Star Trek Retro Review: "Parallax" (VOY) | Bottle Episodes

[@frankandstein8618]

"A compelling series about a group of people with limited resources, in unfamiliar territory, forced to depend on each other for their survival" Sounds like the pitch for Gilligan's Island.

[@CAPSLOCKPUNDIT]

More like a reboot of Far Out Space Nuts, but good guess.

[@rmdodsonbills]

In fact, I remember at the time someone saying that if TOS was Wagon Train to the Stars, then DS9 was Gunsmoke in the Stars and then VOY was left to be Gilligan's Island to the Stars.

[@markfrancisco1730]

Battlestar Galactica largely did it right. Especially the second time (Final season losing the thread somewhat, unfortunately).

[@willmfrank]

​@@rmdodsonbillsDS9 was"The Rifleman" in space; Voyager was "Star Trek: Lost in Space"

[@guaposneeze]

Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale, of a galactic trip. That started from alpha quadrant, aboard this tiny ship. The mate was a mighty maquis man, the skipper's bun was sure. Two different crews in space that day, for a 75 year tour. a 75 year tour.

[@rmdodsonbills]

This episode also marks the beginning of the Doctor Dilemma, that is, is he a person or an app? Paraphrase of a key line: "If I'm going to be the Chief Medical Officer, you need to treat me like the Chief Medical Officer and include me in the staff meetings where you are currently making decisions without regard for the medical dimensions of the problem. I need to be in the room where it happens!" This thread runs through the whole tapestry of the series and is therefore an important bit that does survive the "oh well, let's just crank them out" ethic of later episodes.

[@robertpolityka8464]

One thing that I notice about the Janeway vs. Chakotay concerns about choosing a Chief Engineer, is basically a case of when do you apply seniority at a workplace and when do you "not apply" seniority. Janeway comes off as the ones with the greatest seniority gets the key positions on the ship. However, Chakotay points out, that except for his role as First Officer, all of the Marquis would sit at the bottom of the seniority ladder. The job of Chief Engineer shouldn't automatically go to the officer with the greatest seniority. Torres is the best Engineer on the ship, but she has a bit of a temper. We can help her, help herself in being a team leader..

[@gregoryshipley4637]

I think you hit the nail on the had as to why Voyager is so frustrating. I can't think of any other show that managed to get together all of the necessary pieces for epic greatness, and then consistently only pulled off kind of good I guess.

[@SavageGreywolf]

'kind of good' is wildly optimistic. I would go with 'generally passable (except for the Janeway and Paris mutate into lizards episode, the interminable Tom Paris We Have Flash Gordon At Home episodes, and any time Neelix is on screen)'

[@Tuning3434]

As I understood, Voyager was always intended to become a TNG light, fully episodic reset last minute. I am baffled why these early episodes even bothered setting up the premise in the first place, as obviously they weren't allowed to even come close to the TV history paths DS9 was able to take squeezing itself out of studio control. Voyager was anti-DS9, as DS9 was setting itself up as the anti-TNG.

[@renatocorvaro6924]

I actually quite liked Parallax the first time I saw it. It was probably the first science fiction I was exposed to that made me *really* think about time travel and the ways it can be wacky while still making sense. The idea of a reaction occurring before the action that triggered it was fascinating to me and I ended up doing a lot of reading on the subject because of this.

[@rmdodsonbills]

And then Janeway says "yeah, temporal mechanics are weird, best not to think too much about it." I am glad they raised the question, and also, Janeway's answer is very much the same answer the series has always gone with, she just makes it very explicit.

[@grumpus_hominidae]

I think a LOT of the people watching Star Trek back then became interested in science because of having watched Star Trek back then. It holds true for me, at least, though I never became a scientist... But still...

[@kaitlyn__L]

It’s certainly more rigorous about it than Doctor Who. Even though the rules change based on which exact phenomenon it is, they almost always make clear how the time threat works this time. Lots of Doctor Who is just wishy-washy about it, even in the most-beloved episodes. Even though both boil down to “just relax, it’s a fun storytelling device” at the end of the day. But I think it irks me because for example the way the TARDIS is supposed to work is just as, if not more, rigorous as the way warp drive works in Trek. Yet the effects on the universe are nowhere near as comprehensively laid-out.

[@TheSpanishInquisition87]

I feel like it's necessary to point out that, "the Spiderman" is fine as long as you include "amazing."

[@ghostporcupine]

How much I love Voyager and how much I love Steve are warring inside me, but I never can disagree that Voyager has... issues 😂

[@RossAllaire-wx4og]

Girl, same. It's my favorite Star Trek show and yet I have no defense against Steve's criticisms!

[@Psi105]

Or that Steve has issues. Sorry, i could resist.

[@vamp_bat_chomp]

Its not my favorite but I do like it, but I also agree with a lot of his points.

[@Donnagata1409]

@@Psi105 Beat me to it.

[@Amoechick]

I adore Voyager. The line in our house is that Voyager, as a series, has No Chill. Every episode is either awful or an absolute banger, with just about no in-between.

[@torenatkinson1986]

If I were writing an episode of Voyager today, I would make it about how the doctor starts giving bad medical advice due to some power drain on the ship systems. It would be a good analogy about how ChatGPT hallucinates facts.

[@carolinemcgovern4488]

Honestly, I think that's a neat idea and premise for an episode featuring the Doctor.

[@alexpurpose4722]

The character interactions are what hooked me. Janeway and Torres ' "Warp particles!" and their convo in the shuffle about the academy felt more realistic and naturally humorous than the other shows, in my opinion.

[@jasonaich8071]

The first season of Voyager was pretty friggin awesome! Separate crews forced to work together and the conflict that would naturally arise; limited resources on a relatively small ship; the feeling of isolation in completely unknown territory. The episode where the Vidiian kills Lt. Durst and then WEARS HIS FACE to try to impress B’Lana stands out - the show was still new and introducing crew members to that point, and Durst could have been this show’s Garak or O’Brien (an important reoccurring character that wasn’t in the main cast). The fact that they killed him in such a gruesome way signaled that no one was really safe and shocked teenage me at the time 😝 Heck, I think they even made Voyager seem smaller and more vulnerable than the mighty Enterprise D - it seems like the camera shakes around a lot more when an enemy fires on them, like this smaller vessel is getting violently thrown around, whereas the Enterprise D’s bulk would have absorbed the hit and barely vibrated from it. I still really like Voyager overall but it would have been wayyyyyyy better if they stuck to the first season’s vibe and formula!

[@rvdsmith]

Steve a suggestion.... a series of episodes where the ship or space station was taken by invaders.

[@vtmarik]

7:35 Tuvok starts explaining time loops and shortly afterward Paris gets a nosebleed and passes out. The episode cuts to the next day where everything is solved, creating fan theories for decades about how the whole show is all Tom's dream.

[@firefly4f4]

Ah, the start of Voyager's Magic Meeting Room trope, where the senior crew go into the titular room and come up with a technobabble solution to the problem of the week. BTW, if I recall correctly, the space thingy was called a black hole, and the crack is in the event horizon, and OMFSM I just gave myself a headache.

[@glamourweaver]

“Unfortunately instead of that show, the producers decided to make Star Trek Voyager” It’s ok, Ronald D Moore clearly took notes on that dropped premise.

[@KyuuTomoyaki]

I don't care what anyone says, Star Trek Voyager was and still is amazing. It will always be my favorite Star Trek series. Every Star Trek show has its wonky episodes, but those don't make the whole series bad.

[@Donnagata1409]

🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶

[@flynngames4703]

I know The Voyager... sorry Voyager is not everyone's favorite but for me I love it. It has a very family unit feel to me. It's fun and it also has the creepiest episode in all of Star Trek (The Thaw season 2 episode 23)

[@allanolley4874]

The bit about Tom getting confused by the cause and effect relationships in the anomaly stuck with me, including Janeway's assurance that that's just the way things are with temporal mechanics. As I recall this sort of plot twist (time travel shenanigans) gets reused in a much more time travel shenanigans way a few episodes later in the 1st season involving a planet's infrastructure blowing up?

[@WFierce]

Literally the next episode. Time and Again.

[@itsOasus]

I for one agree with Janeway about people who say "The Spiderman". So unnatural.

[@beard78748]

In my mind "The Spiderman" sucks the blood out of criminals after incapacitating them with his web. He is later killed by "The Spiderwoman" after having sex and have 200 babies. The people of Earth become the food stock for the new apex predator "The Spider People."

[@ncr_ranger96]

Spider-Man* The hyphen is important.

[@CAP198462]

For fans of the comedian Jimmy Carr that comment hits differently. 😉

[@mitchellforney6109]

Yeah, the only time it makes sense is when JJJ says it, because it highlights his stubbornness and ignorance.

[@kaitlyn__L]

Spoderm’n

[@Phos9]

The trajectory of voyager is a good metaphor for falling back into old self destructive habits

[@philippschwarz4539]

Chakotay: Maquis Union Representative "Captain Janeway, if you don't meet our demands. We'll go on strike."

[@justarandomgothamite5466]

Janeway: fine you're in the brig until you change your mind.

[@WFierce]

Robert Beltran's most difficult role.

[@st.anselmsfire3547]

When did Voyager fall apart? The first season was actually really good. They even had a great Neelix episode (Jetrel)! What happened to this show? Where did it go wrong?

[@buruzn09]

There’s a part of me that wishes I had not found your channel so I could have continued appreciating Voyager through the rose colored glasses I used to view it through. Then again, I’d rather have honest thoughts about the show, and I still like it for what it meant to me at the time. Besides, without this channel, I wouldn’t have given DS9 a second chance and come to appreciate it for how truly great and unique it is among Star Trek incarnations. I was too young to appreciate DS9 when it was running. Voyager… that older, more critical eye wasn’t necessary. In fact, it would have been a hindrance. I still like Voyager, even if I can see now that, with rare exceptions, it walked away from almost all of the promise it had, including most of the promise of its original premise. The Doctor and Seven were fun to follow and watch grow. And it was nice to see what happened to Nick Locarno after the Nova Squad disaster. I’m glad he got his life back on track and started a family.

[@IForgetYourName]

First. Also your love of voyager is always so refreshing. Im glad you know what your favorite series is, Steve.

[@superslammer]

You have mentioned bottle episodes a lot. I think that is why I liked voyager. There were a lot of them. I tend to like those a lot for some reason. I like voyager and my only problem with it is that it wasn't shot on film :)

[@LuisDiaz-fs8uh]

I have always wondered why some ships get the definite article and some don't.

[@waltererictaylor]

Of all the Trek episodes that relied on mindless technobabble.... This was the technobabbaliest.

[@Tuaron]

I don't remember this episode at all, even if I'm quite sure I saw it when it first premiered. Steve's recap had me particularly tickled today, and I do agree with most of the feeling surrounding the series. I look forward to next week, Shuttlepod One was a top tier Enterprise episode, if I recall right.

[@alanpennie]

Me too. It does seem like a pretty good episode (because of the character dynamics) even if the plot was a bit generic. In retrospect it's remarkable how similar to Seven early B'Elanna was.

[@JanetStarChild]

I hate to admit it, but I agree with you Steve on the disappointment of ST:Voyager. On that note, I'm curious of how you would re-write the series; like, a summary of each of the seven seasons.

[@patrickdodds7162]

I know a lot of people rag on the first two seasons of Voyager, which has always left me a little confused. Yes, there were some clunkers (hello, "Threshold" and "Tuvix"!), but honestly the show seemed more dramatically grounded. They did more to make use of their premise with episodes like "Eye of the Needle" and "Prime Factors". They were actually trying to forge their own identity rather than simply aping TNG with non-stop Borg references and appearances (hello, seasons 4-7!). We had the most creepy, formidable villains in the Vidiians (Trek's most underrated villains along with The Dominion). We had a fun reoccurring villain in Seska (played with relish by the great Martha Hackett). We got a great Q episode in "Death Wish" and probably the greatest love story in all of Trek with "Life Signs". They actually had good and thoughtful holodeck episodes like "Heroes and Demons" and "Projections". The character of Lon Suder (masterfully played by Brad Dourif) was more affecting and interesting a character in three episodes than four whole seasons of Seven of Nine. And speaking of which: NO BORG! YAY! I still treasure these two seasons and they are my go-to for Voyager of relative quality. A big part of this can be attributed to the late, great Micheal Piller who was the show runner for the first two seasons. (Steve, if you ever do Trek videos about awesome people behind the scenes of Trek: Mr. Piller deserves some hardcore love: he wrote the two-part classic, "The Best of Both Worlds" and the unfairly maligned Star Trek: Insurrection. In many ways he saved Modern Trek. Rest in Peace, Mr. Piller!)

[@andrewklang809]

I agree that the first two seasons of VOY, while very clunky, was trying to be its own thing, aside from rejecting the Starfleet/Marquis tension by the third episode, which hobbled the show and started its long, grim death march to formulaic safety. I disagree about "Tuvix", however. Yes, the decision made at the end of the episode (by the writers/producers) was evil and wrong, but it's still a compelling drama that makes good use of a one-and-DONE character. I can't help hearing Tuvix' pleas as the show's writers themselves begging the suits to let the show breathe, to be allowed to try new things, fix old mistakes (like Neelix) and break free of the Almighty Reset Button. Eventually, the show started to feel, using modern parlance, like it was being written by AI. But "Tuvix" did not go gently. It was VOY wanting to live, raging against the dying of the light.

[@renatocorvaro6924]

Wait, you think The Dominion is underrated? Fuck, I can't get away from people talking about how great The Dominion is as a villain and I always thought (and still do think) that they were really weakly written.

[@Archivist82]

Death Wish is one of my all time favourite Star Trek episodes.

[@thegreenmanofnorwich]

I tend to agree with you. It seemed to have rather more substance to it. Eventually, Voyager just shrugging everything off became a little bit dull. It seemed like there weren't really stakes a lot of the time.

[@Sykoze]

⁠@@renatocorvaro6924i have to agree with you on this one, mostly. The Dominion weren’t even one of the best villains on DS9, let alone Trek in general. The only exception is in the early, early stages of the Dominion War, when they were still in the process of infiltrating the various major powers of the Alpha Quadrant and starting to turn them against each other. That would have made for a way better story overall. Instead of yet more open warfare and space battles, the Dominion should have been played more like The Thing, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Headcount, The Faculty, Michael Crichton’s PREY, etc. Infiltrating and replacing people, slowly ramping up the paranoia as you trust fewer and fewer people to not be impostors. The discovery of the whole “changelings can’t bleed” thing should also have come later, and played a more central role in their defeat. Massive missed opportunity, the Dominion.

[@courtneylila8383]

As a VOY lover who confidently claims Janeway as her second favorite captain, your disdain for the show really makes these retro reviews *chef's kiss*

[@jacebales2951]

Apparently, the guy who played Carey was pissed off he didn't come back more often as a recurring character. He apparently was initially hired under the presumption he would be back a lot. I learned that from listening to an episode of the Delta Flyers recently lol. They were reviewing a DS9 episode but somehow Carey from Voyager got brought up and they mentioned the actor being pissed off. Steve: I was really, REALLY hoping to get a review of Voyager's episode Twisted from you during this bottle series. 😂😂 Please, please.

[@Rocket_Man232]

🔔 Steve: I thought that it would have been priceless (and a great marketing move for generating buzz) if ST:V, during its premiere episode near the beginning when they said "We've traveled 70,000 light years." + "We're on the other side of the galaxy." to end that segment, to immediately play 3rd season 'Lost In Space' music while simultaneously doing an LIS-type opening credits visual with the names & photos of the ST:V cast. It would be a 1-shot deal, never repeated nor referenced again (and after the immediately following commercial break [not necessarily but perhaps] the regular ST:V opening could be tacked on to the beginning of the next segment).

[@HairyDalek]

It was a rush to get the series to a point where it could be shown on syndication in any order without it losing too much. The much needed 45 minutes from problem to “all back to normal” rush. A serielised Voyager as you described would have been far more compelling, but it may not have been right for the business model.

[@edwardbeesley3680]

One element that this episode has, along with a number of episodes in VOY’s first two seasons, is a sense that the crew is bigger than just the recurring characters. We get Seska and the other Marquis, who are ready to take the ship, and we get Carey, a potentially good recurring foil for Torres. While it’s a shame that most of these characters were never used that well, or made particularly compelling (Lon Suder aside), it was another element that VOY could have stuck with to distinguish itself from TNG. There are no transfers on Voyager, and it’s supposed to be a relatively small crew. We should have had many recurring smaller characters that could have been fleshed out and used a few times a season. It would have made us give more of a hoot if they were then killed. It’s something that the show almost totally abandoned come season 3, and that’s a shame.

[@IvanDobski]

Chakotay's advocating for B'elanna and her being the best engineer he's ever known really stuck with me from this episode. I loved his "She could *teach* at the academy", it's prob his best bit of acting in the whole series. You really believe he cares for and is sticking up for his crew. It's a shame they decided to neuter his character so much as the series went on.

[@emperorg9910]

I think they dumb down Chakoyta because he was out shining Janeway.

[@KariIzumi1]

As much as I’ve rediscovered my love of Janeway and Chatokay in light of Prodigy season 2, they are the peak definition of that “She’s Barbie/Hes Just Ken” meme on VOY 😂

[@LDDivision]

of them, my friends, and I, have always described the speaking of techno Babel, and explaining as a metaphor thing; as “Star Trek-ing “

[@rossstewart9475]

I'm really looking forward to your future Voyager reviews, as I feel there's a good story to be had in the journey of you accepting that it wasn't nearly as bad as twenty five years less senior you recalls. Though still no argument: They absolutely did neglect and even flout the strong and appealling premise sold in advertising and the first episode's plot.

[@marisa1637]

Having watched through the all the star trek series multiple times, I am loving your episode summaries and pithy commentary. It's great for a change up and very fun :)

[@billcox6791]

That show you described at the end? Farscape. Farscape is what Voyager should’ve been.

[@RustyShock]

JANEWAY: But how do we make it show on our sensors? JANEWAY AND B'LANNA (in unison): WARP PARTICLES!!!

[@kevinkarmann1239]

I did like how “Paralax” continued the promise of Voyager. I have always felt the first season felt more even, more focused than the rest of series with episodes like this one, “Eye of the Beholder,” “Prime Factors” and “State of Flux.”

[@bjbear5202]

I never noticed how many staff meetings these people have.

[@KariIzumi1]

Boy do I have news about the US navy

[@guygrist4436]

I remember really liking this episode it’s very well constructed with a nice sequence of logical deductions and twists. Although I am a big fan of Voyager so maybe I’m just being kind the show that I grew up watching.

[@jamessatter7418]

I like when you say the second episode Kerry'd on tension from the pilot!

[@dracomusca]

Your writing keeps getting better, i laughed out loud so many times.

[@riversonthemoon]

This episode was previewed at a convention I went to just before Voyager was released so it’s kind of special to me because of that. One little quibble. The phantom Voyager at the start was a reflection from the future, so Janeway identifying the right Voyager at the end by reasoning the phantom Voyager is reflecting movements the true Voyager was doing 20 minutes prior seems backwards to me.

[@KelvinShadewing]

Any chance you could do a plot summary compilation? I just find them hilarious and wanna watch through them all.

[@StormsparkPegasus]

Yes, some amount of technobabble in any sci-fi show is almost an inevitabiilty. Some shows (like SG-1) try to keep the technobabble grounded in real science when possible, and they use it sparingly so it usually has some impact. Others (like Voyager) just make up stuff and use it constantly. It says something when you can replace the technobabble in this episode with stuff like "space thing" and it doesn't change the episode AT ALL.

[@kaitlyn__L]

Totally with you on being a medium episode unto itself but also a tantalising portent of what it could’ve been. (And simultaneously a preview of its worst vices, you can really feel which parts of the episode Michael Piller actually wrote versus parts Rick Berman told him to add-in.)

[@kaylavanbrocklin3122]

My theory about why they started saying “Voyager” instead of “the Voyager” is because Voyager became more of a “place” to them, rather than a ship taking them to a place, once they realized it would be their home for possibly their whole lives. I don’t know how I didn’t notice them referring to the ship in that way until you pointed it out though.

[@thamirivonjaahri6378]

Join crew of Voyager today for an amazing ride where you will get to see: - smartass chief engineer with very bad temper and even worse taste in men - even more so smartass captain with plot armor so thick not even borg queen is a match for her. Also has very bad taste in men. - boxer 1st officer undergoing secret off-screen lobotomy in order to be a more subservient breed. The only guy in crew who will eventually get to date the hottest chick on board without ending up in a sickbay afterwards - half of crew with only prior experience being anywhere from farmer to supply barge pilot that somehow know more about the ship they are on that those who actually studied the subject - AI that believes itself to be alive - lifetime supply of shuttles with rated resilience of a wet paper - a lot of technical gibberish rated "A+ hangover" - pilot with inferiority complex stuck in 20th century timewarp - a cardassian spy who for reasons beyond anyone's logic blows her cover up (how utterly uncharacteristic ) - if you are in ops/security division, gruesome painful death is almost guaranteed TBH after having almost emotional breakdown with DS9, Voyager honestly felt like having a heavily diluted tea after several year long coffee party. Still admittably it was at least average and more or less watchable with some quite good episodes, much unlike some later...erm...attempts? I guess...

[@alanpennie]

About 5% of episodes were compelling and memorable, 85% were watchable fluff, and the last 10% (Voyager's signature) were crazy stuff like Threshold.

[@BlownMacTruck]

God, can you imagine if they actually followed through with pro and anti Federation characters having to integrate together? The possibilities were numerous and deep. So many ways they could've challenged Federation principles and ideals as well as Maquis positions, juxtaposed righteous indignation and wrestled with morals and values, ane eventually ending up with a crew and ship that were markedly different from anything we had seen before. Having to integrate two very different cultures along with alien tech from the Delta Quadrant *just to survive* would've been absolutely fascinating. Instead we get the Brady Bunch all happy in space after a couple episodes. Just about as exciting and deep as well. Everyone more or less got along. It felt like any other Federation ship. And holy crap the reset button they used after every single episode… ugh. Voyager is the epitome of wasting a great concept.

[@OpinionsNoOneCaresAbout]

Of course f***ing Seska would be down to mutiny...

[@Scerttle]

1:30 I appreciate the clarification, given... you know... Beltran.

[@Donnagata1409]

"His personality dissappears after the second episode." What personality???

[@Spielkalb-von-Sparta]

A very good review! It's a shame the powers that be dropped the interesting premise and made it a guideline every episode would restart from zero and night throw away shuttles as if new ones came straight away out of the replicator.

[@johnchedsey1306]

Although I do have a soft spot for Voyager as it was my comfort TV show back in the day, I fully agree that they could have leaned way more into the Maqui tension and dire circumstances. I really would have preferred the crew & ship actually have to be scrappy and resourceful. Most episodes are just another "problem of the week" and sorta ignore the circumstances. And the ship was always too pristine to make their perilous journey fully believable. This recap reminds me that they spent waaaay too much time Kazon territory and that enemy was just annoying. I think Voyager just was too neat and tidy in most episodes. But like I said earlier, it was comfort viewing and still is for a lot of episodes.

[@jubalrahl]

Maybe it is just an issue of not aging well, but when I was younger I loved Voyager while not liking Deep Space Nine. I recently tried a rewatch of both and find that I like Deep Space Nine waaaay more than Voyager now.

[@steveng.clinard1766]

The series premise of combining a Starfleet crew with their erstwhile foes could have been compelling, but was undermined by the series creators from the start. To start, the Maquis are (former) Federation citizens, and as much as the writers try to punch up the idea that they are less principled, or something, they are still culturally Federation with essentially the same values as the Starfleet crew. Even the two Maquis series regulars are ex-Starfleet. It's hard to create dramatic conflict when both sides have the same values. Secondly, they weren't ultimately in conflict with the Federation, but with the Cardassians. Starfleet was mostly stuck in the middle. Finally, the Maquis were in conflict over colonies 70 thousand light years away. Being a Maquis in the Delta quadrant is meaningless. It's no surprise that the combined Starfleet/Maquis crew premise fizzled out so quickly and never amounted to much. It could have, if they had chosen a less compatible group or race, like Cardassians, Romulans, or the Faren Guys. But that would have been hard, and VOY really just wanted to play it safe and retread TNG.

[@Hugh_I]

Agree that they essentially share the same values, but I think there was still a lot of interesting conflict possible based on that. I'd also agree that it was kinda a mistake to portray the Maquis as "less principled" or somewhat wreckless outlaws who in part abandoned those high standards. Because they still do share the same principles and values, but as opposed to the star fleet people on Voyager, they had a very sobering moment in their life where they realized that having ideals and being sure on how to correctly act on them are two very different things. While the star fleet officers are still in their TNG sweet summer child phase of believing that the federation always is exactly what it wants to be, the Maquis people decided for themselves that it currently isn't living up to it and should actually be more radical about those principals, rather then "compromising" them away for the messy practical reality of having to deal with unpleasant neighbors. I wouldn't agree with the Maquis for the most part, but they raised some serious and very valid questions throughout DS9 about individualistic ideals vs "the needs of the many", about how democratic the federation even is, in particular star fleet, of self determination vs. collective responsibility and so on. They made it clear that you can't just be Roddenberry's utopia, but that it takes a lot of effort to maintain it and it isn't always clear cut to define on what it even means to apply those principles. If anything, they kinda proved that even Utopia needs a vibrant political debate and disagreement to figure these things out. I'm sure one could come up with a lot of conflict between two very different takes on what those principles they share mean practically. Esp. in a setting that VOY could have had being all alone and easily thrown into situations where pragmatism may sound extremely appealing. They kinda raised that issue here and there in VOY, but it could've been way more interesting if that wasn't just Janeway repeating Picard's struggle with figuring out the right solution to a moral predicament, but actually having somewhat of an underlying political debate about what it even means to apply federation principles, what contradictions you run into there - esp. with a group of people who are not convinced that the federation is necessarily doing a great job at that in the mix.

[@Mordakar]

Voyager and Enterprise both shared a similar fate. Utlimately, I think it was just burnout. By the time Voyager aired, there was already fifteen years of continuous trek between TNG and DS9. And with Enterprise, I don't think they really knew where they wanted to take it. They were such fertile ground, and the casts themselves were good, but the writer's room really fucked everything up. Year of Hell would have been an amazing season long arc that shaped the rest of the series thereafter, but it ended up a 2 parter that was hand waved away as though it never happened. In fact, I always thought Voyager should have adopted some of DS9's method of story telling, in that you have individual episodes that are tied together by a season long arc. Enterprise would have been incredible if they had started with season 4, that is, the whole Terra Prime arc, the idea that there's still some xenophobia humans are shaking off, which would have dovetailed nicely with portraying the Vulcan's as arrogant. Further, the Orion Syndicate could have been a really interesting recurring villain faction for a single earth vessel without the backing of something like Starfleet. It really is a bit depressing that Voyager and Enterprise wound up as milquetoast as they did.

[@mattdombrowski8435]

Hard disagree on the season long arc thing. I don't think star trek works very well with arcs. Imho, star trek at it's best is a thought experiment about some philosophical or ethical point wrapped up in just enough plot to make sense. If you stretch that past more than an episode or two, it really just slows everything down. Ds9 was able to more or less pull it off (because their big plot line was WWII. Federation = US, Klingons = UK, Romulans = USSR, Cardassians = Italy, Dominion = Germany, Breen = Japan) but even that was hit or miss for me and imho only worked as well as it did because ds9 did character development so exceptionally well. If you want to bring up the terra prime arc, I have to bring up the temporal cold war and Xindi arcs. The Xindi arc in particular, I could not wait for it to be over. Bad star trek writing is something that's been known to happen (famously so, I reccomend the book "redshirts" by John Scalzi), but they start fresh next episode (or the one after). In big arcs, that can just drag on and on and on and on.

[@ZuluRomeo]

I like the cut of Seska's jib. I reckon she will be a valuable addition to the crew on this intrepid journey. 🙃

[@gothatfunk]

The first time I saw it, I thought it was an instant classic Trek episode, cos it ticks a lot of boxes. Time paradoxes are usually some of my favourites, regardless of which iteration. But they tend to be better than average Voyager episodes. It was also good at investing us in the characters more. Despite it being my favourite Star Trek, I agree that Voyager's biggest fault was that it did not live up to its potential. With only a few exceptions, the ship barely suffered from any lasting damage, despite considerable conflicts. I generally think the show was off to a good start, until the Faces episode. Even for Star Trek, there was a lot to swallow there.

[@izuela7677]

I really like this episode. Not too much use of techno babble. The inter personal conflicts make a lot sense. Right amount of comic relief. Nails it!

[@FreihEitner]

Robbie and Garret frequently joke on their podcast about "The Voyager', but correct me if I'm wrong, "The Enterprise" was referenced dozens of times in TOS, the TOS films and TNG.

[@davidcolby167]

I remember watching this episode and going, "Voyager, what was the point of this story?" and Janeway smiled at me and said, "I like stories."

[@Brodo500]

My issue with the last reflection thing is why not fire a super weak phaser blast?

[@thegreenmanofnorwich]

I liked the idea that dexk 7 would have power to it cut off, though it seemed like it was a bit early. I do wish that they'd committed to the story properly, both with the ship and the conflicts between the differing crews. I really hated "warp particles". It just sounded stupid, and as I learned more about physics, it became clearer that event horizons don't work that way. They could have had a decent lower decks type feeling with the maquis, too.

[@Stilesda]

There were a bunch of weird continuity situations in Voyager - Other Harry is just one example - and we can theorize that they got onto the WRONG Voyager here and entered a new time continuity, a version of the ship slightly out of synch with their own ship, so that their ship would have gone on without them and had a totally different adventure, and maybe their being out of synch attracts some of the weird phenomena from later on. Then we can imagine that little moments of time not seeming right would have irritated Torres' complicated physics projects and helped lead to those moments where she seems angry for no reason throughout the show, and Janeway constantly having dejavu or noticing signs of the echo might have led her to becoming more paranoid and obsessed with time manipulation over the years and helped more fully develop the motivation she has at the end of the show. Voyager might have been constantly hot and cold but some of the weird stuff stands out. We never got "what if Trip died but was replaced by a jaded, traumatized time duplicate for the rest of the show" or "Spock has to mind meld a serial killer daily to keep him from attacking everyone, but it's also making Spock into a serial killer who is strong enough to literally tear people in half and people go on for months fearfully avoiding him" or "we're gradually adding a lot of non-Starfleet people to the Enterprise crew to a point where we have to ask why the fans are so mad about the command crew not being perfect exemplars of Starfleet rules." Trek always had a little bit of this in each show but VOY seemed to have these things come up more frequently. And the fact that they were often bottle plots makes it more chewy to think about. But also, what if these all been given more traction in the running story? "This season, we occasionally bring up Tuvok nearly murdering a guy." Doesn't have to be as intense as the writing in DIS where there's some high drama dominating every aspect of the show for five straight episodes before suddenly vanishing, but if this stuff had just a little more room to breathe it could have been legendary.

[@davidpumpkinsjr.5108]

I'd like to see a review of VOY: "The Swarm". The Doctor's program deteriorating is an interesting allegory on what it's like to see a loved one suffer from dementia.

[@danieldavies5418]

steve just as thought do you consider time squared and the emissary from season 2 of tng they're really good bottle episodes just a fan offering an idea

[@Black-Swan-007]

Synopsis of every Star Trek ever: Ah! There's a Space Thing!

[@miyahollands6136]

I would like to know when Janeway finally has enough of Harry Kim and starts trying to kill him at any given opportunity

[@rmeddy]

No Duet for DS9? or did I miss it? because that is THE Bottle Episode. As for Parallax , I remember thinking it was fine for an early episode kinda reminiscent of We'll Always Have Paris from early TNG One thing I remember sticking out for me was when Kes asked for soil samples for a hydroponics lab? What? Is that a thing? Early Voyager should've done a better job establishing stuff I felt it needed to make clearer that how they handle the photon torpedo and shuttle thing and yeah holodeck thing is just dumb.

[@lakegroce685]

I personally love the techno babble of Star Trek. I just nod along with whatever is being said and look some approximation of pretty.

[@finnbaker3985]

I do understand why the series moved away from the idea of inter-crew friction between the Marquis and Star fleet crew members. It would have gotten frustrating after a while, in a franchise that is based around positive cooperation. But the idea was dropped way too fast.

[@theonlymatthew.l]

I would understand the series moving away from inter-crew friction if they did it @ season three. They dropped it without even really giving it more than a cursory mention in a couple of episodes. If they had explored it properly , that could have made this show stand out from virtually every other Star Trek show.

[@AndrewD8Red]

Steve's cheap shots at Voyager are always rooted in legitimate shortcomings of concept, writing and execution... which are fairly minor to many fans, but still there. I think the reason it seems to bug him more than it bugs many other fans is because you can tell how desperate Steve was for the show to have followed up on the success of Caretaker. If Voyager had learned from more of the lessons of DS9, it could have easily been the best series in the franchise, so I can see why that disappointment would make him hyper critical of the show. ... Either that or he's just an incredibly grumpy motherfu

[@skeetsmcgrew3282]

Yes, that last paragraph is exactly it. There is an example of utilizing the premise properly, DS9 knocked it out of the park (pun intended). Voyager was just bad TNG

[@njb1126]

Hey Steve have you seen the Voyager/ Frasier crossover?

[@SteveShives]

From the Star Trek 30th Anniversary show? Yep! I watched it live.

[@njb1126]

@@SteveShives My Romulan loafers were singed beyond recognition!

[@exarkun516]

The Voyager should have been a Battlestar Galactica set in the Star Trek Universe.

[@danieltilson4053]

Part of loving Voyager means recognizing the flaws in it. Them going with a fully episodic format instead of a more serialized story was a mistake. On the other hand, having the Holodeck be on its own power grid independent of anything else does make sense. Remember that TNG episode where Geordi had to run a simulation with Leah Brahms to solve the problem of the week? That wouldn't have worked if the Holodeck had to be turned off to conserve power. Also the EMH should (theoretically) be on a similarly independent grid even though it isn't, because they do in fact have him shut down in some episodes where the "We don't have enough power" subplot becomes relevant again. Granted, deciding to use this to run a weird village in both holodecks for so long that the NPCs start developing sentience... and also start breaking down because there isn't actually enough memory to handle 47 sentient holograms, instead of keeping Holodeck 2 open for Chakotay to run secret First officer "stress" relief program X-alpha-1 so he can focus on his job instead of imagining Janeway in the tub from their weird exile plot for the rest of the trip home was a big mistake.

[@JoeWorley]

Voyager is PEAK Trek !

[@AZFlyingCook]

Thank you for clarifying the location of the stick, though that does ruin some really good fan fiction ... (scribble scribble rewrite rewrite)

[@charlesbrentner4611]

I didn't think it was bad. A classic outline of a real paradox in time. They used the same kind of plot device just a few episodes later.

[@RockyRailroadProductions_B0SS]

Voyager and Lost in Space have the exact same premise but they're missing the gay man sassing the robot/using Bill Mumy as a human shield against whatever monster or character actor that Smith has disturbed that week.

[@jimballard1186]

Those people are mispronouncing it. It's "the spidered man," on account of how Peter Parker got all spidered up from that big-time spidering all over his hand.

[@JRMcCarroll]

I thought it was a pretty weak explanation that they couldn't use holodeck energy. Like, why are those not on the same power grid as the rest of the ship? And you really expect me to believe that B'Elanna Torres can't make power converters? Maybe if they'd somehow tied it in to the fact that they had a holographic doctor, it would have worked better.

[@skeetsmcgrew3282]

It's like they didn't think through their own premise before they started filming. Like "Oh shit how can we fill 26 episodes without a holodeck episode?!" I'm so blinded by how angry the wasted potential is that I can't watch the show again. Deep Space 9 is an example of how you take a unique setting and absolutely wring it dry of every possible interesting consequence. I'd say zero wasted potential there. But the fact that they never even drop Starfleet protocols or the prime directive (ostensibly, of course they do inevitably). Janeway does not strike me as someone who would be a Starfleet fangirl for potentially decades just because she went to some academy

[@GrantCelley]

RIP Kerry. So close only like 5 episodes. Yet so far away.

[@uosdwiSrdewoH]

The problem with Voyager technobabble isn't even that there's too much of it. It's that it never feels in the least bit plausible. Up till now they make some effort to make the technobabble at least feel like it could be something that exists. In Voyager it's total nonsense and because of it's near constant overuse to explain any and all problems Voyager starts to feel lazy very early on when it should feel fresh. It's like they've already given up and have no respect for the audience or the show itself.

[@Talisguy]

They "look for a crack in the event horizon" to escape the anomaly in this episode, which makes less sense than planning to escape the orbit of a planet by hitting it so hard that you knock gravity unconscious, because at least you _can_ hit a planet.

[@KoRntech]

7:30 well said.

[@ianfallon326]

Oh, no. I've gone cross eyed.

[@MrFilbot]

If Ron Moore was the show runner he’d have doubled down on the conserving resources, replicator rations, division amongst the crew. Would have been like BSG.

[@MyMagnificentOctopus]

I thought your last line of the review was going to be "Instead the producers decided to make TNG".

[@YannaTarassi]

Oh no! A type 4 space thing!

[@briannaheine8587]

I would've enjoyed the series if it had a technobabble decreasing energy meter, tracked torpedoes/shuttlecraft, and carried damage over episodes. They're 75 years from federation resources and support. They should be a mess But everything was just the same perfect, spotless starfleet every episode

[@joearnold6881]

I don’t actually remember this episode, or any specific episode from Voyager, but but I do remember giving up on the show by the end of the first season (or maybe between season 1 and 2… I was like thirteen and it’s hazy) after having watched *all* of Next Gen and DS9 up to that point. I think Voyager turning out bad, along with just becoming an insufferable teenager, in part led me to eventually give up DS9 in its fourth or fifth season. If the show had followed the threads to this episode seemed to be laying, I might have stuck around a lot longer.

[@premiera_yojjimbo88]

”Nerdy girl bosses” Hahaha 😂

[@TheHimble]

I didn't mind this episode too much at the time. The "space-thing" plot-line should be entirely forgettable (if you can get over the science issues), and the B'Elanna/Maquis/Carey conundrum shows themes that could be explored better in the future. The overall story wasn't great, but I hoped it would be planting seeds for the show. The shame is that was lost track of this and just had a poorer reflection of TNG for much of the run.

[@firecat3613]

I loved Voyager... or at least the concept of it. The three biggest problems I had with the series, in order: 1. Kes. She came across as this wise old sage, but she was only TWO-YEARS-OLD! And, almost every time Janeway interacted with her, Janeway's demeaner completely changed, as if she were dealing with an injured deer. 2. Nellix. Although he did have his high points and there were a few episodes where Nellix did come across well, for the most part he was annoying and a little bit creepy and clingy (see his interactions with a 2 y/o Kes). And what is up with his petty jealousy bullsh*t? 3. Chakotay. He's a likeable enough guy. It's hard to actually hate him. But he was perhaps the most unrealistic character on the show. Unrealistic how? He's the leader of a rebel band of freedom fighters, but he's a Native American pacifist? How the hell was that supposed to work? Ryker would have made a more realistic 1st officer on Voyager! Dishonorable mention: 7 of 9... The character was cool enough, but she went from "We are Borg," (along with her altered pronunciation of the word, "futile." few-tile to feu-till) to eye candy, pin up girl. I get the writers where trying to attract teen-age boys, but it really didn't help the quality or validity of the show. Despite all this, I did love the premise enough to endure the downfalls and enjoy the series.

[@HBHaga]

You really shouldn't bottle up your feelings about Voyager like that, it's not healthy.

[@The280TimesTriviaChannel]

If I were on the shuttle with Janeway and Torres, I would have gone with option number 3. Charge phasers, set the power of the beam to something trivially low like 5% and fired at something superficial / non-essential. If the phaser hits the non-existent reflection, it should pass right through. If the phaser hits an actual ship, it would be obvious enough to tell but not do any damage. This would have also saved them several minutes and likely prevented the second stupidest line in the franchise I can think of.. "In command school, we're taught that flying a starship is delicate.. blah blah blah" Since when was "command school" a thing ? is it an optional add on course at the Academy ? is it something you can only take once you've been promoted to Captain ? or is this just basic fucking common sense ? Did someone actually feel the NEED at the Academy or this never before heard of "Command School", to take the time to say "Hey fuckers, don't ram your ship in to things.. it tends to break the ship. If there is one thing you take away from this course, it should be that" ? THE most stupidest line in the franchise, in case you were wondering was not "It's THE Voyager !" (honorable mention though) It's actually Worf in his first few episodes of DS9 when he tells Sisko "onboard the Enterprise I always knew who were my enemy and my allies". From which Parallel universe did THAT Worf come from ? Wow.

[@wardmicko1251]

Gotta wonder if Steve is a Red Dwarf fan. Swirly thing alert!