Star Citizen Ship Battle - The New and The Old: F8C Lightning Vs The Vanguard

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#starcitizen #squadron42 #shipbattle

[@Fire-Bound]

Awesome fight! Also loving the Halo: Reach theme in the background!

[@demonic75]

This is the video I've been waiting for! Glad to see the warden can hold it's own (for a little while anyway). Thank you for entertaining content, I'd love to see an alien version like the talon vs something.

[@AthrunX23s]

People screaming nerf really forget that the F8C is already a nerfed version of the 6xS3+2xS4 monster F8A...

[@BS-deadly]

It doesn't need a nerf I've killed quite a few f8s and I'm also a owner of a f8 too

[@alexanderellwood8952]

​@@BS-deadlyyep, it just needs more competition/rivals. Maybe we will see an Aegis single seat heavy fighter soon

[@mcaddc]

I really enjoy these ship battle type videos. So many takeaways from them! Cheers!

[@ShaighJosephson]

You stacked the deck against the Warden with that loadout... Fess up... Lol... It showed me that a properly fitted Harbinger would shred the F8C... Thanks for these vids... 🙂

[@LuiGiBon000]

I shredded F8C noobs many times. I ahve mixed loudout. Distortion lasers size 3 on turrets 4 lasers and 1 ad6b (same projectile speed as laser cannon) shreds lightning like butter. Also Im much better in flying that birck that whoever was that shitty pilot on video. That was trash flying

[@broonkhavar1461]

I feel like a combo of an Ares, F8, and a crewed gunship (vanguard, redeemer, etc) would be an excellent combination for small-party long-range patrols or raids. With only 4 or 5 players, you could potentially bring a capital ship's worth of firepower to bear, while still having the capability spread to take on any size or combination of targets.

[@Twidgyt]

I just realized that my audio is messed up. You should be hearing discord as well. I'll have to fix that. My bad.

[@TheNikosawa]

people often forget that the vanguard has a turret. in pvp the gunner can keep consistent pressure on the enemys shields wich would make this fight much more even. the f8 also supposed to have the same 2 front and back shield phases like the vanguard wich is currently bugged.

[@vankhorne]

People often forget that it's better to put that gunner in his own ship. Vanguard's turret will only be a thing if it ever gets automated with Automation Blades or manned with a hired NPC.

[@julienpham]

@@vankhorne But maybe some people are better gunners than pilots? :)

[@vankhorne]

@@julienpham Irrelevant and not the point, it's about the value of the resource (1 player). Ship > turret.

[@marksfarmcraft1888]

3.22 made this a little closer. If you're in a Warden to need to keep the missiles flying as well. The AD4B gimboled might also help against a line F8C. That said, it is an F8C.

[@dtsatanfu8673]

Still gonna comment every time i see a video and hear halo music

[@MichaelDBruce]

Could this be a facedown type tournament where ships in different categories are faced off

[@exseen24]

i would think when armour values and weapon penetration come in the vangaurd would have a better chance from that size 4, and improved s2 it has. still a trade off for the f8 with the current bubble and better maneuverability could still go either way with that

[@thomasbouvier3203]

I think the vanguard with the adb5 on that nose gun could have had the upper end. Much more damage output, and load of ammo. While ballistics on f8 arr kinda limited for now

[@TexanTemplar]

the vanguard really just needs a power capacity buff. Its probably the biggest heavy fighter but its salvo is so short that if you don't land your shots, you'll be taking dying trying to reload.

[@FoxVelox222]

Right now the f8 is bugged and isnt showing the front back shield like it should. Effectively doubling its shielding

[@OneNutSupreme]

It's because it isn't gold standard. It doesn't have the same pass as everything else. It needs to be updated.

[@FoxVelox222]

@OneNutSupreme that's not gold standard thats a bug. Yogi said that on spectrum. Gold standard is having physical components and stuff. This is just an error on how the shields are.

[@csdigitaldesign]

I've been confirmed by a dev in evo that the bubble shield, I.E. lack of forward / backwards shields is intentional. It still has the same HP of course you just can't move the HP around.

[@FoxVelox222]

@csdigitaldesign s2 shields have front back. Yogi was on spectrum saying its supposed to be front back style. Also it doesn't have the same hp. It means it isn't split 50/50 hp it's 100% on all sides. This is bullshit.

[@RavingNut]

After getting the F8C, I feel I should upgrade my Warden to a Sentinel. That would cover my EMP gap I would like to cover in my ships. Have considered the Harbinger though, don't know kinda on the fence a bit.

[@yaeaster3454]

Harbinger is awesome! Love it..and the S3 turret is super nice, if you have a friend to join from time to time

[@CedricDealyLife]

The Harb is better with a gunner (gotta love that S3 turret) but is a bit chonky. I think the best solo Vanguard is the Senti.

[@cornervillain838]

The harbinger just flies noticeably slower and worse than the other vanguards. It feels similiar to a redeemer. Erkul has the stats the same across the vanguards, but the roll/pitch/yaw are much worse on the harbinger

[@electrospud9230]

I really like the design of the F8C, that being said, people should remember this is a HERO ship in a SOLO campaign, its current form is really going to be overpowered, EXPECT it to be NERFED in the live persistent universe, the only thing I hope is that CIG do not completely NERF IT TO THE GROUND making it just a pretty ship to fly but pointless against other ships, the F8C is by and large the civilian version of a super powered ship it should still have some advantages over other ships in its category and CIG should really distinguish the heavy fighters to be much more durable than the medium and light fighters. Personally tho if CIG can come up with a Crusader heavy fighter variant of the A1 spirit comparable in size to the F8, I'd probably choose it since I prefer Crusader designed ships. Excellent vid as always 🍻🍻

[@broonkhavar1461]

I love the Ares design, as a concept. It's so different. I'm with you, I love Crusader designs. I would love to see Crusader's take on a Medium or Light fighter, somethind designed to dogfight. Crusader's penchant for extremely powerful engines and maneuvering thrusters and sleek lines just begs for a dogfighter. Maybe an interceptor styled on the ME-262 with outboard wing engines of Crusader design and vanguard-like nose cannons, maybe not to necessarily win the turn fight but to instead win the post-Master-Modes energy fight with speed and thrust like the Hornet.

[@BS-deadly]

What size distortions you using in replace of the cannons?

[@OneNutSupreme]

2 size 2's 2 size 3's

[@James-vl2wp]

F8 Pilot seemed to be fairly prone to jousting and trading shots over using the F8's maneuverability to its advantage. Would love to see F8 v Vanguard after the new flight modes come in.

[@OneNutSupreme]

Multiple people were flying the f8

[@targaryen6159]

F8's maneuverability is really similar to the Vanguards, F8's pitch I think is 4 deg/s over and yaw is 2 deg/s over, so not much difference.

[@James-vl2wp]

@@targaryen6159 Huh, guess it's been a while since I've flown a Vanguard. I'll have to get one to compare again

[@thomasbouvier3203]

Harbinger is quite heavier tho than others. :)

[@kendan1839]

The balance with the F8 and Ares I see is they are single seat heavy fighters; meaning short range. They wont fair well jumping multiple star systems and require a small pad to support. So you are talking Javelin, Idris, Kraken to field one outside a local system. Liberator's pads are a XS size, too small for it. Polaris might be able to take one, but thats an XS hangar (bespoke sort of so somewhat wider), so a maybe.

[@broonkhavar1461]

When it comes to the Ares, I think exactly the opposite. The Ares especially has the largest Quantum tanks of any heavy fighter, twice that of the Vanguard and Harbinger, and I think they should keep it that way. I think that's what will make these ships great in Pyro. They can escort those larger ships while they jump, and hold out in the fight after, giving vital cover during the vulnerable gap between the jump and deploying lighter fighters from the carrier.

[@kendan1839]

@@broonkhavar1461 Fuel is only one aspect, but single seat fighters also suffer from no living quarters. Cause if you are jumping multiple star systems away from space stations, your sort of screwed on supplies and rest inside a single seat ship. Ares can't dock and only a few capitals it can land on. The fuel may be okay for now for flying in Stanton, but try that in a single seat fighter when we start getting much bigger systems, as Stanton is among the smallest of systems, and Pyro isn't that big compared to a lot of other future systems. Those single seat fighters are going to be very dependent on fleet support as they lack the amenities to go long distance on their own.

[@CopperRavenProductions]

We need the Ares ships vs the lightning!! I need this in my life

[@GentlemanBroncos]

ares still dogshit obvious outcome . only challenge for an f8 rn is a meta light fighter with a very good pilot

[@csdigitaldesign]

Already been done by AvengerOne. Ares died horribly.

[@OneNutSupreme]

@@GentlemanBroncos idk ive killed a couple arrows in the Ion recently in pvp

[@danielparkinson6663]

yes bro. good content

[@bobpaxe1291]

Why do you use a mix of NDB and CF repeaters, rather than all of one?

[@OneNutSupreme]

Just the sound combination it makes

[@machoalright]

ITS OP! because some people said so! :P

[@OneNutSupreme]

It's not. I think the shields need a bit of a tweak, but that's about it.

[@machoalright]

@@OneNutSupreme altought my previous remark was a jest, but CIG keep the 2 size 2 shields. And yes it does need a tweak. But i think it will be done after they roll out this mastermode. We will see what they will do to it.

[@KarlBarbosa]

Won't be this way forever, mind you. Once armor is properly implemented, the swarm of small guns on the F8C will struggle to pen the Warden as they do now. Also, I'd love to see this fight at the Warden's true potential ... S5 ballistic gatling on the nose ;)

[@OneNutSupreme]

Thats what's awesome about this series. When things change, we can revisit fights as well.

[@whereverdoc5586]

How to position point of view inside the ship like you?

[@OneNutSupreme]

My FOV is Set at 116

[@BobWobbles]

The vanguard seems to be unchanged since its debut all those years ago. I don't expect CIG will do anything about it but it wouldn't take much effort to make it competitive again.

[@MrDashpilot]

Unless I missed it still waiting for the 600I vs a Connie or Corsair.

[@mitchelvandermeer1421]

Good Fight between warden and f8c

[@faithmacgregor340]

Wonder how the sentinel would do...

[@oldman1111]

Let's goooooo!

[@joshm3484]

I'll stick to the Sentinel. Not for any practical reason, I just love opening up with the AD5B.

[@-__Shadow__-]

Wait i hear halo?? I was so confused like I'm watching an SC video why am i hearing Halo 😂 -love both btw

[@OneNutSupreme]

Because halo music is goated

[@toecutter9372]

I’d say a fully crewed scorpius would give the lightning a real run for its $

[@OneNutSupreme]

Oh, 100% a crewed Hurricane slaughtered me in an F8 6 times in a row

[@LiquidFlowJam]

30km of what?! xD

[@Martin-mh6ow]

great video, you must start to do this videos fighting in spance and atmosphere

[@OneNutSupreme]

we mix it up from time to time

[@carterscoconuts6224]

I hope the nerf isn’t significant. How is there not gonna be a f22 in the verse. It feels like at this point the lore is good but the reflection of that lore in these ships is seriously underrated and feels like there isn’t manufactures that are trying to put do each other but rather level the playing field. Which isn’t like real life in the slightest. Saltymike said it himself and if there isn’t improvement it’s not new or an improvement. Just an iteration

[@OneNutSupreme]

honestly think just bring the shields down to 1 size 2 shield would be perfect

[@Dazvanu]

Well, I don't like any vanguard for PVP, it's simply too slow compared to ships like the Scorpios and Ares, which were already more maneuverable and now the F8C too, despite its versatility it's only better than the Hurricane in its category. However, the F8C has normal fighter maneuverability and sustained firepower superior to that of the Ares, meaning it is quite unbalanced. But is a nice video, show how the tings are perfectly.

[@danielr5817]

meanwhile off to the side OneNute and Unplugged get executed mercifully by the Ion. hahahaha. i really like this one. its interesting to see how they both move in atmosphere around each other and on the other hand just how effective the gimballed distortions are on the F8 when used.

[@AledMify]

Loadout for the vanguard seems a bit meh

[@OneNutSupreme]

It's standard meta, repeaters all the way around

[@AledMify]

@@OneNutSupreme the full repeater load out just seems so stagnant for the vanguard. Most of the damage the vanguard did was in 1:1 head on Trading with the F8 but if those were all laser cannons I feel like it would have done a lot better. I guess it’s just one of those cases where you kinda have to take the turret into account too. Would have been a different fight with a gunner. Especially with a Harb and it’s S3 turret with 2 panthers in it

[@CoyoteOne]

Noooooo Thats the complete wrong loadout for a PvP Vanguard! 4 MVSA and 1 S5 deadbolt or gatling. Vanguards dont have capacitors to run all laser repeaters

[@OneNutSupreme]

No too slow for pvp

[@CoyoteOne]

@@OneNutSupreme nah, you're fighting a slow ship. Try it next time and you'll be surprised. Especially after the F8 nerf hits.

[@OneNutSupreme]

@@CoyoteOne doesn't need a nerf aside from shield health

[@extraaverage]

Repeaters are always better in this fight, cannons are only better for opponents that can’t outmaneuver your pip F8 can outmaneuver a vanguard, so repeaters win

[@OneNutSupreme]

Admittedly, I have a hard time outmaneuvering the pip, so that is why I soak up a lot of damage and trade blows.

[@michaelpatent8690]

For the next one, in 3.21, try Vanguard Harbinger M7A+MVSA vs F8 Badger+Panther. The Laser cannon loadout on the harbinger granted it higher DPS but slower velocity, but it also has lots of missiles.

[@deio977]

People love to exploit broken game mechanics or OP ships then taunt others with "skill issue" 🤷‍♀ Hornet has 25G, an Ion has no chance against that. Unless the Hornet pilot is an old lady. F8 is OP and completely broken for sales to flow, there is no counter at the moment if both players are at the same level, in same ship or even a better one. Vanguard has no chance against F8. Nothing has quite chances against it in solo mode unless the opponent is among top players. Leaving aside Scorps and Hurricanes with gunners. It's a completely pay to win ship and this is CIG's definition of fun. To create dramas and toxicity among players.

[@OneNutSupreme]

F8 isn't op

[@deio977]

@@OneNutSupreme Sure, whatever keeps you sleep at night

[@OneNutSupreme]

Just drop it from 2 size 2 shields to 1 size 2 shield and it will be perfect

[@-__Shadow__-]

​​@deio977 it's a heavy fighter that is used by the military for air superiority for fighting against the glaive. It fulfills the lore perfectly fine. . The same people complaining are the same ones that got the ares nerfed to useless against even large ships. Cause God forbid you one pass a light fighter 😂. Like this has 8 cannons. What you want this thing to underperform? Have its guns removed? Dropped to size ones? It's a military ship converted to civilian. Not some civilian made ship that can be multipurpose or for police, and it's a heavy fighter. Just like the Gladius is the best light, because it's used by the military this is also the best heavy for the same reason.

[@Wolf-Odonnell]

I agree with Shadow on this one, once they fix the shield faces for front and back instead of bubble it will help a lot but honestly distortions are fucking nasty.

[@sebestans]

not a very informative comparison sadly

[@OneNutSupreme]

Not supposed to be informative, only to give an idea how these fights could go. All it is, is taking these ships put and fighting them to see how they do, that's it. At the end of the day, it comes down to pilot skill As said in the intro.

[@dex6147]

F8 is OP, not ridiculously so but needs a small nerf. Going to 4 S1 shields seems to be where they're heading. I think the maneuverability should be dropped a bit as well. Everyone says all repeaters are the go to for pvp but with ships with lots of hard points like the F8, I think mixing and matching, especially with distortion is the best.

[@OneNutSupreme]

No, a single size 2 shield

[@Fire-Bound]

@@OneNutSupreme this, but also I wouldn’t mind keeping the 2 S2s solely because the vanguards and ares series has two as well

[@OneNutSupreme]

@@Fire-Bound yeah but it's nimble like the hurricane and Scorpius.

[@skullhqx]

@@OneNutSupreme However, both the Hurricane and Scorpius have turrets, so if they have a crew of two, that’s an advantage. I agree with the single S2. You guys could test this, just remove one of the S2’s of the F8C and see if that makes a difference. Also, maybe try similar weapon type loadouts. It might be the case the distortion are distorting the outcome a bit ;)

[@MVous86]

While agree that it would probably be fine with a single S2 shield, it’s keeping the two S2s for now.