Starfield DLSS 3 Frame-Gen: Is DRM On Mods A Step Too Far?

[@ZinhoMegaman]

LukeFZ made his own DLSS 3 mod and it's free on Nexus Mods. I'm using his DLSS 2 because its by far the best I tested, no problems and the performance is better than FSR 2. Other DLSS 2 mods gave me real bad performance or crash the game on launch.

[@Gabrilos505]

Getting donations for mods makes sense, charging for mods is pretty weird.

[@bearwynn]

and is also a violation of most EULA

[@Gabrilos505]

@@bearwynn True

[@steel5897]

He's in his right to charge for his mod, but the fact that it was done for free and arguably better by someone else in a few days speaks volumes on the value of what he's selling. This is not something that should even be modded in the first place, DLSS should be a part of every single release of any game that's even remotely demanding on the hardware, publishers should stay away from exclusive agreements that hurt the consumer.

[@bearwynn]

I mean, he's not got any right to charge for a mod if the EULA forbids it. remember the pointcrow thing?

[@leanlifter1]

Fakeframes are for low powered mobile devices like Steam deck because it can't run much better than a lowly 30 to 40fps 720p med/low settings. A full fat gaming PC can run native quality unlike a low powered mobile hardware device which needs all the help it can get to even touch 60fps.

[@SolarMechanic]

From a legal perspective it's not Microsoft or Zenimax he would need to worry about but Nvidia. If his mod includes the DLSS software, and he is distributing that without a licence, they could come after him. I know we effectively think of that code as free, but free and public aren't the same. Just because something is given to you for free, doesn't mean you have the legal right to modify/copy and redistribute it, and that would be the code in question here.

[@The_Man_In_Red]

This 100%

[@b4ttlemast0r]

is he actually redistributing the dlss dlls themselves? cuz he could just say you have to download them yourself right

[@RQUKOfficial]

Fully on board with modders being rewarded for their work. It's almost required with most PC games these days. DRM'ing it though isn't the way to do it. PureDark has over 11,000 Patreon members with a minimum payment of £4.50 a month. Even after Patreon's cut, that's a lot of money! Adding the extra layer of DRM just feels a little greedy in my opinion.

[@leanlifter1]

Steams DRM is great.

[@TheUruse]

Why seems like everyone talking about this ended up talking about paid mod? The issue is the DRM, paid mod have been their own thing for years now. Even SpecialK is also a player making their mod with DRM.

[@alumlovescake]

He is making at least 50K and is probably making around 70K a month THAT IS 28X the normal person if not more

[@Spr1ggan87]

And? Fashion Corp Execs are making more through child labour but i bet you're still buying designer brands.

[@alumlovescake]

@@Spr1ggan87 I don't buy "designer" brands, sadly we live in a world where that happens but I can't just not wear clothes can I? Every clothing company does that and many others

[@BPMa14n]

Insert crying hipster meme

[@Mark-mu4pj]

Someone will make the same mod and charge nothing for it.

[@flynnnrg]

Jotego's Mister and Analogue Pocket cores become freely available to everyone once they're stable. Being a patreon supporter grants you early access to betas. If this modder followed the same model the reaction from the community would have been different.

[@geoffreybassett6741]

Putting mods behind a paywall will bring companies down hard on the modders who are using their game to make a profit. Not a good idea in the long run.

[@b4ttlemast0r]

I do think it's fine to be compensated for mods and fangames and the like, after all, you put a lot of work into that just like the original game developers. Only if you include copyrighted content then of course the copyright holders would have to be fine with that for it to be legally sound. In this case though, the mod of course didn't really add original stuff, and there are other mods that do the same thing for free. If a product is overpriced but others can just make the same for cheaper or free, it doesn't make the costly one problematic, just makes it a bad deal, so just use the other one's if you don't want to pay. That's how economy works: you can offer a product at a price you chose, and if people decide to buy it, you make money, and they can also decide not to buy it.

[@alumlovescake]

Don't mod if your gonna be shady

[@Spr1ggan87]

"Shady" He in his discord all the time talking to those of us using the mod and making different versions to address issues people are getting, his version is also better than the free version by Luke. The guy deservers to be compensated for doing the devs job for them.

[@alumlovescake]

@@Spr1ggan87 No single human on this planet deserves 840000 a year he didn't make the game or the technology

[@Spr1ggan87]

@@alumlovescakeUnlike the devs he's the one making sure the feature for the most popular GPU brand is available and works. If you want to start stomping your feet and screeching then go and do it in front of Bethesda and AMD.

[@MarquisDeSang]

I want a Hentai mod

[@yewtewbstew547]

@@MarquisDeSang I would wager there are already about a hundred of those on nexusmods lol.

[@DragoniteSpam]

I'm neutral on paid mods as a whole, I don't see myself paying for a game mod myself but a system like whatever was going on with Creation Club doesn't really offend me. But a mod author trying to adding their _own_ DRM doesn't sit well with me at all.

[@MMaRsu]

Its mostly the modding community upset with this themselves. And I fully agree. I will happily chip in if you have a Patreon, but I'm not downloading shit with DRM on it. Glad the DRM was cracked instantly too.

[@leanlifter1]

DRM is not the issue shit poor DRM is the issue. Steam has great DRM and a great store which cannot be said of the many wannabes that just will never get it right.

[@scottj10]

Patreon is fine, the DRM is definitely a touch too far I would say. I do use this mod however, so take that as you will. lol

[@Kiyuja]

the reason why paywalling mods is very bad boils down to two things. First off you are literally generating revenue by relying on someone elses property which can and will be deemed illegal. Second, it basically opens Pandora's Box, the whole idea behind mods is to show a sense of community and appreciation for the source. If it becomes a normal thing to demand compensation for modding work it'll hurt the communities and stunt growth that otherwise would be there. Is getting donations for your work bad, no. Is paywalling it bad, yes.

[@b4ttlemast0r]

With that line of arguing you could say that all games and all software should be free and noone deserves to charge money. Mod developers are developers just like the "real" game devs, we shouldn't just expect everyone to work for free. The only legal problem is if they include copyrighted material and the copyright owner is not fine with that. Just requiring people to own the game and not actually redistributing the game's intellectual property is not problematic. In fact, this only promotes the game because people have to buy it to use your mod. Also, almost all game developers rely on code made by other people, such as game engines, it doesn't invalidate their own work.

[@Kiyuja]

@@b4ttlemast0r first off no, legally speaking you are relying on another right holder which without license is illegal, you cant distribute modifications without consent. Usually devs dont have much of an issue with it but examples like Take Two show you that they ARE within their right to say no. Secondly many studios develope their own technology and while some of that system might be influenced by a piece of code on the internet its still their own property, just like you can play a piece of music on your instrument without needing to pay Ed Sheeran. Thirdly most mods were developed in someone's free time as a project of passion, this is what mods should be, like I said, you are opening Pandoras Box with this. Remember how reaction videos on KZbin got strikes from people not being happy with critizism? Its the exact same situation. Moders COULD charge but it will hurt the community in the long run. Finally, and I know many people on the internet claim this without ever written a line of code, but I actually am a software developer and trust me when I say you DO NOT want this to become a theme in the future (especially with a mod like this). No offense to you but your view is very short sighted...its not about not financially appreciating someone elses work or getting mad at someone earning a buck or two, its about the potential negative effect in the long run and like I said, I'm not against donations...chances are that you personally most likely enjoyed games with mods that were for free in the past

[@gaetanoisgro6710]

I'm a long time modder, I made mods for lots of games, still making sometimes. No, mods should be always free, it's not correct to make money on someone else work. I would gladly accept money from someone who wants a specific mod, like a commission, for the time and effort I have to put into it but the mod itself should be always free and people who lock their mods behind a paywall aren't modders, they are a disgrace, people who think about making money without respect for others. Yes PureDark, you're a good programmer but don't call yourself a modder.

[@deathtrooper2048]

At that point you might as well just become an official programmer for Bethesda if you want money.

[@leanlifter1]

So if a mechanic changes oil on a ford product they should not be paid rather you are saying all the money should go back to ford ? If one puts in tangible work they otta be compensated in some way/s.

[@puregarbage2329]

He did make it. Someone else would definitely steal it and take some of the credit. Whether or not that’s worth putting DRM on a Niche 40 series mod is his call I guess.

[@Hpalhazred]

The guy is neither the creator of Starfield or DLSS, he should be sued for making people pay for this.

[@AngladaFrankFrankyvape]

The beauty of modding is it is made by the community for the community. I already think DRM is crap in full flerdged games, it does not belong in mods.

[@balaam_7087]

I think the better question is, If your game needs mods to be considered ‘good’ or ‘fun’, was it well made in the first place?

[@spht9ng]

Starfield is good and fun to me it just doesn't perform well.

[@mikeuk666]

80hrs in and really enjoying the game....

[@Wobbothe3rd]

Its illegal, you can't charge money for a derivative work without permission from the copyright holder. People got in big trouble making compilation CDs for old games like Doom and Command and Conquer in the 90s, and those had no DRM at all. I personally know someone who had to give hundreds of thousands of dollars back to EA... I think its different for more general mods like Special K or Pascal Glitcher's lighting mods because those aren't directly derivative of any particular copyrighted work.

[@samuelkdu]

your forgetting bethesda created the paid mods scene

[@samclough5686]

@@samuelkdu bethesda are the ip holder, though

[@yewtewbstew547]

@@samclough5686 Presumably Bethesda were taking a % too, when paid mods on steam was briefly a thing? They obviously do with the "Creation Club", which is essentially just a curated paid mods shop by another name. They earn nothing from this.

[@SerBallister]

How does a mod qualify as a derivative work? It's not copying any of Bethesda's assets or code. DLSS is a free API, like DirectX/etc. I didn't read the EULA fine print though so my assumption may be wrong.

[@keflas3842]

Don’t worry lets piss the people off forcing publishers to put dlss support in officially he only has to worry about nvidia just like every other dlss modder

[@ragingmonk6080]

Mod makers need to get a real job. We have always published our mods for free. Now people want to make dollar off of breathing.

[@lcg-channel]

And if one of your mods was a set of missions that took 10 hours+ to play, that took thousands of hours to develop with 100% original assets, that's charging for breathing, is it? Some mods are done to a professional standard that some have the choice to pay for (nobody forcing it), other mods are just trinkets. Like the old saying "a fair day's pay for a fair day's work".

[@ragingmonk6080]

@@lcg-channel I have donated to mod makers. Charging is different than placing a donate tab on the mod.

[@priyanshusharma1812]

It already got cracked so frick the modder who implemented DRM

[@dragongrandmaster]

arent paid mods not mini dlcs

[@Timmy51m]

Classic example of someone trying to protect their bottom line via a method they shouldn't be.

[@crestofhonor2349]

I am fine with people earning money off mods, however all mods should be free and never locked behind a payall. Setup a patreon is you want and people will gladly support your mods, just don't put them behind paywalls. DRM is a step even further that should not be there in the first place

[@moomeuh1342]

Mods must be free, you want to moneytize a mod? Do your own game.

[@lcg-channel]

So a team of developers that spends hundreds and hundreds of hours developing a mod, e.g. whole new set of missions with 100% original assets, can't ever make a penny back for their hundreds of hours of work? Only Bethesda can profit by the existence of free expansive mods that make their game more attractive to buy? A game with mod support becomes a platform to publish on. Bethesda are happy to publish mods with original assets that don't break their lore that are up to their standards on their creation club and take a cut - everyone wins. You are not automatically entitled to the sweat and toil of skilled developers for free - who spends hours learning the creation kit, its intricacies, how to get assets from Blender, Substance, etc., into Creation Kit. DRM I don't agree with, but everyone is entitled to profit from their time.

[@moomeuh1342]

@@lcg-channelImagine if Counter Strike was behind a paywall, would you think it became so successful as a game? Really man, if you have a team and want to spend hundreds and hundreds hours of dev and get any retribution, just do your own game on UE5.

[@sololoquy3783]

It violates the spirit of modding. The idea is or was, modders were given freedom to tamper with the game, and in return they also give for free to the community. This is not healthy, and can allow for bad ramifications down the road. The crack that allows the stink to seep in.

[@lcg-channel]

Not all mods are created equal. There are some types of mod that should never be paid, but there are some mods that are more like expansion packs or DLC where thousands of hours are put into them with original assets. In that case, it is fair to be compensated either through donations or via official marketplace.

[@michaelmonstar4276]

I just spent 300 Euros on this game: Guess whether or not I'm going to spend any more on it... - Even if I paid the base price for it, just NO WAY. - I'm paying BETHESDA for the game, not some dude in his basement. - And by the way, I'm fine with donations and such for mods, but this guy is just taking advantage of the massive title and the great demand for DLSS, then trying to lock it down as well. - I'm very pleased about the backlash and that it got cracked right away. On top of that, Bethesda has already announced DLSS is coming after all. - I'm not even someone who can use it, but it's the principle. - I'm just waiting for FSR 3, which is especially something that should've been there from launch, considering the AMD-sponsorship indeed. What a missed opportunity. And again, I'm paying the official creators of the game for its content and features, which should just be a complete package anyway. I don't even agree with the whole "just mod it" mentality either.

[@a36538]

If it makes you feel better, I donated $100 USD to his Patreon to spite people like you

[@nintendo1889x]

@@a36538 DRM dickrider much?

[@Poet_from_ice]

It's ok to demand money IF you would release mod for FREE after some time

[@Poet_from_ice]

I don't know what PD was thinking with DRM, of course, his mod would have been hacked. If he distributed the it for free, he would have been supported and loved by a large number of people, but he chose more money

[@PITERPENN]

@@Poet_from_ice everyone wants to eat.

[@ItsCith]

You guys have no idea how common paid mods is. Even paid ReShade presets made out of just a couple of shaders is popular. Most users find it daunting to create their own presets so they rather spend 10 bucks for convenience. Moreover, as paid mods are more popular now, mod piracy is also a thing and that's why mod DRM is getting more and more talked about. Modding used to be based on creativity. Now it's just like any business.

[@puregarbage2329]

We don’t pay for mods.

[@ItsCith]

@@puregarbage2329 YOU don't pay for mods perhaps, but others do.

[@puregarbage2329]

@@ItsCith we as majority, do not. It’s redundant.

[@ItsCith]

@@puregarbage2329 Mods are becoming mainstream and with it people do buy it. And no, the majority still don't pay. But it's becoming more and more common.

[@dominicdococo4574]

​@@ItsCith and those people are fools who actively make the modding community worse.

[@batou1468]

i'm not a fan of paying for mods for a game, but technically i don't see a problem if someone wants to charge for the work they put in. people can vote with their wallet. how is it different from say making a paid app for windows like those start menu replacers? it's a 3rd party paid app that enhances the core of another application(os). i personally won't be getting this mod. not that i could run it since i am on an overpriced 3090. on another note, i don't understand the outrage towards bethesada over lack of dlss. everyone should be outraged at nvidia for keeping everything closed source like dlss, though they are completely within their rights to do that. nvidia and amd have been doing exclusive tech partnering deals since the dawn of time.

[@iamdmc]

The guy did something that a lot of people want and no one else is doing Of course he should make money off it

[@qwijbo]

A lot of people don't want it because they consider it bad form and unethical, which is why it hasn't been done. More importantly, it isn't about him making money off of it, a lot of modders take donations and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who is upset with that, what upset people is the fact that this guy put DRM in his mod to force people to pay for it, so beyond it being unethical it is potentially plain illegal.

[@iamdmc]

@@qwijbo his code his ip. Anyone who'd take him to court would have a hard time convincing a judge to the contrary. As for "donations welcome" - such a thing would probably limit his icome by 95%. I don't blame him for charging and trying to protect his work

[@qwijbo]

@@iamdmc but it's not his code. It's literally Nvidia's code and it wouldn't take much convincing at all to prove it.

[@geoffreybassett6741]

@@iamdmc He took something Nvidia released for free, packaged it into the game and added DRM into it and sold it. If NVIDIA cared enough to sue him it would immediatly be a loss for him.

[@Diegopie115]

I have to pay someone for their time and effort? WHAAAA 😭😭

[@mariobnc1995]

Yes pure Dark Mod is the best dlss integration. I play rdr2 With frame Generator Mod on my 40/90 and the game's run at 4K 144 Hz with ultra settings Wind only 275 W

[@MMaRsu]

Great let some other modder do it for free fuck DRM and F PureDark

[@Spr1ggan87]

@@MMaRsu And you get a worse version, Lukes free version for Starfield has terrible aliasing. You only have to pay £4.50 to get PureDarks version lmfao, even someone on wellfare can afford that.

[@JazerMedia]

I'm sorry, but everyone's brains are leaking out of their heads if they think they're entitled to free mods because it's "based on someone else's work." If a bookstore doesn't include a bookmark or nightlight along with the book they sold to you, nobody else is obligated to offer something that would enhance the experience of reading that book for free. There's nothing wrong with this mod author wanting to be compensated for the time they put into making this possible. If their work isn't worth what they're asking, then someone else should come along and do it independently for free. However, as it looks right now, that isn't happening because it's rare for someone to possess the talent to do what they did, and that talent deserves compensation if they want it.

[@arglebargle5531]

A light obviously isn't a derivative work. Terrible comparison.

[@Piscosour95]

Wanting some form of compensation for your work is fine, forcing everyone to give you money in order to use your mod is scummy. Mods are usually free because they're not "official" work, but rather fan projects. They're usually made by fans out of pure passion rather than by hired, experienced developers who get paid by the company behind the game. Get the difference? Also, with Bethesda adding DLSS in a future patch, this mod and having to pay for it has completely lost its meaning. And guess what? Bethesda aren't going to charge you money to install that DLSS patch.

[@ni55an86]

They're just taking lessons from the industry. Once the devs stop maybe he'll stop. Kind of a weird double standard happening with this one.

[@harrasika]

How? People hate DRM in games and DRM in mods. How is this a double standard?

[@a36538]

Came here to witness all the entitled gamers cry about paid mods 😂 Just don’t buy it smh

[@MichaelM28]

Spider-Man 2 > midfield

[@mikeuk666]

80hrs in and really enjoying the game.... want more salt on that copium kid? 😂

[@MichaelM28]

Terrible Game

[@mikeuk666]

Copium from a known troll & lots of us enjoying the game 😂

[@MichaelM28]

@@mikeuk666 Xbots pretending to enjoy the game 😂

[@noncompulsoryl]

​​@MichaelM28 There's the PC too...I'm honestly having a blast with it. But then there's mods there to add to the experience. Edit: Oh, never mind...just realised you're on some kind of no-life mission here.

[@mikeuk666]

​@@MichaelM2880hrs in and really enjoying the game.... want more salt on that copium kid? 😂