Star Trek The Next Generation Ruminations S4E23: The Host

[@mr51406]

The only way to explain it is that the Trill are 3 species: the worms, the “bumpy” humanoids with whom the worms have a very parasitic relationship that they keep secret, and the “spotted” humanoids with whom it’s symbiotic and open. That could have been admitted by Dax in one line of dialogue. In fact that would have made an interesting twist in the episode where Jadzia “meets” Dax’s previous hosts. One of them could have been one of the “bumpies,” and they could have retold how terrible it was for them.

[@grumpyotter]

I love this one for one reason--Frakes' performance. He is brilliant as Odan.

[@joluoto]

This is a little different than the blue gills? Is it though? The Trills in this episode are Goa'uld, while the Trills in DS9 are Tok'ra.

[@IdiotCinema]

Hey Lore, found you a few months ago through a comment on an RLM Discovery video. I really love your ruminations, thanks for the uploads. Also, my new favorite part of any of your videos is here, at 9:45, when you discuss the music of this episode. So good. Da da da dum...

[@subraxas]

The retcon they did on DS9 with the Trills creates another continuity problem nobody seems to mention here. The "new" Trills look identical to the previously established Kriosians. Why? They just couldn't come up with a new design for a near-human humanoid?

[@danielyeshe]

Or they could have had Dax be one of them.

[@Eelco_de_Boer]

Mem-summary: A Trill ambassador is on board to mediate a dispute, and falls in love with Dr. Crusher. When the Trill host is killed, the symbiont has to be temporarily joined to Commander Riker to continue the negotiations - and the affair. (well, the episode exists, could be worse...)

[@quasimodojdls]

Why does Trek (and not just TNG; this will also happen on later shows) think it's okay to rape men? As another commenter has already pointed out, this is the second time Riker has been raped in this very season alone (and only eight episodes apart!). Just reverse the sexes here. Imagine if you will that Odan was originally female and had a fling with Riker. Crusher then volunteers to save the symbiont, has her personality completely enveloped and Riker jumps into bed with her without any thought (by ANYONE!) for how Crusher feels about it. The condemnation would swift and brutal - and RIGHTLY SO! At least this time it's not played for laughs like "First Contact" did (and later episodes will). So, what, is that supposed to be progress?

[@shootingreal5945]

You make good points..why is this just glossed over. I dont get it.

[@ieatvirgins]

Don't most shows and movies still think that?

[@AunCollective]

I look forward to the TNG and DS9 videos every week. Thanks for another entertaining one.

[@andrewthorne3570]

On the topic of Starfleet not having medical information on the Trill, the Vulcans are one of the core members of the UFP and no one knew about the Pon-Farr until Spock had to deal with it. Even then it seemed that no one on the Enterprise told anyone else about it because it still seemed relatively unknown by Voyagers time

[@danielyeshe]

Well that would come under a Doctor's confidenceality. And maybe Vulcans usaly book leave at that time.

[@GreenCauldron08]

10:04 That sounds so funny without context

[@steakman1989]

They are the Trill though, Star Trek retcons things all the time.

[@kitbashbob6426]

Since Riker joined with the symbiote would he be called William Odan?

[@ohgoditshimrun1346]

The transporter problem was always heavily implied to be a matter of keeping the secret a secret. But other than that, you are entirely correct.

[@dirtywashedupsparkle]

Not likely to see good music comments now that this is the post-Ron Jones era.

[@danielyeshe]

I don't understand why they didn't make Dax a different species either. With all the humanoid races they have I think the Trek-verse could handle two joined species. As to the change in the Klingons, the first time, that I understand as they were a big part of TOS.

[@subraxas]

The retcon they did on DS9 with the Trills creates another problem nobody seems to mention here. The "new" Trills look identical to the previously established Kriosians. Why? They just couldn't come up with a new design for a near-human humanoid?

[@WhiteScarsEmo]

9:50, "And thus we now introduce the musical event portion of our programming..." :-) Any chance of karaoke in a future segment?

[@StefanTravis]

I've a sort of headcanon about the TNG Trill vs the DS9 Trill. The symbiotes can join with many species - at least humanoid ones. With the host species on the Trill homeworld, it results in a blending of host and symbiote. But with humans, the symbiote takes over. And with whatever species the host in this episode is, the symbiote takes over. Yes, the unnamed man Crusher crushes on is a host, but he's not from the Trill homeworld.

[@Species1571]

Wish I could do those silent sneezes.

[@DrownedInExile]

I was glad when the race-of-the-week Trill re-appeared in DS9. But holy continuity errors all over the place! Even back in the day, I didn't buy Odan's claim that "it never occurred to him" to tell Crusher he was a dual-being. Then there's the really uncomfortable question: if Odan was in full control of Riker, did he have the means to consent to sex with Crusher? Ouch. Definitely a much worse episode in hindsight.

[@EnvisionerWill]

The biggest argument against these Trill being used again is that their "parasite in total control" approach is the same idea as the Bluegills from "Conspiracy". I think I'd just rewrite this episode to use the real Trill and abandon the idea that Odan takes over Riker completely. If anything, it'd be more interesting to make it be Picard who hosts a Trill temporarily, and use that to intensify the quasi-romantic dynamic that Picard and Crusher have, and make it be canon that Picard is changed by the blending (to use the Tok'ra term from over on Stargate) even though it's so brief.

[@BriDog420]

I thought he was mimicking vomiting when he sneezed. Too bad.

[@jvzn]

I agree with you about the questionable morality of the host-parasite relationship. With nothing remaining of the host, you have to ask why they'd agree to it. I was wondering (before they showed the willing host at the end) if the parasites were actually forcing the hosts to accommodate them against their will. They could effectively farm the hosts on their planet and keep them in servitude/captivity until a suitable parasite became free. If the writers had chosen this route, it might have made for an interesting follow-up episode.

[@athrunzala6919]

Yup, that episode happened.

[@newfontherock]

Great review as always. Look forward to these every week. Not a great episode, but I think this awkward plot is salvaged by Frakes. The first act of the episode seemed like week one of a new relationship. And I think it asks a good question. How do we love? What if we can separate our body and soul? If we can, how far does that go? Like you said, typical Jeri Taylor stuff. With it being 2 poker buddies, that’s the awkward part, as good as the actors are.

[@jakem7666]

I'm happy that they changed the trill. Clearly this episode happens in an alternative reality, where the trill work different, created by Q or the prophets. Also I forgot about the transporter thing.

[@SchneeflockeMonsoon]

I like to think the Trill mass symbiosis problem from DS9 was starting to become an issue around now, and the Trill genetically engineered a race of “Hosts” which were basically braindead bodies, to try and reduce the desire to become a host normally, but the things were so delicate and poorly made that they broke down in months, couldn’t handle transporters, and more or less drove the Symbiont to irrationality or inanity over time. Just my headcanon.

[@radioflyer68911]

Of course every main cast's character has to have their one bad romance episode. If I wanted to watch a soap opera, I'd watch one. All the characters have to have their focal episodes because they are being paid big money to be there, and all these actors deserve to get to flex their acting chops on meaty scenes. And in Star Trek fanfilm, the Captain doesn't need to go on every away mission and you can have more background characters on the bridge with lines.

[@sarysa]

I think "parasite" might be an instance of the unreliable narrator. Beverly was simply never exposed to an internal symbiant before, and Odan was in no physical condition to split hairs.

[@Rasolisu]

Yeah these are different Trill. Tobin Dax was on Vulcan some time in the early 2200s. Emony Dax slept with McCoy way before TOS even started, possibly around around 2245. And I quote 'He was good with his hands'. Also Curzon was joined the year the Probe hit Earth of all things, 2286, and was at the Khitomer Conference in 2293... representing the Federation. And he was butting heads with Kang, Kor, and Kolath over Korvat years before and after that. With him being such a 'ladies man' he had to sleep with at least one Klingon... the Federation would have top tier med data on him at the very least due to that.

[@danielyeshe]

In one of the books, Forged in Fire I believe, it is said that the Klingon trio didn't know the truth of Cuzon's nature in the beginning.

[@AdamCollings]

It seems clear that the original intent of the writers was that the Trill on DS9 were the same race. There's even a picture of Terry Farrel in the original Trill makeup (theomegasector.com/index.php?/topic/19585-terry-farrell-in-original-trill-make-up/). The way I choose to look at it is simply that DS9 erased this particular episode from canon (which I'm actually ok with) but I suppose another race with the same name is a reasonable in-universe explanation. Perhaps both races are related and from neighbouring star systems and both their names translate into English as "Trill".

[@harpercole5321]

Maybe there's two races called the Trill, and it's just a big old co-incidence? Kind of a forgettable episode, as the RoTWs do tend to be. My main thought is the being a host is an extremely bad deal!

[@joluoto]

Yeah I understand why they changed the Trills. The original concept didn't really work well,except as a one episode thing never to be mentioned again.

[@nathanschultz5538]

The romance created discussion about lesbian and/or trans issues. You're 100% right about it having no story value for Beverley, like basically any one off love affair. I remember this causing a ruckus within my evangelical household and amongst some of my friends. Unfortunately, it falls short in any moral of the story sense too.

[@alonzomuncy6871]

What if it had been Troi who was smitten or Picard as Odnan? That would have shed so much more light on the characters.

[@nathanhines238]

This was the episode where the musical tone of the series changed.... and not for the better in any sense. The Rick Berman era of wallpaper music that would last for the next 14 years (Pandering, meandering, non-thematic, anti-climactic, sonic wallpaper with no emotional context at all). Ron Jones scored episodes in a style that evoked Jerry Goldsmiths TMP score in many ways. This made sense because of the use of TMP’s main title. He also had a good sense of how to use subtlety in music in a way that enhanced the emotional intent of each episode he scored. Even bad episodes were made better by his music. From season five onward we would never hear even a hint of the main theme again in an episode, let alone a recurring theme or even a leitmotif in this series ever again.

[@jeffreymiller9438]

I re-watched this recently. I think there is no way the ending would be written the way it was written in today's zeitgeist. The concept of Crusher rejecting a 'female' Odan would be anathema in today's Hollywood. What really would have been trailblazing would have been for the script to have Dr. Crusher maintain and avow her love, regardless of the host. That would have been the better ending: have her kiss the female Odan. It would have been national news. An opportunity lost. I would think that Dr. Crusher, who is consumed by her identity as a doctor and member of Star Fleet, would rarely encounter situations for intense relationships. Note she even rebuffed Picard's overtures. But the Trill seem to have a certain self-confidence and charisma. The actor playing Odan was not convincing, but the concept of Dr. Crusher falling for a Trill is reasonable. I found it interesting to see how once she crosses that bridge, she finds it hard to hard to maintain her emotional equilibrium. Riker's performance as Odan struck me as hysterical, I loved it. That made the episode for me.

[@stevemanart]

I'm a little surprised this isn't a Lamentation. On my rewatch I found the romance plots to be abysmally boring, and the music so bad it was at the "get out of my speakers" level.

[@ZemplinTemplar]

Huge retcons in DS9, that's for sure.

[@wcoleman99]

Yeah. The only reason for that was Terry Farrell too pretty to be under makeup going by management. You know the writers had to do rewrites to get something that made some logical sense.

[@tonebonebgky2]

The transporter is fixed. But you're right it's almost like a completely different species. Yeah what a pointless romance it is doctor Beverly😂. The host doesn't really die though it goes on in the symbioant. I've found that 80% of people who say they're in love is puppy love. I love Riker he's kinda awesome I agree here.

[@PredatorianStyl]

So this is a question from a non-native english speaker: What does "eating a sunday" mean?

[@mortimermcmirestinks]

A "sundae" is a type of dessert, usually ice cream with fruit and whipped cream on top. They're famously delicious but unhealthy. Very sweet, very sugary. I don't know why it is called a "sundae", though.

[@shootingreal5945]

I always thought the host stuff was confusing..in DS9 it was a case of a fusion or merger but in this STTNG episode the host is Buried or is push aside completely..WHO WOULD AGREE TO THAT ON THE HOST SIDE? WHY WOULD THE HUMAN HOST DO THIS? WHAT DO THEY GET OUT OF IT? Sidenote..wouldn't this be awkward as hell going forward if we assume she slept with the body of Will Riker.. Will may agree to be a host but sleeping with Crusher may not be what he had in mind..this was for negotiations reasons, not hooking up with Beverley who he is a longtime friend of. We get no discussion or mention of this atom bomb in there friendship going forward( Will may not be in control of himself but Beverly was and didn't out of respect for Will and there friendship back off and not allow it to bc sexual...Think of it like this, if Beverly was to bc pregnant, it would be Will Rikers child bc it's his bodily fluids...so would Will be responsible for the child..it seems like a violation on Beverlys part to me) I can't get that aspect of this out of my mind but it's not addressed by fans or anyone for the most part.

[@sarysa]

I think "parasite" might be an instance of the unreliable narrator. Beverly was simply never exposed to an internal symbiant before, and Odan was in no physical condition to split hairs.