Star Trek The Next Generation Ruminations S7E24: Preemptive Strike

[@LoreReloaded]

I’m a simple man. I see a runner upload... I click the link

[@paulscott2037]

Nacheyev I can imagine was willing to be a little more open about her true feelings with Picard as a Captain than Sisko as just a Commander.

[@davidkoritan1692]

I was just about to post the same basic thing.

[@MrTheSlimJim]

And not just any captain. The captain of the flag ship.

[@Jokie155]

"We're giving Cardassia six CFI replicators." "Six? Bajor only got one." It's in DS9 spoken dialogue that there are grades of replicator, and by the sound of it larger ones that are designed to handle infrastructure and mass produce.

[@vesuvanprincess]

I love this episode. Such a great send off for one of my favorite characters in all of Trek.

[@sharkdentures3247]

I agree. I loved Ro. And the actress did a great portrayal of her. Also, I too LOVED the "stealing medical supplies" scene. It ACTUALLY showed major competence for several people in Starfleet. (like how Picard ordered Worf to fire phasers at Ro's ship's last location. to make it look like a GENUINE attempt to stop her? excellent)

[@stevemanart]

15:40 I've been dirt poor most of my life, and was homeless for a little over a year. A Federation penal colony is a literal and unquestionable paradise from my perspective.

[@paulscott2037]

Galor classes are no where near the level of a Galaxy. They're, around Excelsior level. Probably upgraded around the Dominion war but still. But this is an episode I always use as an example that Star Trek ships are not as powerful as people give them credit for. A cruiser can succumb to a number of smaller ships banding together fairly easily.

[@AlucardNoir]

Drugs... the reason you wouldn't want a "civilian grade" replicator to do medicine is because of habit forming drugs. I do believe Tasha's people had a serious problem with drugs, so it's not unheard of at the time. Also, it might just be me, but food based replicators should be really high up since one misshapen protein could cause an incurable prion disease.

[@Tuning3434]

+AlucardNoir Oh yes, when I realized what prion's actually are, it really scared the crap of this adult man. That stuff is just scary unbelievable Scifi material, but it's real!

[@MrCornrowz]

Hopefully, the replicators would be sophisticated enough to know that it had erred in making a prion and corrected itself. If it can't make hemlock without divine (Q) intervention, it could do a sub- molecular scan and know it made something dangerous.

[@tiffanyshank8837]

I really appreciated this. I remember when I first saw this episode as a kid, all I could think was that Ro Lauren has always been one of my favorite characters and I didn't like it that she wasn't on the side of all that was true and right anymore (the black and white thinking of childhood and all...) so I really appreciate the nuances that you brought out here. I think it'd be okay with me if both Thomas Riker and Ro Lauren went out for a cause they believed in ... don't even get me started on the Federation's handling of the Maquis situation in the first place though. I think in day to day everyday life, the idea of having to choose between a person and an ideal usually isn't an issue because if you have significant idealistic differences with a person already, you might still befriend/trust/love that person but you usually won't get all the way to the "I'm loyal to you" slot because that happens partially because you shared ideals already. It's just that military structure threw it all for a loop. Ro and Picard weren't really on opposite sides, they just had a difference in beliefs about the best way to interact with authority, which is much less important.

[@MariahSyn]

Galor.. equivalent to a Galaxy? That doesn't stack up to how they are portrayed during direct matchups during a certain war.

[@MrCornrowz]

Remember when Lorerunner said DS9 Era cardies were at the the level of TOS federation? How do they stand a chance against a Galaxy class starship?

[@williamozier918]

I view the juxtaposition is that DS9 shows us: The Maquis represent the danger of principles without practicality, and Section 31 (if they do exist) represent the dangers of practicality without principles.

[@harpercole5321]

This episode felt more lively than the past few, maybe because it was centred around a guest star. The infiltration plot has been done before, but it a solid enough take, that built on the foundation of Ro's established character. I like that they found the time for a goodbye between Ro and Riker - it would have been typically TNG to forget about their sort-of-romance a couple of years back.

[@MrCornrowz]

Having watched the whole run of TNG in the fall of '19 and again last summer, I realized that this episode is the proper finale of the series. Picard had a habit of giving chances and second chances to individuals for whatever reason. Almost everyone in his command crew betrayed him at one point in the show. Riker, Worf, Geordie, Crusher. Wesley. Even Data did, albeit obliquely. This was his real arc...a man who only had his career who was betrayed by nearly all of the important people in his life.

[@aZeddPrattFilm]

I disagree but I totally understand your point of view.

[@Painter.Wane92]

I always thought that it was a shame that we never saw Ro Laren again and/or heard about her after this episode. Same with Thomas Riker and his final episode on DS9. Especially with the events of the Klingon-Cardassian War, Genocide of the Maquis and the Dominion War.

[@alexyoon-sungcucina7895]

I thought Galors were qualitatively inferior to Galaxy-class ships. I think they are more akin to Excelsiors or Ambassasors. Even inferior to a Nebula-class.

[@kardy12]

I thought so too, at least in TNG they weren’t to my understanding portrayed as equals of Galaxy class ships.

[@Ash_Rein]

I think federation prisons are meant to promote actual rehabilitation instead of punishment. To get people to change their ways as opposed to institutionalize them.

[@maflipse]

I’m hung up on you saying a galor is on par with a galaxy class. I get that they’re in the same class of ship but I really feel like the galaxy class is more advanced. I never saw cardassian technology as being quite on the same level as the other major powers, especially the federation. There’s even a scene in a DS9 episode where worf makes Kira swear not to share advanced weapons technology with cardassia. I know you love ships and maybe you have a good case but personally I just don’t see it. The Galor seems more like a cruiser to me where the galaxy class is a heavy cruiser.

[@MrCornrowz]

Perhaps he meant same classification. Like, a WW2 aircraft carrier and a 2021 aircraft carrier are "aircraft carriers" but you wouldn't want to throw your kitbashed 1921 aircraft carrier against a fully armed and operational Gerald Ford class carrier.

[@Lord_Reavous]

A note about "demilitarized zones" there was a zone created Post World War I in the Rhineland (basically the industrial part of Germany). It was under the jurisdiction of Germany, but they were not supposed to station troops. I don't know if the factories were permitted to be military in nature (I don't think they were). But one of the many "appeasement" decisions was to not act on Germany re-militarizing it. I think it was a legit breach of the peace treaty and an act of war. I guess my point is that a zone like this is purely a construct of the powers that make them and could be as described.

[@quasimodojdls]

TNG really does end on two high notes. In this one, single episode they did more dramatically with the Maquis than VOY did in it's entire seven year run. Amazing character work, a smoothly flowing script/action (amazing given how quickly it was written!) and that wonderfully evocative final shot of Picard (one of the most memorable single shots in the entire series). I would say the only thing that holds it back from a perfect score is that it undermines the ending of "Rascals". Yes, I'm still a defender of that episode, sue me. I always liked to assume that Ro decided to remain a kid after that episode in order to relive the childhood she never had. Well, I guess she didn't after all. 9/10

[@clearmountain28]

Being placed in a federation prison is a horrible punishment when you take in to account that these people are breaking the law specifically to stay at their chosen homes, not a federation penal colony. It would be the equivalent of someone undertaking an illegal medical procedure on themselves in order to have a child, when they have no other way to conceive, and then having that child taken away once they were discovered. No matter how gilded the cage it would still break them. For the record, I share your lack of attachment to a place but I understand why this would be legitimately horrifying to Ro, given how hard her own people fought to keep Bajor.

[@pegatheetoo1437]

Just saw this episode & noticed that it delivers a classic line - "I've known you since I first met you." 😂🤣😂

[@jeffreymiller9438]

I also look at this episode as an appropriate stop-point for the series. So you have Admiral Nechayev appear. Every time she shows up, she has some harebrained special ops/trail of tears fiasco in mind. Picard seems attracted to her and always obeys. I compare this episode to 'Below Decks' where Picard plays PSYOPS games with Ensign Sito Jaxa to get her to perform a suicide special ops mission. Here Picard is at it again, this time utilizing his star protege, for a mission right out of Operation Condor. Rather than face the difficult political situation the Maquis presented above board, the Federation opted for expedience and treachery. The arrogance of Star Fleet (and Picard) in employing Lieutenant Ro for this assignment is breathtaking. After the defection of Lieutenant Ro's Tactical Instructor, any investigation should have revealed the charisma of the instructor. To think that Picard's influence would transcend all of the other formative shaping of Ro Laren's life was, to be frank, vain and optimistic. I think this is an appropriate ending point of the series, with Picard's self-righteousness, which we've been flogged with for seven seasons, exposed for the careerist fraud it is. It took Ro to expose it unmistakably. A brilliant end. The stone face of Picard reveals that he knows it too.

[@Eelco_de_Boer]

Summary: Lieutenant Ro is sent undercover to root out a Maquis cell. After a while she starts to question her role in this operation and starfleet. (Nice episode, not great but a good send-off for Ro)

[@jimschuler8830]

Military-grade means manufactured by the lowest bidder to meet minimum standards. Unless there are legal restrictions (such as with weaponry) or classification reasons (like GPS), civilians have access to better-than-military-grade. A food replicator would be really, really good at manufacturing drugs, so much so that I'm fairly certain the difference between a food replicator and a medical-grade replicator would be in testing and certification. A group like the Maquis wouldn't blink at forgoing that certification and overriding any artificial restrictions.

[@jonathanward7320]

The Galor class was shown to be no match for a Galaxy class in the ‘Wounded’ episode, it was disabled relatively easily. If you said the Keldon class was a match for a Galaxy then that would be a fair point as they were basically galors but beefed up with better weapons

[@Cobheran]

I love this episode. Thank you for this great analysis. I like to think this is also a conflict between what is right and what is correct. Ro loses sight of the big picture, and it's something we are told about but are never really shown. Unfortunately within the confines of the show, to me both she and Thomas died in the Maquis genocide. Looking forward to next week, and beyond.

[@aZeddPrattFilm]

I came to this specific rumination because I think Ro is a great character and is definitely one of my favorites. This episode as a character piece works extremely well. Unfortunately the analysis I got was mostly about technobabble, lore and territories instead of the brilliant acting, pacing, character arc’s, set design, etc. As a Star Trek viewer I must be very forgiving because for me it’s all about how well the episode is acted, paced, and wether or not the writing does a well enough job at establishing it’s themes, ideas, etc.

[@rafetizer]

I thought the pacing was a bit too fast for the level of depth the story was bringing, but what can ya do when you're stuck with a single episode?

[@jmorrison230582]

There are different versions of DMZs - there are ones (e.g. Korea) which are completely empty and don't belong to either side, which are effectively buffer zones between the two. But there are other versions, e.g. after World War 1 the area between the river Rhine and the actual German borders in the west ("the Rhineland") were demilitarised, but the territory still belonged to Germany. It just meant that Germany couldn't station any troops there, and for a while Allied troops occupied some of it. One of Hitler's first major actions in repudiating the Treaty of Versailles was to send German troops back into that zone. The "neutral zones" in Star Trek feel more like that than empty buffer zones.

[@kardy12]

Demilitarised zones have existed without being no-mans land. For example, after WW1 large parts of the Ruhr industrial region were still part of Germany, but could not have any German military presence (until a little Austrian guy with a funny moustache used resentment of that fact for political gain before unilaterally marching soldiers in).

[@francoislacombe9071]

Wasn't Thomas in a Cardassian prison when the Jem'Hadar destroyed the Maquis? So he probably survived that. Ro Laren's survival is more up in the air, but if I had to bet, I'd put my money on her.

[@Infernal460]

23:50 No she does not come back but she is in BSG season 2 and is really great.

[@rafetizer]

She shows up in True Blood as well.

[@patrickwise471]

Even when this episode first aired, I wondered if Ro leaving, plus Wesley leaving the way he did, contributed to Picard never becoming an admiral. Seems like every officer he personally sponsors either dies or betrays/quits the Federation. Perhaps another "Persian Flaw" as Riker would say. Maybe Picard's just not that good at recruitment at the beginning stages of one's career?

[@DanielleWhite]

I definitely agree with your sentiment In text on the closing screen. I certainly understand that level of commitment to a person and to an ideal. In the past I committed to civil disobedience activism because of how important both were to me. It was a situation that both affected the ideal and the people and it was a point where my freedom and my own real life mattered less than winning that fight

[@peterkottke2570]

A lot of the plot holes mentioned were filled by other episodes .... 1) The Cardassians seem to give their Guls a lot of independence. The Guls gain their command and are given lease to go out and build their repuations. This leads to hundreds of very ambitious Guls looking to improve their rank and station but limited opportunities to do so. The demilitarized zone provided those oppurtunities even if the long term effect was bad for the empire. 2) The Federation has long looked the other way when it came to Cardassian aggression. In the first Ensign Ro episode they effectively committed an act of war. The Federation shrugged it off. There's little to suggest that the Federation would respond to similar attacks on colonists who had refused the Federation attempts to relocate them. 3) Cardaissian warships while more purposed to battle have never seemed to be equal to Federation starships. ( or Klingon for that matter ) 4) The Federation prisons might be nice, but that assumes they can take down the marquis ships without killing them. Questionable as they were so close to the border. Even in episode they made it a point not to shoot at Ro's ship suggesting that if the Marquis didn't surrender they were willing to use lethal force.

[@videogenics86]

You have to wonder if there has been a Changeling on the Federation council all this time working to make all of these horrible decisions.

[@williamozier918]

Unfortunately in my headcannon if you remember the episode Conspiracy then the snafu that is the Cardassian War, and the treaty begin to make perfect sense.

[@videogenics86]

@@williamozier918 It does, doesn't it?

[@myrecreationalchannel7181]

Lore you are wrong about the Galor class, in "The Wounded" it is made clear that the Galor class is no match for the Galaxy class one on one. And it is made clear that even without shields a Nebula class vessel is more than a match for one.

[@spaveevo]

It seems like yesterday when you started TNG and was so excited. The years sure do fly by fast. I enjoyed your Voyager Ruminations and now TNG. Every once in a while when i watch a Trek episode ill look up your rumination on it. Usually ill agree with what you say and sometimes I don't but that's what makes them fun to relive. Even the early Voyagers are fun. Ya i said it! Thanks for sharing with us.

[@SchneeflockeMonsoon]

This episode feels like it was gonna be so good. It had everything going for it except for everything. We have a Maquis episode that has all the ways to introduce Chakotay’s crew, Ro infiltrating the Maquis, a resolution to Ro’s arc of accepting herself as more than just “a Bajoran”, her homecoming to the Enterprise… And it just misses all the marks for me. Don’t get me wrong, I love almost every individual scene, but all the missing Voyager crew, Ro’s betrayal, Picard’s inability to reach out of her in the bar and help her make the right choice/pull out before she sympathizes too deeply, the fact she was only going to be a short-term plant instead of actually setting her up to feed them more information so they could actually solve the problem rather than a symptom.

[@jackbates7467]

I wonder if it was intentional that Riker is wearing the bajoran traditional earring thing when he says goodbye to Ro...

[@mr51406]

Poor Ro and poor Maquis. It’s a sad story of betrayal and hopeless dreams. Which will only get much worse. So sad when Macias, the father figure, says “when it’s all over.” All over will be in 3 years when the Jem’Hadar show up. 😢 The colonists should have gotten out when they had a chance. It’s sad to leave a home, starting over is tough, but I still prefer being alive and homeless than the alternative. There is always hope as long as there is life. It’s not a Hollywood ending. It’s courageous to end the regular episodes of the series on a sad note. Trek is at its best when it’s not Hollywood. That said, I’ve avoided rewatching this show for 30 years because it’s sad, but I’m glad I did.

[@lancebaylis3169]

Imagine if they'd convinced Forbes to join VOYAGER as Ro Laren (presumably as engineer instead of Torres), how much more significant this episode would've felt in 'laying the groundwork' for "Caretaker", right down to esrablishing the deep connection between that former Starfleet instructor (Chakotay) and Ro Laren, ala the connection between Chakotay and Torres. To be honest I like to think there's a bizarro universe out there where Voyager features the characters of Nick Locarno and Ro Laren directly. Maybe even Ensign Wesley Crusher, too (imagine the story potential in having Wes and Nick hashing out their differences in the Delta Quadrant?), as canonically Wesley and Harry Kim are the same age so swapping one for the other might've been cool. Or how about dropping Janeway into this one somewhere as an 'early bird cameo'? If they were making these shows today I could absolutely see Preemptive Strike/The Maquis/Caretaker being a single special crossover event across all three shows, and imagine what a cool introduction to Voyager it'd have been too?? Gods I can see why you and Lore Reloaded and Jessie like to rewrite Star Trek, it's a lot of fun.

[@Infernal460]

It's a DMZ but people were already living there. Some law and order provision was probably established to prevent anarchy but on the whole these people are on their own. That's my take on it.

[@melenatorr]

So strange to think this is coming to a close. Will miss this a great deal.

[@rafetizer]

I think maybe this episode could have benefited from being a two-parter. They could have dropped any of the numerous shoddy episodes prior to allow more time for events to develop here. We do get the gist of everything just fine, but the 40 minute time-crunch means they have to push everything along at such a rapid pace that it feels a bit unnatural. Also, why do the black guys always rock the same flat-top? (well, the ones playing human characters, anyway) Makes me wonder if they tried to get Avery Brooks to get one and he was like, nah, I'm not doing that. I found it somewhat amusing when Picard's like, "I'm sending Riker back with you to make sure you complete the mission." and then Riker was about as effective as a potato. Of course, it was a good way to get him in place for their farewell scene, which definitely hit me right in the feels. I don't even like Ro all that much, but the whole combination of saying goodbye on somewhat bad terms and the pain of having to make a difficult choice really hits hard.

[@theurbanloner8879]

Under what authority ? Who can do what in the DMZ? The side with the biggest gun.

[@martynstembridge7714]

I often see comments like the one at the end of this video on the screen that suggest the character of Ro was discarded, and her potential was wasted ... but what people fail to realise is that the producers knew exactly what they had with Ro. They KNEW she was an incredible character, and they tried to bring her back at every turn ... but there was one significant problem ... Forbes just wasn't interested, and she wanted to get as far away from Trek as possible. Star Trek didn't waste Ro ... They just couldn't get her back in the uniform ... Until now.

[@athrunzala6919]

A great episode overall, Ro was worth tap dancing for!

[@lunamoth3120]

This is one of my favorite episodes of TNG...but I have to say, Picard's response at the end always bugged me. It seemed kind of childish almost? I think Stewart could have communicated how upset he was without ignoring Riker. I also found it strange why he was SO upset. I know he didn't see all that went down at the Maquis' camp, but he knew what happened to Ro's father. One would think he'd consider that once she defected and maybe even wonder if she had a good reason.

[@Horos101]

This is the second ensign to walk out on Picard due to a loss of faith in him and Starfleet, with Wesley having done so just a few episodes ago. Picard might be feeling defeated here.

[@CyndisKrist]

I was disappointed that Ro chose to turn her back on Starfleet and join the Maquis, and I also don't like that she pointed a phaser at Riker. At least she did no physical harm to anyone of the Enterprise crew, but I was still disappointed in her for what she did.

[@starwolf99]

It looks like this was written around the same time as Donnie Brasco, hence some similarities.

[@athrunzala6919]

I don't think the Galors are any good until the Dominion war when the Dominion must have shared some tech with them, otherwise my head canon tells me that Cardassian tech is a few decades behind the rest of the quadrants, which why they can never make any real headway in their resource deprived society through their conquest.

[@FreihEitner]

I like this episode but one thing really takes me out of the story. The captain and the first officer of The Federation's flag ship, who have steadily built their fame (or infamy) over the past 7 years, go undercover amongst the Maquis, many of whom are former Federation personnel, without being discovered. Uhh....

[@MrCornrowz]

It'd be like marilyn monroe and Ronald Reagan went undercover in the Soviet union. They'd be discovered Asap.

[@rafetizer]

They figured if Spock could get away with it on Romulus, they could too, by golly.

[@gcooper642]

I thought this episode was better than a lot of films.

[@quasimodojdls]

It's a shame that bad taste Stewart had at the end of Season Seven didn't keep him away from Trek permanently.

[@rafetizer]

lmao shots fired!

[@rafetizer]

I think the problem was compounded because the people behind ST:P likely treat him with utmost reverence, and therefor allowed him to dictate some of Picard's behaviors. "Well, I'm too old for a dune-buggy chase scene, but I feel like Picard would like to throw a sign on the ground and stomp on it, and can we also have some of the GoT level violence? A sidekick who I can get to chop off heads will do nicely, thank you." _"Yes Mister Stewart, right away Mister Stewart."_

[@nemesis9022]

This stuff is heavy.. when is TOS coming Lore? Lol. I'll check the website.. *Lore has a website?* 😁

[@jeffreymaxson6216]

If Ro had been on the ship during Genesis I wonder what animal she would have become 🤔

[@rafetizer]

A cassowary. Doesn't make any sense evolutionarily speaking, but who cares with that episode anyway lol

[@roystonsbailey]

ST generally doesn't do politics or macro stuff well.

[@danielyeshe]

I have never felt that the Marquis and the Ba’ku are appropriate parallels. The Ba’ku aren’t Federation citizens. In fact it is likely they have been on their world since before the Federation existed. Forced relocations are never good but the Federation has no right to relocate the Ba’ku. In my opinion the Ba’ku are like the various isolated tribes around the world. These isolated peoples technically live within the boarders of countries but those countries don’t have jurisdiction within the tribes.

[@athrunzala6919]

For replicators, I was waiting for the tech to replicate entire ships, especially after the 'self replicating cloaked mine' nonsense.

[@rafetizer]

How bout self-replicating replicators. Dun dun DUNNNN!

[@empirejeff]

Very good.

[@timriggins70]

The Maquis needed a propaganda arm.

[@gcooper642]

Argh, spoilers. A lot of episodes weren't aired in Scotland because Gaelic children's shows were programmed by the BBC at the same time DS9 aired in the rest of the UK. Thomas Riker was in the Maqui? Missed that! The dominion wiped them out? Missed that! I'm only just catching up on Netflix. I'm not fussed about spoilers, but wow. Did not predict these things!

[@morh8762]

Galor class maybe better than Galaxy class? Seriously? Did you forget about the wounded and pretty much every other episode with Galor Class ships

[@Redshirt434]

Watch Picard Season 3!