Stan Culture: The Vanity Mirror of Capitalism

[@booksandbroadway]

While I totally agree with this video, I find it interesting how similar "stan culture" is to sports culture while sports culture doesn't elicit the same criticism, and I think the difference is clear in that most "stans" are young women and sports fans are predominantly men. Sports fans exhibit many of the same behaviors- loyalty to a fault, both in terms of relationships to their teams and financial loyalty, and ridiculous emotional outbursts, both positive and negative, in relationship to the achievements or lack thereof of their teams. Like stans, mega sports teams spend a ridiculous amount of money to see their teams play and on merchandise. Of course, both musicians and sports teams build community and can help people connect with likeminded individuals, and those communities can also become toxic. I'd love to see a similar critique from the media at large of sports teams and their fandoms that is being given to female-driven stan communities, like Swifties and the BTS army.

[@nyaugenyaful]

Valid observation

[@folddealfeal2740]

yassssss! but now someone said it

[@HoneybeeAwning]

thank you

[@Guimhj]

🎯

[@sunflowervibes3041]

Excellent point!

[@elizabethwillis885]

I’ve always been against Stanning in general. Mostly because it just becomes almost obsessive and unhealthy at times. But also putting someone on a perfect pedestal is just bad. Human beings are flawed. And if you see these people as perfect, you can’t see their flaws. I’m ok with fans. But I think Stans can take it too far.

[@sara-os5yz]

I'm trying to grapple with this myself...I am neurodivergent and at 18 I used to swear I'd never pick up an expensive hobby and screw myself over financially. Unfortunately, my tendency towards special interests got the best of me and I'm trying to curb it.

[@Celinamars666]

@@sara-os5yz please have compassion with yourself but also think of ways you can do those interests with less financial resources.

[@Uncle_Smidge]

This! My fandoms aren't generally Super Popular Current Pop Star, so there's less expensive stuff for me to blow my cash on, but I won't say that fandom hasn't gotten me to support channels I like by buying (useful/functional) merch from their sites. I've even had decently personal interactions with several people I'm a Fan of, and remembering that they're just people is the key. Lots more people know their names than mine. That's about it.

[@caitlinnk6]

I agree with most of this video about the financial aspect of fandoms. However, for having been in many, I can tell that you forgot a core aspect of those communities. Most people in them are very lonely, living a very hard life (depression, bullying at work/by family/at school, chronic illnesses, financial distress,unemployment, discrimination…). They are in quest of a safe place and some kindness. Fandoms are more about sharing kindness than about the celebrity in itself. They project in the celebrity the positive they need in their life. Not all fandoms are toxic but they can get extreme and cringe in the support of the celebrity (especially if the celebrity is very famous) and there can be some aggressive behaviors towards people within or out of the community. But globally, I saw so much support between people, so much kindness. Often, stanning is for a short period, not that people stop loving the celebrity but their life takes a turn and they no longer need the community. But I saw encouragement to seek mental health therapy, moral and financial support, helping with coming out…. and also people from different political sides chatting with each other, people from different countries sharing their love for the celebrity. So fandoms aren’t just some grim aspect of capitalism even if some aspects of it is.

[@sullivc5]

To be clear, she could have prevented some of the ticket master nonsense, like the price gouging. John Oliver did a piece on ticket master a few years ago and he revealed that Pearl Jam (in it's current level of popularity) was able to set more favorable terms for fans. Taylor absolutely has the power to do so and she didn't--because her one true love is capitalism.

[@cutiepiemania45]

This is not a fact. They can't retract that many tickets for one. But they have been in fact releasing tickets through different methods a lot at Taylor's request to try and connect fans with tickets. Ticketmaster is still being shitty through it all. Taylor wants to make money off her art, but you dont need to make up stories.

[@anneleahd]

The way Taylor talks to her fans is so cunningly manipulative by neurobiological standards that it's spine-chilling.

[@barbaralachance5836]

I agree she could have definitely done something but if there is one thing Taylor loves more than herself is money! Don't get me wrong I love her songs but the way she was talking about money in some interviews felt really greedy to me.

[@missnoneofyourbusiness]

I was currently considering going into debt for festival tickets but then I saw this video. So...thank you? I really want to see the Chemical Brothers but I don't even have money for my apartment's services this month.

[@kelseybrexit5224]

Bro pls don’t change your mind. Rent can NOT be late! They will shut off your utilities and that’s the first step to homelessness. Save your money for those tickets! If you don’t make enough now, do some projects to get a little extra cash on the side. Sell some stuff that you don’t need or want. Stop spending money on that cup of coffee every morning and save your $5 towards the tickets! Caffeine withdrawal for the reward of jamming to an awesome band you didn’t go into debt for! Of course I’m assuming you drink coffee but I mean anything that’s a daily spend, maybe take that daily spend out of your day. You can do it! Slay Queen 💁‍♀️

[@BethMacDur]

A very smart comment, you have to set priorities, and while having fun and enjoying oneself should be a priority, knowing when we will put ourselves under unnecessary stress and worry for something that was not "essential" is key to our own peace of mind.

[@miss.paula1111]

I also noticed a trend. People buying and making outfits just for a concert. Not just going to the store and buying a cute dress that you could wear for something else. But buying outfits that go with the aesthetic of the performer/tour/specific album.

[@mr.icecream7880]

That’s fun!

[@nataliekmaguire]

There's a creative output in that that's it's own reward. Some people (many of my friends, and myself sometimes) get a lot of creative satisfaction out of designing, creating and then wearing a costume all on your own (bonus points if other people love and compliment your outfit). It's not a total waste - you learn valuable skills that you can apply to future projects, and/or have a very unique memento from that event. I'd rather spend $200 making a custom outfit for myself than spending $200 on merchandise that was most likely made in a sweatshop.

[@miss.paula1111]

@@nataliekmaguire i think there's a difference if it's a hobby vs if you just want an outfit for one concert for clout on social media. Some people don't make their things. They order stuff of shein or wherever. I saw an influx of dresses on FB marketplace after the Taylor swift concert. They even marketed them as a dress for that t swift era. And even the materials that you work with are made in a sweatshop. Making stuff is also one of my hobbies. When it comes to making clothes, I try to upcycle from the thrift store.

[@ljohnson1908]

On the Snapchat exodus: I'm not a part of the Navy ⚓️, I'm just a person who found making light of DV disgusting.

[@KeepTheGates]

A lot of people found it hilarious.

[@kyootzee]

It's a mixed bag for me. Having someone to look up to can really help lift a person up when they are down. The Swifties also helped mobilize an anti-monopoly movement (a good thing for social equality). However, the pain and loneliness that stans experience is real. Sometimes fandoms are the only place some people can make friends. It's really hard to tell a person to stop when they don't have other options. Therapy is not accessible to everyone. The infatuation is like a drug and it activates the same region in the brain as addiction. It is really painful to detach. I prefer to show compassion to stans than pass judgement. It is the corporate entities that have the upper hand in the relationship. It is up to people like us to demand transparency, to remind people that they are emotionally invested in a fantasy. It's okay to love music and art, but to sacrifice your own wellbeing giving everything you have to someone who already has more than enough is just tragic.

[@reckonerwheel5336]

I think stan culture just really goes to show how humans are incredibly social and some of us desire someone to admire, be it platonically or romantically. It's barely any different from religion -- it's filled with emotional experiences, there's figures you admire deeply, and being in the culture connects you with others who feel the same. It's a form of love. It has its place in a person's life, and like anything, it can become a problem when it's an avoidance mechanism and/or it makes you neglectful of other important relationships or goals in life.

[@miraearles3372]

Thanks for bringing up the environmental impact, I think that gets overlooked so often in discussions about celebrities.

[@vannisworld]

When the headline came out "I won't be able to pay rent this month because I bought concert tickets".. that was their choice. Stanning doesn't do anything but put money in the pocket of an already rich celeb that truely doesn't care about their fans.. no matter what they claim about how much they care. They don't know one person out of a crowd, unless that person is giving them a ton of cash.

[@bookofdaveandsteve]

Daily Mail (as featured in your Harry Styles bit) is not allowed by Wikipedia as a source. They are rabidly hateful and have editorial standards firmly in the gutter. I don't think this is widely known outside of the UK though. Just a heads up 👍

[@meeksandgeeks]

I'm a big Taylor Swift fan (you could call me a swiftie and I wouldn't correct you) and spent a lot of my own money to go the Eras Tour. I think this a very important conversation to have. I love her music and think she's the defining pop star of our generation, but I can't help but pause whenever I see the extreme capitalist practices coming from her side (releasing multiple versions of each album/song/vinyl, having expensive tour-exclusive merch, etc) or the obsessive, parasocial relationships found in some die-hard swifties (overanalyzing everything she does, harrassing the people she wrote songs about a decade ago, etc). Some aspects of the fandom are definitely getting quite unhealthy. I think we should be careful with our interests because the more your standom becomes an immutable part of your core identity, the less likely you are to be able to think critically or see anything they do as problematic.

[@dianaadamo5574]

Also a swiftie and I agree. I wanted to get eras tickets but I was waitlisted during the sale and can't justify spending so much on expensive tickets AND a plane ride just to attend. I also will buy an album of hers, but I can't imagine buying every version. Her merch is also pretty expensive - I tend to just buy cute things off Etsy made by other swifties. I always tell myself that taylor would want me to save my money and pay off my student loans, lol!

[@shalryma]

I'm forever grateful to various fandoms that I've been a part of throughout my life, as they gave me a lot of joy, great experiences and meaningful relationships that carry on outside of fandom. But, I do agree that everything has limits and the effect some standoms have can be really damaging, both financially and socially. I'm European, my partner loves football (soccer) and I think it's one of the most toxic fan communities that one can be a part of. Not only the demand is so high that you need to pay FOR A CHANCE to get a match ticket, buying overpriced merch is matter of honour (£60 for a T-shirt that has basically the same quality as a supermarket plastic bag), but also anti-social behaviour as well as straight up violence towards fans of the opposite team is often encouraged. Add corruption, Saudi concerns pumping oil money everywhere and big environmental impact after every major match - and you have a business that we should boycott, but instead of that people keep sacrificing their money and sometimes even their health to support.

[@thewandgoose]

Had to pause the video to comment because you literally hit the nail on the head re: Taylor Swift. I've been saying the same thing for years: she is an incredible performer and songwriter, but if there is anything that she is even better at being aside from those two things, it is being a businesswoman. I love her music and have seen her a couple times in concert (didn't get Eras tickets), but I could not imagine being a stan at the level some of these Swifties are. I pick up a Target-exclusive CD because your girl still drives an '05 Corolla and I call it a day.

[@sara-os5yz]

It baffles me how some people can afford to do several shows for her and other artists. I couldn't even get Eras tickets for my sister. I went to two shows for one of my favorite artists and it costed me over $1200. Last year all these young girls doing several nights of Harry Styles shows and it was baffling. I can only assume it's daddy's money at this point.

[@thewandgoose]

@@sara-os5yz It's truly wild! If you have the expendable income then I say go for it. But I would have to imagine some people are also going into considerable amounts of debt for these artists. As someone currently trying to climb their way out of credit card debt, I cannot imagine setting aside thousands of dollars for just a few hours of entertainment.

[@sara-os5yz]

@@thewandgoose Agreed! Credit score damage is not joke. I'm incredibly blessed and lucky I've been able to have the experiences I had seeing one member of BTS but had to know to say no to a trip to see the group when it would have put me into a CC debt hole.

[@wanr5701]

Simple rules of becoming a fan; 1. Don't be stan. 2. Don't be simp. 3. Don't be obsessed. 4. Don't be fanatic. Your body, mental, and wallet will forever be grateful.

[@Guimhj]

Isn't fan short for fanatic?

[@wanr5701]

@@Guimhj be a fan, don't be a fanatic.

[@yourer]

Someone should make a song out of this. "Don't be stan. Don't be simp." 😅😅

[@JuanWayTrips]

Great tips at the end when it comes to moving back in with your parents to help with finances. Perhaps I missed it and it was mentioned, but another tip I've heard is to have an end date in mind if you are doing that. Even if you always planned on it being temporary, it's much easier to say "I will be here 1 or 2 years" versus "I am here until I am financially stable." Even if the total amount of time is the same, it's easier (for me at least) to work towards and goal and an end date so it doesn't feel like you are going to be there forever. But everyone is different too.

[@amandabritannica]

Against my will, Eras Tour content has been DOMINATING my for you/explore pages these past months… what I noticed the most was the overconsumption involved with preparing for the show. Hauls for multiple outfits for followers to “vote” on or to create a costume of sorts- it’s been wild. Gave me the bummer icks 😅

[@iuliiaturasova7338]

Same here! I don't even have anyone who's listening to Taylor Swift or attended her concert. Yet, my Explore page is full of her... (and no, I don't consider it a blessing from above)

[@DrAyeshaJB]

I have been a part of BTS ARMY for about 4 years now, but Ive been following Chelsea since her Thought Catalog days so safe to say I spend my money on experiences that enrich my life, while being cognizant of what goes out of my bank account should be worth my time. Everyone is trying to sell us something, if its of value to you and wont leave you without money for basic necessities, you should go for it, as long as you do it all with eyes and ears wide open. I also agree that criticism should be allowed in a civil manner, without worrying about getting doxxed or ostracized online. Be kind and make sane financial choices 💜

[@mustang-sassy]

So glad you spoke to this! Sports fans have been doing Stan forever too!

[@LanceNRusso]

Stocks are pretty unstable at the moment, but if you do the right math, you should be just fine. Bloomberg and other finance media have been recording cases of folks gaining over 250k just in a matter of weeks/couple months, so I think there are a lot of wealth transfer in this downtime if you know where to look.

[@LanceNRusso]

@Marjorie C. Larson Such market uncertainties are the reason I don’t base my market judgements and decisions on rumours and here-says, got the best of me 2020 and had me holding worthless position in the market, I had to revamp my entire portfolio through the aid of an advisor, before I started seeing any significant results happens in my portfolio, been using the same advisor and I’ve scaled up 750k within 2 years.

[@LanceNRusso]

@Marjorie C. Larson Having a counsellor is essential for portfolio diversification. My advisor ASHLEY AIRAGAHI who is easily searchable.

[@story3877]

One happy moment in my 30s was when i realized i no longer give a flying fart about celebs. So freeing. I understand some truly love this celeb worship and if that works for you, awesome, but if you were like me and just tired of keeping up with all this shit and realizing that following their lives takes time away from my life (and my money), know that you can walk away. Its ok to not care about these people.

[@paradoxicalundressing]

I know it's not the thrust of the video, but the song "Stan" by Eminem is absolutely fantastic.

[@lv9265]

that's where the word stan comes from, allegedly

[@bryanna4548]

Iconic song. The storytelling, the beat, Dido being featured on the track. That song cemented Eminem as one of the most talented lyricists for me, and then I went down a rabbit hole with Dido. Both are truly great artists. Watching Gen Z call themselves Stans isn't at all endearing to me because Eminem was giving a distinct warning about the dangers of parasocial relationships. To this day when Stan drives off the bridge, I get literal chills. Eminem followed up years later with Toy Soldiers, condemning people killing each other over their favorite rappers. Artists today encourage the toxic behaviors of their fans, and it is downright dangerous when you have people being doxxed for criticizing artists I won't name but they rhyme with Swaylor Tift and Micki Ninaj. Growing up in the early boy band days, my mom placed a hard limit on how many posters I could put up in my room and how much merch I could buy. I thought she was just being lame, but she was setting a healthy boundary. I'm doing the same with my kids. They can have favorite artists, but it better not be for anything more for that artist's craft. I don't need a celebrity to be a role model for my kids. It's unhealthy.

[@rheavals]

I'm a TFD Fan and a Big Swiftie 😊 I'm from Asia and I flew to Houston Tx just to see the Eras tour with my bestfriend, two nights! Yes, I spent a lot of money on tickets and merch (and flights) but I think that there's nothing wrong with it as long as you know your limits. I have travel savings and fortunately, I don't even have to dip into it because I was able to pay for all my bookings with my salary (since I planned this for 3-4 mos). Being a STAN isn't problematic as long as you know your limits. These artists inspire us and their music has become part of our lives for years ❤

[@shaquicedacosta]

I start convos surrounding hobbies with “is it in the budget?” If yes, go off. If no, I get to lecture you for Xminutes ✌🏾🙂✌🏾

[@nannichols7101]

For those of us whose favorite experience is going to concerts, Ticket Master's Dynamic pricing is disgusting. As if they don't know that demand for tickets is always high when they first go on sale. And the artists who not only allow this as well as resellers jacking up the prices astronomically should be ashamed, especially when the artists profit from these practices. Robert Smith of The Cure has been fighting & winning against Ticket Master during their current tour. He refused to allow them to have dynamic pricing, tickets can only be resold on one site at face value & when he learned that in some states the fees were more than the cost of a ticket, he got small refunds for fans. When a reseller got ahold of some tickets, he had those seats cancelled & resold with profits going to charity. Robert has set the bar so if your favorite artist isn't holding the line on pricing they are no better than greedy corporations & really don't give a shit about their fans!

[@nikikhojandi9485]

I was a huge taylor swift fan since I was a kid. But unfortunatly recently something happened that upset me. I'm a gen z fashion designer from Iran and because of where I'm from I don't get a lot of opportunities to show my work. When I was in high school(5 years ago) I sent taylor a bunch of sketches I had done inspired by reputation album and I did it just to say how much I idolize her. I recently saw one of my sketches made into one of her looks from her eras tour and another designer was credited. It made me really sad cause I thought if anyone stood up for young artists and dreamers it would be taylor😔

[@Uncle_Smidge]

If your fandom turns you into a hissing mongoose at strangers when that celeb will literally never know your name, please just step back. You should be protective of their privacy and human dignity, but remember that they're just people. I drove a few hours to meet a pair of KZbinrs I love, but it was a free meetup and I was also hanging out with a bestie, and it was a really fun little whirlwind trip. That, or attending comic cons for the cons themselves, but also aiming to meet a celeb that's aggreed to go there solely for meeting fans. I'm a grumpy old Millennial, though, ymmv

[@chamuelolivier1594]

I don't like an artist enough to spend thousands of dollars on him, maybe a little money for a CD or to see a movie from time to time. In South of France, where i live, they paid 200 euros to see Beyoncé. Those euros are in my pockets, not in hers! Imagining her on her yacht, drinking champagne with my money is umbearable!🤣

[@yaelacting]

What a perfect video. A classic example of why I follow this channel for so many years now. Thank you for this sane voice and critical view(s) about this topic!!

[@malenalucero6473]

I'm part of the BTS fandom and I've seen how toxic it can be. Some people see it as a job or responsibility, they stream videos and audio, they vote in weird sites, and they of course spend a lot of money. I'm too old for all that shit, but it was interesting seeing it first hand.

[@sara-os5yz]

I'm someone who has certifiably spent a lot of money on BTS but voting for everything is something I never really understood. I've voted for their most important awards (AMAs artist of the year was fanvoted) but I'll never understand the obsession with one of them winning some random online app poll for Prettiest Smile or whatever that they won't even notice or acknowledge. Especially when you have to pay for the voting. Donating funds for an album that hasn't even been announced or released yet so as many copies as possible can be bought on iTunes in the future is also pretty baffling to me.

[@malenalucero6473]

@@sara-os5yz I've never understood that thing about donating funds, if I had the money I would buy stuff myself

[@holigatis7588]

Omg yes!!!! I love twice and watch their videos because I want to and enjoy it, idgaf about streaming all day to break records or whatever 😂

[@deadmeatbones6742]

I too follow bts from their very early days but never understood going overboard for them or any other artist.

[@snowghost9800]

I think if you have disposable income that you've earned via your hard work and effort it should be nobody's business to dictate how you spend your money. BTS Music/Art for me is a huge stress reliever. It keeps me focused at work and puts me in the zone. I can't count how many times i've cried with Not Today playing in the background when workload and pressure is particularly heavy. There is no way for me to repay them for how much they changed my life. Yes, they are rich and dont need more monetary or resource enriching. Do they feed on my insecurity/vulnerability/fear when they market themselves or their music? Yes, definitely. Every person who tries to sell you something does. Question is do you lose more or gain more out of this transaction. If the exchange is fair and equitable to both then there's nothing to see here really.

[@MrEntourage101]

... but I am a Chelsea Fagan stan, bought her exclusive merch, too - the robin's egg blue coat!

[@ReneeJoan]

The best commentary about this worship of the rich came from Tevye, in “Fiddler on the Roof”: It won’t matter if I answer right or wrong, because when you’re rich, they think you really know.

[@Iamso4u]

As a Taylor Swift fan, I have really largely enjoyed participating in online fandom. There’s something about bonding over a song or album. And honestly I don’t think Taylor’s above criticism. I was one of those fans that spent 6 hours in the ticket master queue only to get nothing. I posted about my disappointment and a friend I only knew digitally through the fandom offered me her second ticket at face value if I’d go with her. I wouldn’t have seen the eras tour otherwise. So I think there’s a positive side to fandom too.

[@racer4369]

This could not be posted on a more perfect date. Today is the 10th anniversary of BTS's debut and all of Seoul, South Korea has purple monuments, billboards, bus ads, pop up shops, cupsleeve events, etc related to all things BTS. I am an Army (BTS fan name) and I think some of the price hiking with ticketmaster and all these things are definitely capitalistic greed but as a fan myself I do partake in some of it. I went to the AgustD-Suga tour that sold out in 15 minutes in Illinois. I got 4 tickets in total for 2 shows for about $120/per ticket. I was lucky since I got them on ticketmaster during the presale. I love BTS but I don't buy everything they put out and advertise cause I'd be broke.😅

[@sara-os5yz]

Same, I don't go all out on albums and merch because I know I'd be totally broke. I did however go all out on two Agust D shows (on two opposite coasts) as a graduation gift for myself and because I think it's healthy to prioritize live experiences that won't come back as opposed to material objects.

[@racer4369]

@@sara-os5yz Exactly. I am alos prioritizing live experiences over physical merch. I also went to the theater for a couple BTS concert showing too.

[@sara-os5yz]

@@racer4369 The theater showings are always 100% worth it! $20-30 for over 2 hours of nonstop music and being surrounded by other fans is a steal. I saw PTD in Seoul and YTC in Busan and I want to see the Sope documentaries on the big screen too. I am however disappointed in how expensive the livestream tickets have gotten through Weverse. I knew people who spent less money to see Yoongi in person than the Seoul membership livestream costs. $100 for a video stream is complete BS.

[@bibi2k189]

Big celebrities like a lot of scammers and business practices we have seen on TFD prey on insecure people... or, insecure people attach themselves to these celebrities until it would be a waste for a celebrity not to exploit them. This was the case of my ex best friend, who would obsess all the time over Justin Bieber, One Direction, Selena Gomez...

[@pikle777]

Army here. A good portion of us intentionally budget for BTS-related music, merch concerts and/or travel. My Ally high yield savings has a whole bucket just for BTS. I don’t spend a lot of money on clothes, makeup, etc..but instead put aside this disposable income for experiences like BTS concerts that bring me immense joy spent with friends. These are the core memories that will stay with me forever. There’s a significant portion of the fandom that is financially stable or comfortable. If we are able to buy extra albums, we give the extras away to fans who can’t afford them. We’re well known for countless charitable efforts around the world, many for sustainability and that protect the environment. When covid put a stop to tours, fans donated their bts ticket refunds to disaster relief charities, including those that help concert workers. So while yes, there is a lot of money moving due to stanning the group, a lot of it ends in goodness.

[@keilynbroussard9022]

Not to be a stan, but “Bayhive” threw me off a little bit lol

[@albowen6]

Hi Chelsea @thefinancialdiet Thank you so much for sharing information about Capitalize. I have a few accounts in various places, and it has been a pain trying to track them down. I found this service extremely helpful. Do you have any advice on taxes as well? That's another pain point I'm facing. Many, many thanks!!

[@janewaysmom]

If there's one thing we should all be stanning, it's class solidarity - beautiful ❤️❤️❤️

[@DeadlyDeadlyBeees]

Oh my god, what was Snapchat thinking with the Rihanna/Chris Brown ad???

[@emilycurtis4398]

Yeah, I interpreted that as less Stan culture when it happened and more "this is unacceptable" in general causing people to leave. It's not like Snapchat was making fun of a bad photo of Rihanna or a silly outfit.

[@Celinamars666]

Everyone wins and loses when a dream 💭 is created and maintained but without a 💭 dream, we feel ☠ dead which is harder to deal with than the toxicity of deception. Accepting that we are not in control is the beginning of awareness. It will lead you down a path of individuality which ironically is universal but seldom adopted.

[@juliefarin]

Fans/stans going into debt for a performer who doesn't know they exist has always baffled me. Think about that when you see them boarding their private jets. You helped pay for that.

[@kgal1298]

Hahaha I'm a Swiftie, but I don't buy her products. Also the Credit Card thing was useless I already had Capt One and I didn't get in to the presale.

[@yvs6663]

as someone who has been following certian bands and artists basically from the time they bearly made it to the scene, i still don't feel like i "know" that artist(or at least never felt that i am a part of their friend group), even if said artist might just be very open to interacting with fans at festivals or venues and ive even followed them on places like patreon where they enable frequent 2 way interactions with fans. i also don't see myself making a single artist my entire personality but thats a story for another day.

[@PaulHo]

It's especially disgusting when the culture of art shifted from the artist to the clout chaser, they don't like Taylor Swift more than other fans, they just want to be seen for it, for bragging rights, for artificial superiority. Grow up.

[@springfauna1465]

I have to admit, I've never heard of this before this video. As someone older with my teenage years in the mid to late 70's, I was wondering if we had anything like this back then. I would see people dressed up like David Bowie as Ziggy Stardust, and in the 80's watching certain people emulate Madonna and Pat Benatar, which at the time some of us thought was pretty funny. Maybe I've got this wrong, but I think the concept has been around for a while.

[@guyclk]

I alwas assumed Stan was a portmanteau Stalker+Fan. So eponym, thanks for the clarification.

[@shaquicedacosta]

Unfortunately some people have taken that combo seriously 😔

[@yourer]

You might not be wrong. Might have inspired Eminem to use the name Stan.

[@TiffReads]

Bey hive pronounced like bee hive. There is no bay hive. Lol

[@Amanda-wx5ck]

Lol I laughed at “there is no bay hive.” 😂😂😂 facts though

[@kasuallychic]

It’s so annoying. If her name is pronounced BEE-yonce, how do people make the leap to calling her fans the bay hive? (I’m not a stan btw, just easily irritated lol)

[@nimravus01]

I appreciate your videos like this in which you talk about the para-social relationships that modern celebrities cultivate with their fans. I must confess that my wife and I are big fans of Kevin Smith. In fact, we are going on a cruise next year specifically because Kevin and other celebrities from his sphere will be hosting meet-and-greets, Q&A panels, and other events on board the ship for the duration of the cruise. I'm not saying that I feel like I really know the guy, but Kevin does share a lot of his life online. I realize that is at least partially, if not 100% a ploy to gain a larger following. But, given his humble beginnings and the way he interacts with fans in real life, it at least feels genuine. Granted he's in no way close to the level of celebrity as Taylor Swift or BTS, but it's just an example of how much more access via the internet fans have to the personalities and how they can leverage that to make a strong fan base. Or Stans as described in the video. I don't know if my wife and I are Stans, but we are happily shelling out for this special event.

[@anaerobic]

I disagree, a 'stan' is always a bad thing. That's the point of the song that is mentioned. Some people could be misusing the term to describe themselves, though. Being a part of a named fangroup =/= stanning. Not all Army are stans, but all BTS stans can be considered Army.

[@papperogue]

Congratulations for 1M TFD team!!!

[@gemstonesparkle7915]

Fandoms exists by the simple need of human being to feel part of a social circle. But what I can’t understand is how can people be so engaged about celebrities that had nothing relevant on their careers. 😅

[@bibi2k189]

Me after watching another TFD video: once again I found out a new pithole for money!

[@feylights166]

I still live with my parents. One, I have a good relationship with them, but two, rent costs are ridiculous, and I can't afford it right now.

[@alexandriadanyelle5406]

I think what we’ve been seeing with Lisa Vanderpump’s show on Bravo is a clear indication that we need a cultural reset.

[@laurachristianson1688]

Okay Beatles craziness got wild…..even they thought so, and they quit touring so they could concentrate on their music, which has undeniably stood the test of time. Along with Brittany spears, Madonna, and the like Ms Swift who are all basically media creations with marginal talent, are going to be trivia questions ten years hence….

[@ReegSkywalker]

The problem in many fandoms is this thing that if you don't own all of the versions you're not a true fan, not supporting them, if you don't buy all the tickets and the shirts you don't belong and artists like TS just love to exploit that and I've seem a lot of my friends go into debt for her and it just hurts me. I tried bringing sense to them, and they told me it's their money, so it'd be 🤷‍♀️

[@CaraMarie13]

Am going to the eras tour on Saturday and i all those videos of the tour are upsetting. Like i already know what's going to happen and what songs she will sing. Also, if you think Stan culture in the US is wild 😂 we in this country haven't seen s***. I saw the Untamed during the first months of lockdown and I ended up loving it and the actors. This is how I learned about what's happening with marketing in countries like China, South Korea and Japan. Also, i had to get my eras tour second hand. $700 is nothing. That's not even half of what I had to pay on StubHub. I usually detest going to live concerts because am sensitive to loud sounds but i have been wanting to see Taylor for a while. I don't follow her on social media or anyone else (except Marc Marquez) for that matter. I love her strictly for the music and this tour seems to be a good opportunity to rock to all those songs I love in her previous albums but i will say, i won't be buying any tickets to any live show (I'll make an exception for monsta x) for years to come. That's how expensive that ticket was.

[@aquilaaltaire3007]

MDZS fandom for the Untamed is insane. 😢 I left quickly when I realized that people would buy everything.

[@habersmashery]

The Untamed got you too huh? :) It was an amazing show, but seeing the fame it gave some actors I. Particular left me really conflicted- yes they are getting work due to their talent, but I have to wonder about the flip side of being so idolised. Inability to go out in public places, legal drama that you didn’t start but now have to be involved in due to fan behaviour. I wonder if they feel it’s worth it.

[@SchiebleAnderson]

I'm so happy I made productive decisions about my finances that changed my life forever. I'm a single parent living in Melbourne Australia, bought my second house in February hoping to retire next year at 42 if things keep going smoothly for me..

[@Joannekenworthy]

Wow that's really nice! But how did you manage to achieve all that even as a single parent? please I'II appreciate your assistance on how to go about it, l'm desperately looking for a way to pay up my debts and also achieve my goals.

[@SchiebleAnderson]

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[@DonaldReims]

I've also earned over 550k so far investing in a crypto market with the guidance of Eddie Sota services, so surprised I found people talking about him here.

[@MilfordDahlberg]

Wow, I'm surprised you mentioned and recommended Mr. Eddie Sota. Well I don't have much to say about him but I'll advise newbie to place their trade under his services .

[@HaileyJakes]

This is not the first time I am hearing of him and his exploits in the trading world but i had no idea on how to reach him, i have already lost enough of money since my retirement trying to do it myself??

[@AlexKamillaKroy]

I am a Rihanna fan, and I totally agree with your points and applaud you for highlighting them. As a fan, I am aware of my exaggerated, biased judgements towards the object of admiration, and even though she is a big part of my life to date (and I'm way past my teenage years), I am still practicing this view I consider objective on her actions, and I'm probably criticizing her the harshest when I feel she deserves it (which is not for mass consumption or mockery and has a lot to do with the parasocial part of the fandom and "figuring out" the person). Of course, for objective reasons (the most impressive ones are teenagers, and they are the target audience), this can't be said about many fans. p.s. and I totally agree that we should all stan class solidarity

[@ieatgremlins]

Stan culture is not innocuous. You should love people's work, not people you will never meet.

[@iuliiaturasova7338]

About that HS fans: while being a huge fan of several super popular artists (HS, Coldplay - just to name a few), I NEVER forget to check the amount being charged when paying for the tickets! The story of that fan doesn’t add up, imo

[@Cecile2906]

BTS Army here 🙋🏻‍♀️ I have spent a lot of money on BTS, I’ve always acknowledged how smart their company is when it comes to marketing. I agree with what you’re saying in your video. Just like anything, there can be toxicity in any fandom, that it is musical, athletic or else.

[@missshutova]

Please invite Caleb Hammer for a chat. His channel is getting bigger, but it would be really interesting to see your take on his method

[@uraddiictOnx3]

Why did you step away from the podcast?

[@Balgees24]

May be I'm just an old person (36). I don't understand those fans at all. We can't say anything on their favorite. They will expose personal information and try to get fired from your job. And those k drama or k pop are something else.

[@muiawat]

Kpop is-on-a-whole-other-level

[@rheavals]

I actually couldn't agree more how Taylor's team is such a big marketing/capitalism machine. There are some things that you can't help but criticize and find ridiculous. But again, as long as the fans know their limits, especially in terms of their budget/finances, then stanning is fun and normal 😊

[@IBPaintsppp-wt5ou]

Yeah I have a friend who has a $2000 ticket and flights to LA for the tour that she really can't afford. I think she got it as a gift, but I asked her if she would sell it and she said she thought about it, but that it was a once in a lifetime experience. I've never spent $100 on a concert so it's hard to understand. It's a bummer knowing what she could do with the money instead, but it's her life.

[@Uncle_Smidge]

A bestie got us tickets to a metal band we both love and had the good sense to get them for a location we can drive to, without spending too much on gas or an arm and a leg for plane tickets. Some gestures are nice but forget the practical aspect, bless the heart of the giver.

[@mrdad-zl9zl]

This vid hit all the point about Taylor Swift (the brand) except this one: Taylor Swift if the face of a highly lucrative brand run by a team of people. Taylor Swift the person is on the team of the brand but she is not the team. People will be way more interested to buy into what they know is a marketing tactic if they think Taylor came up with it and not a bunch of people they don't know in a board room. That's on purpose.

[@gtg488w]

Ong I’ve been thinking about this a LOT. How Stan culture is so sketchy it’s like it was born from think tanks just to take as much money out of people’s pockets as humanly possible. And these ppl swear they’re doing it bc they genuinely want to

[@jaredmcdaris7370]

Chelsea says “Class solidarity,” Jared perks up like a dog when the keys jingle.

[@Tonestronaut]

Yeah, but give credit where credit's due. I'm familiar with 20th century pop music history, and I've never seen anyone before Taylor Swift with her combination of success, creative control, and getting paid. And when the music biz screwed her over, as it does with literally everyone, she found a way out of it. By the way, if you like talking about greed and corruption, the music industry is a rich source of material.

[@freshfreshfreshfresh]

The mental gymnastics in this comment is insane

[@libelulaojo]

it's lame when celebrities have their minions and instead of encouraging the minions to be their own "main character", the accept and encourage these often children minions to worship themself, the celeb. It's the pathetic tactic of a narcissist

[@hypersynesthesia]

As much as I love the music & sports I’m attached to (I will travel abroad for the things I love), I find the inflated price-gouging that goes along with it sickening & exploitative, and when someone/something I like opts into that, I opt out. A concert ticket will never be worth several hundred quid to me. I’m not going to pay hundreds for a sports event, or for ltd ed vinyl etc, or to buy into a celebrity’s brand. Dynamic pricing is monstrous and I just don’t need to go to the thing that badly. I’ll transfer my affection for something at a lower/more grassroots level instead. I’m not willing to die poor to help them get richer.

[@aldenkahl8703]

The business owner talking about stanning "class solidarity" is rich. She's bourgeoisie she has more in common with the wealth, since she extracts money from her workers in the same way.

[@amethystdream8251]

Bruh stan culture is just a product of capitalism. We didn't exactly make the economics of being an artist profitable without the obsession, that drives people to buy stuff they don't need to fill a void. Anyone who has ever wanted to make a living from their performance abilities has gotten a lecture from someone higher up at least once, about how they need to do this in order to make a profit. Basically, our global economy runs on obsession, so why are we surprised by the existence of stans? Thank you all for these ongoing discussions!

[@Seanmirrer]

Thanks for the update and keep doing what you do. My journey in the current market has taught me a lot of lessons, thinking about investing diversification certainly is the key, that's why I engaged in sectors based on projected growth. There are no shortcuts to getting rich but there are smart ways to go about it. professional Gregory Thomas Patchak has been my advisor and trader for a while now he has been doing a great job reviewing all charts and trade which has enhanced the growth of my portfolio to a six figures lately.

[@Bradleyschaeffer376]

Wow, that's more than a mouthful of profits he’s making you.I immediately hunted him up on Google, found his website, and left a message in hopes that he will react soon. Appreciate!!!!

[@AnnaKrueger809]

I was able to contact Gregory Thomas Patchak earlier this year he has helped us become debt-free,save for retirement and has helped transformed my life, he has been amazing

[@SierraLeighanne]

I found his extraordinary resume when I searched for his name on Google. I count it a gift that I went over this remark

[@Siures]

For me the difference between fandom and standom can be seen in Harry Potter. I am a long-term fan but I do not buy stuff because I will not support JKR. Most fans detached from her. They still enjoy fanworks or the original novels but see the flaws and do not support Rowling. But there is also a radical standom. They buy merch to SHOW they identify fully with the author and her hate against trans people. Or at least they downplay the tons of money Rowling put into harmful campaigns and still love her. They do not see the flaws in her work either. The plotholes, lack of representation, unsocial, neoliberal view depicted in the Wizarding World. They put a „I stand with Rowling“ in their bios and some are even afraid to research on the controversies and do not care because Rowling is their perfect author, a poor women writing a magic story, rejected but never did she give up (this whole framing is a lie, btw). And Rowling USES these stans. To emphasize how loved she is but „by a few radicals“ (but they’re a threat nonetheless). To further build her brand and to spread fear. And because it is a matter of vital support now (at least they believe it, Rowling really does not need more money to live) they make sure to buy merch, new games etc. It’s a us vs. them dynamic. That’s also a dark side of extreme fandom. Like you said. You cannot criticize the artist because they are part of the stan’s identity. And some artists use it for manipulation.

[@nemOstarrx]

IDK I have old Deadheads in my family and they are/were oldskool stans of The Grateful Dead.

[@elizabethwillis885]

Stanning has been around forever. However it’s much much easier to be a Stan these days thanks to social media. You don’t have to follow around a band all over the country anymore to be a Stan.

[@aquilaaltaire3007]

The most I've ever spent on concert tickets is $75 to see Epik High live and it was a blast. They're the only group that I will go out of my way to see perform. I literally walked to their venue because it was 15 minutes away.

[@BumbleSmeeBee]

I 100% believe the Eminem song is a coincidence - I learned of it as a portmanteau for “Stalker” and “fan”.

[@PokhrajRoy.]

I feel like I say ‘MERCH Line’ ironically more often than not. I have created a lot of MERCH lines in my head.

[@paperlionkid1787]

BTS and K-pop have pushed fandom/standom to the next level. It's a dark rabbit hole I had to pull myself out of.

[@sara-os5yz]

Me too. At least my wallet is getting a break for the next two years hahaha

[@Uncle_Smidge]

You can absolutely be a fan of their music (BTS absolutely has some bangers, full credit to them owning their own group, too) but I'm glad you were able to reel yourself back from the deep end.

[@CyberMercy]

You say Stan I say Brand Loyalty. And I considder much 9f the banking & Investment climate Toxic AF

[@Micahangelina_]

TFD Stan here… 😅 jussayin ❤

[@Jojolana]

3:21 the Beyhive is pronounced Bee like the insect. Not BAY as in a the seashore. The Beyonce Stans will come for you over that.

[@missmoxie9188]

There are also Stormers Bastille Stans

[@Forceprincess]

I was mentally clenching, here comes more Taylor swift bashing...thanks for reeling it in...slightly

[@lightandtheweight]

Capitalism is the vanity mirror of Capitalism and modern stanning is a natural consequence and wildly inconsequential in comparison.

[@cgrahame]

I agree with your arguments but have to just say that they Navy is prob one of the least toxic of the fan bases. Aint got time to stalk and make death threats, that shit is for the birds

[@MagdaL123]

BTS!! 💜

[@sayantaniraxit9184]

Way too early, kinda feel jobless now

[@ambermayer7851]

I don't agree that stanning can be a good or even okay thing. Saying you'd murder your pregnant girlfriend over not getting an answer to your fan letter even in jest is worrying.

[@gusvalour]

A master songwriter? Almost 99% of her songs have like 10 songwriters with her inserted in with who knows how much the contribution to the song is.

[@freshfreshfreshfresh]

They gotta sugarcoat it so the stans don’t get too mad… you know how it goes

[@knunez4862]

It’s sad and very scary to see this problem in younger generation. I don’t care how famous you may be… I will not spend $500 on a ticket..

[@randykoger4646]

None of this is new. Every band is a “brand”. It’s always been like that. Most people watching these videos are too young to have any perspective on it.

[@AuthorDarrellCScottJr]

Mariah Carey’s #Lambily were stans before naming your Stans became a thing. 🐑🐑🐑

[@Nick_CF]

The Juggalos always did it best

[@MH-ku5kn]

Omg I love you but it’s ‘beehive’ with a Y because her name is pronounced “bee”yonce... not “Bae”yonce

[@MH-ku5kn]

I get that you’re not that only person to do that, but the other people doing it are usually being micro aggressive when doing so. I know you probably just don’t want to come across that way.