State Cancels US Citizen’s Driver’s License - Says He’s Not a US Citizen

It happened in TN.
www.lehtoslaw.com

[@nigelleyland166]

I'll guarantee he'll be a US Citizen when it comes to pay taxes!

[@benjurqunov]

Non citizens pay US taxes too !

[@PioneerRifleCompany]

@@benjurqunov How so? What taxes are they paying?

[@nigelleyland166]

@@benjurqunov Maybe understanding English would be helpful.

[@benjurqunov]

@@PioneerRifleCompany Mostly Income tax. But there's excise tax, fuel tax, state tax. The list goes on... Anybody in the US, either earning money or buying something is paying taxes.

[@PioneerRifleCompany]

@@benjurqunov So they are paying taxes with the money that citizens paid because they are then using that money to pay taxes? Please break this situation down and explain exactly where their money comes from and what taxes those folks pay. Be very specific about where their 'earnings' come from and what INCOME tax you are referring to.

[@BigBoyJay_69]

I'm just confused how they entirely revoked his license. It's one thing to deny a REAL ID, but for them to go out of their way to make life harder for the man is cruel.

[@jasonwomack4064]

If you attempt to get real ID and fail the credentials they're supposed to void your license. It forces you to eventually get the fancy ID that way. However, most DMVs won't do that, to avoid the inevitable screaming incident.

[@AshKast]

It's Tennessee.

[@jasonwomack4064]

@@AshKast real ID rules are federal. They're just doing what they're told. Stupidly.

[@P_RO_]

Here in SC new licenses AND RENEWALS have to be upgraded to "Real ID" standards now. And the bastards here don't remember that we had to offer the exact same documentation to get a driver's license back in 1974- now they want to see it again? Wasn't once enough? All of our government is seriously effed up.

[@AshKast]

@@jasonwomack4064 I agree. Citizenship and immigration are federal matters. Having said that, TN should not be making arbitrary rules on determining citizenships.

[@IMGreg..]

Citizenship is not even a requirement to hold a drivers license in most countries, even the US.

[@Jbmc65]

Agreed 100%, my parents that were Canadians had a home in Florida and the Florida government and I think it’s the same in all states that after you have been in the state (living) for 30 days you must transfer your vehicle and licence over to that state. My mom and dad had Florida DL and Florida Tags

[@tray3120]

They are doing the real id here in Maine too because the government won’t except out license as legal id because of how easy they are to get so without the real id we can’t fly or enter government buildings

[@cparks1000000]

Indeed.

[@matthewmiller6068]

@@tray3120 There's also other funky laws, I was at an event and some mid-30s guys with Washington, DC licenses were trying to get others to buy them alcohol because the ABC store in that state claimed "Washington, DC is not a state, we can only accept state-issued driver licenses for proving you are 21"

[@CharlieLarkin75]

That was the case until REAL ID, although most states have a work-around for legally present foreign nationals.

[@Pepesmall]

Anyone who thinks this country hasn't lost the plot is completely out of their mind.

[@yaqbulyakkerbat4190]

Country: Treats veterans like garbage. Also Country: "Why won't people join the army?!"

[@Fadamor]

To be fair, this wasn't the country rejecting his citizenship. This is the State of Tennessee.

[@ro101anon7]

​@Fadamor true. This is a Tennessee thing. However, the bs we vets go through is phenomenal. I have forbidden my sons from joining.

[@yaqbulyakkerbat4190]

This is going to shock you. But states are part of the country ​@@Fadamor

[@christopherscott8272]

​@yaqbulyakkerbat4190 I think his point was federal vs state.

[@ElGoogKO]

This is so small compared to other egregious things done to the soldiers by the country they are serving.

[@HealingSwordsman]

You can bet that if this man moved to another country the IRS would be after him for taxes!

[@Tiewaz]

From what I've heard, it literally costs money to give up your US citizenship. They make you pay to do it.

[@toulousegoose1150]

Yep. Like HealingSwordsman says, we are one of only 3 countries in the world that forces citizens living overseas to pay taxes in both the US and the country where you live. During the time period you're doing the citizenship process for another country you're still paying taxes, and then an additional fee to give it up. It's $2,350.

[@sweetasflip]

We are the only country in the world that taxes its citizens while living and working abroad.

[@Tiewaz]

@@sweetasflip We are literally the Hotel California...we can check out anytime we like, but we can never leave.

[@toulousegoose1150]

@@sweetasflip Nope, it's us, Myanmar, and Eritrea. We're in great company. s/

[@rayniecox7683]

I am an American citizen born abroad at an American Military Hospital. I have 4 birth certificates. One from Germany, one from the American military Hospital, one from the American Embassy in Germany and when we came back to the states my mom registered my birth in the State of Texas. I'm 70 and definitely feel sympathy for this gentleman. 😎😎😎😎

[@danepcarver4951]

I was born to American citizens when my father was stationed in France with USAF. I have 3 birth documents; French birth certificate, hospital record of live birth, and Consular Report of Birth Aboard. It is unfortunate, however his parents should have file a CRBA many years ago. BTW, I live in a State(Oregon) where even illegal aliens are issued driver's licenses. Voters twice approved a ballot measure to prevent this, but our Legislature over rode the voters wishes.

[@Bo-hb3eo]

Same here. I was born in Germany in 1958 to military parents. Actually, my brother-in-law was in the army with Elvis, but that’s another story. I wish him luck getting this straightened out. This sucks.

[@Delimon007]

@@danepcarver4951 That should not be legal. If the voters wanted something and the representatives went against that, we basically are throwing out any form of democracy that our government has. Yes, we are a constitutional republic, but we use democracy to determine many things other than just who represents us. This is one of those things, ie. voting on a serious community matter.

[@IvanAlvarezCPACMA]

He is a US citizen based on the citizenship of his parents....this is completely moronic and a misunderstanding of the law from low level bureaucrats.

[@nevillejohnson1]

..but but but it's Tennessee though...

[@petesjk]

And the Republicans pushing realid

[@adb012]

Not necessarily, It is not clear what documents he presented. It is one thing to be born in a foreign country from US-citizen parents, and another thing to prove it.

[@coralieelliott2076]

@@adb012 he has a birth certificate

[@adb012]

@@coralieelliott2076 ... A CANADIAN birth certificate. That will not prove that he is American UNLESS he can ALSO show that his PARENTS are American.

[@ericarachel55]

the knee jerk reaction to 9-11-01 was the worst thing that happened to our republic and had escalated the destruction of our civil rights

[@Blink_____]

*calculated reaction

[@ericarachel55]

@@Blink_____ good call

[@robertaylor9218]

There have been worse, but it’s up there.

[@normbograham]

never let a disaster go to waste.

[@P_RO_]

And people forget which party was in control at the time... There is damn near nothing in "The Patriot Acts" which even faintly resembles something patriotic and parts of it are clearly unconstitutional. We need to change our government just as Jefferson told us we needed to do.

[@bobwatson8754]

The problem comes from officials being too dull to realize that this is their problem, not the problem of the guy who triggered it.

[@arribaficationwineho32]

Hiding behind shuffling papers and regulations

[@lynnz4874]

@@bobwatson8754 wrong. This has been a deliberate effort for years for Republicans to make it harder to vote by reducing locations increasing ridiculous requirements such as in Texas, where a persons ID must match exactly to the voter log and if even the abbreviation to the street address is incorrect they will deny you to vote. There have hundreds of laws being pushed through in the last several years to reduce voter turnout because the more people that vote, the less Republicans win. Go do the research. You will see this is a movement they are purposely doing under the guise of preventing fraudulent voting that does not exist. The very few cases of voter fraud that have been found were almost entirely Republicans anyway.

[@azcamperjohn1079]

DEI at its best.

[@joefarmer4465]

Tennessee, ENUF said.

[@lynnz4874]

@@bobwatson8754 no it’s a deliberate attempt that Republicans have been working on for years to make it harder to vote to make it harder to get IDs to vote and to make it harder to become a citizen to vote because when people vote, they lose! Very deliberate go look at all the new laws they’ve been trying to put in the last five years, including eliminating voting location, places, eliminating places and hours to get your license. Republicans do not care if you get one or not they’d rather not have one because then you won’t vote. They’ve also been working hard and spending a lot of money to convince you that Government is broken just so that you stop voting and they can deregulate themselves some more as they have been doing. This is all on purpose.

[@lorainefrancesv]

He should sue the DMV, they shouldn't have so much power.

[@tedmoss]

They don't, they just think they do.

[@silsahchne7236]

@@tedmoss you're right. Since he knows how to drive, they think they are in control. This world is becoming more stupid and violent as time goes by.

[@haroldpierson5271]

He was born of BOTH American citizens. GUARANTEEING him to be an American citizen...

[@JadenYukifan28]

He was born in Canada to American parents, then they moved back to the U.S. after he was born.

[@fredmdbud]

But his birth abroad still has to be registered with the State Department (since he doesn't have a U.S. birth certificate) - provide birth certificates of parents or naturalization certificates (proof of parents' citizenships), marriage license, and proof the parents lived in the US or its territories for the required time. Guaranteed eligibility isn't any good without proof.

[@JadenYukifan28]

@@fredmdbud Maybe they did do that, but it wasn't through the Bank

[@Bronte866]

Absolutely.

[@Bronte866]

No. Registration is meant to be done at a Canadian consulate before the child is brought into the US or as soon after the birth as possible. But, at the time of this man’s birth that was NOT a requirement. I know because I have the exact same situation that I am going to comment upon above. The State Dept becomes involved only if the man (or myself) seeks a passport.

[@ottokiehl5413]

I was in a similar situation, having been born in Germany. My father was a US citizen, and was working in Germany for a US company. I have a "Report of live birth abroad by US parents" issued by the State Dept. This has served as my "birth certificate" my whole life. It's not a new concept.

[@jamesleung0]

Exactly, this man's parents did not file the paperwork before they brought him into the US as a child. Your parents did and saved you from this problem.

[@drago1149]

You are 100% correct that is what should have happened. The problem is government institutions ( state, city, school) were more lax back in the day and you could get away without having the proper docs as long as what you had was close enough. Take Driver's licenses at one point in time you could bring the souvenir birth certificate from hospital ( the one has your baby foot prints on it and probably ribbon) to get one. Then you could get a license and get them to to put whatever name you wanted on it. Wasn't supposed to work that but nobody cared to strictly enforce it. The real id law implementation unfortunately got every government agency to start to enforce their own rules that they weren't really following.

[@KelikakuCoutin]

DEI

[@zacharyhenderson2902]

​@@drago1149back in the day you could find a death certificate, use that to obtain a birth certificate and Social Security card, and then use those to get an ID

[@spvillano]

@@jamesleung0 or he simply lost his paperwork over the course of a long life. Guess he should have his life confiscated, huh?

[@michaeldurham4812]

I liive in Tennessee and this state is run by some of the worst people in the country. Our state legislature is absolutely corrupt.

[@advocateforyourself]

Amen to that

[@mind_of_a_darkhorse]

And yet, the people of Tennessee keep voting these clowns into office!

[@georgetaylor2819]

@@mind_of_a_darkhorse voting in favor of clowns gets us a circus every time -

[@TheRealScooterGuy]

Fix it.

[@Funkykryptonite_]

TN resident. TennCare denied my 12yo daughter saying she isn't a TN resident. She's lived and attended school here her entire life.

[@mmi16]

How many thousands of CITIZENS were children of SERVICEMEN that were born in other countries where the parents were stationed?

[@49plus0]

A lot of state employees don’t know federal law!!!!!

[@micwclar]

This is crazy. A drivers license is permission to drive, not proof of citizenship. If you can prove residency, you can get a DL. Someone owes this man an in-person apology.

[@scriptles]

Have to check if they even offer standard licenses anymore. I remember being told in my state after a certain date they would ONLY issue real id licenses. Don't know if it's true or not but I do have a real id now. A friend I knew worked there and when I was getting it renewed asked if I wanted to get a real id or wait so I had all the documents with me anyways and updated it. Not sure if this is the case for TN or not.

[@douglasphillips1203]

REAL ID basically combines both in one card.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

@@scriptles It depends on the state as the Feds don't have the constitutional authority to dictate who can and can't have a driver's license.

[@scriptles]

@@SmallSpoonBrigade That's only a sorta thing. On the federal level we have agreements with other countries that allow them to drive on our roads. But thats a complicated thing.

[@xenialafleur]

If he's not getting anywhere with Tennessee, his cheapest option might be to get a US passport. He can then use that to prove that he's a US citizen.

[@stevec3526]

Yes…

[@patriciaspears328]

US passport and the passport card, then doesn't need real ID. This is also proof of US Citizenship for driver's license.

[@jorgerobles628]

That is a good idea ONLY if the people from Tennessee believe that having a US Passport is acceptable as a means of Citizenship. I got the same problem in Houston, Texas, and when I was asked by an official ID, I gave the clerk my Newly Renovated Passport, and she did not accepted it. Then she called a Texas Trooper to escort me from the premises, so I called my boss at DHS, explained what was going on through the phone, and next thing I knew was that Mr. Rumsfeld himself was asking all the personal info from this clerk and the trooper, and I had my Driver's license three hours later. You always have people that are a real disgrace working for the Government, specially State Agencies........

[@charlesbirr6782]

To get a passport you need a drivers license as id

[@richardhole8429]

YES! That is his best solution

[@aaronvw81]

He should apply for a passport that trumps all real ID’s.

[@lilypudd]

He has to have a current ID with a picture. He probably only has that for his DL. So it's a catch 22.

[@rjh1394]

The greatest threat anyone will ever experience will come from their own government. Truer words have never been spoken.

[@RyanBlackhawke]

Wife is Canadian citizen but lived here for decades and has had her drivers license for as long. Now she's also a US citizen. TN really is a terrible state.

[@doghair5403]

TN is a great State, but like all States it has some bureaucratic BS.

[@samstewart9249]

Not really, just what you get when you elect a Republican super majority.... craziness!

[@montyjackson8156]

@@doghair5403 Not so TN is a racist state.

[@cliff481]

I am now a US citizen with a real ID. but in 1976, as a UK citizen, I worked for Carnival Cruise Lines out of Miami and spent every Saturday on land in Miami. On a weeks dry dock, I rented a car and visited the FL DMV and took my driving test (been driving in UK for over 10 years) and passed. I was issued a license with a SS# of 00 000 0000. I was not even a resident at the time but was legally let loose in USA on a C1 and D1 visa. I am so sorry that this happened, especially to a vet. No excuse guys. Do better!

[@KJ-md2wj]

His bad luck that the application processor saw the word Canada and didn't read that his parents were both American (making him legally an American in any country). Pettiness and stupidity you can't win against.

[@rivjoy]

In Michigan my home schooled son was over 18 was unable to get a license because he had no photo ID. He eventually got a passport which took almost a year after sending piles of documents they kept saying no we want another ton of documents. Eventually he said forget it send everything back, then someone felt sorry for him and sent the passport. I'm convinced bureaucrats find it easier to say no than to anything that requires effort.

[@bluesteelbass]

Government workers

[@msalzberg4962]

One more example of how bad the Patriot Act is. The bureaucrats have to follow the law. Blame the law, not the bureaucrats, who have no leeway.

[@bs3375]

No, I blame the bureaucrats for being too stupid to use common sense and bring this to someone's attention. The law doesn't get fixed if no one brings attention to it. This should never have been allowed to get this far. Not to a 77 year old veteran. Not to anyone.

[@Freedom_Half_Off]

This has been playing out the last 4 years as state after state implement REAL ID . Millions of U.S. citizens that don't have the "right" documents have been hit with this kind of stuff . Women who got married but never went back to their maiden names that matches their birth certificate after a divorce . Homeless people who can't even get their birth certificates because they don't have the additional documents demanded by the REAL ID Act to get a copy of a birth certificate . People who can't get a replacement SS card because Social Security demands a birth certificate and drivers license . This is in no way new .. at all . This story just found a way to go viral by exposing a very common problem under a new headline that misrepresents what is actually going on and why ...

[@msalzberg4962]

@@bs3375 You don't know that they didn't.

[@gailhonadle5182]

If the people who run the Athens DL office were not told what the 14 A states on citizenship, this would not be an issue. You can probably add legislators in there too. Mr. O'Connor's parents might not have known they needed to change his BC. 77 years ago is a different time frame.

[@danielspanton1676]

This was a common occurrence when I was a recruiter for the US Army. If it hasn't already been suggested he could request a certificate of birth abroad from the US Secretary of States office. He would provide his Canadian birth certificate and his social security card. It has been a while but I believe an EPSQ (electronic personal security questionnaire) would need to be filled out. I hope this reaches him and that it's not a dead end. Good luck. No veteran deserves to be treated like this.

[@BCNeil]

Yesh Canadian here. Had a Washington state license while I attended school. In fact if you stay in the USA over 6 months. YOU ARE REQUIRED TO GET ONE

[@dadsapp]

It just requires a Grand Jury of tour peers to make it so.

[@steveh7508]

Just like most countries

[@adaroben1104]

TN isn't the US, clearly it's a third world nation

[@glennshrom5801]

@@steveh7508 It depends on the state, not a US law.

[@jgrenwod]

@@BCNeil yes, but you were in the US legally and could prove it. He can’t.

[@TheGamersRace]

A social security not being proof of citizenship is literally laughable

[@JeanPierreWhite]

You can get SS without being a citizen.

[@chedelirio6984]

But it is not and it explicitly says so in the SSA documents. You are not required to be a citizen to get one, just authorized to work in the US.

[@JeanPierreWhite]

@@chedelirio6984 You don't even need to have the right to work in the US. When I was on a 6 month assignment in Tennessee I was stopped for speeding. Ooops. The police officer let me off but informed me that if you live in the state for 3 months or more you must obtain a TN driver license. I was unable to obtain a TN drivers license because I didn't have a SSN. I applied for a SSN. When asked why I needed a SSN I told them I needed it to get a DL. The SS administration agreed and issued me a SSN even though I only had a visitor visa good for 6 months. I got the US DL and all was good. The SS card had printed on it "Not valid for employment".

[@kdavis1492]

He should sue the crap out of every Tennessee official involved.

[@joehackney1376]

The real question is--- Is Tennessee a part of the U.S.???

[@gali01992]

When I was stationed in New Mexico, many times I had to argue that it was part of the United States.

[@montyjackson8156]

They still think they are apart of the Confederacy.

[@jaimebarillas4253]

😳😳😳​@@gali01992

[@uselesscause3178]

@@gali01992 haha! I hear that is a thing. Maybe some dumb arse politician will accidently build a wall around New Mexico.

[@gordwrath6811]

I had the IRS declare me decieced one year, when I was doing my taxes. They said I changed my birthday. I asked them how? They told me I had to be the one who changed it, or i was wrong about my birthday. I asked them how it could have changed? They said I had to have come in and physically told them to do it. I asked them if they had any records of me doing that, they said no. So someone at the IRS changed my birthdate, and they wouldn't admit it. Morons.

[@rl453]

Omg I went through something similar!

[@temitopeej8407]

OMG How frustrating!

[@analogkid4557]

I guess tjey don't get tax money from you anymore.

[@jimfromm3981]

I have told my grandson many times, the most dangerous people in the world possess a small mind and a little bit of power. Stay away from them, stay away from Tennessee.

[@Circracer]

With all the crap going on with the border. I can't believe that this could happen. Makes me sick

[@shawandrew]

I'm a Canadian permanent resident and I am allowed to have a US driver's license.

[@repro7780]

Me too! I have an SSN as well.

[@shonnsutton5425]

@@shallowgal462 They took away his regular driver's license. They say that because they don't believe he is a citizen, he can't have a driver's license period.

[@nathanlamberth7631]

It’s because you filed your paperwork instead of just complaining to the media.

[@alienkittens]

You can get a drivers license in Pennsylvania with just a work permit. Not a permanent resident (green card) although you can get one with a green card too.

[@shawandrew]

@@shallowgal462 i don't know what you mean by "enhanced", but it is a real id driver's license. It can be used for ID on domestic flights within the US.

[@MrBitflipper]

Had a relative go through this in Missouri. When he went to renew his CDL, it was denied because he was born at an overseas US military base (both parents US citizens). Ignorance is rampant, and some of those ignoramuses get jobs in state bureaucracies.

[@MonkeyJedi99]

Heck, there are people working in state lobs who STILL think being from New Mexico means you're not American.

[@TheTkiller9999]

Get a US passport, they are used to seeing foreign birth certificates and can check easier on the validity.

[@JDLupus]

They're also immune from any negative repercussions for their incompetency, I believe, so there's no incentive for them to even care about doing things right.

[@Delimon007]

Oh my god that's hilarious 😂 Do these people not know that being born on a military base counts as US soil? Do they not know that was written into our constitution? They should read it sometime.

[@aidankelley2696]

@@Delimon007 they could have even been born in saudi arabia of all places and still been considered a US citizen, we literally have laws for this, if your parents are both us citizens and you were a child at the time your automatically considered a US citizen, regardless of which country you were born, because otherwise you'd be without a country of residence

[@markelliott7917]

It would be fun to do a deep dive into the citizenship status of everyone at the TN licence office!!

[@stanleytolle416]

What would this state do with the late Senator McCain's Panama birth certificate?

[@KJ-md2wj]

VIP's and Hollywood don't have these petty problems.

[@BarryP]

To me, this sounds more like an "accidentally on purpose" clerical error for TN to disenfranchise him long enough that he cannot vote in November.

[@justsayen2024]

That's one way to purge the voting roles.

[@JonBrase]

What would be the point in that? Demographically speaking, he's likely to be a Republican (white male boomer veteran living in the south). Why would they want him off the voting rolls, or want to risk angering his friends who can still vote and are also likely otherwise to vote Republican?

[@MH3GL]

They call this a "test run."

[@DS-lt7fw]

Yeah, because this one person's vote is going to tip the ballot in a state that always leans republican. Good one. 🙄😂

[@nunyadayumbusiness591]

@@DS-lt7fw Yea, not like TN has any history with disenfranchising it's voters... If you live in Nashville or Memphis, you don't deserve representation because you elected a black democrat, and they'll kick your rep out for being a black man calling for gun control. (Can't call bullshit - it already happened)

[@glenmel78]

To me this sounds completely normal for the government. My grandfather died in Feb. Served 41 yrs airforce/post office. We have mailed death certificates to a dozen gov. entities trying to get survivor benifits for my grandmother. Today I'm dropping another in the mail because they still need proof of death. He passed in the V.A. We burried him in a military cemetery. His gov. benifits (insurance, retirement, etc.) have all stopped. It's been 5+ months now....

[@tomcede6428]

Did your grandfatther select survivor benifits when he retired? Selecting survivor benefits reduces the amount of the benefit but is passed to the survivor. If he didn't select survivor benefits the only thing your grandmother is entitled to is social security and medicare.

[@glenmel78]

@@tomcede6428 Everything, and I mean everything, was in place well before he passed. We were aware of what needed to be done. Not our first time being here. The V.A. helped get the process started like they normally do but here we are months later and some other office wants a death certificate. We started with 12 copies and blew through those. Requested another dozen and 4 of those are gone. The federal gov. has known this man since age 16. The gov. knows he's passed because they are the ones sending us the death certificates....it's stupid and that's why the gov. does it. They know no other way. I know from experience.

[@MeRia035]

Seems there is no low government can't stoop to. Reprehensible. I'm sorry to hear about your grandfather, my condolences ♥️🕊♥️

[@bs3375]

Brett Hull was born in Ontario, yet played his entire international carrier for the US. This young man obviously doesn't make enough money to be important. And people wonder why we (US citizens) no longer trust our own government.

[@tedmoss]

This is what happens when bureaucracy runs out of control. It happens often and they have to be slapped down. The problem is it takes so much effort and time to do so.

[@chaoticwonder3278]

If Raphael Cruz can be a US Senator, this man can have a Real ID.

[@bobjohnson4512]

Does Raphael have a Texas DL?

[@roberthboyd6073]

This is true and SENATOR Cruz flies on commercial airlines with a REAL ID. Somebody please help this man.

[@TinyHouseHomestead]

Cruz is a Citizen, but he is not a "natural born Citizen", that is why he cannot become President! 😁👍👍🇺🇸

[@amyhull754]

Senator Raphael Cruz is also constitutionally qualified to run for president. And when he was born in Canada (where his birth certificate was issued) only ONE of his parents was a U.S. Citizen. And, no matter how little I like his policies, his claim to birthright citizenship is entirely valid, and he has every right to a US Passport, a REAL ID, and to run for president.

[@PioneerRifleCompany]

Real ID is a freaking joke, do you have any knowledge of what it actually means?

[@LaZainabou]

The entire state should be embarrassed.

[@july8xx]

Well it is Tennessee where the family tree looks like railroad tracks.

[@Wyonative08]

Tennessee, typical. 😢😂😮

[@LDSVenus]

I lived in TN for 9 years and at that time they allowed non citizens to get a drivers license. Guess they changed that law. I was born overseas to American parents, my dad was a pilot in the US Air Force, my birth certificate was in a foreign language because the off base hospital had better facilities for a life threatening birth situation. Years later, after a divorce, when I went to change my name back to my maiden name in the local social security in NM, they didn’t want me to have my Social Security card, same reason. So my mother, being a very wise woman, had me send off to the federal Department of State for my American Citizen Born Abroad papers and in the mean time she had a 2nd cousin who was a state Senator and she asked him to get involved because he knew I was a citizen, he did and I got the name changed back to my maiden name on my Social Security card. About a month later I got my papers from the State Department saying American citizen born abroad. So I understand his frustration.

[@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket]

@@july8xx That seems like the pot calling the kettle black, one look at your KZbin and it's safe to assume you're a Red Neck yourself. You're thinking of the virginia's and other Appalachia mountains, not the Smoky mountains. Which hasn't been an issue since we invented the auto mobile and interstate highway; blue bloods are exceedingly rare and nobody I know in Kentucky, Tennessee, or Virginia is in a relationship with their kin; but I do know SOME second/third cousin stuff happens sometimes. I find that nasty personally.

[@josegaspar813]

We're talking about the state that gave us Hawk Tuah girl, the greatest meme of all time.

[@kenheise162]

This is a perfect example of government being stupid.

[@drkjdi]

As someone born to US parents outside of the country, this is not surprising. The state of Kansas did not want to acknowledge my paperwork from the state department. I lived in KS for 4 years and could never get a license there. Moved to where I am now and had no issues with the DMV here.

[@ramjam720]

I am never let down by government's ability to find new ways to add injustice to the people they are supposed to serve.

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

In all fairness, what did these people expect? Recruiters can say whatever they like to induce people to sign up and whatever lies they tell are rarely sufficient to get you out of the contract.

[@guyforlogos]

Ramjam, Well said.

[@jeffdeupree7232]

The cynic in me has concluded the government does NOT serve the people. It exists only to serve themselves, the ruling class that is becoming increasingly hereditary, and the wealthy class, already very hereditary. ‘The People’ are just fauna on the land to be managed and consumed, or mistreated for entertainment.

[@throckwoddle]

What do you mean? They are always just to the rich and powerful. It's kind of uppity for us commoners to think the government is intended to serve us. :)

[@nikonmark37814]

This is happening to me as of the video. I was born in Japan to an American father stationed in Tokyo, Japan as a member of the USAF and a Japanese mother and I was born on a American air force base. I'm retired USN and I was denied the renewal of my TN DL because the drivers license center told me they can't accept my birth certificate because I was born out of country and that I need additional documentation from the State Department verifying my birth to a US citizen. It's been 10 weeks since I sent off my paperwork to the Dept of State and have heard nothing and I have contacted my Congresswoman to resolve this problem.

[@CitEnthusiast]

It took me 3 months to get my certificate from State after my original carbon copy document was stolen. Stick with it, they will get it to you. It helps if you know the original form serial number, I had very luckily taken a photo of mine so had that info.

[@cplmpcocptcl6306]

Sounds like Tennessee has a lunatic in charge of the DMV. Sorry, you have to deal with such an idiotic situation.

[@pilsplease7561]

Shits likely to happen to my dad, he was born in Germany to a US and a German Citizen. So I bet they are going to F him over with Real ID.

[@jamesleung0]

Did you ever have a "Report of Birth Abroad" certificate?

[@nsahandler]

​@@jamesleung0 Doesn't matter.

[@JK-tq5oe]

He should have walked in there with a MAGA hat on - bet he would have received his REAL ID and had no issues :)

[@JohnQ5]

The process for becoming a citizen is in dire need of reform as this man, regardless of where he was born, is indisputably American is every way that matters.

[@ChillyJack]

Incompetence of this level from government workers needs to be made criminal.

[@DonGlassjr]

The lack of common sense, to fix the problem.

[@tankergear9857]

Theyre just following the rules. Blame the shitty laws

[@boggy7665]

This may be about disenfranchising blacks, many of whom were born rural poor in their parents' homes & never got a birth certificate.

[@freethebirds3578]

Bottom-rung employees have no authority to override stupid laws.

[@TheRealScooterGuy]

@@freethebirds3578 -- True, but they can double-check the law to see if there are exceptions or a process for him to follow, instead of refusing AND revoking his current license.

[@GeoffCook1000]

I've been a temporary resident in the US for 16 years and have a US drivers license.

[@resterAnonyme]

Temporary for 16 years? That sounds permanent. My wife is a Permanent Resident and has a real ID.

[@additudeobx]

@@resterAnonyme PR is a territory of the US.... go figure...

[@resterAnonyme]

@@additudeobx Permanent Resident

[@TheOrangeRoad]

Go back

[@christopherwilson2785]

​@@resterAnonyme Your PR wife is a US citizen lol. Wow

[@49plus0]

One doesn’t need to be a citizen to get a us drivers license!

[@JeanPierreWhite]

At least that USED to be true. Who knows now?

[@rhoonah5849]

Never underestimate the ability of the DMV to create a problem. I am a volunteer firefighter/EMT and the registry in my state can issue "red light permits" so we can legally use lights when responding to incidents. Our fire chief recently retired and the town decided to not hire another chief so the department is now lead administratively by a commissioner of public safety. Well, the registry is refusing to acknowledge his signature on the red light permit applications because he isn't a fire chief. One of our lieutenants called and explained to them the situation and nope, it needs to be signed from a chief. So now we are in a situation where no one can get red light permits because of some idiot at the registry. SMH

[@billrehm3590]

Why doesn't the governor step up and fix this.

[@2cartalkers]

Governors want $crill in unmarked Ben Franklins to do this type of work.

[@Agapy8888]

@@2cartalkers Yes

[@emeryjl]

Because this is a federal issue and not a state issue. For a RealID, you cannot use a birth certificate from another country. However, he can get a valid document (Certificate of Citizenship) by applying for one from USCIS.

[@billrehm3590]

@@emeryjl the governor can step in and get stuff done.

[@DS-lt7fw]

​@@billrehm3590 the governor cannot void federal laws. Congress needs to fix the law.

[@LowellMurphy-me5wm]

A friend of mine was born in England while his father was serving in the navy. He was able to get a US passport using this document. If the US government considers him a citizen, why can’t the state of Tennessee do the same for this person?

[@CrankyBeach]

Same thing applied to John McCain, who was born in Panama while his father was serving there in the US military. There was some back-and-forth about whether this made him ineligible to be elected president, but the question was settled in his favor. One would think that would set a precedent, but apparently those Tennessee bureaucrats knew better....

[@megalodon1726]

This guy's parents apparently never applied for his US passport, so now he has the nearly impossible task of proving at least one of them was a US citizen when he was born 77 years ago. That proof is much easier when the US citizen parent is still alive and the foreign-born child is still young.

[@bfin]

@@CrankyBeach I went through something similar when applying for my Merchant Mariners Document the first time...I was born in NAS Yokosuka Japan while my dad served on the USS Midway in mid 70"s, Mom was from Mississippi dad from NOLA. My birth certificate being issued by US State Department caused an issue at the CG station in Slidell LA. The first GC member kept trying to tell me my birth cert was no good because it wasn't a state issued BC, It took me asking for his boss for it to get approved, Station commander was asked for and him to explain why my BC was good which was because I was a US citizen born abroad and that is why I had a US State Dept. birth cert and why it was better than just a state issued one.

[@jerryinmon2731]

@@megalodon1726 The law at the time of his birth granted him automatic citizenship so there was nothing for his parents to do.

[@megalodon1726]

@@jerryinmon2731 automatic citizenship isn't very useful without the documentation to prove it. Being born in the US also gives you automatic citizenship, but without a US birth certificate or equivalent you may be unable to claim the rights and benefits of citizenship. His parents should have secured a US passport or citizenship certificate for him while he was a kid.

[@user-rk4lq2en9u]

Perhaps he spoke with a Canadian accent and was eating a box of poutine, and admitted he likes hockey. Sounds suspicious to me.

[@Ronin7477]

I will tell you all what it is.... it is another fine example of incompetent government employees poorly trained and versed in their jobs.

[@SergioFlorente]

Having to deal with a stupid official employee is a nightmare.

[@Vincent_Beers]

There's other kinds?

[@spvillano]

@@Vincent_Beers yeah, the two competent officials that exist in most agencies.

[@cindyphan9856]

Especially when that's all they hire !

[@KM-zu9we]

There’s also a current case in FL where a marine was recruited and promised citizenship. Got a license, worked here for decades…. Now they have cancelled his license.

[@toulousegoose1150]

Met a bunch of people like that in the military, including our chaplain. He was a very sweet older gentleman. He was recruited with the promise of citizenship (he's from South Korea and was an interpreter for the US Army there for years). They tried to pull his green card in the middle of our deployment.

[@jpboy1962]

This case is apples and oranges form the one in TN. This gentleman was not born to a US parent(s). He did not meet the requires for automatic citizenship sadly.

[@rcwagon]

Clearly we need more government. They are so efficient, thoughtful, and kind. They protect us from common sense. They protect themselves from unemployment. What a deal!

[@62Cristoforo]

people from the government are there to help you

[@captainjimolchs]

I am grateful that I am not receiving all the government that I am paying for. --Will Rogers.

[@intercat4907]

My state doesn't do this sh*t. Get back in your lane and blame the ones that actually do stuff wrong.

[@bonochromatic6841]

What if I told you that there are multiple governments and some are better than others? Your tone seems to imply that you consider any government to be a mistake, which makes you an extremist.

[@rcwagon]

@@bonochromatic6841 Some governments are better and some are worse. None are good. George Washington quote: "Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is a dangerous servant, and a fearful master." With that in mind government isn't to be trusted, but watched carefully. Also know that moderation isn't bad, just don't take it to an extreme. It is worth thinking about. You may disagree.

[@Strideo1]

Once bureaucracy takes over it always kills a nation's spirit and dynamism.

[@fjmarcliff1390]

It's not bureaucracy that kills a nation. Its the ignorant bureaucrats that do.

[@nsudatta-roy8154]

The federal law has all the provisions you mentioned. All the state had to do was follow those provisions.

[@blackosprey2219]

If I remember right, it's not the state's role to determine national citizenship in the first place.

[@Dantevonlocke]

Well Tennessee following federal laws is an ongoing issue.

[@nsudatta-roy8154]

@@blackosprey2219 Absolutely! It's crazy how each state has taken the law and follow whatever they want. The way the instructions for the states are written, everyone with a SSN, now a primary credential for ID and work purposes, can get a driver's license, but those licenses will generally have some federal restrictions posted on the license if the applicant hasn't qualified for a real ID.

[@TeflonBilly426]

Not the state, the guy applying for a license is the one that should be following the provisions, yet can only seem to whine to press rather than requesting the proper documents from the Canadian Consulate.

[@woodylinder338]

Get a passport and sue them for all of the harassment.

[@mencken8]

Bureaucracies are arbitrary, capricious, impervious, and obtuse. Add your own adjectives at will.

[@godfrea]

Apply for a US Passport.

[@unclefester6501]

John McCain was born in Panama and ran for president. This is a common situation.

[@donnashappyplace]

McCain was born on a US military base, which is US soil. Any American parents were required to file a form with the US government requesting citizenship for a child born outside the US within a year of their birth. Otherwise, the US government wouldn't know they existed, much like never filing a US birth certificate application. Do you think you could have a child at home, never file an application for a birth certificate, yet the US government would somehow know the child is American? This guy has been an undocumented immigrant and subject to deportation since he arrived here as a child.

You speak so authoritatively but there is no requirement to do this within a year of the child’s birth. I know this because I have read the CRBA rules, since I filed and received a CRBA for my son, and the people in line in front of me were doing the process for their daughter who was several years old.

[@nsahandler]

​@@donnashappyplacehe had a SSN so that happened dingus

[@KJ-md2wj]

@@donnashappyplace McCain was also son of an admiral, so he got VIP status.

[@BubblegumSempai]

​@@donnashappyplaceSo how did Ted Cruz get to be a governor?

[@browniewin4121]

It infuriates me that this US citizen is being denied his rights as a US citizen.

[@michaelharrison1041]

Get used to it. How many American citizens born in Canada will be unable to vote this fall in Tenn.?

[@macbook802]

Imagine how many illegal immigrants are driving commercial vehicles

[@beetlebailey]

@@macbook802 just go to any local truckstop you’ll see them

[@sirslickrock]

@@macbook802that’s not even on topic here.

[@Malidala]

Having a two tiered system like that is absurd on it's face. Why should someone even have to be a citizen in the first place to get a driver's license?

[@huizhechen3779]

Don't expect anything akin to justice from any Tennessee "public servant" (elected or not elected).

[@thtgrob1]

He is an AMERICAN 💯

[@jakebrake3000]

One of the most American stories I've head all week.

[@BillThor]

Should TED Cruz be expelled from the US Senate, I am sure his birth certificate is Canadian?

[@terryjwood]

My daughter was born in China. I adopted her in 2001, at age 14 months. The law, which was passed during Bill Clinton's administration (in 2000), said that a foreign adopted child becomes a citizen when her US citizen parent brings her to the US. So my daughter became a citizen when we flew from China and touched down in Chicago. Immigration took all her documentation and (because she was too young) I took the oath of citizenship for her. I thought that was the end of that. But noooooo. Social Security insisted she was a resident alien and wanted her registered as such. I'm arguing with a SSI clerk who insisted I was wrong -- until I got her supervisor get involved. The supervisor finally agreed that the law had changed and gave her a social security number as a US citizen. Then the whole thing started again with the Department of State. They refused to issue her a US passport, saying she was a resident alien and she needed to pass a written exam to become a US citizen first. They actually admitted that the law had changed and I was right -- she was already a citizen -- but they said they weren't "set up" to follow the NEW law and we just use the OLD law -- because it was easier for them. I have no idea how a 14 month old takes a written test. They even got into a shouting match with several other Gov't. agencies saying to me, "You think I'm afraid of them???" I finally contacted my Congressman. I guess they WERE afraid of HIM and she got her passport. Although I had to jump through a number of hoops to get her birth certificate certified because it was written in Chinese. Imagine that! A Chinese baby would have a birth certificate written in Chinese! So nothing surprises me anymore when it comes to bureaucrats.

[@helensolleconner9698]

It’s happened to several people - and folks are basically to sue for their citizenship. And at least a dozen veterans have been deported since 2018 !!

[@BCNeil]

So exactly the same as Ted Cruz

[@George-rb3by]

Actually one of Cruz’s parents was Cuban so this guy has lone more US citizen parents than Teddy boy.

[@richardcutts196]

Or John McCain born in Panama Canal Zone, not United States.

[@roellopez3737]

He can always argue he was born on earth 😂😂.

[@donnashappyplace]

​@@George-rb3byNot really. Any American parents were required to file a form with the US government requesting citizenship for a child born outside the US within a year of their birth. Otherwise, the US government wouldn't know they existed, much like never filing a US birth certificate application. This guy has been an undocumented immigrant and subject t9 deportation since he arrived here as a child. He has political signs all over his front yard promoting the right wing, anti immigrant candidates, when he probably should have applied for the dreamer act since he was brought here as a child that is a foreign national.

[@roquri]

You have to be a U.S. citizen to be a military officer. But not to be enlisted. Unless things have changed in the past 5 years.

[@stephendrake8145]

Citizenship is a federal issue not a state issue…

[@TuntematonX]

It's actually an international human rights issue as well - Universal Declaration of Human Rights Article 15, Sections 1 and 2.

[@mathewfullerton8577]

The issuance of drivers licenses is a state issue, not a federal issue.

[@ericojonx]

​@@mathewfullerton8577 Citizenship is Federal, not state.

[@metropod]

technically speaking, the states have their own citizenship. Every US citizen is also a citizen of the state in which they reside.

[@youtubecommenter4213]

@@ericojonx they didn't revoke his citizenship, tennessee just claims he's not one and refuses to issue a license to him.

[@ryanmiller14221]

Is there any lawsuit that can be filed against the state if they violate his right to vote as a US citizen ?

[@Pitviper1979]

What's it matter if they say he is not a citizen? They give them to non citizens.

[@MartinvonTours11.11]

Exactly!!!!

[@clarencewiles963]

My son had a problem with Virginia. He was born in Hieldelburg Germany. He had a Department of State Birth certificate and all his documents from the USArmy. It took the US Virginia Senator, and Virginia Governor to fix the issue.

[@gingercat7925]

Hopefully they do not attempt to charge him with illegally voting. Then again, maybe that would help resolve this issue.

[@BigKandRtv]

Leopards ate my face? Could be. Tennessee is a super-majority Republican controlled state.

[@tomeauburn]

When Trump puts people in camps he might be rounded up as an illegal

[@joshuahudson2170]

The banned him from voting in this election; that makes a federal case the easy way.

[@kenc2257]

Ha! The guys is a US citizen. He just doesn't have documentation acceptable to the Federal government (and the Tennessee DMV) to prove his US citizenship for the purposes of obtaining a Real ID drivers license.

[@Pintosonic]

In Canada there was a woman who fought for more than 20 years to get her passport because the passport office wouldn’t accept the validity of the birth certificate. She was resident of the province of Ontario but her mother gave birth to her in a hospital in Quebec. So she had a Quebec issued birth certificate on which was stated that she was an Ontario resident. The province of Ontario agreed that her birth certificate was valid, the province of Quebec agreed that her birth certificate was valid but the passport office didn’t consider valid a birth certificate where the issuing Province is not the same as the province of residency of the person. It took 20 years of legal battle for an administrative tribunal to tell the passport office that the law demands that the person have a valid birth certificate and it’s the issuing province that decides if it’s valid or not and the passport office is not allowed to add additional rules to consider a birth certificate valid or not.

[@londen3547]

Mind numbed robots that we have all come to know and love at the DMV.

[@glassman1533]

Kind of reminds me of TSA agents who won't accept District of Columbia drivers licenses as id to board a flight, because DC is not one of the 50 states or liquor store and/or restaurant owners who won't accept said id for purchasing alcohol for the same reason.

[@SayAhh]

Then there are the ppl who don't know that Puerto Ricans are US citizens from the moment they are born

[@glassman1533]

​@SayAhh Or Guam or USVI etc...

[@memyself1772]

​@@SayAhhand the poor New Mexicans

[@AutonomousNavigator]

The district is not intended to be a permanent residence. The whole purpose of the district is to serve the states. Permanent residence in the district is self-serving to the federal government.

[@glassman1533]

@AutonomousNavigator More than half a million people live in DC. The fact that residences have Bern built in DC since the 1790s kind if blows a hole in that argument. People who don't live in DC don't realize that only a small fraction of the area of DC encompasses government buildings. The rest is made up of neighborhoods, just like any other city in America.

[@cweaver4080]

A Canadian citizen can still get a US driver's license.

[@josephpadula2283]

A Canadian student studying in the US was arrested for not having a US license as she was not just visiting and had Been here longer than the time allowed when living in the state .

[@Wolfie713]

He wants a RealID, which may be part of the problem. Either that, or they may be required now, meaning that he can't get one unless he shows where his citizenship is from.

[@B_Bodziak]

He also lost his social security

[@geoffreyganoe5246]

@@B_Bodziak different story out of Florida

[@user-neo71665]

He's not a canadian citizen. His parents were both US citizens so he is one. From my understanding he was born on a US military base anyways. This is all red tape government BS steming from 9/11.

[@k.c1126]

Sounds like a stupid rank and file clerk error that higher ups doubled down on because their authority was challenged.

[@JoeOtaku]

I was born in Japan while my father was in the navy. I have a certificate of u.s. citizenship, (I think from the us embassy) as well as a US birth certificate. The dude just needs to get his deceased parents to do the paperwork.

[@Alverant]

I'm not surprised this is TN.

[@Mutation666]

What does Real ID have to do with him getting his license canceled. The reps response made no sense.

[@robertkohler4173]

Many if not most states have decided to only issue Drivers License with the Real ID identifier.. ie. you must be able to qualify for both or you get none.

[@krone5]

He is in the wrong state, NY would have probably given him a licence of some kind.

[@sanguineel]

The full picture, is most DMV/BMV workers are paid just above minimum wage, do not have tertiary education, and half of them aren't fully proficient in the laws and regulations due to insufficient training. This sounds like it may be the cause of this issue. If he had gotten a better dice roll and gotten a different DMV worker, he probably would have been fine.

[@MrBillrookard]

My sister could be in the same situation. My dad was transferred to Toronto for work for 5 years, and she was conceived and born there. As such she always had dual citizenship of sorts, but never had any issues getting passports and whatnot. Strange that he fell into that bureaucratic abyss and that they denied him getting a license at all.

[@garethcroson8851]

Tennessee should prove that it’s a state, and not part of a third world dictatorship.

[@scanmead]

It would only be fair. 🤷‍♀️

[@only1muppet]

It’s the lack of knowledge that everyone at the DMV seems to have. The requirements are federal law. I think it’s the employees that don’t understand how citizenship works when born out of the country. I think he needs to get an actual copy of his birth certificate, in the news video they only showed a xerox copy.

[@jasonbourne1596]

@@only1muppet Tennessee real ID requires proof of citizenship.

[@shonnsutton5425]

@@jasonbourne1596 His birth certificate shows that his parents were U.S. citizens, which makes him a U.S. citizen. His birth certificate is proof. The DMV workers need a refresher course in citizenship laws.

[@AlumniQuad]

Bring back the State of Franklin!!!

[@richboch739]

Steve, someone needs to ask the gentleman if he has ever held a US passport? - That's the only ID I have that proves I'm a US Citizen, never let it expire either! I used it for my REAL ID!!

[@jonf2126]

Exactly. When I went in for my Real ID driver´s license they didn´t even want my birth certificate. Just the passport.

[@michaelbox4394]

I lived in the US for 4 years, and obtained a driver's licence; but was never a citizen

[@willskol]

You are expecting bureaucrats to think. All they do is regurgitate laws as they understand them.

[@jmayuk]

You don't need to be a US citizen to have a drivers license. You just have to be a legal resident.

[@toulousegoose1150]

Real ID is a little different. It's supposed to be the equivalent of a passport as far as background checks. They're forcing people to get it, too.

[@flyer7694]

Not even a legal resident. As long as you are in US legally for an extended time, you can get a DL. I have had au pairs from other countries for 5 years now. they are technically here on student visas, and only for 1 or 2 years. But they all get their DLs and they are required to get sn SSN. They get paid and must have their earnings tracked. They are also required to be able to drive before being selected for the program and getting their visa in the first place.

[@bikeman7982]

You need to be “lawfully present” in most states to get a DL. States like CA issues DLs to undocumented persons as well.

[@jmayuk]

@@flyer7694 but in those cases they were legally residing in the state in question albeit for a determined period. The main point is that there is no citizenship requirement simply to have a drivers license.

[@lrmackmcbride7498]

​@@toulousegoose1150 real id does not require citizenship.

[@planetguardiansswordlord9296]

77 years old. I wonder if he is receiving social security benefits and a retirement from a US employer?

[@Money4Nothing]

I was born abroad to US parents. I got a passport, TWIC card, drivers license, ITAR clearance, and DOE secret clearance.

[@SearTrip]

They finally issued him a license, but not a real ID, and only after he filed a lawsuit. They really are digging themselves in deeper.

[@AeroGuy07]

Never underestimate the ability of the government to screw things up.

[@MrTrailerman2]

They've had decades of practice so they should be good at it.😂

[@spvillano]

@@MrTrailerman2 well, it's the Peter Principle. Fuck up, move up.

[@cindyphan9856]

On purpose ...to kill time ...for that lovely. PAYCHECK !

[@tonto2455]

This is ridiculous. A guy can risk his life fighting for his country but gets a kick in the butt for wanting a driving licence.

[@poet7158]

I served too however That does not give him or me the right to break our laws

[@theecstatic9686]

You served as a bootlikker. I can tell by your opinion. Whether or not a man serves in the military or not he has a right to the roadway.

[@davidowen9671]

I too am a US veteran, Army. Let's lose the absurdity that all these people risked their lives for their country and are heroes. For one thing it is grotesquely unfair to those soldiers who actually did something heroic.

[@kfox420]

​​@@poet7158Ummmmm... What law did this guy in this situation break?

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

It could be worse. I saw a story a while back about a marine vet that lost his citizenship in Australia when he enlisted in the USMC, and is now stateless because the government decided that to get citizenship via military service that there has to be hostilities going on. And the fact that the first Iraq war had ended before he was fully trained meant that he didn't qualify.

[@justinmileman7863]

So basically one ignorant desk clerk at the DMV ignorantly issued an ILLEGAL action, and they doubled down to avoid admitting the totally fucked up. Yeah, any first year law student could have a field day with this.

[@kathryng.9738]

I was born in the us. I moved from 1 state to another and ran into multiple documentation issues to get a "real id drivers license". Get a passport now and avoid future document issues. Its all about the bureaucracy.