Star Trek Retro Review: "The Cloud Minders" | Labor Episodes

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#startrek #startrektheoriginalseries #startrektos #review #labor #laborrights #workers #workersrights

[@akeel_1701]

DROXINE: I have never before met a Vulcan, sir. SPOCK: Nor I a work of art, madam. And the look that Kirk shoots him.... priceless! LOL

[@jamesholland8057]

She is one of the sexiest on the show.

[@haqitman]

Is there nothing that can disrupt that cycle, Mr. Spock? (flutter flutter)

[@METVWETV]

​@@russellharrell2747 BRAIN AND BRAIN 🧠 WHAT IS BRAIN!?!

[@elim_inator]

@@russellharrell2747 Brain and brain! What is brain?!

[@dw7704]

Spock is so out of character in this episode, casually discussing pon farr with someone he just met. Some interesting stuff in this episode, but it was. Third season episode and it could have been much better.

[@empatheticrambo4890]

The issue of an environmental hazard seemingly lowering intelligence and morality sounds a lot like how housing segregation and educational segregation has harmed working class communities and communities of color

[@chrisblake4198]

lead pipes and paint are an even more overt example than housing. While they were used in both high and low income housing, they were far more extensively used in low income, and there was far less money available for removing them once they were shown to be hazardous. Similar with leaded gasoline, it ended up being prevalent for low income people far longer because they had no alternative but to keep using older vehicles that couldn't handle unleaded.

[@korrasera2417]

It's important to note that working class communities and BIPOC communities don't exhibit lower intelligence or morality in reality, and the perception that they do is, in and of itself, one of the harms caused to those communities by segregation and exploitation. This isn't a callout or anything, your comment just inspired me make a clarification about this point. I'm going to go into some detail about this, for anyone who reads this in the future. 1 Individuals from working class communities and BIPOC don't suffer from intellectual debilities. They are every bit as intellectually capable as anyone from a middle class or wealthy background, they simply lack access to the resources and advantages that wealthier, whiter communities are given. As an example, the wealthier the family the higher their children will score on tests, owing to the way that greater access to resources gives them the ability to provide their children with advantages like tutoring, special educational programs, and access to schools with much higher budgets than those of disadvantaged communities. The result? You can map SAT scores almost directly to family income, because the greater opportunity is what drives the greater success. 2 Similarly, people from working class or BIPOC communities aren't less moral or more violent than other communities. While crime rates will differ, there are a multitude of factors contributing to crime in a given area. A common one is widespread poverty. Income inequality and poverty across the US creates an environment where people are unable to earn enough money to afford basic necessities like food and shelter, something that is a direct cause of crime. People who have enough resources to survive don't have to turn to crime and so usually don't. When you control for factors like race and economic status, there's no difference between the overall criminality of any white community and any BIPOC community, any wealthy community or working class one. When people are exploited and predated upon and can work a hard job and still be unable to support themselves and their families, some of them will commit crimes in an effort to survive. And that's before we talk about things like the way that lower class, predominantly non-white communities are policed at greater rates than others, which skews and helps encourage police to engage in profiling behavior. And just as the commenter above mentions, lead is a good real world example of one such disadvantage that poorer communities faced. Environmental lead exposure hasn't been proved to be the cause of higher violent crime rates, but it is neurotoxic and people have theorized that the drop in violent crime could be due to the removal of lead from the environment. The US banned the sale of leaded gasoline in 1975, leading to a significant reduction in environmental lead levels that maps well to the lowering of violent crime rates. And even though US society as a whole saw a decrease in violent crime rates, it's working class and BIPOC communites that are still portrayed as being fundamentally violent and criminal. Wealthier communities were more violent in the past just the same. All of these things are distorted into proof that these communities are somehow less intelligent and less moral, as a way to rationalize away the failures of greater society to address these inequalities. Simply put, wealthy, white society tells a myth about working class and BIPOC communities that describes them as inferior and immoral, and it tells this myth to justify the continued mistreatment of these people. It's an unfortunate truth that plenty of people in society are okay with society hurting people on their behalf, as long as they're allowed to pretend that the person being mistreated has it coming.

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@korrasera2417I do think that’s why they said “seemingly”, but of course this is definitely useful extra context

[@DanielBrotherston]

Yes...this is a pretty clear allusion to that situation. The most interesting thing about it is, frankly, that it was written in the 60s. It was pretty well established 60 years ago, and Conservatives still deny it today.

[@korrasera2417]

@@kaitlyn__L Yes, exactly. I was trying to add the additional context for anyone that didn't pickup on the seemingly there, because sometimes people need the explicit explanation alongside the subtle one.

[@elromanozo]

You have to see it in context, too. The lack of details about the Zenite's rights is understandable because it would have gotten the show canceled if it were too specific, and too close to the many worker's rights protests/strikes/movements that took place only the year before this episode was aired (february 1969... 1968 was a huge year for all that). The whole episode also is about racism, as much as classism (only some of the zenites have black skins, none of the guys upstairs do, and most people in Stratos look blonde... the arguments of the Stratos leader are textbook racism, and even if what he said was true he would still be using another race a slaves). What else happened in 1968 ? Oh, yes, MLK's assassination. This is Star trek at its best because it's completely topical, and doing its maximum to take sides for the good of all. There's no need for specific details, or to be less subtle about this, because the lines, the demands, the context... everything would have been crystal clear to viewers in february of 69, perhaps even more than they are now.

[@euansmith3699]

Droxine, "What is it you Disruptors want?!" Vana, "We wanna be free! We wanna be free to do what we wanna do. We wanna be free to ride! We wanna be free to ride our machines without being hassled by The Man. And we wanna get loaded. And we wanna have a good time. And that's what we're gonna do. We are gonna have a good time. We are gonna have a party." Regarding Plasus; Upton Sinclair - 'It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.'

[@GregStachowski]

It's amazing how many times a statement like "this might be the superlative Star Trek episode on a topic, were it not for a Deep Space 9 epsiode" is true.

[@bkayser05]

I remember when I finally sat down and watched all of TOS a year or two ago, I was honestly shocked by the fact that this episode made it onto US television in the 1960s. I mean Vanna or Spock at various points were on the verge of quoting from Karl Marx directly. The idea that in the height of the Cold War this was not considered 'communist propaganda' says a lot about the lack of notice politicians took of television. Now days episodes like this one and Bar Association would be blasted with criticism by some fans and certain news networks for going 'too far,' even though they never outright started calling for a worker's revolution.

[@haqitman]

As a kid I felt it was a commentary on class more than worker's rights. And the zenite gas a metaphor for lead paint and pollution that the poor and people of color were exposed to at greater levels than middle class whites. I think it resonates today because the story is largely the same.

[@scpatl4now]

I like the similarity of Troglyte to Troglodyte. I always liked this episode.

[@gearandalthefirst7027]

The whole time I was like "that's a bit on-the-nose but I guess that word hadn't quite made its comeback yet at the time"

[@alanpennie]

Troglodyte (often shortened to trog) is a very 60s word.

[@ianmcintire6696]

“This episode really demands to be considered on two levels…” And if any episode ever did, it’s this one.

[@METVWETV]

Just Like your comment, methinks!

[@EddieSlabb]

Wait, so the most dangerous person in this episode is an anti masking leader who oppresses the working class for his own financial benefit? Predictive, and accurate.

[@Sparky1701]

OMG - I didn't even connect that!. Once again Star Trek displays prescient ideas and ideals

[@timmoore9855]

Well, no one else seems to have mentioned it, so I'll have at it: "Cloud Minders" sounds a lot like coal miners. one of the dirtiest, dangerous, least compensated jobs. But, of course, the metaphor extends beyond that. It's anyone who does the labor and doesn't share in the benefit.

[@marzsit9833]

not really, american coal miners today make big money, but there are not as many of them as technology has changed the mining process requiring fewer miners. a better metaphor would be american fast-food workers who get paid shit but the franchise owner banks millions each year.

[@utubinator]

​@marzsit9833 well this episode was made on the 60's, and regardless coal miners were hsitorically very poorly paid abd subject to dangerous and unhealthy workong conditions

[@tylermitchell7686]

I always think of this episode as a fun retelling of the heart of "Time Machine".

[@alanpennie]

It's a cross between Wells' story and Gulliver's Travels.

[@peterprokop]

You are spot on. I had rewatched it recently and was impressed how "in your face" this episode was. Unfortunately in the USA worker rights are worse than in many developing countries. The US is a cut-throat society compared to most developed countries.

[@robertkalinic335]

Not really, you are thinking too highly of europe.

[@TheBoriskuehn]

​​@@robertkalinic335where in europe have you ran into the level of economic insecurity and lack of basic labor rights that's the standard for large parts of the United States? Have your ever seen something as cynical and dehumanizing as the 'right to work' that so many of those red states subject their poor to? Where in Europe do people go bankrupt due to... Hospital bills?

[@robertkalinic335]

@@TheBoriskuehn Workers from eastern europe working through temp agencies...you can forget about labour rights as a concept. Your name sounds german. Doesn't really matter where from western Europe you are, it just shows sorry state of the european left.

[@samwill7259]

I wonder if, going frame by frame, you could see the exact moment this episode's message flew over Shatner's head.

[@Ragnarok345]

Context?

[@Sparky1701]

@@Ragnarok345 Shatner is well known for 'not sharing the wealth' with the rest of the cast when it comes to the 'spotlight'. For example, It was Nimoy who persistently stood up for the 'ancillary' (but not really) cast members - like in TAS, George and Walter weren't' going to be hired to do the voice overs, but Nimoy said if the entire cast of TOS wasn't involved in TAS, then he wouldn't do it. I think some of the 'bad blood' between castmates and Bill can be attributed to ego or just not getting along, but there are stories out there where Shatner spoke to the director to deliberately reset the scenes to focus on himself instead of the characters who should have been the focal point of those particular scenes.

[@jsdutky]

This is my favorite episode of TOS, not least due to the costume design. I was young and impressionable, and boy did Droxine make an impression on me.

[@lennierofthethirdfaneofchu7286]

How did her boobs *not* pop out of that outfit?

[@Sparky1701]

In this regard, it was 'Who Mourns for Adonais' for me as a very young lad.

[@user-mg5mv2tn8q]

Sherry Jackson as Andrea in What Are Little Girls Made Of?, and Angelique Pettyjohn as Shahna in The Gamesters of Triskelion. And yes, Diana Ewing as Droxine here. That guy William Ware Theiss knew how to make a costume, didn't he?

[@user-mg5mv2tn8q]

Oh, and how could I forget? Pretty much every female Enterprise crewmember.

[@MarcSGA]

Psyched for the DS9 union episode review! “He was more than a hero… He was a union man!”

[@patrickdodds7162]

Steve, are you going to review TNG's s3's "The Hunted"? Veterans are part of a workforce too and "The Hunted" really hits home how this class of people are mistreated.

[@ComradePhoenix]

Hard agree.

[@lennierofthethirdfaneofchu7286]

And (spoiler), the Prime Directive actually is useful in the end of that episode.

[@johnchedsey1306]

My dad was a huge, huge fan of TOS Star Trek. He even bought a color TV in 1980 to watch all the episodes in color after only have a B&W TV up to that point. Yet he was an old school conservative who hated labor unions with a passion. He passed away many years ago, so I'll never be able to ask him how he missed all the political messages in the show.

[@dw7704]

You can enjoy a story that has a theme or message you don’t agree with if it is well told. You can not like a story that has a theme or message that you agree with, if it is not well told. But in my opinion this story is not well told. David Gerrold, who gets a story credit didn’t like what they turned this into, he found it racist.

[@lisam5744]

It's easy to miss the message when you think 'it's just a show, just entertainment' and nothing more.

[@user-mg5mv2tn8q]

@dw7704 Yes, Gerrold wanted to make a much stronger statement, and hated the way the episode's conflict was resolved, characterizing it as something like, "If we just make the slaves wear these filters, they can get back to picking cotton again."

[@DoerOfThings8]

​@@dw7704I don't think you can enjoy a well told story that you completely disagree with. Would anyone enjoy a pro slavery movie just because it was well told? In fact a pro slavery movie couldn't actually be well told because the very premise relies on twisted logic that would completely ruin the movie. From the viewer's perspective, any media that they vehemently disagree with would have flawed writing and bad logic to the point that it could not be enjoyed.

[@2_pencil]

I always thought Droxine sounded like a sinus medicine and she was aptly named because she’s a drip.

[@candice523]

What!

[@look4lec]

Perfect one to review during this epic strike period... UPS wins $30 Billion, let's keep up the pressure. edit: since I'm in finance... Before the Union talks, UPS stock was hovering around around $190/share, come Late April when the Union talks started and strike threats were given, it dropped fast and was hovering around $170. It wasn't until negotiations started that it started to rebound, and with the agreement, it is up to as high as $188. Corporate got their nose bloodied, had to give $30 Billion in pay and benefits to workers, and it cost their investors almost nothing. This is a short term analysis but exactly what you'd expect. Basically, UPS gave some gas masks. Quite literally they improved air quality for the workers. edit2: GO SAG-AFTRA! These major streaming companies have to realize that they will have no new content for subscribers very soon and their future value will CRASH! Disney for instance, 6 months ago, was around $210... right now it's sitting under $90... they are playing with fire. Their market cap is $166 B and for paying out $430M they could have avoided this... the company has bled out nearly $150 B in value just by not agreeing to give the gas masks. These are simple small examples but very effective at demonstrating the concept.

[@justinsheppherd1806]

Nice work, Steve. Totally correct on the merits, and occasional lack thereof, of this story. From a 2023 perspective though, I have to take issue with the idea that the two sides are only seem as equals once it's confirmed that the differences in their intellects is caused by the gas. Even if it had been innate, that difference should make no difference to their equality, in terms of rights, dignity, etc. But still, from a 60's point of view, very good piece of work on a thematic, if not aesthetic level.

[@simonmacomber7466]

I really think that the guy in charge of the cloud city is fully aware of the effects of the gas, and is objecting to the masks, and the demands, because he is really just that selfish. This episode is only the *third time* a woman was able to show her navel on broadcast television without blow back. The first time was also in a Star Trek episode, "Mirror, Mirror" where Nichelle Nichols showed hers. The *second* was in the Star Trek episode "A Private Little War" where Nancy Kovack bared hers.

[@METVWETV]

There's an interesting story about that topic with Nancy Kovack They shot a scene of Kovack showering semi-nude (shot from the back) and put it in the final cut presented to NBC in hopes that the censors woule lock onto that scene and demand it be removed. This was to distract them from the other more sensual elements of the rest of the story that they might have taken issue with. Also, did you know Shatner and she were an item for a short time?

[@fisk0]

You know, as a non-native English speaker I never got the title until you pronounced it like that. I always assumed "minders" was similar to "lingers", and was pronounced similarly, and I don't know - referred to the gas rather than the 'thinkers up in the clouds'. Anyway, yeah, this was just one of many explicitly and unambiguously political episodes of TOS, it's crazy how many don't realize that was always what Star Trek was about. Or rather - I'd say the newer Star Trek shows are less of that, and lesser for it.

[@jamesholland8057]

You got it man.

[@williamrenz3141]

In this case, sir, "minder" is more like a caretaker. English is just a mess in that so many words have multiple meanings and pronunciations. I tip my hat to you for knowing two languages. 🖖

[@nathanhickman1723]

I'm pretty sure there's multiple meanings in the title. It's at least intended to be read as each side of the conflict: (1.) People who have their minds in the clouds. This would allude to those from Stratos who are unaware of the struggle and are only focused on "higher pursuits". (2.) The people responsible for keeping the clouds in the necessary state. This would refer to the Troglytes.

[@williamrenz3141]

@@nathanhickman1723 That's excellent! You likely would have gotten an "A+" in the Cinema class that I (ahem) failed.😳

[@rmdodsonbills]

Newer Trek is often more subtle than the original series, with this episode being a prime example of how low a bar that actually is, but I don't think it's more ambiguously political. TNG was particularly good about being subtle but unambiguous.

[@1monki]

The episode's ambiguous ending works for me. The cloud city's rulers would be reluctant to change a system they've benefited from to something fairer, while the miners would welcome the change. It's never the slaves that argue for an incremental movement toward freedom. It's a more realistic ending than a tidy agreement from both sides. This is a culture with a history of oppression. That doesn't change overnight, and the episode gets that right.

[@lkeke35]

Watching the Cloud Minders was where I first became aware of Labor Relations issues (and Marxism) as a child! had no idea I was learning these philosophies.

[@euansmith3699]

"Workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose, but your chains!" Rom. 👍

[@willmfrank]

Interesting choice of subject matter for a Retro Review, given the current situation. Purely coincidental, I'm sure. 😉🤔🤨

[@ivane5110]

I remember this one fondly; as both a major fan of The Time Machine (this felt like a glimpse into what it was like for the Morlocks and Eloi in some middle era between ours and that future one) and of cities in the sky (thanks to a comic or two at the time) this was one of those episodes that had me daydreaming so much while watching it that each time I' ve seen it it surprised me by which favorite parts weren't even actually in it but had just been my kid selves imagination. This is one of the episodes I'd have been happy to have followed into a spinoff. And you gotta love the cloud city security uniforms.

[@jamesholland8057]

Eat the Eloi, they are so tasty.

[@bekkers29]

Oh yeah, if they don't get their house in order soon, the Troglytes are definitely going to start shouting, "Eat the rich!"

[@garysouza95]

The backdrop of the view from Cloud City is a orbital picture from a Gemini spacecraft of a sand choked Middle east canyon.

[@josephheston9238]

Also, xenite gas could also be a metaphor for exposure to lead (considering that both lead and xenite gas does damage the brain).

[@AaronLitz]

The only explanation for all the people who complain about _Star Trek_ being political is that they have never actually watched _Star Trek._

[@karenlynch4000]

I'm a lifelong Trek fan, was lucky enough to watch the original run in my teens. That groundbreaking series helped form the social attitudes I hold to this day. It had to veil the politics to stay on the air, but some of us got it.

[@Bedonkabonk]

I'm really happy that unions are beginning to become strong in the United States again.

[@garysouza95]

David Gerrold wrote the original teleplay, the oppressed slave worker theme was much more pronounced, and there was no convenient physical explanation for the state of the workers, just rationalization the slaves were inferior. Sound familiar? The problem was not neatly resolved, the oppression continued. Message was blunted considerably.

[@allanolley4874]

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall Cloud Guy was skeptical there could be an invisible gas that does stuff. How do you build a civilization with a cloud city and not realize that some chemically and biologically active gases are invisible? Although I had all these thoughts before 2020, I guess on reflection maybe his incredulity about the efficacy of masks was not so hard to believe. I don't really remember it well so a bit broadly and crudely told, but when you announced you were doing a series of labour themed retro reviews, I thought well this might be one.

[@Seal0626]

Or he already knew, and wanted the status quo maintained. Saying "well they're just naturally inferior" serves that end regardless of whether or not it's true.

[@wtspman]

Kirk traps Plassus in a contradiction about his disbelief in the power of invisible gases. When they are trapped in the mine, Plassus worries that they will run out of air, and Kirk asks him how he can be afraid of the lack of an unseen gas.

[@willmfrank]

Steve's line about "You can't mine what's already been mined, 'cause it's already been mined down in the mine..." reminds me of his "I'm an American, from America" bit from last night's Poirot watch party. 😉😁

[@queenannsrevenge100]

Be honest, Steve - have you been keeping this one in your back pocket, or were you rewatching it more recently and went "Holy Shit, I forgot about this one." 😂 Gotta say, I had completely forgotten about this episode, but wow, do some themes constantly recur...

[@thork6974]

One of the more conceptually memorable episodes. Practically the only thing that gives it away as a Season 3 joint is the conspicuous lack of background extras. Are there only three people in all of Stratus?

[@jeffnorris7592]

Not Jeff here. Although I really dislike the "oh, it's the gas, these masks will make everything hunky dory" part of the plot, there's an unspoken disproof of Plasus' assumption of the troglytes inferiority standing right next to him. That is Vanna. If I remember correctly, she is a troglyte who has been taken to Stratos and is a long time and well known servant. In other words, she's been removed from the "gas", learned how Stratos works, including how to get in and out, and is the leader of a well organized rebellion that has the Cloud people in fear of their lives. Pretty good for an inferior, eh? Throughout the whole episode, Vanna is shown to be smarter and more capable than anyone, even tricking Kirk. She's pretty smug at the end, because she knows that in no time she's going to be the ruler of the entire planet, Cloud and mines together. I consider her one of Trek's unsung heroines. edit: I think the writer's could have dropped the whole gas thing and just gone with that. David Gerrold, the Trouble with Tribbles writer, did the original story, and wrote that he was terribly unhappy about how it was twisted. See "The World of Star Trek"

[@pentalarclikesit822]

One of my favorite things about this episode is that Kirk is basically saying, "Yeah, that's sounds like a you problem, give me my zenite," until everyone annoys him into interfering.

[@marklewus5468]

I think it’s hilarious when conservatives complain about how woke new Star Trek is. Clearly they did not watch TOS, or just weren’t paying attention.

[@AdventureOtaku]

If people think this episode was “woke” - i so hate that word….- wait until they see ‘let that be your last battlefield.’

[@KnaveMurdok]

I've heard people say that "old trek's politics forced people to make up their own minds by not spoonfeeding "the right answer" to the audience and i have such a hard time trying to think of even one example of that in the series ever. I feel like this is a misconception that springs out of media illiteracy, seeing a thing and having no idea what it's trying to tell you because you don't care or the answer is scary or offensive to you. I recall a time many many years ago when a friend was trying to get me to listen to this one rapper, and he knew that I was a person that was very moved by art that spoke on social issues. He had me listen to this one song that was about gay marriage, and he said "this song is really interesting because it presents both sides of the argument in a really compelling way", but when I sat there and really listened to it, it was very clearly a very pro gay marriage song, unambiguously so, even going as far as to mock people who were anti-gay marriage as intolerant homophobes. i have no idea why my friend tried to frame the song for me in this way, but it was a happy ending because I wound up really liking the song.

[@kaitlyn__L]

Yeah, I think most “ambiguous” readings just come by selectively ignoring certain parts, either outright or just not analysing them. Especially in Star Trek, where some people never consider that characters might not always be truthful, so one piece of dialogue can sometimes override all the themes, progression of events, obvious hinting of true events, etc.

[@ariadnavigo]

"Shives was more than a hero, he was a union man!" 😉

[@euansmith3699]

👏👏👏👏

[@pokepress]

The idea of an “enlightened upper class” living above a “lower” one appears numerous times in fiction. I’m reminded of the 12000 B.C. Era in Chrono Trigger.

[@justinplayfair9827]

The masks were not part of the original story, according to the original author of the episode, to quote him, David Gerrold, "The story focused primarily on the lack of communication between the skymen and the Mannies. Kirk's resolution of the problem was to force the two sides into negotiation. He opened the channels of communication with a phaser in his hand. "You -sit there! You -sit there! Now, talk!" And that's all he does. He doesn't solve the problem himself, he merely provides the tools whereby the combatants can seek their own solutions, a far more moral procedure." If you read the Memory Alpha page on the episode, it goes into more details about the changes made.

[@TalShiar69]

A brilliant analysis of this episode! I too would have liked to know what the end result was . Did the Troglytes get their equality and how could the Federation be blind to what was going on, on a member world. Definitely needed a follow up.

[@Xpndable]

6:15 the deadpan delivery had my laughing out loud, nice work!

[@FandersonUfo]

"Spock's Brain" and "The Way to Eden" are the only worse episodes in TOS's worst season - still some great stuff like "Day of the Dove" and "The Enterprise Incident" filmed in season 3 though

[@seantlewis376]

I haven't watched this episode in at least 20 years. I appreciate your reviews, especially when they make me want to go login to paramount+ to watch the episode again. Star Trek has always been socially aware, even the "fun" episodes like "A Piece of the Action" and "The Trouble with Tribbles".

[@hendrsb33]

I always remembered this episode for that cartoony cutout of the miner falling to his death. It always made me laugh.

[@amymjennings]

Great Series 3 episode! Than you for your great and interesting POV opinions Steve, you are usually right! As here, I give you a 88-98% on your reviewing in agreements in arguments. Nice to see we all have out perspectives from time, I from the early 80s through today, you too?, sibce The 1990s? Love your HONESTLY in your reviews and life outlook's, Best regards! ❤🎉 Bravo! 😊

[@typeviic1]

One of my favorite episodes. The workers producing the wealth, benefit the LEAST from it. BTW, there was NO discussion of co-pays and/or deductibles for the administration of the Zeenite(sp) medicine. .............hmmmm

[@tonoornottono]

i love the more magical aspects of TOS that shedded away as time went on. it’s much more of a pulp space fantasy than it is hard science fiction. i love the visual aesthetic so much, the city in the sky is just gorgeous. i wish more modern trek shows leaned into this strange psychedelic aesthetic of TOS.

[@st.anselmsfire3547]

Like "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield," they got really stuck on a great message but forgot to tell a great story. That being said, TOS usually struck the balance really well. Just not with this episode.

[@AlexandreSantosBR]

Great video This is one of the best episodes of season 3

[@METVWETV]

I love season 3! Don't care what the Critics say!

[@Zurpanik]

So many good laughs with the "back in the day" breaks! The first time you said it in the video I KNEW it was going to be a spicy one!

[@ProuvaireJean]

Labour relations allegory aside, this episode used to be criticised by fans because Spock is so willing to discuss the pon farr with Droxine, when he was so reluctant to tell even his closest friend about it in "Amok Time". (This was in the days before every character in Starfleet seemed to know about Vulcan mating rituals.) Although, to be fair to Spock, I'd be wanting to talk about mating urges too if Diana Ewing was flirting with me, especially in that outfit.

[@jimmcclements5229]

I enjoy your reviews. I never really looked that deep into The Original Series. It gives me a better understanding I always took the episodes at face value.

[@skug9bob]

"Doomsday machine" and the atomic arms race: "A Private little War" and the Vietnam conflict: "Let that be your Last Battlefield" and race relations: "Patterns of Force" and Nazis are bad (OK, that was a sort of a gimme): "The Mark of Gideon" and the population bomb. And those are just the more obvious ones. Star Trek was definitely woke by 1960s standards.

[@user-mg5mv2tn8q]

You can see The Cage/The Menagerie as a commentary on television being "the vast wasteland", with the Talosians wanting nothing more than to spend their lives vegging out while watching their shows.

[@Ronson2k9]

Droxine to Plasis - "Are we so certain of our methods we never question what we do?" (Absolute power corrupts absolutely)

[@mishapurser4439]

This has always been one of my favourite TOS episodes

[@karlkutac1800]

Axel Rose jumps off the balcony

[@oddtail_tiger]

People who live and work in terrible conditions do not have the ability to fully develop their intellectual potential, which is in turn used to justify their terrible working conditions? What a fanciful, imaginative idea Star Trek has that is in no way connected to anything that ever happens in real life! I love Star Trek from before it got all political and crap.

[@jimlang7461]

The best thing about this episode is Droxine's costume.

[@robertkelley3437]

Vaina's was good too.

[@DawnDavidson]

Droxine’s costume is clearly playing with the rules around how much “cleavage” they could show. “Oh, we can show costumes that are cut too low over the breasts? How about THIS? The breasts are completely covered!” 😂😂😂

[@pfefferfilm]

Also I like Vana's trans pride eyeliner. You go girl

[@firefly4f4]

I'm trying to figure out which episode of DS9 you could be talking about, and figure it must be either Far Beyond the Stars, or Bar Association. I'm guessing the later. The former may be one of the best episodes of Trek ever, the latter is explicitly pro-union and not being oblique about it.

[@wtspman]

I like your analysis of this episode. However, I think TOS sometimes wavered in its message. The example that comes to mind is the two season 1 episodes, A Taste of Armageddon, and Errand of Mercy. In Armageddon, Kirk is gobsmacked at the idea that the Emenians are waging a cold war with computer selected casualties against their planetary neighbours on Vendikar. This leads to some of the first examples of “Kirk kills machines” in the series. Four episodes later, in Errand, when the roles have changed, Kirk is really annoyed at the Organians for their passive response to the Klingons. In the end the Organians do to Kirk and the Klingons, what Kirk did to the Emineans a month earlier. The outcome ends up being the same, but the agents changed.

[@garysouza95]

Star Trek: TOS not political? Let This Be Your Last Battlefield. A Private Little War. Errand Of Mercy. The Omega Glory. A Taste Of Armageddon. 😮

[@logiciananimal]

City on the Edge of Forever, The Doomsday Machine, Balance of Terror, Day of the Dove,... - all of those 4 are antiwar, though the first is ambivalent in a *good* form of "both sides", and the second is arguably about nuclear weapons more narrowly and not war in general.

[@BoydsNest1959]

Slightly surprised you didn't mention the similarities between Cloud Minders and Metropolis (Fritz Lang/Thea von Harbou) The mediator between the head and the hands must be the heart.

[@kurathchibicrystalkitty5146]

I read that David Gerrold wrote the original outline for this one, but during the re-writing process, a lot of the subtitles got lost. The ending was completely changed, to the extent that Kirk originally forces the groups into negotiations and then leaves before the negotiations actually start, with Kirk congratulating himself afterwards, only for McCoy to point out, "Yes, but how many children will die in the meantime?" A much more somber and uneasy ending, I think, so I wish that we could've got David Gerrold's full story idea. I also find the notion of Spock flirting with anyone to be...very out of character? Maybe it's just Season 3 weirdness?

[@kurathchibicrystalkitty5146]

Please add likes so Steve can see this!

[@thork6974]

Gerrold is also the likely reason the Minders have that spiffy teleporter pad. It always bugged him that the Transporter somehow worked without a receiving station, and both this ep and Tribbles feature one.

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@kurathchibicrystalkitty5146 he approves comments, so definitely already saw it :)

[@pfefferfilm]

The Cloud-Minder police got their uniform from the same place the Sardukar in the Dune Miniseries got theirs

[@R_C420]

He getting down w Cristine on some protocol¹² looking for that third.

[@alanpennie]

The episode seems to owe a considerable debt to Swift and the flying island of Laputa, which bizarrely is also the name of the rocket base targeted in Dr Strangelove.

[@nutherefurlong]

When you talked about the Omelas epiusode of SNW I immediately checked Memory Alpha to see if they were the same planet...

[@planz_rc]

the dead pan is perfect...ty

[@captainyossarian388]

Reminds me a bit of 'Devil in the Dark', one of the very best episodes of Star Trek.

[@kristinesprunger6416]

I hadn't realized how much in a hurry Kirk was to get the Zenite for the planet with the crop issues. Or had forgotten. It makes me wonder if he was in such a hurry because that situation reminds him of Tarsus.

[@silversam]

Love these good old non-political unwoke not-at-all-Marxist episodes of Star Trek. Best part is when Spock smiles broadly enough to show his one gold tooth and says "McDonald's is always hiring, ya bums."

[@JamesC1981]

10:18 that's interesting i did take it kirk was getting very eager to get the stuff and leave to help the people on the other planet. i'd even say he was getting desperate which led to his unorthadox solution

[@jackalovski1]

If these is one good use for AI voice and image manipulation it would be to edit this episode of Star Trek so that Kirk says to Plassus “facts don’t care about your feelings”

[@-MCMLXXII-]

This episode is so obviously H G. Wells' 'The Time Machine' without the time travel. That was an awkward sentence, and I probably fucked it up.

[@TheRatsintheWalls]

Naw, you phrased it essentially correctly.

[@jamesgasik3424]

Yep, good old non-woke, conservative science fiction classic, Star Trek! No in your face social commentary here!

[@themindfulbeing]

Can't wait to see you review Episode 8 of S2 SNW... It's very DS9. I think you will love it!!

[@JoeBoppyBop]

Steve, in many cases, my humble opinion regarding the tendency for conservatives to miss the consistency of older Trek’s overt progressive agenda is this. As decades roll by, many progressive issues (not all, but many) that once had conservatives up in arms become normalized and accepted by the culture at large. This includes most mainstream conservatives. When that happens, these people don’t see the original controversy because the issue is no longer an issue to them. Case in point, the first televised interracial kiss from the TOS episode Plato's Stepchildren between Kirk and Ohura, had a majority of American conservatives shitting their collective pants when aired in 1968. Today, most conservative Star Trek fans don’t even see that seen as anything more than Kirk and Ohura being manipulated by telekinetic assholes. Or, those that do see the historical significance of that kiss are already on the correct side of the fence on that issue that offended so many of their predecessors. Given enough time, progressive ideas do move the country forward, and there isn’t anything conservatives can do about it. What bothers them right now, won’t bother their children and grandchildren, at least not the majority of them.

[@steveschmaling8217]

......Clouds? In your ceiling?

[@42roadsforman]

This was one of my favorite episodes when I was a little kid. My mom used to let me stay up till 11:00 p.m. every Saturday to watch Star Trek. Funny because the ones that you would think I would have liked as a kid like trouble with tribbles etc didn't really care for. I liked this one, the changeling, the one with the gorn, I like the one where Kirk is fighting that guy he went to Starfleet with. I forget which episode that is. I guess I tended to like the more boring cerebral ones. Never really cared for the 'funny' ones..... And you guessed it yes I really like Star Trek the motion picture. A lot. Star Trek 2 is the best however

[@Nom_AnorVSJedi]

Female fashions on Cloud City seem very liberating.

[@euansmith3699]

Kind of clingy, I thought. 🤔👍

[@melindahall5062]

And stuck up..in the literal sense of course….that Bill Theiss…….

[@fabrisseterbrugghe8567]

Xenon is a gas. Is Xenite supposed to be a solid form of Xenon?

[@jonathanwalls8106]

Such an underrated episode of tos!!!

[@seandobbins2231]

Honestly, I think this is an even better labor episode than the "certain DS9 episode" since while the latter focuses a lot on unions (which is still a very important labor topic btw), this episode has more layers and simplifies the topic in ways that's easy for [nearly] everyone to sympathize and all of the people who really matter. This episode covers classism, racism, educational barriers, and even hypocritical violence. Don't get me wrong that DS9 episode is fantastic in its own right and is a must watch for literally every working class person, but I think this episode hits every note well, not just certain ones amazingly well, and does it in a simple way that actually sounds apolitical, which is as all social issues should be. It's a great episode and while not one of the best Star Trek episodes of all time, I'd say it is the best labor episode. It's honestly a little too bad that this comment won't be seen since I'm rather "late to the party", but still thought to leave my thoughts nonetheless just in case at least one will see it. Great review overall though.

[@yensid4294]

Um, I watched TOS when it originally aired on TV. I was a literal child of 6 or 7 & watched it with my mom (I got to stay up & watch it with her) & even back then my baby brain was able to comprehend the morals of the stories regarding inequality, greed, prejudice, etc. It wasn't subtle in its message. Like at all. I am curently streaming Stargate SG 1. We didn't have cable when SG1 was on in the late 90s & i've always been curious about it since I remember the film the series is based on. The series often reminds me so much of TOS as far as the not so subtle social-political subtext. Makes sense since this show was created exactly 10 years after the fall of the Berlin Wall & supposed end of The Cold War & continued post 9-11 for a few seasons.

[@rickjohnston2667]

I see another analogy in this episode. The planet Ardana is like apartheid South Africa, minus the racial element. The Troglytes in the mines are the black South African miners, mining zeinite instead of gold or diamonds. The Stratos city dwellers are analogous to the white South African minority. Vanna even mentions needing a transport card to leave the city, when Kirk breaks her out of jail.

[@RustyShock]

15:16 No, Steve. They've never watched classic Trek, nor TNG, nor DS9, nor VOY. Their problem is not with Modern Trek. Their problem is with Trek itself.

[@MarcColten-us2pl]

When i see this episode i think that H.G.Wells was years ahead with the split between the Eloi and tne Morlocks. The rich got richer and the poor descended into brutism.

[@while.coyote]

I'd love to see modern trek do this one.

[@heroloray]

Are we going to get an episode of “Among the Lotus Eaters” in this series? I have to admit, on first viewing I just saw it as a classic TOS style episode, but then I realized it was also a classic TOS style episode, rife with political and social commentary on the current state of inequity in the workplace

[@IanZainea1990]

4:07 this lady kinda looks like Pikes love interest in SNW

[@wezul]

In my experience, laying out incontrovertible proof for your argument merely assures the people supporting the opposing view will totally ignore it. None of them will respond to your essay this episode, because there is no response that can possibly support their position. Though if I'm wrong and someone does manage the mental gymnastics to defend the "non-woke, both-sides" argument in response to this essay, I sure do hope you'll cover it on a Not Actually video. :)

[@TahoeNevada]

I'm playing thru Star Trek: Resurgence and realized that the underlying plot to the game is similar to The Cloud Minders. 😮

[@kagomecc461]

❤😂🎉i just watched this episode on Pluto TV 😁😎🖖

[@griffruby8756]

Kind of bizarre seeing a whole Star Trek episode being about PPE (personal protective equipment).