Stealth: A Dying Genre

Would you say Stealth is a dying genre? After a month of editing I've finally got this project finished. I hope everyone enjoys the video and remember that this is just my opinion. Leave any
feedback in the comments and I'd like to hear what you think too. I want to thank my Twitter followers for giving me the moral support to keep working on this project! I will put up a Twitter poll for the next video so be on the lookout for that in the future!
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[@ShadowBroker77]

"Don't be a Jack of all trades. Be a master of one." FINALLY SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS

[@thejumbokomodo6405]

Stealth is my favourite genre of games, they’re so satisfying and rewarding!

[@BloodCell47]

Stealth is #1 in my book as well. You are right, there is nothing quite like completing a mission and never being seen by the enemy.

[@rokmare]

The problem is today's gamers is so used to empowerment it's the same reason real survival horror died, why go thru all that trouble when you can gun down everything and feel empowered.

[@Shamoneee]

outlast was/is popular i think? You could only hide and run away from the monsters

[@alexbenge1605]

This is heartbreaking especially when you realize that mostly all the stealth series are coming to a close such as Metal Gear. ( What makes it even more heartbreaking is how Sam fisher says "So it's only me" in that Wildlands mission).

[@BloodCell47]

Yeah it seems like triple A stealth is not going to be a thing anymore. The indie games will tide us over but I would like to see heavy budget games focus on stealth in the future. Our only hope now is Ubisoft showing us their newest Splinter Cell title. (If they are even working on one) Thanks for watching!

[@klarnorbert]

@@BloodCell47 Did you play Death Stranding? It's not 100% stealth game, but it's close and made by Kojima.

[@DARE0451]

So Its Only Me... - Sam Fisher

[@BloodCell47]

One of the saddest quotes of recent times. Hopefully the newest Splinter Cell delivers.

[@jackdaniel5229]

Are we even sure he's still around?

[@SS-vs4lo]

Sadly it's true. Gabe from syphon filter - gone. Snake from mgs - gone. Garrett from thief - gone. I won't even count thief 2014 to be a thief game. It's really only Sam and agent 47

[@SS-vs4lo]

@@BloodCell47 I'm surprised you didn't mentioned thief games. Such a great game with great story and a unique storytelling. Especially the metal age

[@sensitivebeats5518]

Also a big mistake in the hitman franchise was, to "drop" Jesper Kyd. He was the guy, who made the atmosphere in the hitman games, with his soundtracks! He worked a bit in Chaos Theory, too. And also in Assassin's Creed.

[@BloodCell47]

Yeah Jasper Kyd's music really adds an extra layer of greatness. I hope that in the future he will be picked up for Hitman again.

[@StealthDocs]

Interesting thoughts on three major franchises of stealth. It's odd that you never define what makes a 'stealth game', but seem to draw upon the Metal Gear, Splinter Cell and Hitman franchises for both the major components AND the symptoms of a 'dying' genre. Brushing aside the modern indie stealth games as if they don't have anything of relevance to offer you is fine, but given that the Hitman series started out as an indie game back in the early 2000s (and a demonstrably divisive, unintuitive one at that) you might want to reconsider your position. There's a lot of good stuff out there you'll be missing out on. Taken holistically, Stealth Games haven't disappeared, but they are changing. I guess it's up to all of us whether we find value in what modern stealth-based gaming has to offer, or go looking for our kicks elsewhere. I think a full video response may be in order here, as you've expressed some ideas that are common to a lot of early-modern stealth game enthusiasts who feel as if the genre has left them behind, and I'm keen to explore that through my own work. I'll be in touch. :) EDIT: I should also mention, this was a well-made video. Believe me when I say I appreciate the hours that go into editing something of this quality! I might disagree with a few of your opinions, but we'll get into that another time. Subbed. Hope to see more thoughtful content on your channel!

[@BloodCell47]

I pick those 3 franchises just because they were my favorite growing up and I still have a soft spot for them today. Even if their mechanics are evolving in a way that I feel is naturally making pure stealth disappear slowly. Also when I point to my favorite 3 for what made stealth great and what is killing stealth today, I meant that the PS2 era of those franchises did it right vs their current gen versions. I should've articulated that in the video better. Obviously it's most likely financial suicide for a dev to make a pure stealth game today but I'm just being hopeful. In the video I mentioned that I actually like those few indies that I talked about. I've also played a handful more, Echo, Stealth Inc, Shadwen, Aragami and Volume (Gonna try Mark of the Ninja soon too) I would never dismiss the indies but my point in the video was that I wanted to see more AAA stealth since it's practically a once a year occurrence. Yes they are definitely adapting to the modern gamer. My mention of the Splinter Cell Blacklist sales were to try and showcase how making it a half and half game doesn't mean that this adaptation is a good thing (MGSV TPP is the only anomaly) Also even though I'm not the happiest with this evolution I still play the games regardless. I actually obtained the platinum trophy for Blacklist, Ground Zeores & The Phantom Pain. I'm too much of a sucker for stealth gameplay to ignore them. It would be awesome to see a video response! I will have to check out your channel when I get some free time. I'm all for a good debate, disagreeing doesn't make us enemies. Thanks so much for taking the time to watch and comment! I hope that my future critical opinion pieces will live up to the sub!

[@4i4kov]

None of the modern AAA games really focus on stealth though (except maybe Hitman). It's like saying Far Cry 3 is an RPG because it has XP and upgrades. Not every game has a light and noise meter, adjustable walking speed, consistent AI when it comes to sneaking around, the ability to disguise as someone or something else or the opportunity to make a kill look like an accident. I guess the way to define them would be to compare them to other games and determine what the focus of their mechanics is. How good would Chaos Theory be as a third-person shooter? How good would Max Payne be as a stealth game?

[@kingmaplesyrup]

"So it's only me" -Sam Fisher One day... There will be no one.

[@Mulcam29]

This hits me hard.....

[@Jombo56]

I just bought and played Splinter Cell : Chaos Theory last summer. SC:CT is legitimately the greatest and most fun stealth game I have ever played.

[@BloodCell47]

It's so good to hear of someone discovering SC:CT for the first time. That game is in my top 3 favorite stealth games of all time. Perfect blend of stealth and funny character dialogue. Glad you enjoyed playing it dude.

[@rosodudersd260]

The stealth genre is just the latest (?) casualty in the progressive march downward towards casualization, homogenization, and removal of challenge and depth from gameplay to sell to the widest market audience. It happened to jRPGs as you noted, cRPGs, and the FPS genres in the mid 2000s, among others (for anyone who doesn't think the FPS genre has fallen off a cliff, go study the level, encounter, and enemy design from the golden age of FPS e.g. Doom/Quake/Duke Nukem 3D/Half-Life, compare with modern scripted health regenerating corridor shooting tripe, and come back to me). For whatever reason, the stealth genre managed to keep going relatively strong since its 3D inception in 1998 with Tenchu and MGS1 for the PlayStation and Thief: the Dark Project for the PC into the next decade. But you're right that sales are down, titles are sparse, and stealth games aren't really stealth games anymore. I want to push back against the notion expressed in the video and the comments discussion that open-ended gameplay which gives the player additional defensive or even aggressive options is necessarily a bad thing for stealth games. I happen to agree it's a major problem in the new Deus Ex and Dishonored games, but that's due to a very real issue with those particular titles: they aren't willing to force you to choose between stealth and combat playstyles with their RPG systems. In the original Deus Ex, your character couldn't hit the broad side of a barn and would do very little damage with weapons if you had not invested into their respective skills. You might have to forgo these skills altogether if you wanted to level up lockpicking, hacking, melee for stealth takedowns, and so on. Furthermore, each augmentation was a binary choice, so if you opted for stealth augmentations like cloaking, radar transparency, the spy drone, x-ray vision, and silent running, you would actually be PERMANENTLY locked out of obtaining the associated combat augmentations like ballistic protection, the aggressive defense system, weapon targeting, and speed enhancement. You could mix and match some of these upgrades, but that would make you neither optimized for stealth nor for combat (though still a viable playstyle). Thus it is a stealth game similar to Thief with one set of upgrades, and a tactical shooter like a proto-Crysis with another (I will grant, however, that this split focus meant that neither side was as fleshed out as compared to those respective games). The new Deus Ex and Dishonored games have failed in this regard, allowing any character build to easily go on a rampage when spotted. Your character is accurate with weapons and capable in CQC from the getgo, is already quick and silent without specialization, and the upgrades aren't forced binary choices but rather a set of upgrade trees that you can nearly or fully max out by the end of the game and which grant absurdly powerful abilities that break any tension in stealth. Is this inherently an issue with the ability to go loud? No, it's that if they actually made it difficult to go loud without character investment, players would drop the game and go play something simpler, so they had to make it a power fantasy. That's the factor that's antithetical to stealth games, and probably why we're seeing the genre fall to the wayside; a player power fantasy. I don't think it's all about punishment per se, though. You don't have to force a restart when the player is spotted. The core gameplay loop of stealth games involves not only formulating a plan for slipping by unnoticed, but also for getting out of danger when this plan goes off the rails. This is why your character doesn't immediately explode when you're spotted (also because it would break suspension of disbelief), but rather enemies go on alert and try to apprehend you. If the player's best or only response is to fight back in direct combat, I agree it's not a great stealth game, but that doesn't mean there should be a hard fail state for mistakes -- arguably the fun of a stealth game is in the middle between safety and danger, otherwise most of the game is spent waiting and not interacting with the game. In something like Thief, the space between being totally safe and totally screwed is stretched wide open (see the 2002 GDC talk with Warren Spector and Doug Church for more on this). You're never completely unseen and unheard, but you can also hear the AI telegraph their position and various stages of awareness from far away. You'd hear their footsteps coming down the hall and you'd have to quickly decide if you stand and fight (last resort), try to distract them with a noisemaker, or throw a flash bomb and run and hide, potentially finding yourself in an unknown part of the level with new dangers. It's not played as a static strategy game where you perfectly time moves from cover to cover, but as a dynamic game where you have to react in each moment to the threats you perceive. Your basic point is absolutely correct -- that in most modern "stealth" games, throwing a few extra mooks at you for you to instantly headshot doesn't work to provide meaningful punishment, and that the root cause is an overpowered player character for whom direct confrontation is always an (easy) option. I just want to emphasize that softer intermediate fail states are actually a good thing and can actually increase the tension, provided that they do actually pose a threat to the player and force them to think on their feet (this is also one reason I dislike quicksaves, as they encourage players to view minor mistakes as hard fail states which prompt a reload, thus negating much of the tension and fun that the devs worked to create with the gameplay systems). I hope I didn't come across as overly critical here, I just wanted to offer my perspective as a fellow fan of the stealth genre from another genetic line, so to speak (that being Immersive Sims like Thief/Deus Ex). I must admit that I haven't played many of the other classic titles like Tenchu, MGS, or Hitman, so there are certainly facets of the genre of which I am ignorant. Overall I enjoyed the video, and appreciate the time it must have taken to edit it all together and make it flow so nicely. I especially respect any gamer who's paying attention to the decline in quality and standards in their neck of the woods and who's willing to make the effort to shine a light on it. Sometimes I feel like the gaming community at large is a frog who doesn't notice the water temperature is rising to a boiling point.

[@BloodCell47]

So sorry for such a late reply, I must admit that the length of the comment had me wondering how to properly reply lol. I didn't want to just leave a short crappy response. I am forever grateful that you took the time to watch the video and deliver such an elaborate comment. I do agree that stealth is basically the next in line for the trend that hit jRPGs and FPS games in the past. It's almost like history repeating itself, and when I saw the Splinter Cell/Ghost Recon crossover I was revitalized in thinking that Stealth was going to have a comeback like Resident Evil 7 did for Horror. Even knowing the next Splinter Cell is in the works, it being absent from E3 dampened my hopes. I can understand your point that it isn't an outright bad thing. I didn't even know about how Deus Ex used to work in the sense that it permanently locked players out of certain upgrade paths. I actually really like that idea. But yes, in today's era casual gamers will not even give a game a chance if it isn't a power fantasy. I hear so many casual gamers state that all they want to do is come home from work, sit down on their couch, jump into a quick (key word being "quick") game of call of duty, then go to sleep. The casual gamer's lack of patience or desire to invest themselves in an adventure is really damaging the market in my opinion but there is literally nothing I can do about that. You make great points in your third paragraph too about hard fail states ruining possible tension. I will say that while Splinter Cell Blacklist has a VERY forgiving alert state on lower difficulties, changing it to Perfectionist is the diamond in the rough. I actually attempted to make the leader boards for Blacklist on certain levels and in order to reach the top 10 you need to do it on Perfectionist. This turned out to be some of the most pulse pounding stealth action I've ever played (granted I died a million times trying to figure out the perfect speed run route but still) The guards were fast to spot you and you had to move and think at lightning speeds to keep up, it was quite the challenge. Cranking up the difficulty made those guards an actual threat. The problem is that if they made the normal difficulty as pulse pounding as Perfectionist it would instantly turn away the casual market that we so desperately need. I'm hoping some developer out there will be able to find that sweet spot to please both audiences. I just want to thank you again for leaving such an in depth comment. It's funny because I missed the boat on the early Thief and Deus Ex games (I did play the latest Thief and Deus Ex HR & MD, loved them all because I played them stealth). The video took me a couple of months to put together actually, I would write the script at work with voice to text and then try to piece it together at home. Then the editing of background music and videos/images took another huge chunk of time but in the end I like what I was able to deliver. I come across so many oblivious gamers in my social circle that it physically hurts. Hopefully this video will continue to entertain and reveal a point of view that casuals don't really know about within their hobby.

[@impliqued1910]

5 years late but i look at today's games like helldivers 2 and i kinda wish there was a stealth option. I somewhat agree about what you said around the end, games can have action but it shouldn't be the main focus. It's hard to get the perfect stealth game because stealth can be so many things, it can be a way to get closer, it can be the way to ghost through a facility, but i can also be about getting the best advantage for an ambush. Those games would have benefitted from a stealth focus, but i still don't think you should entirely deny the fact that having violence is possible in some scenarios. In the end, i want to be a bad ass infiltrator, yes i may not have an assault rifle, or the biggest muscle out there, but i'm a clever character that's quick thinking, i could probably take out a few guys or try to lose them. What i want is that when the mood is right, when stuff goes down, i have something to do.

[@Whiskey0880]

This is a great video bud, i love stealth games, first one i ever played was tenchu, then i played metal gear and instantly fell in love with the franchise. Thief is another great stealth game. I've playing sekiro recently and i love the tenchu like stealth approach in it.

[@cookieface80]

There was Peace Walker in between MGS 4 and 5, it's a mainline game and it was ported to consoles.

[@Myyraman]

They should make a stealth game which gives you the option to gun everybody but from 3 alerts it’s game over! (Splinter cell & pandora tomorrow style).

[@gregoryhype8228]

Stealth, A Dying Genre: good, noone will miss that shit

[@whyleo-]

wrong.

[@Aurora-bv1ys]

yapping worse than 6 barbers

[@UthersonL]

So AAA stealth is now reduced to all the open-world action adventure whistling bushes that guards so love to investigate.

[@liquidacid2]

Awesome work on this, definitely looks like a lot of work but I really enjoyed this video, keep it coming man!

[@BloodCell47]

Thanks my dude! I'm giving myself a break before I start working on the next heavy project lol.

[@faismasterx]

The stealth game genre isn't fading slowly into obscurity, it's being stealthy to go unnoticed and strike from the shadows later.

[@jaybands6145]

Favorite stealth game: Assassins Creed Unity. The way you can get a group of friends who love stealth as much as you and go out and do missions with your friends all stealthy and use strategy. So many missions. So many things do do. It was incredibly fun

[@mahzamune]

Dude amazing video. Great points and presentation is fantastic.

[@rorokub]

Really cool. As a stealth fan, I agree so very much with you. Have you tried Mark of the Ninja? Best stealth of these last years in my opinion.

[@BloodCell47]

We stealth fans have to stick together. I actually haven't tried that game but I will have to look it up and give it a try!

[@rorokub]

Definitely do. It's one of the few games that I worked my ass off to get 100% achievements and finish full ghost. It's by the guys who did Invisible Inc., actually. It was their previous game (and much better in my opinion). I hope we get more "real" stealth games in the future, but yeah, like you said, most people mistake them for regular action games and complain when they get caught and killed.

[@FraserSouris]

Dude, I think you'll love it

[@BloodCell47]

Yeah I know that real stealth is unpopular but I still want there to be games that make it their focus. It's unfortunate that so many people just want action and give up on games that punish you for failing stealth. I'm still cheering for stealth regardless lol.

[@BloodCell47]

I'm always willing to try all games and I'm betting I'll get into this one for sure.

[@vwyd]

This video is so underrated

[@BloodCell47]

Thanks for watching!

[@vijaybalakrishnan7550]

Bro, let me start off by saying I loved the video, and I'm watching it in 2020 because I love stealth. But in my opinion, the reason there is a way out from stealth in the newer games these days is because people don't have the patience anymore!!

[@beary-boo3223]

Very good video. The little jokes made me laugh but I REALLY liked the point near the end about fail states. I like it when you have a few tools to try to get out of a situation but games like MGSV just take it too far. Great editing and sound and everything, man. Worth the work.

[@BloodCell47]

Yeah the fail states need to be handled differently going forward. But I feel the reason they give the player so many options is because of fear. Fear that if the player ends up dying over and over they will spread the word that the game sucks and tell their friends not to get it. Therefore lowering sales and damaging the game so I feel devs fear that domino effect. Thanks for watching and I'm glad you liked it!

[@AJNguyenYT]

I don't know why you don't mention the Deus Ex, Styx & Dishonored series.

[@BloodCell47]

Styx isn't AAA and I didn't count Deus Ex & Dishonored because they are half & half games. With how easy it is to play loud and lethal in those games they kinda got knocked off my list. People would most likely choose to go loud since it's the path of least resistance. They have no reason to take 20 minutes to sneak through a building if they can just kill their way through it in 5. But even if I did choose to add those games to the list, counting from 2011 we have, Deus Ex HR, Dishonored 1, Splinter Cell Blacklist, MGSV Ground Zeroes, Styx Master of Shadows, MGSV The Phantom Pain, Hitman 2016, Deus Ex MD, Dishonored 2 and Styx Shards of Darkness. This brings our grand total of stealth games to 10, in 7 years we've only received 10 AAA stealth games. That is not a good enough number in my opinion. Thanks for watching man!

[@4i4kov]

@@BloodCell47 Not really. If you start counting those you have to add almost every AAA game released nowadays since most of them have optional stealth. That's your Tomb Raiders', Wolfensteins, Shadows of Middle-Earth, most Ubisoft games, etc. I really do miss games that focused on stealth though.

[@Tito53084]

I'm gonna try to save the stealth genre. I'm a young game designer, just let me few years to improve my self ! Sorry but i will keep you waiting Boss :)

[@johndthackray]

Smashing video dude. You mentioned a few indie stealth games like The Swindle in the video, I was wondering if you had any recommendations in that department. Anyway thanks for the video it was great.

[@BloodCell47]

Thanks so much for taking the time to watch and comment! My personal favorite indie stealth game is Echo. But not just because it's a stealth game but the allure of the mystery behind it grabs my attention. People in these comments seem to love Mark of the Ninja and Styx too, while I haven't tried them I would trust their recommendations. I don't consider Dishonored as indie but it's not exactly AAA in my book and even though it can easily be played as an action game, forcing yourself to play stealth makes that game fun too.

[@swir1man423]

I absolutely love this video although im sad that I didn’t hear dishonoured mentioned as it was what got me into the stealth genre. Regardless amazing video my dude, totally underrated.

[@MrJohnGrey]

I love stealth games, thank you! You got a new follower! Your quality is great!

[@agt_pendergast8899]

Got here late, but this echo's a lot of the feelings I've had over the genre. Typically, I like my action games fast and fun, and my stealth games slow and boring (in light of a better term). I remember the early days of playing Metal Gear and hiding in a box, feeling real tension as a guard walked a little too close for comfort. The times I go loud in Splinter Cell felt more like a calculated risk. In the more recent releases, it feels like the loud route is less of a punishment and more of an annoyance. In some cases, it feels like the more efficient route. Hitman could stand to be a little more punishing, but I think it has the right idea. With 2 or more targets, if you go loud with one the other(s) can potentially escape.

[@jeremiahgrayest]

I think the reason why Blacklist undersold was because 1. It was overshadowed by GTAV 2. The marketing was weak (plus no Micheal Ironside) 3. Released in 2013, but not on Next-gen

[@rogueone3267]

Excellent my man! Not my favorite genre but I totally agree with everything you said. Great work! New sub. Cheers mate!

[@chellari]

I love this video so much!! I love hearing what you have to say about stealth games. I agree with everything you said too, especially about how they've given us ways to just Rambo out of every stealth situation that goes awry! I hope the developers of AAA stealth games see this video and make the necessary changes to make the games about true stealth once more. That would be awesome! Please make another video like this in the future! :D

[@Enzz_]

To be fair, I think you may be biased. LOL

[@chellari]

I can see why you might think that lol but nah, I don't think I'm biased at all. As a gamer myself, I enjoy stealth games very much and can recognize what has become of the stealth genre over the years. It was Splinter Cell and the Metal Gear Solid franchise that made me love stealth games. So as a stealth fan myself, albeit not as hardcore as Chris lol, I appreciate what Chris has to share and how informative he is about the topic. Besides, the video itself is very well put together and interesting. So if I'm perfectly honest, I would love this video whether I'm dating the creator or not lol

[@Enzz_]

I know, I was being factitious. LOL. This video was indeed very well done.

[@BloodCell47]

Thanks to your support babe I was able to finally complete this video. I will have to make more down the road for sure.

[@SuperSoldierADHD]

I came back to this video after playing Ghost Recon Breakpoint on immersive mode. after doing the Echelon missions, I couldn't help but miss the Splinter Cell franchise. Even though there is "stealth" in the game, it was just missing so much. shooting out the lights did nothing, climbing on ledges was non existent, I was able to mod down *almost* everyone. But it wasn't the same. I want a good triple A stealth game so bad.

[@topspree4288]

Hey at 9:55 what is that location/building in metal gear solid v? I have played the game many times and have never seen that or something like that building before.

[@BloodCell47]

That's the second story of the main building at Nova Braga Airport in Africa. Thanks for checking out the video ✌

[@topspree4288]

@@BloodCell47 Thank you so much and no problem thank you for responding!

[@tastycannoli3077]

Awesome video! I 100% agree with the points you made. I wanted to ask you, do you think Ubisoft will finally announce a new Splinter Cell game at this year's E3? Do you think it will be Blacklist 2.0 or will they bring the game back to its stealth roots?

[@BloodCell47]

If they don't show some footage of a new Splinter Cell this E3 I'm gonna flip a table (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ Unfortunately I feel like it'll be Blacklist 2.0 but I am not giving up hope for them wising up after Blacklist's sales were under what they wanted and shifting the gameplay back to their roots because of it. Thanks so much for watching!

[@bencarlson4300]

I think it’s interesting how critical some Splinter Cell fans are of Blacklist when it’s essentially the last time Ubisoft even attempted to make stealth the primary mechanic. Everything since has been action

[@stealthkillz3114]

Like many people here, I love the stealth genre. I've explored many genres. RPG, Fighting, Horror, Racing, Action and so many more. But few are my genuine favorites and have my heart. One of those few are Stealth games. Being great-good at stealth is a art. Stealth is a superpower. Look at Batman. Look at any of the Snakes. I don't need superhuman abilities to defeat superhumans. I just need good stealth. OH AND YESS I HATE THAT MEME. "Nobody will notice if there is noone to notice". Those people just suck at stealth and can't take it. There is a proper way to play Dark Souls and there is a proper way to play Splinter Cell and any Stealth Game.

[@BloodCell47]

Yeah I'm like you, I've played every genre on the board but stealth is the one that stands out. People don't like the trial and error process of getting a mission just right, but I love that stuff. That meme is so annoying lol. Exactly, there is a proper way to play every genre, people need to get buckle down and play stealth correctly too 👍

[@ge0688]

This effing amazing dude. Hope this get like a couple k views

[@XxDyneXxFreeEnergyx]

Platformers perished Stealth perished The list goes on

[@rafael471992]

I feel your pain bro. Gonna replay Chaos Theory once again and hope for the best for the new game. Although I find it kinda hard for Ubi to tone down the mass appeal gung-ho action of Blacklist by a lot.

[@BloodCell47]

Yup I have a feeling that they won't be changing the Blacklist style in the next one unfortunately. They want money and they know pure stealth doesn't sell. Thanks for watching dude!

[@bencarlson4300]

Blacklist at least rewarded stealth unlike modern AC, Ghost Recon, and Far Cry that are just generic action/shooters at this point.

[@dexetex5846]

Most triple a stealth games are action games with optional stealth mechanics, like last of us and ghost of tsushima

[@nighthound6404]

Metal Gear Solid 3 is my favorite game in the series. You can only kill two enemies non-stealthily before having to retreat into the shadows on the higher difficulty levels. Also, steath games should have difficulty levels and higher punishments for each difficulty level.

[@adamkrzeslak4326]

For Me one of the biggest offenders was Dishonored (a game which I really like btw) a stealth game which always wants you to be sneaky but punishes you for being lethal and also gives you tons of cool lethal/combat tools and overall makes combat better than stealth and just expects you to not use all of it

[@patcho7518]

Mandaloregaming critiqued this a bit in his thief reveiw - in thief you hide from enemies because they can easily overpower you. In dishonored you hide from the enemies because you can easily overpower them.

[@Myyraman]

Man I’m happy I have the golden age of stealth games still majorly unplayed!

[@youn00ber]

This was a fantastic video. Thanks Reddit!

[@BloodCell47]

You found my video through Reddit??? But thank you so much for watching dude and I'm glad you enjoyed it.

[@TheMee147]

BloodCell47 yes, in the stealthgames subreddit s/o posted this. Good video, man ^^

[@BloodCell47]

Ahhhhh awesome! Thanks for watching!

[@livingcorpse5664]

Because people have become impatient. Things they'd normally have to wait for in the past they get instantly thanks to the internet. They want instant gratification.

[@limin60]

We need to suport this genre

[@creaturefeet3036]

This video was fantastic! I hope to see more like it.

[@alejandrocamposmarcos2141]

Translated with google translator. It is a very good video and it remains valid even today, I mostly agree with all the points and I like that it is not intended to eliminate direct combat from stealth games, if it does not increase the punishment for failing. Without hermago I do not agree with limiting the action sequences to specific and controlled moments, not that I would not want it to exist or that I see less where I agree. If not the fact that except for those exceptions there is no option to fight. Even in the most harcore games of the genre, such as the first splinter cell, there was the option to defend yourself in case of being caught to give the player a window to be able to flee and try again without going through the gamer over window. A novice player will be caught and die, an expert will be caught but will hide and the veteran player will never be caught. Stealth games are systems where through failure and error you become dominators and learn how to play with the environment and the enemy AI. Removing combat from stealth sessions or intentionally creating bad combat design would leave us with the same problem. Let's not forget that souls rewards each failure with a reward equal to punishment, fooling the player and minimizing the time to try again and the action mechanics fulfill that function in stealth games, as I have heard about stealth games. to have "pleasant but not efficient" combats.

[@rainbowsweater]

The fact that the "Punishment" system is not appreciated by the wider audience (a bunch of 9-year-olds) is shaping the future of such interesting genera of videogames is sad to watch. Most of the popular games now are basically pay to win multiplayer. Hitman is my favorite among this and what I love is the interesting planning, patience, and timing required by these games. There is a guided mode for casuals too. I hope that our beloved genera stay forever without bringing changes to the core mechanics.

[@kaizer087]

Even though I am a civilian, I see it like a military operation and a group. Yes you have your army types, the fps genre, for the main force, but you also need your intel first before you crackdown on the mission, hence the stealth genre. When these games about war and battles come out, as I once was a young kid looking at it from the outside in, I always expected there to be stealth games and the fps shooters. Now am kinda sad that the stealth genre is slowly becoming a thing of the past.

[@jedyt]

Great vid my guy, hope you gain some fame sooner or later.

[@mijaco999]

I like black life for the fast stealth. Always sneaking and creeping up to an inch behind someone to take them out gets slow. I like that you can run up to them, have them technically detect you, but kill them before they raise an alarm to anyone else or even run away or get a shot off, and it still count as a stealth kill, as it is.

[@thedahaka25]

what a good video, just got recommended to me, since I've been looking for more "hardcore" stealth games.

[@LegendaryAWESOME]

You will love Styx: Shards of Darkness, it priorities stealth because the only thing you can do when spotted is either run and hide or face the enemies with terrible combat, it reminds me a lot of The old splinter cell games (although Styx stealth isn't that deep in comparison) I really just want more people to play it as very few people have played it or even heard of it

[@yell50]

Running around shooting at anything with a face on it is exciting for about 5 mins. I long for the return of the real stealth games, to me they give a sense of achievement .

[@MSantosMusic]

Thank you for this video!

[@BloodCell47]

Thank you for watching it!

[@intimaterevolution]

THICCCCC. Lmfao. Quality video and I am right there with you man. My background, I am a splinter cell fan to the core. I played that before metal gear sons. Which is weird. But splinter cell made me fall in love with the genre. Now, back to the video. I was one that did play MGSV half way thru loud. Not loud but i stealthy shot people in the head. I said outloud "this is not fun". I restarted the game and only used NONLETHAL WEAPONS the whole time and my play style brought back the splinter cell days for me. Cuz the enemies wake back up. I really enjoyed the game after i committed to non-Rambo style. I we need the whole package. Die hard fans will pay the 70bucks or 80bucks for a quality fucking game from the big names. i would drop 80 on splinter cell knowing its stealth and no bullshit. Long convos with lambert about real shit. Getting the drop on a dumb. Real infiltration. The predator style was cool, but try playing the game WITHOUT that style....YOU CANT PLAY BLACKLIST WITHOUT THE RAMBO MODE. There wasnt any pride playing it. It was just mission running for points. Ugh it was....i tolerated. I dont wanna say it was garbage. I tolerated the game and liked the fast movements so i stuck with it. The genre does need to get back to its roots. SnakeEater was my favorite too. Real stealth and had to change camos and eat and blend in. Couldn't run up on nobody. Sure u could blast your way out but even your friends would be like "the fuck are u doing"and take the controller and show u how to not get caught in that same area. The genre has lost its way. I don't know what they will do. But chasing these loot crate-ing, rambo styles is the ideal way to get out of the slump. Hitman was a failure partly because they released an unfinished game with no set dates. I say all this to say, you are completely right. No objections. The genre needs to get its shit together. And i REFUSE to touch Metal Gear survive. I got all the other metal gears. Played each one twice thru. I will not touch survive because they are doing some other shit. Just no.

[@BloodCell47]

Can't go wrong with MGS2 Snake thiccness. Yup my intro to stealth was MGS1 but Splinter Cell Chaos Theory really revealed how much more perfected the system could be. You're one of the few that decided to go with non-lethal stealth in MGSV, unfortunately a lot of people just play the way that's easiest (running and gunning). If there is a pure stealth game released by one of the big names, I'm sad to say that I bet it won't do well in terms of sales. Unless it's a half and half game like MGSV (boooo). And Blacklist is pretty tough to play pure non-lethal or ghost due to the AI's faster moments and detection speed, the game is kinda made that way to compensate for Sam's newfound speed and agility. I tolerated it too but it wasn't what I wanted it to be. MGS3 is a great example of stealth done right, it has action options but they are so underwhelming that it naturally makes you want to play stealth instead. Yeah a lot of people hated the episodic release of the new Hitman but another reason why Square Enix called it a failure is because they needed an unreal number of copies sold to make a profit on the game's development. Thanks so much for checking out my video dude and yeah I can't bring myself to touch MG Survive, I even refused to try the free demo lol.

[@nemanjamilosevic1370]

10:20 exactly what im saying all the time.For some reason people think it is bad to replay a mission when you get csught.I don't know why would stealth games be much different from other genres.

[@chozochiefxiii3298]

It happened to arcade style games first. Then rpgs Then platformers Extreme sports/racing Then true fps games Steath game And now true action games Every major genre is dying so that free to play games/3rd person action adventure games/open world games are all that come out of the aaa industry.

[@rocketassistedgoat1079]

I love stealth, but I loathe "insta-fail" game design perhaps even more than I do time-limits; which is what these old-school stealth games all have in common. My style of play-if the game lets me, is basically "stealth Rambo". Sneak inside an enemy camp, go loud with AKs and grenades-using cover to stay alive during tense CQC (stealth and cover mechanics are just as important as each other to my mind, I'm so glad the industry's moving towards "soft" cover over "hard" [sticky], though free-lean will always be my favourite), then using stealth again to sneak away before I get overwhelmed. Then basically repeat the process, using stealth to flank-'till everyone's dead. Guerilla tactics, in short. Games that excel at letting you play like this, tend to be open-worlds like Far Cry. And they all end up following the "Farcry Blueprint", because, well; what other way is there?? You can tweak the formula, but I really don't think you can radically change it. There are a few insta-fail missions in Wildlands, and honestly, they're so horrible; I'd be surprised if Ubisoft brings them back. Stealth games had to evolve to stay alive, in much the same way that SCHMUPS from yesteryear like R-Type on SNES, would force you to restart the entire level if you died. That kind of difficulty, is never coming back; and it's a blessing. Also, I hate being overpowered in games; stealth can so often be abused so that it rivals that most cowardly and least skillful of all shooter playstyles; sniping. If ever a weapon were OP; sniper rifles are it. I go loud and mix that up with stealth for the same reason I forbid myself from reloading 'till my gun's dry [that's what a sidearm or secondary's for]; mostly to increase the challenge. The best single player FPS games, all have stealth mechanics. It's what made those two or three "stealth" missions in Goldeneye 64 so legendary [and where 90% of the replay was]. Research has proven, that the FPS uses more of the brain than any other kind-even more so than puzzle games, because it's what we evolved to do; stalk and be stalked, which also involves constant awareness. If you have a stealth engine and an open world, you can fire a single shot-to see who's around and draw them to your location. Then the stalking and being stalked begins:-) By contrast, I bought Doom 2016 and couldn't sell it quickly enough, because not only was there no way to take cover, but I couldn't believe, there wasn't even a stealth option. That made the gameplay about as deep as a urine stain.

[@HarleyCalamari]

Bro this video is just ..awesome

[@rainbowsweater]

Remeber when Assassin's creed used to be a stealth game. Good times

[@gardenerjpg]

So I recently bought all the splinter cell games on Steam and honestly I’m not gonna lie I played Blacklist again because I liked the game and it was the only one I had before but I did play it with true stealth or at least non lethal to the point where I only really used my non lethal weapons and only bought about two new guns but I only every used my crossbow as well as I only bought stealth clothes and I’m looking forward to play all the new games which will probably take me about three times as long as Blacklist

[@thedestoryer21]

There's a difference between just easily killing all the guards and using your flashbombs, rope arrows, noisemakers, blackjack to stun to escape and find another route in. Both are ways games can handle detection. One is better. That said thief /2 still has the problem that flashbombs are like a get out of jail card as you can just flash them and blackjack.

[@FraserSouris]

I have a few points to make Firstly, it is still possible to have that hardcore stealth experience from games that offer generalist and "going Rambo" with proper modes and design. Take 2013's The Last of Us by Naughty Dog. It's an Action Adventure, Stealth, Survival Horror Title. On the easiest difficulty, you can play it like a standard shooter with a good bit of health and extra ammo being available. On the harder difficulties, in particular Grounded, you feel the weight of every shot, every sneaking action, every item crafted because of how the design and mechanics of the game now have to be used to get you through areas where 2 bullets or hits can kill you, ammo is scarce and enemies can be anywhere. It becomes this stealth survival experience on higher difficulties despite being able to let you go Rambo on easier difficulties, as well as having those action setpieces and story to punctuate the adventure. MGSV also had "subsistence" missions which dropped you into missions with just the clothes on your back and modified the enemies to be more lethal. Which forced players to get creative while being stealthy (Also regarding Survive: It's a Spin-Off. Spin-Offs are allowed to try different things. Here's a video by Muxper kzbin.info/www/bejne/g2ipn5qop66ilcU). MGS4 had an easy mode where you were practically invulnerable, and had Hard and really hard modes where the stealth gameplay from the new mechanics shone Also, see games like Deus Ex HR and MD, Dishonoured, Metro 2033 and Last Light as good examples. Secondly, I'd argue your example for Ludonarrtive Dissonance is off. You killing 15 people in public in a level as 47 with a gun isn't LD because that's you choosing to do it when the stealthy option is still present and just as valid. If the game forced you to do that, and then continued to show 47 as this unseen, invisible force that nobody knows about, then it's LD.

[@BloodCell47]

Thanks for watching dude and I base video game genres off of the "normal" difficulty. The reason why I do that is because the mainstream players (casuals) will play on normal/easy to ensure that they avoid frustration. While you and I look at LOU with a Stealth lens I bet majority would just call LOU a post apocalyptic third person shooter. The reason why it matters what the mainstream would call the game's genre is because this is what makes Stealth relevant (unfortunately) And while MGSV had the subsistence missions you could still kill enemies just as quickly and brute force your way through once you find a machine gun. It might encourage stealth by giving you nothing to work with but the overpowered mechanics that are given to Snake still apply. And about MG Survive, the reason why I complain about it is because I know Konami is leaving the AAA space to focus on Pachinko & their gyms. This means that we will most likely never get another MGS game and so it's disappointing to see Konami's last use of the franchise. Also MGS4 evolved with the times making it a very practical third person shooter with it's streamlined controls. The game kinda naturally guides your hand to play it like a third person shooter by offering a boat load of guns. Even the podcast in the game's iPod had to remind players to play it like a stealth game since they knew most would play it loud. Deus Ex and Dishonored are decent examples but the overpowered nature of your character means mainstream players will gravitate towards that style of play. This means that the general consensus will call it a different genre then it's supposed to be therefore meaning devs won't make it about stealth in the next installment. You can get away with just sword/pistol combat in Dishonored. LD isn't only dictated by the game forcing your hand, player choice effects it too. I can't even count how many times I went to a Hitman article and went down to the comments section only to read about how so many people just "kill everyone in those games :)" LD applies to those players. Now if Hitman's story was to shift with all the killing and alerts then it's not LD because the game molds to that. Dishonored is a good example since it has 2 endings and the civilian life is changed based off of being lethal vs non lethal. Btw I watched that link you sent and there were some good points in it. Again thanks for checking out my video and thanks for taking the time to comment!

[@FraserSouris]

Thanks for being civil. Yeah, while there is a case to be made that difficulty can change the experience, I do agree that the normal difficulty tends to be the default difficulty by which a game is looked at. So games like COD BO3 or Uncharted are looked at as being easy despite potentially being amongst the most difficult games to play on their hardest settings. I do hope that doesn't deter devs from making pure stealth or stealth on higher difficulty games in the future at least. It would have been cool if the Subsistence missions a bonus "extreme" option had enemies packing armour and more easily able to get reinforcements to make using the OP mechanics for brute force much harder to pull off. I too, am sad that Kojima has left and we may never get an "MGS6" like game. Still, at least Konami made a non-canon side game with Survive rather than making an MGS6 or something. Also, Konami's last major link to the AAA gaming, PES, may also be gone soon if EA keeps picking up all the licences. With Deus Ex, at least combat and gunplay were difficult in the early game (and even throughout the whole game depending on your build) where your powers, health, energy and inventory low and enemy firepower high. So that, alongside the cool stealth powers, could also incentivize stealth from the beginning which could mean players are likely to continue being stealthy. Yeah, it would be cool if more stealth games adapted along the player's actions both in terms of mechanics and story. Hitman Blood Money ranks you with the newspaper and (on higher difficulties) adjusts future missions difficulty based on your notoriety. MGSV ties player progression with now much they Fulton, so players are incentivized to not go 100% loud all the time and also has that Demon Snake and cutscenes if you go loud too much. Even linear Stealth titles like Hitman Absolution could benefit from this with later guards having a better idea of how to stop you. It's a small touch, but it could go some ways towards incentivizing stealth from Casual audiences, which would make it more common. My "favourite" meme/comment on that topic is the one with Rambo or Terminator in action with the Caption "When it says Stealth is Optional". I hope I wan't too incoherant here

[@BloodCell47]

Yeah man no arguments here, I'm all for debating in a calm way. The deterrent for devs making stealth games I think comes from them knowing stealth doesn't sell. They have to mix it in with something else or else the mainstream won't give it a second look. While I liked Outlast 1 I would never call it a stealth game and I'm betting to the mainstream it's classified as survival horror. Yeah adding some sort of "de-powering" aspect to the subsistence missions would've been cool since all the mission technically does is just drop on site naked. I feel like if we do see a MGS6 it will be licensed out to another company. But this will mean that the game will probably be drastically different and unrecognizable. Which is what I fear the most. About Deus Ex I was gonna say that in the start you only have 2 batteries (I think, maybe 3) to perform stealth takedowns. And so naturally the game is discouraging stealth melee since it's really annoying waiting for your last battery to refill over time. This would cause the average gamer to default to using the pistol (maybe teaser if they care). Unfortunately if you give the player the option of stealth or action they will pick the easiest one. That critical incentive for going stealth isn't there with a lot of these half and half games in my opinion. I don't know the answers but I'm hoping devs that are smarter then me can come up with something. Lol I've seen that one and no you're good man.

[@FraserSouris]

Yeah. I do hope some stealth game that's more classic in design gets mainstream success soon. That would inspire more devs to give games like that a shot, and even casual audiences be primed and more willing to give games like that a chance. It’s not impossible but an uphill battle for the game. If Dark Souls and Cuphead, the “poster child for difficulty” could get that famous, Stealth Games have a chance Yeah. With Stealth, one of the ways it feels so intense is that sense of vulnerability (Horror Games share it as well). Playing easier hybrid stealth action games feels a bit like playing with a safety net. Which makes it feel like I’m role-playing being stealthy rather than feeling stealthy because I have to. With those Subsistence Missions, if the enemies were more armoured and had more dangerous guns, I’m sure that the initial safety net of “You can easily outshoot this” would be removed. You could remove some of the player’s moves but I say that might be too much. Hey, if another company can Make MGS6 and make it great, then I don’t mind if it’s different. After all, MGS4, PW, V and Revengance were quite different from MG-3 and were received quite well. With DE, perhaps if they affected the rate at which your battery decreased rather than your storage over time, and say, automatically refilled part of your your batteries and their rate on completing certain objectives or certain actions, I’m certain doing Stealth Takedowns and using other stealth powers would be more appealing. For solutions, perhaps the hybrid games could, when they start they could say “Look, I’m a stealth game too. I recommend you play like that on these difficulties/modes to get a true and satisfying experience. You can play me like a Shooter if you want but you’re missing out”. I remember Metro did something like that (Metro was more a stealth survival game at heart anyway with great shooting). The Just Stealth Games would benefit greatly from a Just Stealth Game getting mainstream attention as like I said, That would get them more attention and inspire more. But I don't have any more immediate solutions. Still, I enjoyed the discussion and hope more classic Stealth gets a AAA comeback. :)

[@BloodCell47]

As dire as I think pure stealth's situation is I still am not giving up hope that it'll come back. Also in MGS1 they had a part when you enter the Warhead Storage facility that Snake couldn't fire his guns so maybe they should've tried that in the Subsistence missions. I'm sure if the IP was licensed out to a company that loved MGS then the game would be treated with care and they might bring something to the table that we never knew we wanted out of MGS. Yeah the battery thing was a real stealth stopper back when I was playing DE:HR & DE:MD. But even with that slow as eff battery recovery I would still wait in a corner long enough for it to recover so I can do one takedown lol. Once the devs figure out a compelling incentive to picking stealth over action then we can start to see the lens shift. And by compelling I don't mean extra money or an audio diary or something dumb like that lol. There needs to be a "crazy" development team that is willing to take the risk of coming out with an AMAZING pure stealth game. Once word spreads that the game is amazing then the mainstream will bite and we may have our second chance at the spotlight. Here's to AAA Stealth coming back in the future! Thanks again for watching and all the comments!

[@Enzz_]

Well done Chris. Very enjoyably video. I totally agree with all your points. I wonder if the market moved to the "Rambo" type games as our demographic grows older. Kids like to Rambo everything, have short attention spans and often don't want to invest themselves into a story or character building story, and it may be what's driving the market.

[@BloodCell47]

Unfortunately it was obvious that the general market didn't want to invest themselves in these games so that's what created these half and half stealth games. And even with the stealth games "kinda" catering to both demographics it still didn't boost sales. They need to pick one (true stealth obviously) and just stick with it. Thanks for watching Enzster!

[@F2t0ny]

While guns blazing is i guess an option in SC blacklist the game is perfectly playable if you want to go ghost only. I never used my actual guns. if i was spotted id run away, break line of sight and try again.

[@BloodCell47]

Yeah I would go through and ghost too or KO everyone non lethally. If you look at the arsenal though the game is kinda naturally encouraging you to be loud and lethal with the tidal wave of grenades and different lethal guns. And because it's the path of least resistance you can bet casual Splinter Cell players just avoided stealth/non lethal gameplay. The way you said you played is the "hardcore" way but everyone should play that way in my opinion. Thanks for watching!

[@F2t0ny]

Don't forget though that the game rewards you the least for going loud and rewards you significantly more for going ghost. I haven't played the game in years but I think you got like 150 points for leaving an enemy untouched and only like 30 for killing them in a firefight. Have you played the Dishonored games much? Going loud is very much an option but killing leads to more guards and more rats/bloodflies.

[@BloodCell47]

You're right about the game rewarding you for leaving enemies untouched. People just tend to have an itchy trigger finger and give into the power fantasy. I've also played the crap out of both Dishonored games. Always went non lethal/ghost. And for the game to add more bodies to kill I think would've been considered a plus to someone who likes to go loud. But yeah, stealth is the way to go. I just know for non hardcore players that don't have a lot of patience, killing is easier therefore more enjoyable to them.

[@Freelancer837]

I hate that Splinter Cell and MGS both went the same way of becoming action games and forgetting what they were. It's why I'm not excited about Kojima making another stealth game. He hasn't made a great game since 2004

[@Mulcam29]

As someone who mostly grew up on Gabe and Sam...... This saddens me

[@animeandgame3875]

One of my favorite stealth games is Splinter cell and hitman the moment I knew it I fell in love with stealth it's a shame there, is no new stealth game I saw a trailer game call hood:outlaws & legend I have not play it yet.

[@Mister.Psychology]

Great video, dude.

[@BloodCell47]

Thanks for checking it out man!

[@user-cz9rq5cp4i]

I'm surprised you didn't mention one the best stealth games of all time thief gold.

[@Swerver416]

Good video mate subbed

[@BloodCell47]

Thanks for watching and thanks for the sub!

[@victorsandeen2694]

I like MGSV, but I did Rambo through a lot of it because I'm not good at stealth.

[@BloodCell47]

No problem at all, my gripe was just that I wish more games were for pure stealth fans since there's already thousands of games designed for action fans. We have a pretty tiny list in comparison. Thanks for watching man!

[@victorsandeen2694]

You're welcome.

[@felipe8511]

i wouldnt say its dying, id say the genre is lost it seems like tech developers stopped caring about physics and other technologies that stealth games are heavily reliant i dont remember the last time ive played a stealth game with REAL sound detection (not like whistle to trigger NPC reaction) or hide in shadows or anything like that, it was pretty much chaos theory now games are mostly about giving up physics using pre animated stuff, scripted scenarios and long cutscenes to add playtime, then push higher and higher resolution

[@AvengedHate26]

Blacklist failed because of not Sam. Michel Ironside was the voice for the entirety of the series. They swapped him for blacklist, it failed so bad that every cameo Sam has had since has been Ironside voicing. Metal gear had the same problem with 5, we all wanted to hear David Hayter, not some movie star. Casual fans played it loud, us ogs play using the stealth. With that being said when you actually use it, mgsv has the best stealth to date, so good in fact last of us 2 stole it.

[@chelseyt7091]

Was searching on KZbin for a stealth co-op game cause yes true stealth is hard to find.. Nd I found this lol & from TWO years ago 😭 I'll definitely have to check out Hitman & Splinter Cell.. I was like 8 when that came out so i was playing things like Sims Nd Rollercoaster tycoon lmao. Great video though, thanks!

[@angrazero8296]

but what about Syphon Filter?

[@SamanthaSaunderz]

This video was amazing look onto your love of stealth and I agree and with you for alot of this, you did miss Thief that came out which I imagine someone has bought up before xD But yeah I think I love Blacklist the second best but that's because at that moment in my life I wanted a SC soo bad and it was easy to pick up and go. So I spent hours with it because of that 😀

[@BloodCell47]

Thanks for checking it out! Unfortunately the only Thief game I've played was Thief 2014 lol. I did enjoy the game but I missed the original Thief train. I need to go back and play them. Yeah I definitely don't hate Blacklist but I compare every game to Chaos Theory as the gold standard. The biggest punch to the gut was not having Michael Ironside voice Sam. It just soured the game for me a bit as petty as that sounds. Regardless I still enjoyed the game to the fullest and loved plaything the co-op missions.

[@tjopland3240]

a good watch

[@BloodCell47]

a good comment (thanks for watching)

[@acadiia]

Metal gear solid peace walker came after metal gear solid 4

[@ShoXwavee]

I mean if you play Blacklist on realistic or higher difficulty the game becomes way better, Two or three shots and you're done. So i think Blacklist did well...better than MGS V that's for sure. Plus there's a good amount of missions were if you get spotted the mission is over.

[@BloodCell47]

Definitely, playing Blacklist on realistic made it more of a stealth title by making the loud approach a dangerous one. But games are judged from their normal difficulties in the public eye. In terms of sales though MGSV dominates Blacklist. Also I liked those missions but because it wasn't part of the main missions, it's likely that the general market never bothered to play them and just judged from the normal campaign.

[@titanoboaoficial2014]

I LOVE THISSSSS

[@reggiereg2064]

Plenty of indie games keeping it alive

[@gustomucho81]

Assassin Creed Deus Ex Dishonored Thief Far Cry Sniper I do not think the genre is dying, it is adapting to the reality of aging gamers vs new gamers, hardcore vs casual. The gaming offer is so wide now and we have a finite entertainment time, fast gratification wins. I could spend weeks playing games during summer, now if I can play a couple of hours each week I am happy. Instant gratification in young demographic is key and once you access easy gratification it is hard to punish players for a mistake in a 20-30 minute mission, people will not buy it and the press will destroy you.

[@BloodCell47]

Thanks for watching btw man. While I disagree I do understand that the aging gamer has less time to game. But I feel like the solution to the time constrained gamer is the "save anywhere" feature from Splinter Cell Chaos Theory. And the point about easy gratification, I feel like if we morph all stealth to become easy gratification then stealth will naturally lose its identity. It's hard to play stealth but that's also why we love it. And out of the list of games that you listed, in my opinion I think Thief is the only real stealth game and that game came out in 2011(edit: made a mistake, it was 2014). The other titles are like current stealth games where you can play stealth but when you get spotted it's super easy to kill your way out of it. And the catch here is that even though these newer games are adapted to fit easy gratification and time constrained gamers it still isn't putting stealth back in the spotlight. Thanks for leaving a comment dude!

[@4i4kov]

Not really stealth games though. I'm not sure it so much evolved as it just died out and got slightly revived as part of the "games trying to be the ultimate game" trend. You know, where they focus on nothing and throw in RPG elements, stealth elements, action elements, racing game elements, an open world etc., trying to please everyone ever until the only thing left by which you define the game's genre is the camera perspective. See: Ubisoft games.

[@adrian21339]

Stealth games is fun but it frustrating because you keep getting caught all the time that why it's Stealth games is dying

[@blakemarsee4801]

What about the Styx games?

[@BloodCell47]

Styx is indie but I hear they are good games. I haven't tried them out yet.

[@scarecrowlego884]

Gr8 video m8

[@somgnosis5571]

The only way to save stealth is a community created open source MMORPG.

[@12bfost]

if ubisoft wants to increase profits it should re-release splinter 1,2,3, and 4(NOT the xbox360 version!!!) in HD!

[@acilgaming9024]

2023 lets goooo

[@Himmyjewett]

My problem with stealth games is I fucking suck at them

[@mlfitness67]

Stealth is used in State of decay... if your smart

[@dibbage]

Batman arkham games?!?!..

[@BloodCell47]

The Arkham games have "stealth segments" but I wouldn't consider them stealth games. You can stealth in Spiderman PS4, Red Dead Redemption 2 & The Evil Within 2 but I wouldn't consider them stealth games. I put the Arkham games in the same boat. I still love the crap out of those stealth segments though.

[@ZubtigoPlaza]

I disagree, for some part, forcing pure ghosting as only way is dumb, it sounds you like you want the game to end the second you get spotted like in those shitty stealth sequences in modern games. I'm all for making combat challenging and making the characters weak so that stealth is a necessity but that a skilled player can still fight their way out, stealth shouldn't just be a way to play; like Dishonored (which isn't really a stealth game but worth mentioning) Also DA was in no way pure stealth.

[@12bfost]

also somebody tell ROCKSTAR to re-release or remake MANHUNT 1&2!!!

[@spliffmasters732]

Me too..

[@goldheartodyssey4486]

I liked Conviction waaaay more than Blacklist. Especially since Blacklist is so janky and buggy. Also Conviction Deniable Ops and co-op >>>>> anything in Blacklist.

[@zombienerd5292]

Just saying ubisoft. If you were even considering remaking the originals for xb1/ps4 people would buy it. I would hands down. If you put them all in a collection and rereleased them in ultra HD or what ever people would buy them. Dont miss out on an opportunity like this. So many people want this. Call of duty is dying and they think that releasing a game every year is cool, it's not. And dont get me started on battle royale lol.