How Great is Great? | Ranking Shadowbringers MSQ Trials - FFXIV Wall of Trials

[@lituanar]

Fun fact: "What angel wakes me?" is an actual line from the character Titania in Shakespeare's play.

[@coolyeh1017]

The entire Titania fight is pretty much a "A Midsummer Night's Dream" by William Shakespeare reference. Titania is a character from the play. Some of the mechanics are straight up lines from the play too.

[@mihaicasator4221]

The adds as well

[@KMCA779]

I'm 90% convinced the song is in 4/12 time.... which is INSANE

[@coolyeh1017]

. @KMCA779 According to the FF wikia, the song is in 6/8 time, which is common with music genres like jigs (like Ireland where Celts are from and where the one of the myths fo the fae come from).

[@Laterose15]

And then there's "Full fathom five thy father lies," which is the name of a song/poem in Shakespeare's "The Tempest." Full Fathom Five is the theme of the Tempest. I bet there's a lot of Shakespeare references just hiding in plain sight in Shadowbringers.

[@beatrixkaelin5120]

"I don't feel the game did anything at all to teach me to LB3 at any point" The thing is, most people running through this as the Off tank already know about the surprise "Ultimate Crossover" and would've used it the first time even if you didn't know about it. The only reason your group reset so many times was because your party was full of Mods and fans who wanted you to figure it out yourself. In a non-streamer Tank's run the entire section instead flows immediately into the next phase and is instantly cool, thus learning they had to do the LB, and the next time they got it, they knew it was their chance to be the bad-ass.

[@jaylee9372]

Absolutely this. And while it’s true that this was the first MSQ mandatory Tank LB3. There were also mandatory tank LB3s in T13/Bahamut (which is usually done even when unsyncing so that people know it’s important) and also in A12/Alexander Prime. This was honestly an awkward combo of them getting carried through previous obligatory tank LB3 moments without chat or party making sure they noticed/remembered and then happening to get a stricter than normal party this one time that said “u gonna learn today” and made sure they did. But at the end of the day, it’s prog and not something to stress over. Now they know that another thing tanks are responsible for is paying attention to the sound of the LB bar aggressively filling. Especially in response to the boss doing a suspiciously painful looking countdown or flashy ultimate animation. It’s a lesson that’ll serve them well when they decide to tackle Savage and Ultimates later.

[@beatrixkaelin5120]

@@jaylee9372 Yup. It's the first time in MSQ they get the Tell, but from now going forward and even before this point, when ever the boss is out of reach, and doing a slow charge to an attack, *Especially* if the boss is so kind as to Count Down for them, and while the boss is charging the limit break meter fills, It's time to slam that 90% Mit buff. If any of those conditions fail, you probably can survive it otherwise.

[@scotty110]

the mods did try to tell Garrett after the first wipe to it, but Garrett wasn't paying attention to chat

[@TarundiMC]

I remember my first wipe to that. It was my first time running it as tank since I'm not a tank main, and I just either never noticed tanks using LB on it when I ran before, or I saw but thought "oh, that's weird". The other tank was a first timer, so I was the "should have known" tank since I've run the trial several times before. Definitely something you learn once and never forget.

[@ragateguh2825]

LB4 from wol elidibus is enough for me to know i need to LB3 tank when im first time on that fight, realy long wait, and suddenly LB4 it is huge cue!!

[@shadow8928]

The lack of a Crescendo symbolizes Elidibus pretty well, waiting for a climax/"ending point" he desperately wants but ultimately knows it'll never come to pass.

[@JohnDCrafton]

Except the song totally does have a climax, and it's amazing and is a big part of why I love the song so much. Garrett is wrong 100% to the point I wonder if he has even listened to the whole song.

[@uwu-cx2yc]

@@JohnDCrafton ​ The OG To the Edge's chorus imo got a bit less emotional because the instrumentation is a bit simpler & kinda muffled-sounding, while its official orchestral version's chorus (this kzbin.info/www/bejne/p2HOoHd8lpKeqbs) does sound way more majestic yet raw- has a more intense crescendo & hits harder, which makes the orchestral version sound way more heartfelt & sad to me too personally

[@Amovetv]

@@JohnDCrafton I will repeat, I really like this track. One of the most memorable in the game. But from a rock song aspect it's pretty calm. It has an intentionally slow tempo that keeps throughout the entire track. That chorus brings 80's Ballad energy compared to Who Brings Shadow which goes FULL METAL.

[@beatrixkaelin5120]

@@Amovetv There's sort of a reason that To the Edge isn't all out a Rock song. While it feels like it already is a PRIMALS song, it's not. This is the base version of the Trial Song, there's a PRIMALS version which goes harder, and an Orchestral Version which goes in a different direction, being more tragic and quiet... I would try to suggest they, or at least Garrett listen to listen to those versions, but I will hold off because they might be used in the Shadowbringer Ultimates whenever those happen.

[@DreadKyller]

@@Amovetv This is why I feel ignoring narrative impact is frankly folly. Even on your 100'th run of a trial or dungeon the story of it will paint your experience with the visuals, bosses, mechanics and music. The music in these dungeons are designed to fit thematically with the narrative, so ignoring its role in coloring your experience doesn't make sense. Ranking purely on how intense or enjoyable the music is in isolation does nothing to address the emotional connection you get to the song given its story placement. Rather than purely ranking based on the songs raw appeal outside of context, that doesn't match with how people actually experience it. How well a piece of music matches the tone of the fight given the context surrounding it is far more important and a useful benchmark than the subjective interest of the music in a vacuum.

[@divinedragoonkain]

I think the disconnect here is that the veterans of the game have had a longer time to be used to fights that give you a full limit break bar before some big attack from the boss, like Omega or Alexander... and were able to figure it out by the third pull. Timing is a bit dicey, though for sure. Seat of Sacrifice is one of my favorite trials because there's so much that's a callback to your own character's abilities. Melee limit break 1, Ranged Phys limit break 2, Black Mage limit break 3... a big boosted version of Dragonfire Dive, calling in Bahamut-lookalikes like with Summoner, calling in a ninja for mudras, and even popping Hallowed Ground if you melee LB him in the second half while he isn't animation locked. The music is meaningful from Soken's time writing it during his fight with cancer, and I have to disagree that it doesn't hit a crescendo. The climax is definitely that part that starts up, "In monochrome melodies our tears are painted in red" with the full weight of the Amaurot melody behind it, and it feeling like the rest of the song was a build up to that chorus. The fight definitely felt like a full circle where we were not only fighting someone diametrically opposed to us, but also a reflection of us. We confronted our enemy, and saw ourselves in him.

[@thealmasy4360]

SoS is definitely a fight that has a fuck ton of small details and the more you know about the game the more you appreciate it mechanics wise and visually

[@nahuel3433]

I remember thinking that while all of shadowbringers has me fighting as the warrior of darkness, it's seat of sacrifice the first time I felt it. Being the warrior that is fighting against the avatar of all heroism for the actual good of the world? hell yes!

[@LikeAFemaleDog]

Maybe it's because I didn't hear about the "tanks don't use LB3" comment when I started tanking. But to me, that moment on the fight against Elidibus made sense. He's charging up his strongest attack, so you have to charge up your strongest defence, and thus LB3 as a tank.

[@Xanthanarium]

yeah, and the "You must transcend your limits" line (or however it's put) to me made sense at the time, though I know they didn't see it at first and I think it's reasonable to chalk that up to being livestreaming; I know even if you're not interacting with chat, you're still subconsciously putting on a show.

[@EternaltheGrey]

Pretty much. If you have the time to spot that he's got *four* full LB bars, it feels obvious you need everything you've got to deflect it.

[@jdent8561]

The last Alexander fight requires a tank LB as well, though it's a raid not a trial technically. Also, the game does have a habit of literally telling the player when they will need to do an LB3. There's always some written text/dialogue that says something to the effect of "You must transcend your limits" but it's easy to miss when all the other stuff is going on. You can see it at 29:10 here "Transcend your limits and weather the gathering storm".

[@TOjJeto]

The alex LB is also easier to pull off by having an actual timer, for SoS, you pretty much have to sorta guess it or hope someone points you when to do it.

[@CasualCoreK]

The lack of a timer on that ult is how i learned it's possible for a tank LB3 to go off in the MIDDLE of a check and save only half the party

[@Narshe1412]

Wasn't it required too in last coil fight?

[@maracaegrizzley8734]

I will be absolutely honest. "Insanity", the theme for Crown of the Immaculate, is one of my favorite tracks in the game. It's right up there with the arrangement of "Answers" that shows up in Coils. There's just something about that song that just... it's my absolute favorite part of that fight and I'm always glad to get the Trial because then I get to hear it.

[@nathanprime2434]

Same, That track left such an impression on me. I never forgot it.

[@moodudable]

i love the piano

[@nahuel3433]

Woah. To me ti's good but I don't like the one horn near the start that just sounds like a car went by fast through the recording, it's kinda weird. Other than that the song is great to me but that one horn does throw it down.

[@TarundiMC]

It's definitely the piano at the beginning for me. It perfectly captures the grandiose stage. I'd absolutely put it over Invincible, which I'm more in agreement with Kyle's initial analysis that it's just standard well done epic music for me, it doesn't stand out at all.

[@aurianamaraine378]

Still getting through this but I MUST DEFEND the honor of Crown of the Immaculate. Y'all said that they made it not so tough because it's just a leveling trial and they want to keep people moving, but LET ME TELL YOU. Week 1 with minimum gear, we were using tank LB2 and LB3 on his charge phase because he was JUST THAT STRONG. Both he and Titania, Titania especially, were very hard as MSQ trials in comparison to SB's, and it's a little sad that the stat squish and secondary stat syncing made them as easy as they are now.

[@MsSjofn]

God doing Titania week one was fucking hell, and I remember wiping a bunch on Innocence that week too. HIt was my first experience failing stuff because the DPS was too low rather than people taking too much damage and cascade failing. Which was a little frustrating as a tank, but what can you do. :P

[@Kekira]

This gives EX1 vibes to a degree. That fight was punishing week 1.

[@firedrake110]

I love how the guys' first exposure to "Transcend your limits to survive" was 5.3, and they had zero clue what it meant even after a wipe or two lol

[@calzonexiv]

If it helps, Fire almost always means STOP (aka don't move or attack for about 3-4 seconds) and Ice almost always means KEEP MOVING (basically run around and don't stop until after the attack ends). In SoS they also have a play button and pause button symbol in the center when the icon pops up over your head (which you can see at 29:49), so you can look at that to figure out if you stop or move.

[@jonwaller8083]

"Invincible" might be the first time Garrett's gone to bat for one of my favourite tracks, love to see it

[@den7012]

36:15 Personally never actually played FF1 - Seat of Sacrifice is my favourite trial in the game. I really enjoy how well telegraphed everything in the fight is, and how you have to actually pay attention to EVERYTHING going on to not continuously fail the mechanics. Unlike Hades where its lowkey very easy and non-punishing, despite being not very well telegraphed at times. Maybe I just clicked with it faster and didn’t feel frustrated over the LB bc I ran the final Alexander fight like 30 times on paladin so I immediately knew we needed to LB3, idk lol Personally just enjoyed SoS more, respect to you for not tho 👍

[@KiddDaPhoenix]

I feel called out. I think Seat of Sacrifice is top of the top and I loved the FF1 reference. It's just the whole damn package. Don't mind dying once or twice if the new tank hasn't figured out tank LB yet, I'll wait. And I'll snap my fingers when appropriate.

[@elvininfante307]

Watching Garret convince Kyle that the 2nd half of the Hades fight music is top tier was a journey I wasn’t prepared to go on. But I’m glad you guys did. Another banger vid, lads!!

[@Avaene]

"Our most facetious and asinine Wall yet" You mean it's your most hilarious and awesome yet. The existential, slightly unhinged chaos was exactly what I needed to counter a frustrating week.

[@Amovetv]

Happy to provide aid!

[@shiburu]

as people have already mentioned, you will always know if there's a required tank LB3 as some text stating something along the lines of "transcend limits" appear on screen during a boss' wind up, since you need to "break your limits" by limit breaking! you will encounter another situation like this in later content, so for very thematic and super powerful lore wise bosses it would be wise to keep an eye out

[@Iymarra]

The second half of the second phase of Dying Gasp will forever be awesome. "Has the Wardens' light won free!? No..." "Damn you... Damn your wretched blessing!"

[@ericbright1742]

That song, "Invincible," is a culmination, in so many ways. A KZbin comment on the song that has stuck with me said "This is the first boss that sounds like he's actually trying to kill us," and it is true. Other bosses would kill anyone you put in front of them. Hades is actively trying to kill *specifically* us, and the music *roars* that. The song tells me "you must give it your all, _because he is."_

[@gOBSTONE]

Those two lines are great... but when people mention those they often forget what the next line hades says is: "That light split the world! And every life upon it!"

[@UmatsuObossa]

​@@gOBSTONEYeah, that bit really hammers home how justified Emet's hate of the light is. Imagine how traumatic if would be to have literally your entire world and everyone on it obliterated, and now you're left with a bunch of primitive apes derping around the wreckage of your once nigh-perfect world.

[@CrashB111]

The Extreme makes it even better because during the transition Hades practically "summons" the ghosts of all of the dead Ascians at this point of the story.

[@Kekira]

I just realized something. Him calling Hydaelyn the Warden is some nice foreshadowing to the state of things at about lvl 84.

[@valkyriebait136]

"To the Edge" is also the track that Soken wrote in the hospital battling cancer. And once you know that, you can hear it.

[@serisothikos]

Worth distinguishing that he didn't write the *lyrics* to the song, he and his team wrote the music for it.

[@KaeyinSe]

They're aware for this and reacted to it and respected too

[@vastayanvixen685]

@@KaeyinSethey didn’t know he had cancer until fanfest when he told everyone

[@KaeyinSe]

@@vastayanvixen685 are you sure? Because in one of their livestream 5.3 they reacted to the song, the lyrics and then the video about Soken's cancer in 2021 digital fanfest. I think it's a thank you stream they reacted and this was before fanfest. So they had HUGE respect for Soken

[@hohemheim1985]

@@KaeyinSethis^

[@komurmaldeb]

Perhaps worth considering re: seat of sacrifice LB, aside from on release when everything is new and people are dying a lot more on average since nobody knows how things work yet, usually the cotank in a trial will pop the LB3 at the right time if they see you're new and aren't using it. Your mods, however, were happy to let you figure it out the hard way. Also, the tank LB3 in Alexander *is* mandatory to survive! Though, SoS is the first time a mandatory LB3 appears within the MSQ proper

[@TurinTurambar200]

Seat of Sacrifice below Jade Stoa is certainly...a thing

[@savagehowler]

Seat is one of those fights I love seeing come up in roulette because I always look hoping to see someone is in cutscenes. So many great fights are enhanced when you know someone is seeing it for the first time.

[@CasualCoreK]

I sometimes peep trial PF for first time clear groups of stuff like SoS, Dying Gasp, [SPOILER], [BIGGER SPOILER], and [BIGGEST SPOILER] because it's so refreshing to be there for someone's experience.

[@savagehowler]

@CasualCoreK Done that before lol. [Biggest Spoiler] with first timers is probably my favourite experience in the game

[@CasualCoreK]

@@savagehowler and then you can convince them to go MINE!

[@Deode-d4h]

I love how the Titania and Vauthry trial discussion could be distilled to "HOW BANGER IS IT!? IS IT THIS MUCH OF A BANGER OR NOT AS MUCH OF A BANGER AS THIS BANGER!?"

[@elias.t]

What banger takes me?

[@Sarisoma]

A thought based on the SoS trial music discussion about it 'missing' something, that seems very apt for Elidibus himself too...

[@Anddroiden]

i predicted in the last trial video that you would need to make a new category or move every trial a tier down for the ShB trials, i am happy you opened with my prediction being spot on

[@HealingBlight]

Sophia and Sephriot theme music are probably 2 of the biggest sleeper tracks of the entire game, sit down and give them a listen if you haven't.

[@Tazrael]

I agree that it feels like To The Edge never reaches a crescendo, but I think that's the point. Of course there's something missing. The world is sundered. There is no riding home.

[@Zakjuh]

I love how it's equal parts action and equal parts melancholy. That's what makes that song so powerful to me. I listen to it, and I'm reminded of Elidibus' sorrows, while also having something to bang my head to. It's kind of dissonant, but it works really well. I can't stop loving To The Edge. Invincible, I appreciate, but it kind of falls flat for me beyond just being "wow, that's pretty good." If I had to give my top 5 list of XIV OSTs, it wouldn't exactly be a part of it.

[@Pina-Azwel]

It's funny, cause I had the opposite opinion about Dying Gasp and SoS. I love Dying Gasp, don't get me wrong, but I always just get way more excited when I land in SoS when I do roulettes.

[@arathain2]

Ok, hol' up. Pause the video. Insanity is mid? Forgettable? One of the best, most musically creative, most narratively rich tracks in the have? This, my good sirs, will not stand. That desperate, fragile virtuosic piano strikes you first. The grating discordancy of the synth over the melodic pomposity of the orchestra and male chorus. We hear a lone, distant soprano calling for compassion in tragedy (For whom weeps the storm?), and hear her drowned out and shouted down by arrogant brass and harsh male chanting. Ahem. Thanks for your excellent work, gents. Your opinions are delightfully tied to passion and thoughtfulness. (But maybe give Insanity another listen, eh?).

[@arathain2]

Ok, I just heard Kyle sing Ravana's theme and everything is forgiven, and several of the next things you do wrong are also forgiven.

[@lightofthelives]

I still wonder to this day why titania isn't voiced in the beginning of the fight LOL it's been years and they're still not voiced in that one cutscene xD

[@charcustom9875]

Man that Amano story is so cool. Really awesome how that circled back around to you now playing through and covering the series that he is predominantly known for.

[@VioletteValkyria]

Seat of Sacrifice holds a special place in my heart because it was my first ever Extreme (not counting unsynced) and holy shit, what a trip that was! We were doing it blind as some people in our group had done it before, but it was still one of my best experience! You guys are in for a ride when you do get to doing that extreme!

[@seekittycat]

😂😂😂 I love the chaotic deranged energy of this video. Great editing!

[@TheRedKnaveLP]

"I like big lady." Pack it up boys we have the quote of the year.

[@Zakjuh]

Immaculate tastes.

[@cparle87]

Watching Garrett be an orchestra director for the Hades fight fills me with joy.

[@twilightchaosangel011]

Sounds like you need a mini-episode to throw Warring Triad on the wall!

[@Raizan01]

And Hildibrand trials.

[@tyrusdalet]

And weapon trials!

[@AxelFireDancer]

I'd love to see this whole list revisited as a wall of extreme's and for you to compare the normal wall to the extreme wall and which trials end up changing positions. :)

[@VashimuXIV]

Great by Shadowbringers standards is just bloody Incredible. Though I’d put Warrior of Light Elidibus at the very best of the best.

[@necroguy11]

I think the normal is fine being at bottom of Epic, the Extreme is hands down the best trial instance in the game and it isn’t even close IMO

[@reyennarhel2505]

At first I wasn't sure I agreed on the Seat of Sacrifice verdict, but when I thought about it, I realized that my love for it stems from the Extreme, and in particular the fact that it was one I worked SO HARD to learn and grind. Speaking of - I know y'all are saving SoS EX for something, but I have to say, I can't WAIT to see it

[@DyneOnline]

While I accept your opinion that Innocence's theme is the least memorable of the trial themes you discussed today, I would like to offer a counter argument: Go back and listen to the piano on that track. It's some of Keiko's best work. She goes at full tilt from start to finish.

[@ColorOfSakura]

Obviously everyone is allowed their own opinions and I'm not saying that anything said in the video is wrong or anything. But I do want to offer a counterpoint about Insanity as a track: My thing about Insanity is that it doesn't seem like a terribly impressive track *until* you listen to it with some headphones and without the noise of the game coming through. There is a LOT going on in the background of the track and in the lower parts that don't necessarily register as obviously when listening to it in game. Its a heck of a lot more than just the Shadowbringers boss theme with a coat of paint slapped over it - it just doesn't really SEEM that way at first glance. It definitely has the ShB Main Theme as a leitmotif (as a lot of Soken's work does in ShB especially) but given that Innocence *is* the Final Lightwarden, I think them using the dungeon boss theme as a baseline makes a TON of sense in this case.

[@necromandy]

I'm with Kyle that I absolutely love Susanoo and any time I get it in my trial roulettes I'm super excited because the track is awesome, the voiced lines are hilarious, and the giant sword bit in the middle is so much fun for tanks imo than the LB3 necessary mechs like in Seat of Sacrifice. I personally never felt like something was 'missing' from the song for Seat of Sacrifice, but honestly that would be thematically appropriate for Elidibus!

[@vgpowerlord]

You say Crown of Immaculate is easy, but I can tell you as a Red Mage main that it's one of the normal trials that I tend to do the most rezzes on.

[@jtspender]

I think Crown of Immaculate is actually one of the ones most hurt by baseline power creep, people knowing which add to target, etc.

[@lchigoKurosaki]

Man what a entertaining video, probably my favorite wall of trials so far

[@StuffedWuci]

For people who want to try Extreme - definitely agree with Crown of Immaculate - If you want to know how hard Crown of Immaculate extreme is, I got it in mentor roulette, it was the first time I did it synced, everyone else was first time, we cleared in 1 pull. I didn't even know it was the EX until half way through

[@OriginAndEnding]

I 100% agreed with y’all’s ranking of these trials and the subsequent ones. I was concerned about the shade thrown at crown of the immaculate(One of my Favs) but you made great points and dying grasp I mean gasp is legendary in design and music

[@TheoVorster]

Oh yeah, why did the optional Warring Triads trials never get ranked on the wall when the Four Lords trials did? Also IIRC apparently the opening of the Titania fight is supposed to have spoken dialogue but sone glitch/bug that’s never been found/fixed has turned it off. Though that may just be heresy I have heard.

[@Meowlo]

Another fun discussion! I love the wall and how it's evolving as y'all experience more of the game!

[@Lutehammer]

After 6.0 I would love to see y'all go back and NG+ Warring Triad to give it it's due and a proper assessment. I wish I had done that at some point and still plan to do so. Those boss fights are so fun and come up so rarely, I'd love to see y'all's opinions on them now.

[@Sarisoma]

I have only started watching and I am loving the arguments about adjusting the wall!

[@Eruvadhril]

Even with To The Edge being played at lower volume while Kyle and Garrett talk over the top of it, I get full-body goosebumps hearing it.

[@keagian8115]

My chocobo is writhing on the ground but you both made excellent points, they were honest and I can't refute them; very well done.

[@TheIvoryDingo]

Garrett: "All the Trials are on the Wall!" Still doesn't have the Warring Triad trials on it.

[@ChrisMorray]

It's been so long...

[@Maria_Erias]

Another amazing discussion video. I live for these! ♥

[@sweetpanic705]

Bringing up Dying "Grasp" reminds me why I sub and support. The internet needs more of this🎉😂

[@Cyc1one62]

While it takes a bit of a grind to get back to it because of where it is the MSQ, I would highly recommend going back with the New Game Plus feature and trying out the solo duties of Cape Westwind and Lahabrea. While they arent going to blow you away, and I feel like they shouldn't really be on this wall, I definitely have a new appreciation for them when I recently re-did the ARR MSQ.

[@VideoCrimzon]

Looking forward to seeing where the sorrows of Werlyt fall on this list too. Some banger songs and mechanics in those too!

[@xbree_]

Hearing yall talk about Titania is pure comedy

[@amymcwilliams24601]

My feathers remain unruffled. XD Shadowbringers was the first expansion where I did the trials as current content and did the extremes at level, so I love them all more than the previous ones, which I mostly have done unsynced. But I loved your discussion of everything! And you got the top one right. ;)

[@nslater1388]

These Trials ARE the best.. …so far.

[@lovelywillow90]

SoS is one of my favorite trials in the game, but it was also the first extreme I progged current so it kinda has the same feel you guys have for Shinryu.

[@seekittycat]

I love Invincible! When the choir starts singing like we're in Dark souls and Emet goes BEHOLD A SORCERER OF ELD! TREMBLE BEFORE MY GLORY This is what I wanted to see and hear when I fight Emet

[@MsSjofn]

I LOVE when a fight is building to a tank LB3, and part of why is because it's so rare that something that important depends on me as a tank in general, especially in normal trials/raids. Also most tanks don't have DON'T TELL ME ANY MECHANICS EVEN AFTER THE FIFTH WIPE rules in place when going into these. :P

[@Reinshark]

I agree with Garrett wholeheartedly on “To The Edge”: it’s fine, but it doesn’t go hard enough for me to LOVE it. Nice to hear someone else express this opinion.

[@Msyk1290]

Obligatory comment about how my feathers are ruffled and I disagree with that one specific pick for that one esotheric reason. (I loved seeing you guys giggle so much this video, its a joy to see you two bounce off of each other)

[@aetherwind3884]

So my FF1 nostalgia has more to do with the game than the manual art, which is unfortunately where the Amano art was relegated here in the USA. The game and the gut wrenching sadness when a church busy buddy burned the cartridge for being Satanic.

[@Keira_Blackstone]

It's neat to see your perspectives on this since they're quite different from my own- Insanity is one of my favorite tracks and sees a lot of play when I'm listening to music, and while I love 5.0 and really do see why it's a lot of people's favorite part of the game, 5.3 is WAY more my vibe. Regardless it's fun to see you guys talk about this stuff and I can't wait to see your thoughts on the Endwalker trials- though at some point I'd love to see you guys add Warring Triad and Sorrows of Werlyt here.

[@KitsuneZeal]

One thing that is common for when you need to use tank LB is the line "You must break one's limit" shows up. That is both the key to tell you that you need to and the timing for it. Right after that appears you can LB and you are set. The game does not tell you that at all so it isn't very well designed but it is there in all the fights you need to tank LB

[@sonicroze]

You guys did awesome with this list. I will definitely have my differences with you guys, the lack of prior FF stuff does make you that "purity test" I suppose. Your comments on the first dungeon in Endwalker said as much. I know full well how many players went "It's from FFIV!" and you will hear that a *lot* with this expansion. That is well within my wheelhouse so I recognize my nostalgia goggles are on tight :D

[@ArakDBlade]

I got a colored GG by my name that proves i pay rent to live in Garrett's head 🤣 Also measuring time in Garrett hair is brilliant

[@johniiigaisano5576]

Garret's Hair is a Residence Ward. Which plot you on? 😂

[@ArakDBlade]

@@johniiigaisano5576 lost the lottery. Gotta wait for new wards to grow

[@johniiigaisano5576]

@@ArakDBlade They seem to be adding new Wards, just hold on there!

[@alibutterfly82]

If this might help for remembering the fire (Pyretic) and ice (don't remember the name) debuffs, for myself, I try to think about it in terms of what would you do IRL if those kinds of things were happening to you... if you're overheated, you're probably going to sit down/stand still for a bit until you cool down. If you're freezing, you're probably going to be in constant motion trying to warm yourself up. These do come up in later fights in the game as well, so probably good to try to learn them if you're so inclined 🙂 Good list. The only thing I might quibble about is putting the Seat of Sacrifice a few places lower than the Dying Gasp - for me, they're pretty much neck and neck. Emet's involvement in both is a strong contributor to that, as he's a character that I've just super-bonded my psyche to for whatever reason... so whenever he shows up, EMOTIONAL DAMAGE. When I realized it was him in the Seat of Sacrifice at the midpoint... HOO BOY, I was definitely an emotionally compromised teenage girl for the rest of the fight, which made the whole experience just hit SUPER hard, for me. Also, since the melody of "To the Edge" has been a favorite of mine since we first arrived in The Tempest, I would also argue that the song doesn't need any improvement at all. To me, it's perfect just as it is. All of that said though, The Dying Gasp/the end of 5.0 also hit me like a freight train, so... that's why they're basically even, in my own personal experience. BUT, that's the beautiful thing about this game - we each relate to it in our own ways and form our own memories and bonds to it.

[@akrob1152]

The tank lb3 tbh is not as much of a design issue compared to the fact that if *even one* person fails that qte the entire party party wipes. And there's no way to know who failed it. People meme about the griefing potential of a certain mech in a later fight but that ain't got shit on the SoS qte. Regarding your misgivings about the tank lb: I would say that it's not really a terrible design decision; not stellar, but also not terrible. Tank lb3 is completely useless in normal content otherwise except for fringe cases, and it's nice that there are some occasions where tanks get to use it. You are correct in that it does absolutely nothing to teach about when to use tank lb. I would also say that, in this case, you were by and large a victim of the way you chose to experience it. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of players are not going to be going through seat of sacrifice in a full premade, blind, and with people that have agreed to not say *anything* about the mechanics of the raid, and more specifically with a cotank who refuses to lb3 in the place of the streamer tank due to not wanting to spoil. In the average party where one or even both tanks were new, there might be one wipe and the party would usually just explain/remind that there needs to be a tank lb3 and that's that. There may or may not be another wipe if the tanks get the timing wrong, but that's usually it. Because of these circumstances, you ended up being essentially trapped until Garrett figured out he had to tank lb3. Not a great thing, but also not an issue even remotely relevant for the majority of the people who did SoS for the first time. Hence why most would remember SoS very very fondly, as they never experienced that particular pain point in the way you guys did. Curious to see if doing the extreme (you guys are gonna do SoS ex right?) would change y'alls opinion any. It's widely regarded as one of the best extreme trials they've ever made, for good reasons.

[@Selene467]

Loving the wall videos. I wonder though, do you guys also plan on a Wall of Alliance Raids? Unless you already have those? I know you've done long videos of your first experience of each but I'd love to see what your guys' favorites are. Enjoying the struggle as you decide where to concede and where to stand your ground with all these trials :D

[@KLGChaos]

The back and forth never fails to disappoint. Lol. I agree with the list this time personally, which is nice.

[@heyimbilliejean]

I will point out, and maybe some people didn't notice this, that the game flashes up a message basically telling you to tank lb that also helps you time it (just any time after that message pops up before the attack hits you).

[@Scarabswarm]

Another great video guys. Thank you!

[@25xxfrostxx]

My personal hell: I was very stupid in my 20s and ended up with permanent hearing loss in multiple ranges. I am incapable of hearing the ticking clock in the Amaurot theme or Seat of Sacrifice. I didn't even know it was there until people mentioned it about a year after I did the fight. Seat of sacrifice was an epic moment in the story and it was incredibly satisfying but I think it did have to lose points for having two "do the thing or you die" moments. Including the hammer on your keyboard in the shadow realm and if one person doesn't get it, everyone dies. As a spectacle (visually and musically) it was amazing but as a fight, it broke its own flow too much.

[@cocotaem5101]

To the Edge is so so so so so good and hearing how Soken wrote it makes it even better. And Insanity (Innocence trial) is one of my favourites, I love the piano and the bass drop ahhh. Shadowbringers continues to be my favourite expac. The entirety of SoS and the bgm didn't land for me until I finished EW and went back to it - full on tears while headbanging while dodging light swords. I think Seat of Sacrifice would've been better if someone hinted at the lb and didn't make you redo it 3 times lol Usually if there's a sprout tank doing SoS in roulette, I'd give them time to pop lb before I do it so we don't wipe.

[@Megumi-dz1mm]

On release, Crown of the Immaculate was not so easy. People wiped to it just as much as they wiped to Titania. If you don't do the add phase correctly, the one add gets too many stacks and then you wipe. Nowadays, failing that mechanic is completely survivable so people rarely wipe to it.

[@rohitnair9083]

Watching the vid at 2x speed made the opening few minutes enjoyably chaotic lol.

[@TheDwagonHD]

personally, SoS music is one of my fav tracks. just because of the lyrics and how well it ties into the Ascians Story line: "Like broken angels, wingless cast from heavens gate. (Our slumbering demons awake) We only fly when falling, falling far from grace. (Hell take us heaven can wait) And like a message in a bottle cast to sea (Disgraced, untold and unseen) Quick to their ends, our candles burn until we're free" all i say is, the lyrics hit hard in the feels for me everytime.

[@TheDwagonHD]

also going to add: the Tank LB is pretty easy when you get told the timing. and if you played it normaly, as a tank. and failed your first time, then someone in the team would know the timing and tell it. and you wanted it blind, so you kinda had to figure out the timing yourself. which isnt normal. because as you know, the playerbase is pretty willing to explain what is happening, especially if its a sprout and the message "a member of the party has yet to finish this duty" appears.

[@xiaocheng6643]

Just wanted to say, if you're impressed with the Dancing Plague trial stage now, wait until the graphics update! The new lighting looks incredible!

[@onyx.avenger]

Re: Seat of Sacrifice music: 1. I love that it remixes existing themes. It's one of the coolest tricks that Soken employs. 2. That intro guitar riff is siiiiiiiiick. 3. I don't think there can really be a crescendo to the music because there's no way for them to know when you'll defeat him. If there was an enrage timer (or a faster one; I've never seen enrage on non-EX) then maybe they could do it? They kinda save the big crescendo for the scene where you bind Elidibus, which I think is fitting.

[@Zakjuh]

Didn't ruffle my feathers at all until Seat of Sacrifice. It's one of my favorite trials in the game, beating out The Dying Gasp by quite a lot, fight and music wise. Storywise... eh? In context of it being built up in practically 2 or so patches, yes. Without that context, just straight on? No. But fair to you, you still put it in Epic, so I can't argue with that. All the other choices are more than justified, especially Crown of the Immaculate. I'm shocked to see Hells' Kier score so high, though. Last I checked, I thought you were pretty down on it. Glad to see that you appreciate, it, though. The Suzaku fight is pretty nice. I'd probably boot The Singularity Reactor out myself if I'm being honest. If we're going by Heavensward standards? Then yeah, it earned its place, but if we're comparing it to the trials that came after? Not so much. It's become one of the trials (alongside Whorleater, Limitless Blue and Thornmarch) that I kind of hate getting in duty finder nowadays.

[@tinybee7780]

It's definitely surprising that it took this long for the game to make the tank LB3 mandatory to proceed, especially as part of the MSQ. Not everyone played the Alexander Raids after all. 26:23 Emet is the kind of boomer who would be addicted to either RTS or 4X games. I can definitely see him play something like the Civ games, it's the perfect kind of game for him.

[@TheRealElemento]

From my point of view the intend of this mandatory tank LB3 was to teach tanks this type of mechanic. Before there was only Alexander to have this mechanic, but to use them in future trials they have to teach you to be aware of this kind of ability. Under this perspective I found it a good point to teach the mechanic and implemented at a good point of time. In the Alexander fight the tank lb3 was so late after quite a few deadly mechanics. Here we have to lb3 right after the part were the boss is finished with teaching the basic versions of his mechanics.

[@serisothikos]

Emet would never play as Canada.

[@silvergrove8517]

Tank LB is the only LB the game goes out of its way to teach you without breaking the 4th wall. The other LB types are taught to you by other players.

[@Doubleleylines]

What angel wakes me is one if those ff songs of like oh this is a fun song. Then you listen to the lyrics and its like ... Ohhh ... Oh ;-;

[@Salt_Mage]

Fire/Ice is pretty simple. Fire gives the Pyretic debuff does damage for every action you take. Hence the Pause icon, you stop doing anything until the debuff wears off. Ice has a Play icon because you need to be moving to avoid being frozen to the floor.

[@Nuitari08]

I will now see Titania as Rita Repulsa super sizing her minions

[@Spookybluelights]

'To The Edge' is one of the most complex and nuanced pieces of art in this game and Garrett is just like "It's fine. 🤷🏼" Like, your editor was correct. 😭

[@spiner9099]

Y'all need to put the Weapon/Werlyt series up on this wall too!

[@herebejamz]

Speaking of Cape Westwind, have y'all done the solo duty version of it yet? It's pretty hype.

[@chiekokurokumo]

Dying Gasp music reminds me of the music at the end of LOTR when Mt Doom and Mordor collapse/explode.

[@andrewg319]

Should Cape Westwind and the Steps of Faith even be on the wall anymore since they are no longer trial fights but solo duties?

[@chaossquall]

Why they have been grayed out

[@Zakjuh]

@@chaossquall Yep, and the two of them did it while they were still trials, so they have the right to still judge it for what it was back when it was that. The real question is: have they done the updated Thornmarch? Is the rating based on the update or pre-update?

[@andrewg319]

@@chaossqualldidn’t notice that. Oops

[@scottwagner2566]

3:22 I have that kupo sound as the notification sound on my phone and I got really confused for a second.

[@skilde]

Akshually Alexander taught us that "Time is a flat round shape."

[@mexchaos6666]

I do want to debate the tank LB for SoS. Throughout the fight you see elidibus using all sorts of LBs. He uses melee LB 1, then phys ranged LB 2 and lastly black mage LB3, which all do more damage then the previous one, so when you see him preparing LB4 and you have LB 3 ready, you'd expect the attack will probably kill you unless you tank LB. You might not realize the first run but you can see how much damage the attack deals and come to a conclusion that way. Also the "dont worry about tank LB" advice was a bad one. Even if its never used it doesnt hurt to have it someone in a hot bar.

[@Imurashi]

Only because I happened to see Preach finish the game as I've never played it myself, but your hair currently looks like the main antagonist from FF12 today Garrett. It's a good look.

[@ShakeyMac18]

I take friendly umbrage at your dislike of the WoL from SoS. As an old school FF friend seeing actual Mr. Final Fantasy himself made manifest in my MMO was fucking lit. Part of this feeling comes from the characters that were summoned by Elidibus. Each one represented a specific character from FF4. The archer/bard girl was Rosa, the summoner was Rydia, the two Lalafell casters were Palom and Porom, the dark knight was Cecil, the warrior was Cid and the ninja was Edge. For a huge FF4 fan such as myself, seeing such a huge FF4 reference at this stage in the game was amazing, because prior to this fight all we had was Kain references in DRG (mostly the armor) and a handful of Cecil references in some DRK armor/weapons and a few abilities.

[@ladyopheliagames]

Agree with pretty much everything said. I will say, if you want "To The Edge" to go harder, listen to the live version by The Primals. It is HARD.

[@Angarato86]

its weird how your history can change your opinion, i grew up with FF so seeing the warrior of light himself in all its 3d splendour was fucking epic. ontop of the crystal tower, with that heart wrenching song playing. 1 of my favorite fights in the game. and yeah they could have explained the limit break bit abit better but you do see elidibus charging up his limit break. i think in the long run you might change your mind about this fight

[@nastycrimeboi5085]

It's time to Ride home once again, for we must bring the Shadows to the Wall of Dungeons/Existentialism and it'll be glorious (and chaotic.) Good to see that Shadowbringers broke and remade Garrett to an extent that not even a Rejoining would do.