Stationeers updated airconditioner

[@Sengyizhe]

Im glad to see that they turned the magical black box of witchcraft into an actual air conditoner

[@Dreamshadow1977]

Your analysis of things they add/change as the game goes on is very welcome. I always yeet something valuable when I play a session, just as a tribute to your hard work.

[@Spridonculous]

I saw the update and my first thought was "When is Mick making a new video? I'm too dumb to figure it out on my own."

[@darkhelmet433]

I looked at them and couldn't really see the point of them now. I had hoped that Mick might have had some tricks to make them worth using. Sadly, the recycler trick for re-gassing ores probably won't last much longer as it has been discussed with the devs as an exploit in the context of cooling.

[@semiprime]

I managed to get my Vulcan base back to normal by daisy chaining air conditioners. The trick is to set the temperature setting on the later stages higher than what you want, so you get the higher efficiency. Before the update, I had all my ACs waste connected to a tank full of Vulcan night air, and it worked fairly well, but after the update any AC unit that was cooling a high pressure tank actually seemed to be slowly heating it up. So I daisy chained 2 ACs and hooked up the waste line to the input of the last stage. 1st stage is Vulcan night air at 130 C. 2nd stage is pollutant at 90 C. Then pollutant at 55 C, then down to 20 C via the end AC units. This improved the "Temperature Differential Efficiency" from about a 5% average to about 75%.

[@cowsareevil7514]

I will have to give it a try. You still get the operational penalty for having a hing temprature but it should reduce the temperature difference penalty. Vulcan might be best cooled by using the AC to cool a refridgerant line and then use wall coolers. That might have more cooling power.

[@jojoskunk]

@@cowsareevil7514 Yes i use a 4 stage ac like you did to cool a 20C network reserve that i connect to convectors around the base. The fist AC dump the heat in a close network with 2 radiator not convector only at night controlled valve. All AC have +50 degree increment from the cold one. They average a temperature efficiency of about 50%. Working efficiency is not good for the first 2 but it work great. All AC gaz is pure CO2 at 1MPa.

[@Xuhybrid]

There is no need to use a centrifuge in your iron cooling loop if you use something that smelts into an ingot at venus atmosphere temperature. As long as the item smelts into an ingot it will melt down, removing heat, and won't off gas either, avoiding the pitfall of over pressurizing the furnace. For example, using lead (127C) or even solder (77C) you can output an ingot easily and no gas is created, only heat is deleted.

[@destari5917]

Just tired this on Vulcan with solder and it works wonders. Pressurize the furnace once to give it a bit of thermal mass, then feed it solder ingots and seal the loop. As it runs it can produce temperatures under 0C briefly but regularly stays well below 100C.

[@cola98765]

the IC slots I found use for, while I can efficiently manage 3 filtration units from 1 IC, they all require the pipe monitor. In case of general filtration of random gasses I had one IC to 5 filters and a pipe monitor. with the IC slots I can place the IC i each filter and it will work standalone... bringing efficiency of that line of filters a bit up. HOWEVER as I was writing this I realised that since now filters themself have much more data, I can put 1 filter per IC pin which would be much neater solution without pipe monitors at all.

[@aidanberger8875]

definitely agree, i really wish we had condensers and evaporators, been asking for ever but devs are afraid of all the other things it will effect and all of the changes have been moving away from this. Ever since the water pipe update :( . RIP the dream

[@cowsareevil7514]

They are talking of phase changes for liquids so I am hoping that will mean latent heating also. Then you can build your own AC that you can upscale with your base.

[@aidanberger8875]

@@cowsareevil7514 hooray theres hope yet!

[@deanhallrocketwerkz]

This is something we are looking into, but as noted it is going to take time for us to do things right

[@cowsareevil7514]

It's on the to do list. That is good news.

[@aidanberger8875]

Would be soo cool its at the top of my wish list. but I'm glad its on the table indeed.

[@dan7rex]

Thanks for this Video. I was just about to build your electric furnace before the update. Now I'm just trying to cool my base.

[@cybernamiyt]

I really enjoy your stationeers videos, and even though I know it can be hard to invent new content for us to watch... I hope you will continue to entertain and educate us in this game 😄

[@mwwoggy]

Thanks Mick - as always, fast with a workaround - now can't wait to play later with the new update

[@cowsareevil7514]

LOL, I hope you mean the winterspawn workaround.

[@WT_Waikiki]

Try using solder without the centrifuge and recycler. You can cool the gas to just below 100C. The solder will stop melting at that point but will remain solder. Just keep looping it thru. I used this to cool down water created from a combustor on Vulcan, just to see if it would work.

[@andrewcurtin7003]

Fire extingusher might be necessary now to jump start the cooling of rooms

[@NeilNDMay]

Thanks Mick. It all makes so much sense when you explain it.

[@GokouZWAR]

It does? None of these tests are based on any real controlled conditions for proper testing…

[@douvonnie]

The new update got me blowing up my base all the time lol. Glad your back I’m lost with out the videos

[@Bandit2033]

i mean theoretically, instead of using 6kw with one ac to achieve furnace temps, you could use like 20 in series, and using their waste pipe instead of the output, each with at max 100 degrees higher than the last to maintain a decent efficiency to still achieve furnace temps and itll also use about the equivalent, 6kw, in energy? Right?

[@cowsareevil7514]

Yes, but Stationeers is not about spamming the same item overn and over. it's about making a better way and maybe applying a but of brute force. If brute force doesnt work then you are not using enough of it. If it blows up then that is definitely what Stationeers is all about.

[@cola98765]

in the recent couple updates I needed to change my Venus cooling solution quite a bit. before those updates I had a void room, and electronic valves that would open when base got too hot, but one update fixed this exploit, and I had to place some air conditioners. I did 2 stage, 6 wide solution. They used A LOT of power topping at 60KW to get to -150C that I wanted as a buffer. this made me build quite a bit more power in my base Not long after this update came and I realised that max power usage is now fixed at 350W, so I had to make much more. I now have I think 10 stage 4 wide (it's huge) array of ACs and they use much less power that the previews setup and are able to bring down the straight Venus 460C air down to stable -120. (tho I would love them to be more powerful, like lets say 1000W like other heating elements) What I had to quickly learn is that now ACs don't pump from Input to Waste if there is too little pressure theere, so I had to manually bring the pressure in the whole system up so the pressure efficiency is ok. Configuration tablet mode was very useful there,

[@YodaIzChaos]

Lol. I noticed the IC slot in my filtration units and I was so confused. "When did they add these, and what am I supposed to do with it?"

[@jojoskunk]

i like those science and prof of concept videos

[@engimage]

It looks like sealing the frame does not insulate furnace, leaving it leaking heat though both convection and radiation (latest thermodynamics update). While placing one in a vacuum will leave it only radiating heat. There is no way to completely insulate one now

[@aracron]

I have been waiting for this! Thank you!

[@БодунУтренний]

well here goes my backup wind turbine generator.... and autofurnace will i make it to the base untill there will be couple of explosions? SURE NOT!

[@chriswoodend2036]

Since the ACs are moving a consistent volume of gas now, I wonder if the daisy chain method would work better on Venus if the daisy chain existed in several parallel daisy chains? Like I'm thinking of an Old West bathtub. It would be filled with room temp water effectively, you can warm it up only so fast if you're adding hot water a small cup at a time because the heat gain is spread out and the heat is radiating. To get it to a high temperature you'd need to use many cups (convert the cup size to a bucket size). Basically is the problem with the no-winterspawn cooling that it can't cool the volume of gas fast enough?

[@cowsareevil7514]

I think it is the efficiency loss in the high temperatures that kills it. IRL there will be losses when a real AC is out of the optimal temperture range but if you want an AC to operate at high temps then you design it accordingly. You can change the refridgerant gas to one better suited to the high temps and it will work just fine. And yes, cooling the water will be the real test.

[@cola98765]

I made scalable setup, and while I wish it AC's would use more power, 6-8 stage setup is enough to bring down the temps from 460 to something useful, and then you make it as wide as you need it in terms of amount of cold you need.

[@CrinosAD]

Thanx Mick, been waiting on this one while I've been experimenting abit myself. In you chained AC setup on Venus, if you set the outmost AC to cool from 460 to 310, the 2nd outmost from 310 to 160 and the 3rd cooler to preferred comfy temperature 20-22 or so. They should the all run on 100% efficiency ? The outer cools the waste system to the 2nd, who again cools the waste system of the inner/base. ... But yeah. You would need a lot of those chains in a base with high cubic of atmosphere, if you want something that can change temperature quickly.. And yeah, my furnace heat source is now gone, back to mixing O2 and H2 I guess. Or an array of pipeheaters that only turn on during a storm, with a wind farm ofc.

[@cowsareevil7514]

You only get good efficiency at -50 to 100. Any extra AC for cooling the waste will be operating outside this and will incur the environmental efficiency loss. So it might take 5 AC units to cool the waste from the first one.

[@CrinosAD]

@@cowsareevil7514 Ah, bummer... Forgot about that part...

[@cola98765]

The target temp has nothing to do with efficiency now, only when the machine will turn off. And as someone who always build everything alone, I'm so confused who would be so crazy to use AC to heat a furnace, especially now while you have pipe heaters. If you outgas your ores beforehand the furnace will just not loose it's temp.

[@CrinosAD]

@@cola98765 Using ACs exhaust gasses for hotgas for furnace was a quick and cheap way, and and exploit of the AC units. You would get gas temps in the 14.000 - 19.000 Celcius area. You still have the combustor way, of combusting Volatiles and Oxygen/Nitrous. And ofc they way you mentioned with pipe heaters, but each heater sucks up to 1kw and you need alot of energy to heat up the gasses. (and reheat it while it's being used).

[@cola98765]

@@CrinosAD I always though there was penalty to the high waste temp relative to input so I never really bothered to put that heat to the room just next door where I have the hot-hot furnace gasses, so in my case the setup just got bigger

[@DB-zp9un]

Waiting to see some of these changes!

[@Sasquatchadventures1]

What do you do when the air con has a error code? We wird ours and built it the same as you have and it errors so does the active vent

[@khainestar]

I thought it was just me that couldn't get the things to do any real measure of heating or cooling. I chained 3 together and got a total rise in temperature on Europa of about 10 degrees. Just going back to furnace gas and electric heaters.

[@keyogen]

So setting the extra AC's to -200 won't help the room AC? All the others were set to only 20. Would having a colder heat pipe cool the room faster?

[@cowsareevil7514]

It gets an effiecncy penalty if you are trying to get to a temperature that is too far from the current temperature.

[@ratchet1freak]

@@cowsareevil7514 that's probably why the daisy chain didn't work for you, you tried to have all of them cool down their input to 20°C

[@cola98765]

it's that temp setting is when the AC will turn off, not the temp of output gas on it's own, so setting it lower will not have any effect as long as the out-in loop is much hotter than this.

[@lumirbaca1831]

I like the pedempreture difference at 29:13. But this comment's got a point: Does the recycler-centrifuge->regas->furnace->make-gases->heat-gases->heat-furnace trick work forever or you have to constantly add the Au and Co?

[@BorbJox]

31:39 Your wish has been fulfilled :D

[@fuse98]

Mick, have you had a chance to give the Food Rebalance mod a go with these new changes on either Vulcan or Venus to see if it's still doable? I guess your centrifuge recirculating design for deleting heat is the only way you'd be able to cool your water fast enough to survive with these changes? There have been suggestions flying around on Discord, one that I liked is having a more advanced air conditioner from these ones that will require a significant power source to run, but would give a larger operating efficiency to overcome Venus atmo temperature. Definitely needs to be tweaked a bit more, but it is nice to have the cheese taken out even if it messes with everyone's old designs.

[@cowsareevil7514]

Vulcan should be possible but Venus needs the hydrogen to make the water and you won't be able to make the biomass quick enough for the composter. Either that or you have to mine a crap load of cobalt or mod in the geysers if they still work. A more powerful AC would be a good idea or just increase the power of this one. The old one was good in that if you wanted it to work harder you just had to throw more power at it.

[@12tanuha21]

@@cowsareevil7514 Can't you just buy Hydrogen from a trader until you get Hydrogen self-sufficient?

[@cowsareevil7514]

With the food rebalance you cant grow the plants quick enough to keep feeding the composter. You will never be self-sufficient unless you exploit the composter reset to save biomass or use the vanilla food.

[@barinthus74]

Making Game mechanics make sense, thanks

[@landersrl]

why do I keep dieing? I have a mix of 20% oxy, 2% co2 and the rest N2. I then fill a empty canister for my suit. Then I start dieing, showing lung pic upper right, waist tank is empty, charged battery, everything on such as heat and pressure. what gives?

[@birard0]

You need filter for all gases that in your canister, except oxygen.

[@ashleydstone8623]

thank you sir you've saved my base

[@ts_vexx6883]

Using silver instead of gold is much more efficient in your cheaty furnace setup. The N20 is insane compared to the heat you get out of running H2 + O2. I have been Non-cheaty using silver to heat my furnaces on vulcan for a bit.

[@cowsareevil7514]

I keep forgetting about NOS. Now that the electric furnace is impractical I think Cobalt and silver will be the path to the first batch of steel so you can then make the composter.

[@exe089]

Great testing and a great way to exploid anyway. But you missed one test... What about giving the waste heat to a vakuum? Does this still work? I have to test it

[@samuraidriver4x4]

Thanks for the video. Sad to see it being fixed and now being a broken piece of junk. I do like the chips in the atmospherics, havent played the update yet but I imagine you can write directly to the atmospherics instead of setting it to a pin?

[@McCnutty]

I'm on Venus and put 6 portable aircon units on insulated connectors. Connected them all to an external passive vent. Put wireless batteries in the aircon units and the power transmitter on the roof above. We have a rocket going so I add the cool nitrogen to the room to keep the pressure up to around 100kpa. The room cools to -260 degrees C. Don't know I'f it's a glitch or not but for the moment its working. I can siphon off the cold air to cool a fuel generator, hopefully. Still working on that.

[@cowsareevil7514]

I have heard of that being possible. I suspect it is about as legitimate as the furnace/centrifuge loop. But nicely done, I throw them away at the start of the game and never give them another thought, perhaps I should be a little more open minded.

[@McCnutty]

@@cowsareevil7514 Likewise I used to throw them out. the ones I used before the update would only go as low as -10 then cut out. I made some more, post update, to experiment with cooling a room down, which I could then use to cool the exhaust from an aircon unit, but it kept going down. It might not be a glitch, as the portable unit just vents the heat out to atmos, it doesn't need to be a closed pipe with radiators. So as long as it has a power supply, hence the wireless batteries, they don't stop. Probably bugged but I'm gonna exploit it none the less until it's nerfed or fixed. Love the furnace loop btw. Gonna play with that too.

[@the_ttr]

portable aircon use different code to AC unit. All portables are very unbalanced (gas charger vs gas gen is like 10k times inefficient?) gonna bet they or will be fixed soon, or not and everyone will use this glitch to cool bases :)

[@quilendar1604]

👍 Thx.

[@firstlast9923]

The new AC has been rather disappointing, you only really need it on Vulcan and Venus but for some reason it works the worst in those scenarios. To effectively cool on Vulcan or Venus you effectively have to spam ACs to the point that the reduced power draw is meaningless. The throughput rate of the AC is so high that I can't really think of a good reason why you wouldn't connect the input and output which begs the question why there is throughput to begin with instead of a simple hot and cold side. I don't understand why they added an IC slot to the AC when there's so little you can control about it that it's essentially pointless, you can control whether it's on/off and which side is the cold side, that's it. No longer does the AC cool to an exact temperature or amount, it just cools/heats vaguely in the direction you want it to.

[@firstlast9923]

From my calculations, under optimal conditions the best temperature difference you can get from input to output is a measly 22 degrees. You can't really chain input to output either as it will massively decrease the temperature differential efficiency. So what is the point of the throughput input to output? [Moles per tick] = (750 * 100) / (8.3144 * [Input temp]) [Max joules per tick] = 14000 [Output temp difference] = [Max joules per tick] / ([Moles per tick] * [Input specific heat capacity]) Optimal conditions: [Input temp] = 293.15 [Input specific heat capacity] = 20.4

[@cowsareevil7514]

It hasn't gotten the best reception so I imagine it will get some rebalance very quickly. It is nice that the weird operation has been fixed but is is lacking in power.

[@dan7rex]

@@cowsareevil7514 The devs have said they want to rebalance the new AC's

[@cowsareevil7514]

I see they have already changed the limits for the setting. It can now go up to 999C. Electric furnace is back on the menu.

[@12tanuha21]

You can connect 2 devises outside the AC on the IC slot, like pumps or pipe analyzer. It is not limited to the AC itself. Only problem is the current power of the AC

[@generral87]

you just need the centrifuge for sorting wong molten stuff the recycler isn't needed

[@Pompeij]

355W for an AC is pathetic, as they do the calcs right, there will not be much of a heat transfer.

[@Patrick1985McMahon]

Try buying gas cans from the trader and eject them from the vending machine and watch the fireworks happen.

[@cola98765]

other small things - the height is same as it used to be, it's just the model now reflects that. - I never liked the pipe length changing power of pumps, you call it "boring", I call it "actually making sense" it's like in Factorio the speed of inserter was dependant on length of belt on both sides. - the "this thing draws 10W" bug was always here - using those plants feel like cheating *more* than ACs from before - electrically heated furnaces are still a thing... before I used wall heaters and radiators, but now there are pipe heaters that do the same as shown in video... doing that using ACs feels weird. (my setup uses 20 heaters, but they rarely run as barely anything pulls the heat from it if you outgassed your ores beforehand) In general what you expected ACs to do, what you were using them for was not what they were designed for, nor how they are used irl, and even splitting AC into sub parts would not really change much from how it works now

[@gamerelite3989]

wow ... leave it to mick to break the fixes that rocketwerks did to render AC useless XD and under 24 hours to boot !! hahaha but yeah this will make cooling and heating a bit more of a challenge now on hot/cold planets using electric devices . Might be the way RW wanted to steer people to be using gases with the atmospherics updates to cool/heat bases watching the atmospheric gas mix so you dont blow up the base ... cheers

[@cowsareevil7514]

I am glad they fixed the voodoo machine that it was but it was the glitches that made it really useful.

[@thefudderation444]

Good riddance Glitchconditioner... It was encouraging people to circumvent physics (which is core to the game), and trivialize things that were meant to be challenging.

[@cowsareevil7514]

LOL. Physics, fixed. Chemistry, please hold the line all of our operators are busy.

[@imageingredients8110]

Right. Pay no attention to the turbine generator. Or the filtration unit.

[@comwarrior69]

This infinate gas's from the furnace / recycler / centrifuge was supposed to be fixed two or more years ago... So, why bother recycling gasses when you can just have some gold cycling round? Sounds like a simple base to me... That being said, now that you've put it in a video and waved a big red flag to the bull, i'm sure they will re-fix it again in short order... If they havn't already.

[@cowsareevil7514]

I don't think it will be high priority to fix. It is not something you can accidently use. Like the vacuum room cooling, it is only an exploit for people who choose to use it.

[@comwarrior69]

@@cowsareevil7514 yes, but, you mentioned it, and they like to screw around with some of your builds... That being said, I grossly cheesed the looping furnace exploit back in the day and had about 30 furnaces cycling ores from their outputs to their inputs constantly to gas up my bases... Untill they patched it.......

[@jjones552]

1.21 gigawats

[@fellpower]

Thats nothing worth. The DEVs change the ACs every day....;)

[@TimberStiffy_]

is the efficiency from temp delta or ? looks like delta T, because at least we can stack them in series for AC or furnace pump