Stainless vs carbon steel (part 2 - the aftermath and conclusions)

[@Airik1111bibles]

I ran into an older gentleman at Walmart while shopping with my daughter the other day which was interesting. Needless to say the poor girl had to stand for 20 minutes listening to us "mainly him" debate over the carbon only thing. He was an Esee worshipper, yes they do exist😅, he had his Esee 4 or 5? strapped to his hip and an Esee neck knife the Izula I think thats the name. Anyways he was telling the employee that all knives pretty much must be 1095hc or they're crap, I pulled out my Mora Garberg and explained to him that the 14C28N has been awesome steel in my experience😮😯🤔 You would think I had said something bad about his momma cause he went into full defensive explanation mode on all the reasons why he uses 1095 LOL.....We had to walk away slowly leaving the Walmart guy with him, poor Walmart guy😂

[@SimonsDiscoveries]

:D This is why I try to get out of those conversations/monologues before they even begin properly :)

[@SpartanJohns]

I have had the same experience with trying to bend a Mora 546 back too. It snapped! I only broke 2 Moras in my life. A Carbon Clipper because I just wanted to see much effort I would have to put in until I broke it and the 546 trying to bend it back

[@SimonsDiscoveries]

SpartanJohns Good to know I didn't just get a faulty one. One is not a great sample size. Two is much better :) Thanks.

[@DiesInEveryFilm]

Interesting video my friend thanks for sharing

[@SimonsDiscoveries]

+Diesineveryfilm Customs Thanks. That's an old one but I still think the stainless by hultafors is better than by Mora. At least for my applications.

[@MasterofPlay7]

carbon steel would have better edge retention because there's less carbide pop out than stainless

[@HighCarbonSteelLove]

Great testing! Thanks for taking the time to make this "scientific" 2-part series. Of course, I was rooting for the Mora 511 high carbon :) I have the same Mora 511 and have beaten the crap out of it, as well. Great blade, very affordable! Glad to see that the whole stainless vs high carbon thing may not be all in my head from what I've seen in many videos. -Dave

[@SimonsDiscoveries]

HighCarbonSteel Love I was actually quite surprised to see it as the winner. It's a shame I wasn't able to test the stainless mora like the other ones. But to be honest, I'd had some bad experience with another stainless mora before, and knew there might be problems with them. Some time ago I had a stainless mora companion black 'bend' on me. But not the entire blade. Just a bit of the edge where I applied force got bulged out. I pushed it back in place but I felt a bit disappointed as there was no reason for it to happen while carving a green stick. It's happened to the same mora at least one more time. It's too small a sample to say but it's not looking good for stainless moras.

[@SimonsDiscoveries]

I have not. The broken mora simply couldn't take as much as the other knives but I don't think I could claim my money back for that :) The other problems I was talking about include rolling(even on wood), which can be fixed but is annoying as hell. It just doesn't happen with their carbon steel knives as far as I'm aware. I suppose their life-time warranty is all about not rusting and such. Plus, sending it to sweden, even fro the UK, would probably cost me almost as much as the knife LOL

[@tdi2007]

Thank you for making the video. It has helped me make a buying decision.

[@SimonsDiscoveries]

+Living Small I'm glat I could help. Thanks for watching.

[@davidsabau4306]

Yeah me too

[@xmoroseguyx]

You enquired on one of your video`s about the steel used on the Hultafors Stainless Steel Craftman`s Utility Knife, It has a Japanese Stainless Steel hardened to 57-59 HRC, And what they describe as a " Unbreakable " PP handle, I`ve seen it for sell for £ 6.84p Inc. vat

[@SimonsDiscoveries]

+xmoroseguyx Yup. I since discovered what steel it is. It's AUS-8. Thanks.

[@ramonrodriguez5728]

Good job. 👍

[@TheGaginator]

Awesome video thank you.

[@SimonsDiscoveries]

Gage Clements Thank you :)

[@bluebird1422]

gdzie nabrałeś koszulkę z głuszcem? rewelacja!

[@SimonsDiscoveries]

+bluebird1422 Dzięki :) Z Łowca Polskiego. Mają sklep "Jedność Łowiecka" i tam były dostępne. jednosclowiecka.pl/pl/searchquery/nadrukiem/1/phot/5?url=nadrukiem

[@MrPawPaw]

So I learned do not forage for grubs in logs with ss knives. They all seeme like great knives for the purpose their made for. Even the one that broke. If you ever get into a situation you have to attack a log like that your in a world of shit anyways. Alot of people seem too bound up by trying to find the perfect knife. Get what you like. It'll work for ya. I love my ss knives. My go too camping knives. Never think about them. I love my carbon knives when Im out adventuring. And enjoy cleaning em up afterwards. At that price point get one of each. One for dicing up tomatoes and one for digging for grubs. Lol Theyll both wittle wood. Was very enjoyable watching. Thank you.

[@SunShine-vr4km]

I found out that Hultafors are better than Moras (for the price). I've just purchased a Hultafors GK and a RFR. 👌⚡

[@johnnylorence2141]

Are you satisfied, I have gk and thinking of buying rfr?

[@MasterofPlay7]

Maybe I can put it for survival knives I think toughness/flexibility is more important because you hacking the knife on different material; while for carbon steel knives which is really hard and is design for delicate and precision cutting

[@SimonsDiscoveries]

MasterofPlay7 It depends on many more factors than just presence or absence of a significant amount of chromium in the alloy. There is 1055 high carbon which is a spring steel with only 0.5 - 0.6% of carbon (very flexible when tempered properly) and there is NC6 with 1.3% of carbon which may be relatively flexible when heat treated to obtain bainite structure but can also be extremely hard and brittle when hardened to martensite. 440C has between 0.95 and 1.05% carbon which is much more than in most carbon steel grades used by Condor, Cold Steel or Hultafors. Yet it is a stainless steel since it contains over 16% of chromium. In this test you can clearly see that the carbon steel is the more flexible one. It sprung right back to its shape, whereas the stainless bent and even broke. That is why most machetes, swords and other usable long blades are usually made from some sort of carbon spring steel like 1055 (all Cold Steel swords and most machetes), 1075, 1080, 1085 or 5160.

[@MasterofPlay7]

Simon's Discoveries again, the there's always a trade off between the toughness and hardness. The harder the knife, the more acute angle may the edge holds, the sharper and more precise the blade, and longer the edge retention; whereas with more flexibility, the hardness would reduce hence edge retention would also reduce

[@888zzz]

The three parts of steel strength are toughness, durability, and strength. Toughness is the steel's resistance to chipping or breaking, strength is its resistance to bending, and durability is its level of edge retention. The stainless blades had more durability but less strength and toughness.

[@SimonsDiscoveries]

888zzz Good summary, thanks :)

[@MasterofPlay7]

888zzz Nah I said stainless blades have more toughness and strength but less edge retention and durability

[@SimonsDiscoveries]

***** Ah yeah, I learn a lot from talking to people on KZbin. But I wouldn't say the sandvik has better edge retention than the carbon steel from Mora.I wasn't able to test the mora's stainless because it broke. The one that surprised me was AUS-8 from Hultafors.

[@MasterofPlay7]

***** lacks toughness? I think carbon steel lacks toughness cuz carbon steel is generally harder than stainless and easily chipped

[@MasterofPlay7]

***** lmao, why do chefs prefer carbon steel knives? Because they can take on finer edge, but with hardness comes with the cost of toughness, they are not as resilient as stainless

[@sigurdjger5645]

I have had a stainless steel mora for a very long time and it is still razor sharp. But my carbon steel mora has rusted like crazy but it is still presteyrket sharp. But i live close to the sea and here stainless is better for the place i live in. What i mean is stainless and carbon are both good and they are both good for difrent tasks and difrent envierments.

[@SimonsDiscoveries]

+Swag in a box That's true. Although, I prefer the stainless steel that Hultafors uses on their knives - AUS-8. Thanks for watching.

[@jamesaritchie2]

I see people cutting paper all the time, but it means nothing except that you have a knife that can cut paper. How often do you find things in the woods that are made out of sheets of paper. Or any kind of paper? But you don't even realize how you were using these two knives in a completely different manner, do you? Not that it matters. If you know how to sharpen a knife, it doesn't matter in the least which holds an edge longer. And, of course, when you can strike flint with a stainless blade, let me know.

[@SimonsDiscoveries]

+James Ritchie You see, it's like with shooting paper targets. How often do you see hunters or soldier having to shoot paper in the field? Cutting paper tells you a lot about a knife's edge and your sharpening. Every piece of wood is different. Sheets of paper are much more uniform. It's a very important thing to know when you first learn to sharpen knives. Ask Mors Kochanski. I don't think edge holding makes no difference. If I can choose between a knife I have to sharpen every hour and one that doesn't require my attention for a few days, all else being equal I'll go with the latter. Just because I know how to do something, doesn't mean I have to spend most of my time doing it. That's nonsense. I'm not sure I understand the part about striking flint with stainless blade. Did I mention it somewhere in the video?

[@MasiukA]

Pretty good rule of thumb is never buy stainless steel for any blades designed for use beyond VERY simple tasks. It's pointless. Not all blades are created equal. Yes, carbon steel rusts super easily but the maintenance involved with that is well worth the fact your blade will have far better edge retention and can withstand a much more force. Stainless is only good for kitchen knives and swiss army knives, folding pocket knives and stuff like that. Not something for holding up to heavy use and force in bushcraft or whatever.

[@SimonsDiscoveries]

MasiukA I guess you're right. After all, there must be a reason why they usually make machetes out of high carbon spring steel.

[@scribemike]

+MasiukA Nope. Have to disagree; that's a gross generalization that hasn't been usefully accurate for decades. There's a huge gulf between "can't hold up to lateral stress quite as well as similar carbon steel" and "only good for kitchen knives." Well-done Sandvik (like Mora's) can be used hard just fine. And as far as more modern, pricier stainless steels go, only a fool would claim that, for example, 154CM isn't damn tough stuff. Fallkniven's laminated VG10 stainless only good for the kitchen? Riiiiiiiiiight. :)

[@MasiukA]

Ok, maybe I did extremify that a bit. Nonetheless, both steels are inherently different. Stainless is always brittle, no matter the rockwell and behaves differently than carbon steel, which is more malleable, and always responds to stress and impact better because of that. Stainless steel chips and breaks, while carbon steel always has a tendency to bend or roll rather than break. Of course, under extreme stress conditions, any steel will snap, but under normal usage conditions, a blade tending rather to bend or roll is going to be preferable in durability because of the way it absorbs the force/pressure.

[@scribemike]

+MasiukA Absolutely; carbon steels tend to be tougher than similar stainless. I was just pointing out that the old saw "stainless is only good for the kitchen" simply isn't true; there are a lot of excellent, tough, high quality stainless outdoors/bushcraft/survival knives. The generalization gets A LOT of mileage here on KZbin, and it frankly needs to die in fire. But yeah; if you're going for maximum toughness, you'll need to look at carbon steel.

[@KingdomOfDimensions]

From what I understand, and this is a gross generalization, at the same (optimal) hardness there will only be one major difference between a carbon and stainless steel; the carbon will be tougher. Ease of sharpening, springiness, and brittleness can all explained by that. A tougher blade retains it's form better, it's edge will fold or dent rather than chip, and when impacted or deformed will be much less likely to shatter. I'd say your tests corroborate this to some extent, though the stainless Hultafors obviously sharpened very easily. I wonder just how many of the metal properties that are determined by the manufacturing process, quality, heat treat, hardness, and composition of the steels are erroneously attributed in the community mythos to the type of steel.

[@SimonsDiscoveries]

+KingdomOfDimensions Sounds like a very good summary to me :) I think heat treat is much more important than some fine differences in steel composition. But that's just my opinion. Thanks for watching.

[@KingdomOfDimensions]

Simon's Discoveries Agreed. Keep making these great videos if you like to; I know I enjoy them :D