consoles (older Mackie series comes to mind) required the faders to be at or near 0db or around or a few db less when setting levels (all depends on what the gain is that is being set). I'm not aware of any "official" reference point for fader position, but it is probably safe not to go above 0db.

[@nickloss2377]

BTW: the 'PFL ' switch stands for 'Pre-Fader Listen' ...meaning that the fader position has no effect on the amount of signal you are getting (like a solo button)... basically it is the unadulterated signal from the mic/source that the mixer is allowing to enter the mixing chain... the mixer will route the signal to headphones (if you're using them) and will also feed the board's meter so you can adjust to avoid clipping/distortion. Those problems have to be eliminated at that stage, because the fader and EQ will never be able to clean up the sound...also some boards have the ability for 'AFL' which is After/Post Fader Listen. This board also has a "Pre/Post" button under the EQ and another one below the AUX channels. If you're confused, just think of it this way: a channel strip is like a river feeding into a lake. the water from the river (the signal) flows from the cables plugged in at the back of the board and enters each individual channel strip at the very top. Everything on the channel strip is like a dam. If the dam at the very top is is not sufficiently open, by the time the flow gets to the lake (the speakers) it will only be a trickle. If too much water is being let in at the top, then the river will rush so fast it will overflow it's banks flooding and killing people (baaaad)! Adjusting each dam in order, from top to bottom to allow just the right amount of flow through will make sure there is no flood and the lake is fed at a proper level. The Pre/Post buttons simply follow those same rules. ie: the pre/post button below the EQ means that whatever you're listening to/feeding the meters will either be pre-eq (before the water hits the EQ-dam) or post-eq (ie: you will hear any adjustments to the EQ dials)

[@dariozagato]

If After setting the gain I apply a subtractive eq. Do I have to increase the gain to zero again?

[@stageleftaudio]

No. Any reduction in volume level is made up with the fader. Once the gain is set, there's no need to adjust it again (unless something changes, like mic position, or the use of a different mic).

[@dariozagato]

@@stageleftaudio and low cut?

[@stageleftaudio]

Same with low cut... gain stays set. Gain is not a volume control. Gain is input voltage; once the voltage is set, there's usually no need to re-set it. The fader is the volume control.

[@dariozagato]

@@stageleftaudio Thank you very much. I have no more doubts🤣 Greetings from Italy!

[@charlesfick729]

PS, I love this mixer, I have it too!

[@Wizardofgosz]

I don't agree at all that vocals are "easiest" thing to set. The human voice is as dynamic an instrument as any of the others you listed, and just as likely to cause overs as the others, if you gain it up too much in the beginning. Just set the gain level a little conservatively (just under zero) and use compression to take care of any big dynamic swings.

[@ivankrushensky]

I was thinking the same thing. Try setting mic gain for Slipknot lol...whispering, to screaming, back to whispering...then scream even louder than you did the first time

[@najtrows]

so.. doing this but with growl and screaming vocals would just be the same but having the singer screaming to test dynamics?

[@stageleftaudio]

Correct. As long as the performer is singing (or yelling) as they would during their performance, this should be adequate for setting levels. As the show progresses, you will need to keep aware of the mic levels and either increase for decrease their gain settings to keep the mic levels within reason.

[@najtrows]

stageleftaudio thanks!

[@ganpatchalke2507]

Ahuja 5000

[@isettech]

For me, one of the most important points was totally missed. Right on the board is a headphone jack. Plug in headphones. A hot channel will instantly sound hot. A low channel will instantly sound low when PFL. A channel with serious EQ problems, plosives needing the high pass, etc are very obvious. Using the meter only is operating deaf. Meters only is having a totally deaf guy set up a board. Use your ears and headphone in addition to the meter. Sound is important both ways. Some musicians are hard of hearing. Talkback is even more important when in ear monitors are used. Next to that on the deck of the mixer is an XLR jack. This is the TalkBack mic. If you are trying to communicate one or more appropriate monitors on stage can be selected to talk directly with the talent. This becomes very useful when operating FOH 90 feet away or FOH off one side of a 30 foot stage and you need to talk to people on the far side of the stage. Most of these training videos neglect to show use of headphones or talkback. I know most sound guys are not video experts, but an off camera field recorder picking up the instructor and the headphone audio of a live sound check would go far in helping people learn to set up pro sound.

[@stageleftaudio]

Thank you for the comment. Your response is valid and very important to running sound. Many of the videos we do are of actual events, which present logistics issues with the timing of the subject matter and the educational portion of it. We rarely use headphones at events to check levels and sound quality; all our levels are visible on the board, and when the channel is brought up for line-check, we can correct any EQ issues at that time using the FOH speakers (which is what everyone will here at the event). Occasionally we do use headphones to aid with talk back with performers or stage hands. However, we do use an intercom system when FOH needs to communicate with the monitor engineer or a stage hand when setting up instrument inputs. At some point in the future we may have a video covering the use of headphones and their role with talkback.

[@lareservaespecial7366]

Do you set eq before gain? Or gain before vocals?

[@lalsiamstudio]

Mixer is so cool .which mixer is it?

[@stageleftaudio]

The console is an Allen & Heath GL2400 (dual-function console).

[@lareservaespecial7366]

Do you set eq before gain? Or gain before equ?

[@stageleftaudio]

Grupo Estudiado It's best to set gain before setting EQ.

[@changedahanddlessss]

+Grupo Estudiado gain first... and usually subtractive eq.. well in the dj world anyways... i love this chan :) thanks for posting.. i knew that was a heath and allen.. good board!

[@ganpatchalke2507]

Yamaha 3232

[@ganpatchalke2507]

Vardhaman electronics

[@ganpatchalke2507]

dynacord 24

[@mostaphahani6856]

💯💯✔✔🤗🤗

[@Robinallenyukon]

do you live at an airport ? at 5:10 to 5:18 is that a plane in the background ? lol

[@stageleftaudio]

There are many small aircraft that fly around the area.

[@bladefaust148]

Guy sounds like Tom Green

[@kenwolf6293]

No faders just a Peavey P.A..was hoping to get more basic info and settings..ie top mid bottom.. position..but Ty anyway.. basically I run an open mic various musicians male female got let down by so called soundman..lol so as well as compere I run the sounds no complaints thus far just wanted heads up..

[@stageleftaudio]

Just remember to always cut frequencies first when trying to clean up a mix. And, don't try to pull too much gain from the mic; this is a leading problem with feedback.

[@ronieile6356]

instruments please

[@stageleftaudio]

We hope to have a video covering instruments (in a live setup) soon.

[@JohnMorris-ge6hq]

You were joking right?....About some people actually mixing from the gain stage knob...Joking right? Please tell me they don't work in the industry.

[@stageleftaudio]

Unfortunately, there are many people that use the gain knobs for mixing... it's a somewhat common practice. In fact Allen & Heath (in one of their manuals for a GL console) makes reference to NOT use the gain knobs for mixing.

[@roberthall2071]

We had a sound guy mix this way for our worship band, I never could get him to set the gain properly, he said he was trained this way. I do the sound now

[@Radhikabirdha]

FFx

[@woodywoodard1049]

You obviously DO NOT KNOW what you are talking about. The unity gain structure is there FOR the purpose of mixing. If all of your inputs are set at or near zero you will have no level coming through the faders of your desk. Coming from the pro touring end of the world, if you don't see most of the faders near zero on the desk, you have a newby trying to drive. If your gains are set correctly, with all faders at zero the band's dynamics come into play and the mixer (person not the desk) makes nuanced changes with the faders.

[@stageleftaudio]

Thank you for the comment. Are you referencing the "mixing at zero" section near the end of the video?

[@chrish7336]

@@stageleftaudio I have found that people are not paying attention and are confusing unity mixing and unity gain. Every one of these people just like Woody are talking about Unity gain when you were referencing unity mixing.

[@brijtoofar]

you could do it in 5 minutes, better. too much empty talk

[@guitarplayer5932]

this video could have been 50% shorter...stop blabbing

[@bwanablanton]

on the contrary, I think it was concise, well explained, and extremely helpfu.

[@bennyh4950]

Your post should have been 100% shorter.

[@guitarz99]

Ben Hubar your i.q could be 500% higher

[@brijtoofar]

boring