Step by Step Learning vs Creative Learning - Jocko Willink

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@jockowillink @echocharles
Excerpt from JOCKOPODCAST 58

[@davebeech236]

As an English teacher, I find this very interesting. All these principles that apply to jiu-jitsu also apply to academic writing skills. Fascinating.

[@moonasha]

i find i learn best when presented with two things: comprehension why the thing works/happens (e.g., in jiujitsu it would be an anatomical explanation of a joint and leverage), and an example where it wouldn't work/happen and why. I've found a lot of instructors get irritated when I ask why something WOULDN'T work in a given situation where it's obvious THAT it won't work, but not WHY... which is frustrating to me because it's incredibly important for comprehension. Just something to keep in mind if you're ever teaching something... maybe explain an example where the thing won't work.

[@UberTankred]

Your suggestion of an explanation, how/why/when something doesn't work is a subset of the "cons" to an argument i.e. the negative aspects of your principle. The hurdle here is a psychological one. A strong teacher will gladly admit to the weaknesses of his argument and even point them out. A weak teacher isn't able to do that. Why? Because the strong teacher wants to improve your skills, but the weak teacher wants to improve his image.

[@dylan-cj1cg]

DISCIPLINE = FREEDOM

[@kevslinger]

the nextlevel FREEDOM = TIRTLE

[@olemanshavadoo7893]

My first jiu jitsu coach encouraged me to be creative. He wanted to see if I would come up with something he’d never seen before. That’s how I built my own game as a white belt.

[@mr.antaeus5730]

Creative learning has always been the most natural for me. Learning the discipline to go through step-by-step training has been what I've had to focus on for a long time so I can gain the tools, space, and respect to comfortably be able to engage my creative learning. As powerful and beautiful as creative learning can be, the step-by-step is just as important to be able to learn the foundations of a certain subject. The motion, memory, and then the applicability of those simple steps are like a painters brush and canvas. A painter can't paint if he/she doesnt have the tools he/she needs in order to do so, you know?

[@penguin7323]

well said! step by step for starting out and be creative when you're developing.

[@mr.antaeus5730]

@@penguin7323 Exactly!

[@jahrojasexqsys5238]

I like the approach of teaching something step by step or breaking it down so it's easy to understand, but only spend a portion of the training session doing this....making sure to leave enough time for sparring. In high school we had a really good wrestling coach and one thing he made sure we spent time doing at least a few times a week was round robbins. Split off into groups of 4 people similar weight but diverse skill and then go full speed 1 minute free wrestling rounds. Person 1 wrestles 2 then 3 then 4 each for a minute (if working takedowns, immediately let person up after securing takedown and go back at it) then person 2 wrestles 3 then 4 the 1 and so on. I learned more about the art of wrestling in those round robbins than anything else....but i was only able to learn about the art because i had spent time learning about the mechanics and theory as well. That knowledge gave me some tools and techniques which I was then able to try out and experience in the real world scenarios round robbins provided. For someone like me who was not a natural athletic genius, this method of training allowed me to develop into a far better wrestler than going heavy on technique/strategy or heavy on sparring ever would have.

[@philadams493]

playing is the mother of all creativity. get them to play

[@almalucero3437]

Something i learn from the strugles after go to war is the P.S.T.D. I meet a veteran (very well aprecciate friend) My reallization of significant similarities is that a person dont need to a war to have the same effects, life for alot of people could be like a war zone (environment where they grow) can be more traumautize than war.

[@face.]

Did Echo lose a bet where he had to wear a shirt with Jocko's face?

[@iggy5895]

It's to promo the business and message of D.E.F.

[@selflessly101]

No he lost a bet and had to shave his head lol

[@scottgoodson1964]

The Marines taught me to learn by the steps. But that was for basics and fundamentals. Once you get to where you are doing the basics without thinking, then your mind has the freedom to either learn advanced concepts or to create new tactics and solutions. Almost impossible, though, to be advanced if you don't know the fundamentals.... unless you're a savant in a particular field.

[@felixgreive5782]

I believe in the battle - yes you have no time to consider, that is why it is soooooooo important to think before you start a battle.

[@gurudra]

Mechanical memorizing is happening in the name of education today which does not let human intellegence grow

[@jollyroger7172]

Gurudra - Emotional Health & Peace if you have a better way to learn medical terminology without memorization let me know

[@joshdrone1146]

Jocko, I please ask that you share your input and knowledge on our situation in the middle East. I know we took out a bad guy, that's an understatement. But there were thousands at his funeral. What should the US be prepared for in your opinion?

[@joshdrone1146]

@Fabian Brown So you know more than the Department of Defense? You should really recommend yourself to work for them and teach them what they're doing wrong.

[@Gigacat2137]

@@joshdrone1146 drone is a fitting name for you.

[@alf3071]

Truth, I made a huge mistake by going to a engineering university, felt like death, absolutely zero creative learning, I dropped out

[@Braindead154]

The mistake was dropping out!

[@tylerrook4204]

That kind of thinking isn’t for everybody, it’s pretty dry and boring hahaha

[@alf3071]

@@Braindead154 you should have come to some courses and see for yourself

[@aunmaqsood8227]

Everyone has there own preferred way of learning. It also depends on the type of engineering you did, if it was civil, I could probably understand. But the problem-solving aspect of engineering can really be fun at times.

[@Braindead154]

Alex Alfons been there, done that. Have a bachelors and masters in mechanical and systems engineering.

[@Kaluvin]

Enlightenment vs productivity, we need to balance the two but not necessarily to equalise them because different situation calls for a different mode of behaviour. There will be people out there who don't like to question things or don't like people asking questions and just value conformity and only following the rules which undermines creativity and ownership. These people tend to be more productive though but can't think outside the box. There are also people who read books and do nothing. Therefore, we need to balance the two.

[@LRRPFco52]

Gunny Poole did this with several USMC units after SEA, encouraging them to conduct all kinds of experiments with Task Organization, Tactics, Battle Drills, and learn from experimentation rather than just look for hard and fast rules from manuals.

[@jaybarnish77]

If the steps are too specific; more fundamental rules or ideas must be applied or abstracted as tools in a creative (or iterative) manner to solve whatever problem is at hand. Thank you for the upload

[@TheChipMcDonald]

Hah, interesting and true. As a guitar teacher for the past 30 years I've learned humans are amazingly variable. What you're really describing is "the moment when you must try something you don't have an exact plan for": improvising. Some people are naturally predisposed to have the right mindset, shifting *past* information out of the mind and relying on intuition. The Force. Some people literally can't fathom doing anything without a plan. In the sub-90 millisecond or so time domain "plans" can't be verbal, diagrams, or recall, so sublimating a tool set through repetition has to happen first. Creativity can happen at different time scales. Milliseconds vs. seconds vs. minutes. But the impetus is apparently rare, the *need* vanishing (at least in music) to create things. Some people think improvising a guitar solo is knowing exactly what note you're going to play from the next to last, as some think writing a song is a plug and play process. Different time scales, but creativity in both is the impetus to TRY something knowing chaos math will provide Surprising Options to deal with. Knowing all of the options beforehand is a foolish illusion or inhibiting. Guys play guitar like that (particularly on KZbin), presets for a known progression. Not the same as true improvising and letting the more powerful subconscious take over. I would think this applies to competitive fighting.

[@jdhsingi]

Focus on principles and themes more, less on techniques.

[@irisgonzalez-caulder4817]

Shawshank Redemption Jim DEAN less on your subtle techniques more on principles and themes I must and will focus on

[@robertmilkshake1013]

Solid advice that applies to many areas of life 👌

[@Numantino312]

it depends on personality of individual practitioner; yet they compliment one-another. skills/drill are like mechanical parts of a bike or car. one learns specific techniques/moves to get that particular item down. "today, i'm a fuel pump". the bike or car is the sum of well made parts. a skill/drill learner would be best brought around by knowing general objective, and also by picking up from a creative virtuoso with a reputation for being unpredictable. creativity or virtuosity is that sort of think-for-ones-self or unpredictability that makes an opponent think "where did that come from?" yet a creative virtuoso has to drill in specific skills they are weak in or simply don't favor. in context of soccer, a good coach sees a creative player yet spots the weaknesses like that "you need to work on your back kick" or "you need to do drills that build up your _______". a creative virtuoso enhances this by seeing the value of a new, drilled/skilled item in their repertoire or personal toolbox. in context of war or any team endeavor, it takes all types, and a good leader deploys people where they think people will perform best towards final goal objective. at the same time, casualties and transfers force the leader's/team's hands and that's where cross training and interchangability comes into play. thank you Jocko, Echo, and company!

[@TheBrendonKasa]

I actually have both. I learn from both types of learning. I like learning in steps but I can also appreciate to learn how and why something works. Then my brain automatically puts it into steps so I can use it again for later.

[@Yetipfote]

I want to be taught Jui Juitsu by Jocko. There's also a saying in boxing: "everybody looks good at the punching bag". So much for drillin' vs rollin'.

[@roastbeef441]

I find taking things in easily digestible modules, and breaking them done wrote memorization his very helpful.

[@1pointt21gW]

this is a really interesting conversation! Conceptual abstraction is extremely vital and Jocko you have a good instinct for vectoring abstraction into action and results. bravo!

[@vicjim3353]

I do respect all the army forces in the USA.. in all levels....I wish I can learn the right way to connect with it...

[@TheChipMcDonald]

People today also think "being creative" is connecting 2 processes together that they knew beforehand worked together. Paint by numbers is not being creative. It looks like a horse, or a guitar solo - but it's not folding space in the moment. A lot of guitar players are parading paint by numbers as an approach because "hey, look... YOU can paint a horse with minimal effort and talent!". Well, you knew what it was going to look like before you started, what's the fun in that? Chaotic math has to be involved in real creativity.

[@tiborkovacs5317]

A Good Simple but fundamental tool to help us Hear Speak Read Write Learn Inwardly Digest Knowledge Understanding Wisdom Keyword Tell Any Person Place Thing Quaility Idea/Subject State Action Object/Statement Question Desire is =Who What Where When Which Why How.

[@tylerrook4204]

Do what now

[@kaltonian]

So right jocko, Move away from the expected and do the unexpected, As Bruce would say "be water"

[@MortonGoldthwait]

Step by Step learning vs Creative Learning. The difference from writing an Avenge Sevenfold album vs. writing Swans' The Seer.

[@davebeech236]

At 4:50, the subtitles think he said "I do gay teens in weird places". LMAO!!!!

[@wheres_wolfie]

I had a hard time listening to this because I was always the divergent thinker, but that was beaten out of me. And now I realize the thing that I always had but tried to hard to get rid of, is desirable.

[@ironheadhooligan]

Love all your vids brotha...always kickin ass...let's get it!!!💪🏼🐷

[@irisgonzalez-caulder4817]

12:22 I didn't know what I wrote on a PC could start a brutal war war is not the answer only love could conquer hate don't punish me with brutality talk with me so you could see what's going on brother brother God bless you Jocko Willink you're a genius in the field of combat for helping mom and I we thank you 😊 Iceberg vs Pittsburg Roll vs Drill Ninja Blender making smoothie

[@MrAlexmiele8910]

Wrestled for 13 years. By senior year in HS I never had a plan going into a match. Just did what I did and let it flow. Unless i k we it was a fish, then i usually had a plan on how to pin them. Lol

[@irisgonzalez-caulder4817]

14:49 - 51 I have to BALLS " I have to dig " is what I wrote in December online Than days after from Haydee I get a gift 15:49 - 51 specialee (and mohamed ali ) at the beginning I DIDN'T KNOW 2 - 29 - 2020 now more than ever I KNOW of lee and ali

[@Steve-holm]

Thank You Much 😊

[@psyience3213]

@5:30 and that's it.

[@mikecodester]

Yes do jujitsu podcast soon.

[@scottstewart5194]

Is there a video where jocko explains what Discipline Equals Freedom is all about?

[@nikeetakhatri6700]

Standard operating procedures

[@MrRawnerves]

Bruce Lee explained it best, you learned by the numbers, 1,2,3 , first. Then when you mastered them, you have learned enough to them evolved the numbers and create new things. That’s how he invented Jeet-kune do.

[@automaticmonkTV]

Sage advice

[@thatomofolo452]

💪💪💪

[@felixgreive5782]

Guys you are really cool! I would love to sit down with you guys and talk. Yes we all need a free mind!

[@martiatact6306]

Well I have to think things step by step since i’m a beginner at jiu-jitsu.but i’m all for creative movement l later down the line when I get these submisions down. But my body hasn’t fully adapted yet.

[@_M_D_M_]

Thanks Jocko

[@UberTankred]

That's not a shirt with Jocko's pic on it. Jocko leaves an imprint on everything he stares at for too long. Hundreds of dead insurgents have this imprinted on their soul!

[@crash1998100]

He's talking about the difference between (N)Intuition / S(Sensing) way of learning from MBTI

[@8thlvlMage]

When the world is generalized into a few extremely broad categories, everything is bound to fall into one of them.

[@crash1998100]

@@8thlvlMage that's a great answer but I wouldn't argue against the utility of catigorizations, even the broad ones.

[@wojtekdziadosz3247]

great dudes

[@shawnhowe7311]

Which focus progress is slower Trying too tap others Or trying not to get got?

[@8thlvlMage]

Get got, and then ask them to show you how they did it. Obviously don't hand yourself over, but digging in only helps for so long.

[@jasondesignmedia7495]

This is me Lol step by step breakdown instruction book please Haha

[@chastinkekahuna9836]

Practice makes perfect but your skills have to be tested periodically.

[@Numantino312]

tested against the unknown

[@DEEPMMA]

love it i just put up jocko Q and A from his instagram live on my page from yesterday if anyone wants to check it out

[@R00KIEo87]

Ok see you explain about music you explaining about task you explaining about options Giving people the opportunity to conquer these task these tasks are generally preventing a person to achieve something meaning you have multiple choices in life what you can do but it is up to you to step forward and continue on with that life this is what he is trying to generate with his words unfortunately he's leading people on on to continue on with his story Every person is always been questioned on a day-to-day basis if you give this person a question he will surely answer it in his own time but he's using his mentality If you don't give a personal question the question cannot be answered because everybody has been operated at an early age for schools to question somebody's authority so questions are committed Lee been drilled in at an early age

[@littleripper312]

It's because these people never learnt to problem solve. Their whole life has been following instructions already laid out for them. Schools are all step by step and teach zero creativity. There's already instructions on how to get the desired results and all you do is memorize them. Sports and competitive hobbies are usually what teaches this skill. For example playing a song exactly as it's written down isn't creative but changing it maybe to another key or composing your own song is creative. You have to practice these things or you won't be able to do it.

[@qmiddleton1211]

A baker vs a chef

[@mikkopaarma951]

4:52 Jocko: I do guillotines in weird places Captions: I do GAY TEENS in weird places jocko you dirty dirty man ;)

[@andrabook8758]

hello, I have a problem I was wondering if anyone can help me through it. My computer is acting odd. Its not letting me go to websites. Specifically the network. But its only affecting me. None of the other ppl using this internet are affected. Just me. Specifically, its not letting me go to secure/encryption websites. As in I can go to Jocko podcast on Google but not on Firefox. Which is a shame bc Firefox is considered more secure. It also seems to convince my wifi encryption app that I don't have internet....even tho I obviously do. This has been happening off and on for weeks now. Is that a cyber attack or something? Bc if so the only point seems to be to annoy me... HELP! Can you do a podcast of cybersecurity and recommend how best to secure everything. Start at 0 level. This is not normal....and have I mentioned it is very annoying.

[@penguin7323]

this sounds like your wifi encryption app it may be that you need to tweak some settings. if you want to be secure, don't use google, use duckduckgo, but for yt give little information, use vpns. firefox is good for security. any more questions just reply!

[@andrabook8758]

@@penguin7323 no settings to tweak, that's why I liked it :) ...no one can say I messed up the settings and that's why, its happening.

[@thundergrace]

I gots the blues.... Nina Simone.

[@Backflipmarine]

Thumbs up but for me your interpretation of engineers is incorrect, engineers are often tasked with solving a problem that no-one has done before, we create solutions to these problems using creativity, intellect, and tools that we have at our disposal currently. Step by step solutions is more mathematician, where there's very limited creative mind or improvisation necessary.

[@ianalderson5133]

Day 20 of asking for Mike Maroney

[@thundergrace]

#theartofjuijitsu

[@selflessly101]

I stay right down the street John Jocko Wilink from the gym you train at. I can't afford it right now. But recently I really hurt someone who was a tweaker who attacked me I used an elbow that cut him pretty bad and bloody. I don't want to hurt someone like that ever again. Is there anyway I can clean the mats or something till I get a job to learn to grapple so I don't hurt like that again?

[@stub4488]

Standing by for orders.

[@chicks-on-the-loose]

Love that music analogy