Should You Replevin Your Flivver?

A question we've been asking now for a hundred years.
www.lehtoslaw.com

[@tayzonday]

Should I WHAT? 🤔🤷‍♂️

[@apocalypticpioneers2116]

You heard the man

[@mrdeleted]

Replevin your Chocolate Rain! 🍫 ☔️

[@teddyboragina6437]

there's a name I've not heard in a long time. (seriously, glad to see you seem to be doing good)

[@hannamariewilson]

Omg omg omg

[@rainbowbunchie8237]

I've found you below many videos over the last few years. Similar tastes I guess.

[@12799MaDeuce]

Just remember to smooth out the dinglepop with a bunch of schleem first

[@PasleyAviationPhotography]

I didn't think Steve's crowd would be hip enough to get a R&M reference but here we are lol

[@thevashfan12392]

@@PasleyAviationPhotography just remember the the plubus and grumbo are chipped away until you have a regular plumbus

[@ethanhoward389]

And then a shlammi shows and rubs it....and spits on it

[@bradley-eblesisor]

I love it, but, do what?🤣

[@peteranon8455]

They cut the fleep, there are several hizards in the way.

[@genuinedickies99]

you can still get a citation for bootlegging alcohol in dry counties if you are transporting too much. as I recall when I was growing up in Northwest Arkansas it was one fifth of liquor or one case of beer per adult in the vehicle. so if you had two cases of beer and you were the only occupant of the vehicle you could get a citation for bootlegging. it wasn't widely enforced, I remember picking up a half gallon of whiskey from the drive-thru liquor store for my mother because she gave me a note when I was 16. yes, they knew my mother so well at the liquor store that she called ahead, told them that she was sending me there with a note, and they sold me a half gallon of whiskey when I was 16 years old to bring back to my mother. Y'all come back now, y'hear?

[@craigwiess1656]

Two of my uncles used to bootleg into dry counties. That was late 50s early 60s.

[@kdavis1492]

@@craigwiess1656 Haven't heard of it lately, but KS Alcohol Beverage Control officers would arrest KS drivers, for bringing to KS, liquor bought in KCMO.

[@marcusmcbean164]

So true, it happened to me in Kentucky in 1973 when I was traveling to visit family and I brought 5 cases of Strohs beer.

[@genuinedickies99]

@@marcusmcbean164 This was in the 90's.

[@ThioJoe]

Top 10 Questions Science Still Hasn't Answered

[@keithe2150]

Good to see you out and about I love your channel also

[@boataxe4605]

It’s right up there with the chicken or the egg!

[@toriless]

Hmmm? You seem familiar? Computers?? I think, not the Antenna guy.

[@pws3rd170]

Cut it out, Buzzfeed will make a part 73 to that series

[@WilliamPorygon]

Replevin, flivver, interpleader... this show is really ameliorating my lexicon.

[@xenuburger7924]

I knew of a man who used gasoline with ethanol in his Model T all the time. One day it just up and died. Cirrhosis of the flivver!

[@phred196]

I remember reading an old science fiction story where the characters traveled in a fliver. I assumed that this was a made-up science fiction term. Thank you Steve for educating me by showing me that what I thought of as the future was actually the past.

[@felderup]

wait till you run into mufti. if they still call it that these days, maybe you already have.

[@JennyEverywhere]

Probably a Heinlein story. He used that word fairly often. And mufti.

[@felderup]

@@JennyEverywhere that's where i got it, it's a very odd word, a surprising word, except, instead of realising something is biting you while you're on the toilet, it's a word that sticks in your mind that will get you looked at funny if you say it in a crowd.

[@lorka42]

I believe I read that same book lol I thought the same.

[@thewalkingcrow8946]

I was gonna comment it was probably Heinlein but someone beat me to it.

[@scottbarron1427]

I'm in the trades, and we have used Detinue and Replevin a few times. Detinue we've used to recover debts involving labor, where there was no property to recover, and they have no money to pay. The court will award us, something of value that they own. Replevin, we've used to get our equipment or goods back. Most of the time when we have to file a small claim, we use an affidavit judgement. Most people see the court date and don't file an intent to defend, not realizing that unless they do, there's no trial, and we always win when the judge looks at it in chambers. 99% of the time, when we sue, when they get served, they just mail a check. One time we spent about $1200.00 suing a guy for 350 bucks. Pissed us off and got us into GP (general principal) territory. He's operating under the premise "It's only 350 bucks.., they're not going to shut down for a day, send 2 guys to court and hire an attorney"....uh yeah we are..... Got our 350 bucks.

[@Bob-Lob-Law]

An entire week’s worth of word of the day

[@Bobs-Wrigles5555]

Ben hiding his face behind and from Low Flying Owls, Steve's RHS

[@driptcg]

Im sorry i laughed so hard when he said "he was stopped by cops while trying to transport licor in his fliver" the whole dialogue sounded like a Dr Seuss book

[@Mr_Welch]

It's a perfectly cromulant word

[@mattbosley3531]

I knew what a flivver was but I had never heard the term replevin before. Thanks for the explanation.

[@toddlenard7602]

I myself am 55 years old. My dad is in his 80s and I remember him always calling an old car of flivver. When I use that terminology today I get people look at me like I'm absolutely insane or that I have two heads. Thanks Steve for clearing this up and letting everyone know that I am somewhat sane. Much respect on all the books I had no idea that you were such an accomplished author.

[@riverraisin1]

The Kingsford, Michigan high school sports teams are called the Flivvers, due to Henry Ford establishing a plant in the 1920's in that area.

[@lharchmage6908]

I'm the same age and Pop is in his eighties and had no clue. Might be regional.

[@toddlenard7602]

@@lharchmage6908 well if it helps you any we were from Louisiana

[@jimnotter6046]

Being regarded as "somewhat sane," sounds like a good goal.

[@DoubleDoubleWithOnions]

My dad would say flivver also, now I have to go to the store and pick up some olio.

[@fourbanger]

My 1918 Model T is a flivver. If I was to use it for transporting liquor...the liquor would have aged a lot more by the time it arrived to its destination. Interesting story. The more things change, the more they stay the same. William probably forgot to provide the proper hand signal prior to making a turn....

[@vanitamann7985]

"Replevining your flivver sounds like something you shouldn't be doing in mixed company or maybe outside the house." lol! Too funny! Thank you so much for sharing this video.....Have a great day!

[@darrylbarker505]

😯❗️

[@RogaineForEwoks]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I was told I'd go blind for doing that.

[@boataxe4605]

@@RogaineForEwoks And I was told that I’d get hairy palms!

[@russlehman2070]

Nothing wrong with replevening the old flivver, as long as you do it in private, or in the presence of consenting adults.

[@RogaineForEwoks]

@@russlehman2070 You can literally get cancer if you don't so... You kinda have to. For your own health. Exercise or replevening, you gonna do one.

[@hadtopicausername]

As a translator, this is the stuff of nightmares. Not only figuring out what the heck the terminology means, but also finding a suitably old fashioned translation.

[@toriless]

You need a real life Hoshi Sato to translate.

[@idristaylor5093]

Ben behind the low flying owl sign.

[@larrymills8527]

look like there were 2 today

[@jamesodell3064]

Currently the Detroit Institute of Arts is in possession of a very expensive painting that two parties claim ownership of. The courts have ordered the DIA to not return the painting until they rule on the ownership.

[@abrahamchapman]

As a historian and prolific writer, Steve could search for descendants to discover if any of them have an records or memories of William's endeavor to replevin his flivver, dig through old court archives to find the original proceedings, and then deduct all of this research as business expenses incurred during the writing process of Steve Lehto's next published work, Armed Robbery Under the Color of Law: The Evolution of Civil Asset Forfeiture in American History, credit to Don, and shout-out to Letho's Law most handsome viewer Abraham.

[@GeckoHiker]

I saw what you did there. Clearly, you are an original swell guy. 😊

[@dantepper7613]

@@GeckoHiker Abraham might just be on to something. Armed Robbery Under the Color of Law: The Evolution of Civil Asset Forfeiture in American History sounds like the kind of book most of Steve's viewers would look forward to purchasing. I really hope that Steve publishes such a book. I know that I would buy it!

[@dantepper7613]

I really hope that Steve writes Armed Robbery Under the Color of Law: The Evolution of Civil Asset Forfeiture in American History, it would be an amazing read

[@RobDeHaven]

Steve this got me thinking. You said it didn’t matter if you understood if it was a replevin, interpleader, or claim and delivery. As someone that has had a few civil legal issues lately, I’ve learned a few things. It has been beneficial for me to understand the legal situation so I can better gather information to support my claim and help the lawyer do their job more effectively. It also has saved me money because it reduced the amount of time I had to speak or confer with my lawyer. We all know lawyers charge by the minute and time is money. Great story and I enjoy these historical stories.

[@opuscat999]

My doctor had me on Replevin for six months!!!

[@michaelrubbo7467]

The only high school in Kingsford, MI, has a sports mascot called the "Flivver"; which is also the name of the local sports team: the Kingsford Flivvers. Flivvers were locally understood as a convertible style, Model A Ford. (Steve mentioned any old type car of this time period). Kingsford MI was also the home of the "wood" for early Ford cars - in a Ford plant located there. That plant also built wood gliders for the US military in WWII.

[@riverraisin1]

Don't forget Kingsford charcoal. E.G. Kingsford was Henry Ford's cousin-in-law.

[@RobertWGreaves]

“Replevin all Flivver”, this is my new mantra to declare civil asset forfeiture unconstitutional.

[@jonnygunn6259]

Not only do I not mind that you did an older story, I’ve never laughed so much at one of your stories! I love it. Awesome job!

[@apocalypticpioneers2116]

Did Steve have a stroke making the title of this video? I'm concerned

[@brianyoung9014]

I used to work for a man that had run moon shine during prohibition in Tennessee, the story's he told were great.

[@jeepien]

Thanks for the valuable info! I had been trying to reflivven my plever without success, and you've shown me why. Should be a piece of cake now.

[@ericemmons3040]

Just make sure you don't reflivven your plover; I've heard plovers don't like that sort of thing. . .

[@theCodyReeder]

Reading the title, I thought I was in a dream for second.

[@GeorgeWMays]

Thank goodness that an attorney's job is the eschew obfuscation.

[@IowaKim]

My biggest problem with civil asset forfeiture is that the enforcer keeps the spoils, thus making them corrupt. If the spoils were required to be given to a 3rd party (let's say a charity of the perp's choice) then the enforcer has no incentive to overstep their bounds. I suppose then charities might then have the incentive, and thus make them corrupt, but at least it is a step away from the enforcer.

[@FractalPrism.]

CAF is basically High Seas Piracy done under The Color Of The Law sending it to a charity would still allow outright theft of civilian property and not fix the problem. its the pretext used for the taking which is the core problem the cops also being incentivized as they get to keep the proceeds of that theft makes the problem worse. CAF must always be illegal.

[@IowaKim]

@@FractalPrism. there is another nuance to your argument-fines/penalties imposed by gov't entities such as EPA which also gain from the spoils. They state those moneys go to environmental protection, but this just feeds the beast until it becomes corrupted. Similar for all other entities that have a fine/penalty system.

[@timothysworld1028]

The Model T was colloquially known as the "Tin Lizzie", "Leaping Lena" or "flivver".

[@steveshattah]

Or the original found on road dead.

[@davidpond2659]

I had Civil asset forfeiture without breaking any laws or committing any Crimes. I owned ten antique firetrucks stored on my parents property in barns. My mother was taken by probate and a guardian was installed. we provided titles to the guardian yet she would not allow us to have our vehicles. We tried for a year to get our vehicles back. She ultimately decided that we did not deserve to have our titled vehicles back. Without telling us she had a towing company come get them. In Ohio there is a law that states from private property there needs to be a sherriffs order to tow private vehicles or be in a two away zone. Neither of these were the case. We went to the tow company as soon as we found out that our vehicles were removed and they wanted 75,000 dollars for the removal and storage of the vehicles. We hired an attorney and he filed a repevlin lawsuit and ultimately even though we provided all the titles and affidavits and pictures not only of our trucks but pictures of the trucks on the tow companies properties, the judge dismissed our case stating that the titles were not enough to show proof of ownership. Were just scratching our head

[@EDBybee]

Poor, poor William. 😢 Great fun Steve. Thanks for sharing this bit of prohibition legal history.

[@workingfolk]

I'm proud to say that per 231 Pa. Code Rule 1071, we in the Keystone State have a right to replevin.

[@georgehampton7579]

What is the difference between an orange? A bicycle because a vest has no sleeves! 😁✌️

[@olabergvall3154]

Great fun, and educational as always! I can see how you could not resist making a video when the title writes itself like this. Heck, if you hadn't, I might have started my own YT channel for that sole purpose.

[@MrGlen6911]

You had way to much fun with this and that made it a great video its always great to not only learn history. Even more so when the one explaining the history is having so much fun. Great video

[@j.a.4360]

In Virginia it can be a felony fraudulent conversion of collateralized property.

[@JennyEverywhere]

The sci-fi book "Trade Secret" by Steve Miller and Sharon Lee, a favorite of mine, features a central MacGuffin in the form of a _Writ of Replevin._ It's a lot of fun.

[@ostlandr]

Have to check that out!

[@boataxe4605]

Speaking of prohibition, I believe that the reason why a constitutional amendment was required to outlaw alcohol (and another to make it legal again) was that the lawmakers at the time correctly read the 10th amendment and realized that they couldn’t simply pass a federal law outlawing alcohol,since the constitution says nothing about drugs. This leads me to believe that all federal drug laws are unconstitutional. If an amendment was required for one drug it should have been required for all of the other ones. What do you think Steve?

[@richarddaugherty8583]

I knew what a flivver is, but hadn't heard of replevin! Thanks for the blast from the past!

[@vanitamann7985]

I've have had a couple of flivvers I haven't replevinned myself. Seriously, this was an interesting story.

[@noahhastings6145]

You should make a blooper channel called Lehto's Flaw. And a cooking channel called Lehto's Slaw. And a carpentry channel called Lehto's Saw. And a piloting channel called Lehto's Yaw. And a martial arts channel called Lehto's Claw. And maybe a lingerie channel called Lehto's Bra.

[@1954Gregb]

Lol

[@threadtapwhisperer5136]

As a person that regularly has a mental spazz and comments like I do, I applaud the fervor with which your Vocabularian lexicograohical insight increased my inane knowledge of punnage. Tis a rare thing, the nonsensical but relative comment. Hats off to you, sir or madam!

[@billyjoejimbob75]

If he does things like sushi, would that be Lehto's Raw, or would that already be covered on the cooking channel?

[@michaelmoorrees3585]

In that general time frame, not only was "Prohibition" enacted, but also amendments for income tax, and giving women the right to vote. Judge those amendments as you will ! 🤔

[@baronblansit]

I do not know why this makes me laugh. Thank you for the information.

[@tomg6214]

I owned a Ford Flivver er… Pinto! Great story, love the history and new vocabulary!!!

[@ryankelly369]

1:20 This is the problem with criminal assett forfeiture; it doesn't work in practice the way you describe it, Steve. In any accusation, due process dictates that the burden of proof is on the accuser. Asset forfeiture -- civil or criminal -- should be no different. Alas, there is virtually no effort in most jurisdictions to even pretend that due process is a thing in asset forfeiture.

[@CreeperOnYourHouse]

The title reminds of that case I believe out of Idaho, where a former drug user had his flivver, a range rover he bought with an inheritance, claimed under the accusation he was using it to deal l drugs with no basis and no (new) criminal charges. He spend years trying to replevin his flivver and the state kept filling appeal after appeal to keep it to the point of absurdity. He should have been able to replevin his flivver, but he was not allowed until the Supreme Court of the state stepped in.

[@GreenAppelPie]

More of these olde stories please 🙏

[@contrawise]

I have a hunch the only reason that story made the paper was because of the poetic qualities of the headline. Editors **LOVE** clever headlines! Because, so do readers!

[@felsinferguson1125]

Back in the REALLY back in the day, a flivver was one of a few names for a class of really light-duty cart, usually pulled by a single horse/pony, sometimes by a large enough dog.

[@timothyodonnell8591]

The somewhat archane legal terminology discussed in this video reminds me of a California statute that, in its entirety, states, "Superfluity does not vitiate." Ca. Civ. Code § 3537. It's one of California's maxims of jurisprudence.

[@finalfantasy50]

it means that excessive statements, witnesses etc does not invalidate the legal argument

[@IMRROcom]

What the Ai gives me :) Thank you for the clarification. "Replevin" is indeed a legal action that can be used to recover personal property that has been wrongfully taken or detained by someone else. The term "Flivver" was used in the early 20th century to refer to a cheap, small car, so "Replevin Your Flivver" might have been a phrase used in the past to refer to the legal action of recovering a wrongfully taken car. However, it's important to note that language and legal terminology evolve over time, and some phrases or terms that were commonly used in the past may no longer be in use or may have different meanings today. It's always important to consult with a legal professional to understand the specific terminology and legal actions that apply to your situation.

[@fokendikhed]

lovely word...much like defenestrate...I'm sure you would protest your defenestration with the utmost care and diligence.

[@rexturbo3743]

Grew up in Kingsford MI in the UP-Home of the Flivvers!

[@EdDale44135]

Same as it ever was. When his property was taken by the local police, and he got a legal right to have it back, the local police gave it to the federal government. Sounds like civil asset forfeiture actions to me.

[@scotcoon1186]

Nebraska is one of the 4 States that does not allow civil asset for a future. But our alcohol laws are still so convoluted it is nearly impossible to haul a beer home from the grocery store legally.

[@trainliker100]

Archaic terms also become an issue in reading patents and the U.S. Constitution. In either case, if reading something isn't clear as it stands in "plain language" (the first step), then you would find out what a term meant at the time originally written. If this is difficult, then more research is needed to determine how the term was typically used at the time. A fine example is in the 2nd Amendment in the Constitution Some argue that "well regulated" means the government is supposed to regulate the ownership of arms. To use a term of the verse I once heard a judge use, "To inject a right of the federal government into a set of rights to be free of the federal government would seem to make strange bedfellows." So, what did "well regulated" mean in 1787? It meant "in working order" like a "well regulated clock" or even a "well regulated mind." In the case of "a militia" (and note that it is not "the" militia which is another important detail) it would mean at least reasonably well equipped and able to function in some reasonably orderly manner. The idea being that the "plain language" interpretation can be incorrect in some cases. And while you might think that for patents it doesn't matter much since they expire fairly quickly so you might not expect to find archaic words, there is the issue of looking at patents far back for prior art research.

[@CharacterMatterz]

Prohibition is repugnant in a free society. Plants, animals, distillates and people cannot be prohibited amongst free men...

[@zoefaith120]

This may be the best in depth video of all time..... Steve went old school with terms and facts...

[@TheBrokenLife]

Yes. Unconditionally.

[@TheRealScooterGuy]

Steve can never resist a car story that has legal aspects mixed in. Throw in some asset forfeiture and it's a slam dunk.

[@AndrewFremantle]

I find it fascinating how a mere 100 years in a reasonably stable environment (No genocides or such) can render a newspaper headline basically incomprehensible.

[@FatManWalking18]

we went through a series Replevin motions last summer for a pending court case. total PITA but it was the only way to get our house keys returned from the contractor involved.

[@fbrep]

The Benjamin is behind the right corner of the yellow, low flying owls sign.

[@andrewharrison1194]

Any chance of a follow up story on this? Maybe he got his flivver and could pickle his liver when prohibition ended?

[@ericemmons3040]

Well, I guess, if he wanted to wait 12 years and the flivver was still in driveable shape at that time. . .

[@marcfruchtman9473]

Very nice... great to hear that you write books and you are an historian as well!

[@patrickdurham8393]

My dad had an old 60 Chevy truck he called Flivver. I learned to drive in it and i can drive anything now!

[@peterfitzpatrick7032]

Seizure of flivver to protect citizens' liver... 😅👏 We need to bring back these old words/phrases... 🤔

[@josephwisniewski3673]

The OED says flivver is "Of obscure origin." and cites the earliest known use in 1910.

[@robertprochko6331]

I took my driving test in a Flivver, a 1919 coupé, and have always had at least one in my garage for the past fifty years.

[@jcavenagh]

Ahhh...the anicent and honorable writs in replevin and detinue. These bring me back to my early legal career circa 1990.

[@johnreseigh4868]

I haven’t heard the term “replevin” since property law class.

[@rob613]

What a funny name for a judge, "Judge Yesterday"

[@thatjeff7550]

Strange what words stay with us. "Replevin" has fallen by the wayside but "chattel" is still in usage, at least in the legal realm.

[@unbreakable7633]

In TN, the State Constitution permits criminal asset forfeitures but implicitly outlaws civil asset forfeiture. The courts of the State have refused to read this explicit provision as an implicit outlawing of civil forfeitures despite the fact that the State Constitution was written in 1791, not long after the Revolution and the gripes of the colonists about civil forfeiture being a cause of the break with Great Britain.

[@patrickflohe7427]

Never heard of a “Flivver”, but I’m in the middle of a Replevin case in Washington, right now. I never heard that term either, until this case.

[@hughbo52]

Partial stories keeps 'em coming back.

[@davidyoder562]

Actually, the interpleader part of the discussion reminds me of a story out of Detroit fairly recently. Not exactly the same thing, but a newsworthy event, anyhow. She picked up a credit card left on the counter at a gas station, and a woman walked in and claimed it was hers, so she handed it to that woman. The police later arrested the first woman for credit card theft. (The story only continues to get better, even after the judge scolded police for the arrest...)

[@AiluropodaPanda]

Somehow I'm left imagining a drug commerical style disclose text splash and a voice over saying, "ask your lawyer if replievining your flivver is right for you."

[@p24t]

Sounds like the "we gave your money/items to the Feds" excuse started in earnest around the 18th.

[@cashstore1]

O. J. went to prison for getting his stuff back. Replevining his Flivver did not work for him. Should have gotten a lawyer.

[@russlehman2070]

I learned a new word to day, albeit not one I expect to use much in ordinary conversation. I already knew what a flivver is, but this is the first I ever heard of "replevin". I also notice that both "flivver" and "replevin" get a red squiggle from the browser's spell check.

[@weirdyoda04]

Based on the title I was convinced this had to do with someone drunk talking about their liver. I guess I was close since it did have to do with alcohol

[@mathewfullerton8577]

Yes, if you feel the flivver might be harmed further while awaiting the decision in your action.

[@BareBeautyBodypainting]

I clicked on the video because I saw and knew immediately what a Flivver was. I worked at Whalom Park, an amusement park in New England that opened in 1893, and they had an old rail car ride called the Flivver and they'd buzz along on an electric rail track. Dangerous little things!

[@DoubleDoubleWithOnions]

1933 Government gives us back our liquor. 1934 Government takes our gold.

[@ElGoogKO]

It all boils down to once concept. What is "the law" and what happens when the law is illegal.

[@josepherhardt164]

Actually, I think I've read a couple of stories that say drinking actually _decreased_ after Prohibition ended, mainly because people really did want to follow the law, and this allowed the states to get back into the booze biz with regulation and taxation.

[@OpenCarryUSMC]

Steve, Oregon statutes still contain Replevin. The section and title are quoted below and in the current (2021) edition of Oregon Revised Statutes as published on line by the legislative assembly. BEGIN QUOTE 72.7160 Buyer’s right to specific performance or replevin END QUOTE

[@cmorris9494]

In Pennsylvania you can be fined for bring alcohol into the state.

[@muskokamike127]

Oddly enough I "knew" what a flivver was but since my memory is shot, I wasn't 100%. "isn't that a term for a beater"? (btw, beater is the 70's term for a flivver) All my buddies and I drove beaters.....

[@GetOffMyyLawn]

The Turbo Encabulator requires you to replevin your flivver at the same time you replace the prefabulated amulite.

[@jameshiggins-thomas9617]

So even in 1921 the police pass off their collected spoils to the Feds...

[@rhondawest6838]

"seize the liquor" sounds like something Mr Lahey would say. "Carpe liquorem, Randy. Seize the liquor!"

[@louisinjoliet8546]

I am surprised the "Uncle Sam has it." line was not looked at further. That seems to be a continued common theme.

[@erictaylor5462]

It is *STILL* illegal to transport liquored if it is untaxed, or transporting it into a dry county. This was the basis for the movie Smokey and the Bandit. Bo Darville's job was to get the attention of police and get them to focus on him and not the truck that had the illegal beer. Bo ended up getting a bit too much attention from a particular cop when he picked up the runaway bride of the cop's son. Much hilarity ensues as Bo outsmarts this cop over and over.

[@rationalbushcraft]

The term flivver needs to come back. Amazing enough the spell check doesn't mark flivver as a misspelled word.

[@EricLopushansky]

A little more refined than "s***box" isn't it?

[@skygh]

I saw the advert for union made rainbow overalls by the Philips Store. A large rambling variety store located near the massive Omaha stockyards and sold about everything, finally closing in 1987. They did not sell flivvers however