roth oil tank fill & vent piping inspection

[@rj.parker]

Steve, perhaps you should contact Roth and have them checkout the issue from your excellent video. Their manual seems to indicate that the common fill tube pressurizes during a delivery and outputs the same rate and flow to each tank through the 1/2" portion of each tee. Roth suggests the fuel oil supply lines are designed to pull oil from both tanks simultaneously to keep the tanks relatively equal. And then the same fuel oil supply lines, when the oil burner's pump is off, siphon from one tank to the other to further equalize volumes. It may come down to cleaning the tanks and maintaining equal levels so that when the delivery stops both tanks are full. Or install two separate fill lines for the delivery driver.

[@MrMattnis1]

Yes you are 100% correct

[@profjohnfrinks]

I'm fairly certain of what is going on here. Just like the special fill and vent expansion kit that you see on these tanks, Roth makes a suction expansion kit. The purpose is so that the appliance fed from these tanks, draws oil from both tanks evenly. The way it is set up here, it is pulling from one tank or at least very unevenly. When the driver comes to deliver, the tanks are supposed to be at the same level. In this case, they are not. They are getting filled at the same rate; however, one fills quicker than the other, because it had more fuel to start.

[@boreduser12]

Hi, i got a new roth tank recently and the oil company delivered oil. They said they could only fill 190 gallons and that the tank is now full. I know that i had 25 gallons in the tank because the installer pumped the oil from the old tank into the new one and it was about 25 gallons. So this means i have 215 gallons, which makes sense because the tank gauge says about 7/8th full. My question is why was the oil company not able to fill more. It is a 275 gallon tank. My old tank after being fueled up went all the way to full on the old gauge. Thank you.

[@wvcaver774]

@@boreduser12 fuel expands as it warms up

[@boreduser12]

@@wvcaver774 thanks for your answer! While this is true, it wouldn't account for 50 gallons of oil. I have had deliveries of 220 gallons before with more oil in the tank than what there was in the above mentioned scenario. My best guess is that it was a supplier issue. Anyhow, i am going to order oil soon from a different supplier to see if i run into the same issue.

[@peterricci1051]

Comparing different gauges and whistle length between your old tank and new tank doesn’t make any sense. If the whistle wasn’t cut before install you will never have completely full tanks after a delivery.

[@Yodumeee]

Vent alarm is set into the tank. You'll never get 275 how far in the vent alarm is set will determine how many gallons get delivered.

[@Thebowzer221]

I had the same fill problem. I separated the tank fills and vents. Each tank (275) then worked perfectly. When you tie 2 vents and 2 fills into 2 tanks, for some reason pain in the ass to fill. One tank. One fill. One vent. Second tank, one fill one vent. Works perfectly now.

[@zjones9876]

I am getting one of these roth tanks installed in 2 weeks. So excited! No more rusty old oil tank. And I got a new furnace as well so looking forward to good heat this winter.

[@brezzz0079]

I agree with your thinking ,but why was there oil on top of that tank ?

[@bradstevenson1750]

steve have you ever had problems with roth tanks sucking air in through the inside the dip tube? even when they are 3/4 full i have on many roth tanks and have to put tiger loops on them to purge air out..

[@atlasfueloilinc.2421]

No I have installed only 1 double Roth tank set up. I piped my supply to the left side and my vent to the right side of the twin connections, not both to the same side. This way you cross fill and vent. The same way you pipe in 2 (hot water coils) to draw evenly from both coils. Also there is a second cross over line behind the suction line not being used. I would think that, that is preventing the equalizing of both tanks in the off cycle but this is my opinion and I would like the find out the answer that solved this problem. Please let me know.

[@tomneutel1611]

If you took the coarse on installing Roth tanks, you would know that they need to be pressure filled…you need a quick connect fitting on the fill pipe outside, and the oil delivery person, would need to unhook there nozzle and hook up the hose directly to the fill pipe. Not sure, but he needs around 15 psi

[@bahopik]

weird one, I guess just another reason to go with natural gas or LP. what Bluetooth you are using? is it nice and loud, does your ear hurt at the end of the day from wearing it? thanks

[@patcupolo9274]

How much tithing and loosening can those rubber seals take on the vent and fill lines?

[@jcpoiuy]

I need some cooking or grilling videos! Love those... I know you are eating healthier but maybe when the weather is nicer in MA you can use that grill again. Thanks for the videos.

[@dandan-qu1ib]

There's a alternative way to solve your problem! Have 2 separate fill ports on the outside of the building. Label tank A and tank B.

[@j.a.7721]

My company been doing that for the past 10 years. To many problems with roth hooked

[@Yodumeee]

Roth's suck. Doubles even more so

[@boreduser12]

Hi, i got a new roth tank recently and the oil company delivered oil l. They said they could only fill 190 gallons and that the tank is now full. I know that i had 25 gallons in the tank because the installer pumped the oil from the old tank into the new one and it was abiut 25 gallons. So this means i have 215 gallons, which makes sense because the tank gauge says 7/8th full. My question is why was the oil company not able to fill more. It is a 275 gallon tank. My old tank after being fueled up went all the way to full on the old gauge. Thank you.

[@neonhomer]

When Steve kept wondering if the first tank was full or not, when he pulled the fill tube out he should have seen it was mostly dry, as compared to the full #2 tank's fully wet fill tube.

[@patcupolo9274]

Should have just one whistle on the second tank?

[@patcupolo9274]

Dealt just a few times before I retired, can’t quite remember the problems, but I know us service me thought they were more trouble then worth it. The company even stopped installing them unless the cust demanded a Roth. I seem to recall the newer steel tanks were coated with substance that helped the corrosion problems. This cust, I would quests, used cod oil, what junk. Good old sludge. Roth were and probably still, are a pain in the ass. You could have solved the problem a lot quiker

[@louiswalters4719]

The problem is the oil line pick with the duplex bushings, didn’t have this problem when Roth first came out with there pick set up you only drew from one tank and in the off cycle it would gravity over. The only way to solve the problem is to have 2 fills, that comes from working in the oil Business for 40 years

[@davidmoulton5422]

you are right about that Steve playing detective the client doesn't always tell you the full truth that's the difference between a service guys in the new construction

[@michaelkatzenbach9478]

I believe the full tank draw tube plugged so it only drawed from the lower tank now the tanks are not even. when the driver fill the tanks he stops when the tone changes. The way Roth has the fill they have to fill evenly. If you look at the dip tube when Steve pulled it out it shows how much sludge was in that tank ( algae witch feeds on water and oil that happens with simi trucks also it’s hard to clear up) they need to filter out the sludge on both tanks then add a fungicide to kill the algae and equalize both tanks

[@michaelkatzenbach9478]

Steve said that the driver filled only a little fuel then it was full that means the tank that was almost full finished filling the tone changed and he stoped. Just listen to Steve when he pulled the dip tube from the first tank it had as Steve called it smag that tells me the draw tube was blocked and all the fuel was drawn from the second tank. So when the driver fill the tank he couldn’t fill the second tank without over filling the first tank. Even if the first tank over filled and the fuel went thru the vent tube to the second tank that fuel would of stoped the whistle and the driver would 🛑 stop fueling. The only hope is to clean those tanks or replace them by and fill with clean fuel!

[@donnierobertson3088]

Nice

[@michaelkatzenbach9478]

What I think happened is the full tank draw tube plugged and the burner drawed all its fuel from the lower tank ..Steve needs to pump everything out of both tanks and refill both tanks equally with filtered oil. Get all that crud out of both tanks. If he doesn’t then the crud will keep rising and plugging the draw tubes

[@RagazzoMafioso]

You can clearly see that the black dot is on 275, but you still say 400 gallons.

[@johnc4876]

The Roth tanks have a fill requirement GPM of 40 to 60. Could the FILL RATE by the oil company be creating a flow condition where the internal orifices in the fill manifold to each tank is not even?

[@Spector_NS5_RD]

i don't like how small of a diameter the fill tubing is where the bottom of the tee's mate with the tanks. maybe the tanker was pumping too great a volume of oil for those little fittings to handle. once one is filled, you're left with only 1 tee (with that small dia. tube, 3/4" maybe?) allowing only a small flow of oil into the tank then........ it back flows, oil guy thinks tank is filled, when it's not. obviously no equalizer line, or it's blocked. that's my best guess. mainly NG and LP around my parts though, so take my guess with a grain of salt.

[@yambo59]

I was wondering the same thing, why such small fill tubes vs. the vent sizes, but im no boiler tank expert either.

[@scottmaresco557]

@@yambo59 THE FILL PIPE HEADER PRESSURIZES WITH THE 1 INCH RESTRICTIONS TO FILL BOTH TANKS EVENLY . I TELL MY OIL COMPANY TO FILL SLOW NO PROBLEMS

[@yambo59]

AH - never too old to learn something, that makes perfect sense even to this layman-lol

[@bradhvac5866]

That was an interesting set up. I don't work on much oil never seen that before. How would the drive know there are 2 tanks? Good job Steve

[@KayShwizzley]

Any first time fill for an oil company they have to do a tank inspection I do them all the time. So what my company does would be to make on a note on the list that they would have twin tanks with a transfer

[@richardlawrence3770]

Steve how can a homeowner protect themself from receiving smag oil ?

[@54tony379]

the fill connection at the top of the tank look small and vent connection at the tank top look big ?

[@michaelkatzenbach9478]

Your right the fill is smaller and the vent is larger they are designed that way to decrease fill pressure on the tank. On any tank the vent should be bigger or the same size as the fill

[@dv3468]

Steve: Isn't the oil company liable for the "Bad Oil" that screwed up the homeowners heating system? Shouldn't they pay to have the oil tanks drained, cleaned and refilled with clean oil, or replaced?

[@profjohnfrinks]

Also, sludge comes from the corrosion of metal tanks due to moisture, roth tanks have a plastic bladder inside, hence no corrosion. The amount of sludge in these tanks suggests he was delivered shit oil or it was transferred from the old tanks. Either way this customer is paying for a lot of unnecessary service calls and parts, especially having spent so much for all this new equipment.

[@jdoyle4811]

Certainly my guess would be they sucked the old tank dry rather than using a capped pipe with drilled inlets being safely above the worse scenario of expected sludge in steel tanks. Agreed, if I was the customer I would be so furious with the original installer of the Roth tanks.

[@michaelkatzenbach9478]

Do they make a filter and water separator for the supply line so you always have filtered oil in your tanks. That looked like some really poor oil that would plug the burner. Are they burning bunker oil.

[@michaelpadovani9566]

You never know until you dig into the potential problem. Curious how often this happens....

[@ranger178]

why do they have such a small pipe for fill on each tank but a large one for vent seems kinda backwards? if the oil company gave him bad fuel, can't they pet a suction tube to bottom of tank and suck out water and sludge?

[@frankviera2737]

That sludge that your dealing with is probably bacterial growth or fungal growth because that is what it looks like. Because the tanks don't draw of the bottom there is probably water build up in the tank that promotes bacterial and fungus growth. Probably need to clean water and sludge from bottom of tanks and and a diesel fuel biocide treatment.

[@Yodumeee]

Yeah. Exasperated by biofuel. Stuff sucks

[@bmkolb]

Wow small fill inlet

[@Brad1237202]

I thought Roth did away with those black plastic nuts on the top of tyhe tank years ago. When I installed my tank they gave me aluminum nuts for the tank. The tank supply house said the oil fill pipes get jogged when they are filling with oil and the plastic nuts crack off spilling the oil all over the basement.

[@Yodumeee]

Wish they did

[@j.a.7721]

Either the driver that delivered stop when it transfer from one to the. The tank makes a weird noise (whistle). He got scared and stopped. Or it's really bad oil

[@MegaGeorge1948]

I love my Tiger loop. My burner seems to run better from my overhead oil line.

[@marcspencer9077]

If the problem persists I think I would go with 2 fills.

[@jameskelley4138]

Just saying No whistle No fill the delivery driver was just doing his job, why would the whistle stop enough to indicate that its completely full shouldn't it be a continuous whistle?

[@bpalmersheim]

That oil "smag" is algae growth. Any reason why the oil suppliers are not using a fuel oil biocide in their fuel?

[@richmac918]

I've seen sludge build up in a tank before but nothing like this. Looks like they are getting their fuel directly from a dinosaurs ass. I think I'd find myself a new oil delivery company

[@jdoyle4811]

Loved that comment about the dinosaur!!

[@richmac918]

@@jdoyle4811 Thanks !

[@ritewayguy]

Did you say the fuel was full of sludge? Is that from years of sludge build up, or did the fuel company sell them a load of sludged oil?

[@thomascoolberth2648]

Tanks were new, bad oil delivery.

[@peterricci1051]

My money goes on the theory that when the old tanks were emptied into new tanks, the sludge from old tank was transferred to the new tanks. I used to scream at my service department whenever they did that. They started new installs with having new tanks filled and piped to boiler or furnace with shut off valve in off position. When old tank ran itself dry, just switch new tanks on. NEVER transfer old tanks oil to newly installed tanks! Ever!

[@zachburke9835]

steve, I had a similar problem with a set of Roth tanks, customer blamed our delivery driver, anyway according to roth, those tanks will equalize through the overhead crossover through a syphon once the burner pulls oil. perhaps one tank being shut off was the problem

[@Novisk58]

That's what I'm thinking. what if your only drawing from one tank. the other one stays full.would the oil company be responsible for that sludge. as a homeowner I think I'd want to have a discussion with the oil company. This is why staying with one fuel company probably makes great sense.

[@michaelkatzenbach9478]

@@Novisk58if I was Steve I would suck all the oil out of both tanks clear to the bottom the filter the oil back into both tank equal. If the driver comes back to fill then your over filling the full tank because with the smaller fill they should fill equal.

[@eastrockaway11518]

Answer me this, how is the oil being lifted out of the tank? Does the Burn have enough lift?

[@STONEDay]

He said the tiger loop has 15in vacuum.

[@michaelkatzenbach9478]

Why is their oil on top of the tank should be a sealed system. Ether someone has had the fittings apart or their are bad seals. Why can’t someone put a pipe down to the bottom of each tank and use a large potable filter. And filter out that crud off the bottom.

[@patcupolo9274]

But how did he know which whistle it was, he did the correct thing, enter safe than sued!

[@atlasfueloilinc.2421]

He did not stop filling prematurely., he stopped filling when the whistle stopped. The installation is the problem and the return not being used should be removed. Again my professional opinion based many years of service. But I may be totally wrong and would like to find out the answer. Thanks Eric

[@michaelkatzenbach9478]

He may have stopped filling when the one tank filled the whistle stopped on that tank the whistle pitch changed they thought the tank was getting full and they stopped filling. My thought is one of the burner lines in the full tank got sludge and it drew more from the empty tank that’s my guess

[@oldtimehomestead1554]

Oil guy probably was in a hurry did not want to take the time to get both tanks filled. Cannot go fast filling 2 tanks.

[@howfdupare_you1529]

Its pipied incorrectly. Fill pipe should enter first tank, come up to an overflow pipe to enter the second tank. Only the second tank should have a vent with an alarm. You should also have a pipe at bottom, usually fuel line to balance the levels. We force our customers to have tanks installed correctly or we will correct it for a charge

[@peterricci1051]

You are correct in a normal situation. Roth believes they have created a "new" fill method. There isn't a way to install a balancing line on the bottom of these tanks.

[@michaelkatzenbach9478]

What your talking about is two steel tanks that are connected were the fill goes in one tank and the vent is in the second tank. With that setup any moisture is in the first tank and can rust that tank faster and more prone to leak later in life because you’ve pressurized the first tank to get it to flow to the second tank. If you use a Granby tank they are raising their price a lot and their wields aren’t looking the best

[@kevinkellner9200]

ya think the bigger tee's would be on the supply?

[@pamwerner2708]

exactly my thoughts, just switch scully on the outside to the other pipe maybe!!

[@jasonperkins5421]

My understanding is that the smaller orifices in the "supply" or fill side of the piping is what is supposed to equalize pressure across the run, in order to hopefully fill both tanks at the same rate, reducing the need for the vent to carry oil across. The idea behind the larger tee on the vent side is so that you don't create an actual "pressure" situation in the tank, only in the fill or "supply" side piping. I am a licensed technician, but Roth tanks aren't very common in my location unfortunately, so my knowledge is based upon what I've come across.

[@zacmetalfan]

@@jasonperkins5421 you're correct

[@peterricci1051]

@@jasonperkins5421 The vent CAN NOT carry oil across!

[@jasonperkins5421]

@@peterricci1051 yes, that is essentially what my comment was trying to say. The idea is to have a larger vent than fill here so that the back pressure created on the fill equally fills both tanks, while leaving the vent open to atmosphere and proper venting. I never said that oil should be carried in the vent at any time. I'm not sure how you thought I said anything different. Even in a steel tank scenario, the vent shouldn't be used to carry oil, in which case most people just use a cross over with a fill in one tank and vent in the other, or two separate fill pipes. Again not sure why you're insinuating that I ever said the vent should have oil? Hope this clarifies.

[@mikecarter4922]

maybe new oil guy did the owner tell him they were two tanks ?

[@saywhatnowcomon3426]

I don't like those tees there using I would have ran black pipe 2" when I do double steel tanks I use 2" for fill and vent it's the only way to equalize properly I have always seen problems when using 11/4 to tie two tanks together 11/4 works fine for a single tank and I like to use 1/2 black pipe to tie fule lines together then come off of that 3/8 oil line that's what I do for steel tanks anyway I never tied two Roth tanks together before like that

[@randykocian4738]

Maybe pitch the first tank's whistle. Since it's always going to fill first, let the second tank whistle, only. Both tanks have gauges so you'll know when they are full. Hope this helped. Pretty cool setup.

[@erikj.2066]

Problem is the oil delivery guy typically isn't going in the house when he makes his delivery, so he doesn't know what the gauges are reading before/after fill up. He's just going to listen for the whistle until it completely stops. Probably just best to let the oil company know to tell the driver that there are two whistles, and wait for both of them to stop.

[@brodibro662]

Vent and fill are not the right size

[@aircooledtx]

Interesting video, as I have never worked on oil tanks..Seems like oil fill guy, stopped before both were full.

[@ThePhotographyHobbyist]

7:00 Where is all that crap coming from? Surely fuel just sitting in the tank won't get that way on its own?

[@michaelkatzenbach9478]

I know from being a truck driver if water gets into your tank algae will grow even in diesel oil tanks on trucks it will grow and plug your filters and you play heck getting it cleaned out ( that’s the black sludge in your filter) you get water from condensation of your fill and vent lines on the out side of your home.

[@andrewamador2214]

Never liked Roth tanks. Had lots of problems with odors with them, especially inside tanks. Had odor calls after every fill up. Those plastic fittings gave us (oil service techs) problems. Seldom saw a Roth tank without oil puddled on top. Poor engineering with their choice of materials, in my opinion.

[@philiphorner31]

Should lock those caps.

[@jeffreyrichardson]

I can tell you have your license.

[@FredD63]

Strange how the intake port is 4-5 smaller than the vent side. That is a lot of sludge the oil company should be liable for selling garbage fuel oil

[@Mickymaxywonder]

I didn't know you can get sued for doing your job crazy law

[@thomascoolberth2648]

Leave connections loose, cause a spill, you get sued.

[@stevenross7399]

Problem is driver didn't fill tanks fast enough. Roth with expansion kit needs to be filled 40-85 gpm. The manifold gets pressurized and each tee meters oil to tanks. U need to pump full tank over and get levels close to same. When oil driver fills tanks he has to fast fill them. Read Roth installation instructions it tells you in the instructions.

[@peterricci1051]

I have been delivering heating oil for 33 years.This has nothing to do with driver error. With the Roth tanks, both tanks are suppose to get filled equally at the same time. Once one tank has filled, and that whistle has stopped, you CANNOT continue to pump oil! First of all, the driver doesn't have the luxury of seeing the tanks as they fill! Secondly, There isn't any safeguard to STOP the flow of oil to the full tank while you continue to fill the other tank that wasn't filled! So, all of you Einsteins, the driver doesn't have any choice but to walk away! My suggestion is.....if you are going to go with the Roth tank......only get one! Their system of filling both tanks at the same time is flawed. Yes....I've seen them work properly. But more times than not, you have to have two people there to fill them. One person inside and one person outside. Total waste of time. And you still can't get that second tank to full! When you have a normal, double steel tank install, you pipe it to fill ONE tank first. That tank then becomes a pressure vessel. When first tank is full, it then PUSHES oil into second tank. First tank cannot have any gauges installed on it. { I have seen plumbers do this}. Whistle is on the second tank. When second tank is full, whistle stops! End of story. No muss no fuss. Save yourself a lot of grief, if putting 2 Roths in your basement, put 2 separate fill pipes!

[@jdoyle4811]

@@peterricci1051 You should place this response as your own response as your experience trumps people guessing. I delivered some oil when I was a kid and did a little work as licensed oil tech to earn a few bucks but that was decades ago, your long term experience is invaluable

[@kosta7747]

Steve never comments anymore :(

[@Mickymaxywonder]

I know eh wats all that about it kinda sad miss keeping in touch I'm huge fan he must be really busy or just isn't in form for chit chat

[@kosta7747]

True that

[@bryan1282]

Aaaaaaaa Steve got dirty!! Need to start wearing blue disposable latex coveralls

[@Liberallez]

What's the scientific definition of "schmag"?😆

[@williamGSXR110]

I think the fill and vent lines are swapped. The diameter of the fill line going into the tank is a quarter of the diameter of the pipe that feeds it.

[@jdoyle4811]

Remember the fill pipe is closest to the boiler (on the left side). The fill and vent lines are probably installed. Of course later after your comment, Nicholas stated that Roth makes a special expansion suction kit which allow the both tanks to pull oil simultaneously to the boiler. Seems possibly the kit was not installed on this double tank installation.

[@michaelkatzenbach9478]

If the fill and vent was switched the whistle wouldn’t work and the driver should stop if they don’t hear the wistle

[@VOICEFORFREEDOM1776]

Why do you wear gloves? Lol

[@scottmpreston]

The tanks need to be connected with a pipe at the bottom to equalize. That whole setup is wrong.

[@profjohnfrinks]

That defeats the purpose of a Roth tank, there are no ports on the bottom, all ports are on the top.

[@reecenewton3097]

@@profjohnfrinks That's true, but Scott has a point; the ONLY way to get the tanks to equalize every time is by using Mother Nature, gravity, and bottom connections. Works every time. Roth doesn't build them that way to avoid leaks, but then you have this highly annoying nit-picky problem.

[@profjohnfrinks]

@@reecenewton3097 I've never had a problem twinning OR TRIPPLING roth tanks... the trick is reading and following instructions... tanks fill and draw even, every time...

[@j.a.7721]

That's what happened when you shop around for cheap oil

[@frankdinaro3220]

I bet the driver heard the whistle and stopped .

[@ericrivera219]

The gauges fail and will give false reading

[@Yodumeee]

Tanks aren't equalizing and common fill that's the problem.