How to Panelize PCBs in KiCAD

[@felixhaschke2980]

Very useful instruction. Remark: When you use rails or interconnecting pieces which dumped afterward, you should modify the mousebites, so that they only have holes to break it apart on the side where the actual PCB is attached. In this way, you directly get rid of the mousebites on the PCB, because they stay with the rail.

[@SeanHodgins]

I always attempt to panelize small boards in KiCad, but generally just give up due to time constraints and have the fab house(PCBWay) do it. Ill give it another go after watching this.

[@Dennis-hb8tw]

Loved, how excited and happy you were, when breaking the first panels!

[@ericlotze7724]

I love how you are not only making OSHW, but also using your platform to push FOSS, AND making tutorials for all of it! I hope that channels like your's, Louis Rossman's (more on R2R, but that and OS are a bit connected IMO), and LTT's mentioning of Open Source stuff recently, all really push the Open Source Hardware movement into the mainstream.

[@SmithyScotland]

Now glue them back together so you can pick and place them

[@pivoglotik]

That breaking reminds me of a similar process with board games. When a board game is unboxed, sometimes cardboard pieces are "panelized" in a similar fashion. It's a tactile joy to remove small cardboard pieces from a bigger cardboard piece which holds everything together. An example of such game is Wingspan.

[@DaMainDude]

I understood nothing and still watched the whole thing. I guess it’s a compliment to your video style haha

[@ericlotze7724]

Learned a new term today; "Mouse Bites". I love when technical terms get all cute like that ! Ah yes, well in figure b subsection 5 we showcase the *mouse bites*...

[@danmerillat]

Thanks for this, it's an incredibly useful tool that I hadn't heard of before. I was able to panelize even complex boards pretty quickly with it, very easy to get started with.

[@hojirick]

Love this channel so much. Thanks for showing us all of your work! I'll be watching on twitch soon!

[@shibbleswentworth]

when you get to the solder pasting I hope you can coin the term mouse poops.

[@shazam6274]

2 Pro tips: 1) offset mouse bites into the PCB so that the reaming "teeth" left after breaking it off is lower than the routed edge of the PCB. No need to cut, grind or sand them. 2) Use two V groves for rectangular PCBs: 2 on the sides where the dimensions are less critical and the other two edges can be routed for maximum dimensional accuracy. Best of both worlds.

[@lawrencemanning]

I hope we see the PnP machine actually doing some proper PnPing soon.

[@alanjrobertson]

Loving this series, Stephen! Been catching up on the back catalogue, great to see the progress! Minor query - I saw some nice silkscreen labels with round lozenge backgrounds on the index pcb you showed (eg at 2:39) - how did you do those in kicad?

[@warrenmcculloch4571]

I'd like to know how those silkscreen labels (inverse text) were created as well - they really do look good.

[@sh06un1s]

In case you're still wondering ... I was curious as well, so I did a search and it looks like a plugin called KiBuzzard was used. It started as an EAGLE plugin but was ported over to KiCad.

[@adamarmfield1069]

a pcb nibbler can be really useful, possibly a pneumatic one for you because even the fancy italian manual ones can be pretty tiring to use, leaves a cleaner edge too, I think there are also some considerations about the amount of flex you put on smd solder joints nearby when depanelling

[@evildeece]

Oh, you should also be able to increase the board density of your ring light boards by flipping alternate ones upside down and staggering them in the Y axis.

[@hornbaker]

They also need to be staggered so the board doesn’t have huge cuts that align in the x and y axis directions, because the board will sag during pick and place.

[@julianbinder2371]

it would make the breaking apart harder thou, because the edges don't align

[@UnexpectedMaker]

I currently only panellise designs that cant easily be done with v-score as they usually require a well considered layout, like your LED ring, but if my boards can be panellised with v-scores (like your v3 mobo) I find it much easier to just have the board house do that and add the edge rails etc. I'd super keen to start using KiKit, but it's not compatible with KiCAD v6, and looks like it wont be until KiCAD v7 comes out due to changes in the scripting support in v6, and there's just too much goodness in V6 to go back to using V5!

[@Graham_Wideman]

Hi Seon -- I don't think the Kicad project has delayed the Python API completion until v7. That appears to be a red herring, unless you can point to some news I haven't seen. Though I'd be a lot happier if there was an announcement about progress, as I'm awaiting this getting settled to move some of my scripts to 6.

[@UnexpectedMaker]

@@Graham_Wideman github.com/yaqwsx/KiKit/issues/85#issuecomment-883798437

[@tanvirmahmud1048]

Hey Bro Can U tell how I do the V score panelization in kicad? Any IDEA

[@HypherNet]

Having done this a few times and finding the vector editing tools in KiCAD to be extremely limited and frustrating, I find it really helpful to just export the board outline and do all the paneling in Illustrator, then import the Edge Cuts layer and just panelize the components on the board into the final panel.

[@pastasuta]

Oh my, such a great video Stephen!

[@gusbert]

As well as mouse bites you can use milled slots or V-grooves (but not good for curves!) to create the break points/lines. I guess what you use depends on how concerned you are about how the edges of the PCB look or how much post processing you are willing to do.

[@tanvirmahmud1048]

Can U tell How to do V score panelization in kicad..? Any idea

[@zlatanjakic7717]

You could add rullers on both rails and ship them with the board. Just an idea might be neat.

[@markmcgookin]

I think I've watched all of Stephen's videos over the last few weeks. Slightly out of order though... however, in doing so, I recognise the board test jig on the bench behind him from his other video in the garage!

[@randycarter2001]

I'm working on a design. It has connectors that hang over the edge. When I panelize it The overlap becomes a problem. I wind up making the panel much longer. With a 2x2 array can the left column be rotated 180° so the overhang mesh into dead space?

[@michaelschecker2716]

DIY making PCB Design is sooooo meditative ...... i like me doing it

[@jamescarter9147]

Look for a PCB nibbler which will cut out the PCB tabs so you get a cleaner edge than snapping. It also means you can get boards from out of a single square edge.

[@jspolsky]

Why mouse bites and not v-scores?

[@Elpollo973]

Well, for the ring PCBs it's easyier because he doesn't need to "add" straight edges but I fully agree for the motherboard V-Cuts allow stronger panel, easyier and cleaner separation. Also he used "double" mouse bites (with double drills lines) but it's not that good on many points ...

[@NavinF]

This is probably not a concern for Stephen, but it's worth mentioning: You can work around the "multiple designs per board cost more" rule of most PCB manufacturers by adding fake traces between mousebites. That way you can get 5 designs manufactured for dirt cheap and break them apart before powering on the unrelated boards.

[@stephen_hawes]

Mostly for dimensionality with the pogo pin jig! With mouse bites, we know all the spots on the edge without one are pretty bang-on dimensionally that we can use for locating the board, but with V-scores it might be off by a bit. But we could have done V-scores and just updated the jig! Both could have worked well.

[@Elpollo973]

​@@stephen_hawes well V-scoring tolerances are generally around +/-0.15mm and likely to be the same as routing/slotting so it shouldn't be a concern. (even for a test jig, believe me) The more problematic point to keep in mind with scoring is panel warping and rigidity that might get lost if too much scores are put on the less supported axis of a panel (because they are always from one side to another) It can become a real pain when dealing with really small PCBs (~4x3mm) on a 350x270mm panel ... had to shout on collegues last week to make them understand that I can't just slap 5000+ PCBs on a panel and throw it to our manufacturer :D But it's really not a common situation and both scoring and mouse bites are good for almost any low to medium designs ;)

[@warrenmcculloch4571]

@@stephen_hawes I'd like to know how those silkscreen labels (inverse text) were created as well - they really do look good.

[@abdurrahmanyaman4373]

Why don't you use v-cuts? Its more cleaner compare to "mouse bites" and your design has pretty straight edges.

[@Rahuldhebri]

Why you didn't use V-Cut for the motherboard panel, any specific reason?

[@godisgreat3638]

What about for rectangular pcb whose sides are rounded ? Which should i use v cut or stamp hole (only the edges of the pcb is curved

[@sammiller5509]

why didn't you rotate the ringlight at a 45? culd have saved some space, I'm just wondering.

[@Gotchau]

Hello. I wonder if there is a tool to accurately position components? type of arrangement of LEDs in a circle? Thx

[@petermuller608]

KiCAD supports phyton scripting

[@Gotchau]

@@petermuller608 Thanks, I'll try

[@meemo523]

Hi Stephen, this video is not in the "Pick and Place" playlist on YT. I was watching the videos in order with the playlist and got confused when in one video you mentioned that you were going to panelize PCBs and in the next video you mentioned that you already had.

[@rkfael-pcbdesign5712]

Great channel!!! Congratulations my friend 👏👏👏

[@mr.frozty5324]

how do you do the inverted silkscreen text? as far as I know, that feature is not implemented yet on KiCAD.

[@sh06un1s]

In case you're still wondering ... I was curious as well, so I did a search and it looks like a plugin called KiBuzzard was used. It started as an EAGLE plugin but was ported over to KiCad.

[@tanvirmahmud1048]

How I do V score type panelization in kicad. Any Idea

[@petermuller608]

Just add a line in the cut layer

[@tanvirmahmud1048]

@@petermuller608 make A video over it bro!😅

[@petermuller608]

@@tanvirmahmud1048 there's really not much video to do ^^ just draw a line on a layer like Eco1.User and export it with name like my-board.v-cut.gbr

[@tanvirmahmud1048]

If U make a video then it just not only help me but also those who are new in kicad. Because U know there are no video over how to panelize pcb in V-score mathord in kicad. So please. I think It took only 10-15 minutes in ur life but it help a millon of noob like me who are new in kicad

[@sgtjasper1]

I need help with making a very simple pcb but i have no idea how to start the PCB

[@lonewulf0328]

do you just trim the excess off the mouse bites with some side cutters after?

[@petermuller608]

I would suggest investing in a machine like Hektor for removing mouse bites

[@justingort1]

A lot of the time the mouse bites are sanded off in the de-penalization step. especially with rounded pcbs. this is done to make sure the pcbs fit as the bites can break a bit randomly. so its better to sand them away or down.

[@petermuller608]

While this is possible, I have never seen it done in practice. Just recessing the mouse bits is much easier. Moreover sanding FR4 is really hazardous

[@justingort1]

@@petermuller608 I do agree with that. And yea I isn't very good for your health. Our company has a special room just for the sanding and coating of pcbs. And we do try to avoid it. But sometimes tolerances are tight and the milling is too rough so we have to make them fit. It's also done to not damage the cases or coats. FR4 can have very sharp edges in these areas. It is just a quick and easy way to get things nice. But you do need a well ventilated area to do it in.

[@fastbike9845]

So, diptrace does the panelisation automatically. Just a few clicks, this seems to be a very many process.

[@jurgenaddicks1634]

I learned a lot, thank you!

[@p07gbar]

Presumably when one is joining a throw away bit with a useful bit, one just wants a single line of holes so it always snaps cleanly, not sometimes leaving a little 1mm chunk of board? Or am I missing some magic?

[@hornbaker]

Need to recess the string of holes so the ragged edge is recessed from the edge of the board.

[@RixtronixLAB]

Cool video, keep it up, thanks :)

[@tanvirmahmud1048]

Now The time was how to convert a regular home oven to reflow oven.there are some good open source project. But they are not clear on a point. That was ' how to upload that firmware on the microcontroller! So I thik U would make a video over that topic!

[@sudheerkumar5966]

Very good

[@sjetmand]

HOW in 2022 is panelization in KiCad such a chore. FWIW, EasyEDA has it built in, mouse-bites or v-cut. Choose rows, columns, done.

[@tanvirmahmud1048]

Thank U brother.

[@wingnut2893]

I'm sure now that I was born some 50 years too early... I used to repair Philips K11 an K12 TC-chassis when I was not even twenty years old.....

[@Mtaalas]

KiCad's great, but panelizing is still way too labour intensive wihtout that KiKit. In perfect world, panelizing is an hierarchical, parametric abstraction of your PCB where you can adjust the PCB AFTER the fact and panel just updates. Mouse-bites and everything else should be generated based on rules and updated en mass, no need for manual work. And it should be completely integrated with the PCB software, not just a script. Then you can even do full panel testing stuff like route an edge connector to the PANEL edge, route bunch of tracks trough the panel part to each individual PCB and define all that as separate layer in your hierarchy such that even if you change the PCB, panel updates if possible. It should be that powerful :)

[@Skibszilla]

@2:22 lol Why are you holding onto your drink and talking to the camera?

[@arjayUU]

Very hard to recognize what you exactly try to point out from the fast cuts and timelapsing..

[@joeypoortman3312]

Good instructions to start panelizing, but why pcbway ?? They are so expensive compared to JLC !

[@MichaelTeeuw]

Because they are the channel sponsor.

[@joeypoortman3312]

@@MichaelTeeuw He could also get a JLCPCB sponsored video and not promote a company that at its lowest costs 10 dollars more ...

[@olivercouch1651]

Up front cost isn't everything.

[@WoolseyCole]

Hell yea

[@olivercouch1651]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/e3KTe5Rpj899bK8 ^Panel flex is something to watch out for in panelisation, particularly if not doing any cross bracing on the ends

[@aaronrodriguez8e680]

Cool

[@AdityaMehendale]

Hit 'like' if your OCD got triggered because the circular PCBs were not 45-degree rotated for max-fill. ;)

[@_ZERgyt_]

Yeah ... I like the way it is done in easyeda better.

[@52thephotoshop]

i have no idea why PCB software just ignore the last 30 years of CAD software

[@dominiquevalantin]

OMG 😱 why are you touching the boards and soldering pads with your bare fingers ?!? I hope you clean the boards before depositing solder paste 😅

[@joshsmithbuilds2158]

Noiceee

[@CLGilbert]

This video is way too fast. There is a verbal explanation, then when the demonstration is given its done at 10x speed and I can't see anything. I guess I could slow it down but why was it sped up like this!?

[@CigerPro]

There is no "how to". Just "I did it" video.

[@billionairemaker]

Please stop the goblins and ghouls thing. I really enjoy your vidoes, but that phrase really isnt why i watch.