Commander VS S13E5: ??? vs ??? vs ??? vs ??? [EDH]

[@codyculp7223]

John wouldn't win since he didn't cast approach from his hand the second time

[@Acraviotot]

Not relevant but he also didn't cast it from his hand the first time. But yeah, that second cast was the real criminal.

[@StephenJones-il9ok]

Also, if they didn't cut to game over, it would have been exiled

[@kellenbachman4529]

also on the irrelevant side time stop should have been exiled

[@r4ge091]

@@StephenJones-il9ok nah it goes back into library because mission briefing says IF it would be put into graveyard.

[@ashaylangovender2342]

Rulings for Approach of the second Sun state that it may be cast from anywhere if its the first time its cast. The second time its cast however must be from hand in order to win

[@xKaktusfighterx]

Just to note: Jonathan was right about Dream Eater. You have to announce the target after surveiling, since it is written as "when you do". That's a fairly new way for triggers to work, they are called "reflexive triggers". Source: Am a Judge

[@Xlapus]

Sir_Sunny Can confirm. Source: I am a Level 2.

[@najomage]

Can confirm secondly. Source: that’s how it works on MODO and Arena, also had a judge call at an event about it

[@link200456]

Wait.. i thought to win with second sun you have to cast it from hand. I think that text was missed by everyone..Mission briefing just says you can cast it not cast it as if its in your hand.

[@tearsunshed]

I know! I don't think they read it at all

[@Skywarp2099]

@@tearsunshed The first cast of Approach can be cast from anywhere. It doesn't matter where it was cast from, but the second cast - the one that matters - HAS TO BE cast from your hand or it doesn't count.

[@viperion_nz]

/facepalm. C'mon #CMDRVS guys, reading the card pls

[@ashaylangovender2342]

*Attention Director Kyle, Justin Parnell, Jonathan Suarez, Stephen Green, Jeremy Noell and all other members of the Commander VS team* John didn't win. Approach of the Second Sun specifically states "If this spell was cast from your hand and you've cast another spell named Approach of the Second Sun this game, you win the game. Otherwise, put Approach of the Second Sun into its owner's library seventh from the top and you gain 7 life." It was cast from his graveyard. Therefore, unless there was a card played between Mission Briefing resolving and Approach of the Second Sun being cast which puts it in his hand, he doesn't win. Director Kyle, you missed a big problem.

[@thedismayer1196]

Actually, it would go back to the deck because of the "otherwise" clause as the spell resolves it goes to the deck and not the grave so it would not be exiled.

[@jasonmolisani1864]

You are correct that John shouldn't win, but the approach should go back into the library on resolution. Since the first "if" part of Approach isn't satisfied, the "otherwise" part would resolve. Since the Approach isn't going to end up in a graveyard, Mission Briefing doesn't exile it. While we are discussing problems, it is worth noting that Mission Briefing doesn't target. You just choose on resolution.

[@ashaylangovender2342]

The Dismayer, half of the "otherwise" clause is met, it is the second time its been cast just not from his hand. You may be right, but from my understanding of the English language and Statistical inference dealing with clauses, both prerequisites must be met for the clause to take effect (the "and" in the rules text makes the clauses mutually inclusive). Seeing as the first clause is null but the second clause is met, the resulting otherwise clause is made null causing the effect to be null, sending the card to the graveyard from which Mission Briefing exiles it due to its own effect. To reitirate, you may possibly be right, but seeing as gatherer has no ruling on a case such as this I must fall back to my knowledge of the language and inference of Statistics to resolve the conundrum

[@jasonmolisani1864]

@@ashaylangovender2342 I read it as: If (A and B), do (C). Otherwise do (D). When you cast the spell it WILL do either C or D. There shouldn't be a situation where it resolves, but does nothing. For those who don't follow my substitutions: A = this spell was cast from your hand B = you've cast another spell named Approach of the Second Sun this game C = You win the game D = put Approach of the Second Sun into its owner's library seventh from the top and you gain 7 life

[@ashaylangovender2342]

@Jason Molisani, you could potentially be right, however I doubt Wizards R&D planned for this specific instance of ruling. From my gaming knowledge, I've had a few instances where I've cast a card and it had no effect (mainly because there was no valid target for the effect). So I grant that the card may go back into his library. I don't personally think it should though

[@vader1137]

Funny is John keeps tapping Yenneth (his commander), when the card has Flying, VIGILANCE and menace.

[@HarbingerOfDuh]

Was coming here to say this. Would have made a difference in how Jeremy chose to attack that first time.

[@ChadJShonk]

And as much as I love the Susan Sarandom, you guys need to set some rules about power level. That Golem deck was hot garbage and John's was a fully tuned and operational deck that anyone would be happy playing at their LGS. It just makes it so lopsided and Stephen was able to do absolutely nothing and while we all know it's not a fun situation to be in, it's also not fun to watch. Even if he had found that black source, his hand was still a bunch of terrible cards. At least the LLL deck had good cards in it. Love it when we get random but how about an "all stinkers" or "no stinkers" rule?

[@worcej11]

Typically this episode is full of shenanigans and is fun to watch, but you hit the nail on the head - this one was a little rough to enjoy when it felt like only 2 people were really playing...

[@anevilmurk4186]

In all fairness, Stephen got completely mana screwed for the majority of the game, and having all his artifacts exiled didn't help much.

[@ChadJShonk]

Deadfern82 he did, true, but i saw no evidence in the cards he was drawing and playing that that deck belonged at the same table as John's. All I ask is maybe one week they do real decks and the other they do joke / troll / theme decks because it makes the gameplay boring to see someone so outclassed. Justin's deck wasn't much better. And Jeremy was only a threat because his deck was full of difficult-to-remove mythics. The deck wasn't good. And that's fine. I love bad decks. But John's was severely overpowered at that table. He wins that game 9 out of ten times, even without screwing up Approach. None of those other decks were playing Nexus of Fate. It's their show. They'll do what they want and I love them for it. I just wish they would come to a power level concensus with these episodes as they seem to do in the others. Because this isn't the first time, if you remember the awful decks the West Brothers made them play. I'm a big fan of Esteban Verde but this is all the chair deck's fault. 😀

[@RETURNTOMONKAE]

To be fair stephen had the most life and a "decent" boardstate for the first half of the game if not longer. Jeremy using his Dying breath to exile all non legendarys screwed him

[@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299]

Hail Jeremy the king maker

[@MrDor5]

Wait how did Jonathan win, you have to cast approach from your hand to win the game?

[@budyfish9234]

Oof

[@jakecole7644]

Yeah! That's what I'm saying! @starcitygames

[@werewolf8994]

YIkerz

[@mosherj8]

He won when his opponents scooped the game.

[@zachmcmillan4060]

Never concede. Never quit. Never throw your cards. Finish the game.

[@ChadJShonk]

I normally don't have a problem with the misplays. It happens. It's part of causal EDH. John not knowing his commander has vigilance? Sloppy but whatever. Doesn't affect the game too much. Stephen missing life gain triggers only hurts him. John keeps declaring a target for Mission Briefing even though it doesn't target? No biggie. But the ending, missing such an obvious mistake, one which Justin should know better given his boy Ali's penchant for that card. Bugs me more that it was a "you win" card, which I don't generally love, and John cheesed it. Disappointing. Going to chalk it up to John's baby brain, probably exhausted. But Kyle and the others should have caught it. Love you guys. But this is a big one, not a nitpick. And for the first time, for me at least, it kind of wrecked the video. Especially with you guys talking post-game, with the card on the board, right in front of you, and us muttering to ourselves (and the comment section) that no one actually won that game.

[@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299]

#JonGoroBabyMakesMeTired

[@keaghanobrien6012]

YES!! This is by far the best kind of random-episode format, I was hoping they'd bring it back! Great video y'all :')

[@Eramiserasmus]

We demand a replay/recount on this. The Approach doesn't win John the game since he didn't cast it from hand.

[@dpbw0w]

APPROACH OF THE SECOND SUN NEEDS TO BE CAST FROM HAND TO TRIGGER WIN CONDITION OTHERWISE IT IS PUT 7TH FROM THE TOP

[@kingfuzzy2]

Good idea ...

[@modozahori]

If this spell was cast from hand...

[@kiwilover8]

Now all they need is an “oracle text” deck, where every card has to have oracle text different from the text on the card

[@kellenbachman4529]

they did suarez had to play it and justin built it, just cant remember the episode

[@michaelquinn8064]

yeh they done that, good episode

[@Skywarp2099]

Judge's Tower Commander?

[@kingfuzzy2]

Great episode 13/10 would watch again

[@m3grim]

1:18:59 With Dream Eater, you surveil first and THEN choose a target, Justin.

[@PieEater1492]

Game starts at 17:40

[@legodovakin]

So did it bug anyone else that the "ladies looking left" are in fact ladies looking right?

[@ultiplayer1]

I was thinking the same thing. I kept thinking maybe they were reversed when displayed on the screen.

[@doktorwyvern2883]

if someone in front of you facing you raises their left and, is it on your left or right side?

[@legodovakin]

Sure it'd be "your" right in your example, but they are still holding up their left hand. Do you say "someone in front of me is holding up their hand on my right"?

[@NightShadowSystem]

yup ^^

[@twinkamikaze3524]

"I've been told everything you own is in a box to the left, so it makes sense they are looking left." Jon telling it how it is. LOL

[@Apkooi1]

*In this episode, the guys start a mosh pit riot*

[@kingfuzzy2]

What a relief

[@zebhillard1]

I've got this queued up to watch later today, but just wanted to continue the brief chat I had with Justin this previous weekend and thank you all for your continued contributions. I've recently started playing /way/ more EDH and found myself enjoying the game even more now than I did before when it was solely a competitive outlet. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy winning even in EDH games, but it's a completely different feeling and I credit you folks for helping me find it.

[@aaronatkinson7018]

Looking forward to meeting you guys in December!

[@hamishian0]

Great deck and well piloted Jon!

[@jacobmccauley4843]

Just stopping by to check on the growth update, Jeremy. Scraggly hairs indeed. I approve.

[@charlessloan1963]

Dude Jeremy's and John's decks are awesome, now, time to actually watch the video haha

[@SmackyDaFrog42]

Oh I'm so happy about the deck Jeremy is playing. That is one I've wanted to build for a while, but it is pretty expensive to put together because of the mana base. Thank you Jon!

[@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299]

That mana base was unreal

[@BadGamers2024]

Can we get a playmat of the Coliseum of Randomness? @1:55

[@derpydevilbear]

No shave november and dont shave december jeremy!

[@ChadJShonk]

John didn't cheat. He has a newborn at home. He is tired beyond reason and probably had no idea what was happening. But you'd think with four other people watching the game someone would have caught it.

[@ryanhansen9779]

I believe that the official difference between a Construct and a Golem is the power source for movement. Golem are statues enchanted to move, while a Construct is full of motors or servos that can move, but are not always enchanted, much like a robot or Droid.

[@sjoerd972]

Somehow, especially this episode, Justin sounds a lot like Sheldon Cooper when he's surprised by something.

[@radsprack]

I haven't gone through ALL the comments (nor will I) but I'm surprised to see no one mention that the deck builders/submitters all had their decks in UG Boulders with corresponding colors to their playmat colors.

[@kobyhaigerty3157]

This is easily my favorite type of the randharmonicon

[@wngreen1]

You can 100% pay the kicker on Rite of Replication if you cast it off of Diluvian Primordial. You can't do alternative costs but you can do additional costs.

[@darenbarritt8682]

Great content as always guys!

[@sanosuke660]

John shouldn't have won, come y'all read the card.

[@MrUglama]

I know the idea is to have fun with deck building, but the decks should be checked for stinker level, so we dont get 3 decks and a golem guy. Awesome episode though, contreversy at the end, i can't wait for next week's banter at the beginning of the episode.

[@willomalley7619]

God deck looks awesome, nice game sorry Stephen you were super stuck on mana and that ruinous blast was pretty brutal

[@twinkamikaze3524]

"wow, Jon, Jeremy, and Director kyle west that is rough". LMAO, that was good.

[@brandonr.2807]

MASSIVE oversight...that could really matter in the future. Gotta cast that approach from your hand to win...RTFC...Also, if one of yall wants to play my deck on the Fan request episode every card starts with the letter B...its un-B-lievable...I will leave now.

[@PiroMunkie]

1:12:20 Stephen, you can definitely die from your own commander damage. It's 21 combat damage from any one commander, including your own.

[@erichallett9418]

9:30 Stephen Green thinking “How am I supposed to win with this?”

[@keep7smiling]

At 16:30 Justin says that 'creeping chill' costs 4 mana, when it clearly costs 0. Kappa

[@zargon15]

Well I am looking forward to next week seeing as Approach needs to be cast from the hand to be able to win... x.x wonder what they'll do about that one XD

[@ParadiseExile]

Hey Commander VS fans, I need a hand here. Anyone remember which video features the sitcom-like opening? I love that thing but can't remember which episode it appears in. Any help is appreciated.

[@Kcet_Team_ZS]

I think it was one of the episodes around Christmas time, but not sure what episode specifically

[@GSMcGriddle]

Anyone know if there is a general ticket price for SCG Con or if it is just the event?

[@kylemerrill1274]

Approach of the second sun: If this spell was cast FROM YOUR HAND and you've cast another spell named Approach of the Second Sun this game, you win the game. Otherwise, put Approach of the Second Sun into its owner's library seventh from the top and you gain 7 life.

[@GoodStarfish]

So I just got this idea for a Commander Vs game where your Commander can be any card that involves a vote or opponent's option like Nullhide Ferrox or whatever. Treat the non-legendaries as such, and your good to have a fun time.

[@nolanwaymire7003]

Hey, I don't think anyone has mentioned that approach has to be cast from the hand yet. So I won't either.

[@TheCeejay95]

I was pretty firmly in Team Green camp, but as soon as he mentioned Matthew Berry's rant on Alfred Morris, I became more in love. Stephen is the best shade of green...

[@dawsondemars1092]

So Jon should’ve known it was his own deck because all of the deck boxes matched their respective creator..

[@TelleoStar]

Justin with the good ol' Time Stop for five mana.

[@666thehyena]

Love it this variant of the random decks. Someone should make a deck with lots of obscure cards with complicated rules, lots of search effects, and make sure that every single card in that deck is in a foreign language...

[@TheMagicgenius]

Johns commander has vigilance and he tapped it everytime he attacked. When Urza's Ruinous Blast resolved John put his cards in his graveyard and not into exile. Then John wins by Approach of the Second sun, However the second time he doesn't cast it from his hand. Seems like a cheat is the foot.

[@davec1004]

skip to 17:56 to bypass the banter

[@randyzap6948]

That water bottle has a satisfying *clink*

[@NovaNinja22]

guys in the comments: please stop commenting about the approach of the second sun trigger. you are all wrong. They never make mistakes on commander vs.

[@BrianRockMedia]

Can you share deck lists?

[@achijatheizzetbard]

My biggest pet peeve is the Time Stop not being exiled. Otherwise I'd be recurring all the time in my spellslinger decks. Approach was wrong but the opponents scooped without reading it themselves.

[@SpliffG707]

Jeremy is gonna try and grow a beard? The whole time I thought I was watching “3 men and a baby” 😂😂😂.

[@kobyhaigerty3157]

alternate win con day would be a fun episode.

[@carsondooley7750]

Did they not realize the color of the deckboxes communicates who built which deck?

[@waldemarbarrientos3887]

Yeiiii!!! Been waiting for this all week, big fan, greetings from Chile!!

[@benr1286]

They know cards in hand, graveyard, and exile. I saw they make a small addendum video to properly conclude game

[@sandmanlives3]

I loved that Startled Awake!

[@williamoldaker5348]

18:16 "start" here for the game. Jheezuz

[@pineapplepizzahotpocket8962]

Since Jeremy's commander was Karona, and he got attacked by his own Karona, technically wouldn't he have commander damage on himself form his own commander. I'm not sure how that works.

[@thegamingelf1807]

I feel your pain Jeremy. Whats No shave November? Cant grow anything anyways

[@DeviltoGeorgia34]

Let's be honest: Rule #1 of the Zombie Apocalypse: Cardio. If anyone is surviving it's Kyle.

[@dylannunnari2087]

Reading the cards explain the cards Aproach the second sun doesnt win the game unless cast from hand

[@theburzon8719]

I demand a special "judge tower" episode for this missplayed approach!

[@ultiplayer1]

@1:11:16 Jon's Sol Ring and Strionic Resonator should be exiled.

[@leonardofornaro733]

Surveil + top-deck value deck! I'm building something similar! So cool

[@NezumiLT]

Can’t wait for the Bearded Jeremy to show up with his Rakdos the Defiler deck and dominate the game.

[@johnandrews141]

Golems heart says anyone casts an artifact, gain one life

[@sheldonrotondo840]

I am not sure if it’s important but shouldn’t the time stop be exiled. In the remainder text it should state that.

[@GSGPINBALL]

Can we rock out to a “Battle of the Bans” episode? Banned commanders & other banned cards, cause heck the rules

[@mikelteson1342]

John should have saved Jeremy on the condition he give him 2nd. This was John would have snagged a cool 5 points! 1 for save and 1 for building the winning deck

[@ADamItalian1173]

How did Jon win off approach? More important is how is this resolved, that doesn't butt hurt more than half the viewers.

[@BloodyScythe666]

not using approach correctly upsets me so much. it pretty much took out two players by not reading the card.

[@daltonwood8881]

I loved the chair deck so much I had Stephen sign my Brago lol

[@jstrobel5857]

love the golem deck! i have one too and its great

[@kylecarlson1159]

I mean karona is kind of a golem since she's and amalgamation of a few people, which is kinda what a golem is, an amalgamation of a certain element!

[@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299]

Turns out Karona is an avatar, I thought they were a god but I was false:P

[@ForeverLaxx]

I don't know why Stephen bothers to look at his neighbor's hand all the time since he doesn't know what the cards do anyway. EDIT: So many misplays in this game. Even more than usual. The one no one else seemed to notice though is Justin declaring that Jon can't kick the Rite of Replication. He can, and probably should have. He's still casting the spell, so he can pay the additional mana to kick it. Sometimes I wish Justin would just keep his mouth shut since he doesn't know the rules half the time and no one at the table is smart enough to question him.

[@aaronorbik2375]

Deck boxes match the playmat of the person, who submitted it.

[@irishrunner27]

at 44 minutes or so John taps yennet to attack. she has vigilance, not that it wound up being terribly relevant but still

[@54m0h7]

Too bad for the Second Sun screw up. I was really rooting for Stephen to pull out the win. At least get to play his Karona. He wasn't doing too bad until Jeremy board wiped, and with a good life total lead he could have pulled it threw.

[@chrisjones1473]

Isn't karona the false god an illusion. I'm curious

[@ultiplayer1]

@45:53 Time stop should be exiled.

[@chromark7552]

I jus like how all the lady are “technically” looking right seeing how the image is like a photo you would have taken, you get the idea, but I guess it’s not important in the end xD

[@JGreen42]

No shout out for the salt deck?

[@RyuPlaneswalker]

*Sees Rite of Replication in Justin's hand* So..he is gonna save that, to kick on a precursor golem right?

[@Apkooi1]

We need a deck called "Dudes looking down"

[@valleU]

Oh no, that Second Sun isn't going away anytime soon, is it?

[@joehemmann1156]

Everyone pointing out Approach, and here I was just going to tell Justin that you can kick cards you cast for free if you can pay the kicker.

[@joehemmann1156]

Best Primordial play I've ever gotten personally was play someone else's Tooth and Nail, kick it, and play my own spell copying effect (can't remember which one). For 9 mana I got my Primordial and searched my deck for 4 more creatures and put them all into play, it was fun times.

[@dotmp3883]

I think you guys should do a game some time where you all play some form of group hug deck

[@dronezrk]

I already spammed your twitters, but I wanted to share it with the Commander VS community since this is my fav show. Running a little commander tourney for my playgroup. Headsup not 4 player. Some fun deck ideas though (and some fairly typical ones)! feel free to use any you like :D plus some of you get specific shout outs in the document ;) docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IBYk2Z3fXB2dZTipLnkFh4pAF_XupgMtU6y3W21BTr0/edit?usp=sharing

[@MWorl91]

Hey guys, I think enough of you have commented about the approach. It’ll be okay, it’s just a game

[@koltonoliver4339]

John chests have to cast approach from hand

[@skootchk1253]

I think we should get a rematch...

[@donteatthis3094]

They are all looking right!

[@porkthepink]

Was it not obvious who had whos deck with the deck boxxes

[@porkthepink]

yeah that was a bogus win. thats not how that works