Stas Olenchenko - Analysing Propagandists that Normalise, Whitewash and Weaponize Russian Narratives

Disinformation continues to be a threat to Ukrainian sovereignty and is also targeted at Western democracies and allies of Ukraine. Around the world aggressive information warfare threatens information security and social stability, especially in states which Russia seeks to destabilise or coerce into supporting it. As we saw in the 2016 US elections, it can potentially threaten results of voting, place undue influence on voters’ decisions and undermine democratic processes. This is more important than ever, with a slew of elections in 2024 and the advent of exponential AI created fakes.
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Stas Olenchenko is a content strategist and writer focused on Ukraine, media and tech. He is the writer behind “The Words War” newsletter, which focuses on undoing myths about Ukraine.
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[@piseag458]

Russia is bad,invincible and we stand no chance 😊 heard that more times than i care to remember ..that and Ukraine aid is not helping Ukraine 🙄 ..also the nihilism,nothing we do in the west is any good, very good interview and guest and very important subject for people to wise up to the pernicious all pervasive Russian lies trying to undermine our democratic countries, thanks SC.

[@SiliconCurtain]

👍👍👍 I’m so glad this discussion resonated with you.

[@piseag458]

@@SiliconCurtain very much so,great to hear such knowledgeable speakers,especially in these precarious times .

[@markusleboschka6878]

@@piseag458 It's the same fairytale like in the movies, where the villain acts exactly like that, making it seem that resistance is futile and pointless. And gets taken out in the end.

[@piseag458]

@@markusleboschka6878 yep.. just so,its a myth to demotivate resistance.

[@alanchristensen5735]

Russian propaganda has been very effective in the United States. I myself have been fooled by it. I'm not sure what my government has been doing to prevent it. Knowing that is half the battle. Realizing that it's occurring and spotting it is a big help.

[@ScarletEdge]

I was lucky enough to escape the right-wing pipeline when I finally had an epiphany to start fact-checking what they say. It came to me because the "reality" they tried to sell did not match the reality I had seen and I began to deliberately look for debunking videos, once I confirmed that debunking videos are right I realized how weak their arguments are. They spin fantasies to people with reinforcement of some degenerate conspiracy that covers the lie, or at least makes people distrustful of everything. Fortunately, once the spell is broken it's impossible to get back to this. So every person that they lose is permanent.

[@PeterBakker]

I am also fooled by some of the narratives about the Minsk agreement, the Banderas etc. Nevertheless our own government is using various techniques to bias , create social complacent, so logical conclusions. I guess we need to be more credible at every institution.

[@thinker646]

As for me, this talk has me now thinking backwards and re evacuating some less recent social shifts and wondering how much of the current information aggression occurs, propagandists having seen success in past efforts. Thinking up to many years prior to covid- not just recently.

[@bigolboomerbelly4348]

Thanks for being open minded.

[@georgine321]

What do you expect any government to do about anyone’s propaganda, revisionist history, or outright lies? The last few years ago Covid was another major topic of conversation and while it is less now the percentage of bad info is as bad as it ever was. But it’s “free speech”. Russia/Putin lies about everything. Breaks every treaty, accord or agreement they ever joined in. Wagner’s Internet Research Agency (such a catchy name) is alive and well and not the only tool farm I am sure. International law, norms, and behaviours are simply to be ignored by the ruscists. All we can do is be aware, call it out when we see it, and help others to understand it until some other crisis takes the spotlight from Putin and his “legacy” building. The Govs can’t stop it as they do it too if to a lesser degree and always have (maybe not monetized or weaponized to the same degree).

[@gerryhouska2859]

Of course this war could've been averted, if only ruSSia was given 100,000,000 toilet bowls, it wouldn't've been forced to seek them in Ukraine.

[@LisaNH934]

🇺🇲 🇺🇦 I am thankful I can recognize ruzzian propaganda pretty quickly these days. Takes a bit of practice, but it gets easier and quicker!!! 😊 Thank you again Jonathan.

[@PlanetFrosty]

Many can, I wish Johnathan could recognize the leftist propaganda embracing destructive ideology for decades embodied in progressives in the US and Democratic Socialists who have dominated Biden and DNC with approximately 60-70 Democrat members of Congress. This is the other side of Moscow Marjorie useful idiot which is getting no real attention except noticing the calling to stop hiring refineries in Russia by Biden Administration. This is the Democratic Socialist Progressive speak that slow walks weapons to Ukraine.

[@johncromwell2529]

Great work Jonathon Celebrate 🙏🇺🇦🇺🇸👏👍

[@GloryToUkrainianPeople]

Thank you both very much for voiding Ukrainian voices! Speaking for those who cannot speak for themselves!

[@DarkestAlice]

Thank you, Jonathan, for your conversation with Stas Olenchenko, very interesting and important, especially in this election year. I really hope people around the world will vote representatives into office, who want to cooperate and support democracies - including Ukraine - and will say no to isolationists and those who want to divide us. 🇺🇦 Перемоги і миру всім українцям! 🇺🇦

[@arek7198]

Dziękuję panowie za bardzo ciekawy program. Wiele informacji się od was dowiedziałem świetną robotę robicie.

[@SiliconCurtain]

👍👍👍

[@johncromwell2529]

Mike Johnson now a traitor in both USA and Russia😅

[@joseltejeda2270]

Hard to understand this guy. I think he always wanted help Ucrania, but he is also afraid of what could happen to his political career, at the end the right thing to do prevailed in him.

[@bigolboomerbelly4348]

​@@joseltejeda2270Johnson was a fall guy for MGT. He spoke to Mr Burns and American Baptist ministers that russia oppressed.

[@18_rabbit]

@@bigolboomerbelly4348 so, that's how profoundly ignorant and bizarrely reactionary my american baptists (very conservative Massive branch of american evangelicalism) is. I am so disgusted by so many ppl in my country. Ppl talk about the left and right being polarized. No, it's the center and left who are polarized naturally from the reactionary right. It IS that simple and ppl globally need to grasp this, bcuz it's real. The reason MAGA calls itself and is considered by academics as a 'movement' is because it is, and that is not normal in free societies which the US actualy is one of! These are ppl orientated to use violence if they dn't get their way. They must be quashed, ie countered, shown to be wrong and socially ostracized. That's what politics is ultimately, and always has been, ie social.

[@msvergara]

Very interesting and enlightening interview

[@user-nz8zj3hp6z]

Ah, Simon Jenkins - the chaff machine for the smoking rooski jet (pardon the military metaphor) trying to avoid getting blown out of the sky by people who can still think straight...

[@chromatec4311]

Great summary - this is a problem about the resilience of democracies - never a truer word spoken.

[@markcross6780]

Good show!

[@msdotsyak]

Thank you for all that you do for Ukraine 🇺🇦

[@georgine321]

A Library of Insights. I completely agree and am also very grateful. An excellent discussion, Jon and Stas.

[@migproductions4045]

I was heartbroken to miss the comments section on Silicon Bites #42 only because my heart swells with the need to compliment your excellent work Jonathan! How I rely on you for sober analytical assessment! Love to you and your amazing work love from Silcon Bites #42 🤗 xxx SLAVA UKRAINE! 😇💙

[@halporter9]

Yes, your work is vitally important. I can’t understand why you don’t have 6 figures in subscribers. Maybe your content is too demanding of intellectual attention over an hour. Not a criticism of anyone. I’m a 76 yo with ADD. Sometimes I just can’t attend to some subjects, even trying. The other side of the coin is hyper concentration. Sometimes when I am writing (professionally) I can start and then come up for air 4 hours later. With you, it is the latter.

[@agustinussiahaan6669]

Thanks, Silicone Curtain. Perhaps the propagandists do have access to delete KZbin comments.

[@dannydetonator]

Some certainly do, from personal experience. Question remains, are these groups of bots reporting comments with information debunking their lies in masse, or might there also be insider Kremlin agents among YT mods. I guess the latter have infiltrated every relevant place lately, even my country on the highest alert with secret services working overtime. I'm not surprised, just wondering when we'll see the end of this hybrid/info-war..

[@JasonShaw-hh9xi]

"Epic Wrongness". I love it. That'll be the name of my band.👍🤣 Glory to Ukraine.🤘💙

[@gerryhouska2859]

The world is a wonderful place!

[@hybridarmyoffreeworld]

Дело движется к концу, Моль летает по дворцу, Какая боль, какая боль, Весь мир плюёт на эту моль! Ждём дистанционную швабру, для повышения духовноскрепности в Швабростане 🇷🇺

[@bettyhedrick6193]

A very intelligent conversation 👍 thank you.

[@user-mv2nv6rd9b]

"library of interest" well said. Historians will value this source in the future.

[@pcopeland15]

Thank you for your work on this topic.

[@3029dz]

It's a funny thing that Retired President Richard Nixon predicted this back in the 1980's.

[@SiliconCurtain]

I saw that video - extraordinary. But Reagan and thatcher also understood the Russian world’ very well.

[@phillee2814]

@@SiliconCurtain Yes, Maggot Thatcher understood it so well that she used Kremlin subsidised coal to destroy the British coal industry. That was just the thin end of the wedge.

[@stevenjohns-savage7024]

Yeah 😊. It's been hitting our media over the conflicts 😊. But I can't help myself and get back in social media 😊. Boy it feels so good 😊. Hahaha. I use abit of dark humour and take the Piss 😊. Hahaha thanks Jon

[@dragonambusher]

One of the principals personalities who is spreading this idea that you can negotiate with Russia, that basically means not negoziate, but accepting its conditions is pope Francis who is a person who influences over the opinion of million of people. This upsets me a lot.

[@SiliconCurtain]

Yes, unfortunately

[@user-bk5hy8kg7b]

Long live the West! SLAVA UKRAINE! from Italy ❤❤

[@zipperpillow]

It's repugnant in the extreme that after countless Trillions spent on compulsory public education, people still want to be told how to think. What does this say? Someone please tell me how I should think about this.

[@Michael57825]

It's convenient to let someone else ( politicians, propagandists ) make decisions for you. But a true and safe election comes out of critical thinking. This mind set should be encouraged at a low age. Unfortunately there is a lot of buzz going on at different levels when you'r growing up that demands interaction. So I think you create a kind of shell to cope with all info. The brain is still stone age. Then as an adult you are fully occupied to provide for your family. Most people listen to the news as some sort of distraction. And the news don't give deeper insights. It's demanding to be critical and you need the right tools i.e education. In Sweden the boys are legging behind. " Want to be told how to think " - that is the intro to a fascist-state. As Mussolini said; you pluck the hen one fether at a time then it will not notice. Scary times

[@djparn007]

Thank you, Jonathan. Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦

[@dannydetonator]

RU black/gray propagandists have upped their game, especially after Prigozhin's death (as he was in charge over a large part of it). One example: just yesterday Latvian portal Appollo reported on "guided tours" for fake "western journalists", around 40 of them this time. They're being shown Russian-occupied territories of Ukraine, distributing humanitarian aid, rebuilding facades of bombed towns, greeting locals singing prises to "liberators", etc. In short, a disgusting show á la N. Korea. Turns out these "journalists" are pro-Kremlin activists with a long history of pushing Kremlin narratives, besides being citizens of western countries (like Netherlands, UK, US, Germany, Belgium, France, Latinamerica etc.). They get paid accordingly to their influence, experience and reach, typically €1000 for a 5-day tour organised by GRU and Russian MoD. The network of distributing this material is much wider than just their own chanells (includimg here on YT), making huge echochambers of these manufactured materials along with drone and other footage from war and Russian propaganda machine provided to these "western" agents. Among goals is to portray apparent western support for Russia and all the rest what comes with it. They were doing it even before 2022, but have increased it recently. Even Latvian citizens have been among them (ethnic russians, some from Russian opposition party), swiftly charged at home for justifying Russia's agression and genocide, which our law accomodates for since 2022. Previous propagandists were arrested, some escaped to Russia upon release.

[@CynthiaBlair]

I saw that hearing with Prof. Snyder and MTG - she addressed him with accusations of Nazis, yet did not want to allow him to dispute her allegations - but he did anyway. So she's an example of a person who has strong beliefs but refuses to entertain any factual evidence of the contrary. Back in 2022, I wanted to understand in greater depth the history of Ukraine and this conflict, so I decided to take Prof. Tim Snyder's free Yale course "The Making of Modern Ukraine" - that's MY idea of "due diligence". Maybe my prior naivete of Eastern European history was a good thing - I had no preconceived ideas of Ukraine or Russia. Seeing videos of the invasion on the news, and markedly, Bucha - it was obvious Russia's actions were inhuman and outright genocidal, and Russia having the audacity to say this was "staged" was ridiculous. Logically, Russia's propaganda makes no sense to me any more than Qanon and conspiracy theories. As to President Zelenskyy, my favorite place to look at someone's character comes directly from their words and actions. For me, Zelenskyy speaks truth to power- I listen to his addresses daily, direct on Telegram, or his interviews - that influences me more than any articles by magazines. I have never heard him LIE. I don't believe resistance against Putin's Russia is futile. I do see many of the internal flaws with our international orgs - like UN and NATO or the EU, they do need to update given evolving global threats...but it can be accomplished. We HAVE TO find a way to dispel the political weaponization of lies. To think of Ukraine losing this war because of Kremlin lies? Incomprehensible!

[@pcopeland15]

Snyder classes, those that I've seen, are excellent.

[@W_Bin]

8:00 What is notably missing from the dialog is authoritative rebuttals of the "negotiations" disinformation. Putin says he had a "signed" agreement that Ukraine walked away from. The only person I have seen refuting it in English is Arestovych, on a channel which was lucky to have 100 views. Where is the truth from Zelensky, answering Putin?

[@christianecoughlan7392]

We call them « exvangelicals ». The real evangelicals are not falling into that trap!

[@victoriahigman6802]

Yes it pivots

[@andrewthomson137]

Your Guest Stas was generous with just suggesting contradictory arguments were presented by Russia. I suggest all the arguments are total nonsense to justify the power motive. Good to see the comparison with the Climate Crisis. As said, not just Russia. Good interview Silicon.

[@W_Bin]

Hidden comment alert - Jonathan- sort your comments by Newest first to view

[@icedzinnia]

❤

[@marisabenson1222]

Thanks. Have you seen the youtube video : Rebellion: The Litvinenko Case by Andrei Nekrasov? It's a real eye opener and details the criminal activities in Russia by the FSB and Putin. It details the circumstances around the second Chechen war and I was surprised to see how strong the far right were. That made me wonder about the connection between far right groups in other countries. Also how the communists were silenced and harassed while protesting. An excellent documentary.

[@WalterBurton]

👍👍👍

[@bigolboomerbelly4348]

8:23 with the mistakes we made and Ukraine made it is a lack of good. With russia it is the presence of bad. Yeah we could've supported more and Ukraine could have been better prepared. That's in the past now.

[@pcopeland15]

His point about propaganda taking cues from petroleum marketing is interesting.

[@richardcory5024]

The credulity of the population dictates the levels propaganda must reach in order to be effective. I suggest that in Russia the authorities are very familiar with the precise amount of effort they need to put into their propaganda. Elsewhere, as in the US for example, little extra effort above that level is needed to spread the Russian version of events given that there is a highly credulous segment of the population actively involved in politics, susceptible to right wing narratives.

[@3029dz]

The narrative of Racist Nazis had me convinced for a few months in 2014 until I seen an Interview with a Azov guy explaining his Tattoo and his areas history during the Bolshevik Revolution to the German invasion in 1941. My local area had a group called Polar Bears of White Russian Army. Arkhangelsk, Russia Also was in Ukraine to some extent. This is not taught in History class and very much should be.

[@victoriahigman6802]

Remember the Guardian is on the left

[@no8637]

🎉

[@Miklos26]

How does one become a Disinformation Expert? Does it pay well?

[@joseltejeda2270]

What about Tucker Carlson, does he fit in these different layers of propaganda? Why did he become so pro- Russian?

[@SiliconCurtain]

He absolutely does. And in fact his repetition of Kremlin narratives has become more obvious and less nuanced over time.

[@wunderlol]

They (Kremlin mafia) gave him a new chance to "exist" after even Fox News bailed on his BS. The question is did it really help so much.. but it's a question I don't really care to know the answer to either way.. :P

[@EEX97623]

It's Tucker's revenge on the established media system that ejected him, by being a contrarian for views that undermine US stability.

[@PKowalski2009]

People I know who catch on to pro-Russian propaganda usually do not do so out of love for Russia, but out of dislike for the Western mainstream. They want to find justification for their hatred, and Russia gives them "arguments." They may come out of right-wing or left-wing stances; or they may seek satisfaction in being at odds with the dominant, government narrative. But it's always the Western mainstream they're running away from.

[@timmommens901]

@@wunderlol The next Steven Seagull 😊

[@alvarobarcala]

It would be interesting if you guys, youtubers, warn about some new Russian strategies that I have noticed. Strategies done to fragment Western society. Things like this: There is a huge wave of videos and memes creating confrontation between Western generations, between the so called boomers, x generation and so on. I've seen many of those contents come from Russian platforms or creators. Then, sadly, you see in the comments of such videos plenty of Western people fighting each other, defending their generation or blaming the other. This silly confrontation obviously existed already, but Russians are using it to magnify it, so to fragment Western society more and more.

[@OrataKopata]

Silicon Curtain 14 hours ago Silicon Bites - Summary of key news & events Edition No42 | 23-04-2024 ~~~~~ … Comments are turned off. Learn more Oi, bruv! It seems there's some trouble with the comments, guv'nor. Looks like they're turned off, old chap. Ain't that a bummer...Oh, well!

[@blasterrax5621]

o7

[@SiliconCurtain]

?

[@JanB56]

@@SiliconCurtain from what I know it is a sign of a salute ("o" being the head and 7 being a hand saluting)

[@blasterrax5621]

@@SiliconCurtain it's a salute :)

[@piseag458]

​@@blasterrax5621 😊

[@mgiorno]

Is the KZbin channel called "Russian Code" a tool of Russian propagandists?

[@cuffalobill]

you never talk about how your view on the war is 75% Ukrainian propaganda

[@One_And_Equal]

Lovely reporting, but where are the intellectual teeth? Excellent discussion of propaganda memes, their malevolence and effectiveness, but no ideas for defence or active countering. Olenchenko asserts fact checking doesn't work. How then is Kremlin messaging, when identified, to be combatted? What about the NAFO phenomenon? What to DO about the likes of Simon Jenkins - an obvious FSB asset, possibly of conviction, a la Philby in broad daylight - for decades! - at the heart of British journalism?

[@shaunarmstrong8594]

Ok, so now they are accusing Charap, a former NATO liaison officer to Ukraine, of being a Russian asset? He works for Rand, hardly a pro-Russia outfit. These two amateurs are now claiming that their ability to detect Russian assets is better than NATO and Rand? Deal with the details of Charaps article and argument instead of making unfounded smears on the mans character and motive.

[@sailawayteam]

Well, Nato and recently EU parliament has form with real spies and payed assets, so no, they don't always recognise when they have russian assets working for them. Same thing in US, no reason why not in UK. They questioned the article's starting point, in my view with good justification, and discussing (sometimes imaginary) details just spins the story.

[@geoffheneghan6332]

Didn't understand any of this.

[@bigolboomerbelly4348]

0b 0d

[@victoriahigman6802]

That writer sounds like Biden grumbling over Israel

[@piseag458]

Lovely Anna from Ukraine uses her nose ,and suggests that we sniff out Russian BS 😅 but then Anna has a Ukrainian nose, a finely tuned olfactory system developed and passed down through the generations able to detect the slightest whiff of Kremlin crud😅😅

[@user-qu6qg7sk4v]

mR. PuTiN always finds a way to make russia stronk. Glory to the democratically elected president of his personal federation! 💪🇷🇺💪

[@MadDog-1961]

Kremlin Bot Alert!!!☝ Joined Jun 13, 2023 рaссия вперёд! = Go Russia!

[@yaish100]

always ask yourself, what is the main idea of the text or a video. then answer to yourself what this idea wants you to think

[@opanasovych_svirid]

Want to point your view on exact charity in Ukraine. COME BACK ALIVE (savelifeinua). This charity raises money in big quontities and almost all of it goes to military projects/weapons. It's the most knowned and honored found with very high level of expertise. If some business has a mark that they coworked with CBA - 100 plus to their carma. 😊❤ Thank you.