Steal These Rules From ShadowDark

[@krim7]

“Make darkness great again!” Ok Sauron 😂

[@ElderGoblinGames]

👁️

[@willmendoza8498]

Great video. The GM section is what I truly love about SD. It’s more than just tables and rules, it’s a philosophical treatise on GMing written concisely and clearly

[@ElderGoblinGames]

Agreed.

[@felipemendoza5581]

Dispense information freely... probably one of the best game advices ever shared

[@felipemendoza5581]

Cool song in the outro though

[@ElderGoblinGames]

It's good advice. Took me way too long to figure that out.

[@reverance_pavane]

This has always been my philosophy. It is an excellent one, but very alien to the Old School Gygacian approach.

[@NemoOhd20]

I agree completely with this. I still have skill checks but the skill checks usually give you not just the information you need to run the adventure, that information should flow freely, but it might give you something special like you recognize the handwriting or the type of ink, you recognize this this as the same sort of trap preferred by whatever band of goblins, or only Imperial Stormtroopers can be this accurate. (While you are at it, look at the 3 clue rule from some other GM sites.) I keep seeing comments about old school gaming being unlike this. Frankly, that is wrong. We rarely used "skill checks". If you looked under the bed or in the closet, you found the secret door there. If you didn't look, there was no skillcheck roll to fix your poor playing. IMO there was more role and less roll then. Old school (like 80s) was more deadly, but it wasn't all instant death traps. People dont realize that most of the modules we see from that time were designed to be either tournament games or like Tomb of Horrors specifically designed to challenge players who had been playing for a decade with power characters who bragged about being invincible. TSR didn't even make modules for years, assuming you'd want to make your own.

[@ElderGoblinGames]

@@NemoOhd20 totally agree. I think that was the intention of the original design when skill checks moved to things like knowledge checks. But I think the sort of video gamification of organized play and the need for a streamlined expedient experience grew into this form of play where some people will only ask, or not even ask and just roll, to get information that way. Rather than interacting with an environment or puzzle or just flat out role-playing, I've played at tables (mostly organized play) where it felt like we were just trying to hit the checklist as quick as possible to get to the end of the module so we could get our XP and move on. It was a really weird sensation for me personally.

[@Akinohotarubi]

It's nothing new in the OSR/NSR/WhateverSR, but having it summarised in such an explicit and concise form truly is a blessing of insight.

[@ElderGoblinGames]

Exactly. All in one book that fits in my backpack and doesn't weigh me down.

[@ToddPutnam]

Great video. Glad to see you didn't cover the same old stuff everybody else covers about SD. I switched my campaign to SD last year during the kickstarter and my players love it. Nobody wants to go back to 5E.

[@ElderGoblinGames]

Thanks. I always strive to have a fresh take, though some things are worth repeating. That's awesome, glad they're living it!

[@freddaniel5099]

Nice video focus on an underappreciated aspect of our hobby. Shadowdark does many thing well. But you already said that! The Burning Wheel is one of the more influential games in my personal GMing journey. Having choices among the mechanics of conflict resolution has been a real eye-opener. Every fight doesn't need to be resolved using the game's most detailed combat system. Choices matter. Cheers!

[@ElderGoblinGames]

I LOVE Burning Wheel. It doesn't get enough coverage. It will definitely be in this series at some point.

[@wingedhussar2909]

Great DM advice for any game. One reason that I became a DM was because I hated how other people where running games where the dice was telling the story instead of the group.

[@tHeInEvItAbLePaRtY]

Man, I think your intro must be enchanted. I was suddenly subscribed before I knew what was happening! Edit: I commented before seeing your outro. Good stuff, my man. I look forward to future videos, especially for ShadowDark if you do more on it. Waiting for my book to come in and I'm excited to see what's on offer!

[@ElderGoblinGames]

Hahaha that's awesome! My siren song lures in another subscriber 😁 There will definitely be more ShadowDark things to come. I love that game and I'm trying to get a West Marches style shadowdark game going right now.

[@Lucern2112]

Exactly !! Same thing happened to me. Totally failed my saving throw. Intro song lured me right in, no defense at all…

[@ElderGoblinGames]

🎶🖖🤷‍♂️🐉🪨

[@Lucern2112]

Bought Shadowdark rules and couple other things. GM screen is Fantastic! Started D&D in 1980. Playing 5e now. Lots of home brew and experience added in. I must say Shadowdark looks VERY promising.

[@ElderGoblinGames]

I hope you enjoy it! It's rare these days to see one book that "has it all" ready to go.

[@SomoneTookMyName]

Very good idea. I have used rules from other games in my D&D campaigns. Blades in the Dark for example. My next game is going to be using the Shadowdark system and I am looking forward to it. However if I run another D&D game I will steal a great deal from Shadowdark.

[@annieberliner6051]

I got some great ideas from this video. Thank you for sharing, I'll probably use some in my next campaign!

[@ElderGoblinGames]

ShadowDark is full of great advice!

[@TakaD20]

Instructions unclear: Got caught trying to steal a book. Told the investigating paladin, that my goblin elder made me do it. Got scolded by him for stereotyping...

[@ElderGoblinGames]

The trick is not getting caught. 😅

[@seanfsmith]

lazer-orxs? we're KRULL (1983) all up in this

[@NemoOhd20]

Love the video and I love Shadowdark so far. Another great game which also happens to be well worth the cost just for its GM section is Index Card RPG.

[@ElderGoblinGames]

💯 love that game

[@coolboy9979]

The series sounds very cool! Though from the title I expected system rules, rather than GM advice (As you said at the end as well). Though I would hope more in depth advice like with telegraphing danger since that can be quite hard. Like with the example given: players, especially if they are higher level, would just scuff at the skulls on the ground and proceed, after all they are the big strong heroes. It can be quite tough to ACTUALLY tell them that there is danger, without breaking the 4th wall I feel like. I think, if anything, its better to telegraph danger together with the information collecting, the 7th "rule" and bonus "rule" should have been put together. Like have the skulls have some specific marks that are unique to a creature and then together with some knowledge they know how strong the beast could be, or have destroyed higher level gear laying around to show that those who fell were big strong heroes as well.

[@Tysto]

Piton is pronounced [PEE-ton]. It's a spike used in mountain climbing, but in D&D it's used to spike doors open or closed. It usually has a ring or hole at the top for a rope.

[@ElderGoblinGames]

Wow, I was way off haha. Thanks.

[@jeffslater5393]

Wow, this is excellent GM advice. Top notch.

[@ElderGoblinGames]

Had to share! ShadowDark is full of good stuff.

[@jrgary6853]

Tales of Argosa, Cheers!

[@ElderGoblinGames]

I hadn't heard of it, but I looked it up and it looks awesome!

[@macoppy6571]

Streal rules from Stravagante!

[@MichaelJHinds]

I played that with my hometown class. They loved it, keeping their character sheet in their pencil case For the rest of the year

[@Knightfall8]

Im strongly considering eliminating all sources of PC infravision from my campaigns to imitate shadowdark. Light spells are fine since I run pre-cantrip rulesets, and the wizard is free to spend slots on light if they want.

[@ElderGoblinGames]

Totally up to you and your group! If you think it's the kind of system where that feels in line then definitely do it! I will say, I tried to do it for 5e, and it was a big let down. You can tell there are just certain expectations with different kinds of systems. And heroic fantasy does not do survivalist well.

[@Uther1313]

As an old school player/DM from 1984 forward, the crappy DM's didn't have any players for long and their campaigns fell apart quickly. So, this idea that the game was more antagonistic back in the day has some truth but it is an oversimplification of an issue that wasn't the biggest problem we faced.

[@ElderGoblinGames]

That's fair, as it wasn't the main topic of the video I kinda brushed over it. But I think it's still a problem even today. I've played in plenty of games where it felt like the GM, if not overtly antagonistic, subtly withheld any potential boons, loot, or shut down creative solutions. In an effort to.. IDK not have their creatures too easily overcome? All that to say, it's a topic worth mentioning, even if in brief. There are plenty of GMs out there who need to hear that they should be fans of their players, not the enemy.

[@MichaelJHinds]

Best rules from Knave 2e, Cairn (free), Basic Fantasy (also free)

[@ElderGoblinGames]

I have physical copies of Knave 1e and 2e and Cairn 1 (still waiting on 2). I will have to grab the free PDF and check out basic fantasy. What do you like about basic fantasy?

[@MichaelJHinds]

@@ElderGoblinGames The biggest draw to BF RPG for me is the communal hobby they share in the forums and in developing modules and supplements. All of their content is a labor of love freely given out to the TTRPG community. I haven’t played yet, but I’ve read through their adventure anthologies and have catalogued them to host a weekly open table that I’d like to start up next month. One feature that, imo, lends to the open table is how the classes advance at different rates, so I’m thinking it’s fine if someone new shows up in six months at level 1 as torch bearer and soaks up that sweet, sweet XP for a few games while they learn the ropes. I also like the idea that you role your stats and then pick your race and class based on minimum and maximum requirements. I will be using the optional rule that you can invert your stat rolls, which means the +/- of each modifier changes sign, because honestly “in a 3d6 down the line” game, you have the same chance to get 3 (-3) as you do an 18 (+3). Initiative is done with a d6, which seems like it’d be easier to call out the initiative number, more so than if you have to go through 20+ numbers without skipping anyone. They’ll say that this allows initiative to be rolled every round, but I like how most of the time someone will get the drop, but statistically sometimes there’ll be simultaneous action. BF RPG calls itself rules-light, but this was a decade before Knave/Cairn/etc, and, yeah, I’m still designing my 3-page DM screen… Eh, I’ll just be making up the DCs anyway!

[@ElderGoblinGames]

That's awesome. Sounds like a really good community around it! Thanks for all the info.

[@andynonimuss6298]

It's the grim art style that really made Shadowdark.

[@ElderGoblinGames]

I love ShadowDarks art. It was a refreshing surprise I wasn't anticipating when I started hearing about the game.

[@Heritage367]

I love your songs so much!

[@ElderGoblinGames]

Thank you! I enjoy making them 😂

[@tubebobwil]

Love the song!!

[@ElderGoblinGames]

Thank you!!!

[@TwinSteel]

Of the list, I’d most like to hear your thoughts on Mausritter

[@12600Grey]

Do a review of that massive old book behind you. Looks a thousand years old!

[@ElderGoblinGames]

Unfortunately, those books are just a facade. To let you behind the curtain a little bit, it's just a fake wall. We do have a real library but I need to move it from our kids room into ours pretty soon haha.

[@12600Grey]

I knew it!! I found a secret passage wall!! 😂 thanks for not making me roll to get an answer, hah! I need to go back and click on the video until it opens…

[@CountryBwoy]

1:55 literally L-ing OL

[@ElderGoblinGames]

Gotta give a good ol WotC jab every now and then.

[@ianeller3047]

Don't steal from Shadowdark -- just play it. It's better.

[@ElderGoblinGames]

In general, yes. But you're missing the greater points. Talking about a game does three things: 1. Brings it to the attention of people who haven't even heard of it. 2. Fosters the good (transferable) ideas and values of that game for people who aren't willing to switch from their preferred system yet. 3. Shows the broader TTRPG community that there is interest in other games (like ShadowDark) and that means they're also worth looking into. I guess this is just going to get copy pasted now. 3rd time.

[@ianeller3047]

@ElderGoblinGames I agree, but still, run Shadowdark for your group. It doesn't matter if they are okd-ass GenXers (my group) or complete newbs" Shadowdark does that one thing we all want these games to do: explain the premise by way of play. If you do that, you hook them. And then you can convince them to play whatever game you prefer.

[@swordsnstones]

nice intro song bro i think you need to do mine too :)

[@swordsnstones]

i borrowed the torch mechanic and shortened it to 30 min real time, but i may lengthen it for the next session

[@swordsnstones]

TRIUMPH? TRIUMPH!! Hell no! TPK all the way !!! ... JK lol

[@ElderGoblinGames]

Hmm I might be able to make that happen. I believe you have my email. Let me know what you have in mind.

[@LordRodri]

Bro you're really funny 🤣

[@ElderGoblinGames]

It's always hard for me to tell if someone's being sarcastic when they say bro lol but if not thank you! I'm glad someone else enjoys my particular brand of humor.

[@PatriceBoivin]

Why not just play ShadowDark then? 😋

[@themaster408]

I know it doesn't matter, but Candyland is worse than your description. There's no dice, you draw a card and you go to that color. So once the player order is determined and the cards shuffled, the winner has been decided.

[@ElderGoblinGames]

Oh wow, that's worse than I remember. Maybe I'm conflating Candyland with some TTRPGs I've played haha.

[@michaelmullenfiddler]

Make Darkness Great Again? Lol. Would MaDGA partisans wear black hats? Lol

[@ElderGoblinGames]

I would totally wear a ShadowDark hat that said "Make Darkness Feared Again" I think that's hilarious

[@red_wullf]

Pee-tawns

[@ElderGoblinGames]

preesh.

[@DorsonKieffer]

...just play Shadowdark.

[@ElderGoblinGames]

In general, yes. But you're missing the greater points. Talking about a game does three things: 1. Brings it to the attention of people who haven't even heard of it. 2. Fosters the good (transferable) ideas and values of that game for people who aren't willing to switch from their preferred system yet. 3. Shows the broader TTRPG community that there is interest in other games (than theirs) and that means they're also worth looking into.

[@VengerSatanis]

Steal from Advanced Crimson Dragon Slayer, and then run the CHA'ALT campaign!

[@ElderGoblinGames]

I'm not familiar with either. I'll have to look into them.

[@chrisblackgb]

Have a look at Dragonbane 😊

[@ElderGoblinGames]

Definitely will. It's among my favorite games, so it will be getting a spotlight for one reason or another 😁

[@emergentc5398]

Great video- burn that shirt.

[@ElderGoblinGames]

??? Not a fan of MCDM?

[@emergentc5398]

@@ElderGoblinGames Not at all, I almost quit this channel from the thumbnail, but figured I'd give you a fair chance. I tend to 'don't show me this channel again" anyone that promotes 5e products. Its nothing personal, just business: I don't have time for ignorant or willful association with that corporate entity. That said, I love Shadowdark! And understand a lot of 5e players make a bulk of its playerbase. Which is great!

[@emergentc5398]

@@ElderGoblinGames Also I love your songs, lol--so catchy and classic.

[@ElderGoblinGames]

@@emergentc5398 you do know that MCDM is a company making it's own TTRPG in direct opposition of D&D (Draw Steel) and that they pivoted fully from a company who was making 5e content to stopping all production on future products (with stuff currently on the print line) affiliated with said company because of the OGL? I don't know anyone who's "Sticking it harder to the man" than MCDM. Also, I've built my entire brand on covering anything but D&D. It would be pretty silly to "quit" a channel because of a t-shirt, but to each their own

[@emergentc5398]

@@ElderGoblinGames i think MCDM is a hack and a grifter, so I find anyone who doesnt pretty silly--but its nothing personal, I just value my time. Like I said, Ive found your content charming in the 2 videos I've seen, but to each their own.

[@TwinSteel]

🥳🫂👍🏿 Love a good house rule - I’m on a quest to collect every house rule on KZbin and beyond, so this is going on the playlist: #2,216

[@ElderGoblinGames]

That's a lot of house rules!

[@TwinSteel]

@@ElderGoblinGames quest is going well 😄