Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan (4/8) Movie CLIP - Kirk Beats Khan (1982) HD

[@Will87]

Great scene especially when the Enterprise rises behind the Reliant, the music increases in tempo and Chekov delivers the badass line "torpedoes ready, sir"

[@Agent_1701-D]

When Chekov pulls and readies the firing switch, you know they were ready. And if anyone was going to fire on his former ship, it was going to be Pavel!

[@robtru84]

Did John Belushi and Randy Rhoades get to see this movie?

[@sandal_thong]

It looks good, but when you think of it, it's stupid and they got lucky. All Khan has to do is have his viewscreen look back and fire aft. Someone should do an alternate ending spoof, where the Enterprise rises and he shouts, "There she is!" followed by "Aft torpedoes, FIRE!" and the Enterprise saucer section explodes like in ST III. The "correct" response to 2-dimensional thinking is to drop (or rise) 10,000 meters, but pitch 90°, so when the Reliant passes they just open fire at its top or bottom and Khan doesn't know where it's coming from, so returns fire blindly in his plane.

[@dice_for_death]

1:45 These practical special effects are incredible. I am in love with these visuals.

[@thewinnerslegion]

This cat and mouse scene is one of the greatest of all time....RIP James Horner

[@zandarx]

Glad you have mentioned one of my fave composers.. Battle Beyond the Stars was fabulous as was Commando! rock on brother... or sister!

[@1badjesus]

1:16 .. COME ON!! ...who didn't grin as The Enterprise creeps behind Reliant?? 🤘!!

[@SJHFoto]

I remember in the movie theater, people cheered when the Enterprise won

[@Brian6587]

This movie will always be timeless! The shots in the Mutara Nebula are incredible.

[@deathproofpony]

Don't piss off Chekov... dude's a crack shot with those photon torpedoes. God damn.

[@GenGamesUniverse]

+deathproofpony yea, he showed that pretty much in Motion Picture when he fired the photon torpedoes to stop the asteroid from hitting the Enterprise.

[@manco828]

+Some Guy Russians and torpedoes, a deadly combination.

[@reidmason2551]

And considering how much misery Khan put him thru, it's fitting that he ended up being Kirk's trigger man for Khan's defeat. Chekov repaid Khan in spades here.

[@jordanreed7570]

Khan’s cruelty took the life of one captain Chekhov admired/served in order to harm/kill the other captain this was personal

[@sandal_thong]

A bit slow though. If Khan had looked in the rear video, the Enterprise would have been destroyed.

[@Alex24241211]

Not even the new film is going to change my mind about this being the best Star Trek film

[@ziraprod6090]

clown.... why would it?

[@RonaldoSanchez-g1y]

"He is intelligent, but inexperienced in space combat. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking". Then Kirk knows exactly what to do. Spock always knew exactly what to say.

[@matthewfischer9983]

It's almost like someone was writing it that way! haha😆

[@margotrosendorn6371]

And here we see one of the most badass examples of how knowledge and experience are two separate things. For all his intellect, Khan simply didn't have all the years of starship command and battles Kirk did.

[@zt2max]

@rockwellrhodes7703 Yeah but they have to do that in movies Rockwell. I remember when someone made a point similar to yours when they asked the director Nicholas Meyer why Khan done something dumb if he had a super IQ. I call this, "the fan fallacy", because fans forget that directors have to find a way to prolong the story by sometimes suspending plausibility somewhat if there isn't an easy way to prolong the story. Just for example in the Harry Potter novels the enemy Lord Voldemort only tries to kill Harry Potter with a certain killing spell when all he had to do was use a cutting spell and he would have defeated Harry Potter, but then there would have been no book series so the writer had to make Voldemort obsessed with killing Harry Potter on magical merit. The writer made Voldemort someone consumed by his own ego that just had to prove to himself he was the greater wizard. The series became hyper-focused on that one killing spell and what it could do because otherwise because they used magic there would simply be too many ways to easily kill someone so J.K.Rowling had to do that to prolong the story. In this movie, Khan had to start the battle somehow and we had to see Kirk find a way out of an impossible situation because that was what Kirk was about, he was the old hero that could find a way where there was no way.

[@imcallingjapan2178]

@rockwellrhodes7703 "Hollyweird" What's weird about any of this?

[@sandal_thong]

@rockwellrhodes7703 It was a movie full of stupid mistakes. You'd think Kirk was in his 80s or something? In some ways it was a repeat of battles from "Balance of Terror," "The Deadly Years" and "The Doomsday Machine." The ship's damage was exactly the same to that last episode: "Mr. Spock, ship status?" "Warp drive out, deflector shields down, transporter under repair; we are on emergency impulse power." "How long to repair warp drive?" "At least one solar day."

[@shigeolincolntaco]

Khan is playing checkers while Kirk is playing 3D chess

[@David-ic4by]

The way Chekhov pulls the trigger for the photon torpedoes is epic. So cool.

[@williamj.dovejr.8613]

He was ready for payback...get some!

[@mdfilmguy]

"Hey, Khan, stick THIS in YOUR ear!"

[@Damorann]

I have to say, that was awesome space battles. Like submarines, stealthy, lurking somewhere, moving up slowly on their target... It's just so much better than all out battles of huge sizes sometimes !

[@ghostofpambo6266]

Quite possibly the best movie sci-fi space battle sequence.

[@dedebones1967]

The Most Bad Ass Star Trek Film Of All

[@wadesmith4228]

This was the first Star Trek movie that I DIDN’T get to see at the theatres. The VERY FIRST time I EVER saw it was in the afternoon of Easter Sunday, 1983, more than a year after it went to theatres in February 1982. I saw “Star Trek: The Motion Picture” at the theatre-then, beginning with the 3rd movie in 1984, and continuing thru the tenth movie, “Star Trek: Nemesis,” which was released on my mom’s birthday in 2002, 12/13/02, I saw EACH & EVERY Star Trek movie AT the theatre. That Easter Sunday in April, 1983, we all had dinner-THEN, my dad, my maternal grandfather and I went into the living room to see HBO’s world-premiere of “Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.” None of us had seen it before, but we all enjoyed it. I LOVED that movie SO MUCH, it immediately became my favorite!! I watched it over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over-and, to THIS day, it’s one of those movies I can watch MANY times without ever getting tired of it. - From 6th grade thru my freshman year of high school, I was a big fan of parody magazines. Up until 1982, there were three biggies: MAD Magazine, CRACKED, and CRAZY Magazine. I haven’t seen a CRACKED Magazine in years, but I can tell MAD Magazine is still going strong. I remember when CRAZY Magazine published its very last issue in 1982, with the Editor’s Note explaining why. - The reason why I made this sudden segue from Star Trek movies into “parody rags” is because this one PARTICULAR clip from “Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan”-this one PARTICULAR piece of the movie, which we’ve all enjoyed (myself in particular)-brought to mind the way CRAZY Magazine parodied it. I don’t remember ALL the details of how CRAZY Magazine parodied “Wrath of Khan,” but I DO remember how this scene was done in the parody. The sketch artist drew the Enterprise rising up behind Reliant-similar to what we’ve seen here-HOWEVER, CRAZY Magazine’s “version” of this came complete with the Captain’s Log in which Kirk indicated that “the Enterprise had put up a valiant fight against Reliant…well, actually, we sorta sneaked up behind them…”

[@MultiSpiderdude]

I love how Khan was so predictable that Kirk knew EXACTLY where he would be.

[@Goodiesfanful]

He did say Khan was consistent.

[@Agent_1701-D]

And that Spock gave the key insight that led to victory.

[@silverkitty2503]

im kind of like that

[@Love-Sensibility]

​@@GoodiesfanfulSo in a way he was helping him. Nice

[@Sh9168]

Only because Spock has to remind him about the third dimension.

[@nicholasmorsovillo2752]

Watching the way the Enterprise opened fire on the Reliant like that reminded me of what happened during the final battle between the U.S.S. Voyager and the U.S.S. Equinox in particular the way both the Enterprise and Voyager destroyed both the Reliant and the Equinox's port warp nacelle by destroying it with photon torpedoes in fact the guys who were worked on the 2 part episode 'Equinox' from Star Trek Voyager took hints from TWOK for that final battle at the end of the second episode.

[@Hollowshape]

"two-dimensional thinking" J. J. Abrams in a nutshell.

[@lroy730]

Yes why is he flying Space Ships like Air Planes

[@danielpothier9990]

Into Darkness was good but JJ blew a big opportunity with ST:Beyond what a terrible movie. There was so much lore he could have drawn from for a dozen more hits: City on the Edge of Forever, Balance of Terror, The Doomsday Machine, The Menagerie. So sad.

[@lroy730]

@@danielpothier9990 Yep, it's not giving a damn, (it's just a sci-fi movie who cares) kind of attitude. Same attitude he brought to the Star wars fiasco.

[@staalman1226]

@@danielpothier9990 Well I didn't like Into Darkness as much either; they completely rushed Khan, so that there wasn't a chance to incorporate what made Khan so good here: The fact that he had been going mad on a (almost) lifeless planet, and wanted to get revenge on Kirk.

[@mattrodgers4878]

Daniel Pothier into darkness was good?!! Perfect example of “no imagination, 2 dimensional thinking”JAR JAR Abrams. I had said this too many times, I’m tired of writing it, so I’ll be brief. New cast, new crew, new “timeline 🙄” and the best he can come up with is to retell TWOK???

[@kettch777]

Elegantly simple. Khan thinks in two dimensions, Kirk uses the 3rd. Sink "beneath" him and then come up again in firing position. He's lucky Khan didn't think in terms of a submarine battle...

[@sandal_thong]

Coming up behind him was visually impressive, but reckless and potentially deadly. If Khan had adjusted the viewscreen to give side and back views, he would have seen him and destroyed the Enterprise before Chekov got around to pushing the button. They should have pitched 90 degrees so the Enterprise was facing "upward" so when the Reliant passed in front of them (over them), they could unload on its underside without Khan realizing where they were firing from.

[@davidtatro7457]

I never before realized how much the music score for this scene derived from the end of Shostakovich's 5th Symphony. No wonder it was such a great score.

[@josephpowelliii9169]

One of the many very best scenes in this movie...where Kirk out-thinks Khan!!!

[@markniles877]

The Matura Battle is one of the best battles in all Star Trek episoles.

[@aaronochoa-fernandez2726]

1:16 - 2:01 The best part of the movie so far is so memorable as the Enterprise rises up and fires her Torpedoes and the Phasers fire away.

[@JustSomeCanadianGuy]

Can you imagine having Spock as the guy you can go to for advice whenever you have a problem? 😄

[@Nostripe361]

dont forget that nebula can span light years or even hundred of light years. plus you must also factor in the speed they were at as they flew to and into said nebula and then the momentum they would have at that speed. and even if for some reason they slowed to a perceivable speed you would still need to figure a way to see through all the dust, gases, and other particles. and they also edmit or reflect light since that is how we see them through our telescopes by collecting the light emited .

[@manco828]

This movie is why I'm reading "Moby Dick".

[@mansharker8]

The explosions all over khans ship are the result of the nacelle and other parts of the warp core getting damaged...the damage then sends a feedback of energy all over the ship, and presto..fried control panels, etc. Kirk knew this and used it to his advantage.

[@TheVFXbyArt]

..Shrapnel too, remember it was unshielded as well.

[@chrismc410]

I'd have finished the job and target the warp core hoping to breach it. Destroying the Reliant and Genesis with her.

[@bob1986]

@@chrismc410 At that close range without shields the explosion would have crippled if not destroyed Enterprise too and without sensors getting to a safe distance would make it extremely hard to fire and hit Reliant. Plus there's no telling what kind of effect blowing up the Genesis device would have. Not to mention they still wanted to retrieve the Genesis Device intact. It wasn't known that the device wouldn't work properly, or that the Klingon's knew about it until the next film.

[@robertswift6101]

kahn may have more intellect than kirk but kirk has all the experience and is awesome at the chess game

[@johnnydavis5896]

Kirk has Spock helping him giving him an intellect at least close to Kahn's level.

[@chrismc410]

@@johnnydavis5896 but Khan learned the hard way intellect/intelligence is no substitute for experience. Kirk was reminded by Spock that unlike Khan, he's been trained and had practice in 3D Space Combat against other starships, namely the Klingons and Romulans his entire adult and professional life. He was reminded to use that experience

[@DarkVaati13]

when the music starts playing i want to cry "Let slip the dogs of war"

[@Edbondy]

One of the best Star Trek films

[@JWBabaYaga]

The best. Period.

[@CaptainSovereign]

Starfleet when defeats an enemy ship with augmentet crew: How many times do i need to teach you this lesson old man?

[@franzhaas6889]

STAR TREK 2 & 3 ARE SEAMLESS. THOSE TWO FILMS WILL ALWAYS BE THE BEST. NICE UPLOAD.

[@pigactor]

One seam is different actresses portraying Saavik. ;)

[@Brandon3060]

My favorite Star Trek scene.

[@josephgallo3241]

I also remember going to a Star Trek marathon, where they showed the first four movies at one screening. People brought pillows and blankets because it was going to be a long day watching all four movies. This was done before Star Trek V and VI came out!

[@miroslavtomic7038]

The irony of this movie is that, despite Kirk and Khan being archenemies, William Shatner and Ricardo Montalban were never once on set together. In fact, during shooting of most of scenes, they were not even in same country or even same continent. This is why they never meet face to face in entire movie and only communicate through screen.

[@Wizardof]

This came out the same time as 1982 Knoxville World's Fair. Boy we had a blast that week.

[@sixstringfretter]

Perhaps. With all the interference with nebula, neither one could "see" the other with their scanners. For them to do what your suggesting, they would have had to of known exactly where she was, so that they could wait, let her pass, then rise up behind her. To have just guessed and gotten the timing so perfect seems highly improbable. But, like you suggested, they could have plotted her theoretical position based on known patterns and intuition. Badass scene any way you look at it!

[@sandal_thong]

Better to have stayed below and pitch 90° so when they come in front of their guns they could open fire without danger of firing back like happened in the last couple encounters.

[@terminator5959]

Glad you don’t take it too seriously 😂

[@lroy730]

I think this is the only time in the Star Trek franchise, where they used proper trigonometry. The rest of the time they use to coordinates to designate a location in space. You need three X Y and Z.

[@itsmegp46]

I don't know if I agree with you. Yes, they were a nubula, but they were hiding, not just speeding through it. So I have to believe they were moving rather slowly, expecially when the two ships passed each other.

[@crackshack2]

a window would have been great for this battle

[@capefear56]

Windows are structural weaknesses. Geth do not use them.

[@lolicanadian]

Indeed. The geth use Unix, presumably so that the Creators could force them to make sandwiches.

[@44excalibur]

They try to keep the windows on starships at a minimum, for obvious reasons.

[@Polyglot_English]

Если этот коммент наберёт 100 лаков, Я сделаю **РАЗБОР** этого видео! Like this comment if you **speak** more than one language!

[@robertthomas5736]

I Would Love to See This Incredible Film, on The Big Screen, Again!

[@lorencproductions]

You’re in luck, because soon it’ll be back in theatres for its 30th anniversary!

[@josephgallo3241]

I saw it many years ago in a movie theater in Orange, California. Before the movie, they showed a Q&A with William Shatner about the movie. I think it was a limited screening promotion that year and I was lucky to get tickets!

[@shanyin499]

It's really Spock Beats Khan

[@PerfidiousPuffin]

What I was thinking!

[@HardRockMaster7577]

Team Kirk defeats Team Khan

[@prepper1013]

IMHO, this was the greatest movie in the franchise.

[@airlock2011]

its the chess game that kirk and spock always play

[@robertswift6101]

and kirk beat spock at chess

[@saltyfrenchfry1025]

Magneto and professor X style

[@edinscot56789]

@@robertswift6101 Twice

[@MasterGeek-mk5ne]

Funny how these two ships lost in a gas cloud continue to find each other at the last minute on this static-filled monitor. These guys are playing Battleship, but with flashes of the opponent's board before they take a shot.

[@stuarthargreaves3745]

The irony is that the reliant was an anton class, the ship was damaged by romulans, rescued by enterprise. Refined and upgraded to miranda class to be destroyed in part by 1701 and the genesis device. There is a video that tells the tale of the reliant a fateful ship.

[@BedsitBob]

I thought they were using photon torpedoes? That second shot (the one into the nacelle) looked like a phaser.

[@Watcher3223]

1:47 "AAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!"

[@markh1154]

This stuff beats CGI any day!

[@starsiegeplayer]

Exactly. The camera was focused on Reliant and Khan when the subsequent "Z plus ten thousand meters" order would have been given.

[@Shadowkey392]

This is the best scene from the original movies.

[@Michael-qu6fj]

Kirk always relied upon Spock (and to a lesser extent, McCoy). In this case, Spock tells Kirk exactly what he needs to hear.

[@matthewjdenn]

There have been multiple ships throughout history (including a space shuttle) which have been named Enterprise.

[@2010metsfan]

Khan, doing his Michael Jackson, wearing one glove...

[@manco828]

If only they'd completely destroyed the Reliant, Khan would never have detonated the Genesis device. Spock would not have to die and lots of things would be different.

[@SuperHomelanderman]

If they'd complete Reliant's destruction, Genesis would probably explode with it! Plus... the Enterprise could be instantly catched by the explosion since it was not very far from the Reliant! MAN, WHAT HAVE YOU SUGGESTED??!!! :P

[@SuperHomelanderman]

Logan Cracraft thank you for your answer, but I said that it would be a probability. I'm also not 100% sure of what I said :P *Live long and prosper!

[@kuribayashi84]

+Nuno Silva In perfect hindsight, the best solution would've probably been to beam over the Genesis Device right after they had disabled the Reliant. But alas...

[@manco828]

+Nuno Silva Actually no. The Genesis device had to be put on a build-up to detonation for that to happen. It's "matrix" was not active.

[@chrismc410]

@@kuribayashi84 they could have beamed over beamed Genesis as energy wide dispersion. I'd imagine it can't build to detonation as molecules

[@HyperLimited]

1:47 Does anyone else chuckle at this part? XD

[@Nostripe361]

(sorry internet messed up) You are forgetting that a nebula may be 100s of light years across plus you need to calculate the momentum of the ship as it enters the nebula in the first place. and there still is the problem of all that gas, dust, and other cosmic debris floating around you while either reflecting or emitting light that would further aggravate your ability to see.

[@Nostripe361]

no im not i looked for sources since i checked on the size of nebulas beforehand, he did say move on a z axis, a nebula would make it hard to see period, and the fact that the ship was probably traveling at 167,000,000 mph when it went into the nebula if the main star trek wiki on full impulse is right. I may sound like a nerd but i completely understand how come they couldnt see through a window.

[@lewstone5430]

“From Hells heart I spit at thee!”

[@flyingscience]

THis was before CGI and they made actual large models of the ships.The ships now sit in museums and some have been sold to collectors .Note how bad the model explosions are with funky debrie

[@TheVFXbyArt]

Flip side though, Flying, that was the first time they saw, in the star trek franchise: 1) an star trek model taking actual, explosive destruction. I mean they actually animated frame by frame the armor damage on the hull of the ship in some shots. 2) Impact of an undiluted phaser and photons on ships on an unshielded ship 3) FINALLY blowing one of the pricesscy Nacelles to SMITHARINES! I mean they hang there like giant truck balls on the reliant or a giant delicate hair weave on the enterprise... it was just something you wanted to smack in, like, forever, and they FINALLY scratched that itch!

[@Nostripe361]

I think that they pointed this out in mass effect universe (sorry different scifi story) but they stated that it was almost impossible to visually spot a ship in the vastness of space without equipment. especially considering the average speed of the ship is probably many times the speed of our current fast aircraft. plus it is a nebula meaning colored gas everywhere. so it would be like you looking for a scram jet aircraft flying by at full speed in the middle of foggy night with colored fog.

[@NealX]

Having been an avid competitive gamer, I understand well how instincts work in combat when anticipating an opponent, and I make moves all the time that an outside observer would think was mere luck when in fact it was highly calculated. That's one reason I like this scene and the reason I adopted my own interpretation of it. In any movie there is no way to know all the answers and you have to fill in the gaps with your imagination. I prefer films that leave something up to the viewer.

[@John-ct9zs]

Yeah, I like the submarine like type battle of this scene. Return of the Jedi came out at about the same time, and Star Wars was more known for high paced aerial dog fights, more like World War 2 bombers. But this type of calculated battle was intense and clever in my opinion.

[@darthimperious1594]

@@John-ct9zs Yeah, I loved this and I had a basic understanding of it even when I watched it for the first time as a kid. Basically, Khan was a genius, but having not participated in space combat much, he had yet to develop any sound strategies. He likely was vey successful on Earth because he had thousands of years of history to draw data from. No matter how intelligent someone is, they can't develop strategy without data, and Khan likely hadn't bothered to spend weeks reading up on modern military literature in order to gain the data necessary to start forming effective strategies.

[@John-ct9zs]

@@darthimperious1594 But actually there is a possible plot hole there, but only noticeable to fans of The Original Series. Khan did make extensive use of the ship's library on his computer screen in sickbay in the episode "Space Seed". Even Spock noted this to Kirk, and Kirk just shrugged it off "as a common courtesy". Yes I know 15 years passed between Space Seed and TWOK, but you would think a genius like Khan would have remembered that. Ofcourse it can be argued he only studied the ship's engine and dynamic workings, and not space combat.

[@darthimperious1594]

@@John-ct9zs That's a good point. I suppose arrogance might have been his undoing, like it is so many times in these situations. Perhaps his rage caused him to fall back on his instincts, rather than utilizing the new information he had. By the time he went into the Mutara Nebula, he was not thinking clearly. Stil, good point! I had forgotten that!

[@mickharper4995]

I have always thought that this is one of the best laid out/scripted battles visually in Star Trek, the moment where Enterprise rises behind Khans' ship is brilliant.

[@sandal_thong]

It's pretty, but it's two-dimensional and stupid. If Khan was using the viewscreen to look forward, port, starboard and aft, he should have seen the Enterprise behind him and destroyed them.

[@IsleOfFeldspar]

I imagine nebulas are far more diffuse than pictured here

[@Nostripe361]

true but they had already been in the nebula for a while fighting each other and almost running into each other at one point. also once again it could take quite a bit of time for them to stop further making them hard to find. thirdly he followed that with an order to move according to the z axis which would mean a vertical movement in a three dimensional space. which would mess with Kahn who mostly thinks about combat in two dimensions also the nebula would still make it hard to see; like fog.

[@donboy65]

Hey Khan! Cripple, murder, and put ceti eels in THIS (1:41) and THIS (1:49) annnnnnd THIIIIIIIIS! (1:55) Ha ha ha ha! Just had to say that. Pretty good movie.

[@TheOnlyTommunist]

You're all missing the point. As much as I think Chekov is an O.G. ...well.....a Ceti Alpha space slug just FELL OUT OF HIS HEAD!.....yeah....get on the torpedoes bro.....

[@lopan122]

subtitles are for an earlier clip..

[@TheOnlyTommunist]

I MADE this movie my babysitter when VHS came out.

[@liquidmocofilmsllc4915]

I would absolutely love to know what their sound recording chain was from the mics to preamps and any compression, etc... I mean it is so clean and as it was on set I think it was not ADR since you can hear the room ambience in it. But I mean the voices just are so clear... maybe a NEVE preamp? Anybody know!!??

[@hpa2005]

0:18...... a thought strikes him

[@bidensucks2922]

Kahn only had a checkers in exile.... may have turned out differently if it was a 3D chess board.

[@stuarthargreaves3745]

Yes ST 02 is on of the best ship battels

[@jamesnasium4035]

Kirk beats Khan, with a huge assist from Spock.

[@SuperVillainsTV]

[MUSIC VIDEO] "From Hell's Heart" (Khan feat. James T. Kirk) by SuperVillains

[@JVLIVSPhotography]

1:19. That's that "OH SH__, I'm @#$%ED" moment.

[@nicholsonrules]

wow good job with the nemesis reference!

[@NealX]

Enterprise dropped down, waited for Reliant to pass, and then rose back up from behind. Reliant was attempting to get behind Enterprise on the X-Y plane, and Spock correctly predicted Khan wouldn't anticipate the Enterprise being ready for that move and cleverly sidestepping it. Like Spock said, ego.

[@sandal_thong]

Sounds good and looked good rising but it's wrong and dangerous. As long as the Enterprise was on the same plane, Khan might have seen them and opened fire with aft torpedoes, destroying them. The "correct" play was to drop (or rise) 10,000 meters, like they did but pitch 90° so when Reliant came by it was in their forward guns and could be taken out without Khan knowing where the attack was coming from.

[@VonArgylle]

@@sandal_thong The problem with this is that firing at that angle significantly increases the difficulty of the shot, as now you're having to compute firing angle on 2 planes instead of one. Without the computer's target lock to compute a firing solution, Enterprise might not have been able to hit them. In this scenario I'd argue its worth the risk to get in and deliver accurate fire. By coming up behind and getting point-blank the way he did, Kirk not only helped ensure he could hit, but in the event the initial salvo did not neutralize Khan, Kirk would be in a position to keep that firing angle as Reliant tried to maneuver.

[@sandal_thong]

@@VonArgylle No. If you ever played a video game where the enemy ship (or tank) moves into your cross-hairs, BOOM, you take him out. But in this movie it's just one stupid move after another. I wish someone would show what could have happened: the Enterprise rises up, Khan points at the screen "There she is" followed by "Aft torpedoes FIRE!" while Chekov is still playing with his joystick. Then the saucer section of the Enterprise blows up with the scene from _Star Trek III._

[@VonArgylle]

@@sandal_thong Not to be rude, but some of us have experience with weaponry in real life and don't have to rely on video games to try to draw our conclusions. Games oversimplify these things enormously in order to create a fun gaming experience. Perhaps you should read up on how complicated it was for submarines to obtain accurate firing solutions before the time of guided torpedoes. Do you really think it wouldn't be more complicated to hit a target 10km away that's moving at a high angle, than one with effectively zero relative movement to yourself? If you don't, you need to play less video games. If Enterprise could have reliably locked on target, your argument would have a lot more merit. But the movie clearly establishes that is not the case. Attacking a moving target moving at a wide angle to your own axis is always going to be more difficult. No matter what videogames with hitscan weapons might tell you.

[@sandal_thong]

@@VonArgylle Sorry. You're back to submarines surfacing and two-dimensional thinking which they criticize Khan for.

[@itsmegp46]

Look at the vid again. @0:20 Kirk orders full stop.

[@johnsonsa]

Commodore 64 joystick ready Captain!

[@sixstringfretter]

So do I. Films that leave you to wonder how it all came to pass are great. I love games too, but unfortunately I am not very good. Especially when it comes to games that require quick reflexes and dexterity. Games that require long term thinking I do better at.

[@alloydog613]

That scene, while pretty great, also bugs me. They say Khan is thinking in "two dimensions", so they drop below the Reliant's horizontal plane. They them rise up behind it to loose the torpedoes. When did they not just change their pitch so that they fired from directly below the Reliant? though, I am assuming a 23rd-Century ship's fire-control system could account for a moving target...

[@alloydog613]

Oh yeah, and for women who say men are heartless and never cry, need to sit with their fella during the Spock's death scene. ;)

[@sandal_thong]

I agree with that; which another one of us posted too. I'd like to see someone put some clips together where the Enterprise rises up, Khan says "There she is!" and "Aft torpedoes, fire!" and the saucer section explodes like in Star Trek III.

[@pattheman777]

They referenced this scene on last night's episode of Castle!

[@darthrevan27]

Kirk is badass

[@michealoceallaigh4716]

I would've tilted the bow up ninety degrees after descending so the Enterprise would be perpendicular to the Reliant

[@sandal_thong]

Ditto. Rising up behind Reliant put them in danger of being hit by their aft torpedoes (had Khan adjusted the viewscreen) before the Enterprise got around to fire. In our way, the Reliant would have passed right in front of the screen without seeing the Enterprise and they could have just taken him out without him knowing where the attack came from.

[@itsmegp46]

In the movie there is a ship and in a movie you can do anything you want.

[@mike197714]

I have all ten Star Trek movies on DVD. My friend bought them for me. I was so happy. I watch them once in a while. The wrath of khan was a good movie. But it was sad at the sametime. I’ve got the alien Quadrilogy too. My mom was going through her collection. She got rid of her alien Quadrilogy. So I grabbed them. Right now I’m watching aliens special edition. Basically it’s the directors cut. Back then ppl(audience)didn’t want to sit and a movie for over 3 hrs. Nowdays ppl have a lot higher attention spans.

[@sandal_thong]

I know I no longer want to watch _Star Trek: The Motion Picture_ the 2.5 hour cut. I made my own cut, where it's less like _2001: A Space Odyssey_ staring out into space. But then there's not much movie left.

[@mike197714]

@@sandal_thong well it was the most underrated movie. It’s a good movie thou. It tried to ride on the coattails of 2001. Even thou Disney tried to ride the popular Star Wars wave with The Black Hole(1979). Which stunk to high heaven. The whole movie looked and felt like a blooper reel.

[@donaldmisgen5743]

This is awesome 👍

[@frpgplayer]

I get the whole 3d concept. Ender's game addressed one more space battle/movie flaw. Why Z minus. How about plus and flip the ship. You may think they are upside down and that's what makes it funny. Most space ship movies, even when the get the x, y, z used, still keep everyone upright when looking at each other. At least in Space Battleship Yamato, they spun the ship causing their guns to fire in all 3d angles

[@peterp2153]

Because humans living their whole lives upright don’t inherent understand the lack of up or down in space. Of course, that whole lack of experience is the whole point of this battle. Khan is brilliant but flying the Reliant around like a car or a plane, making Wide, flat turns to maneuver around. Prople can understand Kirk’s 3-dimensional strategy of up and down. But also flying inverted would probably make people go WTF?

[@EnterpriseKnight]

Yes, also the roles are completely reversed. The Enterprise was completely overwelmed by the Vengeance and the only way out was for Spock to play outplay Khan with the same thing he wanted.

[@BigNoseDog]

It's sad that nearly 30 years after TWOK, the best Abrams can do is a remake and not even a good one at that. If there had been no TWOK, anyone watching Into Darkness wouldn't care who Khan was.

[@georgemicha2454]

Well, in the timeline, TWOK would not have happened yet. If anything, Darkness is a re-imagining of Kirk's original encounter in Space Seed on TOS. Those who were fans of TOS would almost certainly know and care.

[@sandal_thong]

Right. Cumberbatch says "Khan." And Kirk is supposed to know who that is? He didn't in "Space Seed" until they figured out he was Khan Noonian-Singh.

[@oregonflatland]

abram's remake of wrath of khan is a travesty - a mockery of everything that is trek. there's no way that it can even be in the same universe as the original.

[@daetoris4473]

That's why it isn't, the new ones are in an alternate reality

[@Raguleader]

Funny how the battles never looked this good in the newer movies. Too much focus on quantity of the FX rather than the quality of them. I think the smoke adds to the confusion and chaos the characters must be dealing with.

[@SJHFoto]

I agree. I saw this and Return of the Jedi in the theater. I really haven't seen a one-on-one battle, or a fleet battle to match it (although the Ds9 Dominion fleet vs Federation was good, ROTJ was better. The other thing to keep in mind is that they had to METICULOUSLY shoot each model frame by frame back then. I saw a documentary on a 4 second clip of the ROTJ space battle-it took ROLLS of film and a LOT of time!

[@MonteLeeMyPOV]

z minus or plus is the third dimentional trajectory of movement, as i understand from this. i must learn all directions if i'm to become a captain myself. I also did not like the little stroll those guys had at 1:58.. after all the previous destruction, they should have been at least in a hurry..looks like the director just yelled action and then they shot it. Oh well awesome scene!

[@Rondu01]

Why didn't they have some people look out the window to find the ship?

[@compmanio36]

Because the distances in the story are almost always longer than portrayed for the on screen drama. The movie would be boring constantly only seeing one ship in frame at a time, but much more realistic for any space battle. We're talking about tens of thousands of kilometers between ships, not hundreds of meters, as is portrayed on the screen. You wouldn't see anything out the window except the torpedo right before it hit your ship.

[@manco828]

EVEN bigger distances for battles in active warp. We'd be talking millions of kilometers or more.

[@gameking8809]

@Stimulator7 it would be pointless. most of the time the ships are several hundreds of kilometers away from each other.

[@chasfuchsel8985]

beat stick ready captain..

[@tedbailey3673]

Wish it didnt cut away before Data could pump his fist and say "YES"

[@reakingringpiece]

the chances of him just dropping 10 thousand metres comming out behind him are massive!!!! of not completely improbable

[@PerfidiousPuffin]

They predicted where he will be based on the search pattern and they got behind using 3d thinking. Why is that so hard to belive? Also it's a fictional story so how the hell are you making probability calculations? I mean did you go and personally measure this fictional mutara nebula and compare with the sensors of the fictional enterprise in order to do your math? No? Just stfu man.

[@steves_garage]

If you remember Spock's line, they were tracking the Reliant by its energy output which indicated that they were coming around to get behind them . Dropping 10k meters and coming back up pretty much guaranteed Reliant would pass over so they could come back up from behind.

[@The_House_Velaryon]

and obviously Kirk, with all of his training ALSO two dimensional thinking.

[@coolcat6303]

Not at the end he wasn’t. Plus Kirk had a broken ship so there was only so much he could do.

[@sandal_thong]

Rising up behind Reliant was two-dimensional thinking. Had they pitched 90 degrees and shot them as they passed that would have been 3-D.