Star Trek - The Dominion Surrenders

[@brianvincentdoucet4273]

That founder warning the others about their victory tasting as bitter as defeat - that was rather intense if you ask me.

[@deksroning125]

Nah. She just didn't care about the loss of life that's been happening around her probably because the Link itself was infected and dying. So, she was willing to take everything down with her. But that's where she got it wrong. The Link would die, the Jem'Hadaar with no new masters would go into proverbial melt-down (or something to that effect), the Dominion as such would end up collapsing completely. Ships can easily be replaced with replicators, transporters and automation. That's the LEAST of their problem. And while yes, lives would have been lost, every person on those ships knew what they were getting themselves into and knew of the risks. So, while the wounds of the war would linger for a time, eventually, people would recover - and its mostly people on ships would would be in danger of losing their lives - a tiny fraction of the UFP population. Given UFP's overall principles and ideals, there would be plenty of people who would want to join Starfleet. Same applies for the KDF, and other species organisations. Point is, the Dominion ends up crumbling into dust and the Founders cease to exist as we know them.... Dominion crumbles, and then the 'solids' end up winning anyway. She may have thought that she was trying to inflict as much damage as possible, but honestly, its a tiny price to pay, and we know the aliies were willing to go through it if necessary. I'm all for diplomacy, but a bit more interesting comeback would have been even more poignant... and then offering her the cure and a way to save the Link.

[@Kian2002]

Pyrrhic Victories are by their very nature a catastrophe for all sides.

[@ChrundleTGreat]

And relevant. War is literally hell.

[@astrofan1993]

@@ChrundleTGreat Watch the scene from M*A*S*H where Hawkeye tells everyone in the OR the difference between war and Hell. He says that war is a lot worse than Hell, because people who are innocent don't go to Hell, but plenty of innocents find themselves in warzones. And if you ask me, he's right. War is war, and Hell is Hell, and of the two, war is a lot worse.

[@thodan467]

@@deksroning125 I would expect the Jem Hadar going in to berserk mode

[@davelamphier2709]

"I wish you hadn't done that, I'm fresh out of Weyouns."

[@xaviercast970]

Good, I wasn't looking forward to unaliving more of them.

[@grndiesel]

Maybe they should talk to Worf again.

[@jimslancio]

"My Weyoun copier is fresh out of toner."

[@Lightning546]

Don't worry, he'll be on Enterprise as an Andorian.

[@MIMALECKIPL]

@@Lightning546 fascinating cloning technology ;)

[@AnEnemySpy456]

The one nameless Cardassian redshirt guy left with Kira and Garak at the end. "Holy crap, I can't believe I survived."

[@TheMrPeteChannel]

Later dies from a falling wrecked loose overhead beam as he was trying to get back to his neighborhood.

[@michaelcharlesthearchangel]

Jeffery Combs going "ooOO" almost everytime Weyoun dies is black comedy gold.

[@ducknorris233]

Sisko-let’s see what kind of CGI budget that we have waiting for us

[@michaelfreudiger]

I wish they had chosen to not recycle the occasional space-battle clip in these final battles, I think it would have been better to show less scenes (all new) than have more scenes because of recycled shots mixed in... it kind of cheapened it. The recycled clips were too recognizable.

[@superzentredi]

If they ever remaster DS9 I hope they insist on producing new VFX in place of the recycled footage. I believe the intent was a much larger space battle and to have the beginning of the final battle over Cardassia but the network photon torpedoed their budget for the finale. Still impressive what they were able to do.

[@AgentK-im8ke]

@@superzentredi a complete reboot to modern standards would be better cause this kind of story telling doesn't work nowadays you can't throw in a big plot with side missions on the series as they did back in the days, the industry completely changed

[@bellissimo4520]

​@@AgentK-im8ke There are millions of people who CRAVE this kind of story telling to return; it's not for the better that the "industry" has abandoned it.

[@AgentK-im8ke]

@@bellissimo4520 thing people would not watch it maybe the old guards but not the young people thing is series nowadays are much better in my opinion

[@comingverysoon]

The Dominion war was peak Star Trek. IMO, nothing else in any of the series comes close to it.

[@Alamandorious]

It only came into being, though, to counter Babylon 5. Had it not been for B5 and the Shadow War, we wouldn't have gotten the Dominion War.

[@cennon]

I really liked the idea of a bigger, badder federation made up of lots of difference alien races. I just wish they showed more of them.

[@DIEGhostfish]

@@cennon Or at least brought back a few of the other client races of the Dominion.

[@stevepannone6144]

Agreed

[@Warhead-haggis]

​@Alamandorious babylon 5 had some very interesting concepts, but the execution was clunky. The acting was mostly bad, with the exception of a handful of core actors. It did have some fairly good ship battles but the cgi was very late 80s dated and basic. And the set design was distractingly low quality. The stories had some dramatic moments but the pacing was often slowed down to pad out the time. Some characters were good, mostly the alien characters. I never found any of the humans to be anything more than annoying daytime tv drama level characters. In short, babylon 5 was terrible compared to DS9... and I don't agree that the babylon 5 in any way influenced DS9 or its story. BUT if it did then DS9 did it far better.

[@nuclearwinter391]

'What's left of it..' This Weyoun had it coming.

[@PumpkinHoard]

Yeah, he kinda asked for that one. "Overconfidence, the hallmark of the Weyouns." - Damar

[@shiroamakusa8075]

"Maybe you should talk to Worf again"

[@AnEnemySpy456]

Weyoun never did learn his lesson about mouthing off to the wrong people.

[@Dave-ox8vw]

Put simply THE best ever Star Trek series, stellar characters, just too many to mention, written to perfection, wow

[@bilbo1778]

About 35% of the episodes were cringey filler but from the remaining 65% I agree

[@RD-ru9jc]

DS9 never got the respect it deserved. Just weird enough to make it stand out

[@zacharyberridge7239]

I still prefer TNG. But, I'll freely admit it is far more up and down in terms of quality than DS9. And DS9 does have two of my favorite episodes of any Trek: Duet and By the Pale Moonlight

[@eddiefury]

TNG was still better

[@RaineRed]

back when trek was at its peek

[@Cha0sCloud]

peak

[@the-BOR-dojo]

facts

[@alexwest2514]

@@Cha0sCloud piek

[@2Scribble]

Which is funny - because DS9 was almost cancelled twice xD

[@christopherpericolosi-king4979]

It sure was!

[@Sycokay]

Together with Babylon 5 my most beloved scifi show...they don't make them like this anymore.

[@seregrian5675]

They can't - and won't...

[@CoshVSR]

But Star Gate...

[@michaelriddick7116]

Babylon 5 is still fantastic :)

[@scottamann2445]

Definitely my two favorite sci fi shows!

[@tallthinkev]

@@seregrian5675 Not aloud to make like they used to

[@BlueLantern2815]

Weyun died as he lived, mouthing off to people he shouldnt have

[@Ironcorgi2]

Hallmark of the vorta

[@michaelstone7514]

DS9 is the definitive Trek. The storytelling is superb! Acting script sets and costumes aces!! They managed to tell two incredible story arcs while weaving in many standalone episodes. The Sisco arc to demigod status and Odos journey of self discovery and eventual dominion plot were immaculate! Kudos to all involved!

[@ricogoldstar]

The line The founder gave about "victory tasting as bitter as defeat"... Cold AF

[@davidkay7389]

Aka Pyrrhic victory

[@thaphreak]

That look before she solidified... Odo showed her the reality of her situation and she knew the species would be extinct if she continued.

[@itsOasus]

At the same token, I think she was at the point where she would have done ANYTHING to get Odo to agree to go back and rejoin the Great Link. Even if it meant ending the war against the Alpha Quadrant powers. That above all else has been the Great Link's desire ever since the series began.

[@gotham23us]

That’s not why she surrendered. She surrendered because Odo was ready to return to his people if she ended the war. She always said nothing mattered more than Odo coming home. Not even the entire alpha quadrant.

[@mooncake387]

​@@gotham23us why did she want odo so bad, what did he have?

[@davidlister7590]

@@mooncake387 He had nothing at all but the life of a Founder to the Founder is priceless and to be protected at all costs and so why he had nothing his life was worth the whole alpha quadrant to her and the other Founders.

[@mooncake387]

@@davidlister7590 but odo was happy in the alpha quadrant, he was protected too, the founders literally had no reason to fear for him.

[@friedrichjunzt]

A Star Trek without constant explosions, fist fights and lots of crying?? In 2024, almost unbelievable. I am happy to be a child of the 80s so I could watch Star Trek in its old, full glory.

[@toddjones1480]

This show was that to a lot of older fans. Not me, but a lot.

[@mariolawrence897]

@@toddjones1480 DS9 was definitely the most violent and dramatic of all Star Trek for its time. It's tame compared to Star Trek content today.

[@toddjones1480]

@@mariolawrence897 Agreed.

[@trekgirl65]

Excuse me, this was a war. There was a lot of peace and no war in Star Trek. Please do not live on Violence. Never ends well. And this was not in the 1980's, this was in 1990's.

[@splooie02]

pretty sure it's still on paramount plus, you can watch it anytime

[@MAZE4]

I was hoping you would say that, priceless delivery from Andrew Robinson 😅

[@martinithechobit]

DS9 NEVER ENDS!.

[@stevenphillips3466]

The Last two seasons of Deep Space 9 were Outstanding

[@KH4444444444N]

Last 5 seasons. I fixed it for you.

[@adamant4107]

I loved this show. Pissed me off they didn't get more seasons. It getting better and better each season. We haven't had anything this good since.

[@BaronVonMott]

It's a shame, yes, but better that it ended at it's peak, rather than get dragged out for too long and end up as trash.

[@tonyfelder1206]

I know the saga of DS9 continued in books like other Trek shows. There was a 2-part book story called ST: Avatar in which the saga took place after the war featuring Captain Picard and crew plus new DS9 characters including Ro Laren as new security chief. Never read the books, but it would've been nice if a live-action movie or miniseries could've been made.

[@ImYourOverlord]

Every Star Trek series gets seven seasons, unless an atrocity befalls it, or it proves too abysmal to continue.

[@ValiantWrestling]

Enterprise Season 3 & 4 were good, too bad it was cancelled when things really started getting going, but because Berman and Braga kept that temporal cold war storyline going for 3 years with it going nowhere and many other terrible season 1 and 2 episodes, people tuned out and never came back, despite it getting better after they were gone.

[@darkmatter1152]

​@@ValiantWrestlingtrue. SNW and LD are best trek now.

[@jokerinthebronx]

Odo dominated that link with her. Throughout all of DS9, the Female Changeling seemed to be the strongest. I can imagine the conversation between these two during the link. He agreed to cure their people, but she's totally submissive when Odo was finished. I love how the Changeling they cast aside, even taking away his powers for a time, became the savior of their entire species. I was so proud of the whole crew here.

[@itsOasus]

My personal belief was that the events of Broken Link were never meant to be an eternal punishment. My feeling is that once enough time had past, the Founders let loose the baby changeling that came into Quark's possession in The Begotten as a form of test to see how he would treat it. And we know what happened after. The Begotten is actually one of my favorite episodes.

[@deaddropsd1972]

I wish there was a 4 screen shot including Romulan & Cardassian reps

[@brianvincentdoucet4273]

Agreed.

[@AximandTheCursed]

They were already straining their budgets at this point, but yes, it would have added so much, especially since the Cardassians would have been champing at the bit to stop the slaughter, and the Romulans would have needed to re-shuffle command due to their flagship being destroyed just in the battle prior.

[@danielweston9188]

Zoom doesn't work over subspace . . .

[@triptrip8353]

I wish Sela would have been the Romulan commander when the Romulans joined the federation and the Klingons in the war

[@pauljensen5699]

​@@triptrip8353 That would have been a massive win.

[@seanprater1795]

That line " your victory will be as bitter as defeat ..." Was to me the defining moment of that war !!!!

[@DayLenFemboyKing]

I always thought it'd be more impactful (no pun intended) if they actually showed some of the Dominion fleet firing on Cardassia Prime.

[@davesmith5482]

Probably but they just didn't have that kind of budget. Special FX, space battles and the like were much more time consuming and expensive in the 90s.

[@Delogros]

I was expecting to see some fires on the planet from cities being nuked, the ships don't need to be firing there is plenty of munitions planet side... but at least the casaulties sound correct, the big issue I had with babylon 5 was the humans where basically being slaughtered for 2 years and only suffered 250,000 casaulties, here in a day the Cardassians suffered 800 Million.

[@The_Greedy_Orphan]

It was a prime time TV show, so they couldn't show too much. I'm just glad Ira Steven Behr was able to write the show he wanted to and it was allowed to be as dark as it was. Best Trek show in my opinion.

[@brianc1812]

​@davesmith5482 Look at the cost for one season of The Acolyte and it was only 8 episodes. How many episodes was Picard? They can't do even a full season anymore like they did of DS9

[@Delogros]

@@brianc1812 They don't have the ability anymore particularly in the writers rooms.

[@nilocblue]

FULL respect to all the other OG Treks, but for me, DS9 Dominion war was PEAK Star Trek.

[@MadMax74656]

Imagine next Star Trek show about postDominion world...Alpha quadrant forces is still recovering...new alliance forming...Dominion in a state of chaos since their reputation as invincible force is shattered...Cardassia under Federation protection...Voyager is back home....Federation inspite heavy losses is expanding rapidly since it proove it can emerge victorious in hard conditions...Klingon empire still not stabile..Romulans too but glimpses of brighter future can be seen...Alpha quadrant is exhausted but Alliance between Federation-Klingon-Romulans in war prooved that peace and prosperity in our part of galaxy could be achieved.

[@scottv5162]

Its called "Lower Decks"

[@SolarDaisy]

Not really, aside from the fact it's gone in a completely different direction, it's set in the wrong time period​@@scottv5162

[@pawsomelabrastead9244]

@@scottv5162 Too bad they just axed that show, the best new ST since DS9.

[@pawsomelabrastead9244]

If only there were still legendary writers from this era.

[@ValiantWrestling]

That's where and 9th and 9th season of DS9 would've come in handy, instead of continuing on with that garbage Voyager...

[@echeaz]

I always wondered why the advanced civilizations in all sci-fi series always used vessels that use linear forms of travel. In this reality, the "tic tac" vessels move up, down and all directions and through rock and water nearly instantly. Would love to see a vessel like that introduced into any series.

[@Kawasatan]

Luckily the federation had a ferengi who thought about mines. genius.

[@a.ham.9856]

2:31 THE BEST line in Star Trek ever.

[@GrendelSheperd]

Not the greatest but it’s up there. IMHO

[@Citrakite]

The link works both ways and Odo needed her to see what he believed, how he believed it, and most importantly why this all work out for his people, for her to change his mind where words alone wouldn't work.

[@DiscoRaptor]

1:02... I kinda like the desaturation of the greens on the Klingon and Romulan warships... having them bright green like in TNG would've felt wrong for the grittiness of DS9...

[@RBAWintrow]

There were a lot of style choices made because of the limits of televisions at the time. Everyone stands way to close together, ships are brightly colored. And more.

[@LaurenceQuint]

Would have been better if if she said, "The Jem Hadar and the Breen will fight to the last." and then someone said, "Uh, actually the Breen are retreating." They didn't sign up to lose!

[@Gothic7876]

In the books, the Breen fuck off just as the Allied Forces arrive.

[@SantomPh]

@@Gothic7876 the shows and movies are the primary canon.

[@ValiantWrestling]

@@Gothic7876 the books aren't canon and we see Breen ships in the Dominion's defence perimeter and a couple of breen are present at the signing of the treaty of bajor

[@ValiantWrestling]

Nonsense, there are Breen ships in the fdleet at Cardassia when the alliance fleet arrives and there were Bren present during the signing of the treaty of bajor. Guess you must be blind.

[@JnEricsonx]

When Garak and Kira agree on something....

[@Reoh0z]

That time Kira and Damar were on the same side.

[@BGRANT777X]

Just remember that all this and going back to DS9 to sign the surrender took as long as Dukat and Wyn's hike to the fire caves.

[@Darrell9000]

DS9 was so cool!

[@ChrundleTGreat]

I always felt that had they broadcast the founder’s demise, the Jem H”Adar would’ve self deleted.

[@DavidKnowles0]

by ramming into Federation fleet of ships.

[@mcmanus260]

They would have thought it a trick.

[@DieselTechie-uo9we]

We've established from the beginning that rebelling or at least independent thinking Jem Hadar are not unheard of. It's dangerous to say they would commit seppuku instead of Kamikaze or forming another government.

[@PewKittens]

I love how without reading the description and only seeing the opening CG quality/style I was able to guess it was DS9

[@shaunpow8745]

I believe the moment odo linked with the female changeling, Odo let her know he was ready to return home to his people, in the great link. And in exchange she agreed to end the war. Also I believe Odo has a way to help the changelings in the great link understand solids better. So they no longer fear solids.

[@DraygaFlight]

He had spent some time as a "solid", so brought to them that understanding...

[@DisFantasy]

Odo is a drop in a giant bucket. There's billions of years of lived experience among the Great Link. Other Changelings have loved, feared, and hated Solids for longer than Odo has existed. He's going to make a small difference at best.

[@ValiantWrestling]

@@DisFantasy Yeah, that's what annoyed me, she'd linked with him several times before and it hadn't changed her opinion of solids, just seemed like a really quick and cheap way to end the war, probably because they had no budget left...

[@dragonchr15]

@@ValiantWrestling why is it so out of line that it was as simple as "i'll return to the link and cure the others but in exchange, you must surrender and stand trial for your war crimes." and she simply agreed because she clearly has a lot of respect for odo

[@SardonicALLY]

"We have known the bitterness of defeat and the exultation of triumph, and from both we have learned there can be no turning back."

[@MrNintoku]

What left of it. "O..Oh... Ohhhh you are dead you little weasel" Weyoun is shot. Before he dies weyoun hears Damars ghost say "Overconfidence. Hallmark of the Weyouns".

[@DutchGuyMike]

lmao

[@morrisanderson818]

We had great shows back then,good clean fun fantastic fantasy TV, Unlike the trash today,

[@kirkmcgirk86]

DS9 hit different 🔥

[@niceguy60]

3:10, the words you're looking for are Pyrrhic victory

[@gups4963]

Something the Russians are likely to get

[@alexshank1414]

When we destroy ourselves, there is no victor. Only death.

[@surfdocer103]

The audience would miss it

[@alexshank1414]

@@surfdocer103 Who’s the Audience?

[@Afr0Thund3r]

@@alexshank1414 You, me, anyone who can understand English? Pyrrhic is definitely a 10 dollar word lol, gonna fly over a lot of heads.

[@ChancreSaurusRex]

Would’ve been in line with the mystery of Garak’s character and an amazing deep cut if he had produced a Varon-T disruptor to personally dispatch Weyoun.

[@saiga5476]

But they probably would never have trusted him again.

[@quigonkenny]

"I was hoping you would say that..." Garak is the best.

[@rangaweerakkody165]

Kira should have told, "In that case we will hunt your kind, we will find the great link, and exterminate you", or "be my guest, your kind is already dead without our help"

[@Ryan_Winter]

My thoughts exactly, infected by an incurable disease, with at least one quarter of the entire galaxy's population out to finish you off for good. I think they got lucky that no-one thought to themself:" If I snuff that ship she and Odo is on I probably will die too, but it will wipe these monsters out for good."

[@datacipher]

@@rangaweerakkody165 ridiculous and silly. First the Federation wouldn’t hunt down a species for extermination - the founders know that, just as we the real fans know that, rendering the line laughable . Second, HER ENTIRE POINT was that the forces of the Alpha quadrant would be nearly wiped out themselves. How are they going to invade the Gamma quadrant? 😂😂😂. Sometimes thinking before writing is a good thing.

[@felkeyfelkey837]

​​@@datacipherwhy would the founders know that? The federation were the same faction that infected them with a first capable of causing their extinction. You can't even just blame it on section 31 when they clearly establish how many people at the highest levels of starfleet command were needed to execute the plan and cover it up.

[@michaelshirhall1831]

Barrels and barrels of 2309. Klingons must of brewed an entire planet that year cause they mention it all the time.

[@TheBigExclusive]

It was a good time to be a Klingon Blood Wine manufacturer.

[@Leondegrance2]

That's the main reason to expand the Empire, more bloodwine planets.

[@markfox1545]

'Must of'? What do you believe that means?

[@michaelshirhall1831]

@markfox1545 means I'm drunk on 2309 THERE IS NO FINER VINTAGE

[@wmst5065]

2309, wa' HovwI'vetlh

[@childrey14]

The whole production crew did incredible with DS9, The Next Generation, Voyager back then. Everything from scene setups to the ship battles. Especially considering the computers then were still slow compared todays.

[@DutchGuyMike]

Great writers/directors make for great shows.

[@ValiantWrestling]

Voyager? lmao nice joke. infact that entire series was one big joke, a waste of 7 seasons of money that could've been put into DS8's budget.

[@JohnZBaeZ]

The general public just don't know how great this battle is

[@benapfel8792]

To all who did not watch the show: After 7 seasons this scenes are over epic culmination of storylines.

[@jc441-i3q]

It would have been great if in the final stages of the war, when the Dominion and Cardassians were being encircled, smaller Alpha and Beta quadrant powers joined the Federation alliance against the Gamma quadrant invaders. This happened in the later stages of World War 2 when several formerly neutral countries, like those in South America declared war on Germany and Japan (when it seemed certain they were going to lose). It would have been interesting to see some of the many aliens we saw throughout TNG again - some had very formidable ships.

[@recon1055]

It's always highly insulting to have nations attempt to join you after the dying has already concluded and victory has been all but secured.

[@jc441-i3q]

@@recon1055 Not if they actually do something. If some Ferengis and their surprisingly powerful ships managed to destroy some Dominion vessels or those "Darmok" aliens fight some Breen, they should at least receive an invitation to the victory party.

[@bobbolondz2701]

I don't understand why the Breen would be so committed to fighting to the last man.

[@barbados3592]

they got a look at some old earth game called "warhammer 40k" and thought it was news reports about the Federation.

[@joejose8433]

Do you know what the joke is they never got a chance to become a box of his motion picture

[@chrisperlaky8715]

The Breen were shown to wear refrigeration suits, a metaphor of their cold, ruthless nature. They had a mutual understanding with the Dominion. They were all in -- cold and rigid like an ice cube... or a Borg Cube, undeviating. So the Breen embody the Founder's statement, "You may win this war... but when it is over you will have lost so many ships, so many lives, that your victory will taste as bitter as defeat." In contrast, the shape shifting process is symbolic of melting. So by offering the Female Founder forgiveness Odo symbolically melted away her coldness and opened her heart, which is why she chose to end the war. This is also why Odo returned to the Great Link, to heal his people from long standing wounds they'd internalized. Again symbolic of Star Trek favoring individualism and free choice over collectivism, that one man can make a difference (I'm admittedly channeling Knight Rider with that last statement).

[@DavidKnowles0]

No one does, it was never explained in the show. We just know they hate earth, no reason given. Nor do we know why they waited so long to join the war efforts.

[@vulkanofnocturne]

The Jem He'dar would fight on forever and the Breen seem like opportunists that would take advantage of that situation but I don't think they'd actual fight on indefinitely. She was bluffing with what she had I suppose.

[@jamesthomas1213]

Garak isn't scary when he's mad, Garak is scary when his smile fails to reach his eyes.

[@jwiese100]

2:15 overconfidence, the end of the weyouns.

[@ValiantWrestling]

Which is just stupid, the writers seemed to forget that the Dominion had cloning facilities in the Gamma Quadrant too, as well as Jem'Hadar Birthing chambers. Since you know, the Gamma Quadrant was their home territory.

[@johnpauljones9310]

She murdered millions, perhaps billions. Still, the Federation won't allow her to be put to death. Only in ST.

[@miwittwer]

And thats the right thing to do, otherwise this hatred against "solids" will be reignited

[@Matt-yg8ub]

Garrick and Kira break into their command center…. It seems like it takes five people to fight their way all the way to the founder…… but she would think that her room would have some shields or some better weaponry or there’d be seven or eight Jem Hadar in there cloaked prepared to shoot them in the back when they came through the door

[@jbz4788]

Weyoun sent most of the Hq garrison to assist with the whole slaughtering the Cardassians thing (he says so in an earlier scene)

[@captainfuture3754]

1:37 i love this col.kira's cold eyes.

[@johnsharnetsky9559]

Great writing, Bravo!

[@TheOmegaAlfa]

I’d like that Star Trek space battles are more like Ender’s Game ones.

[@greyofpta5305]

How to write a cosmically huge case of narrative blue balls in one montage of scenes.

[@tomb7942]

I always wondered why they alliance never went after the Breen territory.

[@dhinton1]

The Breen joined VERY late ..... and there was no strategic value in doing so during their stint in the war.

[@tomb7942]

@@dhinton1 Sure there was. Prevent them from sending forces to the Dominion, retaliate for the attack on Earth and make sure they don't do it again. Destroy their ability to wage war as well.

[@janwo]

too cold ;-)

[@ryanarment5393]

@@tomb7942the problem is that they had no intelligence on the breen. They had no information about their territory, their defenses, their fleet positions, the number of ships they had left, or even how quickly they could replenish the loses they suffered in the war. The federation and klingon fleets were heavily depleted. It was probably all they could do for quite some time to deploy enough ships to protect their own borders let alone launch any offensive operations. The romulans might have had enough resources but they were afraid of the breen.

[@tomb7942]

@@ryanarment5393 And doesn't all that seem odd? A not small empire on the Federation border that they know nothing about? But regardless, the Breen killed how many people in their attack on Earth? Why not divert forces against the Breen as soon as you are making headway against the Cardassians and have the wormhole secure? This would at least force the Dominion to divert forces to another front. The rest of your comment regarding available forces makes sense only in the ST universe which of course what we are dealing with. In real life, the Federation would outclass every other power combined simply by virtue of their size. Tens of trillions of people create a very large economy and scientific base with unlimited natural resources. Star Fleet should have had at least 250k ships during peace time, with secret bases and shipyards, especially after the Borg showed up. But lets not get bogged down with the lack of continuity, because that is Star Trek's claim to fame.

[@joellorne1126]

I LOVE BIG SPACE WARS❤❤❤

[@walther.laufer-68]

Returning Odo to the Great Link was worth more than the entire Alpha Quadrant

[@itsOasus]

Its what the Link wanted ever since the series began

[@walther.laufer-68]

@@itsOasus Absolutely. The female Founder said as much to Weyoun on the DS9 Promenade. Was a really superb show. Sadly we will not see the calibre of writing, story arc and character development again imo.

[@davidpickens8800]

thats the only cause he had the cure.

[@woodysmith2681]

Garak's killed before on the show and has initiated violence a number of times against Jem'Hadar. He also has killed off-screen as a saboteur and assassin, like most tailors do. However, trying to remember if he's ever openly attacked an unarmed person. A first "this was personal" kill?

[@itsOasus]

I would argue that him killing Entek in Second Skin was his first "this was personal" kill.

[@dragonchr15]

garak is a psychopath, a very high functioning one, in case it is not clear he would absolutely kill an unarmed person, even an innocent person, if it furthered his personal goals and ambitions…he would have killed ziyal without thinking twice if it was necessary to further his plans…

[@alexwest2514]

Poor Martok didn't get his battle

[@sadlerbw9]

True, but he got to live. Now he can endlessly grumble about how many more Dominion ships he could have destroyed if they hadn't given up, which is almost as good!

[@notcherbane3218]

The problem with the " victory is bitter as defeat is , who become subservient to the other who will write the history of the war after it is over that is the difference

[@peterthx]

Big rendering error in that planetary shot - the Dominion cruiser was meant to be behind the Battleship and not in front of.

[@davidnihil_]

Where?

[@peterthx]

@@davidnihil_ @0:48 - center right. Jem'Hadar cruiser should be under the Battleship. The Cruisers are massive on their own but going over the Battleship makes it look tiny.

[@ValiantWrestling]

@@peterthx That's because the Battleships in this scene were scaled up, they're not suppose to be the same size as the one in Valiant. Even the other Battlecruisers around Cardassia a vilibly smaller than those Battleships.

[@peterthx]

@@ValiantWrestling it's a rendering error. The VFX guys actually talked about it online on Usenet way back in the day in 1999. Things happen when you're trying to meet TV deadlines.

[@sammencia7945]

They left all the clues you needed.

[@scottrackley4457]

Garak was always my fave. Never sure, unless he was backing Bashir.

[@TrueLegateDamar]

It's kind of messed up they had the Romulans, who just lost their flagship, and the Cardassians who took the worst brunt of casualties of anyone in the war, to deal with the Jem'hadar who are the most numerous of the defenses.

[@tryscience]

And just like that, He Who Washes with Sandpaper, ends the war.

[@Edd25164605]

One thing that never made sense to me. The Dominion proper, is in the Gamma Quadrant. It would have been untouched by the war. Their industrial base, shipyards, weapon plants, and cloning plants..... All of it, still in working order, all of it presumably operating at peak efficiency for the whole war. So technically, The Dominion wasnt defeated Yet, that's never addressed ?

[@alfonszitterbacke318]

The Dominion was structured like a a bee hive, the Founders/changelings were infected with a deadly virus and without a cure for the leadership it would have been doomed right after the last Founder died. Maybe they would have given a final order to continue the war for all eternity untill the Federation is destroyed, similiar to the order the female changeling gave to destroy Cardassia. The moral question is: Was it right to sell the other races under Dominion rule for the well-being of the cardassian homeworld? They also did not mention any consequences for the Breen.

[@RBAWintrow]

The Prophets are refusing Dominion ships passage through the Celestial Temple. The Gamma Quadrant reinforcements will take 80 years to get to the Alpha Quadrant!

[@johncmeyer5832]

A little speculation. What would have happened if the Borg invaded the Gamma Quadrant? Would the Borg assimilate the Dominion, or would the Dominion have the strength to repel the Borg?

[@dragonchr15]

the borg would assimilate a few jem hadar and vorta and probably adapt to deal with them…

[@johncmeyer5832]

@@dragonchr15 Jem'Hadarr would make for good tactical drones. The Borg's interest in assimilating Vorta would be what the Vorta know about Dominion technology. One reason the Battle of Wolf 359 was such a major defeat for the Federation is that the Borg went into that battle knowing everything about Starfleet that Captain Jean-Luc Picard knew.

[@Not-Ap]

That is not the Borg's MO. They harvest technological/biological advanced pieces of larger potentially threatening borg ending empires to start. That could go on for decades or even centuries. The fact is they already have done this as Jem'Hadar drones were seen in Voyager. The reason being is to avoid the conflicts with species like species 8472 that was nearly wiping them out. The Federation even less advanced beat them off several times. The fact is they have other bigger fish to fry in the Delta Quadrant and perhaps Beta Quadrant like the Voth, Krenum, and now potentiality the resurgent Vaadwaur along with other unknown threats. They have probed the edges of Dominion Space though not seen in DS9 or potentially during the war in the Alpha Quadrant which is how they acquired the Jem'Hadar drones.

[@davidallbaugh6858]

Weyoun never knew when to keep his big mouth shut.

[@ai6894]

Now, that big mouth is open wide permanently. ☠️

[@TheBigExclusive]

I'm not entirely convinced the Federation could have won that battle. Their fleet looked pretty ragged and worn out. The Dominion fleet guarding the planet looked very impressive. Theres a good chance the Dominion could have won.

[@jaybee2402]

I just did a quick and dirty estimate, about 120 combined ships and platforms, most worryingly 3-4 of the massive ships of the class that tore apart the Valiant and the possibility they had corrected the platform's energy flaw the federation exposed at Chintoka. I agree it could have gone either way, but I also agree with the Foundress, it would have been bloody AF.

[@TheBigExclusive]

@@jaybee2402 - Personally, I want to believe the Orbital weapon platform's flaw was eventually fixed - especially when the Breen joined the Dominion. So The Federation Alliance only option was to destroy the platforms with brute force. Just smash through. Maybe it required sustained fire from multiple ships working together to destroy a single one? That's why they needed an entire fleet just to destroy just the platforms. Or the alternative is to keep sending ships until the platforms ran out of ammo. Lol. Which is funny and very costly.

[@hawkstringfellow]

Woren out Starfleet had excelisors and reliant class ships on the front line they had no choice better be glad odo was kool but I would have liked to see that battle for cardassia

[@brianvincentdoucet4273]

In MY opinion, the Federation-Klingon-Romulan alliance had a better chance of success when the Cardassians switched sides. Hey, surprises happen.

[@dhinton1]

even if the Federation/Klingon/Romulan/Cardassian armada had managed a draw ...... the Dominion and Breen still lose the war. but, the Alpha Quadrant definitely loses in the long run. ultimately, Odo saved everyone. even those who intentionally created the disease intent on eliminating the Founders.

[@DjRenect]

I would love a full 4K remaster

[@stephandolby]

Those battleships, like the one that tore the Valiant a new one as well as the Regent's Negh'Var, were hugely over-scaled to make them look extremely threatening. Even so, they're going to munch through Alliance ships whatever size they are rendered. Also, the weapon platforms are interesting - do they have their own internal power source this time? I imagine the Federation already has any remote power source targeted which would make for a rather swift win, but internal power might be a different challenge. I sure as hell wouldn't like being given the job of attacking something that can fling 1,000 torpedoes and some rather deadly disruptors back at me.

[@ValiantWrestling]

I thought their power source would've been located somewhere on Cardassia. Sure they wouldn't make the same mistake of having it on another asteroid...

[@bensisko4651]

Weyoun had a BIG mouth lol😂😂😂😂🖖🏾

[@ripstake]

I really wish I could have gotten into DS9.

[@dragonchr15]

martok acting like he’s about to have sex with his lifelong sexual fantasy crush in her prime!!😂😂

[@Xirowolfe]

Salome Jens does an amazing job as the female changling.

[@ericstanke3291]

"I will do no such thing"..."OK, then after we're done here we will wipe out the Breen, the Jen Hadar and you".

[@RurouniKalainGaming]

It always seems so odd to me that she surrendered so easily however after years of thinking about it I realized that it simply because he showed her that he doesn't need have the Cure and all she ever cared about is her people and as long as he convinced her that he wouldn't be delivered a cure to them then she's like yeah. Sure. Whatever. That's what's the most important because otherwise they're dead. Kind of admirable in that Twisted way she really did care about her people more than anything else. However that blinded her to anything else.

[@SantomPh]

when they linked he shared what is probably an entire season's worth of explanation and convincing in one psychic link.

[@stargazer7644]

Don't assume it was easy. You don't know how long and involved that conversation was in the link.

[@TheOneUK1111]

25 years later and I only just released that the Founder addressed Kira as "commander" instead of Colonel....??

[@davidkerk5676]

I would have taken a cloaked ship deep into Dominion territory and deployed beacons that summoned the Borg earlier in the war.

[@corberus3119]

just what starfleet needs borg with changeling drones that can look like anyone

[@davidkerk5676]

@@corberus3119 Team Borg!!

[@davidkerk5676]

@@stargazer7644 haha dam auto correct never noticed

[@Isaacisaperson4677]

That's a terrible idea

[@ValiantWrestling]

You do know the Dominion has Anti-Cloaking technology... This was already established in The Search and Once More Unto The Breach.

[@fedr39]

Got to love the comments on here saying this was peak Star Trek. Let's not forget that DS9, the concept, character names, and space station, was totally stolen from Babylon 5. Proven fact as Jay Michael Strazynski said in an interview. One of his co-producer's took it.

[@PtolemyCeasar]

Never underestimate the Federation.

[@cameroncunningham204]

“It will be a glorious battle”

[@hirmor666]

"Today is a good day to die"

[@NeverWokeNotASoiBoy]

And this everyone, is why modern Trek has died. This showed the best of Trek, that in adversity, the ideals of the federation always prevail, that forgiveness trumps hatred.

[@Vector_Ze]

Yeah, Trump destroyed Star Trek. Unless you never were a MAGAt. Or a fan of JJ Abrams, which is the same thing from a Star Trek franchise perspective.

[@NeverWokeNotASoiBoy]

@@Vector_Ze what on earth does trump have to do with this? It's the adem voting story writers, producers and directors who created this mess. This is from a Brit.

[@Vector_Ze]

@@NeverWokeNotASoiBoy My connection is the action style of Abrams with the pseudo bully mindset of Trump. IMO, Abrams ruined ST.

[@NeverWokeNotASoiBoy]

@@Vector_Ze I have no idea how that comparison works really, the subject in this context is the abstract philosophy of the United Federation of planets, which i would propose was an optimistic utopian society, so given the subject and definition, my issue is that the series after Enterprise all moved away from that view of the subject and replaced it with a new paradigm, which was that of corruption and conflict. I really don't Abrams' behaviour as the issue but the content he produces, which in all fairness is garbage to me, sure maybe a younger audience loves this cr@p but not me.

[@ToesToJesus]

Ok, well, you, founder, can take the first long drink of that bitter cup? (Fires phaser on maximum).

[@samuelchappell7280]

I wonder. We learn on Picard that not all the changelings were found in the Alpha Quadrant after the Dominion War. Section 31's ideals as to protecting the Federation was valid, and this was evident when it comes to the Borg as well as the Dominion. The Federation's own short - sightedness delayed another tragedy in the making here.

[@leoperidot482]

Not sure why the Dominion surrendered. Plot hole. All they had to do retreat back to the delta quadrant. Strarflleet comes up with a new weapon. Dominion come up with a new weapon. We start the whole process all over again if the Federation enters the delta quadrant until one of them is destroyed completely. Humans in sci-fi shows seem to be only ones ingenious enough to create biogenic weapons against aliens....and yet aliens who can travel across galaxies, invade Earth somehow can't do the same. I take that back, BABYLON-5 did it. Aliens launched spores in Earth's orbit infecting every life. Rumors has it the aliens got help from a Chinese lab in Wuhan. Somehow humans can always adapt but aliens can't in sci-fi?

[@ValiantWrestling]

You mean Gamma Quadrant, that's where The main Dominion is locate.

[@tristanwhite3472]

The Federation suffered very badly against the Dominion and the Borg.

[@lexdavies3656]

Julian’s genetically enhanced friends got the dominion war all wrong, they never predicated the cardassians turning or the war finishing early. Good job Sisko didn’t listen to them

[@ValiantWrestling]

That's why he's ""The Sisko".

[@One-Two-T]

I tried to get in to this show but didn't get far. Glad to see some people love it.

[@mattwho81]

Did the Dominion win? I mean they left the Alpha Quadrant in ruins. Klingons, Cardassians and Federation were broken by war. The Romulans were best off but had learned to keep out of Gamma Quadrant. If the Dominion’s goal was to keep the Gamma Quadrant secure from outside influence they kinda achieved their goal.

[@alexiachimciuc3199]

we will never surrender...ok we will surrend 🤷

[@bloodred255]

what did he do, physically change her mind?

[@alexiachimciuc3199]

@@bloodred255 ah that? no he agreed to return to his people and heal them.

[@donaldbadowski290]

When someone tells you "I know what I'm doing", they don't know what they're doing.

[@tristanwhite3472]

Heavy Losses even more heavy Losses against the Dominion I think.

[@gw7624]

Still peak Trek.

[@mattakins3422]

Did I see a few Scimitars?