Commander VS S13E4: Selvala vs Rubinia vs Ravos vs Adeliz [EDH]

[@PsychicSenechal]

At some point, it would be cool to see you do this with a Tarkir theme. Zombie hoard replaced by Dragon Tempest. Each player plays a Khan, thematically from Fate Reforged, and you fight the tempest

[@Valdreag17]

Parker Brown It sounds great, but dragons are so much more powerful than zombies.

[@flonaise]

Maybe start off with the Dragon Whelps and Dragon Eggs and you roll a die at random each turn and either the Whelps evolve or the egg hatches?@@Valdreag17

[@jtizzle450]

it would just be watching the narset player 1v1 the horde...cool

[@PsychicSenechal]

@@jtizzle450 which is why I recommended the Fate Reforged Khans. Shu Yun could work similarly to the Adelize deck we saw in this one. Daghatar could be super friends like with his ability to give counters. Alesha could be a reanimating deck. And Yasova could do her stealing thing. No Tasigur because he betrays the Kahns

[@NewOldEBM]

@@PsychicSenechal I like your idea sorta (obvs needs tweaking) but Daghatar can't be super friends with his ability to give +1/+1 counters.... also quick dumb lore question - if Tasigur betays the khans why does he end up as a necklace?

[@RyuPlaneswalker]

Rule that the Horde should have - The Horde begins with the Monarch..and you can attack the Horde to gain the monarch..but it will always attack the person with the Monarch..

[@Dr0ctober]

I would watch this format as a regular part of every season. dope game you guys.

[@reeceeaster3829]

I wanna see the four of you and Kyle West doing a D&D campaign I feel like that would be very entertaining

[@kobyhaigerty3157]

On a side series or podcast, like a special episode of think twice maybe?...

[@reeceeaster3829]

That could work I just think it would be fun to watch

[@Grimpo96]

“We’re a team, but we’re all each other’s opponents.” Ah, yes, just like my D&D experience

[@charlessloan1963]

Minute 1:55:00 Justin and John do their usual thing, conspire against #teamgreen

[@PrettierNPastel]

If there isn't an ALL DIRECTOR KYLE decks special this season then there is no justice

[@PiroMunkie]

At first I thought you meant Director Kyle playing 4 decks against himself.

[@Lucarioguild7]

TheDerpyderpyderp We’ll see if they filmed an all Director Kyle episode for this season 20 years ago

[@kingfuzzy2]

Thank goodness

[@vader1137]

Remember that scene from The Lion King where Scar (John) let Mufasa (Stephen) die in the stampede (horde).

[@RyuPlaneswalker]

That Betrayal at 1:55:00 BETRAYAL

[@danelawson6589]

I feel that the players that get killed by The Horde should become zombies and start attacking other players. Fair for this game.

[@zachmcmillan4060]

dane lawson That would be awesome,and all of their creatures they control should become zombies too,in addition to their creature types.😂

[@hnjahnjah]

Yeah,i would have loved that...because Stephen's deck was clearly the powerhouse among the 4 so i think he could do quick work of the three cowards who STABBED HIM IN THE BACK.

[@TheKodiac58]

It would have been hilarious if director Kyle hid a Emerkul on the bottom of the deck as a trick! It would have been funny to watch their faces. XD

[@janosoterios]

I just want to point out that thanks to a phone there (from Suarez I asumme) we now know they recorded this either at 7:20 am or 7:20 pm

[@ChrispyChad]

had to be PM. no way do they get up that early to do these

[@erfunk]

They've mentioned staying after work to film these. Definitely appreciate them spending their own time to entertain us!

[@mattnelson516]

Last year was such a trick for Justin Parnell and such a treat for everyone else.

[@OBBOYS]

I absolutely love the horde episodes, they offer an almost story-like experience every time.

[@YaoBao1]

Without having even gotten to the gameplay portion of the video, I LOVE the subtheme you guys decided to add to the Halloween episode this year! Super cool idea! :D

[@Fromaginator]

Shock the bard player encouraging other party members to lute

[@edmannila6552]

It’d be cool to see the horde deck be Esper next year. Include the Innastrad Zombies and the Amonkhet Zombies. Also, since it’s commander, maybe give the horde a commander for each level of the horde (Varina lich Queen, Gissa Ghoul caller, Grimgrin, & Scarab God would all be good options)

[@coltondreckman2041]

Diregraf doesnt get bigger as zombies enter your yard. Nbd great vid guys!

[@kristopherwatts9466]

Rewatching this in 2021.. They SERIOUSLY need to do this again with the Forgotten Realms set!!!!

[@robertromero5930]

But the real question is why would the horde block?

[@thekleptoman]

For those wondering, I think the Spy Papers are for the APOCALYPSE CHIME that Jonathan had in his deck: steal a zombie with his commander, give it every name under the sun and pop the chimes, thus killing the stolen creature. It's super inefficient and super amazing and I really wish he'd done it in the game.

[@agradert]

Jon losing it at "hordeing itself out" was a definite highlight.

[@artemisfowl52]

Super Horde Challenge: Do Dragons instead of zombies.

[@williamkorb8211]

I just love how they do the intro this time! Always making it good! Also on the note of bards... see what I did there... I remember playing a bard in my second dnd session ever and the party always picked on me even after I put in work and made sure we had the buff and distraction we needed, I was more stealth based however and during the final confrontation with the last boss of the campaign as we fought I abandoned my team to go loot the treasure for myself while they all died. They then realized just how much work I put in each combat.

[@YaoBao1]

Rough time for a lesson but clearly an important one nonetheless. In my experience with D&D and bards in the game (small for playing experiences but large for viewing thanks to Critical Role), bards are really crazy characters able to accomplish so much, in combat and out! I have no idea how the class has even got so bad a vibe generally, but I could imagine it being due to the skill level of the player playing the character.

[@ForeverLaxx]

@@YaoBao1 Because Historically, Bards were just worse Rogues as far as party roles were concerned. Poor in combat for a long time, other player classes don't need debuffs from the Bard to do their thing adequately, and generally speaking they don't need the buffs either and the party would be better off with another Fighter. Bards have been slowly moving up, or other classes have been slowly moving down, so that Bards now can at least be respectable. I still make fun of them at every session regardless.

[@YaoBao1]

@@ForeverLaxx I see. My own experience with the class is limited only to 5e, and is only rooted in two instances, 1) the first season of Critical Role that saw one of the players playing one throughout most of the campaign, and 2) the last campaign I myself played in, in which another player played one. My impression from 1) has been that the player managed to utilize the tools provided by the class very well, as well as being incredibly entertaining, but of course, this is also a trend of the class. With regards to 2), my fellow player played the character quite well and often would manage to get a lot of information for our party. While the following might contradict with your own opinions about the class, in combat, he focused a lot on being a magic DPS (or DPR, I guess) character instead of a supporter, a fact which was quite evident to me as I played a sorcerer with quite the limited access to any sort of magic that wasn't destructive in nature. This didn't necessarily present any problems for our group dynamic, but a more significant problem was this player's tendency towards being a solo player: he seemed to feel the game was supposed to be played competitively and thus wanted as much advantage for himself as possible. This meant that he would often sneak off from the party and would almost always use his bardic inspiration for his own good rather than to support his party. Of course, I am not saying this in itself is a wrong way to play the game, but the rest of the party were not happy with many of his antics and would often ask of him to be more of a teamplayer. I guess what I want to point out with this long "rant" is that, at least in my opinion, there is definitely value to having a PC that is more support based rather than combat based. True, killing enemies is eventually the easiest way of dealing with them, but the beauty of DnD in my eyes is that it offers a lot of variety in how one can play it.

[@ForeverLaxx]

@@YaoBao1 That's the problem with Bards in older editions, though. No class needed them around, and having them around just meant you had a worse "skillmonkey" than your Rogue. They're entertaining, sure, but that's about as far as it went. The support abilities they provided did not compensate for their lack of meaningful contribution to a fight otherwise and is why they were usually just better off when replaced with something more combat focused. Let the Paladin, Sorcerer, or Rogue be the team's "face." Even if the Bard is technically better at it, that aspect of the game isn't nearly as meaningful as the combat aspect and 99% of the time your Paladin or Sorc will be more than enough for any social skill checks. Of course, I'm still speaking from earlier editions. If Bards are capable in combat now, then it's evident that WOTC recognized their problems and worked on correcting them. Either that or they just brought everyone else down. I stopped playing DnD when they turned it into a video game with the release of 4th Edition.

[@YaoBao1]

@@ForeverLaxx I see. I have also heard about the class' less-so-than-usefulness in earlier editions, so it's not that I don't believe you, more so I'm surprised about the class' situation in the past, I guess :) Interesting to hear about your insights!

[@M1XYF1T]

This is me from the FUTURE! I hope this theme comes back now that we've have official DnD classes and cards in Mtg.

[@zerogivenx1422]

First time poster.. Love the show you guys are great and as a DnD player the theme is awesome. I will say though I’ve never picked a team before but after this one I’m definitely team Green. What you guys did to him was super sketchy. Steven if your reading this I’m gonna build you a deck for the finale. It will be brutal, it will be heartless, it will be mill! We shall seek vengeance for you and the zombie horde!

[@cinco_de_la_tarde]

This was a cool video but I agree it needs more tweaking. I think adding hidden objectives amongst the players would be nice. Maybe something that puts them at opposing positions to each other so they are really fighting themselves and the horde.

[@mattstone8873]

I love these episodes, but I really miss Stephen milling Justin. #BringBackUlamog

[@danpk1977]

Loved this episode. Really enjoy the variants. Good job with the tweaks from last version.

[@admanios]

You talk about your candy corn and your marshmallow pumpkins, but here in Canada, there's no candy more vile or disappointing than molasses kisses.

[@sarahdale9968]

I wish I could argue. But I really can't

[@BushRat253]

Candy corn is freaking delightful. I thought I knew you Stephen Green...

[@TheFreckledFatGuy]

Game starts at 17:04

[@heinousrat9019]

I wish they added these to the video description

[@Spykersan]

A group of us still play with a version of the horde deck ourselves on occation. Though we made it slightly less scary to allow other people to block for whoever is being attacked. it's been an evolving deck to see what works and what doesn't. but we do have plenty of scary things in there, so there are many times where even that isn't good enough to win.

[@lSirCumference]

Finally, sometimes it feels like more than a week for these I swear.

[@stevoyah]

#what THRILLLERRRRRR THRILLER NIGHT! also all the candies you have discussed are DISGUSTING the pumpkins are okay......but candy corn....NO WAY. #HORDEISFUN

[@171relic]

The horde is sick. Going to make my own now!

[@milesguinprower]

Suarez didn't have Hair-Strung Koto. 0/10 worst bard

[@caseybranan4846]

Loved the episode and the horde, I just hope next time we don't see Constant Mists again, as it can ruin the fun of the special format. I also like the idea of having a player who died join the horde or their permanents join the horde side (besides lands).

[@kevinmartin6001]

I will go on the record as saying I am the one eating all that candy corn. Loved it since I was a kid.

[@christianlong8723]

Great Episode! Y’all did Steven dirty though

[@francescogulisano2917]

I have been waiting so long for the horde to be back

[@Rediblackdragon]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why didn't Justin put his Viridian Longbow onto the Orochi Scout? He'd be able to at least lock down the horde for a little while.

[@frostownik]

Orochi triggers on combat damage

[@Zentenski]

Still something weird going on with Jon's mic. Sounds like he sits alone in a small echo-y room. Great episode, though!

[@notellingyoumyname5970]

Two ideas in case any ones interested . : an unglued / unhinged commander match and an absolute random match where they look up all the possible legendaries use a random number generator to pick the commander then off those colors random number generator for every spell in deck they choose lands.

[@SirNarax]

Chroma key technology was a very new technology in 1998. It was first used in 1898 that is a mere 100 years ago. Wait...

[@EggFuhrer]

i'm so mad wtf i just wanted to watch Stephen do the cool thing. jerks ): #TeamGreen

[@joe45634]

wow massive disrespect to bard. One of the better classes in 3.5 and 5e. Reasonable in combat, and absurd in social encounters/skillchecks.

[@stevoyah]

not everyone can be a one man band and buff your party and kill them skillchecks. ALSO wheres the tank is party?

[@quincybriley4113]

Bards are garbage in 3.0/3.5/pathfinder. They are pretty decent in 5.0

[@RyuPlaneswalker]

I have a Paladin/Bard Hybrid who just Crossed into Epic levels in 4E, Skald Dailies are a thing man, Skald Dailies are a thing. Their level 1 Daily is "Every enemy in the Skald's Aura grants combat advantage." The epic level ones are kind of absurd depending on the amount of enemies you got going in the fight, it makes enemies in the Skald's aura get a 10 untyped ongoing damage whenever they get hit by an ally's attack. Our mage fireballed and hit 6 things, just 60 damage no effort.

[@Lucarioguild7]

Jesse Shipman Pretty sure the absurd charisma is why everyone hates/loves them, those crazy horny pansexual musicians

[@sarahdale9968]

I have always considered the Bard in 3.5 as a Tier 3 class by itself. Not great but not stupid bad either (though I have seen a build that went easily into tier 1). However, 5th edition's Bard is tier 1 by itself(yes, 5th edition bards are that good)

[@steveherman8868]

Do reverse hoard next season. You guys play as demons, orcs, and zombies against a the forces of elf and man.

[@mattstone8873]

4 Way Stax?

[@Brownieman32]

Has there ever been an update to the Horde deck, haven't been able to find any 😅 was just thinking about this idea and am really itching to try it out 😂

[@chrisregtien7486]

Is there a decklist available for the horde deck that has been used during this episode?

[@PiroMunkie]

Spy Kit is a card I definitely didn't know ever existed.... and is definitely the kind of card I like to try and build around. I've been thinking about a Legendary-matters sort of deck, and that + Eye of Singularity on any indestructible creature seems like a scummy enough move.

[@lepinz1223]

Does anyone has an idea where I can find the rules of the horde ? I would like to try it with some friends ! Great idea and video thanks guys !

[@cooool74]

Jon lied to Stephen about protecting him. That’s some bs

[@kobyhaigerty3157]

That's why he had the spy kit. Sneaky Sneaky #TeamSuarez

[@laffywaffy1989]

Thats Jon for u don't give to shits only out to help himself and not together as a team. Remember Jon will deceive anyone and promise things but throw it away moment it give himself a better position over someone else

[@anthonygilmore5424]

Thought this was a good way to do the horde deck. Also wonder if throwing an angel or two in the horde deck to help would be good. Maybe even an Angel of Glory's Rise.

[@markharland2459]

Jon really did not use Rubinia to her full potential with Seedborn Muse in play. Whenever he untapped Rubinia on the horde's turn, the zombie that it got back each time should have had summoning sickness. Also, the turn Song of Freyalise gave all of his creatures trample, he should have stolen Diregraf Colossus to deal 95 trample damage.

[@florgness]

This is a really cool concept

[@franciscop631]

can you guys modify the horde decktech so it shows each deck base on the horde level?

[@Brickheadunofficial]

I’ll eat the candy corn for you guys

[@Zee_II]

Can I lend a hand, brother?

[@robinhail3292]

Since Timestamp Guy isn't here yet, 17:04

[@Mr.Titanic]

Yes, unpartnered commanders! I love Ravos alone too. I play a lone Thrasios deck too.

[@TheAldjiunar]

I liked that format, trying to fight the horde. I'm going to see if my friends want to play something like that.

[@mooseplays2979]

Is there a place we can see the decklist for the horde?

[@ParadiseExile]

Hey Commander VS fan, can I get a bit of a hand? I am wondering which episode has the sitcom style opening in it. I freaking love that thing so much but just can't remember which ep it was in. Help is appreciated, thank you.

[@SCGCommander]

(Director Kyle) I believe this is what you're looking for: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rpTZZnWQhrh5eNE

[@Rdiaz1234]

Think you guys can write up a list of rules for this CMDRVS format? I love this and I wanna try it with my friends

[@cooperzilkenat3220]

Actually was snacking on a big bag of candy corn when I watched this... (On November 4)

[@shayneweyker]

My bet for the Spy Kit combo card was Declaration In Stone or Echoing Truth. With a longshot for Mask of Memory to fetch out some really game tilting creature.

[@Rebumai]

I would like to see them do a planechase episode

[@lanceedmondson6002]

Is there going to be a deck list put up sometime?? Jw

[@6LordMortus9]

That forest in Justin's (?) hand on turn 2 was beautiful!! What set is it from?

[@martintaylor570]

THE HORRRRRDE!!!! So excited!

[@haraldhimmelmo1766]

BEST GAME CONCEPT EVER!!!

[@CalderaWolf]

Currently on the binge, but it doesn’t make much sense that after Steven died the horde went again, by that logic the horde was going in between each play mat, rather than between each turn, like Steven said, he didn’t get a turn so it should’ve been Jon, horde, Jeremy, horde, although the turn the horde took amounted to about nothing in the grand scheme of things

[@maezura]

Jeremy probably could've killed the horde deck by itself by casting Suture Priest. If each creature enters makes it mill one, and it was casting ~5 cards a turn.

[@laffywaffy1989]

I agree could have bit it's Jeremy he don't do that kind of thing out for himself only seem like he don't believe in helping out for cause look at last video where he just let Justin get destroyed and when Justin and Jon said Jeremy could have attack into Justin creatures and help him build up craters power and his bs excuse was o I'm sorry I wasn't thinking I think he was and didn't care

[@MestHoop]

Oh yea! #TeamParnell Let's see if they work together this time or throw someone under the bus and promptly get overrun.

[@MestHoop]

Something tells me that Stephen would have lashed out on his turn if he got to untap there.

[@airkami]

I don't think so. He was in the lead. He'd keep the lead if he killed the horde.

[@MestHoop]

@@airkami Yea, but he admitted to being able to epic experiment twice for quite some mana. His team would have been huge, so if his commander was big enough, maybe send it Parnell's way (like he promised at the start). He would have had enough damage for the horde itself easily.

[@Memphii]

I love jeremy's shirt. Soooo much

[@jakewilliams9508]

Any chance I could get a deck list for that horde deck?

[@Rediblackdragon]

Even looking at the deck, I couldn't find a use for Spy Kit and it's actually bothering me.

[@Xopher1222]

"Peeps the worst candy ever created" Have you guys never had black licorice? It's sadness incarnate

[@airkami]

I really loved the Horde. I would love to see it again. How about some blue/white zombie themed cards in there too? How about all zombie tokens have haste? I'm just commenting before I watch to say your Thumbnail did not stick out very much in my subscriptions. Just though you might like to know. Bards are EXTREMELY useful in D&D. But they are the butt of many jokes. This episode is extremely enjoyable and feels completely different from any other episodes. It's probably because it was filmed so long ago. I am disappointed in the end game plays considering how different all the rest of the game was the entire time, but I get it. Also, is Justin DQ'd or penalized for breaking the Deck building rules? lol

[@jeffreybender4416]

I really liked the horde this time it was a pretty entertaining episode

[@alansayers]

Thank you to the Commander VS Team for creating such great entertaining content about MTG, especially about Commander, my favorite format. I took a second to quickly compile a basic rules guide for playing the Zombie Horde. Please add to this as you see fit as I'm not an expert in writing rules and might have made some errors. You never know, we might even see WOTC create an "Archenemy Liliana's Horde" one day. Oh the dream! Enjoy! The Zombie Horde Rules 1. Basic Commander rules apply. 2. Your life totals are 40. 3. The Zombie Horde does not have life points, instead it has a 228-card library that needs to be milled to win. 4. The Zombie Horde has infinite black mana. (Basic Swamps) 5. The Zombie Horde Deck consists of 228 Zombie or Zombie related cards, Planeswalkers and black disruptive hand and board state spells. 6. The Zombie Horde Deck has 3 levels of power or strength of spells. 7. Each level consists of cards of a certain power or board threat. 8. Levels are reached by milling the Zombie Horde. 9. On level one, the Zombie horde draws a card, level two he draws 2 cards and level three he draws 3 cards. 10. A player deals damage to the Zombie horde in the form of milling its library instead of losing life points as in normal commander. 11. Whenever a spell or ability causes the Zombie Horde to gain life, instead of gaining the life, place the top card from the Zombie Horde’s graveyard back on top of its library face down. 12. You beat the Zombie Horde only if the Zombie Horde’s Library is empty and can’t draw cards. 13. Each Zombie or creature in play under the Zombie Horde’s control can block an attacking creature if able but cannot double block one attacking creature. 14. At combat during each of the Zombie Horde’s turns, a random player is chosen and is attacked by each able attacking zombie controlled by the Zombie Horde. 15. Other Player may cast spells or activate abilities to prevent damage to a player being attacked by the Zombie Horde but my not assist in blocking with their own creatures. 16. Attacks, Spells and abilities that targets a player are determined by a random method of your own choosing for example a roll of the dice, the highest roll becomes the target player. 17. The Zombie Horde Planeswalkers may only activate their first and last abilities as in normal commander. None of the other abilities are allowed. 18. The Zombie Horde Planeswalkers may only activate their first ability once during a full turn rotation of all the players. 19. The Zombie Horde Planeswalkers may only play its last or “ultimate” ability if the loyalty count was reached as in normal commander rules. 20. Play starts with each player taking 4 setup turns as normal Commander would be played. 21. The player with the highest Roll goes first. 22. From turn one, the Zombie Horde will only participate if an ability or spell played by a player triggers an “each player” trigger or a “universal effect” for example “each player draws a card” or “each player reveals the top card of their library”. 23. After turn 4 the Zombie Horde then draws a card and plays a card. 24. The player next in turn takes their turn after which the Zombie Horde will play again. 25. The Zombie Horde will take a turn after each player from then on. 26. The Zombie Horde can play any number of cards depending on how many it has in its hand during each of its turns. 27. The Zombie Horde does not have a main phase following its attack phase. 28. All spells enter the battlefield at the same time. 29. Creature enter the battlefield with summoning sickness unless it has haste as in normal commander rules. 30. Upkeep triggers do apply. 31. Activated abilities of spells in play under the Zombie Horde’s control can’t be activated. 32. Spells with Flashback controlled The Zombie Horde triggers directly after the first trigger and is then exiled. 33. Whenever the Zombie Horde plays a spell that causes it to return a creature from its graveyard to play or to hand, it chooses the first Zombie creature from the top of its graveyard.

[@zachmayer2288]

I want to run a dnd campaign where you go up against different horde decks for the type of enemy and different sizes decks for the toughness

[@RoxyGotMoxy.]

Tell you what, I've seen a couple of your horde games now and, as bad as the zombie horde is, trust me from experience - you DO NOT MESS WITH AN ELDRAZI HORDE DECK. The version we played was iirc a 200ish card deck, about 70% of the deck was the 1/1 scions, the rest were bigger eldrazi, Eldrazi Conscription, Eldrazi monuments, All Is Dust and all 6 (both iterations of each) Eldrazi titans, plus a few "this doesn't f*ck you" 'breather' cards. You could attack the eldrazi horde and damage dealt milled it instead. On each of its turns it played scions until it hit a non-scion spell then played that, and it attacked whoever had the most CMC in play as the biggest source of stuff to process. The brutal thing was it exiled what it killed, and for each eldrazi that hit you you exiled the top of your library. Sure there was no Endless Ranks of the Dead, but when you win by milling it out, and that means exiling the titans or having them in play and milling it (even scarier) its.. yeah.. its a challenge, even with strong decks.

[@thea2rael]

#bell - thank you very much. was a lot of fun

[@jessmagana]

Is it me or does John's mic sound weird? Heard it first when director Kyle played for him.

[@Marionettetc]

First! Really cool rpg and horde mechanics in this episode, I'm impressed how you guys improved the concept of the enemy deck with boons and such

[@Gcsmith12]

Please tell me the spykit was for something like Detention Sphere?

[@gregrocks1223]

I think that if someone dies that person should join the horde except all their creatures are zombies in addition to their other types.

[@poipoi9816]

Oh god, which episode was last year's halloween? That sounds amazing

[@moehsenpai8855]

Okay but now I want to watch you guys play Planeswalkers in D&D

[@decout]

Is the zombie deck all shuffled together and divided or is there a list of what is in each part?

[@toysoldierfrost]

Anyone know what kind of mic's they're using?

[@Diamondblade67]

Hope green has a spellbook being wizards require spellbooks to cast spells

[@becklarson8767]

happy Halloween everyone!

[@ImTroyFromCanada]

What's the card Jon holds up at the very end of the episode?

[@hamishian0]

Cold Jon, brilliant but cold.

[@ryanmeyer872]

forget commander, sign me up for candy review podcast

[@WeatheRay]

What was the purpose of the Spy Kit?

[@Bifroront]

Next year die each of the tips with a different color. IT will be able to be picked up with the overhead cam.