Star Trek The Next Generation Ruminations S4E19: The Nth Degree

[@tougheddie7297]

How the hell has your channel not got more views, your reviews are close to perfection. Yours views are clear and normally right on the button. I don't always agree but you don't become Mr Angry or Mr shout my month off, I like that. Other channels have started program reviews, it's normally a painful watch. Slow, ramdom or a frame by frame breakdown that ends up making you wounder if the person enjoys trek. Speak your mind I enjoy it. I digress.

[@TheMusicalGameroriginal]

Lore (or Arch) is like that. I also find it strange his channel has never really taken off. But I kind of consider him a diamond in the rough that a chosen few get to enjoy.

[@alexandert.9139]

What did you digress from?

[@oddish4352]

Barclay's tech, or a variant of it, WAS used again. Indeed, it very nearly blew the Enterprise to bits. In "Hero Worship", Geordi was going to transfer warp power to the shields, presumably the same way Barclay did.

[@RavenheartIndustries]

I think we may have a new loreisim. Batl'ething (verb): to mindlessly attack someone or something when it is obviously going to fail spectacularly.

[@paulscott2037]

Was looking forward to your thoughts on this one. I gotta say I think Frakes nails so many scenes in this one. You mentioned him asking Troi about the pass at her but I also want to point out the bit where he goes up to Barclay and genuinely in a very friendly manner asks how he saved the ship before and just nods politely at the explanation that is completely beyond him. It's just a fun little moment really works well I think. As for the Cytherians, I don't think you're wrong but for sure I suspect they are rather harmless. Despite the obvious rewriting of the episode I think there is a degree of sense to be made from it. First the probe finds computers and lifeforms to scan and impart it's data to, in part for information but also to work out how evolved a species is. Then it attacks, to see if the species they are investigating is risk to them. Even with the probe destroyed they'd probably get data on the type of weapons and power output being used and such. Then a that point the person implanted with their virus or whatever you want to call it endeavours to either modify the ship to take it to them or possibly to send the data in a different way. The benefit of using a living mind is that it can make those sorts of assessments where it can ascertain the possibilities and capabilities available and take action. In Barclay's case the Cytherians just got lucky that the Enterprise had the option to take the crew to them there and then.

[@catchifyoucan232]

I LOVE Barclay, he’s my FAVORITE TNG character!!! I seem to remember him in an episode where he de-evolves (or Is it devolution/devolves?) into a spider!!! Haha, so cool. Lorerunner, you really are the best! You’re so smart and so insightful when it comes to these reviews! Even the tone and timbre of your voice is PERFECT!! You really cheer me up/make my day with your videos!!!

[@SchneeflockeMonsoon]

My headcanon for the probe going after the Enterprise is as a safeguard. It identified that the program was aboard a ship, and it could potentially be lost. The probe is expendable now, the program is not. So it acts as a potentially hostile entity to ensure the ship focuses on it rather than the plant. Imagine if a Klingon ship had picked up a shuttle with a messed up code. If they have to shoot at something, they might leave it be a little longer than it would take to jump to the ship, as opposed to wiping it. In terms of the “super shields”, I like to think they integrated that function into the new anti-Borg fleet as a way to run that level all the time. I instantly thought about Year of Hell when he said he set the deflector to the inverse of the shield harmonics, making me think that became standard. On the “super warp”, I like to think Barclay made a stargate with subspace. He couldn’t actually move the ship with what he had available, but he could make a doorway that the floaty heads could open, and then the enterprise can just go back. I like to think those aliens actually *are* the same species as the One from STV. These ones are just better at being evil and manipulating the flies they grab. Also, I love the idea they grabbed a Borg ship and that’s when the Borg started building transwarp hubs. “Bipedal locomotion? Nanotechnology cell upkeep? Assimila- ASSIMILATION?! NO! Send them ba- resistance is futile.”

[@athrunzala6919]

The entire fleet can now have shields at 300% now whether Barcley remembers or not, the computer logged the keystones of everything he did to make it happen, right? He advanced Fed tech in a day, the Dominion should have been pushovers during the war.

[@oddish4352]

Maybe if he hadn't done all this, the Dominion would have stomped the Federation flat as pancakes almost immediately. Barclay's modifications gave them a fighting chance.

[@Mulberry5]

I’m amazed that race hasn’t pulled the Borg yet.

[@francoislacombe9071]

Since the Borg are all linked together in a Collective, reprogramming one would possibly reprogram them all, which means the entire Collective would end up on the Cytherian's doorstep. That could be really interesting, an epic "Oh shit!" moment. 😂

[@andrewkyriacou6405]

So I've mentioned before that when I watch your rumination I usually have to look up the title to know which episode this is but there's a select few episodes where the title is enough for me to remember. This is one of them. I do enjoy this episode, probably mainly because it's a Barclay episode. So the probe seems quite consistent to me even with the rewrite. Its mission is to go out into the galaxy and reprogram people, things, whatever to get them to come back to the Cytherians to 'explore them'. So it's just going to chase down whatever it finds until it can accomplish its goal of doings it reprogramming burst thing. The only reason it's seen as a threat is because that's a bad thing for the Enterprise, the probe is basically just the annoying guy on the street who tries to hand out free newspapers or magazines to anyone who passes by. As for why Barclay is a threat that never felt like it needed explaining to me. To my mind their objections are simply: they can't have a ship computer that has a mind of its own. Even if Barclay hadn't yet done anything to make them distrust him he's still a mind of his own. They need a ship's computer to do what its told. While I'm sure there would be many benefits to having a super Barclay be the computer there is the issue that Picard is basically no longer in command. Even Barclay isn't being evil I get the impression that basically Barclay will never do anything Picard orders if Barclay doesn't feel like it's the right thing to do. There's circumstances where this would cause issues too. >What if they had to do a saucer separation? I have to imagine if Barclay's mind is growing he'd effectively be cutting his brain in two unless he's only in the computer core and not throughout the whole ship in which case it'd be more like cutting a limb off for him. >What if the ship is disabled and they want to set the auto-destruct and abandon ship, I expect Barclay would object to that too. There's just too much uncertainty in this situation. The only way I could see this working is if Starfleet basically gave the Enterprise to Barclay and everyone else left and/or a new crew who were basically just there to be Barclay's maintenance crew were put on. We all know that's not going to happen.

[@Ozzy_2014]

There's actually 2 novels. One TOG one STNG where the concept of a pilots brain being wired into the ship itself is seen. One an alien ship from another universe in the nexus. The 2nd novel has Picard's brain and only his brain wired into the Enterprise. There's no crew just him. That's in Q&A . horrifying concept really.

[@lightsabermetrics]

I'm a bit surprised that you didn't mention Ron Jones's excellent score to this episode, especially since it was the second to last episode Jones did for TNG. I assume you'll be discussing Jones and Rick Berman when you get to The Drumhead. I'll have my popcorn ready to go for that rant. You're one of the only people I've seen review TNG and regularly give Ron Jones props for his music.

[@kingloucifur8086]

My headcanon as to why the probe follows the Enterprise, this being my first viewing of the episode, is twofold. For one, it could be that the probe's programming doesn't necessarily stop at reprogramming one piece of technology or entity at a time, and that it was trying to either reprogram the Enterprise itself or the people on board, following the closest signatures it had. Or instead, it could be that after having reprogrammed Barclay, maybe it either didn't complete its reprogramming of him, or followed him to verify the results. It could be that it wasn't a threat at all, but of course it was perceived to be.

[@corssecurity]

TOS First Federation was never seen or heard from again either. Starfleet sent an ambassador but if he ever returned he either had nothing noteworthy to show for it or hasn't returned.

[@Eric_Hutton.1980]

I just watched this episode. At the end I got a slight Star Trek V: The Final Frontier vibe just for a second or two.

[@Eric_Hutton.1980]

The National Guard of explorers.

[@quasimodojdls]

"Hey, look, the (insert any Senior Staff member here) is acting completely out of character." "Yeah, that's nice. Feel like having tacos for lunch today?" "Hey, look, the junior engineer with social anxiety issues is acting slightly more confident." "OMG! Something odd is definitely going on. This needs to be dealt with NOW!!!!" I kid, I kid. Just to add to the praise of Schultz's acting.... the scene in the holodeck where he tells Picard that he can't disconnect from the computer. Even though Schultz does voice-over work in that scene, most of his acting is done non-verbally. Just his flicking of his eyes back and forth between Picard and Worf makes the scene ultra-creepy. The man is an amazing actor! The only thing that rubs me the wrong way is the scene between Barclay and Einstein. Grand unification theories are way over LaForge's head? Huh?! This guy is the Chief Engineer of the most advanced ship that Humanity has ever produced - a ship that travels by distorting the very fabric of the space-time continuum. He also lives in a civilization where advanced calculus is taught to freaking 4th graders (a.k.a. - 10 year olds!). Shouldn't that "stuff" be second nature to him?

[@athrunzala6919]

This episode is a true Jewel amongst the series

[@fredrikcarlstedt393]

Where no Barclay has gone before .

[@politicalnerdV]

I actually didn't see Barclay as being arrogant when he was interfacing with the computer. I didn't hear any superiority or condescension in his voice. I think it was, well, rude honesty...

[@sharkdentures3247]

Loved the video. Agreed with practically every point. MOSTLY, the whole 'tech jump' stuff never being used again - being ridiculous. I mean seriously, Starfleet vessels (already shield/defense-centric) being able to TRIPLE their shield strength!?!?!? And the only price is you are restricted to impulse speeds? (NO warp) That would be AWESOME! And it would blunt 70% of the threats in the alpha/beta quadrants. They should have warped back to Earth IMMEDIATELY and transmitted the specs to the 'science center'. (even if they don't understand HOW it works - now, they will figure it out sooner or later.) Oh, and I kinda liked the Sitherians, if only for the novelty. And they are interesting take on a different but similiar 'federation' mindset. (i.e. exploring) My head cannon for WHY they do things the way they do can be summed up in two words. . . .THE. . . .BORG!

[@subraxas]

The thing with the overpowered, (potentially) friendly species in Star Trek never appearing again is unfortunately very common. Another example is the First Federation or Aldeans (S1 of TNG; kidnapped some children from ENT-D). If I remember it correctly, it was directly said on the episode that the Aldeans were technologically ahead of the UFP by some 400 years, but later, during the problems with the Borg or the Dominion War, no-one from the Starfleet obviously bothered to pay them a visit and ask them to help out at least a little bit.

[@mr51406]

Cyrano de Bergerac is an inspired choice. He does indeed fit the role of the geek with a beautiful mind; Barclay is definitely a Cyrano character. Cyrano actually did exist in real life (his life was the inspiration for Edmond de Rostand’s play), and the real Cyrano (1619-1655) is arguably the inventor of the science-fiction genre. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comical_History_of_the_States_and_Empires_of_the_Moon

[@xellestar]

We've definitely seen them before! the guy at the end of star trek v was undoubtedly a cytherian

[@Ozzy_2014]

He was THE ONE! Claims to have to invented Monotheism. A humorless jealous angry being. Served 0! In the Q-space trilogy. Helped to destroy the T'kon empire.The Q decapitated him and imorisoned him behind the barrier.

[@kitbashbob6426]

I think the probe went after the Enterprise because the probe was designed to rewrite every object in it's vicinity. Reprograming Barkley wasn't enough. The probe would keep reprograming everything in it's area until there was nothing else.

[@williamozier918]

Head Cannon explosion 2: A) People always think that the Borg must have found Voyager 6 and re-made it into V'Ger. It actually makes more sense if you theorize it was Citherians. According to Star Trek: The Slow Motion Picture Voyager was sucked into what 20th century scientists called a black hole. However a Cytherian wormholey thing could be mistaken for a black hole. B) Where else have we ever seen a big floating head that reaches across the universe and draws people to it? Can I say Star Trek V? Perhaps it wasn't god, it was an exiled Cytherian. C) Then finally first contact is properly made in this episode. CONCLUSION: This episode is the conclusion to the Cytherian Trilogy, a plot line that bridge the gap between TOS and TNG.

[@athrunzala6919]

As for the Sytherians, I've often wondered, have they met everyone in the galaxy and shared info with them? The Borg, Vedians and Dominion. In the game Civilizations, you head up the International Congress when you are the first to discover all players in the game, will the Sytherians be the first to encounter every race in the galaxy? Will they be the political centre of a space UN for our galaxy that every comes too and negotiates treaties and research proposals?

[@DrewLSsix]

There's so many things in trek that almost hurt to ponder the implications of. Are there currently whale probes checking in on other planets all across the galaxy? What If any encounters have the likes of the Borg had with the MANY God like beings that populated the TOS era? What happens if a Borg cube goes through the galactic barrier and a bunch of the drones suddenly develop God like powers? What If the Borg find the God like thing at the center of the galaxy? If time travel is as easy as accidentally whipping around a star just wrong why haven't most races figured this out? Why haven't the Romulans used time travel to their ends as they absolutely would do. If the machine planet gave one lost random probe such enormous resources to finish its mission why are they JUST a planet of machines? The contraption they built dwarfed their entire civilization. Why aren't there countless such empowered probes backtracking through the galaxy to their respective homes? If there are at least half a dozen well established planets that basically cure everything and grand immortality... why is Risa the go-to vacation spot? And why does anyone ever live with anything remotely debilitating? Why is earth always a day or so from the frontier?

[@neuroairman]

20:51 "A contiguous external integument; which usually applies to plants." (Humans aren't known for having skin, right) Made me laugh with that one, Lore

[@wpsam52]

Enjoyable analysis. Glad I found your channel.

[@damastamindz]

I always thought when I was younger that the Cytherians were energy beings and that's why they don't explore 'manually' by themselves. Perhaps the Floating Head was projected to make the humans comfortable? If a klingon ship was taken then the Head would have been Klingon like?

[@chrislane481]

did anyone else get a HAL 9000 vibe from Barclay at one point?

[@EnvisionerWill]

"Integument" is a perfectly appropriate word for skin, I don't know where you got the idea that it was plant-specific. And I'd imagine that the Cythereans are more than capable of dealing with any hostile threat they ever pull in, other than maybe the Borg. It's possible that the probe has some restrictions on what it's allowed to reprogram - in fact, it's entirely possible that the reason it went for Barclay was not just the simple accident of proximity, but specifically the fact that he's a very harmless and innocuous person. This might be the same reason the probe camped on the Argus Array, and presumably ignored various Romulan and Cardassian snoops that happened by, because the Cythereans told it to only fetch species that were peaceful and personable.

[@Tuvok_Shakur]

Armchair explorers lol, that gave me a chuckle

[@williamozier918]

Alright two head cannon explosions: 1) This one just occurred to me reading the comments. People point out here that Barclay increased the shields 300%, and if so then how come the Federation doesn't do this to all their ships? Well, then we come to Weyoun's quote in Call to Arms, "Impossible. Federation shields have always proven useless against our weapons." Dukat's response, "I've found it wise never to underestimate the Federation's technical skill or Captain Sisko's resourcefulness." I leave it to your own head cannon to fill in the blank.

[@politicalnerdV]

I think the cytherians are unintentionally evil. Their actions are evil, but they're just not thinking about the effects their actions are having.

[@AdamCollings]

Totally agree with your end card. Barclay is awesome.

[@brightphoebesays]

I just watched this episode last night and wanted to know what a psychologist would make of Barclay's mental transformation, if this is indicative of any particular psychiatric condition. Grandiose narcissism? Cause it seems to spell something out about the human psyche. (love your starry background and pin btw) I always look for the psychology behind the episodes. The threat of Barclay becoming the computer is to the chain of command, and only that, the militant hierarchy of the Federation. There are other episodes where this is spelled out. It was the way things were done at the time the episodes came out. All that has been questioned now. We probably wouldn't have even noticed it in 1991, like we didn't notice Deanna's cleavage. You wouldn't get that now. What? A skirt?! On the bridge!?! When you get so deep into a series that you notice the cracks/plot holes, I use them as flags to remind me that it's not real, and wonder if the writers didn't put them in there on purpose to keep us grounded. But maybe I overthink these things. I like the Cytherians. That was an amusing, and interesting plot twist. I liked it that they turned out to be benign after all, unlike the borg. The last line makes me chuckle, "I didn't know you have dandruff." "I don't!". lol (Old head and shoulders commercial.) And how they act at the end there is on character for them, as opposed to how they treat blue uniform Picard in Tapestry, like a hopeless grunt far beneath them. That's not on character.

[@francoislacombe9071]

Three things. First, the probe tries to reprogram the Enterprise after it reprograms Barclay because that's what it's programmed to do, reprogram the things and people it encounters. I don't think there's anything in its programming that would tell it to stop after an initial success. Second, the probe has been sitting on the Argus array for two months after it failed to reprogram it. Why? Shouldn't it have moved on in search of other items to reprogram by now? Third, why was the Enterprise sent to investigate the array? That looks like a very complex and specialized piece of technology, who must need a team of engineers specifically dedicated to its operation and maintenance, so why weren't those guys sent to the array to find out what happened?

[@mattthericker]

How does Barclay go to the bathroom when he is the Computer?

[@francoislacombe9071]

He probably designed the chair he is in to handle those mundane physiological functions. 😉

[@quasimodojdls]

How does anybody go to the bathroom since this universe apparently has no toilets?

[@grantlloyd9131]

And the borg, you can just imagine what would happen then.

[@RegBeta]

They would literally become Gods, assuming the Q don't stop them before encountering them.

[@kardy12]

Your analysis is otherwise spot on, but I don’t quite see why you are puzzled Barclay becomes a threat when he merges with the computer and effectively takes control of the ship. At that point the chain of command is broken. I can’t imagine if someone taking control of a US aircraft carrier, for example, from its captain and crew would not automatically be considered a threat.

[@Eric_Hutton.1980]

The Final Frontier of TNG.

[@corssecurity]

Khan! Stronger smarter /augments? Q? Trelane? Kevin, Flint, the Kevins? It's not a question of whether or not you are paranoid but are you paranoid enough.

[@gunja556]

I think this episode could have been a bit better if the big heads were the bad guys and what was happening to Barclay was actively harming, maybe this interlinking with the computer was destroying his mind and making him more machine-like, or something

[@authbrannon]

You really don't see what the issue is with a ship that the computer is a human with emotions and is already at the minimum starting to develop hubris and as time goes on will turn in to terror as it feels insignificant small minded humans are always controlling and commanding? 😳😳😳

[@harpercole5321]

I guess the Cytherians aren't that different from the guys in "Allegiance" - not quite getting that what they're doing is immoral. At least their victims get something in reward at the end. I'm not sure about the efficacy of recreating Albert Einstein on the holodeck. The computer has access to his recorded knowledge, but not to his creativity, so it feels a little pointless. A pretty good Barclay vehicle, anyway. I wonder whether it really was mate in nine at the end?

[@Lobster48418]

Armchair explorers lol

[@RegBeta]

I think the reason why no one has heard of these aliens or there technology is 2 words for y'ah.....SECTION 31.

[@firepowerg]

The Klingons wouldn't get that far would they? They'd kill the affected crew member as soon as it became apparent they were acting up. #KZbinPedantry!

[@rpra6435]

And again, I found myself in total opposition to our wonderful Lorerunner. Later I will TRY to explain why. Soo what I feel ? This episode is for me one of those that I always avoid when returning to TNG, and the figure of Reginald Barclay arouses extremly negative emotions on me as much as the figure of Troi’s mother. I just cannot stand this both characters. This episode for me is in the category "never watch again" as it is completely stupid from very beginning. Why is it like that ? The concept around which this figure was based is very interesting. However, everyone forgets about one, including Lorerunner. Regardless of who would try to defend what concepts - the truth is that the Enterprise is the flagship in star fleet, which one of the goals is also simply being a ... big warship. On the most important warship, an important function is a man with mental problems such as Barclay? Is this a joke? In my opinion, with Barclay they wanted to create an interesting, psychological theme, tailored to the ambitious cinema that TNG has always been, but this one detail always made me laugh - admission to the flagship warship of the interstellar fleet person like Barclay is just ridiculous to me. If someone tries to defend this decision by stating that in our day people like him are sometimes captains of big passenger ships an makes crushes like near Italy it was … - I will say that the series is happening many hundred years ahead, and because it is a federation of many planets - there are more people to choose from. There really was no one more mentally controlled than Barclay for his position ?? Even in "our times" you have doctors trying to assest your emotional state when you want to be pilot of big plane or somethiing ... In my country, if you want to have driving licence you have basic medical analisis. Come one ... no one like Barclay can be in military in FLAGSHIP OF STAR FLEET !! I also understand Barclay in the headquarters, in an important position, but on a warship, flagship ?? This episode for me is in the category "never watch again".

[@lightsabermetrics]

The Pensky File's discussion on this episode had raised the same question you did over how Barclay had ever been assigned to the Enterprise in the first place. While I agree it's a fair question, it wasn't enough to ruin the episode for me. In fact, this episode has always been among my absolute favorites of TNG episodes. It could have been Riker-centric or maybe Crusher-centric, but it made dramatic sense to write the episode around Barclay. No other character would have been as radically changed by exposure to the probe as Barclay was. It was anti-climactic, but many other TNG episodes had endings that were just as rushed.

[@Ozzy_2014]

Problems? Lack of condidence. Possible asperger's. Your bigotry is dusgusting. 2nd Enterprise is not a warship. Its a exploration vessel. Barclay was a scientist at the Daystrom insitute and recruited into Starfleet. He is a diagnostic.engineer. Brilliant thinker and unique viewpoints are welcomed. He is not being considered nor does he want to be on the command track. His brillance and competence show once he got comfortable. In the new environment he was unsettled. It takes time to get comfortable. Once he did, his brillance shines through. His work in creating a sentient hologram, then creating the cross galaxy communication network that was Pathfinder's purpose. Then a transporter capable of beaming across the galaxy. Things only advanced races have done. The Aegis ( Gary 47's boss', Borg, Tri-Skellions. To name 3. A human did that. Not augmented either. Not a cyborg. Not alien possesed. Not an Augment from the past. A human with issues. How about a little respect. Captain Montgommery Scott of S.C.E. chose the man to run engineering on his flagship when he had to turn command to Captain of Engineering ( 2nd one behind Scotty himself to hold the rank) Geordie LaForge. The man is a stone cold genius held back by social anxiety and self doubt. Given encouragement and oppurtunity he thrives!