Setting toolheight: Mill and Lathe

[@taranson3057]

I’m still learning this hobby at 60 years old and I always have struggled setting up the height of lathe tools. So I tried your caliper method and now I am seeing better results when turning. Parting off, the one thing that has never worked for me, all of a sudden started working out. It’s amazing the things you can learn from others who offer a variety of techniques to reach the same goal.

[@rallymax2]

Thank you for going to the effort to run 3 cameras. That’s a lot of work, so thank you again.

[@rok1475]

An ordinary CCTV camera with a $25 “microscope” lens with C-mount thread (from China, of course…) connected to a small LCD monitor makes a very handy inspection tool. I find older B&W cameras work better than color ones. You can position it almost anywhere on a mill or a lathe where your head with magnifying glass would not fit. The magnification factor is order of magnitude bigger than magnifying glass. I have one mounted permanently on Optima drill grinder, replacing original double mirror-lens-shadow screen arrangement. Another one on a swing arm on a surface grinder. There are newer (more expensive) cameras that send out HD image via VGA or HDMI connector, but a standard resolution cameras from CCTV installations do good enough job. Worth a try in my opinion.

[@Arnthorg]

black and white sensors (generally) have larger pixel size which means the sensor has higher dynamic range and less noise.

[@taranson3057]

@@rok1475 I purchased an inspection camera that connects to my iPhone, the camera only cost me $11.50 and it works great.

[@rok1475]

@@Arnthorg the ambient light in the room is enough for the Sony B&W camera in my Optima grinder to show very clear and high contrast image. If I turn the light mounted inside the grinder on, the highlights are blown. When I initially tried color camera, the image looked better with the light on. So I installed B&W cameras on both machines.

[@gregfeneis609]

Just a quick toolroom tip.... All your fans that get you will know what's coming up. Thanks for generously showing all the strategies and I'm shocked at how clear that acrylic comes out without polishing.

[@HairyNumbNuts]

I use an adjustable parallel. Fit it under the tool, tighten, zero the DRO Z, lift the cutter and measure the parallel and add that to the current Z height. Great use for cheap Chinese adjustable parallels. The Lathe one is clever, thanks for that. Cheers, Phil.

[@TheRecreationalMachinist]

Great stuff. Amongst other things, today I learnt diamond tools are a thing. Thanks for sharing Stefan 👍 Matt in the UK

[@arjanvanraaij8440]

So handy for novice machinist, clear explanation no endless babble. Keep making these videos Stefan.

[@AbdulazizAl-Khater]

Informative as always with the usual sprinkling of good humor. Always appreciate your videos Stefan, thank you!

[@edpopelas2844]

10:59 I’ve not seen this method before. Super simple, quick and great for getting close. Fine tuning is always inevitable. Great video as always! 👍👍

[@first_namelast_name4923]

Thank you. I always learn a lot from watching your videos.

[@fullmetalpenguin]

I didn’t expect to learn anything new when I started watching this, but I was very wrong. Thanks, Stefan!

[@wktodd]

Stefan "The Spider" , I m impressed by the finish you get with that diamond. 😄

[@v3ctors69]

Stefan, thanks for sharing with us. It's always a great learning experience. Also, that finish is insane.

[@StuartsShed]

Excellent techniques. I made a Joe Pie style lathe height tool - which in essence is exactly the same as one of your lathe height techniques. I particularly like that you took the time to measure the mill height setting techniques capability for comparison. Also - nice Cats. I like cats. Thanks!

[@kurtkrause7151]

Love the climbing wall Stefan. Great way to ease stress, keep fit etc. Cold plunge works for me almost all year. Cheers. Love your video tutorials. 👍🤙⚡️😊

[@JFirn86Q]

"it will reacted a little... ah, salty" haha, love it. Thanks Stefan, never fail to learn at least 1 thing from your videos!

[@randyshoquist7726]

For forty years I used the old method of carefully pinching my six inch pocket rule against the workpiece and eyeballing vertical. I always worried about damaging the tool tip, but not enough to stop me, and it worked well enough. Then I saw some KZbinr with a dedicated dial indicator, and I decided I just had to have one. So now I have a mag base with a carefully zeroed dial indicator fitted with a flat point so it's easy to locate over the cutter tip. Overkill, maybe, but I like making and using gadgets. Its easy to use, quick, and accurate first time, every time. Perfect facing cuts with no muss, no fuss.

[@maxfarr4142]

Loved the bouldering clip. I've been interested in machining and bouldering for 30years now!!❤❤❤

[@nickandersonco]

I liked your quiet machining/climbing analogy there at the end!

[@RotarySMP]

Excellent explanation. Thanks Stefan.

[@chrisstephens6673]

One of the few channels i watch at normal speed, the majority i watch at 1.5 or x2. So 👍 to you! I use an old Boxford comparator guage for tool height setting on the lathe, but I keep meaning to change the tip to a wide one rather than a small ball.

[@angelramos-2005]

Good to know all different approaches.Thank you Stefan-

[@ikkiiiieee]

incredible video from start to finish. I love these vids Stefan. The mention of the PET tape is gold. Keep doing what you do! Very cool to see those exotic inserts as well

[@davidcolwill860]

I have become a fan of the round gauge pin, probably from watching you do it.😁

[@nophead]

That is how I calibrate Z on my 3D printers. I roll a 10mm rod under the nozzle when the bed and nozzle are at working temperature. It doesn't need to be a gauge pin because I can measure the rod with calipers or a micrometer.

[@simonhopkins3867]

Thank you for your teachings master😉. I love the idea of using a pin or shank on the mill. Our senses are such a powerful tool.

[@karlsorensen3214]

Thank you for another great video. I really look forward to them!

[@kevinkohler2750]

The performance of the diamond cutter is amazing! An old machinist/gunsmith friend told me he would wet a small piece of cigarette paper with his tongue and place it on the work, then bring the spinning cutter down until it whisked the paper away, then he knew he was .001" off the work. This was 30+ years ago, so maybe I'm not getting the detail exactly right.

[@cameronjohnston5748]

Thank you for what you show and the explanation of why it's done that way. Fascinating. Do you have a video somewhere about the uses of negative rake angles for tooling? Again many thanks.

[@LANless]

Very nice video, thank you. I will now be explaining my cutters as being 'salty' when they misbehave!

[@pirminkogleck4056]

i prefer 10 micron steel shimstock over the cigarette papers. And the variation between brands of papers is quite big...from the thinest papers i had 15 micron up to 40 micron like the ones you show here .

[@vr66luke]

Another fantastic video. Patiently waiting for the high speed head conclusion.

[@jonasfelleki8374]

Thanks for great tips! I use the same technique for tool height on the mill and it works fine. The one with gauge blocks on the lathe was new to me and very straight forward. I'll try that the next time!

[@danapatelzick594]

Briefly I worked for a thermal imaging company. We could design a lens and have the optical surfaces turned on a cnc lathe with a single point tool. Technicians would hand lap the surface to their satisfaction. I wasn't sure that it was better but for the prototype units we built it wasn't worth proving what was better. I left before it went into production and long term evaluation. Your machining example was very cool.

[@ROBRENZ]

Good stuff Stefan, enjoyed! ATB, Robin

[@johnbaker7621]

May I say your skills are way above anyone I known in the past

[@StefanGotteswinter]

I am just yelling louder than many others of a higher skill level :-D

[@shawnlund]

Great video and cool seeing you climbing at the end. I climbed most of my life and have starting thinking about getting back into the gym again 🙂

[@ukaszSkowerski]

amazing finish :) You're obviously a magician of some sort... a machinistmant probably

[@paulbadger6336]

Well done 👍. Thanks for for taking the time to share.

[@williammills5111]

Thank you, Stefan. More useful information!

[@daveharriman2756]

That was just great, thanks. The round gauge pin method I like! Glad you showed the bouldering at the end, I was amazed at watching this sport in the Olympics, I'd only heard of the term through this channel, plus you can't beat watching some cat action!

[@ginox4884]

Thankyou Mr. Gotteswinter, Sir! The lathe too height method using the caliper is a handy little tip. Kind Regards, GinoX

[@aquilifergroup]

Great tips. Thank you

[@TrPrecisionMachining]

good video stefan..thanks for your time

[@felixar90]

Something I done in the past, is tighten the collet into a sliding fit with no play. Then I get close to the part, and using my fingers I just adjust the tool until it’s touching the part or a feeler gauge. Then I tighten the collet and zero the height or enter the thickness of the gauge.

[@PaulMcEvoyGuitars]

I do this with my CNC router for tool changes. If the tool is roughly the same length you can take the old tool out, put the new one in loosely and then hold it with your fingers, Z zero the spindle and then let the tool sit on the zero point and tighten it. Works quite well. Sort of foolprooof.

[@chrismayer8990]

A new Stefan Gotteswinter Video! 🤩

[@bcbloc02]

Rock climbing is fun, really more fun somelace like that than in nature when sometimes the rocks pull out! LOL

[@Assorted-Moose-Nonsense]

I use a similar method on the lathe as your 2 gauge blocks, except with a dial indicator on its own dedicated base. (Obviously set up for indicating centre height only.) You can move the cutter height up and down with no risk of damage to anything.

[@sevenninthsfabmachine]

Nice gym climbing footage at the end. Greetings from a climber in California! 🧗

[@stevensmart8868]

Thanks for the tips. Another great video cheers.

[@minigpracing3068]

For cutting the pmma, have you ever tried grinding a tool flat or very shallow top relief angle to basically scrape the plastic away? That prevents the plastic from getting pulled into the cutter (or tool pulled in the plastic). I did a bunch of reading when I was works with acrylic a lot and found that preparing my drill bits to scrape a hole worked a lot better than trying to cut a chip. Found similar in using "down spiral" end mills to push the plastic down into the vise. Some of this was definitely from lack of ridgid tooling, but thought i would ask if you have ever tried making a cutting tool similar to what I described.

[@alungiggs]

Very interesting and informative video, thank you. I see your bouldering skills are improving 🙂. A chronic back problem curtailed my climbing hobby several years ago unfortunately ☹️. 👍🇳🇱

[@giorgiocanal1659]

Wonderful diamond tool... About milling machine, I use the pin method to set the tool height, but not with the shank of another carbide tool. I use a steel pin to avoid carbide-carbide contact. When you slide a carbide shank under the cutting edge of a tool, the area of contact is approaching zero, so the pressure is going extremely high, enough to damage it. Using a steel pin, the pin get scratched, but every time you test, the point of contact is different, so scratches are not an issue. My height test pin is already matte coz all the scratches, but still working as new.

[@dscott1524]

I use an adjustable parallel if I need a somewhat accurate tool height. Just insert the adjustable parallel between the cutter and part, raise the parallel until it contacts the cutter, note the cutter position, remove the parallel and mic it. Reasonable accuracy and easy. cheers.

[@Preso58]

Thanks for showing the diamond insert. I've never seen one used on a conventional lathe before. I sort of assumed you would need an air bearing spindle to get good results.

[@trondwell13]

Thqnks - I probe slightly outside my workpiece with a gauge block - that way the block begins to tip over or off. So the angle of the block gives me a dial as to when the touch off will be - also as I go down the gauge tips off and cannot get damaged . I wonder what you think of my method

[@CreaseysWorkshop]

I have just started playing with some cheap diamond inserts. Fantastic results for high carbon steel even on my old hobby lathe. I might grind up some of those height setting blocks. That's a great tip.

[@leafs4626]

Oh the diamond turning is so cool !!!

[@stumccabe]

Excellent video - I learned something new!

[@rogerrascal8632]

Excellent tips thanks Stefan, nice climbing too!

[@UncleKennysPlace]

I often use a feeler gauge on the milling machine, it certainly is good enough for my work. It's also cheap to replace!

[@manusholm1544]

very interesting . one thing came to mind as i was watching about the finish of the plastic. we do a lot of prop building for mostly event and advertising. often have to construct things out of acrylic. a common technique to finish tooling marks is flame polishing. but when you do construction with chemical welding that also require flame polishing its best to first do chemical treatment before heat. the heat changes the plastic on the surface and when you introduce solvents to treat it can crack up completely. crazy to see. so we do bonding first then flame polishing. just a shop tip for who ever it may be useful.

[@greglaroche1753]

Interesting approaches. Are there any other materials or applications that lend themselves to a diamond insert? Thanks for the video!

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Almost everything that doesnt have iron in it - Copper, Brass, Many plastics, Aluminium and requires very good surface finishes.

[@howardosborne8647]

@@StefanGotteswinter PCD tips most certainly put a superb finish on copper components.

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Yeah they do - But MKD is literally another cut above, but that comes at a price.

[@TheWidgetWorks]

I wish my flat bed lathes cross slides were in good enough shape to use a indicator stand on. But they both have done way to much heavy work (I'm not complaining that's what I bought them to do and that's paid for them) and just the chips have scoured it up to the point that I'm better off with just a decent tape measure to get it close enough. I do love the caliper trick though, I'd never heard or thought of doing it that way before and I'll definitely be giving that a try. Thanks for sharing!

[@martindietrich2011]

I use often a feeler gauge (0,5m am or so)

[@quintinsmits]

I recently sold a centering microscope to a friend and he told me he planned to use it for setting tool heights on his lathe. First thing I did when I got my new (to me) centering scope was checking all my lathe tools...

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Haha :D I have a Moore centering microscope in a box, but without shank - Might become a project at some point.

[@wavetwo2171]

I hope we get another "Flux" part soon! Would love to see all your new goodies in action.

[@MarkW321]

Great video.

[@jeff1176]

Some good tips and tricks, alternatives to the cigarette paper. I see countless use that technique, your techniques are so much better and easier especially on the lathe. I wonder if you can get some sort of ball cutter with diamond to cut spheres out of plexiglass that clear. I'm also not sure one could afford such a cutting tool.

[@davidzindman]

Thank you very much for this information I learned a lot

[@1crazypj]

Nice cats, we have one like the short hair (Sammy) the other looks identical to one that has been coming around since he was a kitten (I call him Fluffy and he answers to it I think people up the street have adopted him ( or more likely he adopted them, your always the cats 'servant') because he hasn't been around much last several months. Very much doubt he took a holiday to Austria 😁

[@lstearns7639]

ah! how to measure center height of a lathe. Very useful. thank you for sharing along with the other techniques.

[@gravyblue]

I use a dial indicator plunge/ tool setting gauge. Seems to be accurate enough for my needs

[@StefanGotteswinter]

I dont doubt their accuracy - What kills me is how tall they are :-D

[@gravyblue]

@StefanGotteswinter 50 mm on mine, and it's a cube. I also feel a bit fraudulent using words " accuracy" around you!

[@normandogrady2965]

What do you cut with a diamond insert if it is so fragile?

[@mpetersen6]

When searching for the surface in the mill l always set the stop for the quill just short of the surface and dialed it down a thou at a time. To get close l would feed down to a piece of tagboard material like a requisition form, time card, etc. they are typically 5 to 7 thou thick On OD grinders when picking up the diameter we used china markers. To set depths gage blocks between the quill stops

[@supatipannobhagavato]

Hi Stefan, could you suggest the way to center a slitting saw? currently I only measure the saw blade thickness, touch off the top of workpiece, then move down half the saw blade thickness, zero DRO, then move down to half of workpiece's thickness. I'm still a home shop newbie so not sure if there is a better or quicker method.

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Pretty much like you described:) Thats a very decent way of doing it.

[@StefanGotteswinter]

I will do a follow up video showing another technique.

[@supatipannobhagavato]

@@StefanGotteswinter 🙏🙏🙏

[@LumberjackPa]

KZbin loves cats and rock climbing, too! Thanks for sharing!

[@weakestlink87]

I'm very interested in hearing more about the laser mirrors. Are you getting stock coated to get the correct refraction properties? What wavelength light are you working with? Does the finish from the diamond insert provide a good enough surface for direct use or is there an additional lapping step?

[@agie170hss2]

@StefanGotteswinter You may have mentioned this and I missed it?..... If setting (especially) a positive rake insert with a tip radius... and using it for facing: The actual contact point (of the cutting edge) on the insert can be a small bit "lower" than the centerline height measurement at the high spot on the insert. A bit difficult to measure, but with an indicator with a very small "ball tip" on the stylus, it can be viewed through a good eyepiece so that the measuring indicator is positioned to contact the insert at (or very very close to) the true contact point on the insert. Same goes for a negative rake insert with a decent corner radius, where the true contact point (for facing) is a tiny bit "higher" than the tip of the insert.

[@cyppe]

Stefan - not sure you have time to answer this. But I just bought Aikron DRO and their optical scales just like you installed on your Weiler. But no matter how I add linear compensation the measurement still drifts a little bit. I had the same problem on my old scales I replaced with Aikron in hope of getting rid of this. Especially I notice it on X axis. If put a indicator (mitutoyo long travel) to double check the accuracy compared to the DRO if I move X back and forth many times the problem becomes bigger and when I go back to zero it's usually about 0,02 mm off compared the the original zero vs. the indicator. So my question is - is this normal with some minor drifting when moving for example X back and forth? Almost like a backlash in the scales. Trying to get some indication if it's worth for me to investigate this problem any more or this is the reality of glass scales / dro.

[@EvoKeremidarov]

I would love to see that diamond tool in action as well as the burnishing tool.. you should make a video when you have time. P.S I posted this before i finished watching the whole video 🤣

[@gaiustacitus4242]

On a knee mill you can rotate the spindle, either at slow RPM in back gear or by hand, in the direction of cutter operation while slowly raising the knee until a very slight mark appears. A similar operation can be performed on a lathe while slowly feeding in the compound rest. This is a technique that is fast, easy, extremely accurate, requires no additional material not already at the machine, and can be taught to apprentices in minutes.

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Yes, agree - but my customers often down appreciate toolmarks from touching off.

[@gaiustacitus4242]

@@StefanGotteswinter I would never use that technique on a finished surface. For work on such parts, the approach can be used on a reference block or rod that is only used for setup and returned to the toolbox. Following touch-off, the setup block is returned to the toolbox. When too many touch offs have marred the surface, a light cut restores the surface.

[@neffk]

the macro videography is really nice

[@TheUncleRuckus]

We definitely need more shop kitty content 😂👍👍

[@voodoochild1954]

Just curious, how much actually does that diamond insert cost?

[@StefanGotteswinter]

~300eur before tax

[@voodoochild1954]

@@StefanGotteswinter Wow, thanks.

[@billshiff2060]

The Gage block method is not only "sacrificial" it is sacrilegious! Suitable only for scrap gage blocks but then what is the point.

[@StefanGotteswinter]

I dont mind using an old gage blick thats still well within a few microns but doesn't wring anymore for work like that.

[@billshiff2060]

@@StefanGotteswinter OLD TIMER TIP: You can restore Wringing to a gage block by rubbing the face against a granite surface plate. That will remove the high spots that prevent it from wringing without touching or altering the base size. It works exactly the same way as Robins precision ground flat stones work. In fact they used to sell gage block restoration kits that were nothing more than a small piece of granite surface plate. Try it, it works. There is a lot more life left in those old gage blocks.

[@jeffreygreiter1521]

Wieder ein mega interessantes video😊,du erwähnst immer die haimer Taster usw. sind ungenau. Es wäre einmal interessant eine Einschätzung zu bekommen, wie ungenau diese sind. Bzw. wie sich das auswirkt auf einer konventionellen Maschine

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Ich mag die Dinger einfach nicht. Nichts an denen gibt mir das Gefühl einer sicheren Messung - Hohe Messkraft, Messkraft die je nach Richtung verschieden Stark ist und eine etwas schwammige Einstellung auf Rundlauf. Deswegen mag ich Fuhlerhebel und normale Kantentaster - die sind rundlaufunabhängig.

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Liegt übrigens nicht an Haimer - Die machen ganz großartiges Werkzeug. Ich mag die ganzen mechanischen 3D taster nicht, egal welcher Hersteller drauf steht. Hatte mal einen Schunk, einen Garant und eben den nagelneuen Haimer (Den hab ich aus Neugier gekauft). Aber die geben mir nie das Gefühl von Vertrauen 🤣

[@davidnoake]

What do you think of something like a Basemaster BMM-20 for mill tool height setting? More accurate than the pin gauge method?

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Coming from Big Daishowa I would trust their +-1µm repeating spec absolutely :) The variant for swiss lathes looks nice and compact. I guess its like 1000usd/eur, without looking it up?

[@iTeerRex]

23:47 I guess the flux capacitor is not finished yet 😁. Thanks for lessons Stefan 👍

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Flux capacitor shipped last week :-D

[@iTeerRex]

@@StefanGotteswinter 😉

[@russelldold4827]

1. A lathe cross-slide is set relative to the spindle axis to ensure that a facing cut will be slightly concave. Do you have that "offset" specification for your lathe? 2. Obviously for producing an optically flat face, a subsequent lapping process would be used, but the diamond tool "as machined" finishes are impressive. Do you take steps to reduce distortion from the clamping forces of your 6-jaw chuck?

[@Der_Drache]

you dont need lapping for a Optical flat surface. its all depending what wavelenght is later used but a DTL can make most of them with Diamond tools and only smaller wavelenght need then more polishing to get the surface roughness more down

[@Tezza120]

What about the steel ruler pinched between the cutter an round part - equivilent to paper on the mill. :) Honestly for hss tools I still used it but I've turned a bar to my tool height and visually check it for most tools. Super impressed with the diamond. I wonder if i can use this synthetic sapphire from aliexpress to make a decent cutting tool...hmm

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Whatever works for you! I am not here to tell whats wrong or right, just want to share what works for me :-) I have used the ruler on round parts to find the centerline for quick dirty stuff quite often. Or used the shank of a spotting drill as an edgefinder :D (Theres also cheap MKD diamond tools on Aliexpress.)

[@GameBacardi]

13:23 ... I just wondering, how did you got that exactly 70mm height from that place ? *edit 21:46 Answer is here, thank you!

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Usually I try to answer things like that right in the video :-)

[@HansFormerlyTraffer]

How about putting a feeler gauge on top of the pin and when it sits parallel to the bed it's level and then just add the thickness of the gauge.

[@kmpnelson]

Have you ever tried using a dial or digital presetter and compared the result? Obviously they're generally not for manual machines but I can't see a reason they wouldn't work.. the only real issue I'd think would be irregular surfaces vs the size of their base but to some degree you need a reasonable sized plane to do any of these, maybe not with the paper. Also, why do you not trust the haimer?

[@StefanGotteswinter]

I think they work fine - But I dislike the bulk they add. Its a lot of Z-Movement to make it fit between work and part. Also often theres no space to fit it on my parts.

[@capncharlie7894]

27:42 -- cool mist ?

[@StefanGotteswinter]

Nope, just compressed air - Handheld airgun.

[@ianmoone2359]

Fantastic learning experience. 👍👍👍🇦🇺

[@grippgoat]

Awww, kitties! 😻

[@polyhexamethyl2607]

if the z height on my mill is not super critical, i also use the rolling paper approach, but with a running spindle and the paper stuck on the workpiece with a little bit of oil, so the damage risk to the cutter is less but if you go too fast, you’ll plunge in the workpiece 😂

[@billdoodson4232]

Stefan, I use Rizla Silver cigarette papers. With my Starrett 0-25mm micrometer I find they are about 0.01mm thick, which is good enough for me, although probably not for you, as I commented on the Doubleboost channel earlier this week.

[@StefanGotteswinter]

I think its just important to know the thickness, not that it is a certain thickness :)

[@potlimit2002]

A hardened adjustable parallel is also a quick and easy way to find Z height.

[@fpoastro]

How is a cutting edge so robust it can withstand the abuse of material removal yet gently touching the edge with a gauge stack would chip it? I can see when zeroing off a face and bumping an insert hard with the carriage but interesting that even being tender with the gauge stack would damage an edge or even the rip of DTI. Great video as usual

[@somebodyelse6673]

I did not know diamond could be brazed. Had to do some homework, but now I know there's a couple processes for it.