Star Citizen: T16000M vs VKB Gladiator NXT Joystick Review

Joysticks for Star Citizen! In this video I review the Thrustmaster T160000 vs the VKB Gladiator NXT Standard. If you're looking for a first joystick for a space sim, this is the video for you. Be warned, I actually thing dual sticks is the way to go!
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0:00 Intro
0:15 Prices And Models
2:18 Unboxing VKB Gladiator NXT
2:34 Buttons and Physicality
5:03 In Game Testing
6:40 Recommendations
#StarCitizen​​ #SpaceSim​​ #PCGaming​ #Squadron42​ #S42

[@DeusMaximusX]

I bought a pair of T160000Ms, and within 3 months had Z-Axis issues. After multiple times fixing them, I ended up replacing them with a pair of VKB Gladiator NXT's, and have been going good with them for over 14 months now, and they still feel as great as they did on day one. There's really no comparison.

[@tycondero1647]

how did you try to fix the Z-axis issue on your T16000?

[@fredjones2841]

@@tycondero1647 He bought NXT

[@chriskelvin248]

I also bought left and right T16000M's and had the exact same problems with the Z on my right stick. Went back to single stick by switching the grips left to right. Then the former left stick developed the same problem and had to cannibalize parts from the other which was tricky. The fix wasn't permanent unfortunately/ predictably. I'm currently using my first joystick, 3D Extreme which is even more toy-like, but always works. VKB seems to me only a modest price increase over the Thrustmaster, but much higher quality.

[@fredjones2841]

@@chriskelvin248 My V KB set came in last week I'm on day 4 Learning to play dull stic... Way higher quality over my logictec stick

[@JAnx01]

I had a T.16000M back when they were new, maybe 12 years ago and I don't remember the Z-axis issue ever being as bad it is now where you have virtually everybody on the internet complaining about it. I think it must be a part of their business model because there's no way they care this little about their product not to at least try to come up with some little fix. Virgil / VKB are niche products that only people who actively seek the best solution there is know about and Thrustmaster still has all the market share. To firther reinforce this point, one of my friends bought 5 and I saw a guy on the internet claiming he's on his 7th T.16000M. My early model died after a little over a year (with no big Z-axis issue other than what you can expect from a shitty pot after some use). I didn't like the lack of functionality and the design either, mainly the lack of buttons on the stick (even Logitech 3D Extreme Pro has more) which didn't allow me to fully enjoy any of the 90's space sims that are button hungry. I replaced it with a Saitek X52 Pro which still works to this day, albeit is a bit looser now, and has a many more buttons and HATS on the stick, even s dedicated shift function. Then in 2020, I bought a Gladiator NXT and it has worked for me without any issues.

[@solusquinto3086]

Don‘t buy double and buy VKB‘s from the start, they are worth it. I started with t16.000 and upgraded to Gladiator NXT Standard (left) and Gladiator NXT Premium (right). They are so much better, easy to repair or modify if you need/want to. Functionality and overall feeling while flying are much more satisfying and precise. Sure, they are much more expensive but the investment will pay off.

[@aoescool]

i have t16000 on my left and alogi extreme 3d on my right. i wish i knew about these from the beginning.. im going to go standard on left and premium on right

[@herpderp264]

I started with a pair of the thrustshitters and now regret ever touching them since I got a pair of VKB's. Especially since mine started developing issues after about a year of use.

[@N1ko0L]

i recommand for people like me who never used dual joystick before: get 16000m, try them for 10 days and return them, because (i'm not sure it the same everywhere, at least in europe it is) you can return it free of charge on amazon before 14 days, and also fuck amazon. so if you don't like dual joystick, return them, if you like dual stick return them while you still can and buy two vkb gladiator evo, that like only 120€per month if you use paypal x4 free charge thingy, well worth it, don't stay stuck with 16000m.

[@solusquinto3086]

@@scoso1313 Unfortunately I cannot compare them. As far as I know you have to buy the base and the stick separately? But Virpil's are always a recommendation if money is no issue. I think the biggest difference is the lack of a twist axes (if I'm not mistaken) on Virpils side and which you have to workaround. Qualitywise they are on the top end ... that's what you hear everywhere. On the other end you'll have tough times finding someone not satisfied with VKB's. I can still recommend them.

[@herpderp264]

@Scoso as far as grip design, I've heard differing opinions on whether the vkb scg or the virpil constellation alphas are better and I think that's just personal opinion. As far as build quality, Virpil is on another level, but you pay for it. Virpil has an all metal gimbal versus the plastic with roller bearings that VKB NXT gimbals use. This allows for tougher springs to be used with extensions on your sticks.

[@RamHomier]

Reference the remark that VKB is harder to move, you can tweak and even completely disable the dry clutch to make it feel springy like the logitech. On the other hand you can also remove the springs and only have the dry clutch making it act like a throttle that stays in position you set.

[@xenotype_au]

Went from a t16000m with twc to dual t16000m. I used the left handed t16000m for a week before returning and grabbing two premiums from vkb.

[@stevedavey1343]

One thing that I though might be worth clarifying for others is that VKB do offer a higher-tier level as well as the Gladiator NXT; namely the Gunfighter and a variety of great grips that mount on it, including the Kosmisma grip (basically the same grip as on the Gladiator NXT) up to VKB's MCG Ultimate (only available in right hand sadly) which is aluminium alloy with modular hat-switch/mini-stick swapping (VKB provide the swappable modules out of the box and even include the screwdriver, which is all you need to swap the modules out!). The Gladiator NXT is a brilliant mid-market offering from VKB but it's good for people to be aware of the high quality of VKB's higher tier kit.

[@RobertoLaurelli]

I had a T16000M and within 3 months the twist broke. I bought a Gladiator NXT Premium Right with the intent to move the broken T16000M to the left with twist deactivated. The problem is that when you start using the NXT the T16000M begins to feel like garbage and becomes unusable. For a while I ended up mapping everything to a single NXT and left the T16000M to collect dust. Now I finally ordered a Premium left which arrived yesterday and retired the busted T16000M .

[@LucidStrike]

Seems to be a Quality Control issue too. I've seen a good number of people say their T16 broke somehow within months while mine hasn't degraded since I bought it over 4 years ago. Also tho, I've flown the 600i almost exclusively since mid-2018, which probably leads to way less wear than for folks that fly fighters.

[@dasLumpi]

Thanks, this helped me a lot.

[@floridaman5654]

Been looking at the T16000 but you convinced me to get the VKB. 👌💯 Hands down the quality looks 1000 x superior. Thanks for the review!

[@Stuartcutting]

Love the VKB sticks. I got the t16000 when I first started playing SC but the z axis broke twice within 6 months so ended up buying the VKB NXT standard instead and it was so good I then bought the premium for the left hand too. I bought the kit to upgrade the standard to the premium last week and that worked well despite there being instructions for one of the hat changes and not the other two parts. Getting the VKB pedals tomorrow which I am looking forward to. One thing of warning if buying in the UK is that due to brexit the price on the website despite claiming to include vat is only eu so you have to pay it to the delivery company as duty on import. Got a surprise bill from them today.

[@N1ko0L]

yeah, also no 14 days return for uk if i'm correct ?

[@LucidStrike]

I used to fly dual sticks but switched to HOSAM to get back the precision of the mouse. T16 on the left. With a modifier button setup on the mouse and the double-tap option in the game, the buttons are setup to handle many functions. 🤷🏿‍♂️

[@billywashere6965]

Glad someone is honest about what works best. I've been thinking about two joysticks for Star Citizen, and it makes sense to just go with two of the best.

[@marktvcturner2448]

Thanks for the video. I never owned a T16000 but did have an X52 Pro setup which may be more on par with the thrustmaster. Very happy I've got two NXTs now, especially with the omni conversion on the left hand stick. It feels amazing in Star Citizen.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

That omni conversion looks great!

[@Duvoncho]

Got a pair of T16000Ms in the cupboard. They served their purpose until I made the decision to get x2 Virpil Constellation Alphas and a CM3 throttle (and the new Z angle adapter for left stick is incredible). Yes I know that is pushing a couple of grand here in UK money once you add up the customs fees. But I did save for a long time and build up bit by bit (I'm not rich, just patient). I don't regret spending out 100 odd quid on the T16000s either. It was that initial purchase that convinced me that the immersion experience was worth investing in. if you enjoy the sticks then you will absolutely not regret going all out.

[@stevedavey1343]

One thing that might be worth clarifying for others reading this is that whilst Virpil make great higher-tier kit (I still have my ol' faithful Virpil v1 T-50 throttle), VKB do offer a higher-tier level too; namely the Gunfighter and a variety of great grips that mount on it up to VKB's MCG Ultimate (only available in right hand sadly) which is aluminium alloy with modular hat-switch/mini-stick swapping (VKB provide the swappable modules out of the box and even include the screwdriver, which is all you need to swap the modules out!). The Gladiator NXT is a brilliant mid-market offering from VKB but it does tend to overshadow the high quality of VKB's higher tier kit.

[@Duvoncho]

@@stevedavey1343 Absolutely. I have no intention of portraying VKB as an inferior manufacturer. They're simply not the brand I went for. I actually very nearly purchased a Gunfighter when I first decided to upgrade the left stick. It was partly my vanity in wanting the sticks to match that made me get the second Alpha. Those twin NXTs look bloody amazing. And not just "good for that price" either. 👍

[@stevedavey1343]

@@Duvoncho Yeah, I knew you weren't saying that but a lot of people aren't aware of VKB's higher tier of joystick (still no TECS throttle though VKB! :-[ ) so I thought I'd add some more information for others reading. ;)

[@JAnx01]

@@stevedavey1343 I've seen people claim that VKB use a single-cam designs in some of their higher-end models, which is more compromising than the dual-cam design used by Virpil. Either way, both companies are a godsent to the enthusiast sim community that has been treated poorly by the mainstream manufacturers for a long time.

[@stevedavey1343]

@@JAnx01 It is a single cam system yes. But those of us who have had and used both the VKB Gunfighter and the Virpil T-50 bases (both the v1 and the CM2) tend to lean towards the Gunfighter. The difference is marginal and the T-50 base is a great one but that marginal difference does seem to be noticed in direct comparison. As you say though, having both VKB and Virpil on the scene makes this a bit of a golden age! ;)

[@SoulEsne]

This is such a great, to the point, comparison. Thanks for saving me the hassle of going cheap and making a mistake I would only have to correct later!

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

No problem, glad to help!

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

And thanks so much for the super thanks! KZbin doesn't tell me when a message is a super thanks, sorry I missed it!

[@SoulEsne]

Np at all. I didn't know it was a thing until I went to comment lol. You definitely saved me some money and time so thanks again.

[@tamberello1966]

Good video, I think it is a real honest review. You touched on the things to consider. But if you are playing Star Citizen a lot then I would recommend getting at least one VKB. I started with the HOTAS (T16000) and upgraded to one Gladiator, a couple of months later I got a left-handed VKB. The duel sticks is a serious game changer. You covered all the pros and cons and those that are on the fence about making the investment should re-watch the video. lol

[@jimashby43]

The best unboxing I've ever seen

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Because it was so quick?!

[@jimashby43]

Yes, those usually bore me to death, but the speed made it fun.

[@red_3ye]

I have the VKB gladiator premium on the right hand and a t16000 on left hand and did the z axis mod on the t16000 and I am happy with both provided you are willing to pay the extra money for the hal sensor and magnets and actually modify the t16000. I have neen using this config for 8 months plus and have no complaints.

[@Foulmouth231]

This made me decide to go straight to 2 VKB’s now I gotta save up.

[@Greymist73]

I started with the T16,000 Joystick and Hotas, then moved up to a Warthog hotas setup a few years ago, missed the twist on the T16,000 and found the Gladiator NXT Standard and have run that ever since. Wish I'd found it sooner.

[@boris-kraken8185]

Started on TM1600 Upgraded to a NXT and a gladiator THQ throttle. New upgrade the NXT to a gunfighter III You also got the base NXT The prem one has a extra trigger and a mini joystick

[@TheInsaneupsdriver]

I'm using the T16000 as my main/right hand one, but i'm using a FarmStick as my left/secondary. it has 37 buttons compared to the T16000's 26.

[@SatoruJesusIII]

And im sold on the VKBs. Thanks for the info and im ready to blow all my cash on a Star citizen sim. o7

[@bobbydellaserra441]

I lubed up my t16000 hotas with nyogel 767a on both the stick and the throttle. Made this cheaper set feel a lot more expensive. Especially on the throttle. Feels like I'm pushing hydrolic fluid.

[@sketchtherapy1218]

I love your videos keep up the good work.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Thank you!

[@thisSaint]

left hand Gladiator + right hand mouse = love

[@PatEagle787]

I've been using a Thrustmaster T16000m FCS Flight Pack (HOTAS + pedals) for 3 years now. Great setup.

[@bobbydellaserra441]

Same here. Are you using nyogel on the throttle?

[@PatEagle787]

@@bobbydellaserra441 No. Not yet. I've been using my setup once every 2 to 3 weeks for the last 3 years. I don't play everyday due to work and private life. The throttle is still silky smooth to this day.

[@bobbydellaserra441]

@@PatEagle787 kzbin.info/www/bejne/j32ro6ykmrGWa68 Just check this out. The difference is night and day. I know you say your throttle is smooth but I have a hard time believing you. Lol Based on how my set felt when I got mine. After I applied this nyogel to both the throttle and the stick it feels like a much more expensive set. The stick feels meaty and the throttle feels like it attached to some hydrolic actuators or some space ship stuff. It's worth the trouble.

[@PatEagle787]

@@bobbydellaserra441 Thanks for the info. I'll make sure to apply some in the not too distant future. I'll need it sooner or later anyway. For now the throttle still feels smooth, lol. Do you use your kit very frequently? That would explain why the sliding mechanism get degraded faster in your case.

[@bobbydellaserra441]

@@PatEagle787 it felt like crap straight out of the box. My brother in law the same. We straight away started looking online and all the internet seamed to know of the issue. (That's why I don't believe you) Everyone was talking about this nyogel and how great our sticks would feel if we lubed them up. So we did. And wow. Wouldn't you know the internet was right about using lube. So then we figure it would work great on our hotas setups as well. Anyway, I've been playing with it for about a year now. I really like playing with my stick so I do it a lot. 12 hour sessions sometimes. I work seasonally and I don't have kids yet. Probably cause I play with my stick too much. But I'm happy to say I have no signs of wear at all yet.

[@isonnol]

Solid review, and you fortunately also provide the confirmation bias I was seeking to keep buyer's remorse at bay while I wait on mine to arrive 🤣 To prevent damaged dreams due to budget creep, note that the perks of being in America get shot down pretty quickly by a 26% price increase for the premium model, putting it at $208 for me. That percent will be higher for standard models of course. I barely stretched my budget to make this my first stick. There's also the week or two added shipping time, and though it seems quite a low probability, customs may also intervene and contribute to delays. Canadian citizens are worse off still with a 5%-13% import tax added to the total. US citizens only pay an import tax on purchases valued over $800, so it's not difficult to avoid even if you wanted to get a couple of NXTs for HOSAS

[@w00f72]

I did exactly what you did, bought a thrustmaster then a VKB. Eventually I bought a second VKB. There’s really nothing better at that price point. Just go VKB from the get go if you can.

[@XiXGoldeyXiX]

Great comparison! The T16000's does really look (and sound) cheap! Did you get any experience using them on foot, or would they require a setup that lets you put them away and use a keyboard and mouse instead?

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Thanks! Yeah the build quality difference is pretty massive between the two! I didn't attempt any FPS gameplay with them- I think it's always going to be best to go with mouse and keyboard!

[@J-C8573]

Its important to mention that the t16000 will last you about 1 year of usage, whereas VKB's will last you over 5 years. Only buy the t16000 if you want to try it out and are not serious about getting into joysticks

[@24879067marshall]

yeah im using a hotas thrustmaster and it sorts of works but the buttons feel bad and its way over sprung so it bounces around. Thanks for the review I was looking at the VKB but most reviews I see are full on sim pits ranting about cam's and binds and I just glaze over. Once again another quality Video.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Happy to try to help! Yeah its a bit of a mine field looking for reviews of this stuff!

[@sketchtherapy1218]

I have t16's I broke the hat & twist on one the other one works great if you are careful they will last, if you get too exited you;ll snap the twist and break it. I also recomend never to bind break & boost to hat switches on a t16 you might break the hat switch. I still recomend t16's as minimum don't get cheaper than this it won't be worth it. I've heard great things about VKB and after a year with t16's it's an upgrade I want.

[@therealdontclickme]

just blew through my 4th tm1600, z rotation keeps going bad on them. I decided to go ahead and go for the vkb gladiator premiums (both left and right) so i hope they do well.

[@MGB2408]

Am going to buy one Gladiator for now

[@crispy9175]

Does anyone know what the differences between sensor hardware is for these two? I think i remember the t1600m, maybe the gladiator too, have a magnetic hall effect sensor or something. Anyone know?

[@TairnKA]

I use dual T16KMs, because of tremors I'm unable to use a keyboard and mouse while flying (ok on foot and EVA, FPS?) so I need to have access to the various functions close at hand. Unfortunately the Z-axis defect has been expensive, but I've no better option.

[@Tainted-Soul]

Well I have a X52 stick and throttle setup for elite and then my Wife got me a surprise for Christmas Dual set of T.16000 m sticks as she found out from someplace that said they was best for Star Citizen :) so nice of her and I must say If I was looking for them myself I may have gone for a VKB or something else but dual sticks wasn't on my mind but now using them and getting used to them it is a great way and I would say the only way to fly a space ship. I may get rudder peddles for roll it would make it better taking that movement off the sticks. the software for the Thrustmaster is a bit crap and I couldnt get it to work but lucky Star Citizen has a profile already in game. My T.1600 are new and look a little different to yours and also dont move so sloppy ( this may change with age ) . I agree the buttons are a waste of time in game fighting as i put then either side of the key board I just use the Keys LOL . Also Mining is SOOOOOOOO much easier with throttle ( Right stick ) left one is use to max speed set . it

[@joronasc]

I had the T16000M and problems with it. I upgraded to: VKB Gunfighter II on the right side and VKB Gladiator NXT left ... and later i upgraded the Gladiator on the left to the VKB Gunfighter III. *BUT* The upgrade from T16000M to Gladiator VKB was like *wohaaaaaaaaa how much better* and the upgrade from Gladiator to Gunfighter was *yes ... its better i can feel* but not this *HUGE* difference. So buying Gladiator is totally fine!

[@mrbaglog]

For me the deciding factor was how much I was going to play SC. I started playing in 3.12 and the game just didn’t feel ready enough for me to make it my main game, so I picked up two cheap sticks (Logitech extreme 3D pros). You are right in that 2 sticks, even cheap ones, transforms the experience. Fast forward to today, I have been playing SC daily since 3.15 and my skill has reached a place where I can tell very precisely what annoys me about the tools I am using. I am comfortable with the appx. $100 I spent on the cheap sticks being a sunk cost because I got over a year’s worth of use and didn’t feel guilty when they sat in a box for a few months. Question for you: how playable are the Gladiators on a desk surface? Trying to decide if I need to get the desk mounts at the same time or not.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

That all makes complete sense and I agree! I found the the desk was an issue for the t16000, it doesn't feel planted in any way and moves around a lot. But the NXT feels much more secure. You might eventually want to mount them, but for me, I am happy with mine on the desk.

[@mrbaglog]

@@tenpoundfortytwo cheers

[@DrPet80]

to be fair. The Extreme 3d Pro is a very good joystick. My 3D Pro lastet over 15 years. I even used it as the left Stick for SC quite a time. But the axis where worn out and i had to replace it. Now i use 2 VKBs. Left one with EVO Omni extension.

[@electrospud9230]

would be nice to get theVKB gladiators but they only ship to Canada and the US, the thrusmasters are however readily available in my country, there's also the Virpil sticks but the website shows that all of the sticks and base are back ordered. Flying mouse and keyboard is a real pain in SC for me at least :)

[@joshuarader419]

I started with a single T16000, then added a CH products combat stick. After 3-6 months i started having issues with both, first button problems with the 16000, then axis issues with the CH. I was trying to convince myself to spend the money on thy VIRPIL when i found the Gladiators. I got a pair and have been nothing but impressed. I highly recommend them for all but the MOST dedicated players, or those with plenty of money. The VIRPIL sticks look amazing, but the VKB are 90% the VIRPIL for much less than 90% the price.

[@JAnx01]

The Gladiator NXT doesn't compete with any Virpil products. At the higher end, they're priced similarly. Virpil just don't have a mid-range product yet and it's questionable if they'll ever will as they don't have access to the Chinese infrastructure like VKB does.

[@bananasandbass]

Where do you buy the VKB Gladiator in EU Netherlands? Probably want to go for HOSAM actually, as mouse aim is intuitive for me in hours of FPS. Flight with keyboard just feels so limiting

[@AxelsGaming123]

Nice video m8! I recommend any citizen to fly with sticks. It is much more enjoyable :)

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Completely agree! Thanks!

[@mikejones-nd6ni]

Start with the Gladiator NXT EVO (Space Combat Edition) & the Gladiator NXT EVO Omni Throttle (both premium) it's $400 and anything less isn't really worth it IMO

[@jimashby43]

Maybe at the next Christmas I'll get one.

[@PhillipLemmon]

Hey could you do a vid on the non rtx laptop or desktop gpu's..? Like the 1650 /1650ti and the 1660-ti? I'm just trying to get a real world bead on how SC works graphics wise, lol (I don't think I'll be able to afford a machine or a build anytime soon) Please and thank you! Great video by the way! Keep up the great work,

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Yep good suggestions! I've done a fair bit with the 1060 6gb which is fairly similar to those ones you've mentioned. I would love to do some laptop testing this year- it's one of my goals!

[@PhillipLemmon]

@@tenpoundfortytwo absolutely wonderful! I thanks for the reply.

[@mrexpendable1232]

like everyone is saying, the t16000ms don't last as long as the VKBs, but as always, budget comes into play so here is my recommendation as someone who's owned 2 of both sets: If money's tight, just get one T1600m to try out flying with joystick. If you decide you like it and later on want to upgrade, I'd get a right handed VKB and swap the T16000m to the left configuration, keep the higher quality stick in your right hand and the cheaper one in your left. Eventually you can pick up a left VKB to complete the set, but this is a good slow upgrade path if you can't just buy 2 VKBs right out of the gatev

[@no-target3152]

I've got twin 16000m's and love them but know I need an update. Looking at the Virpil but scared of the price.. The Thrustmasters do have an issue with the Z axis sometimes and I need to strip them down and use a contact cleaner for the twist sensor. A bit fiddly but they still work.

[@jimashby43]

Me to

[@eavdmeer]

Seems the twist is more or less guaranteed to break sooner or later. I saw one mod to replace the twist potentiometer with a HAL sensor.

[@Solar546]

@@eavdmeer where i can find this mod?

[@eavdmeer]

@@Solar546 kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHPSkJd3q8yNZ80

[@doctorno3912]

I was almost gonna buy the t1600. So glad my friend talked me out of them and to grab the gladiator nxts. Quality piece of kit with a premium feel. It's no wonder they're highly recommend. I can also vouch for the t-rudder pedals by vkb. Love them and can't see myself playing s.c without them.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

I might have to take a look at the pedals! What do bind to them?

[@Jahru]

@@tenpoundfortytwo I have the same setup, 2NXTs and t-rudder pedals from VKB. All quality products! I bound fwd/bwd strafe to them, so it's like driving a car. This is very intuitive, but very different from the classic flight sim setup where yaw is bound to the pedals. This is no problem for me, since I am playing exclusively space sims.

[@ioritenshi]

its not even a fair comparison since the gladiator costs almost double the price of the t16

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

That's a fair point, they are not directly comparable. But they are the closest options to each other.

[@ioritenshi]

@@tenpoundfortytwo what about the Logitech x52 pro or x56?

[@ditobaon]

I've gone through x52, x52 pro, x56, and finally the VKBs (I got all the logitechs used so not full price). VKBs are far and away better. Definitely worth the money and unless you're trying to get some Virpil Constellation Alphas for more than twice the price of the VKBs, and arguably less functional due to the height of the controls making tabletop very uncomfortable, these are definitely the go to space sim flight sticks.

[@Rogun987]

I couldn't stand my X56. I have pretty big hands, and even then, the X56 was not comfortable at all. Constantly readjusting my hand to reach buttons. The joystick is massive.

[@Merciful_Angel]

Right now, the T16000M is £45 on the Thrustmaster site and the budget NXT is still £123 each, so I am a little torn. Many people seem to do okay with the cheaper sticks, but everyone recommends the Gladiators (or Virpils)

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

That's a good price and a tricky decision. If you think you're going to use them a lot I'd probably still lean towards the nxts though!

[@pilks4k]

Just checked them out they have released a new version but for some reason they are charging US customers $135 for the standard version and us in the EU €180,00 which is a big price hike...

[@jasperslair]

What advantage do you see dual sticks would have over Hotas? I currently have the x52 and want to upgrade the stick to a vkb but I don’t see the advantage of replacing the throttle with another stick.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Good question! A bit of a rubbish answer, but in my opinion, it 'feels' much better. Plus having the extra analogue axis' gives you a more control I think. But like all things, if you're happy with your setup I wouldn't necessarily upgrade just because some random internet person thinks so!

[@crispy9175]

Dual stick let's you bind all degrees of movement at once.

[@jasperslair]

I value your opinion and I find it quite valid especially with the “feels” better. It’s about the immersion and the more authentic the feel, the better it is. Was going to present an argument, doesn’t it get tiring pushing on the stick all the time for throttle especially when cruising around a prospector looking for rocks but I guess that where cruise control would help a lot. Just need full vr support and that would truly make it immersive. And head tracking… I think I can hear my wallet screaming at me.

[@Ryecrash617]

I flew on a Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS for 5 years and a year ago I got a T16000 HOTAS. I love my T16000 and can't help but wonder if the VKB is twice as good as the T16000 as it is about twice the price.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Tricky to recommend spending the money when you already have a working setup, but it's at least twice as good in my opinion!

[@stevedavey1343]

It's more than twice the quality, precision and durability. This latter aspect is kinda important. The T16000 will break/degrade sooner or later. The NXT (because of the materials, the engineering design and the quality of manufacture) might well be in your will passed on to your kids! :D There are ways (warranty voiding) to lengthen the lifetime of a T16000 and they're not an awful value proposition to be honest if you're not sure how much you're going to get on with a joystick but the value proposition of the NXT is significantly better and a no-brainer if you're pretty much decided on flying with a stick or two (and why would you use a M+KB for SC? It's a game largely about piloting a spaceship, not writng emails and creating Excel spreadsheets! :D). The other thing is that the NXT will keep it's value if you decide you want to sell it on.

[@Ryecrash617]

@@stevedavey1343 Thanks for the explanation. I guess I have a delicate touch. I used the cheapest HOTAS available (Thrustmaster T-Flight) for 5 years straight and it still functions perfectly, I just wanted something with more buttons so I got the T16000.

[@rovex_]

I think for that price i would just look at a second hand Saitek X-55 set. you get a throttle and stick and both are fine quality. here i have seen them ranging from 120 - 180 euros for a set

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Secondhand is always a good option!

[@phillheth]

X55 is a terrible stick. A million buttons but the indents are so crap they're really hard to use. The spring is super weak. You'll need to put a dead zone in.

[@Jahru]

I started out with a second hand X52 Pro, which is not bad. I then bought a left hand NXT to play HOSAS and after testing a bit, I immediately bought a second NXT to replace the X52 entirely. The NXT is sooo much better! If people can afford it, I would advise for SC (and probably other games as well) to buy a single NXT as their first joystick. There is a throttle wheel at the base and enough hats for the other DOF in space sims.

[@stevedavey1343]

The X55 is an appalling POS. The X56 isn't much better. Saitek haven't made a good HOTAS since the X45. Honestly the NXT, precision and durability wise beats anything from Logitech/Saitek and TM (including the Warthog, which is little more than just a T16000M in a pretty frock). The only better alternatives (in the sub $1K, I mean) are the cam and bearing gimbal based sticks from VKB, Virpil and Win Wing.

[@eight_track]

Think I'm just going to buy a single VKB Gladiator premium and see how I fair at using a joystick on Star Citizen. Once I'm happy with that, I think I'll purchase a VKB Gladiator Omni Throttle for the left stick.

[@lubosmartinkovic2549]

It looks like you forgot calibrate the gladiator NXT. Probably not big deal, but at least after calibration he stop weird flashing.

[@robertsavello4120]

I currently have two t16000's. i've taken both apart 3 times to fix the phantom z axis drift crap that inevitably happens. I do NOT recommend the t16000 to anyone. get something better. I have virpil's on the way and I can't wait. if i could do it again i'd get the VKB to start out with.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

It's funny, I've had my t16000 for years but haven't had any issues with it- is yours the newer orange model or the same green one that I've got. Overall all though I completely agree, I would recommend skipping them!

[@robertsavello4120]

@@tenpoundfortytwo Mine are the newer orange ones. I bought 'em back in 2019. I will say i've gotten quite good at disassembling them to fix it. It's still very annoying though.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

I can imagine! Enjoy the Virpils- they look like another amazing step up from the vkbs!

[@robertsavello4120]

@@tenpoundfortytwo Thanks!

[@stevedavey1343]

@@tenpoundfortytwo VKB do offer a higher-tier level as well as the Gladiator NXT (VKB were founded in 2003 and were the first to bring a cam and bearing gimbal to the commercial market, well before Virpil's entry in 2015, not that Virpil don't make great kit, they do, it's comparable with VKB's higher tier kit); namely the Gunfighter and a variety of great grips that mount on it, including the Kosmisma grip (basically the same grip as on the Gladiator NXT) up to VKB's MCG Ultimate (only available in right hand sadly) which is aluminium alloy with modular hat-switch/mini-stick swapping (VKB provide the swappable modules out of the box and even include the screwdriver, which is all you need to swap the modules out!). The Gladiator NXT is a brilliant mid-market offering from VKB but it's good for people to be aware of the high quality of VKB's higher tier kit.

[@frasermanley9903]

That's the next 2 Xmas sorted. I'll just inform the wife.

[@fgreece9481]

Virpil constellation alpha has the crown!

[@uowebfoot]

I've been reading that using a single stick and mouse is better. Have you tried it?

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

I haven't tried that combo! I have heard some people like it though.

[@kaisersolo76]

@tenpoundfortytwo How much did the postage and charges cost for the Gladiator Next standard joystick to the UK??????

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Good question- just had a look through the emails, it was about £12 from the European website.

[@kaisersolo76]

@@tenpoundfortytwo any import tax vat ?

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Not as far as I can see!

[@reter312]

the price raised a bit, now is 180euros for the standard and 220 euros for the premium

[@renekkingwildrift2116]

So do you use the joysticks to walk around or, do you switch to keyboard for that

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Switch to keyboard for walking around, so you do need some desk space to fit everything on!

[@renekkingwildrift2116]

@@tenpoundfortytwo oh great, thanks a lot

[@matthewhughes1950]

"Starter" 80-100 bucks. I mean...I guess? I consider starter like 20 to 50 bucks. I got a logitech 3dpro for 20 bucks. Tbh super solid starter stick.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Yeah it's tricky, neither option is what I would consider budget. But the t16000 is often recommended as a first stick, so I wanted to compare it to the next option up. But I agree, you cant really complain about the 3dpro for $20!

[@DrPet80]

i bought the t16000s left and right. after a quick look at it i packed and returned to the seller. then i bought a VKB Gladiator NXT pro for right hand. It was amazing. later i bought another VKB NXT Pro EVO with Omni. Its a dream. I play space combat games since X-Wing. VKB is my best expierince since today with sticks. By the way. its cheaper to pay 400 Euro for Joysticks which last for a long time and are easy repairable then buying cheap plastik shit every year.

[@BuzZzKiller]

You're lucky to have the old Green T-16000. The Orange ones (made after MadCatz purchased Thrustmaster) suffer from poor build quality and the Z axis goes out on them constantly. I've moved on to Virpil Alphas, but those are definitely for people with patience (they don't make many of them) and plenty of disposable income. The VKB's strike a nice balance between the two.

[@aquamich129]

madcatz was aquired by Turtle beach, Thrustmaster is a different company pal

[@BuzZzKiller]

@@aquamich129I'm not your Pal, Buddy.

[@aquamich129]

@@BuzZzKiller maybe. But u were wrong dude

[@BuzZzKiller]

@@aquamich129 Congratulations. I confused Thrustmaster with Saitek. Madcatz bought Saitek and ruined that brand. Guillemot bought Thrustmaster. I award you 1 internet point. Don't spend it all in one place.

[@aquamich129]

@@BuzZzKiller actually no. Logitech bought sauter. Turtle beach bought mad catholique and thrustmaster is a brand

[@lordPix3lUK]

Is the vkb worth the price over the thrustmaster?

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

I definitely think so!

[@williamgollatz1911]

so why not a HOTAS?

[@KhairulFadzlyAKarim]

T16000 is a good stick until the z axis failed which if how frequent we play SC will not last a year. Waiting for my VKB 😊 to arrive.

[@chuka4901]

I mean it is a good video. But they are not even comparable. Fiat 500 vs Mclaren P1. Completely different price tag and market. A good comparasion will be maybe Virpil vs VKB.

[@tomfoolery1967]

I have two Gladiator NXT premium and I love these things. I would recommend them to anyone. The feel of it and access to buttons are SO nice. I wanted the Virpil but I could just never pull the trigger...Ha...ha... on getting them and the Gladiator NXTs were the next best options. I love them and I ditto your opinions on them.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Yep the virpils are just in a complete other price zone! Looking forward to getting a right hand NXT premium at some point in the future!

[@tomfoolery1967]

@@tenpoundfortytwo I think you’ll love it. I went with the premium for bot because I like to tinker and having the extra parts I thought was cool. But I love the control and feel of these and you get that with either version.

[@bobbydellaserra441]

To anyone using a thrustmaster hotas setup, do yourself a favor and get a tube of nyogel 767a and apply it to the throttle slides and to the ball joint for the stick. It will make this cheaper setup feel like quality. This is a good comparison video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/j32ro6ykmrGWa68

[@deio977]

2 x T16000M - 2 x VKB Gladiator Premium L+R = day and night

[@neutronstar-ts5bn]

Could you share the key settings of vkb and t16000m?

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

I don't quite understand the question sorry, what do you mean by key settings?

[@neutronstar-ts5bn]

@@tenpoundfortytwo I have VKB gladiator NXT EVO and T16000m. I need joystick setup profile! I want to set it up like you!

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Oh I see! I don't actually have any profiles saved at the moment. I think you probably should base your settings off this popular guide. www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/tta9n7/buzzzkillers_recommended_bindings_updated_for_317/

[@joewaz100]

What is that that you're flying around in the game.. I don't think it's in the game anymore?

[@CowwieNZ]

My dual T16000s are stored away I hate how few buttons it has and its poor quality hat and spring back, i've actually gone back to using dual Logitech 3d pro joysticks(left stick reshaped) while i save up for something like this, not looking forward to getting it shipped all the way to nz :-/.

[@charlestaylor8344]

The problem with VKB stuff is it's hard to actually get in the UK

[@Ash_Rackham]

Just buy better to begin with and skip the Thrustmaster sticks, the T16000 has serious quality and button position issues and seems like a good deal but is false economy, because you end buying it, then realising just how poorly constructed it is and it inevitably breaks on the twist or becomes unusable due to drift and you will end up buying the higher quality Viripils or VKBs anyway. So save some money and don't waste your money on Thrustmaster and then have to replace them.

[@eavdmeer]

I bought the T16000M with the throttle. *Hated* it! It's still sitting in the box and my 'dual stick' setup is instead an XBox Elite controller. Two sticks. One for pitch/roll and the other for vertical strafe/yaw. I use the paddles for left/right strafe. In addition, I use simple Thrustmaster pedals for strafe forward/back. Very compact solution and not too expensive either.

[@shayeladshayelad2416]

I have the Logitech extreme pro and i bought the Thrustmaster T.Flight HOTAS 4 49$ on amazon! Great price which will arrive on the 20 of this month And you choose t160000😅🤣

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

That's a good price! There are definitely cheaper options than even the t16000, let me know how the t.flight is when it arrives!

[@shayeladshayelad2416]

@@tenpoundfortytwo Will update here in the comments😄👍🏼

[@shayeladshayelad2416]

I plug the new tflight hotas 4 First of all it got most of the setting for the game already from one of thrustmaster in game profile and its great saves a lot of time Still need to tweak it some It fill much better then the logitec extream pro while gaming my only minus for the hots 4 right now is the thrust handle i wish it was more resistant while moving up and down Definitely worth 49$

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

@@shayeladshayelad2416 good stuff! Enjoy!

[@BLACKSYNTH]

I'm infinitely better with K & M than with x52 pro Hotas...........It's hard for me to invest in 2 sticks or an extra stick for it to suck and still prefer M&K.

[@avrok]

Honestly can't justify getting 2 of the standard Gladiators when I'm not even sure I'll stick with Dual sticks. $175 for the T16s vs the $550 for the two Gladiators. I know how dogshit they are thanks to the SC community on Reddit. Hoping they prove better than my Hotas X which was enough for Microsoft flight sim. Leave a comment if you want to know how my luck with the T16s are here in Aus.

[@Darktidejg31]

Is it really $70-100 to ship to the US? Was going to get these but my cheap ass needs to rethink this lol. For the NXT

[@Darktidejg31]

For the NXT

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Are you on the US site?

[@Darktidejg31]

@@tenpoundfortytwo I believe so, I placed an order for two premium nxt evos and shipping for DHL was $100 and FedEx was 70 so I paused about the purchase. Seems high. At that point I thought about Virgil Alphas but they were on backorder. Was just going to get one Alpha and they would equal the two evos with shipping.

[@N1ko0L]

i recommand for people like me who never used dual joystick before: get 16000m, try them for 10 days and return them, because (i'm not sure it the same everywhere, at least in europe it is) you can return it free of charge on amazon before 14 days, and also fuck amazon. so if you don't like dual joystick, return them, if you like dual stick return them while you still can and buy two vkb gladiator evo, that like only 110€per month if you use paypal x4 free charge thingy, and buy premium one (that i recommand immesly, also if your planning on using it to play "modern" flight sim where a hotas would be recommanded, get an omni nxt, it only 10€ more than the normal premium one, but it well worth it, don't stay stuck with 16000m.

[@FalconsLedge]

There is really no comparison between these two. There is nothing that the T16K can do that the GNX can't do significantly better. The GNX is a better bang for your buck too. The only reason to go with the T16K is of there is no ability to afford the GNX. Also, premium edition is totally worth it, don't buy the standard.

[@jordan1982]

Toys vs tool. No comparison.

[@chuka4901]

exactly

[@diverspudph1310]

That was hardly a fair comparison Lol! VKB hand's down. I own one (and it's older brother, the Gunfighter). Premium price, but premium device as well. Highly recommended

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

You're definitely right, this wasn't really a fair fight!

[@Rogun987]

If you're spending hundreds of dollars on fake spaceships why not just also invest in quality hardware. Dual VKB sticks are worth your investment in the game.

[@madflyer1093]

With the current prices of thrustmasters VS the absolute garbage that they are. Skip the t16000 and get the vkb

[@SIGNALacquired]

Every biological male has a joystick *wink* *wink*.

[@Leptospirosi]

Do not buy The TM16000: it's utter garbage. It will do fine for about a couple of months, then it the controls will start bugging out and you won't be able to fly anymore. It's a terrible design problem, where the switches and the resistors will start oxidizing, notably the twist one and losing accuracy untill hey are unusable. 80$£€ may seem a a bargain compared to 120, but what if you have to replace your sticks every 3-4 months? The Joystic is not worth more the 30$ at max. You can open up the fiddly joystick and try to clean them up with some Isopropyl alcohol, or some circuit cleaning liquid but it's a mess due to the extremely low build quality, and when the joystick will lose accuracy in the main directions, there is nothing you can do.

[@Jamie-666]

If you have one joystick, for the love of god, use your keyboard.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

I did agree for a long time, but I found a way that I preferred just using the stick! I expect that's pretty rare though!