Steve McIntosh on Student Protests of the Israel-Hamas War

Steve reflects on the campus protests, observing the interplay between the protestors' mixed motivations, which include both worldcentric morality and ethnocentric morality. He discusses how the protests provide a window into the current state of the progressive postmodern worldview overall. He then concludes by observing that the liberation of the Palestinian people ultimately requires an embrace of nonviolent resistance, as exemplified by the successful resistance movements lead by Gandhi and MLK. However, as long as Hamas remains in the picture, such a nonviolent path to liberation will be stymied.
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[@rachelerynkalish2207]

Steve thanks for weighing in on the world's most intractable conflict. Have spent decades in this space, trying to bring an integral voice to this most searing situation. Since October 7th things much more painful and polarized. Hopefully with all of this coming to light in the mainstream (those of us working in the space have been dealing with this for a very long time)...your articulation should help us move toward higher ground. Happy to say there are a few Gazan Gandhi's appearing who are courageously speaking out. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@AAron-hj5yl]

Remarkable analysis. An incredibly complex phenomenon delivered as an easily-followable narrative. Also threads the incredibly narrow needle of being emotionally distant enough to see the hypocrisy and folly of the behavior of people on all sides of the cultural divide, while simultaneously emotionally understanding enough to be able to sympathize with the actions and even motives of those same characters/movements.

[@TimFreke1]

Very insightful Steve

[@margoyoder5657]

... thank you... brilliant... agree...

[@walkerun]

Hey Steve, I'd love to hear how you would seek to walk back the bubbling tension of the dissident right / the rising nationalist sentiment. The Next Civil War author Stephen Marche has had some very grounded convos with Andrew Yang and other respectable voices that have shifted my perspective on the plausibility of something like this happening. I also recommend digging into James Pogue's work as well, he is covering the new right better than anyone I have seen. Thanks!

[@eneldia85]

I am wondering what you think about Zionism.

[@noelleimparato]

The Palestinians have a Mandala in their midst, except that he was thrown in Israel's prison years ago.

[@StephenMcIntosh]

Being imprisoned didn’t stop Nelson Mandela from leading a successful nonviolent liberation movement.

[@bismarkbizmark5639]

Mass intentional starvation, and wholesale indiscriminate bombing in a densely populated area, is not "fighting a war against a terrorist entity." It’s mass murder. In other words, it's terrorism, just on a much larger scale than Hamas could hope to accomplish. If Israel had integrity and courage, their strategy against Hamas would be defined by a ground invasion where they only shoot at those who shoot back. But i suppose if humanitarian aid were allowed in any significant quantity, then Hamas could make weapons from anesthetic, and that's why children have to be amputated without it. I see the nightmare in Palestine/Israel as, more than any other single essential thing, extreme pathological expressions of traditionalism. Zionism is an inherently violent, tribalistic ideology, and when it landed in Palestine, the people there predictably felt threatened (Zionism requiring mass forced displacement to succeed) and responded with a violent, tribalistic ideology of their own. That's been happening ever since. The refusal by many to regard the viewpoint of the student protesters as politically valid is also at its most basic level pathological ethnocentrism: those operating in a traditional worldview emotionally include Israel within their perceived tribe, and cannot see its faults. One thing that endows the protests with legitimacy is that Israel is never held to account. They do anything they want, and those with power, and the American majority, regard them as blameless. Yet the student protesters, and a few others, call murder by its proper name.

[@alansteeler]

Mostly agree, but I think you're overstating the amount of ethnocentric elements and the lack of nonviolence among the protesters. The protesters I've spoken to have overwhelmingly denounced Hamas. Various Jews who've participated in the protests have reported little to no antisemitism inside most of the encampments. There has been extensive training in nonviolence among some of the campus protest movements, but police and counter-protesters (e.g. UCLA) have attacked them violently regardless.The students (and supporting professors, et al.)are protesting war crimes, including the war crimes of Hamas. There will always be extremists advocating violence on the continuum of activists, as was the case in the civil rights movement during the MLK and the anti-Vietnam War protests (The US provides billions of dollars of aid to Israel, so the situation vis-a-vis the Uighurs is quite different, altho it does illustrate how the worldcentric view doesn't treat ethnic groups equally)

[@StephenMcIntosh]

I appreciate your thoughtful comment. But the protestors' "extensive training in nonviolence” apparently did not include nonviolent communication, or they wouldn’t be prominently calling for “global intifada” and “decolonization.” This widespread spirit of militancy among the protestors is clearly intended to be threatening. And it is this militantly threatening stance that will probably get Trump elected.

[@tsafriror]

Like the the comment below- I haven't heard "non nonviolence" voices or even calling for peace from those groups. I find it surprising and different from past movements.

[@alansteeler]

@@StephenMcIntosh My daughter is, as she characterizes herself, an anti-war crimes (including Hamas war crimes) protester calling for a cease fire and peace. (Her class voted her Most Likely to win the Nobel Peace Prize.) Dozens of Jews who've joined the encampments have encountered, as I said, little or no antisemitism. I agree that "externalities," such as Trump's election and other complexities, have not been adequately taken into consideration -- and that is what I tell her and her friends. Things are almost always more complex than people realize.

[@sunnymitra6372]

@@alansteeler Why do want to call for Ceasefire which Hamas also wants???? Who benefits from Ceasefire the most???? How do you stop Hamas after the Ceasefire??? Who gonna convince Palestinians not to support Hamas and condemn the Barbaric massacres of oct 7th

[@anthealer]

I would recommend listening to the 2 episodes on Hamas from the podcast “let’s talk Palestine” to get a broader view of the origin of this group and their role today. The UN considers them a legitimate political party and not a terrorist organization.

[@StephenMcIntosh]

Legitimate political parties don’t use rape as a weapon of war.

[@stephaniepantera]

The UN also just nominated Saudi Arabia to run the women’s rights and gender equality council 😂

[@sunnymitra6372]

UN also mourned for Raisi who is also known as Butcher of Tehran

[@bcforn64]

My god. This right here why there is a sizable portion of the population are against academics. This talk is full of academic buzz words. It does a good job breaking very complex historical issues into the lens of culture, and the history of said cultures, but fails to really reveal anything. Yes, there is a strong counter-cultute in the US. Yes, it often flights against "The system" regardless if the "The system" is actually the issue. I'd say often these counter protestors are kept in check by the public at large, but in this case the sentiment against the establishment they espouse is shared by a sizable portion of the general public. Also it is more than holding the West, and its allies to a higher standard. The west, and it's allies are the biggest advocates of international law, and the UN. I'd say criticism of this conflict goes further than simple moral grandstanding, and to the heart of the legitimacy of international law. Especially at a time when the unipolarity of the West is in decline.

[@bcforn64]

Also, Israel is an apartheid ethno state. Criticizing the protestors as the ones pursuing an ethnic centrism while not addressing the elephant in the room is quite dishonest. The sad part is I'm not sure if the speaker acknowledges that Israel is an apartheid state, or is trying to avoid the topic. Then he mentions Dr. Martin Luther King who is quoted as "beware of the white moderate." If white moderates don't want to give the extremists legitimacy, they themselves have to be better. BTW. I condemn Hamas, and don't think that just because the Israeli government is on a terrible path, that I'm in support of it's opposition.

[@rachelerynkalish2207]

@@bcforn64 That's because it's not...apartheid was one government divided into different tiers. Israel, the West Bank and Gaza are three different governing structures.

[@user-yn1ni5xs2g]

Israel-palestinian war that is a more correct term

[@michaelbanyai4685]

How long can one speak about elite delusions?

[@Alex-vk9rx]

Just saying "postmodern" over and over doesnt really explain anything.

[@CultureDevelops]

For a discussion of the origins and ongoing emergence of the progressive postmodern worldview, have a look at Steve McIntosh’s book Developmental Politics: www.amazon.com/Developmental-Politics-America-Better-Version/dp/1557789428/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2UG07L7DN3X7M&keywords=developmental+politics&qid=1564423446&s=gateway&sprefix=Developmental+Pol%2Cstripbooks%2C164&sr=8-2 We trust you’ll find it “explanatory."