Star Trek First Contact - Captain Picard is confronted about the Borg being his white whale

In the last third of the film Captain Picard is confronted by his 21st century guest Lilly Sloane, asking why if they can stop the Borg taking over the ship by blowing it up, why don't they do it? It comes to a head that Picard is suffering from PTSD as well as a quest for vengeance for the violations he suffered back during the series of Star Trek The Next Generation when the Borg assimilated him and made him Locutus of Borg. In this scene Lilly calls him Ahab, comparing the Borg to the white whale Moby Dick. It is in this that Picard realizes he is putting the crew and the future of humanity down a path where he could get them all killed for his revenge.

[@jaywalkersunite]

Sometimes it feels like this entire movie was just a vehicle to deliver us this scene. And I'm here for it.

[@PMRoanhouse]

i agree the catharsis of remembering the ideals of which the federation was built on verse the fear from abuse that closes you off from this confrontation is what i thought about after 9/11 attacks. When you operate on fear and pain you cloud yourself to the issues of the well being of others.

[@Slopmaster]

I would say it was more like this scene was a summation of what the movie was really about.

[@CobraGTXNoS]

This movie was great from start to finish.

[@darthimperious1594]

@@PMRoanhouse What I loved about it was that it made Picard a human being. Up until this point, he seemed to be this ideal pinnacle of what humanity could be, that is as yet unachievable. But showing this side, showing him to be a flawed human being, it made Picard now seem... closer. I have flaws that I need to overcome. So does Picard. Maybe I can become like Picard. Just wonderful writing.

[@xpeterx]

@@darthimperious1594 that is poetically perfectly worded. thank you

[@fragglet]

One of the few times we ever see Picard get angry. Patrick Stewart was for a long time afraid of portraying anger on stage because of his childhood experiences with his abusive father. He's still in therapy today.

[@Thunder_Dome45]

Are you insinuating that is why I am so explosive? Abusive father? He wasn't abusive until he got drunk. It's not his fault.

[@Bobsmith-xq2pr]

@@Thunder_Dome45 Wtf are you on about

[@watcher805]

​@@Bobsmith-xq2pr did you even read or are you an idiot? His dad got drunk and beat him, but he doesnt hold it against him because it was the alcohol. Are you so privileged you never got beat?

[@tarasrakya8414]

His father was a traumatised war veteran. He'd been through Dunkirk and ended up fighting at Arnhem 4 years later. To experience Dunkirk was one thing, but to then go on and endure Arnhem as well, I'm not sure how anyone could stay sane.

[@PuppetierMaster]

@@tarasrakya8414 few did and less than those were the ones that did were sadly experienced to that level of destruction both physically and mentally due to World War 1. Remember, both world wars would've seen terrible age cross overs for most of them.

[@andrewh5136]

Love the way he growls "And I will make them PAY for what they've done!" Stewart does an excellent job of portraying that pent-up rage Picard carried.

[@PMRoanhouse]

Andrew H rage and trauma, he is basically a victim of rape and forced membership into a cult with forced drugs (assimilation) to make him comply while they had him. All of that plus the confused emotions from even parts of him liking it and missing it is what causes all the anger, is how i analyze it.

[@Robert_Douglass]

@@PMRoanhouse That's a fairly accurate assessment. This is a perfect example of PTSD. And to think that by the late 24th century we might have figured ways to do away with it...

[@onetakem]

@@Robert_Douglass Part of the problem is that he never really shared how deeply the assimilation affected him, like many, many people, especially leaders, he kept it to himself. I think one of the really special things about the writing of his character is that over time, seasons and movies, he gradually opens up to his crew and friends and becomes a healthier person.

[@PMRoanhouse]

@@Robert_Douglass the point of the movies and show is humans can still be terrible, can still be amoral and still even good ones can be broken and prideful or scared to show weakness. Star trek is a series of morality plays showing a mirror to the issues of society. You can't get rid of something that is part of being human. There is a reason a ship's counselor / therapist is a thing.

[@rickyjayster2586]

Patrick Stewart also played captain ahab in moby dick

[@uberjens]

I love that Sloane calls Picard, Ahab, without having read the book herself. It's so relatable

[@ExtremeMadnessX]

Spoilers: Moby Dick wins!

[@knightofthenine3121]

Throwback to Patrick Stewart playing Ahab on the old Moby Dick TV movie with Pregory Peck

[@hawk66100]

@@ExtremeMadnessX He destroys the ship too lol.

[@DanielAppleton-lr9eq]

A lot of people haven't read Romeo & Juliet, A Midsummer Night's Dream, Cyrano, A Tale of Two Cities, Les Miserables, etc., but we *feel* familiar with them because of the influence they've had on our culture.

[@Elly3981]

@@DanielAppleton-lr9eq I can be pretty lazy about reading so I've watched the movies based on those stories as I imagine most people have so they understand most of the plot even if the movies don't cover all of the books.

[@adrian993]

She got Picard to see who he really was at this moment--a flawed human being hell-bent on revenge, and while he was forced to admit it to himself, he sure as hell didn't like it. The fact that she used a literary reference just hammered the point home, because he couldn't pretend NOT to understand exactly what she was saying in that one sentence, "Captain Ahab has to go hunt his whale."

[@PMRoanhouse]

Picard not even being able to see he is no different than the dredges of humanity left after the third world war, killing for food and scraps, it was the better nature of his literary "evolved" nature being questioned that he got him to see how he really was no different when his rage and anger and fear and hurt were unleashed. He had the wherewithal to rage at the wall of ships. It self showing his rage would by essence destroy the whole point of the what the federation stands for at least to him. He traveled back to a time that was the scientific breakthrough meant for money and riches and greed but in seeing its wonder and knowledge of how small and how rare the world is in the universe was the moment that galvanized shortly their after the world to unite as one in hoping of helping each other go beyond their world in hopes of knowing more, being better for the sake of self betterment of not just the self but everyone to have that ability too.

[@green49285]

Not just that. But when she reminds him h broke his models right before calling him ahab. Great writing

[@fart895]

I think thats an issue with people from Picard's time in general, they believe they're so much more 'evolved' than their ancestors when in reality not as much has changed as they think.

[@ObsidianBehemoth]

@@fart895 or as I like to say, Picard thinks humanity's shit don't stink no more.

[@ReverendSyn]

*However she in no way could possibly understand what they did to him. What he has to deal with every single goddamn **day.In** the end it would be to stop the Borg. And who is SHE to deny him that? She's basically a person who's never been raped telling a rape victim to "Get the Hell over it. If the end result is saving humanity then LET him have his revenge. At least he's trying to stop the Borg from doing to humanity what they did to him.*

[@joshuariddensdale2126]

Probably the most important scene in the whole franchise. Where Khan embraced Ahab ("to the last, I grapple with thee. From Hell's heart, I stab at thee. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee") Picard realized that he was turning into him and felt sorry.

[@onetakem]

Thats a really good observation.

[@PMRoanhouse]

@@tmontgomery9255 I like Star Trek: Picard, Star Trek: Discovery, and Star Trek: Lower Decks and look forward to the next seasons of all of them plus the new shows they have in the pipeline. I would rather there be more star trek that can grow and adapt the stories to and introduce and represent more people than the older shows had. You don't like it you can just leave and take your nasty bitter attitude with you. You know whats a trashfire? People like you, and putting lyrics to Star Trek shows like Enterprise.

[@kylephantom4]

@@PMRoanhouse I love the part in Star Trek Picard where he talks with Seven of Nine about their experiences with the borg, and while he's never recovered fully from the Borg, he has found a sense of peace with it.

[@yvettemarshallTWN]

@@kylephantom4 All you can do is smile back. There’s healing in it.

[@PMRoanhouse]

@@kylephantom4 as a survivor of a brutal attack this is what i always loved about Picard, he had that PTSD down in his performance. It was so nuanced even for a soap opera like show as star trek. It a those moments where the memory of the violation comes back while your eyes are closed in a moment of stillness and those times you sit in a dark room crying uncontrollably trying to put together and understanding of what you went through. Its why he is my favorite captain because he was the most human one, the most forged by fire of anguish and he is so reserved and awkward in many ways. I’m rewatching TNG again now and I still love his nuance.

[@diegomartinez7408]

Patrick Stewart is by far the best actor to ever worked in the Star Trek franchise

[@mistermonologue2442]

Patrick Steward has my vote for all time best actor there ever has been so far.

[@michaelesposito2629]

Have you watched Picard? Lol

[@mistermonologue2442]

@@michaelesposito2629 ?

[@davidc.2878]

I think you have to put Nimoy right next to him. One of my all time favorite Star Trek episodes is the second part of Reunification (might have the title wrong) and that amazing scene where Spock mind melds with Picard and Nimoy’s brilliantly understated but palpable realization of his father’s love. So much that is good and noble in the whole franchise comes together at that moment.

[@PMRoanhouse]

@@alcoholic402 i liked Star Trek: Picard and its post 9/11 take of the federation it was good writing to me

[@robhodges6019]

This scene is such a pivot from Roddenberry's almost ostentatious hope of future mankind. In the early seasons of TNG, there was a turning up of the nose at the past (e.g., The Neutral Zone). Here, the past calls the future out on its supposed enlightenment. Fabulous arc of writing here.

[@PMRoanhouse]

agree, we have horrors in our past we white wash daily and spend millions on propaganda on to cover up because we kick the can down further. The reason why Star Trek exists in their own universe is 70% of the world's population was wiped following genetic modification leading too a eugenics war which ended in the destruction of every major government by nuclear wars. They glanced over it in mentions in the original series, Kahn is a product of that eugenics war. The fact is we could only move forward after the people i ln power and many of their supporters were wiped out and a foreign extraterrestrial civilization took pitty on us to make sure we didn't go war like with our just discovered warp tech. And even that wasn't founded with altruism in mind. Cochran even said he did it to get rich and have truck loads of money from the only thing that survived, the parasite of capitalist corporations who wanted technology still as power and leverage over others. Earth was a waste land before first contact and it took the world realizing we were not alone, we could be more, and even then the shows like DS9 and voyager showed the xenophobia and bigotry still exist and even almost ended the federation from forming multiple times.

[@darthimperious1594]

It's a tragedy, but one I am glad they explored. What happens when an idealistic humanity, that has supposed to have overcome all of it's negative, base desires encounters an existential threat? DS9 also explored this, and it's part of what made it great.

[@dars5229]

I figure the humans of Star Trek aren't much different from the Vulcans or the Klingons. The Vulcans embrace logic but are not as unfeeling as their ideals. The Klingons cherish honour but are not as incorruptible as their ideals. The humans lionize humanity but are not as good as their ideals. And that's okay. Because no society in history has ever lived up to its own ideals. Trek is a concept of human beings as close to our full potential as progress, culture and technology allows.

[@muigokublack6487]

@@PMRoanhouse Well TNG's "The Drumhead" also brought this to the forefront. That despite how advanced and evolved humanity had became there was always going to be someone waiting for the right moment to spread fear of the other. Those who are not like us and undoing centuries of progress. DS9 took it to the next level where Starfleet in it's fear of the Changlings almost drove it to become authoritarian and the sacrificing of freedoms in the name of security. While Roddenberry's version of Starfleet is an ideal to strive for, I enjoyed where DS9 took things where there was still that optimism of the future but it was more realistic in how humanity would conduct itself when it's back was against the wall because until the Romulans entered the war the Federation was losing and losing big with covert ops like Section 31 doing things that were more or less condoned by Starfleet.

[@squirlmy]

@@PMRoanhouse but, you can see in "Picard", the writers have pivoted to the exact opposite; everything associated with the "Federation" is corrupt. Gene Roddenberry was quite clear he wanted to depict a better future; where many different races and nationalities would serve together on one ship. Sure, that's simplistic, but it's now often said the most positive thing from those original Star Trek episodes was it's multiracial, multi-ethnic crew, even including a Russian, Chekov, when irl the Cold War was still being bitterly fought. And Kirk and Uhuru's kiss, the first interracial kiss on television. It was small victory, but there it was. We can't move forward without a depiction of our ideals. I think at this point in global society we need some of that optimism again, not further depictions of humans at our worst.

[@jaythomas3224]

Alfre Woodard is a VERY emotional powerful actor along with Patrick Stewart. Them two together created the most POWERFUL scene in Star Trek history

[@PMRoanhouse]

Truth for 1000 Alex!

[@the_wheatly_core]

@@PMRoanhouse this has a new meaning now...

[@jaypee9575]

She was so amazing throughout the entire movie. One of the most realistic 'from the past' characters to ever appear in Star Trek.

[@lofthouse23]

Her growl of bullshit always gets me.

[@BlownMacTruck]

Everyone gives Patrick Stewart props for the scene, and deservedly so, but let’s all give Alfre Woodard some credit as well - she’s right there with him in the acting department. She’s phenomenal through this film and it’s pretty amazing Star Trek got her and James Cromwell together here.

[@PMRoanhouse]

fully agree Alfre Woodard is a queen 👑

[@toonrog9957]

@@PMRoanhouse .....TRUE that !!!!!

[@kimothy1701]

Jamie Cromwell, amazing character actor and not his first outing on Star Trek either, 2 or 3 episodes of next gen, then revisiting Cochrane in “Enterprise”.

[@Foxtrop13]

i would have prefered Sisko

[@Dre_Key]

She made Picard lose his temper. Not a feat accomplished by many

[@sycoraxrock]

“You broke your little ships” is one of the most underrated great lines in ST canon

[@Dunskaroo]

I love this line too great example of how small humanizing gesture can bring someone back from losing their grip on reality

[@DanielAppleton-lr9eq]

The model he broke was the Enterprise - D, too. Significant ?

[@FenrirEX]

@@DanielAppleton-lr9eqLost the D. Lost the Stargazer. And now he’s forced to give up the E.

[@DanielAppleton-lr9eq]

@@FenrirEX Bingo. He could've lost the 1701 - E. A lesser captain, maybe. But Jean - Luc ? Naaah. He knew the Borg *TOO WELL* methinks.

[@FenrirEX]

@@DanielAppleton-lr9eq The scene is SO much deeper than Picard having revenge issues. Boiling it down like that misses the decade+ pathos that had been built up with this character.

[@MrAudienceMember2662015]

She deserved an award for her work.

[@leonkernan]

I assume you meant the gold Enterprise-D model?

[@PMRoanhouse]

@@leonkernan No he meant Alfre Woodard who is a fantastic actress.

[@eamonndeane587]

@@PMRoanhouse At the very least she deserves an Honorary Award from the Oscars.

[@genesis6d7]

she should have the credit for saving humanity and also for helping Z Cochrane invent humanity's warp drive

[@lamueldagon7618]

​@@leonkernanSilly, lol

[@graceskerp]

"Captain Ahab has to go hunt his whale!" That had to be a Kirk vs Khan flashback. Picard had to know that legendary story about obsessive vengeance.

[@mkaplan1383]

You forgot Commodore Matt Decker hellbent on destroying the doomsday weapon due to the emotional responsibility he felt for losing his entire crew and ship.

[@Dimensional42]

In an interesting twist Patrick Stewart later played Ahab in the '98 film Moby Dick.

[@johnshafer7214]

I think it was in 1996 too.

[@kulkam4848]

In an interesting twist Alfrey Woodard later played the main heroine yesterday when you locked yourself in the washroom for 15 minutes

[@satireisnotdead5804]

Or it was Captain Picard re-enacting it on the holo-deck

[@andrewv5748]

@@satireisnotdead5804 I'd prefer Picard re-enacting Singing in the Rain, or doing an episode of Sesame Street.

[@satireisnotdead5804]

@@andrewv5748 Picard does all the spicy scenes from Game of Thrones XD

[@Cyberium]

Every leader needs someone who could tell the painful truth. In medieval time it'd be the jester, whom the Lord cannot kill. Here we have Lilly an outsider.

[@PMRoanhouse]

"Only the court jester can tell a king to their face they are a fool and not lose their head. That same jester can also cut off the head of a king without even raising an axe.", is something my mother would tell me growing up. But Lilly is not the court jester she is the woman out of time who is able to show Picard that no matter how evolved and refined he thinks they are in the 24th century, humans still fall to the same emotional and violent ends. She is a scientists and engineer as well so she understand him in this place and she is respected because of her place in history. But she has a perspective as the outsider though and as well as seeing humanity at a time that many in the federation haven't experience unless you were the late Tasha Yar living on a collapsed dystopian hellscape of a colony. But for Picard he hasn't had that kind of experience, the kind where someone could kill you at the drop of a hat just for your shoes. Lilly has and Picard knows this so it's why it hits him harder. It's like being judged by someone who is still "good" even after going though all that hell, and he knows it.

[@leesulin1465]

@@PMRoanhouse thats why before we react to the emotional drama of others it is wise to put ourselves in their shoes and understand for everyone has different experiences and circumstances

[@SamuelBlack84]

@@leesulin1465 Unfortunately, in the real world that philosophy gets you nowhere. Some in the raire just want to hurt others for the sheer thrill of it

[@yvettemarshallTWN]

@@PMRoanhouse When you have a legacy of others trying to genocide you, you gain a unique perspective on the human soul. Part of our survival to reveal and express that experience to the world, makes you default carerer for homicidal suicidal retches! Sometimes it sucks to have the life choked out of you for 9 minutes and 46 seconds to accomplish it. 🙏🏽😒😣😔😇

[@alexhodson6342]

Yes, the man who can hit the king.

[@JasonL77]

My favorite Star Trek movie. What’s also funny is that a few years after this, Patrick Stewart starred as Captain Ahab in a Moby Dick miniseries in USA Network.

[@Fletchman1313]

This was his audition tape...

[@Robert_Douglass]

I thought this was his inspiration for playing Ahab to begin with.

[@ilikecars4966]

maybe picard was on the holodeck that day

[@sb-tw8su]

This one and voyage home are my favorites

[@theman2017inc]

And that tv remake featured Gregory Peck, the original Ahab from John Houston’s great film.

[@michaelkylee601]

You know ive never seen Picard react like that to anyone.. she really got through to him

[@PMRoanhouse]

Daniel Appleton Picard's character is in controlled rage, its a seething anger from being a victim of what was basically a rape and forced cult membership, he doesn't lash out at people with physical violence, but when hurt his words would be like daggers that would cut deeper than any blade. His PTSD from that is what is fueling this but it because part of him as he even says he hears their siren like song, imagine being a victim of a horrible violation and then getting confused feelings of missing it at the same time. Like Stockholm syndrome. when he sees a borg he doesn't see a person, go the episode "I, Borg" from the TnG series Stewart starts sowing the seeds of that in his performance in that episode where they find the crashed borg shuttle with The borg drone who eventually becomes Hugh

[@PMRoanhouse]

@Daniel Appleton PTSD takes time. Its nuanced his reactions are building. I have PTSD from my own trauma. You have to imagine its the culmination of years of your brains subconscious conditioning to avoid pain. And unlike with I Borg, a single borg. First Contact was a situation where Picard could lose not just a single ship but all of humanity. The pressure, the personal pain of his ship being taken floor by floor, his crew being assimilated. The way he just shoots an officer he know they can't stop the assimilation with no emotion, no reaction. He just does, because as he says, do it, you will be doing them a favor. This is how humans react. You have to see PTSD as a build up. Its not sudden. Its not right after. Is a unexploded bomb waiting to be unearthed when building a mall. There are cases where soldiers who come back from war won't have any signs of trauma for years after coming home. But then one day. the right tumbler combination of sensory stimulation, the stray thought that trigger it, will cause them to have a dissociative state, panic attack, mood swing, delusion ... "Shell Shock" or "Soldier's Heart" moment. And its worse when your society forces Stoicism on you. You can't talk about your emotions you can't talk about it hurting you. You can't verbalize it with out ridicule. And if you remember while in the 24th century those things are not an issue anymore, picard was always a very guarded and aloof at times person. He was always very guarded and kept his card of his emotions, besides annoyance (Double facepalm) to himself. Because last time he allowed his emotions to get the better of him in public ... He got a knife to the heart.

[@tech83studio38]

@Daniel Appleton he's not you pay attention to his character .

[@ogdocvato]

michael kylee As you know so well: In ST-TNG, only Guinan, but not Troi, had that kind of influence on the Good Captain!

[@bensisko4651]

I love Picard's character, very well developed. His anger and rage, but also his humility (traits that make up a good Captain, ala "The Enemy Within") show here. The rage and determination are still there, but now thanks to Lily and him listening to her, it's tempered, controlled, and properly directed in the right way. And that smile shows at 4:06 isn't just amusement that chastened him without even reading the book she's referring to, but that's he's thankful to Lily for setting him straight.

[@josephthering6035]

What a finely crafted and portrayed scene. These two had amazing on-screen chemistry. It just doesn't feel like they are acting.

[@PMRoanhouse]

That is what the magic of good acting is. Both of them are top of their game performers.

[@cesarmaupome]

She is a marvelous woman. I'm in love her 😍😍😍

[@thomasvanhorne4796]

It's like a war. They were going at it. Two seasoned actors. The director just, got out of the way! wow. Never seen two actors more intense or in control, or in sych.

[@yvettemarshallTWN]

@@PMRoanhouse Her eyes, huge doe eyes...

[@yvettemarshallTWN]

@@cesarmaupome She only just met him but both know they are one another’s match. Kindred across time and space. Had each other’s back when the danger was real and ever present. Ride or die (literally!). Also, so , so smooth on the dance 💃🏽 floor. 💞

[@Deerych]

She spoke that piercing truth. Truth made Capt Picard turn up! lol. Amazing scene!

[@PMRoanhouse]

damn right

[@ficialintelligence1869]

Alfre Woodard is _phenomenal_ in this scene. Patrick Stewart has had _years_ of developing the Jean-Luc Picard character. (And yes, he is always able to pull more out of the character.) But Alfre had only this movie to get her character on par with Picard's character. This scene leaves me spellbound every single time.

[@Joseph-uo3mx]

She is a tremendous actor

[@MrJuanito931228]

@@Joseph-uo3mx Not many people know this...But she voiced a Disney character. A Lemur called Pilo from the forgotten Disney classic Dinosaur.

[@DanielAppleton-lr9eq]

@@Joseph-uo3mx She's tremendously, *criminally underrated* .

[@liversuccess1420]

Overall I was disappointed with the TNG movies, but this scene was an exception. It's one of the best moments in all of TNG and really continues a PIcard arc that began in Best of Both Worlds and Family, but was never quite complete. And yes, Woodard easily earned her place as one of TNG's best guest stars.

[@DanielAppleton-lr9eq]

@@liversuccess1420Sometimes you find an oyster with a pearl in it, sometimes the oyster finds you. Or something like that.....

[@OGSontar]

Captain Picard out of control is a terrifying thing to behold. Not someone you want to make that mad. If I were the Borg, I'd run.

[@PMRoanhouse]

Sontar its like the first time you see your dad cry but far more terrifying turning to pitty and sadness because you know it comes from so much pain and trauma

[@FoenyxFeather]

@@PMRoanhouse God damnit, now I have memories... and feelings.

[@mistermonologue2442]

@@PMRoanhouse God damnit you

[@PMRoanhouse]

@@mistermonologue2442 sorry no gods can damn me when i speak nothing but truth and honest compassion to give me empathy to a scene.

[@Yabuturtle]

I don't know why so many people thought he was acting out of character. It's called "character development". Did people really expect him to act exactly the same after his experience with the borg?

[@thetenthplanet_]

Sorry, I know this is 10 months late but still. From what I understand a lot of people refer to the whole Hugh Borg story as a reason why this is out of character. I kind of understood the argument at first but then I thought of something. Just because Picard made peace with helping individual drones in a controlled environment, doesn't mean the hate is fully gone. He was abducted, assimilated, violated in a most obscene way and forced to kill fellow Starfleet members. One good Borg doesn't change that. So being faced with a situation where it's his ship and crew being subjected to the nightmare that is the Borg, the fact it's the Borg Queen that made him Locutus to begin with, and the fact they took Data, his anger as well as all of these emotions and fears are returning 10x stronger.

[@koalabrownie]

@@thetenthplanet_ The problem with fans is that when they see a character has made a choice in one direction they think that the character is incapable of going the other way. But real life doesn't work that way, people repeat negative emotions or choices even after taking a positive approach. That and- you'd think seeing thousands of people die and the potential of the entire earth assimilated might be a triggering for picard.

[@DanielAppleton-lr9eq]

@@koalabrownie The TNG series rarely addressed that. There was Picard's fight with his brother Robert, but that was pretty much it.

[@koalabrownie]

@@DanielAppleton-lr9eq Yeah- and that was one of the few episodes where people saw Picard was truly human. Whereas in TOS there are numerous episodes where Kirk privately questions his own value.

[@amvlabs5339]

fans are fucking retarded

[@OneEyedKeys]

Picard was right in the end. He did not sacrifice the Enterprise, and he won. Ahab's quest was about revenge against God. Picard's quest was about 'saving' something, and in defense of something true and solid. That is the difference.

[@PMRoanhouse]

Selfishness and revenge is not the driving for of the federation but the celebration of universality through shared struggles in humanity which Data represents the innocence of that humanity or wanting to become it. Its why that is a worthy cause to protect and save for selflessness and celebration of diversity of life.

[@ryanf4106]

When you can portray trauma so well it's believeable.

[@SaraMorgan-ym6ue]

that is true acting right there when people like you and me believe him from his acting that is proof of great acting right there

[@DarkMachineNation]

Probably the most pivotal scene in the movie. Well done.

[@PMRoanhouse]

Dark Machine Nation concur

[@Swiffland25]

It is,yes!

[@PCCphoenix]

Definitely.

[@shiningarmor2838]

Lilly managed to get to Picard through one of the only things he would ever respond to: literature.

[@Poptoogi]

This is honestly one of the best acted scenes I've ever seen in ANY movie, fictional or not! The emotion by both actors is so amazing! I've watched this so many times over the years and still gives me chills when I see it! So good!!!!!

[@PMRoanhouse]

i know, right?!?!

[@noddy508]

Did anybody else pick up on the point in this scene that it was the Enterprise `D` that was the most badly damaged model out of that display??

[@PMRoanhouse]

you broke your little ship

[@CarnorJast1138]

I saw that the first time in the theaters back when I saw it in 1996. I am a HUGE Enterprise D fan, and the mere fact that it was the D that was broken by Picard's rage was enough to get me choked up. I still do. To this day I can NEVER watch the destruction of the Enterprise D in Generations. In fact, I haven't watched that movie in 20 years. I so love the D and to have it wasted like that simply because it was a "money deal" to get another movie for the TNG crew never sat well with me. I despise the E. It's crappy looking and is a knock off of the Intrepid Class Voyager. The D was gorgeous, and should have been in First Contact and beyond! Such an incredible ship!

[@apolloe23]

@@CarnorJast1138 same here... that enterprise d scene in generations broke my heart

[@PMRoanhouse]

@@apolloe23 so painful they had to do it twice!

[@nigelmurphy6761]

Yep caught that. Nice reference.

[@1garysan]

Such a powerful scene! Amazing to see what two fantastic actors can bring out of each other. Alfre Woodard was such a great choice for this part!

[@PMRoanhouse]

Agreed

[@ChronoXShadow]

Couldn't agree more... but no one should talk to their captain like that lol

[@friendcomputer2293]

@@ChronoXShadow That's what makes the scene work so well. She's not a member of his crew.

[@JemHadar422]

This was truly great scene. Remember Lilly is from a time when the planet Earth is recovering from a massive war. She was a tune to human nature for survival. She recognized that Picard was revenge streak and called him out.

[@justanotherlikeyou]

Easily the best TNG movie, and probably the single best scene in it

[@k2datrack]

I'm sorry but this has to be one of the best scenes in Star Trek history

[@briankerr2102]

Agreed- right below the Spock death scene in The Wrath of Khan.

[@r0bw00d]

Why are you sorry?

[@jamezkpal2361]

No need to apologize. It is the scene that keeps hope alive.

[@bashojanggoon2167]

I hate that she “never read it.” I wish they didn’t make such a concerted effort to make her simple or uneducated

[@r0bw00d]

@@bashojanggoon2167 What are you talking about? Lots of people have never read it. The problem with the scene is Picard explaining the story to her because everyone already knows what it is.

[@Angyali]

The moment I especially liked, is when Lily said, she never read Moby Dick, and Picard had a slow smile. She was much closer to the time that book was written, so the man of the future telling the story to a woman from the "past" is a bit ironic.

[@BrotherDerrick3X]

Moby Dick was written in 1851. Lily was born almost 200 years later.

[@Angyali]

@@BrotherDerrick3X But not 500 years later, like Picard!

[@n0wheregrrl]

That, and also the fact that even if she "never actually read it," her comparison of him with Ahab was still 100 percent spot-on. Shows how deeply the story entered public consciousness.

[@TheWPhilosopher]

@@n0wheregrrl exactly this. I think his smile was that despite not reading it she knew it's vital lesson. As he said. In the end his desire for vengeance destroyed Ahab and his crew. Picard would make the same mistake trying to destroy the pale Borg as he was. He needed to change tack. Let calmer rational thought remind him the ship was already in danger of being lost and after all what is a ship but a vessel to safety navigate people through Time, space, water? The most important portion is still the crew. They ones left can still be saved.

[@tracey5324]

I had always assumed that was her trying to entice him to tell her about it. Picard is a storyteller at heart and can't resist sharing what he knows.

[@patl4416]

One of the great acting scenes in Star Trek history. These two create one of the most powerful scenes that I have ever seen

[@jakeizlove]

For me, it was "There are 4 lights". He revealed a proud captor as a scared, starving, and beaten, child.

[@antonioernesto7892]

"Jean-Luc blow up the damn ship! "

[@PMRoanhouse]

"NO! NO! NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"

[@GoddyofWar]

"And he piled upon the whale's white hump, the sum of all the rage and hate felt by his whole race. If his chest had been a cannon, he would have fired his heart upon it."

[@PaperbackWizard]

Patrick Stewart played Ahab in a TV movie adaptation. It was perfect.

[@strangelee4400]

They must've changed it from 'Mortar' to 'Cannon'.

[@mkaplan1383]

In the actual novel by Herman Melville is the following: "He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it."

[@Nurgles_Rot_]

@@mkaplan1383 true. I think they did the swap from mortar to cannon to less confuse most people. The common person may not know what a mortar is, but 90+% would know what a cannon is.

[@jasonericson]

To this day I still believe had this been in some other genre of film-making, Alfre Woodard would've received an Oscar nomination at the very least. Just this scene of two master actors going at it is incredible. Unlike most takes I don't think Moby Dick is about revenge, but rather obsession. Maybe a fine line, but I think it adds a dimension to Picard that Lily highlights when she tells him he broke his little ship.

[@PMRoanhouse]

small note, revenge is considered an obsession to many. But I think you are 100% correct on all of this.

[@charliecooke6867]

"You broke your little ships" One of my favourite lines in the franchise

[@hpa2005]

What always gets me with this scene is that it isn't Lilly screaming and getting in Picard's face that snaps him out of it, its when she calmly but firmly says "See ya around Ahab" and walks out thinking she failed.

[@oldtwinsna8347]

Special edition release will have a scene recreated where Picard says to himself, "I'm Ahab? Then I am Ahab!" He walks down to the holodeck to play out Ahab and we the viewers get patched into Stewart's performance in Moby Dick as Ahab.

[@thebeardedseeker5633]

i laugh every time when she says, "You broke your little ships."

[@PMRoanhouse]

Me too, but in a kind of you need to laugh to clear the heaviness of the scene

[@VinzKlortho]

Ironic too that she picks up the Enterprise-D which was destroyed or “broken” LOL

[@alanparsonsfan]

The desire for revenge is absolutely there, but Lilly's still missing an important part of it. He simply can't let what happened to him happen to all mankind. He's fighting to save civilization and the billions of lives from that moment forward. And that's what he's aware of at the conscious level. The revenge part is buried deeper, and she does bring that part out. But, again, he's fighting for the souls of billions and the Lilly character may not fully understand how very much is at stake here. That said, Alfre and Patrick are world class here. Thank you, PMR, for capturing this.

[@overtokyo13]

Except blowing up the ship kills the Borg and undoubtedly saves mankind and first contact.

[@ReverendSyn]

@@overtokyo13 *But landing on Earth will irrevocably change Earth's history. No matter how hard they try to stay out of history's way even the teensiest, tiniest thing can have a profound effect on the progression of history. Did Back to the Future and The Butterfly Effect teach us NOTHING?* *Destroying the Enterprise can in no way be considered an option.*

[@lborg960]

"The line must be drawn here" "I will make them pay for what they've done". Great lines said by a great actor.

[@palmeiralviverde]

I love how Patrick moves his feet to match the "and we fall back" moments. This creates such a rhytm to the scene that makes the "this far, no further" bit much, much more powerful.

[@DanielSan1776]

I never noticed how he hit the Enterprise D He lost that ship to the Klingons, but it mustve reminded him that he lose Her under his command. Good writing. Whole movie is great.

[@chriswilson3126]

"Captain Ahab has to go hunt his whale!" is one of the best lines in all ST.

[@oldtwinsna8347]

More so fitting is how Patrick Stewart actually played Ahab later. Almost want to see an edited version of this with Picard saying, "Damn you!! I WAS Ahab in another life!"

[@gregbillings]

This scene is gold. It's like it was written for fans. They are both fantastic actors

[@Juidodin]

4:00 - only the truly great books are having an influence without even been read :D

[@Varrik159]

Everything about this scene is sublime, but Lily's "You broke your little ships" line is so particularly clever. It almost seems a bit silly at first, but it's exactly right to bring Picard back down to reality after his tirade, and then the line "Seeya round, Ahab" completely breaks him. If she'd just said the Ahab line, he would have been too immersed in his self-righteousness for it to have worked.

[@Drone0]

The best "No" in star trek universe

[@PCCphoenix]

2:12 NO! NOOOOOO!!! > *SMAAAASH!*

[@Constitution1789]

She really makes this scene come alive. I love her angst, vocal dynamics, facial expressions, physical softness, brutish glare, and so on. 🤣👍👌

[@mrz80]

"See you around, Ahab..."

[@janvirtanen6199]

Such an awesome scene. And the details. When Picard smashes the glass, you can see the Enterprise D fall to the side... Awesome

[@cylon74]

DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU BUT THIS SOME OSCAR WORTHY ASS ACTING AND 2 GREAT ACTORS IN ONE SCENE...PERFECTION.....

[@PMRoanhouse]

Yes ... I'm sad it didn't get it. At the time the Oscars was very anti sci-fi

[@sithlord115]

Patrick Stewart is probably one of the greatest actors of all time paired him with Alfre Woodard wow that's a dynamic combination but we cork use that same line in DS9 I nerded out and got goosebumps

[@n10cities]

This is my most favorite scene in all of Star Trek. I don't think anyone else ever got in Picard's face like Lily did. I love it when she says "Bull Shit!"

[@timherold6347]

The fact that that weapon looks like a futuristic whaler's harpoon is just *chef's kiss*

[@JamesPoremba]

I grew up with this film, seeing it in theaters when I was 10. It is still one of my favourite films to rewatch, and everytime this scene holds my attention completely. Two fantastic performers, great writing, wonderful direction, camera work and Jerry Goldsmith's score make this scene one of best in the franchise. I work as a camera operator on series and features and there is some really wonderful framing here. On paper you have a pretty standard scene, two actors in a room. But the way they move into close up's during the first confrontation, then pull back to a wider shot of Picard @1:59, framing both to the far right - you are pulling the audience back with the camera - and then @2:07 moving back into close up's, with the camera operator adding some subtle energy to their frames, moving the camera with the actor's movements on both Lilly and Picards shot's (2:07-2:12) - it adds an extra punch to those lines, and gives the audience a shock (even if they don't realize it), really a thing of beauty.

[@PMRoanhouse]

I see, a fellow filmmaker. Excellent technical scene dissection. I agree the personal conflict opens to a large explosion from Picard. Its closed almost claustrophobic from Picard's framing as his arms are tight in fixing / modifying the phaser rifle. Lilly is relaxed if hesitation in her performance and framing and the. her roar of admonition to his apparent callousness is which from her interactions with the crew for the short time really gives her this read and you can sense it in every interaction the way they frame her reactions in this film. She is the filmed as the perfect mirror as well as outside observer who sees at its core humanity isn't much different from her time. Its just more comfy. And Picard is angered to think its that simple i think in this scene. The way they open up the shot after the crash of the glass case would almost be like snow or rain falling and seeing a pull out of a someone who survived a ship wreck looking up to sky finding peace in the aftermath of chaos. Finding serenity from emotional trauma and stillness the framing helps show as he looks to the stars out the window.

[@SGLear]

This scene has aged so well and really gets paid off in Picard the series, when we see not only what his obsessive drive to achieve his aims has done to those around him over the years, but also we see that ruthless potential to become a tyrant plays out in the alternate timeline. An absolutely powerful scene and one of the best in the history of Star Trek. Major props to both Stewart and Woodard.

[@Naccene]

Admiral Satie - Tell me Captain, have you recovered from your time with the Borg?"

[@johnatkin8280]

Yes.... until he heard the voices in his head again.

[@MikinessAnalog]

When someone from the 21st century has to show someone from the 24th century just how blinded they are by rage & revenge.

[@PMRoanhouse]

and trauma, don't forget he is illogical because he is suffering from PTSD as well

[@MikinessAnalog]

@@PMRoanhouse True, also you would think by the 2370s humanity would at least be able to recognize that in someone, even if they still didn't have a cure.

[@yeahbutontheotherhand]

Oh my god. Now I know why Randy in South Park did scream NO and smashed is head into the glas

[@jaypee9575]

Haha! Yeah a good deal of early South Park was Star Trek references and jokes.

[@noahheide6316]

“They don’t understand the Borg as I do. No one does.” Umm... 7 of 9?

[@PMRoanhouse]

she wasn't a character yet when this movie came out.

[@macgyveratlarge2133]

She grew up Borg. She has no true understanding, save that it was all she knew. Humans do not like change, and until Voyager came along, she has nothing to "fear" that would change her life. In a sense, she rebelled from the freedom at first, just as strongly as Picard does against being assimilated. However, Picards also has the added burden that if he fails, the entire human race will be assimilated before they even make first contact.

[@aleksandarmarkovic221]

And also even if seven was on Voyager at this point, it’s not like Picard would have any idea who she is

[@blademe]

To put that to rest; 7 of 9 was still with Voyager lost in the Delta Quadrant. Also the Federation was in the middle of the Dominion War so they did not know of 7 of 9 as of yet hence why he made that statement as Picard and crew were not aware of 7.

[@blademe]

@@tomgl6684 that can be argued yes; but she would of been a drone when he was assimilated, not yet freed and such a prominent figuere for the Borg and Voyager

[@ppipowerclass]

The acting, dialogue, all of this scene were absolutely perfect.

[@marcusscott5363]

"The line must be drawn HEAHH!"

[@4500Richie]

“This Far!”

[@BreckThePanther]

This is the best acting in just about any Star Trek. Starting when she walks up and says "I get it they hurt you and you want to hurt them back."

[@bengalsfanaz]

This is the best acting scene I have ever seen. The emotion, the setting and the diol ague. It's a shame this movie didn't get more recognition.

[@edsmale]

One of my favorite Picard speeches.

[@avidreader70]

Two great actors, one epic scene. I saw this in the cinema with my mum, brothers and sister when I was nine and I still get the chills.

[@PMRoanhouse]

same same fam

[@nashshaffer6235]

This is Picard’s therapy session

[@georgecooke2271]

Great movie, and this is one of the top scenes from it. Brilliant acting by both. Thanks for the upload!

[@PMRoanhouse]

Couldn't agree more!

[@marcychan168]

@@PMRoanhouse 👍👍👍me too!

[@gregorytaylor862]

Patrick Stewart is such an incredible actor. The way he channels emotion and his ability to make his characters so real is absolutely outstanding.

[@edwardsawtell5712]

Love this scene! Thanks for posting!

[@Higgy_ZA]

I love his passion - you can feel the emotion overflowing in his speech.

[@derekhiemforth]

For my money, this is the best scene from any series, any movie, any franchise, any iteration of Star Trek.

[@whatsittoya4590]

This is my favorite sence better than Khan

[@InfernosReaper]

Outside their respective contexts, this scene is the stronger of the 2. Inside those, they are equals. Consequently, that does in fact make this the overall better scene.

[@PMRoanhouse]

@infernosReaper i think first contact as a Moby Dick nested metaphor is far more real and compelling. Kahn wanting revenge for being allowed to live with people on a deserted planet felt so immature and cartoonish. First contact was layered in in ways with a far better a plot, b plot, and c plot with exploration of picard's PTSD, history of human kind that led us to star fleet, and also just the evolution of Data and his humanity. its why i rank first contact as my favorite and best star trek film to date.

[@Furzkampfbomber]

@@PMRoanhouse Kahns stubbornness made more sense in the context of the 'Enterprise' series, which by the way I still love dearly, despite all the flak it got. Ironically it almost seemed to be a genetic flaw of this breed of enhanced humans, to not being able to back down, to live to fight another day. It's my way or no way. But that of course only helps in context of the whole lore and from a nowadays perspective. And even with that in mind, I think First Contact still did it better.

[@Johnny-rx4hs]

@Daniel Appleton There was also the scenes in the DS9 pilot between him and Benjamin Sisko.

[@Me11oCarm]

I WANT this scene to work, but I just don't "believe" his emotion. His tantrum is terribly delivered, which is shocking for Sir Pat. His revenge should have been realized, known to himself, planned, his flaw, an uncomfortable struggle road to hell, but undeniable. Only until his sense of morality is truly challenged and he has to make the choice to avenge himself or save his soul does he reconcile... but to quietly do it with a quote from MD? C'mon guys.

[@emperorpalpatine783]

One of the most powerful scenes in the whole of star trek

[@TakaComics]

The range that Patrick Stewart goes through in this scene is incredible. What really makes me impressed is that from the moment he breaks the glass, you can see Picard’s regret coming through. When he says “I will make them pay for what they’ve done!” you can see his face change. But he’s still caught up in his pain. He knows the right answer but his emotions won’t let him act on it. Lily’s line didn’t immediately change his outlook, but pushed him back into a sense of clarity. And there are few people who can show that kind of emotional depth without being too dramatic like Stewart does here.

[@Simgor2]

This scene makes me think of how I might have PTSD, like Picard I've had built up anger and depression for awhile over some major trauma and it finally came out recently.

[@samscoffy]

Hang in there bud

[@aliren6118]

His vengeance destroyed him and his ship, and he didn't know when to quit. A lesson Picard had to learn so he could destroy his ship.

[@PMRoanhouse]

His ship, his life, and his crew. Picard had to learn he had to destroy his ship to save his crew and humanity.

[@aysasaga1]

This is one of the TOP 5 scenes in any Star Trek movie! Alfre Woodard is amazing!

[@condorsouthernlands4730]

I was probably like four years old when I first saw this scene. Seeing a totally reserved, gentle man smashing his display case like that really got to me.

[@tech83studio38]

I would love to see Alfre Woodard as a Starfleet Captain.

[@PMRoanhouse]

Tech 83 Studio yes!!!!

[@dinochickennuggies71]

She would make a good first officer too lol

[@mybocks3]

@@dinochickennuggies71 Imagine having to argue with _her_ about every major decision? Having her quoting a bunch of books she's never read.

[@PMRoanhouse]

does it matter? she gets the point of them then she wins the argument ;)

[@ficialintelligence1869]

All props to Kate Mulgrew, but Alfre should've been Janeway.

[@TalentSpotter83]

Love this scene, Patrick Stewart and especially Alfre Woodard are superb. It's a great reversal from their first scene together where she's frightened and confused before he gently persuades her to give him the phaser. Here she's the 'teacher' and sees right through him. She reminds him he's still human and not above vengeance nor condemning his crew to death just like Ahab.

[@DavidJohnsonFromSeattle]

"WHERE WAS YOUR EVOLVED SENSIBILITY THEN?!" so good...

[@matthewJ142]

Funny that he ends up playing Ahab in the Moby Dick Movie

[@PMRoanhouse]

matthewJ142 i saw him play it on stage as well. GOAT Ahab!

[@leisureenjoyer1986]

Quark's send-up of this in DS9 is sublime.

[@septimiusthedestroyer7394]

I know right

[@tempsitch5632]

KZbin just randomly recommended this vid and I was like, "I know that name !" -Heyseuss

[@BladeV8]

I don't know if it was intentional or not in the framing by JF for this, but there's some really clever subtle stuff going on with the ships behind when he's angry in this scene. IE: He's not just destroying a collection of the ships that have the name Enterprise (the lineage of which he is the present captain and custodian for) but also more specifically, he destroys the Enterprise-D, the ship he and the viewers hold dear and which was the nest of him being as level headed and honourable as his predecessors as Captain. He's not just betraying the values expected of him by tradition by acting irrationally, but betraying the values he himself set down when he took over as Captain at the start of TNG.

[@BladeV8]

Equally it's a shame so much of the big screen TNG films feel so out of step with the characters when you see scenes like this. I get that they had to do things differently from the TV show, but so much of the rest of the films feel out of step with the characters, whereas this is the one scene that actually doesn't.

[@PMRoanhouse]

An excellent analysis, very few people ever catch that level of detail. I am very impressed. Message me i have a surprise edit to this scene I can’t post because copyright strikes but i think you wil love the meta context it offers with mashing it up with real world clips and ghostbusters for a political sad satire and philosophical message that if you are a die hard star trek fan will go ohhhh shit over

[@gregtube63]

I re-watch this scene and I think...it does not get much better than this. And then I look at what Star Trek has become now, and I feel gratitude...at least I was there for when it was at its peak, enven if now it is but a pale shadow of what it once was...

[@martinm.1967]

Picard for sure has a great memory, citing Moby Dick 1:1...

[@rooramblingon895]

What an amazing actor Alfre is, and what a superb character Lilly is - a real match for Patrick and Picard. She deserved a huge career but like so many got lost. I saw her in Hill Street Blues and in Ted Danson's Gulliver's Travels. She was brilliant then too.

[@loon0493]

She has had a huge career. Why do you think she was picked for the role?

[@romulusnr]

Picard: We don't have revenge Also Picard: I will make them pay!

[@samscoffy]

Devolved sensibility

[@jaywilson4520]

Man, this scene never gets old. It's a pair of tour de force performances, great writing, and great direction.

[@509Gman]

I’ll have you recall that in that episode of TNG when Picard was basically forced to take a vacation on Ryza (however it was spelled), he was reading “Moby Dick”.

[@PhillipLemmon]

The NO...... NO!! and..... THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS! GREAT ACTING!

[@BrainNeedsFood]

Great scene. It's a brilliant bit of attention to character in that it's a literary reference that finally gets through to Picard.

[@christophervanasse9911]

Brilliant scene. Her casually referencing the great American novel affected him immediately. It was exactly what he needed to hear and she didn’t even realize it. Outstanding acting from these two and one of the great moments in Star Trek.

[@alexhodson6342]

2:09 John Leuc, blow up the damn ship! Noooooooooooo!

[@invicta9415]

Best scene ever

[@MrCageCat]

One of the many reasons/scenes why this is my favourite Star Trek film.

[@rivaj]

One the best and hell... i am sure this is the most memorable five minutes in Trek, from the TOS pilot episode to the last Enterprise include, all the 10 movies.